Our long time colleague Klaus from Photozone tested the 50mm Sigma ART lens (FF Canon mount version). And he says it’s:
better than all the other 50mm lenses that we have tested to date. The new (untested) Zeiss Otus 55mm f/1.4 may still be better, especially regarding bokeh fringing, but it’s a manual focus lens and in terms of size, weight and astronomical price tag it just cannot be everybody’s darling anyway.
This is really a must have lens for all A-mount camera owners! Just like the 55mm FE Zeiss is a must have for E-mount guys!
The A-mount lens can be preordered in USA Amazon (Click here) at BHphoto (Click here) and Adorama (Click here). And in Europe at WexUK (Click here) and WexDe (Click here).
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1st blood! and good lens ^^
bokeh a bit dissappointing, but overall perfomance is very promising
I would still like to see a definitive no-nonsense three-way shoot out between this lens, the Otus and the Sony Zeiss SSM before parting with the ‘hard-earned’!
We did something pretty close, although using 3 different camera bodies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozj-QpG_OdY&feature=share&list=UUL5Hf6_JIzb3HpiJQGqs8cQ&index=6
Great, many thanks for that.
Only looking at image quality, it’s extremely difficult to pick the better one of these two (otus vs art). On my full spectrum a7r, the differences show a bit more but even then they’re very little… the sigma shows better CA correction but the Otus has a slight edge in sharpness at the widest apertures. But unless you’re shooting landscapes at f/1.4, you’re not going to see it.
The 55/1.8 is no match in full spectrum to either… it’s a total dog in this case.
how can the worlds sharpest AF 50mm lens be a total dog? LOL
It’s possible that it’s corrected at a narrower spectrum range, so the mod reveals how scattered UV/near UV, IR/near IR register on the sensor uncorrected by the lens.
I remember reading comments about how some old Contax lenses behave very well even when focusing UV and IR (unnecessary unless specifically stated), I guess it just shows how much work is actually put into a lens’ design.
You can’t see uv… it’s hard to see even if you try with a uv filter. The culprit’s IR.
So UV filters really have no use at all on digital? Except as a protector.
None of the NEX, Alpha, A7, etc allow any UV to reach the sensor. In case of the Sony/Zeiss lenses not even IR passes through them (that is the whole point of geno’s post). Use a lens hood for “protection. 😉
Ha, I always use both, if there’s nothing in front of the lens, dust tends to stick, and that kind of dust can’t be blown off, so I simply let it stick on to a filter and clean the filter. Modern coatings could be cleaned without leaving any marks, can’t say the same for 20 or even 50 year old coatings.
Absolutely… UV transmission is around 12-13 stops less than visible light with a lens that transmits a reasonable amount of UV (typical lenses are worse). So, the UV is too dark to see when exposed normally. You might see a difference with and without a uv cut filter if you light the scene only with a proper UV light.
And of course, even the best filters (B+W, Heliopan, etc.) add extra lens flares/ghosts given the right condition.
Look up what full spectrum means.
Have you posted the results of your tests anywhere on the net? I would be interested to see them. I see over at the lens rental blog they are doing a lot of interesting tests on how the sensor glass affects the performance of a lens. With that in mind and since you have modified your sensor glass, I wonder if the otus and the sigma art you tested where both for either a nikon or canon mount or one of each? Even do you think your modification will have affected a lens like the FE 55 or are you confident your sensor glass is still the same size?
It isn’t the size of the sensor toppings if I understand it correctly but rather the transmission of the lens in question. Very poor IR transmission, in particular.
Vivek, I know you have a converted a NEX 3 as well. Over at lens rental they show the mtf values changing depending on the thickness of the sensor glass. I assume that by taking out the ir layer it will have a similar effect but also probably a minor effect. Do I have it all wrong?
Any glass on the sensor affects the MTF (adversely), this was the reason why Leica put in the thinnest possible cover glass/IR cut filter on the M8 sensor. All Sony sensors have a cover glass (~1mm for NEX APS-c that I have measured) plus the AA/UV/IR (Again ~1mm for most NEX). They do affect the MTF but the effect is less for smaller pixels. In case of the A7R, the UV/IR cut filter is not a single piece of glass but is a composite with two layers of thin glass epoxied together (to withstand that industrial strength shutter clap, I suppose). That (epoxy composite) does affect the MTF more severely than any glass of the same thickness. It is a calculated compromise.
