A trusted source said that even with a possible future new A99II or A58II camera release the A99 and A58 will remain for sale for this year. I have yet no reliable info about the new A-mount cameras that will be announced at Photokina but it’s sure these will use brand new autofocusing systems while the FF A-mount camera sensor may be the same used by the current A7r.
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0 Responses
It’s OK for me, as long they don’t delay the A88! …but the price should drop to 1500 € then.
Naw, they’ll just toss in 2 buggy flashes with every sale. ;^)
It’s seem to be ppl are so disappointed with the Sony A mount in the FF camera, what are they talking about 3k,4k video is the wast of time and resources. Do you have a 4k TV? And programmes to play No.
Asking ‘do you have a 4k tv’ is like asking if you have a billboard to hang your 24MP photos on. You capture more detail, you can crop, pan, post-process to remove shake and rolling shutter effect…. 4k rocks for 1080p production.
We don’t shoot 4K to watch it today, but we shoot with 4K because we don’t want these videos to be medieval 2 years later. Hope you understand.
I still want to believe!
A88 is infinitely delayed. Cause it’s a rumor the Sony community made up.
I want an a7r mk2.
It will be here sooner than you think.
‘sooner’ is a very elastic term.
a7r is not even one year old…
Maybe PGi logically thinks it will be out in the fall of 2016, but Vivek suspects it will come out in the spring of 2016, a half year sooner.
I suspect no exciting news at this Photokina…. It will be 2015 before Sony go all-in to the 4K market. Their DSLRs will stagnate (see A77ii, least exciting ‘high end’ product update ever), and all the fun stuff like th RX100iii and A7s is out already.
Photokina will see some compact cameras, maybe a QX100 mk2.That is all.
“least exciting ‘high end’ product update ever”
d810 is a stronger contender
I thought that until I saw a Camera Store review of the D810. Like the a77II, it isn’t a compelling upgrade for anyone owning the previous model but it does bring some nice improvements to the mix.
yeah and it has still better iq than the a77II for sure….even the old model d800e….so no nikon bashing no sony …..be objective/honest!
It’s a high re,s full frame model (more than double the price) it better have superior IQ – Very different usages.
And the a7r has better iq than the d7100
The A77II “is” a real upgrade from the A77, just use one FFS!! Stop reading “reviews” !! And stop spreading bullsh!t !!
Using one wont suddenly mean it has full-sensor video capture to a decent XAVC codec, let alone 4k. So, no need thanks. Srsly, if I just want to take nice pictures my A700 works fine thanks.
A77II is not a video camera and was not advertised as one. Go for A7s or AX100 for video.
Ummm… Except for all the advertising about it’s video credentials. But it’s stuck in 2009.
Not putting the XAVC codec in the a77-2 (but putting in the rx100-3) is a bit of a slap to the face.
Apart from AF points and AF performance I too thought that the A77II wasn’t a compelling upgrade to the A77. After using the A77II for a couples of months my view is changing somewhat, the
The A77II feels better and better each and every day, which suprised me somewhat. I upgraded from the A77 mostly for the better EVF, better JPEG enging and larger buffer. Those criteria was well met by the new camera, but there are many other improvements here and there which makes the A77II a very worthwhile upgrade. It takes a few days, or even weeks to discover this. After that, there is no regrets. The A77II is a gem!
No sense reinventing the wheel when you’re starting with a good product.
I read somewhere that this photokina for sony is mostly going to be about the lenses.
“I read somewhere”
It was on one of the many photography forums out there and I don’t think I could find it if I tried now as it was a little while ago.
“see A77ii, least exciting ‘high end’ product update ever”
Use one for a while. It kicks the cr@p out of my A77.
Yep, looks the same but behaves differently in many ways, but you need to have it in your hands and use it to appreciate the improvements. Just reading specification on a web page is not enough. Anyways, my A77II is a gem.
Then there’s the exciting world of the a5100 and a3500. ;^)
The a7x’s are exciting because it’s a new category. How revolutionary will the a7m2 and a7Rm2 be or will Sony simply fix all the stuff people constantly whine about? The a6000 was only exciting because Sony compact AF sucked so bad in the past people were happy to see them catch up with DSLRs. The a77 was mature enough making the same sort of AF tweaks they did on the a6000 nice but hardly revolutionary.
Was I upset Sony didn’t do something more, different with the a77II? You bet. Do I wish the a-mounts weren’t 2nd fiddle to the e-mounts and simply picking up their tech transfer a year or so later? You bet.
Bottom line I doubt Photokina will be any duller than CES where Sony featured the already released a7R and a doggy cam. ;^)
If Sony does the boringly obvious and improves the AF speed and coverage of the a99 plus stuffs their 36MP sensor into it it’ll be good enough. Exciting? No but if the price isn’t ridiculous I’ll probably buy one. Even after they inevitably dump GPS I really like in favor of Wi-Fi.
Fixing the a7r makes sense, giving how popular it’s become… Still, they need to deal with the usual lens selection issue (maybe we need to draw then a picture).
All eyes will be on Canon and Sigma at this show.
By all, you mean your eyes.
Canons new sensor will change the game for everyone ..whether you use Canon or not because everyone will have to compete with it.
I use Canon gear Monday through Friday. Since they have 90% market share all of their announcements are important to the photo world. Sigma…not so much. We know you are waiting on the two of them, but not all eyes will be watching.
All of my eyes will be watching
Keep em peeled Barry. Observe and report!
Canon and Sigma?
How does that make sense?
I think everyone will be completely ignoring Canon, and Sigma will not get any more attention than it ever gets. They’re not displaying anything groundbreaking then.
Cannon is expected to release the next generation stacked sensor and it might be mirrorless.
Sigma is expected to release some important new lenses ..and mayby even a new 300-600 to compete with Tamron.
> The a77 was mature enough making the same sort of AF tweaks they did on the a6000 nice but hardly revolutionary.
