A6000 vs T5 (1200D) at Camerasize.
Here at SAR we often complain about the issues of some Sony cameras but we also do often forget that Sony is really leading the innovation in the digital camera industry unlike so many other companies. This week for example we had the Sony A6000 (specs here at Amazon) and the Canon T5 (specs here at Amazon) announcement.
Well Nofilmschool compared the two cameras and more in general the two companies and writes:
It’s simply stunning how much more tech Sony is fitting into their camera than Canon is in theirs. Not to harp on Canon (because Nikon isn’t much better), but Canon has essentially released the same 18MP camera over and over again for the last 3-4 years.
No doubt that Sony did shake the camera industry but Sony stills struggles to increase the market share in the system camera market. Innovation alone is not enough yet. They should create confidence by releasing more “mature” products and deliver a better support too. But more important they should unveil clear A and E-mount lens roadmap (for both FF and APS-C system). That’s the one thing to do to create a long term confidence. I hope the next Sony announcement scheduled for late March will also include new lenses!
Updated A6000 preorder list with US and Europe links:
Sony A6000 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama, BHphoto (Click here), SonyStore (Click here). In Europe at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, AT, NL, BE, CH, FI, SE, PT, WexUK.
Silver A6000 at WexUK (Click here).
Sony A6000 with lens at Amazon (Click here), Adorama, BHphoto (Click here), SonyStore (Click here), Sony Canada (Click here), WexUK (Click here).
Silver A6000 with lens at WexUK (Click here).
Sony 70-200mm FE at Amazon (CLick here), BHphoto (Click here), SonyStore (Click here). In Europe at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, AT, NL, BE, CH, FI, SE, PT
DSC-H300 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here).
DSC-H400 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here).
DSC-HX400 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here).
DSC-WX350 Black at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here).
DSC-WX350 White at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here).
DSC-W800 Black at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here).
DSC-W800 Silver at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here).
0 Responses
Sony has no real choice
Wow I really hate typing on my iPad.
What I meant to say is now that Sony doesn’t have a PC or TV business it probably has no choice, and will likely pour all its resources into its remaining three or four electronics divisions.
As sad as I am about Sony bowing out of the television and computer markets as I’ve always seen them as a sort of “Apple part two”, I completely agree with you and in a way, have more confidence than ever that Sony will now have more resources to pour into their camera lines and hopefully, someday, provide a fleshed out system no matter whether you jump onto any of the four camera systems of theirs (A/E mount and APSC/FF lenses)
What I meant by Sony being that “second Apple” is that when it came to their PC offerings, you could always find a cheaper, comparable competitor out there, but if you also wanted style, design, and that added oomph of something “special” added to the mix, Sony was your option if you absolutely had to get a PC or just don’t care for Apples to begin with. That’s just my opinion about their PC business at least, but I’ve also noticed spotting a Vaio out in the wild was somewhat rare so I guess it’s just time for them to throw in the towel.
For some reason the majority of professors from our physics dpt. uses Vaios…
Their design was always nice but they did suck too much. Horrible build quality, non-existent heat dissipation and so on. My father used to use some but most of them broke in one way or the other.
Uh, it was Steve Jobs who was inspired by Sony and their Vaios, their design, attention for detail and build quality. So much so that the current keyboard on Macbooks is based on Vaio keyboards. And Steve was willing to make an exception for Sony and give them a License to run iOS on their Vaios….an offer/deal that Sony kindly declined.
Sources, please.
Sounds really hard to believe
The keyboard part has been known for years, even in the Apple community, the licensing offer for iOS was in the news last week. The fact that Steve was greatly inspired by Sony and even built his business model and production processes following Sony’s example, has been mentioned several times in his biography and there’s a documentary where he even visits a Sony factory and their founder to meet his source of inspiration.
http://nobi.com/en/Steve%20Jobs%20and%20Japan/entry-1212.html
Sony had it in them to succeed so many times.
The A7, A7r and the A6000 was the first real good steps.
But $ony is still retarded in so many areas.
I’m sure that Canon will be crying all the way to the bank…
lol.
Sony probably will regain market share
Sony’s PC, TV, and Games division were sucking all of their resources away from the other divisions for the last five years while Sony attempted to prop them up.
Now that the games division is successful due to the PS4, the PC, and TV divisions virtually eliminated Sony will likely regain the market share it lost while trying to fix lost causes.
I wouldn’t count them out.
How will Sony regain market share?
Why wouldn’t you count them out?
Not saying you are wrong, but wishful thinking doesn’t overcome the trend. The trend is that Sony is being forced to dump its money-losing consumer product lines. This includes core business lines like PCs and TVs- lines that have been around longer and are more part of the tradition of the Sony brand than are the recent digital still camera line (the latter referring to the Minolta follow-on we are discussing here).
The big volume, big losers got the first axe. Then the secondary losers get a close scrutiny. How will the losing consumer photography line survive that scrutiny over the long term, when shareholders are angry?
Sony was into imaging long before they started selling pc’s.
As for imaving, the losses come from digicams and camcorders, not so much the rest.
Agreed… Innovation isn’t cheap. If I were at the top of any market why would I want to continue to chase innovation all the time. It would be much easier to slide back, let my competition throw away millions in R&D seeing what people wanted and didn’t want and then swoop in afterwards to offer my version of what seemed to be winning… I’m no Canon fan, but their attitude makes more sense than say Nikon that has gone down some half assed attempt at mirror-less… I expect at some point Canon will join the fight if they see it makes sense… all the while Sony continues to throw ideas against the wall hoping some stick.
I don’t think Canon or Nikon will recognize the danger until its too late.
i don’t think they care at the moment, not until the market number reflect the trend. Both of them have the technology in house.
therein lies the problem
When the market turns, it doesn’t wait for anyones opinion.
But Sony is not on the right track to exploit possible turn of the markets.
All these talks about innovation concern camera bodies and sensors only. Lenses are never taken into account, but, hey, lenses are still the most important single item that creates the photographic image.
If I am not mistaken Sony has now 5 different lens lines, none of them “complete”, nor satisfying for many possible uses, but almost all of them completely abandoned. Now they will push the FE mount: will it last?
What’s with the “5 lens lines” nonsense? Thom Hogan propaganda. There are 2 mounts that fit 4 different lens lines, in the case of the APS-C cameras, FE or ff A mount glass works just as great. And no, longer lenses would have been similar in size had they just covered an APS-C image circle.
It’s better to start developing these mirrorless lens lines now than having to start from scratch when the big paradigm shift to mirrorless bodies starts.
That being said, camera makers tell us that 90% of the users stick with a single lens…
Huh? Out of those two, Canon is the one that has gone down some half-assed attempt at mirrorless with the joke they called EOS-M.
Nikon on the other hand successfully identified an unoccupied niche in that category and filled it, alone. No, they’re not competing on IQ with DSLRs or large-sensor mirrorless, but they’re not even trying to. And they’re still probably learning enough with it that they can eventually launch a reasonably serious challenger to Sony and Fuji when they feel the need.
I agree
I think Canon is just going to yank the mirror, add a new sensor, and view finder to their existing camera designs while maintaining the EF Mount. When they have no other choice.
Their current users having a smooth upgrade path will buy them in droves, and Canon will establish itself as the premiere full size professional mirror-less camera brand overnight.