So, yes, extra glass affects the performance but when you go into the details it is a bit more complex.
No IR “layer” here. It’s the whole sandwich that is replaced.
These two i tested were made for SLRs (Nikon), and the thickness/RI of the sensor glass plays a lesser role. However, the thickness is matched to the original thickness (professionally converted) so I see no reason why it should make things worse for the FE55. Popping a IR cut filter on makes these lenses behave as good as stock.
I’ve also tried a canon mount sigma 50 art and there was no difference I could tell.
Thanks.
Not sure what tests you have made or seen, but from what is available you seem to be entirely wrong about the FE55.
Ah, you are talking about a full spectrum mod. My bad, read too quickly.
I don’t know if you’ve actually used the Otus, but all this talk about the Sigma being in the same league are just hyperbole. The Otus is way, way better in terms of basically everything. It’s not just pixel peeping either, but a definite, noticeable image quality difference that any layman could pick out. That’s taking nothing from the Sigma, but after I’ve seen the results, I think anybody who claims the quality is comparable probably hasn’t really done the tests.
Yes… I’ve used them both side by side on my modified a7r. How else would I know?
See all lenses and bodies I own or have used:
http://www.flickr.com/people/genotypewriter/
How does the mod affect colors? Do you get better colors or worse? Since UV manufacturers claim that the filter reduces “haze”…supposedly letting in more UV would reduce saturation and contrast?
What about IR?
Colours are less accurate. especially trees.
UV is a non issue.
IR is like IR from any other converted camera.
What do you use the mod for? Since it’s unlikely anybody would actually be taking photos with the extra spectrum included.
I actually use it (like several others) to photograph in Infrared and Ultraviolet. There are specific applications for Ultraviolet photography. Most of Infrared (infinity shots) are done mostly for artistic purposes. The basic intent of photography applies to all of them which is art (and not plain documentary).
Ordinary digital is too easy and boring… I need a better challenge. .. so I do things ppl don’t always do… full spectrum is one:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/genotypewriter/tags/fullspectrum/
So you do it for the challenge… Then wet plate with pinhole is most suitable for you?lol
Canonwatch just posted a patent for a new 5 layer Canon sensor..with rgb plus uv and ir layers.
Previous rumors are for a revolutionary sensor in September that is not like Foveon.
This could certainly be it.
how is this related to this Sigma lens Barry? Just post it to the admin, he can decide if it’s worth a rumor.
Its current and there is no relevent place to post it as there are no current sensor related topics.
I chose to share this news while it is new rather than waiting for a more appropriate topic that may not come up for a while. Usually sensor related topics are not posted till Monday.
It is not a rumor: http://www.canonwatch.com/canon-patent-5-layer-foveon-like-sensor/
Also the Sigma news is not a rumor.
Seems a bit late to apply for a patent if they are releasing it in September.
Patent was applied for in 2014.
Canon also has a previous patent for a 3 layer sensor.
Since the 3 layer patent would probably also cover thier new 5 layer..this patent is basically a way to keep thier existing patent in force longer by pattenting a modification to an existing patent.
Pharmaceutical companies are notorious for using this method to delay generic drug releases. Typically they will patent minor modifications or new delivery systems.
Ah, I see. I didn’t check the date.
Do not…DO NOT…comment on patent law, or how it applies to/is used by pharma in particular.
Readers please ignore this guy’s uninformed hyperbole.
You know it would help if you actually gave some explanation to your point instead of only dismissing his.
I have given him rope to see what he will do with it.
We do not know that he is what he claims to be…
He might be a 16 year old prodigy bored with just being a research phsycologist and teaching at a prominent university….so became a patent attorney…I wonder if his mom Wendy would be proud if she knew he was on her computer again.
The dismissal alone is of benefit to you. As for a discussion of my profession, patent law, and IP practice in pharma, there are plenty of web sources for the non-professional to begin to understand the basics–however, the “basics” are shifting all the time due to evolving case law, and require a real grounding in law: a law degree, or its equivalent. For an actual, comprehensive, and nuanced understanding, you must practice, which it is abundantly clear that the poster does not.
For your own benefit, ignore his hyperbole and turn to better readily-available sources, such as pretty much any patent blog (where you might also do well to ignore the comments section, depending on the blog).
Typical word salad. No meat.
The “meat” is to ignore this guy’s pontifications on patent law and practice.
Take it or leave it.
