BBC reports that “Sony, has had its credit rating cut to junk status by ratings agency Moody’s.“. The current critical financial situation has little to do with the camera business. Their weak point is the TV and PC business. And:
The ratings agency said that while Sony had taken steps to cut costs and improve profitability, the benefits of those steps were emerging “slowly” and its key segments “seem unlikely to soon regain the robust profit levels seen historically”.
As usual with rating systems, take them with a grain of salt. Sony’s difficult situation is not a real news yet and I am pretty confident they will recover from that situation. Just to say that I am not worried at all 🙂
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It doesn’t help anything!
Boo hoo.
Old news: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-22/sony-panasonic-credit-rating-cut-to-speculative-grade.html
Like, really old news.
P.S. If you buy cameras based on 3-month credit rating forecasts, you should buy a Samsung.
Ah, Moody’s…. One of the major cause for the big financial crisis started in 2008 and not yet finished.
They probably have somebody sitting in an big chair aiming to something personal and lucrative as usual.
Well, it might be considered “personal” if the facts about Sony would be different. But they facts are that they’re loosing money on almost every front, while their two largest branches are rapidly shrinking.
Large investment in NEXes for a cost of A-mount doesn’t help either, especially when mirrorless market is also shrinking in a threatening speed with no signs for recovery (even though 2013 was a brilliant year for mirrorless gear-wise), while DSLR market either stays the same, or shrinks in much, much lower rate, and at the same time it’s enormous comparing to mirrorless.
Sony got itself in really huge trouble. Hope that Andrea’s news about 2014 being A-mount year are truth – but even that won’t be enough to stop collapse of Compact camera market, where Sony is huge (fact that it’s a major part of Imaging division doesn’t help them either).
Well, you might be right but my intention was to just pointing out that those “people” (moody’s, Standard&Poor’s, etc etc etc) are not saints, not at all.
And like they downgraded nations for just pure banks’ interests (and create troubles and problems for the ordinary people), they might play the same game with companies like Sony, Samsung, Nikon etc etc etc.
I’m not worried about it, since it’s an old news and we’re talking about apples and oranges: tv/laptops vs. camera division.
Anyway, we’ll see.
Take care.
You express such strong conviction, I must presume you have the financial expertise to back up your accusations against Moody’s. I could say I look forward to your detailed critique of their report on Sony, but this is not the proper forum for that. This is a Web site for the discussion of photography, so let’s focus on cameras and the exciting new gear Sony has in store for us this coming year…
I don’t doubt sony is having problems. Only time will tell how this and the changing camera market will effect sony and it’s business model. Everyone here is just guessing.
But defending Moody’s is shaky ground. You don’t need financial expertise to know about the multiple scandals Moody’s has been involved in over the last 5-7 years.
http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-last-mystery-of-the-financial-crisis-20130619
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/aug/22/ratings-agencies-conflict-of-interest
http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/05/10/the-moodys-scandal-takes-its-toll/
http://www.small-business-goldmine.com/credit-ratings.html
“You express such strong conviction, I must presume you have the financial expertise to back up your accusations against Moody’s. I could say I look forward to your detailed critique of their report on Sony, but this is not the proper forum for that”
I will never understand why people always have to attack others expressing their opinion and asking for some sort of “evidence” every time; like “I expect to see your work to judge if you’re a real photographer”.
You presume wrong, I’m not a financial expert or guru and it’s quite simple to find out about Moody’s: help yourself with Google.
It was all over the newspapers (at least where I live) and some extra info about some supposed to be neutral people never hurts.
I think it’s good to talk about it.
I think the only one, here, with the power to say “let’s cut with this crap” is the Admin.
It’s a blog about photography, I agree, and as a Sony user I’m looking forward for some news as well since it looks like the only one with nuts big enough to innovate is Sony, lately.
I hope we’re gonna have a good time and we’ll keep having good time with our gears (whatever brand is).
Having said that, I wish you a good evening.