Its not innovative or original, but Canon understands the value of an established mount, and backwards compatibility.
So they’ll succeed, along side Sony bright future.
I think Nikon is in serious trouble.
That’s the main reason why ppl are more interested into bling bling than quality when they prefer Canon to Nikon 😉
Indeed if Canon is making so much adverts, it’s maybe because they wanna compensate some lacks by overwhelming ppl with their marketing shows…
I’m not a Nikon fanboy nor a professional photographer, but i see lots of them with Nikon camera except in France ( that should be a clue Canon is not so great;) ). I’m more hedonist, so i m focused on aesthetic first.
So Nikon images are more hdr-alike while Canon images are more natural. In other words, Nikon seemed to me more artistic to me than Canon for now…
KODAK
Kodak was a small company with limited resources. Sony has a very diversified number of electronics and entertainment divisions. If one division fails the other divisions can easily cushion the fall.
So the comparison don’t make sense
Kodak’s market capitalization in 1997 was $30 Billion
Size is irrelevant. KODAK O W N E D the industry.
Adapt or die!
WOW, I had no idea Kodak was ever that large. I just remember them for pushing out crap cameras, and cheap film.
I think the PS4, A6000, and the A7r are excellent signs of adaptation.
There was the film duopoly of kodak and fuji (kodak being canon to Fuji’s nikon). Plus they made motion picture film, print paper stock, developing chemicals – the cheap disposable cameras were a small part. There were Kodak developing / printing kiosks everywhere. To make a photographic image, you pretty much had to use a Kodak product at some stage (or make an effort to intentionally avoid them).
+1
Its really a shame to see how overconfidence (Hubris) can led to a companies eventual down fall.
The KODAK reference is in regards to Canon not Sony.
😉
+1
I think your right.
If you went straight market-share on the film comparison I think it would be something like:
Canon = Kodak
Nikon = Fuji
Sony = Agfa
Leica = Ilford
🙂
+1
AFGA is doing well, they earned 47 million operating profit last quarter
Kodak almost had a monopoly on film. They had patents that should have allowed them to control the photography way into the future. And they innovative with their cameras from the day that they started. They should have been unbeatable. BRAWT, you need to study your photography history.
Kodak was innovative – having the first professionally usable DSLRs – but they didn’t recognize what they have…
And also they were much too conservative – believing that film will be there forever…
And at the moment Canon has a very innovative sensor (the one in the 70D) but doesn’t use its potential – they use OSPDAF only in liveview mode because they are still on the OVF trip…
And they invented digital imaging and squandered it. Their executives were clueless in the 90s and 2000s. They had so much talent in their r&d and the fools ran the ship into the ground.
Kodak never inovated anything.
They basically stole any succesfull photographic idea and used expensive laywers to get around the patents.
Thier costs were lower because they didnt do any of thier own R&D.
Poloroid was the first company to stop them.
That’s just silly:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodak_DCS
Yes Kodak… and Nokia.
AGFA as is not a film company. It is a conglomerate, like Panasonic. The Film is just part of it. To my understanding, that has long been closed. Any, profit it is making is coming from its other companies, but not film.
As for innovation, you have to innovate in this type of industry. If you don’t you die. Recent history going back 10-15 years alone has shown this. Polaroid, Kodak, Minolta, Nokia, Motorola,etc have gone away for failure to innovate. If they are here, it’s not the same company you knew of them in the past. There are new owners and they usually no longer lead, but merely use the brand to sell themselves.
You simply cannot just sit, and let others lead then you come back in to overtake the leaders. This is not a sunset industry where you can rely on economies of scale to beat the leaders. Basically, Sony’s TV division is what will happen if you sit and just marvel at the past. The irony is, about 40-50 years ago, this is what Sony did to the same complacent US tv makers (who where lording it over then). Sony innovated, the USA tv makers didn’t. They stuck to the b&w tv and we all know the rest of the story.
If one thinks innovation is something you do in just a year or 2, you are wrong. Not in this industry. Not in this market. Part of the innovation process is not just in the lab or in the R&D. You need to get the product out to learn from the market, and iterate your product. If you just watch on the sidelines, sure, you can mark what the other is doing, and “learn” from it. But remember, your patent portfolio is different, and your culture and mindset is different. Real world exposure of one’s R&D is the ultimate test. If you don’t get it out, it’s not even an innovation. It is just an invention. Sit too long on your own success, and you can talk yourself out of it. Usually, it’s too late to do anything about it. Even having billions of dollars to burn will not help. Look at MS. It has the money and resources, but the arrogance of S. Balmer and its culture prevented it from really innovating. And slowly, but surely, another tech or framework will dislodge you. It’s not something your size or money in the bank will be able to solve because what was needed was INNOVATION and leadership and a corporate culture that is amenable to constant change to make it so.
Exactly. I love the line about Sony “shaking the industry” Yes it’s shaking because Canon is laughing so hard at the confusing alphabet, graveyard of “innovation”, and blank roadmaps from Sony.
Yes, absolutely they need better support, including a professional option. Sony currently contracts with Precision Camera for warranty repairs in the USA and I will say that my experiences with them have been terrible. There have been delays of up to 8 weeks, send-backs for re-repairs, and the most inexcusable — improper packaging which has led to two lenses being damaged in return shipping. In my opinion, Sony should cut ties with them and develop a more efficient, more capable repair strategy, with a professional option that gives priority repair and loaner equipment.
US shipping, haha. Gets your stuff delivered slow and broken for more than 5 times the average Chinese shipping rate.
This is true. I live in Canada, and I normally buy items from China rather than the US because they arrive faster. If they set-up a Sony-Pro service in North America it should be somewheres more reliable than the US.
It’s horrible. Having something shipped from the US to Europe costs me about 5 times more than shipping it the exact other way around too.
And that is one of the major reasons why very few pros that aren’t taking cameras out of a press pool in the USA won’t consider Sony. There is no NPS or CPS, there is no next day loaner program, there is no support. While I love my Sony gear, I know with my Nikon gear that if I am doing a shoot and I break something, I can call somebody at NPS and have a loaner there the next day. And I can get my repair turned around in a day plus shipping…
NEX-5T and 5R?
According to people who visited CP+, the next FE lenses will be
16-35
35 1.4
90 Macro
What do you guys think?
Imo, they should have gone for 14-24 for the WA. Also, I don’t really get the choice of making another 35 so early. I welcome the 90 macro though.
Don’t know if we could count on the 16-35 being f/2.8, it’ll be disappointing having another f/4.
According to the roadmap, it’s F4.
If you want fast ultrawides, the non-Sony Zeiss primes will be your best bet.
F4 is more than enough for UWA lens.
Well, it depends. For me certainly, but I can see that for people shooting parties and stuff having the extra light can make a difference.
I’ll be very happy to see a 16-35mm zoom. If it’s sharp, it will be a very useful lens for me on both APS-C and FF bodies.
The Nikon 16-35mm is one of my favourite lenses in my Nikon kit. I would love to be able to downsize a bit when I’m out in the wilds.
Yes, I’d prefer a shorter zoom for the WA, so it’s smaller and lighter. 14-24 or 16-24. The 35mm does sound weird.
Yeah, I agree… that would mean that they would have covered this single FL with 3 lenses.
But I don’t see a reason why those people should be lying either.