Was I upset Sony didn’t do something more, different with the a77II? You bet. <
You really haven't use one I see 😉
The A-Mount is a mature platform. Sony’s going to probably stick with the incremental upgrade cycle for the near term. You’ll probably see all of the Zeiss lenses get SSM, nano-coatings and weather-sealing over the next 18 months.
It makes more sense to correct the blaring deficiencies of the current A99 in order to silence the pundits. So a 36mp, new AF system, and all very important.
The A99 deficiencies ultimately forced Sony to upgrade/revise it 24 months early. The AF system’s coverage was poor, and the 24mp sensor choice just didn’t make sense. The entire world knew Sony produced a world class 36mp sensor, and I think we were all shocked when it wasn’t included.
It takes three years to design a new camera from the ground up. I suspect the true A99 replacement is still in its early stages of development.
What I do believe is the A99II will finally be the camera I was hoping for, and I will immediately buy it at launch, and sell my original model. However I’ll still hang onto my A850 for my back-up.
The sensor is not a blaring deficiency. It’s been a great sensor that has served the rx1, a7, d 600 and other cameras very well. It has possibly been the most successful large sensor Sony has ever produced.
I agree that the AF system is the biggest deficiency. At nearly 3k in price, recycling an aps-c module was lame. The speed is good enough, but the coverage area is absolutely woeful (about 1/9 of the frame). Beyond that, the buffer and processor are underpowered. The camera should have been capable of 14-bit raw in all modes not just single frame mode.
We all know also that the firmware / menu system needs better options (separating drive mode from timer, making wi-Fi transmitting through protecting photos simpler, no way to choose where to save video to in dual card sort mode, etc).
The a99 is a very good camera, it could have been great with a few hardware / software tweaks but the sensor itself continues to show it is more than capable.
Except that when the A99 was released there was no 36MP sensor that could support EFCS, nor OS PDAF (which the A99 needed to offset the inadequate A77 AF system they had available at the time). The buffer and processors they had also would have buckled under the load of 36MP – Now they have developed new AF modules and EFCS and new processors there is no reason not to have the new 36MP in the A99 II. Plus they have been further developing IBIS to offer stabilised LV etc. A99 II should be one hell of an upgrade, but the 24MP in the A99 definitely made sense at the time (and let’s not forget the shouting from users back then ‘we don’t want more MP’, which seems to be going in the opposite direction these days).
To say the a6000 is “only exciting because Sony compact AF sucked so bad in the past people were happy to see them catch up with DSLRs” Is so ignorant of that camera. By DX0 mark the a6000 sensor is beating last generations FF (like canon 5dmarkII) in every category except for low light performance where the difference is within 5%. Add in the blistering 11fps and revolutionary AF, small form factor, and “grab your face” autofocus that also tracks moving subjects and you have 90% of the D4s /5dmarkIII for a small portion of the price. And an a99 with improved AF and the 36MP sensor (stabalized) is hardly boring. More like evolutionarly excellent. Taking one of the best performing sensors in teh world and packing it into a body that has stabalization, great frame rates, excellent AF and built in stabalization and calling boring just shows your expecations are unrealistic and totally out of line with what most professional photographers want.
36mp is a big deal. A new super fast AF system very is a big deal.
Sony’s A-Mount has hardly been stagnating. They’ve been updating their key G-Series Lenses over the last 18 months, and will likely be upgrading the important Zeiss Lenses shortly with weather sealing, and SSM.
It might not be sexy but it should be noted that Sony is very committed to the platform, and their rapid upgrading of their G-Series lenses over the last 18 months went un-noticed until they over charged for the 70-200G2
The A77II, and A99II and may not come equipped with 4K, but will anyone care, not likely. Nikon dropped 4K from its unexciting D810 upgrade, and no one complained, probably because its a niche feature used by less than 1% of potential customers.
Cause the rest of us are into taking photos.
4k is still inaccessible for most people – the screens are still niche and the processing demands for editing are pretty hefty…
I don’t need 4k, and I don’t mind A99 ii have no video function.
Sony will try their best to put 4k in their product, because they want to sell their 4k tv.
Agree – the A77 and A77II are COMPLETELY different machines. To be
honest, I’m not sure how Sony could have made the A77II any more
exciting. I dont use my A77 or A99 anymore – the A77II is that good.
Obviously, the OP has never used the A77II and doesnt understand what it is.
I think that award goes to the D610 and D810 updates 😛 A77 II is a FAR bigger update than either of those, hell it’s as big an update of 5D MkII to MkIII if not more so. All this constant whining about the A77 II stems solely from the rapid rate of innovation in the mirrorless space, mostly due to needing to catch up with DSLRs. We see such big improvements from companies like Fuji (X-T1) because the previous products were so woefully bad, it makes the A77 II update seem so minor.
This could possibly indicate that Sony will need to release something actually new sooner than they originally planned.
My best guess is they’ll be announced at photokina, with stock hitting the stores in maybe October. (Going by the timeline from the a77ii announcement.) odds are we won’t see the barrycam before the end of 2015 (which makes sense as the a77ii improvements translated to the a99ii would still make for a very attractive camera).
Barrycam…the name is already used..we have to call it the Barry Sensor.
Since Canon will likely anounce thier version…it will probably be stacked since they just published 3 new stacked sensor patents…and possibly mirrorless…since there are rumors of major improvements to their dual pixel af system…
Sony needs to do something soon or many many former A mount users..like myself..may jump ship and not return.
I am purchasing a new lens..either the Tammy 150-600 or the Sigma 300-600 that is possibly going to be anounced at this event.
Since this lens will stay on one camera..I will use my other cameras for macro…This camera does not have to be Sony.
If Sony wants my future business they will need to earn it now.
A77ii is definitely the way forward for macro – stabilised vf, decent live view, high res apsc… If only they’d release a 70mm Zeiss macro!
???? Depends on what canon releases.