Hahaha. And how about you explain why Moody’s are right? Or is that by default? Photography proper has never been the main focus of this website, but rather specifically photography gear and, by extension, the manufacturers of said gear. The post is about finances and yet you are surprised that people are discussing this in the comments? Get off your high horse.
Imagine a world where everyone cares of his own crap.
I’d be worried if I owned any Sony camera equipment. Very worried. Rip A mount.
RIP A mount, RIP E mount, long live RX and QX!
Go buy some Facebook stock then.
Really, worried? I own a Sony NEX 7 and Im not worried at all. Sony could go out of business TODAY and shut down everything and it wouldnt effect me at all. I would just go out and shoot more photos with my NEX 7. Like these.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8539414@N07/sets/72157629936411965/
I would shoot until it breaks and then buy another used one, or a used NEX 6 or maybe a Fuji XE1 or something. The camera was designed as a disposable item and I bought it knowing that. I made sure to invest the majority of my photographic budget in quality old manual focus lens that have already stood the test of time. Minolta, Yashica, M42…thats where you put your money. Companies come and go, bodies come and go, but lenses can last a lifetime.
This is of course coming from an advanced amateur/enthusiast point of view. If I were a pro with a stable of bodies and A mount lenses then I might be a little apprehensive. But the fact still stands that if Sony goes tits up today all those A99’s are still capable of taking great photos. Yes, repairs would become an issue, but if you are a pro photographer concerned about gear repairs then you probably researched and already know that Sony has never matched Canon or Nikon on their professional support. So keep your gear until it fails years down the road and either buy other used pieces or move to a new brand. Plan that into your business model.
Is that an ideal situation? Of course not. But its simply the way of the world. I am a photographer first and foremost, not a ‘Sony’ camera user or a ‘Canon’ camera user. I will use what I need to take great photos. Gear changes but the search for the image remains.
“pro with a stable of bodies and A mount lenses”…
Not a whole lot of those in this world unfortunately.
http://www.pbase.com/lou_giroud/nex7_lens_tests
Sad to see Sony is not doing well. Even Nintendo is worth more than Sony which I don’t understand. Nintendo only sells gaming consoles while Sony sells so much more, tv/phone/audio/camera/laptop and they have Sony Pictures where breaking bad came from … and the PS4 is selling like crazy.
If they can’t make a profit then maybe they should go bankrupt.
Nintendo sells a lot of systems & games not to mention all those extras they sell for the wii. At one point the wii out sold the ps3 and 360 combined or something close to that. They have been around forever and my nintendo I had as a kid still works.They make quality products and don’t rush things to market. There is always some kind of delay with nintendo because they want to fix something. There new system is not doing so hot but I am not surprised that they would be worth more than sony.
What about their insurance business then???
Can someone explain to me how did Sony’s TV business went downhill?
Seriously, I’d like to know that. Just as a piece of information 🙂
I know they had lots of quality control issues with the TV’s after the tsunami, but I thought they were back on track now…
But AFAIK the TV business wasn’t doing so well even BEFORE the Tsunami.
I know that Samsung ate a large share of that market but, still…. is it only because of the price difference (Samsungs and LGs are cheaper -at least here in my country)?
Just an assumption, but they seem to have lost a war of financial attrition against Samsung and LG in the TV market.
Sony invested massively in glass tube manufacture right before LCD and plasma panels became popular. They made some of the most awesome tube HDTV’s imaginable, but it cost 5X more to ship said TV than a plasma or LCD panel, which soon superseded the tubes in quality of image.
Sony then didn’t have a factory capable of catching up to Samsung, and they have been behind the curve ever since.
Bad business decision, a little bit like Kodak, then?
Like, Kodak had the know-how on digital sensor (even fullframe sensor) but decided not to invest heavily on it. Until it was too late.
And Sony had the resources and know-how to invest in a new technollogy (Plasma/LCD/LED) but decided not to? Is that it?
That’s not the whole story. Major issue was quality to price. Their new-tech TVs weren’t any better than competition while they were priced much higher.
Sony keeps on repeating the same mistake in every branch – they think that their a “premium”-grade company and for that alone they can charge more money for their products. Well – no they can’t, not when Samsung got such a great PR and a prices MUCH lower than Sony.