A native, good, and fast 35 is the only way I switch from Canon over to an A7. So I’d welcome Sony adding a 35/1.4 FE lens this year. That’s all it takes for me to give up my 6D and Sigma 35, which is a huge combo that I use for 90+% of my shots right now.
If you shoot 90% with 35mm, you may want to consider RX1
Any news on OSS?
There is no 35mm f/1.4 coming, and the zooms are all f/4.0.
I want a 85mm 135mm and maybe a 24mm. The 35mm 1.4 is going to cost a body part unless it is missing the blue badge but I would get one.
Btw.: more lens stuff, even though it’s most probably SLR:
http://www.tamron.co.jp/investors/pdf/2014/0212.pdf
Standard Zoom and WA zoom to come (p.28).
Interestingly, their main profit doesn’t come from lenses at all. Just says ‘photography related stuff’, whatever that is (p.4). Also, Tamron is gonna join cine glass production (p.29).
Could be misspell:
35 1.4
85 1.4
That would actually make a lot of sense. Esp. because they’ve got covered the 35 also with the RX1.
I really hope that 35 f/1.4 is a fantastic lens (on par with or exceeding Sigma’s) because then I’d definitely purchase the next generation of A7-like camera.
A 35 1.4 would piss off a lot of 35/2.8 owners off big time. Had we known a 1.4 was coming, we would have waited to see how they compare and how big the 1.4 lens is.
I don’t think it’s a 35/1.4. I think the next prime is an 85/1.8.
I believe that companies have some agreement or something, which doesn’t let them go too far with technology and therefore outshine other companies. In the end it still comes to the money and they get more money by improving technology slowly.
Ah… good to see a conspiracy theory pop up on here.
The most wonderful camera with an incomplete set of mediocre lenses is a mediocre camera.
Thankfully, that’s not what we have here.
If only Sony would make adapter that would use the focus motors on Nikon and Canon cameras they could continue their current path of making cameras and ignoring the lenses and it would make perfect sense. But as it is, I don’t see enough lenses in the new lines to really make me want to embrace the new FE, regardless of how good the body is.
They would have to be SLT adapters unless you’re willing to settle for several seconds to focus still, in which case it’ll just be like Metabones. And those SLT adapters would have to incorporate a lot of reverse engineering because forget licensing from CaNikon.
I just don’t see the problem in making some of the competitor lenses focus at a speed close to the one the Sony focuses at. Especially the Nikon lenses… It shouldn’t require SLT to work, just the right software to determine if the motor turns clockwise or counter and then moves in that direction… I know a canon and nikon have lots of little electronic connections but it can’t be rocket science to figure out which ones do what.
So why Canon and Nikon don’t make these adapters themselves?
That does require SLT because any other focusing system enters CDAF into the equation which is dog slow with CaNikon lenses for hardware (communication chips, gearing and different focus motors required) reasons. See their own bodies using LV with those lenses….
Never going to happen.
“..Sony still struggles to increase market share…”
A big step for Sony would be to update the firmware on existing products regularly. Hard to buy the next gen A6000 when you know that any missteps they may make with it won’t be corrected. I mean, I like my NEX-7, but can’t stand the menu system. If they released an update to the firmware to give the current NEX-7s the ability to use the newer A7 type of menu, it would go a long way towards giving purchasers the confidence to buy their newer products.
I know that they don’t this because they think it gives current owners more incentive to buy the next gen, but I think it backfires, turning new customers away from Sony products.
What has that to do with each other ? those are two different models, lets compare the A58 to the T5 !!!!
admin, where are the spec’s of the A79, please.
Specs of the A79 are the following:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
Does that make sense?
As much as its announced name, the a??. 🙂
Exactly.
A79
1. 24MP COMOS
2. 179 AF no SLT
3. 10 FPS continuos
4. BIONZ X
5. NFC , Wifi
6. Conmpatable with A99 3X battery grip
7. XGA (1024×768) electronic viewfinder
8. Multi interface hotshoe.
9. Mic and headphone jack .
10. Customisable Knob on front like A99
11. New VIDIO options on firmware
12. 5 IBIS (4 f stops )
WHAT!!! you are not waiting for the A80 that will be released 2 months after?
Such a shame, I hear it will make the A79 obsolete.
“No SLT”? You’re too are a believer we’ll ever see an A-Mount mirrorless?
35mm “full frame” video look (before Speedbooster) was introduced by Canon 5D Mark II. Now 4k is introduced by Panasonic. Yes. Innovation.
I think Admin nailed it. Sony released an a6000 which I think most people here thinks is a very good product but what got SAR commenters cranked was the announcement of no broader APS-C system support in the foreseeable roadmap future.
No clear expanded APS-C e-mount lens lineup, for instance. Sure, FE lenses will work but they’re expensive, the zooms have issues, and there’s redundancy as Sony rushes to fill the FE basics. Their flashes have overheating issues and Sony’s solution appears to be to dump the worst one as a bundle deal. Maybe the worst bit is e-mount fans who want an a7000 are experiencing the same cold shoulder a-mount fans have. 🙁
The Betamax fiasco should have taught Sony better engineering alone doesn’t equal success.
That’s one way too look at it. The otter would be that Sony released some of the most innovative cameras, along with one of the best normal primes. Every company has plenty of issues, you just need to choose which ones to suffer through 🙂
You’re right! Sony has put together the best ‘system’ for the many millions of us looking for that particular single lens solution in an interchangeable lens body.
Sorry. Couldn’t resist. 🙂
Seriously, I recognize Sony’s does some things well because I bought into their system in 2011. However, Sony had yet to show me a reason to stay much longer.
Yeah, I know. I see your point.
betamax wasn’t a fiasco at all. it went on to become industry standard for broadcast. it was used all over the world for many years. I’ve used it myself. I’m sure Sony got their r&d money back and ++++.
What is the point to compare A6000 to T5???
They are not in the same class (Mirrorless vs DSLR)
They are not in the same price range (Over $1000 vs less than $500)
They are not targeting for the same audience (advance user vs entry level budget user)
If you want, compare A6000 with Panasonic or FujiFilm.
so you didn’t understand the headline?
It no comparison anywhere, the big difference of these cameras is the whole point!
This speaks to the strength of a robust ecosystem of lenses, accessories & support (firmware updates + repair service) versus and endless parade of camera body releases. Canon can get by on the strength of its system.
While Canon has been making incremental sensory upgrades, they have also been innovating: 1D-X speed & AF system, 600ex-RT flash (built-in radio control – finally!), adding features to older & ne cameras via firmware and the introduction of the cinema series of 4 cameras + lenses.
Also, thanks to Canon’s seeming acceptance of magic lantern tinkering – the 5d3 (and other cameras’) output can be substantially upgraded.
I think that the strength of the ecosystem is only a partial answer, a lot has to see with brand recognition, which, while built on the system, is not the same thing. I also don’t see how Canon’s FW updates are any better and I wouldn’t give them any credit for the Magic Lantern tinkering. Sure, they have innovated, but it is nowhere near what Sony has done lately.
In any case, I am wondering how long can Canon continue the way they are doing right now – not updating sensors, the M-system is being left out completely etc. They are probably the company that can allow themselves to sit on their laurels the longest though, I guess.