A 56mp ff sensor will match the pixel density. Thereby eliminarting the crop factor advantage.
Of course a high mp stacked C sensor would blow away the a77II.
H size sensor format might be a real good idea…Canon has produced H sensors in the past..mayby they will again.
They anounced in 2010 a 120mp H sensor.
True – 2015 could be an interesting year! Hopefully I won’t get the upgrade itch until the following year, which will give the new tech a bit of time to mature…
Why do you keep saying “C” and “H” when it’s APS-C and APS-H? What do you call FF?… “” sensor?
You clearly do understand exactly what I mean so I do not actually understand your question.
To clarify my meaning here are examples of what I mean
C sensor…a77, a65 , nex 7
Ff…a99, a7r, a7s ,
The H size sensor is an in between size..smaller than ff and larger than C
Tamron 60mm f2 macro…best macro ever for C size camera at any price…and its inepensive.
The Tamron 60/2 has a very inconsistent autofocus. I do recommend the newest Tamron 90mm every day of the week.
I have never had issues on a77 or a65.
This is an older screw drive lens but due to the relatively short focal length focuses very fast.
As with any screw mount lens make sure it is properly seated in mount..sometimes turning camera on and off or reseating the mount helps when there are problems.
As for the newer 90mm macro being a super lens..I totally agree.
For ff I would not reccommend any less than 90mm.
On C the 60mm is a 90mm equvelent.
I prefer the Sigma 70/2.8 – I found it sharper with nicer micro-contrast and better handling. I just wish they’d update it with internal focusing and the art lens colour (which is more neutral)…
You need to compare at the sam f number..the Tammy is f 2.
I like to use f8 and a supplemenatal led light handheld primarily to increae dof..but lack of dof often gives the impresion of lack of sharpness.
Many macro lenses such as the ones we are discussing are so sharp that which is best simply comes down to personal prefferrence.
Your 70mm Sigma macro is also a super sharp lens.
And? Sony has had stacked sensor patents for years. But you think that Canon getting patents this year means they are releasing a stacked sensor this year? Even if they (or anyone else does) that does not mean they will be better than existing sensor tech. History repeats and there are limitations to every sensor design.
For a long time now Canon rumor sites have been saying Canon will PUBLISH patents…which have already been granted shortly before release pf the product to maintain secrecy…because publshed patents are public domain.
The fact that this sensor is very much expeted now is further supported by three new stacked sensor publications and a dual pixel parent.
So yes I think it will happen and like you I will wait to see the qiality.
One new patent shows an insulating ant reflective layer between color layers.
This will improve color fidelity but result in a thicker sensor…I am concerned about the effect of this thickness on quality.
Sorry Barry, Patents are public record. While there is a window of time Patent holders van request for patents not to be disclosed, this is quite short and rarely co-incides with a product release. The only way to get around this is to delay patenting in order to not show what you are working on (Apple do this) but runs the risk of others getting that idea patented first. Publishing a Patent is in the hands of the patent office, if a company wants to publish their patents to show off how innovative they are, well good on them I guess. Like Sony, Canon patent LOTS of things (I recall them being the biggest patent holder in the world) that never come to market. They show off technologies at trade shows that never are intended to come to market either. It doesn’t mean anything until there is a product you can buy (or at least announced to be able to buy).
I’m hoping so. They need to maintain the momentum generated by the A7, A7r, A77II, and A7s launches. Hopefully we see a A99II, and a NEX-7 replacement, as both would peak my interest.
Unless Sony introduces new sensor tech at this show they will have definitely lost the momentum.
What would your reaction be when 2015 rolls around and there’s no indication of new stacked sensors from any manufacturer. And then 2016 rolls around and they’re all still manufacturing cameras based around CMOS technology. And then 2017 rolls around and same thing.
I think you are wildly optimistic about the accessibility of stacked sensors. It’s not going to happen any time soon. It’s just not.
Barry can’t you please switch to Canon or another company with great sensor “rumors”? I can’t read this sensor howling anymore. Obviously Sony isn’t for you with it’s lousy prehistoric tech…
bye barry
You need “trusted sources” for this news? At the current price point, they will have a very difficult time to clear the existing stock. It is not a secret.
For whatever reason Sony appear not to do the firesales they did with earlier ones (e.g., the A390 sold at 1/3 the price at Sony dealers to clear the stock)
I wish there was news of a video focused a-mount equivalent of the a7s but with stabilisation. Or even an vg900 with the a7s sensor. That sensor is so amazing sony need to build on the rave reviews it is getting – but really want it with a- mount and stabilisation (5axis:)
A vg900 with the a7s could be great, though Sony may be reserving it for an FS-100 revision.
Hardware sensor stabilization does not work in video mode. The a-mount cameras use electronic stabilization and it isn’t very good (sharpness / resolution are reduced). Lens-based stabilization does work though, of which the e-mount offers many options.
Sensor stabilisation works in video in the em-5 (olympus) and it was rumoured here sony bought the rights to it. Lens based is good but 5 axis sensor stabilisation is better imo as it works with any lens.
Sony currently does not have this despite hope to the contrary.
Oh also there are no fast primes with stabilisation.
Release the A99II and A58II, drop the price of the A99 and A58 but keep them going as cheaper lower spec, models to fill the price gaps in the range.
Its also rumoured/wildly-speculated that the A88 with be released when the A99 (original model) stock is depleted (probably 2015). The A88 will be nothing more than a 24mp A99II, and the low cost option everyone is so desperate to have.
Show me this wild speculation…
Where?
I believe you can find it @ http://www.google.com. XD
Okay, what do you mean with brand new autofocusing systems? The recent (so not brand new anymore) system from the A77II or something newer? (Like the A99’s dual AF, but now A6000 like coverage?)
I prefer a slower dual AF system that is spread out across the full frame over the faster a77-2 AF with aps-c coverage if I was magically given the choice. What good is fast tracking if you an only do it in the central 1/9 of the frame?