Exactly, in most business they price and act as if they were a premium product company but really don’t offer more than other companies do at a much lower price point. Sony is not a prestige name in consumer electronics but in their mind it is.
Well, for years they were a premium brand. Only it was over a decade ago, yet still management can’t see the difference.
Agree, and still doing same thing. Unfortunately, if you want peace of market, you should have your price below competition. Check A mount, recently FF camera pricing. While others (CANON) drop their price on FF, Sony still keeps price of A99 extremely high.
Management must understand, not everyone wants battery grip and flash while spending more than 3K on a camera. Lower the price, get people buy into the brand, and later they will buy accessories. In parallel, don’t keep overcharging for accessories as well, when you start with the system, educated buyer will have all facts on a table before making decision, wake up Sony.
They lost TV business, they keep loosing on all fronts related to Video, as well as Audio products.
For years I’ve been monitoring price on few Sony products (just curiosity), mainly audio. They keep same approach (extremely high price) even when no one wants to buy it.
How to explain that in Canada (Ontario), Sony Store has the highest price for Sony products. Their explanation is: “Other retailers can offer lower price because they sell more?????” Hello Sony!! we’re talking about your products in your stores, how come others can offer lower price after they buy from you??? No wonder they closed quite few stores in Ontario in last couple years.
Reality and perception are not always the same thing. Under Hirai, Sony is proceeding with a more reasonable pricing policy and accelerating introduction of higher technology consumer goods into the market. The 7 series are reasonably priced. The lenses, except for the 70-200G2, are in the ballpark, pricewise, with other manufacturers. The PS4 is cheaper than the xbox one, their new phones are more than competitive, they are among the first to introduce a high quality consumer 4k video camera. Things are changing. It’s still not great, but I expect improvement in the future.
Look at Samsung. They were flying high a few months ago. Now, they are experiencing market share erosion as well as a rising won. When Chinese manufacturing costs begin to rise (they must, as workers clamour for better wages), the market will shift again.
What companies need is vision. I can say that Sony, in the imaging field, is at least doing an interesting job in coming out with products that are unexpected. Many are compelling. The technology for some of the products are still in the nascent stages, but they have a chance to do better once their brand becomes synonymous with innovation once again.
Sony 500mm f/4 G = $13,000
Nikon 500mm f/4G VR = $8000
That’s reality not perception 😉
The 7 series is new, and E mount lenses are not widely available. I understand that any lens can be used, but not all clients want to use adapters. A mount, as you said majority of lenses are in the ballpark, well, that is the bad approach (my opinion). You must be cheaper than big 2 in order to gain market share. Don’t forget, majority of buyers in consumers segment, are not familiar with DSLRs and they will buy CanNikon just because they have same price as Sony while they can be found in any corner store, and each and every store has sale for big 2 from time to time.
I can’t remember last time when Sony was on sale, of course, Sony cameras could be found in Photo stores only, while others can be found anywhere.
Just check COSTCO or Best Buy, how many models they carry how much they sell.
The problem with Sony and high end, limited audience lenses (such as the 500mm f4) is that while Nikon can amortize the production to let’s say, 10,0000 units, Sony can only amortize it to 1000 units. It’s a matter of being able to sell something without a lost. That’s why you’ll see some anomalous pricing on certain limited market products. To the people who will buy that lens, it is probably justifiable.
What would make sense is for Sony to rebrand some high end Tamron/Sigma/Tokina designed products at a very slight price premium. They can even co-design a product, have a limited availability clause for a certain time and pay a certain amount of the initial production runs. There are numerous possibilities for joint ventures in this regard.
To expect every lens that Sony makes to be at the same pricepoint as their competition is not realistic. What would make better sense is to price the commonly available products at the same or slightly lower pricepoint in order to grow market share. And with the E mount system of late, they seem to have some strategy to this effect.
Sony always do rebrand of lens in past history. Even Minolta rebrand.