When the 5d2 was released, users everywhere asked, petitioned, bugged Canon for 23.98 and 29.97 (it only did 30P) and manual audio recording without automatic gain control (which ruined the audio). About a year after the camera’s announcement & subsequent release, they updated the camera precisely with these features via firmware (and gave the 7d a 59.94 FPS). After the 5d3 was released, they later added the ability to have clean, uncompressed HDMI out and improved AF features:
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/EOS5DM3_firmware
It shows they care about the feature wishes of Existing users.
When the a99 was released, there were howls of complaints about the video quality, the codec, lack of PAL frame rates (the euro version offers both PAL / NTSC options but not the US version) and a host of other firmware requests. No response from Sony. Currently there are a ton of complaints about the overheating f60 flash. No response from Sony. Canon has consistently improved cameras via firmware since the 5d2.
As for Magic Lantern – Canon has not threatened them with a lawsuit and has even stated that warranties are not voided via custom firmware so long as the firmware did not permanently damage the hardware. Source: http://petapixel.com/2013/05/27/will-custom-firmware-void-my-warranty-canon-nikon-and-panasonic-respond/
Sony has set the precedent that they will go after users that modify their software / firmware. When the PS3 was released, it allowed users to install Linux on it. Using the linux option, some users were able to modify it to run home-brew games & software. Sonys response was to wholesale remove the option to install linux (despite originally selling and marketing this feature). They forced users into it by making it so that a user could not log into the network, play online or run some games without the firmware update that deleted the linux feature. That stands in stark contrast to Canon, who is willing to play along with Magic Lantern by not doing anything or making threats (to users or magic lantern coders).
I wonder if Sony has locked down the Multi Interface Hotshoe to prevent third party accessories from using TTL, camera communication or the extra pins. Given that the MIS is spreading throughout the Sony line-up, it’s odd that there is not a single 3rd party accessory on the horizon.
Moderation limbo…
Interesting. Well, Sony did release an update for the original NEX-3 and NEX-5 which included focus peaking. There was also an update for the NEX-7 movie button placement issue. Bracketing was also improved on NEX models. There were quite a few usability updates for both Alpha and NEX systems. All of these were requirements by users. I would still concede the point about Canon being somewhat better in terms of updates, but it’s hardly night and day. We all know how manufacturers cripple cameras, it’s basic business.
For Magic lantern, the fact that Canon is not suing them does not strike me as much of an effort, not to mention that it could happen later on. And your link to Petapixel about Canon’s stance doesn’t show a very pretty picture, imho : “Repairs for a camera that is “bricked” or otherwise having issues directly related to using a third party firmware would not be covered.” Also, I’d say that the Playstation example is a bit far-fetched. First, it is not their camera department (which has actually already released an API for a number of their cameras) and, second, it is well beyond some firmware tinkering, Linux is an entire OS.
As you can see, I am not entirely disagreeing, plenty to be fixed on Sony cameras, but I’ve seen enough cameras and users to think that every brand sucks equally overall 🙂
Moderation limbo here too…
They raise a good point.
Canon is a company that makes cameras which it is accustomed to supporting long term (continued compatibility and support, etc.)
Sony is a company that innovates, and is accustomed to making consumer electronics that have a shorter term life span.
Both strategies are wrong in today’s DSLR/ILC market.
Canon needs to adapt to including more innovative features and technology into their cameras despite the fact the that lifespan of such features may be short.
Sony needs to adapt to being able to sustain and support product lines long term.
i don’t think the key to success is the current strategy used by either company today… but rather each companies ability to adapt a ‘hybrid’ strategy that blends the long term support (of core products/platforms) with the short term advances of innovation.
It’s a challenge.
You are right on the money, sir!
+1
They both need a more centred approached
+1
Anyone here read this?
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/can-you-trust-the-camera.html
Yes, it’s written by a Nikon guy, but Thom’s analysis is valid. No one has, so far, been able to topple the Canon/Nikon duopoly. Sony is the more aggressive at trying, but if this latest barrage of tech (E & FE) doesn’t produce the necessary market share, what’s next? Which system will Sony support long-term, if any?
Yep, I like Thom’s articles. I am wondering though what market share is Sony aiming at. They might not want to necessarily topple Canikon. Whatever the case, this is not something that would happen in a year or two, as some people might think.
I’m sure they would like to be fighting for the number 2 spot, not a distant 3rd. There was a time (mid-90’s) when Sony held number 1 market share in the U.S. in every CE product category in which they participated.
Of course. Bu they do have some goal and it’s be interesting to know what it is. Or some other relevant numbers, not some IDC stuff or the ridiculous Amazon rankings. Really curious about these things.
Their fiscal 2013 ends March 31. Maybe the next Annual Report will give us some clues.
Sony is growing in the mirror-less market which is currently 18% of the interchangeable lens market and growing. They dominate the mirror-less market, and they are expected to have captured over 40% by the end of the year.
In the DSLR market Sony will likely only recapture its previous share which was 13 to 15%. (2008). They have the best technology of the three.
But together (A-Mount, and E-Mount) they will eventually be the market leader in the interchangeable lens camera market.
A-Mount plus E-Mount = Market leader ILC for overall market within five short years.
I wish you were right, but I’m not sure where your numbers are coming from.
In Japan, currently the top market for mirror-less, Sony is doing well but not dominating.
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/bcns-final-japanese-market.html
Don’t get me wrong, I want Sony to succeed but they’ll have to pick a strategy and stick with it.
I see Canon EF Mount dominating the full sized professional mirror-less camera market in the future, and Sony A-Mount coming in second.
I see Sony E-Mount dominating the consumer, enthusiast mirror-less camera segment in the future, with Canon coming in second.
I don’t see Nikon succeeding in the the mirror-less future.
Sorry I meant Olympus coming in second for mirror-less
I see dead people
…
I see that your meds are wearing off.
The grass is always greener.
As Canon user I’m thinking seriously to move to Sony brand. Main reason is Sony offers very high quality light weight and small new cameras and picture quality is very high. Second reason I don’t see new Canon innovative models anymore.
Still Canon and Nikon are full photography systems in Fullframe and APSC.
Sony E mount is not. You will invest in a camera…but will never be happy for next 5 years as Sony is still busy with cameras..instead of lens development.
E mount is still incomplete in 4 years and now the focus is on fullframe.
FE might take another 7 years.
So what is the use of buying a camera if you cannot fully utilize it. In 5-6 years things might be totally different and your investment in E mount might be dud (because of new development in sensor or Lens technology)
More nonsense.
There is a pretty large range of lenses from Sony and 3rd parties for the E-mount. They might not have the lens you want in particular, but the range is large.
Sony have also stated quite clearly they intend to have 15 FE lense available by the end of 2015.
I love it when people pull figures out of their ***.
If they have a decent lens range in the end of 2015, this means that MAYBE in 2016 I may be interested in a FE alpha camera.
Until that moment I will look at other offerings. It is preatty pointless to spend so much money on a camera and then whine for years that you don’t have the right lens for your kind of photography, while there are many other systems out there already more advanced than Sony’s FE will be in 2015.
A good sensor is not everything, guys…
I think you dont know basic photography lenses as there is no lens in Sony E mount collection….
for Portraits (85mm, 135mm)
For Birding (none 250mm+)
For Macro (90mm +..as you need distance to shoot insects)
Few years ago when Canon ruled everyone buried Nikon. Now Canon is building it’s own coffin by doing absolutely nothing to stop Sony taking over the world. WOW Canon, really? Nothing at all???