Since we already have peoples attention it is rather difficult to get them to ignore the subject.
Since I am uninformed and you are a Registered Patent Attorney perhaps you can tell us something about the subject so we can be better informed.
Approved patent does absolutely no good, if proof of concept has huge problems. Its entirely possible that they were not able to iron out noise issues between proof of concept and production prototype. We don’t know that.
We will know if Canon will release a sensor and Sony will dump one right after. Or alternatively if Sony is the first one to release it.
A patent can be filed and approved, but it doesn’t mean that the company will start mass production right away. There is substantial R&D that goes into any technology prior to it being available on the market.
Comment on something you’re actually good at – photography, and leave software and hardware technology to those of us, who are actually engineers.
The more I look at this 5 layer sensor the less likely it seems this will be the next Canon sensor.
Any difficulties associated with a 3 layer sensor will be even greater with 5 layers…plus 5 colors would require a whole new color theory and appropriate software and or hardware to deal with it.
It is very difficult to desighn a 3 color apochromatic lens…I cant even imagine how difficult a 5 color apochromatic…if that is the correct word even..would be.
Sony has filed patent for layered sensors quite some time ago also. If they can overcome the Foveon noise issues, it could be on the market at least in FF cameras to begin with!
Sony has had this sensor available for a very long time but has kept us waiting for it because the competition has not forced them to release it.
Part of me wants to see Canon kick Sony’s butt because they deserve it.
Since I am currently waiting for my tamron 150-600 and for a high resolution camera to put it on I am keeping a close watch on Canon with the option of switching.
If I totally miss having any new equipment this season again because of Sony I certainly will not be inclined to be loyal to them.
Stop flying somewhere in the clouds and look at things objectively. You don’t know why they haven’t released it yet. Its quite possible that noise is a major problem.
Technically great but I doubt this lens will practically be more useful than a less sharp 50mm with better bokeh.
My thoughts too – at f1.4 bokeh is more important to me than critical sharpness and samples I’ve seen from the Sigma look a bit nervous and jittery and distract from the subject
I’ve bought the Zeiss 50mm as bokeh is more important to me also.
me2
Same here and the CZ has quick and accurate AF in a more compact body.
Bokeh on the zeiss is rediculous. Worth the 1500 and I don’t mind trading down for those who think I might be trying to justify purchase. My money goes to what I see gives me the performance I demand. The CZ 50mm is absolutely exceptional in all regards…not just sharpness.
Precisely. Sharpness in the new ISO it seems.
Dull color and nervous bokeh. The CZ is a far better choice for A-Mount users.
dull colours? interesting conclusion. dont you think that depends on the settings – looks like they shoot in ‘neutral’ mode. furthermore the lighting is very important.
It better be, for the huge price difference!
I’ve used the Zeiss is a very nice lens, its fast but the real difference in image quality isn’t enough to justify the $1100 CDN/USD upgrade cost. With that kind of cash I’d could easily buy a A77II, or put the money towards buying a A99, which represents a greater value.
I understand it’s not in everyones budget. If I only needed a 50 for purely recreational purposes it’s very likely the Sigma would win out. But since I bought this lens for business to do mostly portraiture the fast/accurate AF, compact size, pleasing bokeh, beautiful contrast, nice color and a near identical look to other Sony CZ primes made it a no brainer to me. In the course of me owning this lens, the price difference will be a marginal concern.
I actually got a chance to try the Sigma it was really sharp wide open with some harsh bokeh. It’s also a very large lens and noticeably well made. Kind of reminded of the Leica 50/2 Summicron but with less contrast and a more dull color.
I judge the quality of a lens by looking at how pleasing it renders the images rather than referring to the test charts, that’s why I’m still waiting patiently for the Zeiss 35mm f1.4 to complete my lenses for portrait.
Its not about finances it about price versus overall performance. If your deciding between a Sony/Zeiss, and a Sigma its a relatively easy choice. The Zeiss is 100% compatible with Sony’s lens correction system, and newer auto-focus features. The Sony/Zeiss is weather-sealed, and built like a tank. Its designed to last. Sigma lenses generally fall apart after a couple of years (or usually just after their warranties expire). The Zeiss lens will have significantly higher resale than the Sigma.
However for those of us who own the SAL50F14 I don’t recommend upgrading to either. Neither lenses performance justifies the outlay of $1100.00 for an upgrade for current SAL50F14 owners. The current Sony 50mm f/1.4 IQ is more than capable of producing professional results.