Just few example
*Minolta 100-300 and 100-400 both Tokina rebrand
*Minolta 24-105 Tokina rebrand
*Minolta 18-200 and 18-250 both Tamron rebrand
*Sony 70-300 is Tamron rebrand
*Sony 24-75 is Tamron rebrand
Tokina and Tamron also had development tasks with 500/8, 70-400.
New 400/4 and 24-105/4 lens were both Olympus lens, but both cancelled now.
That may be true but it’s a market share loss strategy. You can buy a D4 and a 500 f/4 from Nikon for the price of just a Sony lens. Or you can buy a D800 and a 500 f/4 and have $2K in your pocket. If Sony actually wants to attract photographers and gain some market share, they would have to sell some products at cost just to get the share and to lock in customers. I realize this is just one example but a disparity of $5K is not going to get anybody to buy that lens since they can simply buy a pro grade camera and the lens for the same or less from another manufacturer.
Exactly, that is my point. For most of us, we either used Minolta in the past, or we knew what we wanted, in some cases, Sony DSLR provided better value than CanNik.
For those who just plan to enter this segment, you must get their attention. Majority of people check price first – Sony lost.
Take someone who wants to move into APS-C or FF, and don’t have any lenses, who do you think they will choose? Majority not Sony for sure, some of them will check Professionals who’re using Sony – not too many, then compare the price (Canon has the edge here, Nikon is better (?)), check how often you have accessories on sale – again Sony lost……
What happened with Samsung more than decade ago, they started with very good products and lower prices than competition. Today, they have good products, higher prices than Sony (some TV models) and people still buying them.
Sony lost again, their management still think that we should pay extra for those 4 letters, well, not anymore.
I’ll stick with Alpha A mount, too expensive to move now, but I sure hope they will change their strategy – for the sake of all of us. Consumers to keep using our systems, and for them as a company.
It’s only a marketshare loss strategy if the equipment that the masses will be buying (and that’s not the 500mm f4) is more expensive than what the competition is offering. Sony’s cameras and mass market (and advanced amateur) products are competitively price. The problem is that when people go to Best Buy, the people will ask the “experts” there and they’ll steer them to Nikon and Canon. Heck, on a Best Buy near me there is a special table with a bunch of Samsung NX cameras. I’ve been there several times and I have yet to see someone touch one of these display models. I would think that Sony is looking at the expense associated with selling products at BB versus local camera stores and see that the ROI on Best Buy sales may be lagging (for classes of products). Of course, this is not the approach I would do, but their reaction is understandable.
I reality, Best Buy does not seem to have the floor traffic they had in years past. That doesn’t mean they need to cut their presence completely (for digital SLTs and E mount cameras). Heck, the high end stuff is rarely available in Best Buy anyway (for most camera makers).
The bottom line is this. If they cannot compete with Canon and Nikon on price. They cannot compete at all.
Don’t know all the details but I think part of the issue is flat panel TVs are such a mature market Sony suffers from a lot of over capacity. I think that’s why they’re really pushing 4k hoping it sparks a replacement boom.
The problem of Sony is huge development of things that will disappear as fast as it appears. Look beta system once, it disappeared for the crappy VHS, that was cheaper. Then, the DV video, with huge machines made by Sony for editing and so on, disappeared. Then pricing,compare flat screens to LG and Samsung in price. The most funny, is that the inner life, all electronic components are made by LG, screens are in majority Samsung. Sony has started to become competitive with the issue of A7 cameras, there is not doubt that NEX-7 is much too expensive compared to NEX3, the few buttons can not be a reason for that, nor can the sensor be, since Nikon puts a camera on the market for 450$ with the same sensor. If Sony wants to persist on the market, it has to remain on the same pricing policy it started with by the A7 system. Then, Sony is a small part of what the company really is, if we look where Sony is partner, like Hassy and Oly in photo business, in Zeiss where it has shares, I do not doubt any moment that we will live with Sony for quiet a long time in the future. What Sony needs to do is learn by it’s faults, develop things and redevelop those things, and not change the whole stuff every 6 month for something else. One might say that evolution kills the market, but on the end, it’s Sony who is itself for a big amount responsible for that evolution. Maybe, on the end, it would be better for Sony to just remain a developer and supplier for other brands….. and only make cameras under their own name.