+1
Agree!
The last innovative Canon was 5DMkII and that was 2009.
Sony is the future
Agreed, but if there’s one company that can allow themselves to wait, without losing too much, that’s Canon.
aaaand sony still have the innovative 2% of the market 🙂
LMFAO
best comment so far 🙂
OLYMPUS is the true innovative company !!!…
I’m not mentioning about Sony VS Canon to avoid argument, but I’m so agree to that Sony SHOULD unveil the clear roadmap, and concentrate more on lenses rather than bodies.
+ 1
If I did it over it would be Canon more than likely. If you want security you go Canon. It’s interesting that many speculate Nikon’s jump to mirrorless will use their existing mount.
The fact is camera makers face a dying market. It just can’t continue on like it has, video won’t save it and most consumers aren’t interested in anything other than their iphones.
I really don’t see how Sony can continue the a-mount. I don’t see how with the competition being were it is and lack of ongoing development it can work. They tried being the cheapest option (a900) and they tried being the most innovative (a99). Didn’t work did it? You have to compete with lens options and pro consumer support. Sony hasn’t done anything to try and challenge Canikon on that front.
If it wasn’t for e-mount success would Sony even be in the camera making business today?
Olympus and Fuji are doing the best to repeat the Canikon formula in their respective formats. Large lens selection..MORE AND MORE LENSES.. a complete system. Oly’s just announced 300mm is one more nail in the coffin for those who say M43’rds can’t compete.
If making the smallest possible camera is the point Sony should dump APS-C altogether and go M4/3s. 🙂
Sony a6000 nice tech but doesn’t seem to fix basic problem of NEX cameras handling sucks for many. Maybe Sony can slim down their bodies through innovation like mirrorless. The point of cameras like Fuji X-T1 isn’t just ‘retro’ to look pretty but SLR style handles better.
If Sony developed a M43 system I’d be all in. The e-mount line up doesn’t make sense to me. I handle heavy lenses and have no desire for a camera with inferior ergonomics all in the name of fashionable consumption.
If you want small you go small- period. M43rds is awesome, fast, light and tons of high quality as well as relatively cheap lenses (depending).
Sure, Sony, already a money loser with its mirrorless, is going to spend tens of millions of dollars it doesn’t have to tool up to enter yet another money losing mirrorless space. What is its motivation to enter a segment where it is not the market leader, is facing severe pricing pressure, is shrinking, and would be just another commodity vendor like the other two money losers in that space? Sony already has growth-stunted lines in four segments, sure, let’s enter another one: Not only will we give credence to flagging competitors, but we stand to lose even more money even faster!
Fact check:
Sony is earning money with mirrorless cameras, not losing. They are losing elsewhere.
Sony is currently market leader worldwide in mirrorless cameras, unless you combine Olympus and Panasonic.
The latest CIPA (december) figures show that in value, the mirrorless market shrunk less in value than the DSLR market over 2013 and the last month showed serious growth compared to the year before (in numbers and value), where the DSLR market was still shrinking.
Back to your lacking Fingerspitzengefühl.
Canon and Nikon need to start intensive development (if they haven’t already) of high end mirror less cameras. Look at the focusing and tracking speed of the Sony A6000 (11 FPS focusing and tracking each frame), granted it’s a APS-C sensor but the hardware (image and data processing) to apply this ‘on sensor’ PDAF focusing technology to a full frame sensor is likely only a year away. In fact I would not be surprised to see this used on Sony’s future A-Mount cameras expected in 2014.
When this transition happens it will be like the switchover from CRT Television to flat screen technology, the entire industry will be switched over to the newer tech in a year or two. Any player who is not ready with product will be left for dead.
Why do they need to do that?
They are already profitable, they already have mirrorless lines that in the mirrorless world are respectable sellers- arguably greater than Panasonic and Fuji.
Why should they spend tens of millions of dollars to ‘innovate’ instead of reducing costs by curtailing R&D thereby enhancing the bottom line? In the long run that may hurt them, but in the short and medium run Canon and Nikon stand to be the last manufacturers standing. Then they can innovate (or not) at their leisure.
Innovation is over-rated. The little guys can innovate themselves into bankruptcy. Meantime, Canon and Nikon sell good products that people BUY.
So much of what passes for ‘innovation’ in this space is just marketing featurism, in which tiny differences in secondary features are trumped up to get us to spend thousands more. When any camera from any vendor today can take wonderfully good pictures. They are all good enough.
Fool need big lens system,but has not enough money to buy all and can’t take it for tour.
Innovation? Yes. Support and commitment to the products she release? Hell no! the camera market is going down given the current trend and let’s see who will survive in the very end. Panasonic and Olympics are not looking good at the moment in terms of market share.
I agree, Con T5 has the very old Digic 4 chip, there is no way I can understand Canon, or they’re super cheap to put pretty old digic 5 chip in their entry level camera.
Regarding Sony, I’m happy with Sony techonoly, but I’n not with customer service and their strategy. They need to have a professional hot line to treat professional differently like Canikon, their Lerado center is basically a ‘replace’ center, not fixing anything.their strategy on naming their products, categorizing products, relasing firmware really SUCKS!
If Sony wishes to gain consumer confidence, then I completely agree with the admin in that they need to take a page out of Fuji’s book and publish their A/E mount roadmap. Since the enthusiasts and pros are the ones most concerned about camera system investment, and those are the ones that would continue to give Sony money versus consumers, who would stop at their first purchase and maybe a lens or two at most, I feel it’s wise to take these steps.
They wouldn’t even have to give up any true details about their short and long-term product goals, but just to tell us that their intending to bring out a fast aperture prime or zoom within a given year at some focal length would be plenty for me. Enough that I could see down the road where their investments lie and whether I should continue on one system or another.
I totally understand how important it is to keep a level of secrecy in such a competitive market, which is why I don’t also think they need to necessarily give out too much information.
How ever small Sony’s piece of camera cake might be, they make their money with selling sensors. Especially in the mobile market, Sony’s sensors are one of the best (eg. iPhone). We all know Nikon brought one, Hasselblad too. Don’t mention the cooperations and custom builds. For this market, Sony has to innovate. There’re a lot of people who don’t know that they’re using Sony technology. And sometimes they bring out a new camera with a Sony brand. But this is only the small piece of the cake.
Read this: An Open Letter to Canon by a (Soon-to-Be Former) Customer
http://www.slrlounge.com/open-letter-canon
I’m sure Canon makes more money with its old fashioned T5, than Sony with its super innovative A6000. And that’s what counts.
I’m not stating this as fact, I’m simply wondering out loud so I’d be interested to hear opinions.
And THINK about this before answering…
Does sharing a roadmap help or hurt sales?
I think it COULD be argued (and I’m not saying I’m making that argument) that releasing a roadmap could keep people from buying what’s available TODAY in favor of what they think they want in the future. Additionally, knowing something is coming allows time for the impulse to buy to dissipate leaving little impulsivity and an overabundance of rational thought (the enemies of purchases).
This site is made up of enthusiasts who think about system longevity more than the average buyer and for them, a roadmap makes sense IF the desire is to instill confidence. But for the average Joe (which Sony NEEDS TONS OF), they’re likely less interested in being assured of system longevity because they really don’t think that the system crashing and burning is an actual option. Right?