I don’t see why you prefer slower but wider coverage. It could be simply as fast as the A77II but more coverage? But I agree, tracking with only the center 1/9th of the frame isn’t ideal.
I prefer it if Sony has to make an engineering or price cutting choice. Traditionally the highest resolution cameras don’t have the same speed as lower res, fastest AF cameras. Simply compare the a7 versus the a7r for proof of this.
Would I like both? Sure, who doesn’t want everything. However for a 36+mp full frame camera greater coverage is the better improvement versus faster AF – if Sony simply recycles the a77-2 AF module (again) to obtain it.
we want both full ff coverage and faster than a 77-2 af…..a99 II is the flagship of the a mount …. it has to have the best possible features/most features and features state of the art…other way it is not worth to be named flagship….
totally agree and if sony means it really, really serious with the fe mount they would bring out much more and much faster glass/lens for the fe mount….or pay zeiss more money for develop more and faster lens….they have more money thna canikon….
The problem is Sony is limiting the fe-mount to slower glass (f4 zooms and f1.8 primes) in order to keep it n compact and relying on adaptors make a range of lenses available… What I’d like to see is a range of good (but affordable) G primes with oss.
I don’t think there is much of a market for a $6000+ Sony dslr. Canon & Nikon have that market locked up.
The market for flagsips is always smaller.
That doesn’t meant there isnt a market.
If anything it increases the prestige of the brand to have such *niche* professional products.
Releasing such a body would be putting the cart before the horse. They need international pro services, better 1st party accessories (and 3rd party support ) and significant marketing to prove that the lenses are up to par. The prosumer and enthusiast market are far more lucrative than the pro sports / journalist market. They also have a far greater chance of pushing their mirrorless bodies to this segment as a lightweight 3rd body alternative.
While I think they need to push their camera’s to truly displace Canikon (last a99 had a crap buffer, locked up after a few shots and a paltry, inadequate AF system for a full frame) They certainly need to update their accessories. Their flashes are overheating junk not useful for professional work. You cannot hold down a wedding with their best flashes the hvl-f60m. Their “standardized” hot shoe is not standardized at all to the rest of the market and doesn’t allow fitting of pocket wizards etc because some moron in engineering decided to put a bunch of useless wiring in the front. And because of this there is no practical wireless flash system available. I still shoot sony because they have the best combo of base features in their camera bodies even with all their numerous quirks but their flash support sucks
the same is true especially fuji x systewm lack of competitive flashes and flash system, partially for olympus too
The defective HVL-f60 has been a bitter disappointment for me too due to the overheating. I have had success mounting pocket wizards to the a99 MIS. TTL does not work but it triggers just fine. Unfortunately the f60 flashes lack PC / sync ports for whatever idiotic reason so that further limits trigger options (I don’t have the pocket wizards with the shoe).
Although I do appreciate the little connectors of the shoe – they enable me to use the XLR adapter – supplying both the connectivity and power directly to the microphones.
The A77II module would cover about 1/6th of a full frame, without adjustments to the lens in front of the module.
The a99 has about 1/9 to 1/8 coverage. While 1/6 would be an improvement, coverage of 17% would still be woeful.
Hahaha….this is so good!
Definitely this is purposely a sony marketing tactic, sony do not want to miss executing a cycle of refreshing their flagship Amount. Sony want to see what kind of announcement from:
1. Canon
2. Nikon
3. Pentax
4. Fuji
No doubt this is good move because Canon to refreshing their flagship 5DM3 time has come. further more Canon leaks news that the next announcement is “BIGGEST ever leap” in this year Photokina.
Let wait for what Sony counter measure after Photokina v(^.^)
Sony probably already knows what the competition will release.
There are no rumors hinting the replacement of Canon 5Dm3 this year. So far 5D series have been renewed every 3-3.5 years, so most likely it will take another year for the update.
Of course they might push the update, if they feel that they are getting too far behind Sony sensors and they already have developed the next generation of the sensor tech.
The rumored 7D replacement might have new sensor tech, however that will compete against A77m2. Even if the new Canon APS-C sensor exists and is ready for mass production, it still does not guarantee that it is readily applicable to FF size. Scaling sensor size is more complex than it might seem. It involves dealing with different angles of light, heat dissipation, lower production yield and other factors.
If we see 7D replacement, mean that sony merely can figure out the next canon flagship full frame 5DM3 replacement. In common sense all spec must be better than this new 7D 🙂
and based on what canon/nikon doing so far pushing the pocket-able size camera, they are NOT going to ‘stab’ on their own business. Since both of them relying heavily on their existing lenses eco-system. Ultimately pretty make sense if canikon does not enter to mirrorless FF/APSC business. If they did, they will faces what sony facing problems 🙂
I don’t think Canon cares, they own the market. The A99II will probably make the 5D MKIII look like an antique, but I doubt I’ll make a serious dent.
Sony will probably spark an A-Mount refresh cycle with the A850/A900 owners (like me) who held off purchasing the A99 initially because it didn’t offer us enough of a incentive to upgrade/hand over 3K. (I only bought the A99 only after my original A850 failed)
There is a huge market of existing A-Mount users ready to upgrade if the price is right, and the feature set is compelling enough.
And we treat rumours as gospel now do we? Let’s wait and see what Canon counters with first, they have been on the back foot for forever, so it’s about time they caught up (you are assuming they will leap frog everyone… this has been assumed before).
…”a possible future new A99II”…
make.believe
It’s likely that the customer base for a new flagship A-mount is too small to justify a lot of investment. Sony might just concentrate on a “flagship” EF mount designed to appeal to owners heavily invested in A-Mount and go beyond the A7 series. The ability to use IBIS, higher frame rates, larger battery capacity, more room for controls and designs less constrained by heat dissipation would be a good start.