The best choice is the SAL50F14. I own one and its an excellent performer. In 95% of all shooting scenarios the SAL50F14 will be more than up to the task. The upgrade to the either model is between $700.00, and $1100.00 CDN/USD.
It makes more sense in investing in lenses with focal lengths, or capabilities that you don’t already own/posses. I recommend buying the SAL16F28 (fish eye), or SAL135F28 (STF) instead of dropping a boat load of cash upgrading a lens (with only a marginal increase in performance in real world conditions).
Or better yet save the money and take an exotic vacation √.
Or, save the money and rent an exotic hooker.
Sorry, couldn’t resist 🙂
LMAO………
Has Photozone ever awarded more than 4 stars for a lens in the “optical quality” rating?
He said one time in the forum, that for five stars the lens needs to be near perfect from technical point of view.
A lot of high end lenses earned a 4,5 stars, like the Sony 135ZA, Canon 70200M2, Nikon 200/2. So far I only know the Canon TS-E 24/3,5 that earned the 5 stars.
Also 4.5 stars got the legendary
Voigtlander APO-Lanthar 125mm f/2.5, thats no longer manufactured
Pentax SMC-FA 31mm f/1.8 AL LIMITED
Yes, makro-planar 100mm, for example. But the star rating is really not the information that should be trusted.
No, it’s only 4,5 Stars. 🙂
Agree. Klaus once said, that even a technical 3 Star can be a 5 Star under field conditions depending on ones core point.
OP asked for a “more than 4 stars” rating 🙂
Beautiful lens but a bit sterile. The Zeiss 50mm has better bokeh and color despite softness wide open. You pick what you value. Either is a great choice, but all this talk about sharpness leaves out a lot of notable qualities of a good lens.
The Zeiss is not soft wide open.
A bit of redirection in topics, but I see where DPReview has gotten around to review the Tamron 150-600mm. They are pretty impressed with it.
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/tamron-150-600-5-6p3
Unfortunately, Tamron as expected is dragging their feet coming out with an a-mount version of it.
I have preordered mine in sony mount a long time ago.
I have also been hoping for a much much longer time for sony to release a really high res sensor..which they appear to have been sitting on for years just because the competition has not forced thier hand.
If Cannons new sensor is better and available sooner I am seriously considering switching to the Cannon and changing my Sony mount preorder to Canon.
reading too much rumors about technical evolution is misleading because in reality things go much slower!
Sigma has been producing a number of optically high quality lenses of late. However, notice that this test was for the Canon version! Who knows when the lens will be available for A mount,, which is obviously low priority for Sigma! That’s a red flag for A mount users (you should question their commitment to the A mount). Sigma has yet to prove that they can build an A mount lens with fast and accurate AF, comparable with an A mount SSM or otherwise from Sony. For me, the ZA 50mm f1.4 is easily a better choice for A mount! Of course that absolutely depends on your photographic needs and tastes (and budget). And btw, the ZA 50mm is NOT soft wide open as mentioned by someone there, even if the Sigma does proves to be sharper!
Sony’s and Pentax versions normally come after the Canon/Nikon launch. The delay is normally up to eight months. This has been the case since the Minolta era. However I wouldn’t buy the Sigma, because I really prefer the compactness of Sony’s original model.
I had a chance to play with this lens on Canon 5Dm3, and to compare it to the Otus and my Zeiss 50mm f/1.4 using my a99. My friend Matt Granger made a video of our tests. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozj-QpG_OdY&feature=share&list=UUL5Hf6_JIzb3HpiJQGqs8cQ&index=6
Basically, the Otus lives up to its billing and price as being far and away superior, and the Sigma and Sony Zeiss are pretty close in sharpness, with perhaps a slight edge to the Sigma. Problem is the Sigma focuses a lot slower than the Sony and is heavier. I also prefer the color-cast in the Sony Zeiss. For the money, the Sigma is a hell of a lens though.
The Sony Zeiss ZA 50mmm beats the Sigma 50mm in terms of functionality, lightness, AF speed and compatibility. In terms of optical performance it is on par with the Sigma, only more CA wide opened is a drawback (which is correctable in postprocessing). It also offers a focus stop button on the lens which is very welcome. Additionally you get AF-D functionality with the A-99 or A-77 II bodies.
No way I ever would consider to go for the Sigma curl weight!