What say you?
There’s no way it can hurt sales. People who care and are invested, will be interested. People who just want a camera will listen to friends suggestions and marketing.
I do think the “voice” of the average poster here, does not at all speak for the majority of photographers, “pro” or amateur. “I need this system to last me 50 years!” The only thing that needs to last that long are heirlooms and jewelry. A camera is a tool you should be using now, in the moment. You’re gonna want and should want a new camera with new better, smaller, faster lenses in 5 years, let alone the decades some of this posters talk about. Digital cameras are not like film cameras and never will be, so get over it.
More people than ever in the history of photography ARE photographers. That’s just how technology works. The tools may change, but billions of people, and with only more to come in the future, will want to take pictures. Just because there’s not massive continued growth, doesn’t mean a business is “dying.” Many industries, do just fine sustaining the customers they already have. Shareholders might not like it, but it’s fact.
I have Sony A7 it works with adapter with Canon,Nikon,Leica,Voigtlander lenses.With Sony A mount lenses and LA EA4 adapter it works like Sony A99. E mount full frame lenses are Rokinon 14mm,24mm,35mm(sharp like CZ),Sony CZ Sonnar 35mm f2,8, Sony CZ Sonnar 55mm F1,8 (one of the best lenses ever tested by dxomark, score 42),Sony kit lens 28-70,Sony CZ 24-70f4,Sony CZ 70-200 f4.For Sport and Wildlife are specialized full frame DSLR. Why is an innovator so bad?
I must admit that I love photography and our beautiful world. I am grateful for the overall state of affairs that we enjoy in the photography world. We have a wonderful degree of choice. I recently went through all of my landscape shoots I have taken since 2009. I was left with the impression of all of the nice images I have taken even with the a300 and the a700. Then came the a55 for me. I think even if I had continued to use just those cameras I could still produce good work (I still have an a700). But I have purchased many other cameras and lens since then. Overall I think that I will retreat to a two year cycle of camera purchases and the lens purchases will be done carefully. While I would love to have an a7r I think the second generation camera would be fine to wait for. My current gear is just fine. I am sure that camera companies have the tech to give us an amazing camera but their marketing plans and greed will never allow that camera to be released. I am sure one of their planning discussions is related to the question, “How can we continue to get people to upgrade their camera every year?” I am tired of being led along to buy the next great thing which is just a little better than the current model. So I am very interested in getting better support for my past and current camera models. Dear Sony you are going to get less of my money. I do not like yours or any other camera companies business and marketing models.
I see what you’re saying, but that’s pretty much how all products are. Yearly refreshes get small tweaks and every once in a while a new feature or incorporated technology allows that year’s refresh to be special.
My A77 is buggering around with lots of “Camera Errors” and needs replacing probably. I was going to wait to see about the A79 but Sony’s fecked up UK pricing for the A6000 has me worried I won’t be able to afford one 🙁
Amazon.com – $648
Amazon.co.uk – £665
The pound hit a 2 year high against the dollar today – £1 = $1.65
So what are my choices as a backup during repair or a replacement for the A77?
A7 and very cheap glass? (probably my existing old zuiko lenses) NEX6? A58?
If Sony UK prices were comparable to those in the US, as they were when I bought the A77, it would be much easier!
(sorry – bit of an off topic rant)
Here at SAR (Sony Alpha Rants), all rants are welcome 😀
the uk amazon prices are pretty good.
Pricing can sometimes seem unfair in the UK, but for your information the A6000 is available directly from Sony in the UK for £589.
Also, the direct comparison with US pricing does not take into account the additional State taxes that are applied depending on where you live in the US.
Wait for the cheapest airfare you can find and take a shopping holiday for a day. It’s a short trip from London to NY and you can go to B&H.
Or I can order what you want online and ship it to you for a 10% commission. I’ll open the boxes and ship those separately of you wish.
Over compressed proprietary RAW files and AVCHD video (compared to Canon RAW and Canon H264 video)are Sony’s Achilles heel.
well , I´m a fan of sony cameras, but in amazon the canon rebels sell like hotcakes somehow, I guess brand recognition is stronger then innovation.
What I hear and see with my friends/family/colleagues is that the perception of most people is: big camera = professional; small(er) camera = cheap & poor quality.
It is like when I was working as a student in computer shop, people had no clue what kind of pc they were buying, but the most important was that it had a nice computer case.
I bet that when you put this 1200D next to a A7R, most people will point at the Canon, as being the more expensive and better camera.
It is all about the box, unfortunately.
Size and brand name, yes.
“I guess brand recognition is stronger then innovation.”
–Hi, I want to buy a camera, what do you have?
–We have a Nikon and a Canon and a Sony.
–Which takes the best pictures?
–They all do.
–Which is the easiest to use?
–They all are.
–Which are the most popular?
–Nikon and Canon
–If I change my mind in a year and want to sell it, which has the best resale value?
–Nikon and Canon.
–Which are the cheapest?
–Nikon and Canon.
–I’ll take a Nikon or Canon.
Our conclusion must only be that brand recognition is stronger than “innovation”
-ok I will take the Sony.
-good choice.
-which set of lenses do you have with it.
-we have few but next year we’re gonna INNOVATE and announce a lot.
-what I’m gonna shoot with.
-hey we have overpriced Zeiss, but TBH they’re not the same IQ with what they made to Leica.
-what about flashes.
-we have one that rotates, and it should be good because it’s huge.
-so no small ones to go with the INNOVATION of A7/R.
-not yet but we will announce soon.
-any other accessories like, intervalometer.
-…….
-what accessories do you have.
-we have adapters, so you can mount old manual lenses and look cool.
I am a canon user with a 5DII and I am considering to buy a A6000 once it gets in stock. I can’t agree more.
1.8 85 mm OSS, please sony
+1000
being innovative is good but obviously not enough. Minolta were innovative but still ended up selling the camera business to Sony. Sony are innovative, only question left is whether they have figured out where Minolta went wrong.
and please don’t tell me anyone is comparing the A6000 and the 1200D or T5 or whatever? Comparing an almost-top-of-the-line-model to a model only meant to rehash and get the last penny out of old tech by selling as a level below the former entry-level? The A6000 seems to be somewhere around the 70D level and should compare nicely.
come to think of it, the sensor in the 70D was pretty innovative. wonder what that will do to the market when put to good use in mirrorless cameras? the EOS-M needs a follow-up and hopefully the high-performing mirrorless cameras from Sony and others will get Canon going. Or not.
sorry, I’m somewhat off topic here…
Even if you compare the 1200D to the A5000, the advantage of the Sony is still obvious. Size, sensor performance, and price are all in the A5000’s favor.
The 70d’s sensor lags a few paces behind the current crop of Sony cameras. I’ve shot with a 70d before and I can assume you, output quality has no distinct advantage over the 7d, which is about two stops behind the NEX-6 in DR and high iso output quality. In short, Canon made a 60d with faster Live view AF.
“They should create confidence by releasing more “mature” products and deliver a better support too.”
That’s why Canon released what they did … at a lower price point.
Maybe compare the A6000 and the Canon 100D?
Dear Sony: Happy Valentines day!
Even though you kept cheating on me with that dirty whore “e-mount” all year I still love you. I guess we’ll just have to be one of those swinger couples and get used to it. Maybe instead of cutting up my flowers this year you could at least sniff them first. Here’s to another year of back stabbing and dirty looks.