Like Apple, Sony spends a lot of money on R&D in an effort to innovate and bring their products to market… only to have companies like Samsung reverse engineer them and make cheaper versions.
Unlike Apple, Sony didn’t launch/win a successful lawsuit against Samsung.
That’s why the consortium companies who recently banded together to purchase a significant patent horde (Apple, Mircosoft, Sony, etc.) is an interesting one. Google, Samsung and most major manufacturers are not in this consortium.
Apple is a master marketing company and their multiple law suits {which could only happen in the USA } are typically about “look and feel” rather than actual technological innovations. It has sued about anyone using a lowercase “I” it’s sued over the word “pod” it has sued New York for using the “big apple “.
They want to sue other tablet companies for using rounded corners on tablets, seriously ?. Xerox PARC’s was the origin of their desktop design. There are many example of them borrowing others innovations renaming and then trying to sue anyone who uses the innovation that wasn’t theirs in the first place.
Apple is completely hypocritical their symbol is even borrowed from apple records. They make next to nothing and use their financial clout and the bias of the American courts towards American business to make claims that are so tenuous the would be laughed out of court elsewhere. They have a goodly number of obsessive fanboys but for most products Apple gives you less for the same or more money than other brands with a “cool” tax that no shortage of gullible people seem happy to pay .
Some people don’t agree with you but that’s the way it is. BTW, Apple when you say that Apple makes almost nothing may not be entirely accurate and displays a bias that not everyone may not believe in.
Rephrasing my garbled response – when you said Apple doesn’t make anything, you display a bias that not everyone may agree with. Sometimes, hyperbole, in its most extreme, is not effective in proving a point.
At least their products work, much easier and intuitive than anything else on the market. They reinveted the mobile phone market as well as the pc market. The rest just followed, enough said.
I guess the reason is something to do with being able to buy a Samsung TV that was better and hundreds of quid cheaper than a Sony. It’s what I did for my two 46″ TVs. I don’t know anybody who owns a Sony TV, it is all Samsung and Toshiba that I see in my friends/family houses.
When the cheapest 4K panal TV is just selling for $500 USD in Hong Kong, I think not just Sony is suffering but the whole TV market. Made in China OEM products are the main reason of driving the top manufacturers away in the price war. A camera developer used to ask me about how I see the 4K panel of seeing photos from the camera then you might understand that how hard they try to find a reason of the consumers to buy a 4K TV before there is enough source of movies available.
I got 50″ tv from china for 400.00 that is better than my brothers 43″ samsung for 500.00 so you may have a point.
For a long time Sony had no competition. Then the Koreans came around with aggressive pricing and a solid product. They started beating Sony on price and performance. Eventually the TV market became a commodity business like PC’s where products were disposable after they had run their course. Sony was too slow to react to this change by moving prices downward and creating shorter end of life cycles. Ultimately the Koreans stole the TV market away from them.
The Koreans didn’t steal the market. Sony didn’t adapt to it. And with Chines companies willing to undersell Samsung (and other companies) significantly, the commoditized markets that Samsung sells most of its products will lead to declining profit margins.
I work for a wholesaler who sells Sony laptops, TV’s, tablets and cameras amongst other stuff. I also do servicing on their laptops.
What I have noticed with Sony is that they have some extremely talented designers and make some fantastic high end products. They do lightweight, flexible, strong carbon composite parts in laptops better than anyone else I have seen, it lasts for years and looks fantastic. A lot of the high end Sony gear really is worth the price and the reputation Sony had several decades ago.
On the other hand they are bloody useless at creating cheap, low end products. When they try to design laptops for the low or middle end of the market they are terrible, badly designed, and extremely poor quality. They are as badly built as the cheapest machines on the market and still cost quite a bit more. They are also a very difficult, expensive, bureaucratic company to work with for warranty repairs. It costs them far too much in servicing their cheaper products for it to be worth it.