There has previously been loose talk about hybrid A-E mount (without adapters), which didn’t seem to make much technical sense (from simple mechanical interfacing point of view), but some sort of systems camera designed to converge A & E makes a great deal of sense, even if adapters are required. That way Sony can avoid, or delay. the enormous cost and timescale of re-engineering existing A-Mount lenses to E mount, particularly at the long, fast end where the natural advantages of the small A7 series bodies are irrelevant, if not not actually a disadvantage (eg more vulnerable to shutter vibration).
So, roughly speaking, a larger EF-mount body with an A-mount adapter included and features like IBIS (even if a small crop is required with IBIS for it to operate within the image circle defined by the E-Mount crop).
We’ll see, but just such a camera could have me reaching for my wallet.
As for the A58, it’s probably best to see that as a model where Sony have done their utmost to minimise production costs for an entry-model A-mount with a relatively small customer basis. Spending a lot of money on minor improvements probably makes little sense.
Regarding the customer base being too small to support a new A-mount
flagship, that makes no sense. How do you explain continued development
of DLSR and ILC cameras from Pentax/Ricoh, Samsung, Sigma, Fuji,
Olympus, Panasonic, etc? They are all equal or smaller than Sony’s A-mount base.
Just priorities. Sony will have a limited development pool and priorities. They do actually see themselves getting to number 2 in the market, and that means gaining new customers. Given how well Canon and Nikon are established in the DSLR market (including replacement), then Sony’s best bet is surely the “quality” end of the mirrorless ILC market where Canon and Nikon don’t have serious offerings.
In the case of (Ricoh) Pentax, their last DSLR was announced 9 months ago, and the frequency of new models is very low. The K3 is a very good but, dare I say, “traditional” DSLR and there’s no doubt enough customer base tgo keep it ticking over. However, Panasonic have never released an FF version and it looks like their flagship is medium format as they have a clear price advantage over other players (and no competition from Canon or Nikon in the prosumer area, save those who think FF is enough).
Samsung are, of course, a challengre entrant and if they are a long-term player in the consumer field. They have very deep pockets and can afford to play the long term game. They also don’t have the problem of splitting their product line and development in the way that Sony has to do.
Fuji also have nowhere else to go if they are to remain in the ILC market. They either keep investing, or they give up on the market altogether.
I’ll stand by this. I think Sony will (indeed are) prioritising E-mount, and they’ll provide a more attractive route to existing A-Mount customers. In particular, they will tackle the areas where current E-mount cameras are weak. Should they prove mirrorless ILC is capable of matching, or surpassing the performance of “traditional” DSLRs, they stand a very good chance of being the major player in that area. In the case of A-mount, then they have no chance of supplanting either Nikon or Canon as market inertia (and captive customers) will dominate.
@SteveGJ:disqus
You are right about Sony prioritizing their R&D and their product development, but its been that way for a bit, because they have gone to a shared service model and R&D is one of those shared services. Product development is done along product families, not per product. … Of course, unless they restructured again recently.
Also, they think in terms of generations of products. That is, they make decisions on which features should be included or excluded in this model version to be added later the next version. Its been successful for them in the past where they have been the leaders – broadcast, professional audio, etc. I think the younger managers don’t know that may not always work if they don’t have the dominating product line.
I agree. I think Sony is (wisely) hedging their bets in DSLR and Mirrorless because they have a bigger market share to support DSLR than those other brands that abandoned it. This way they can continue to make DSLRs until mirrorless takes over. They already have the best integration of legacy lenses of all brands which they are slightly holding back on for now, but it would be trivial for them to provide a pro level adapter with AF from the A77 II and weather sealing etc and bodies for transitioners from A-Mount with IBIS. A-Mount will eventually fade out, but they are not dropping it like a sack of potatoes like so many other brands have done in the last few years.
Ricoh dropped GXR mount
Samsung dropped K-Mount
Fuji dropped F mount
Olympus dropped Four Thirds
Panasonic dropped Four Thirds
Sigma have stuck with SA mount as they already develop cross mount lenses, so makes little difference to them.
I agree that the customer base for a new flagship A-mount is very small compare to Cankon, therefore just put the A7R 36mp sensor in the old A99 body with A77 ii AF + Bionz x will be good enough.
Hmm. There has been a lot of speculation about a FF a-mount coming at Photokina & more recently the leak from Indonesia. Everything is just rumors at the mo & none of these are reliable.
So we have just had a FF camera released by Sony the a7s. Could this be the one they are going to promote at Photokina? It is a FF interchangeable camera (hence the supposed Indonesia leak). I presume Nikon are going to promote the D810 like crazy there, unless they have another FF camera coming out.
I am very interested in the a99II or even the a9 (it it exists at all) FE (with IBIS?). I would expect Sony to release a camera at Photokina to compete with the others but unfortunately I am not holding my breath. The a99 replacement was allegedly arriving at the beginning of this year!
So to re-iterate there are no confirmed rumors of new FF a-mount cameras coming out at all at Photokina but Sony have already released several cameras FF & otherwise already this year. So I have feeling they are going to promote just these at Photokina.
They might bring out some new lenses though e.g. the FE 16-35mm lens.
If there are not A-mount FF new models at Photokina, it will be extremely likely that there will not be any more A-mount cameras. The A77II will then be known as the last A-mount camera to ever be made.
Since when? 4 years is a typical life cycle for a semi-pro FF camera…. I’m not sure where everyone seems to think they should be updated every 18 months or its the end of the line? Nikon have started releasing ‘updated’ model numbers for their cameras, but the updates are incredibly minor at best (those complaining about A77 II update should take a look). Yes we are probably moving to more rapid update cycles but this complaining has got to stop.
sony can make the best image sensor in the world (36mp, 50mp)
sony can make the best HDTV in the world (Bravia)
sony can make the best game console in the world (PS4)
sony can make the third best phone in the world (Xperia)
sony can make good audio system and headphones
sony can make make the best disc storage system in the world (bluray disc)
sony can make the second best cinema cameras (next to RED)
but sony can’t make a solution for LONGER BATTERY LIFE LOL
almost everything I read about sony’s camera product review . mostly the customers have agreed on one thing, and that’s about sony’s battery life problem.
man you even tried to quick fix this problem by giving us 2 fake batteries that is made in china on A7S as a bundle.