Yours Truly,
A-mount user
It’s a good time to think past fan-boy-ism and seriously consider what Sony has accomplished and too, wonder why Canon and Nikon seem, apparently, reluctant to follow the small camera, EVF, high performance concept. Are they incapable of building smaller cameras without mirror boxes -I doubt it. I would guess that they wish to skip the entire tiny EVF market and develop a camera that looks a lot like a cell phone (iPhone maybe) but with the spectacular performance that they are certainly capable of incorporating in a very, very compact design. That certainly would be impressive innovation. And, is Sony itself moving that way through their constant innovation? -rumor has Sony building the camera system for the iPhone 6. Yes, Canon and Nikon seem stuck in the mud at the moment but certainly they aren’t going to throw away their reputations cranking out mirror boxes in different colors, peddling to mass culture -I hope not or they will go the way of Kodak.
Sony is doing a lot of product churn. It throws new products against the wall to see what sticks.
This is what we call ‘innovation.’
Speaking from a point of view of in the process of changing system, I started shooting Sony several years ago.. A100 through the A850, I have made photography my business, I felt at the time that Sony did not offer the support I wanted to step up to this level… In short I moved to Canon 7d,5d3 and L glass… I have been shooting Canon for a couple of years now and must say I have missed the results I had with Sony and the fact that there is some really good Minolta glass.. So in the last couple of weeks I have decided to make the move back to Sony.. I picked up a A77 and a couple of lenses, the main things that brought me back is DR,Color, and I really like having the articulating lcd, I shoot a lot of car shows and being able to more easily get angled shoot make a big difference to me.. I won’t bash any brand they all have things to offer, it all depends on you and what your needs are..
My 2 cents
Kodak , Nokia died and next may be Nikon . They have nothing to lose with video , but they do nothing with this . Everything change people want all in one , not just only still , video too .
Yes, innovation is needed but more than that, Sony needs to have a vision.
They had it with NEX. A small interchangeable lens camera with DSLR image quality. There, easy to explain even to my mom.
But just compare the NEX-7 to the original iPhone; Both of them were ahead of their time, truly innovative, but not without their flaws. Both where too expensive and as a result Apple unexpectedly dropped the price of the iPhone with $200 after 66 days of it’s release. With iOS updates Apple kept refining the experience and added much needed features. The original iPhone received firmware updates until iOS version 3.1.3. Apple has also upgraded the hardware every year, even though the core experience hasn’t changed almost at all. The original dock connector served Apple’s portable products for ten years before it was replaced by the Lightning connector. What did Sony do with the NEX-7, since it was released in 2011?
FYI my original iPhone still works perfectly, but that hasn’t stopped me from buying a new iPhone every second year.
Sony needs to decide what they are going to do and follow that decision longer than six months.
Sony needs to also innovate on the lens department. Lack of a complete AF lens line up hurt this system.
Comparing a dslr and a mirrorless with evf (not even a rangefinder) camera in terms of size isn’t fair. Physically the mirror and prism in a dslr will always add more bulk…. of course with the inherent advantage of optical advantage also.
But you are spot on with regard to the snail pace of innovation by the 2 market leaders; Canon and Nikon. Obviously, it is not in their strategic interest to shake things up too much/fast too soon. The burden is on Sony to catch up to them to survive and be counted in the industry.
Sony is doing a good job trying, but as many here pointed out, it has to be more focused and consistent in its offering and somehow shake the image of it being another consumer electronic company rather than a serious camera/photography company. It needs to shake off this public perception and prove itself a worthy successor to the 2.
Who makes the best ultimate DSLR? Sony vs Canon Nikon is not happening. They totally have different priorities. Sony makes good amateur cameras for enthusiasts, while the big two ( yes two, not three) cater to the pro market first and then amateurs. Different approach. Sony is remarkable no doubt.
Well said.
Yes, Nikon and Canon cater to the “pro market.” That’s why they are the king of the enthusiast segment with numbers Sony could only dream about.
Sony’s A7r – shutter blur
Sony’s A7r and A7 and every camera Sony’s ever made – lossy compression and not true 14 bit color as advertised.
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2014/20140214_1-SonyA7-artifacts-star-trails.html
I can assure you that it is true.
Here is an idea for Sony:
Stop shaking the industry so much and build predictable (roadmap!) system.
Too late for me but others may buy it.
That’s exactly my problem since I decided to buy the A7.
I want small flash to go with it
Sony dealer…. sorry we don’t have
I want an extra battery
Sony dealer…. sorry we don’t have
I want a wall charger
Sony dealer…. sorry we don’t have
I want an intervalometer
Sony dealer…. sorry we don’t have
Good story but there’s a wall charger, small flash, extra battery, etc.
But the truth behiond is that this is the core of Sonys main problem in camera business: bad marketing combined with uninterested sales people in the shops…
Here in the Nuremberg area we have three “real” photo shops and of course the outlets of the big electronic super markets.
Only one shop has real interest in selling Sony products (and trained sales people and from time to time support from Sony), the second one has Sony but only the boss knows a little about the Sony cameras and the third one is totally oriented to pro’s (no shop but more like an office) and has Sony only on order. The outlets have some Sony SLTs on open display besides the Rebels/xxD and D3/5/7xxx but most times without battery (okay, I can understand that a little bit…) but no sales people that know anything about the Sony cameras.
Constant innovation is good, and it’s great to see Sony pushing the envelope on an otherwise very stagnant and conservative camera market…BUT…I’d rather see them devote more resources into properly building their photo division.
They release a lot of nice products that are at times just a few steps from being great. Awesome hardware hindered by firmware glitches and deliberate feature omissions. High shooting FPS capabilities mated with comically small buffers. Zero continuity in their product lines. Complete lack of interest in supporting their hardware already on the market. Pricing their products higher than competing market leaders. Lack of any type of professional support ecosystem. Horrible 3rd party support. Incomplete / broken flash system.
I’m heavily invested in Minolta / Sony gear and I’d like to see them succeed if for no other reason than to push other manufacturers hands in features and innovation. It’s just a bit heartbreaking that my brand loyalty will almost certainly mean that I will never own a well thought out / complete professional grade system. I can get pieces here and there, but zero commitment from Sony = zero confidence from me.
Once my current Nex5 / a77 / a99 equipment croak it’s on to another manufacturer unless Sony can demonstrate that they can get at least ONE of the above point addressed.
Firmware glitches? Could you give me an example?
The A7 can shoot a full 34 RAW+Jpeg files before it hits the buffer. Guess how many can the D610 take? 18. My NEX-7’s buffer is much deeper and clears much faster than both the X-pro1 and the X-E1, and at least in terms of size no smaller than the buffer of the EM5. So I’d say Sony has always been industry-leading.
And you complain about Sony’s legacy support, yet Sony provides options to use ALL minolta lenses at full capability, with every single Sony body on the market. I can put a minolta 135mm from the early 90s onto my 2013 body. What more support can you ask for? With an adapter I can use my minolta flashes on the A7 with all functions intact, so I’ve yet to buy any of Sony’s new flashes.
Hideously slow a77 operation until a firmware release made the camera more usable. NEX5 getting crucified at launch by every review site on the internet due to almost unusable interface (again fixed by firmware). Those are the first two that popped into my head as I saw them firsthand.