I think this is really their problem as a company, they are set up for, and are very good at creating high end products. They are no good at cheap, mass produced rubbish, although this hasn’t stopped them trying, and it has ruined their reputation.
In my opinion they should leave the low end of the market and return to the company they were in the 80’s and 90’s when they made the best gear and you payed heavily for it.
This at least is the case with products like TV’s and computers. They are competing pretty well in the camera market with fairly well built cheap products.
I easily agree that credit rankings are mostly readings in the clouds. And then Sony is in good fellowship with Olympus. I doubt that this has anything to say in terms of their camera future. Though I do think that Sony suffers from lacking focus. One co-poster here mentioned Samsung and I think that Sony is quite as unfocused as that named We-do-it-all company.
would be interesting to have an organisation providing ratings on rating agencies, i’m sure that moody’s would end up as junk too – shame that whole financial market still relies on these agencies which have provided, if anything, misleading ratings hence the meltdown in 2007/08 – well, F@£ck ’em
The rating agencies perhaps rate Samsung very highly (because of the profits in phones and TVs). Does this matter to a Sony camera user? No.
There are many countries that have “junk” ratings from these agencies. Hope someone will grade these rating agencies too..
The question no one wants to ask
What happens to if sony goes under?
Well, all of the Sony stuff will be up for sale – think of what Kodak did. A new “JK Imaging” will arise with Chinese money to sell junk cameras branded Alpha.
And then Polystations will become the main thing?
(Google Image it, if you don’t know what I’m talking about :p )
LOL
The same that happened to Minolta.
Nope, Konica Minolta is still operating. 🙂
Really!!! Maybe Sony can sell DSLRs under the Minolta name again to appease the die-hards. Maybe just to test the waters.
You’ll have to use a Hassleblad Solar camera from then on, Barry!
Sony isn’t going to go under in the near future. They’re just losing money selling HDTV but who isn’t.
Sony’s future isn’t in TV production, because there is no future in producing HDTVs. Its a very competitive market, and the TVs are sold for little or no profit. Companies have been losing money on TV sales for years. It make sense to pull out altogether.
Sony should cut its loses, and just sell their panels to other manufacturers. Let them take on all the risk.
My bet is on Samsung buying up Sony. They surely can afford it.
It would be pointless, Samsung is in most of the electronics product divisions as Sony already. No one company would buy Sony, divisions would be sold to companies looking to expand into a particular divisions product space. It would make no sense for Microsoft to purchase the play station division (since they have xbox) but Samsung is not in the console business and could be a potential bidder.
Anyway, I do not expect that to happen. I expect Sony to continue to re-organize, consolidate redundancies and sell some parts of the business to focus on others.
Apple is a better candidate to buy Sony. I’ve been saying this for years. Samsung is not a great fit. And really, I don’t see a major Japanese conglomerate selling out to a Korean conglomerate.
In my opinion, Samsung has reached its apex as a consumer electronics company.
Let’s imagine Sony would be completely bought out by a single company, what would the benefit to apple be?
An Apple branded TV, connected to an Apple set top that plays games, with content delivery system from Apple, with content derived from Sony’s content creation enterprises (and additional content licensed by Apple) would be nothing to sneeze at. Apple owning a studio and other content creation entities would be even more formidable. They can match the breadth of Samsung and then some. Remember, Sony is one of the most diversified companies in the planet (even more so than Samsung).
Apple cameras, hooked up to Apple editing software (or delivery software) wouldn’t be a bad idea either. Personal content creation is going to be a big market, even bigger than it already is. An end to end process within a singular ecosystem is also something that would be desirable (to some people).
Remember, Sony’s Pictures did not contribute significantly to Sony’s bottom line in 2013. (Dud’s like “Another Earth”, “The Smurfs 2”, “Red Dawn” and “White House Down” did not help the bottom line). On the other hand, how many people are aware that movies such as “American Hustle”, “Captain Phillips”, “This is the End”, “Django Unchained” and “Skyfall” are Sony Pictures productions? The studio is also in the midst of restructuring to focus on more lucrative television projects. Of course, they expect margins to improve in the next fiscal year.