Who are you talking to?
im talking to any sony representative that is reading this site. they need to tell the Japanese developers/engineers to make better battery life for their camera system
Can’t you carry an extra battery in your purse?
yes I now have 2 extra fake batteries (made in china) from the A7S bundle. I have compared it to the original battery that sony makes and it is lighter and cheaper in comparison.
This is the lamest rant I’ve read in recent memory. Sony delivers a FF body in a form factor smaller than some micro four thirds bodies, and you’re whining about battery life? What are you, 12 years old? Get the battery grip and grow up.
That is my whole point! Sony can make the best electronic product in the world yet they can’t give their battery more capacity. There has to be a way to do it if they focus their design team to solve the problem.
I already tried putting the LCD into standard quality. I turned my wifi on airplane mode. I have the battery grip. I only use the LCD to avoid using the power hungry EVF to consume my battery. I’m yet to try using memory stick instead of SD. I heard it use less power to write on card.
Also sony shouldn’t make high resolution EVF. The one from a6000 is ok. it saves battery.
I think the reason why im draining so much power is because of the 120fps 720p feature on A7S when im shooting videos. It is refreshing the EVF faster and it’s making the back of the camera produce heat.
I hope they are “compatible” rather than “fake”. I wouldn’t buy counterfeit Sony batteries as any company willing to do that are likely to skimp in other areas.
Compatible batteries are something completely different.
“I have compared it to the original battery that sony makes and it is lighter and cheaper in comparison.”
…and you think that’s a GOOD sign? LOL!
Get a life crybaby.
Agree to the A7 series – I wouldn’t have cried for little additional size of the body if they would have introduced the FM500 into this series.
Regarding the A Mounts you should turn on brain before comparing to Canikon.
We have IBIS and EVF – I don’t want to miss both, so I don’t blame the battery, instead I have my vertical grip with altogether three batteries, and still two for spare. And if I plan my next vacation in Antarctica or the Okavango Delta I will purchase some additional batteries… 🙂
On the weekend I used the a77II with 70-200G and 70-400GII. Took a total of 1463 images. No video recording. Used three separate SD cards. The battery charge was 100% when I started and 18% when I finished. It was a sports event and the focusing mode was continuous with lock-on autofocus activated, i.e. the most draining when it comes to battery consumption. If I had kept shooting, I would have easily reached 1800 pictures on that one single battery. I don’t call this a problematic battery performance.
All your examples of what SONY does best are valid, but you’re missing the point – what you have listed is true, because SONY engineer the sensors, screens, chips, algorithms etc. SONY is not a batter manufacturer. Neither is any other camera maker. They simply use whatever technology is available at the time. I don’t see why you want to blame SONY for something like this. You chose a smaller, lighter camera, with a smaller battery – you have to sacrifice something, you can’t have it all. If you want longer battery life, get a real Alpha camera.
Hopefully Tesla will develop some new battery tech and it will trickle down to smaller batteries…
In fact Sony were pioneers in the development of Li-Ion.
As to Tesla, there’s nothing revolutionary in the Li-Ion batteries they uyse which will somehow “trickle down” to consumer electronics and revolutionise capacity. What Tesla are innovative at is battery control and integration. The needs of a car are very different to those of a camera. Car batteries have to be capable of many more charge/discharge cycles, and must be capable of balancing the load over thousands of cells. That’s not really the issue with consumer Li-Ion batteries, which are overwhelmingly 1 or 2 cell arrangements which are easily replaced (the main exception being laptops typically run at 14.4v, which can be achieved with 4 Li_Ion cells in series). For most people, battery capacity issues are easily resolved. Just carry a spare or two. There will always be an opportunity to swap out a battery. It’s more serious issue for taking videos of course.
The reason why (some) Sony mirrorless cameras have more limited capacity is not due to the battery technology (which is pretty well the same for all), but due to systems design decisions. What’s the form factor of the camera, how large a battery to install; whether to use an EVF and how fast it’s refreshed. How fast should the processor be clocked which is, itself, related to things like frame rate.
In the case of the A7 series, the (relatively) short battery life is mainly a function of a small body (and hence smaller battery) combined with running a large sensor and an EVF. (The EVF not only uses power itself, but demands that a subset of the pixels are read frequently in order to maintain the illusion of a continuous image).
I also shot around 1,500 over the last weekend (I’ve just checked) on a single battery using the A77II, LCD on, AF-C and a HSM lens. I can’t remember what it got down to but with capacity left 1,500 is plenty!
I have no idea why people complain about battery life, they must look at the figure in the specs but not actually use it?
Do either of you have a77i? I was wondering if the subtraction of GPS has improved battery life for the a77ii, that would be great. I get at best 600-800 shots on a77i but usually around 400-500 (casual shooting).
No and I believe that GPS doesn’t make much difference. I’ve never got as low as 500 shots in the years of my A77. If you use the on-board flash then you will of course. I assume you have power save switched on.
I have shot a wedding on A77 I, one battery, using onboard flash (to trigger external flash) and got over 1500 shots from that one battery.
This simply is not possible and not backed up by any review or my experience.
Battery life is best when shooting many pictures in bursts in a short time.
When only taking single shots far apart they dont last as long.
Nevertheless I have no complaints about battery life.
I carry a total of 8 batteries for 2 cameras and never depleted then all in a single day…I once came close however…
If only they could make more lenses able to capitalize on 36MP or above. The last good audio system Sony made was the 90s ES series of CD players, amps, etc. etc.
Yeah, those ES amplifiers were unexpectedly good for Sony.