My a77 can shoot up to 12FPS, buffer fills at a bit over a second. Not sure about my a99, but it shoots much lower FPS and still hits the buffer wall way too soon. The a77 and a99 were marketed as flagship products of their APSC and FF lines. Flagship models from the others don’t have this issue (D800E, D7100, 5DMIII, 70D), and the D610 was introduced as a BUDGET FF camera so why even bring it into the comparison? I have zero concerns / worries / interest in the E mount stuff. None. I’m talking about the cameras they marketed directly at the serious amateur / professional markets which seriously lack in some small way or the other.
I made ZERO mention of legacy support – perhaps you inferred that by my semi-complaint about forgetting their existing customers who’ve already invested into their system by dropping everything for the newest product (See A mount put in the trunk E mount, E mount relegated to the backseat for FE, etc.)
They don’t have that issue? The D7100 jpeg buffer depth is smaller, despite being quite a bit newer. RAW buffer depth is about a third (!) of the A77 RAW buffer depth. 70D RAW buffer depth is about the same as the A77’s. Both the D800 and D7100 are significantly slower to focus than the A77 and A99.
What’s the deal with this website hating Canon that much. Well Canon innovated the electronic lens mount when they introduced the EOS system, of course other companies had no idea what the hell was that, for me that’s INNOVATION, and they did pretty well since then and YES they conquered the market. I don’t see any real “Innovation” since I bought my A7, it’s pretty good size camera but I’m still looking for the perfect set of lenses that will solve the trashy corners, till now I’m shooting only with an FD 50mm 1.4 as the kit lens that I got is a real humiliation to Sony, and yes it’s the crappiest kit lens that I owned comparing to my Canons and Nikons.
I tried to shoot architecture with my A7 the other day, I did what ever it takes to get the perfect technical pictures (All f numbers and all focal lengths) and the results was CRAP when I saw the files on my computer.
Yeah Admin, please tell me more about INNOVATION.
You sir, need to learn photography.
I’ve shot gigs with my A7(s), music performances, reportage, macro, still life, with Canon, Leica and Sony lenses. I’ve yet to see a single shot that failed because of the camera.
Too many whiners and too few photographers here.
I’m sorry if I your feeling by whining about your company Mr. Sony CEO. I will trash Sony whenever I want, as long as I use their product.
and true I am not a photographer, I’m an architect and if you want go write a letter to Sony asking them not to sell me more products.
hey fanboy, teach me photography please, non of your subjects are architectural photography and if I shoot your gigs I would never care about the corners either.
Ahmad, I agree. The naive observer will see Sony as an innovator, the experienced will cringe at the corners they have cut. Here is a list of things that block me buying these new Sony cams:
1 Irreversible design error: mount too small to use 135 lenses without corner issues
2 Irreversible design error: various software fixes to make up for 2, which smudge the end results
3 Bug: shutter shock
4 Design error: dubious quality viewfinders, the A7 is a little better but the court is still out
5 Design error: Crappy AF
6 Bug: reflections on sensor with high contrast shots
7 Design error: Shitty menus
8 Marketing error: practically no fitting (small) lenses available
9 Marketing error: model palette keeps changing, current user base may feel frustrated
10 Cheapskate error: serious quality issues in various Sony electronic products call for cautiousness
The Canon and Nikon systems, thanks God, respect their customers and avoid this sort of “innovations”. Their products just work, no bullshit. Yes, DSLRs are a little larger; but they deliver. Do you need small? There are good small offers from C&N, too.
At the end, “innovation” for the sake of it is just marketing: there is always a lie behind.
I’ll add one if you don’t mind
Design error: shitty battery life, turn of all in camera processes and even then, good luck with long exposure photography.
okay – battery life is a bit of concern, not problem: I do a lot of concert shootings and also making-of-shootings during beauty shootings and the like with an A65.
GPS is on (because I want the correct time… 🙂 🙂 where I’ve been I normally know 🙂 🙂 ), Display is off, EVF switched to “automatic”, quality to “RAW”, standby time to 5 minutes. One battery lasts for around 800…1000 pictures and not the advertised around 550 pictures.
Of course I always have at least to spare batteries in the pocket together with at least two 32 GB SD cards…
And I have a third party battery charger that can be used with 12V or 24V from cars and trucks…
Bollox indeed. Your first point already shows irreversible brain malfunctioning. The mount is larger than both the Leica and Nikon mounts. Corners are only an issue with certain symmetrical wide angle lenses, those that have issues with all digital sensors.
The whole list is mostly a list based on hearsay, copy paste from claims from other people and still you managed to misquote them too.
YES!!!
My conclusion is that Sony has great ideas, features and technologies but that doesn’t translate into best possible products.
Maybe they are doing the wrong compromises and failing to create the ultimate experience that customers are looking for.
Having the world’s best sensor doesn’t mean much because customer are not buying a sensor, they are buying a camera with lenses, accessories and support.
where is my last post ? is it because i did not complain about sony or about admin it was removed :D?
AND WHAT IS THE INNOVATION?
2014 not to be ashamed to sell a pice of crapp
with a codec taht is AWFULL… okay.
this is 199,- usd$ CAMERA a trashshit for consumers.
and
CANON makes the same BULSHIT with ex-cloned 550 from 2009
DO YOU COPPY?
OUT
As both the Canon Rebel and the A6000 are geared towards beginners neither are exciting for those who love tons of manual control –
The fact that Canon is still selling the Rebel like hotcakes means that there is something about it that consumers like –
I think both cameras do well in producing good IQ for the money – the key to me now days is size and weight – So of course the Sony A6000 is more appealing – and it still has a nice grip –
I also like the Artistic affects in the Sony –
For those with large hands the Canon might be a better option – and of course many prefer an optical viewfinder –
So there are benefits to both –
The biggest advantage for the Rebel line is that there are a lot more lenses !
Also the lenses are cheaper – Canon 50mm F1.8 is about $100 – the Sony $298 !!!
what gives –
So Sony can only blame them selves – so another clear reason why the Canon Rebel line is so popular –
I do own the NEX5n and NEX7 – and yes the IQ is nice etc. but also many faults –
but the biggest issue is lenses and lens prices
The Rebels (and the Nikon D3xxx) are not bought by beginners but by those people believing everything in advertising and marketing – they see all those sports pros using Canons and most of the beauty and portrait pros using Nikon and think “if I buy a Canikon I can do that too – my only problem will be to get such a beautiful model…”
Most beginners I know started with either something from xxxD line or the D5xxx line… Sad enough that I know only one beginner here in Nuremberg who bought a Axx…
As I always say: the biggest Sony problem in the camera business is its bloody bad marketing!
sorry, of course I meant the xxD line and not the xxxD
And who are these “nofilmschool” anyway?
A negative title to start with (digital fanboys no doubt hung up on technology more than photography)
Look it’s like this, Sony can innovate, but are very poor at looking after their own customers (people who have paid to buy their products) they don’t support them with firmware fixes, they keep changing direction all the time.
Read the latest Thom Hogan article on Sony’s all over the place approach.
So frankly what “nofilmschool” thinks matter not one bit. People buy what they want to and what they like.
Canon might be dull, but they have a lot of stuff out there and they are safe many people want that. Who’d want to be using A mount with the way Sony are? Not many