Sony’s big problem has always been that the completely fail to acknowledge their strengths while at the same time throwing money down the drain on other products that are no better than what Samsung is selling for two thirds the price.
I very much doubt their upper management actually walks down to the assembly line and tries out their products to see whether it’s actually good or not. Very much a company run on personal fiefdoms of their various division managers, some turning out well designed and highly competitive products and others going “of course we can charge more – we’re Sony!”
Please compare the battery life with the liveview mode of DSLR
OR other mirrorless camera
IMO, SONY already did a good job on battery comsumption
In the past Sony proved multiple times that logical assumptions about their planned releases are kind of barking at the wrong tree.
Currently I would argue that it makes more sense to release an A99 upgrade – whether a new one or an evolvement à la A99M2 I don’t care.
Recently Sony released M2’s of the G’s 300, 70200 and 70400, they released the 500 and the Planar 50, and it’s rumored that the mighty 135ZA will get a M2 with SSM (and likely the 85ZA will follow). I assume that A77/A58 are not the main clientele of these partly exorbitant expensive lenses.
The A9 wouldn’t make most sense at this time due to the lack of lens range – taking into account that most high end customers are quite sticky to brand (and mount) own lenses.
As said, they will likely prove me wrong again, and bring some surprises.
This time they should, as the Photokina 12 was not overly interesting regarding new equipment.
I agree with you that it would be more logical to release FF-camera(s) for A-mount and more lenses for FE-mount right now. With the A7x-series and the APS-C E-mount cameras there is enough to choose from there already. A more professionally directed FF E-mount camera would need more high-quality lenses to make a good case. I also agree with you that it’s anyone’s best guess what Sony will do… It has proven difficult to anticipate in the past. Right now, I just hope that they make good on their promises when it comes to E-mount lens releases this year. I want that UWA-zoom.
Why not discontinue A mount?
Quite simple- if it makes money they keep it. Even if those profits are minor it’s still a revenue stream. So, with little dedication- you just warm over a lens every once in awhile- dump a body for all those fans out there and wammo- easy cash without much effort.
The A-Mount is 30% of Sony’s Consumer Imaging Division’s revenue stream. So the Alpha makes the multi-billion dollar a crap ton of money.
Alphas will continue to earn more than the NEX, because the average A-Mount user spends much more on camera, and bodies than the average e-mount user.
Based on your chart E mount has been an increasing percent of thier business and A mount has maintained a relatively stable consistent percentage.
I agree with those commentors that say A mount is a very important part of Sony future and Sony would be very wrong to neglect it.
If A mount were to be phased out there would be a huge number of upset former Sony customers that would not want to purchase another Sony product of any kind.
There is a myth that E mount is compatable with almost anything but it is not true…E mount is FULLY compatable ONLY with NATIVE E MOUNT lenses and usable but not fully compatable with anything else.
AF is slower with other lenses than by using them on thier own cameras and no IBIS makes the system even more incompatable with A mount.
I have long been in favor of a universal Sony E mount or hybrid system that would be FULLY compatable via adaptors with all lenses and sysfems.
This would allow Sony to compete for the vast majority of camera users that are committed to non Sony systems. No one currently needs to buy Sony lenses for Sony cameras unless they choose to so this would have little effect on Sony lens sales.
E mount is not a universal system but rather an attemp to create a new market segment.
Any Sony universal system would need to be based off the E mount system because it has the shortest flange distance. It would deffinitely need IBIS and electronics capable of translating multiple opperating system lenses into compatable high speed compatable lenses.
Additionally the long discussed Z shift could not only allow for differrent distances but also have aditional extension available for a close focus mode that would work on any lens….I do not know if Z shift focusing is doable or not but certainly a close focus mode is.
Sony has recently been putting thier latest tech only into E mount and this is causing a lot of concern with A mount users.
Sony needs to rebuild the latest A mount system..and/or build a fuuly funtional universal system to accomadate the flood of displaced A mount users.
Besides the other reasons mentioned already, Sony is very aware if Sony discontinues the A mount, Sony is communicating to everyone that Sony might discontinue any other mount at some later date.
They know people will wonder, ‘Gosh they dropped A-mount who had a bunch of users, what is stopping them from dropping my mount in the future.’
Hasn’t stopped people from buying Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji cameras… the only three brands in recent history to have completely dropped modern mounts.
You’re bending history to your own favor and you know it. Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji cameras DSLR sales had tanked, and they were loosing money. They had no choice but to amputate their DSLR segment or go into bankruptcy.
Sony’s DSLR segment is growing rapidly, and it is very profitable. It now represents over 35% of Sony’s Consumer Digital Imaging Division revenue. Mirror-less is only 20%.
Action Cameras have a brighter future than mirror-less.
Care to point to those figures? Besides my comment had nothing to do with that, I was responding that despite ‘dumping’ their previous mounts other manufacturers seem to be doing ok, at least in the minds of their users. But of course if Sony does it they will be the ‘I told you so laughing stock of the photography internet’, while these other companies doing it goes completely unnoticed. I see m43’s users making these claims all the time about how Sony are going to ‘dump’ their users… oh the irony! I guess most of them don’t care as Four Thirds market share was practically non existent.
Look below I posted the slide.
Why not? They already have.
Were you born stupid or did you take lessons?
ROTFL……….
Did someone actually suggest something as completely idiotic as Sony dumping its most profitable camera division, for its margin-less mirror-less camera segment, that’s doomed to fail.
If anything Sony should dump Full Frame mirror-less and focus on the APS-C e-mounts (an A6 would really hit the spot), and action cameras, cause Fuji seems to have already made Sony’s CSC irrelevant (XT-1).
Sony didn’t launch a weather-sealed A7000 or APS-C A6 like we wanted, and most of flocked to the pro-orientated weather sealed APS-C XT-1, and its gorgeous little 56mm f/1.2.
Who is ‘most of us’? You mean the idiots drinking the Fuji kool-aid of ‘great’ high ISO performance and barely adequate AF? Or is it the blurry mush JPEGS and RAWS that we are flocking to? Or is it the $1000 slow super zoom that is the only weather sealed lens we can get for our great ‘pro camera’? Surely the pros are absolutely beside themselves salivating over such a pro combo of X-T1 and 18-135mm kit lens. Nope, it’s the 56mm f1.2 that costs a grand and doesn’t outperform a $300 85mm f1.8. Yeah, smart people are definitely flocking to Fuji alright 😉
I take it you don’t shoot Fuji. I have shot with a friends camera. Its high ISO performance can compete with mid level FF cameras easily. Its really that good. And while I am not too hot on the Fuji colors its a personal preference.
Their lenses are all very sharp and their 56mm f1.2 is a very very good lens. Their AF may not be the best of the best (I tried an XE2) but I found it more than adequate for anything other than shooting fast moving objects.
I’ve owned an X100 and X-E1, plus the supposedly ‘amazing’ 18-55mm and 35mm f1.4. Their ISO performance is nowhere near FF, they are line ball with other APS-C cameras of their generation. ‘high ISO’ might be great, it’s easy to have good ISO 3200 performance when it is really ISO 2000. Plus they add severe dollops of NR in RAW. So they cheat and people who don’t know any better lap it up (and it’s a pity most reviewers don’t even check, they too drink the kool-aid).
Their lenses are decent and stack up about as well as other modern lenses. They stack up poorly compared to just about any full frame due to being tied to an average sensor in terms of real resolution.
There is way too much circle jerking over Fuji gear, the a6000 for example exceeds the X-T1 in just about every way, except EVF and build, but costs half as much. An A7 costs about as much and blows it out of the water.
The Fuji files require a bit more sharpening that most other cams but since they lack an AA filter you can get some really tack sharp photos. Better than any other 16 MP APS-C camera.
And I disagree on ISO performance. They cameras have very little chroma noise that is very common with APS-C sensors. Everybody out there does noise reduction on RAW files now so while Fuji might be doing a bit more than most they are still noticeably better.
Dpreview have come up with that conclution too –
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x-t1/16
Even if you take their ISO 6400 files as ISO 3200 of the competition, Fuji is still waay ahead of its peers.
Other cameras lack an AA-filter and they don’t require sharpening as the detail is just there, not smudged away with NR regardless of ISO settings. Others don’t have the baked in NR that Fuji have, you apply an equal amount of NR to other files and you’ll get a similar result, if not better due to debayering. No, they really really aren’t. A6000 has a tonne more detail (due to higher resolution) and apply a similar level of NR and any noise difference is obliterated. Sorry, but this is what I was talking about with drinking the Kool-aid, everyone ‘thinks’ the Fuji output is somehow magical, it isn’t, it’s plain cheating (but very well executed on Fuji’s part that people believe them so easily).
Between that and the betaware ‘constant improvements’ scam, Fuji have pulled off the photographic gear head scam of the decade.
If you really hate Fuji THAT much. Why did you buy TWO Fuji bodies ? 😛
And your theories and tests are against almost ALL review sites. So either ALL of them are wrong or only you are correct.
I agree. Which is why I choose the XT-1, as my first mirror-less camera. It really like the controls, the weather sealing, and the fact all of the focal lengths I use most are available, and for a reasonable price.
Had Sony launched a 24mp APS-C A6 I’d probably have bought that instead.
He’s completely exaggerating. I compared the Fuji’s output with the A6000, and it was no contest. The Fuji has a better overall sensor, produces better JPEGs, and RAW files, don’t take my word for it there is a dozen reviews that say the same.
Like all CSC the XT-1 is no A99 replacement. I use it for small jobs where the DSLR isn’t required.
However its primes are all missing OSS which is kind of a let down.
The is one way of saying that no new A Mount cameras are in the pipeline.
Odds that there will be both an a99r and an a99s?
To me this trusted source hints that the coming A99II will be different from A99 and therefore A99 will still be selling alongside with A99II, the difference most likely is in the pixel count.
I’ve heard that the original A99 will eventual be rebadged A88.
Bayer sensors are obsolete.
It will take longer than expected to sell these obsolete cameras.
LOL.
Riiiiiight.
Barry can’t you please switch to Canon or another company with great sensor “rumors”? I can’t read this sensor howling anymore. Obviously Sony isn’t for you with it’s lousy prehistoric tech…
We should start a KickStarter project to pay for Barry’s conversion to Canon, and his institutionalization.
Let’s copy his posts, and send them to the authorities in Yankee land. I bet they’d have him in a rubber room wearing a one size fits all jacket in no time at all.
Barry should be using Medium Format but is too tight to stump up the cash. He wants gazillions of megapixels but doesn’t want to pay for it.
How can Bayer sensors be obsolete when usable stacked sensors don’t even exist yet…I won’t be losing sleep over it…
I think the only thing around here that’s obsolete is Barry.
In other words, A99II and A58II will be delayed.
Good job. What a brain you have!
Andrea – Did your source say this calendar year? Or this fiscal year (April 2015)? Or, could it have been interpreted as simply “longer” but not necessarily the full year? I ask because its bad business to talk about a successor camera being released before the current stock is depleted and before manufacturing has been retooled. So, if your source is inside Sony, he may be have been told that from senior mgmt.
Well that could just mean that the new A-mounts will be announced at Photokina. But not ship till early next year…
I think your probably 100% correct.
Hopefully they’ll launch a weather sealed Zeiss 24-70 f/2.8 SSMII to go along with the new camera.
A99
7r sensor 36mp . A77II Phase detect with Phase detect on sensor too .
12fps rapid AF in crop mode with STL down .
5FPS using, STL up slower, AF better wow light .
Better Screen resolution .Everything else same .
But ……..That would hurt the A77 so ye its just a pipe dream .