In short, people need to understand the components that make up Sony Corporation. There are significant upsides on major parts of the corporation. Yes, there are drags in the business (such as the commoditized television market). Smartphones are fast becoming a commodity, so one would expect companies who are reliant on that product segment alone to suffer profitability erosion (Samsung again).
So yes, I do see advantages to an acquisition of Sony (by Apple). And for Sony to be able to whether the storm that Stringer brought on.
Correction: for sony to weather (not whether) the storm.
“An Apple branded TV, connected to an Apple set top that plays games…”
Isn’t it the TV division that played the biggest part into Sony’s financial hardships? I cannot see Apple wanting a piece of this with all it’s disparate television product lines. If Apple wanted to, they could flip the switch and start manufacturing an Apple television set this year. They have been producing monitors and all-in-ones for decades, a TV would be an easy product for them to manufacture. They have stayed away for a reason.
Their iPad, iphone, & ipod + Apple TV box is their game console. They are really not into a traditional game console:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iohLkVbRtJc
“Apple owning a studio and other content creation entities would be even more formidable.”
Maybe, maybe not because it could lead to a conflict of interest with Nintendo as distributor & competitor.
Apple cameras, hooked up to Apple editing software (or delivery software) wouldn’t be a bad idea either. Personal content creation is going to be a big market, even bigger than it already is. An end to end process within a singular ecosystem is also something that would be desirable (to some people).
Well, they don’t need Sony Vegas or any Sony software, they already have FCP X, Logic and so on. Apple has also expressed disinterest in the Professional markets, they are more of a mass market consumer company (they stopped making servers, simplified and consolidated final cut studio, took years to update mac pro). So I doubt the professional, broadcast & industrial sony divisions would be of any interest to Apple and would probably be either sold, spun off or shut down under Apple. The same goes for Sony’s computer, phone & tablet divisions – all of which apple competes and/or leads (depending on the metric).
Apple likes to keep things simple and have a one size fits all approach. The disparate divisions and overlapping product lines of Sony as well as the corporate culture would be a poor fit. Apple tends to purchase very small, highly focused companies not behemoths.
Some auto correct issues and missing quotes in my prior post. I don’t know where “Nintendo” came from, lol.
Remember that Apple has reinvented itself several times over now. I am not saying that it’s a fit with their philosophy of the moment. I am saying that there is some logic to Apple buying Sony.
Apple is still refining their appleTV concept. Why not a PS4 as a set top? With all kinds of other things hooked up to it.
The thing is, Apple has some of the best industrial designers on the planet. They went a little bit too simple on FCP, now they are putting some things back into it. I still say personal content creation (and distribution) will be an exploding market that Sony and Apple will be pursuing.
Given that autocorrect randomly pasted Nintendo where Apple should have been written, I could see actually Nintendo as being a much more appealing takeover target for Apple than Sony (I don’t expect that to happen either).
Nintendo handheld games are already touch optimized. The Nintendo library on the App store would be hot.
A current gen iphone or ipad is more powerful than a Wii U (which prominently features a crappy tablet). A hybrid Apple TV + Wii would greater than the sum of its current parts. Nintendo lacks a clear direction for it’s hardware, networking and OS which Apple could provide while Nintendo would provide fantastic exclusives for iOS -a much cleaner fit.
Wait – so their BIG BET on 3D televisions didn’t work out? Say it ain’t so.
One thing that’s always a looming threat with these big companies that “also have a camera division” is that some bean counter at HQ makes a big (devastating) decision in the camera division to save a few pennies someplace or meet a quarterly forecast.
Let’s imagine Sony would be completely bought out by a single company, what would the benefit to apple be?
Disregard, wrong reply.
It’s difficult not to be depressed by this news but in the long run it might be good for the camera division. Sony might be forced to put more emphasis on mirrorless and DSLR. Prices might need to be lowered on their lenses and cameras for the time being. This might be wishful thinking.
Don’t care. You could give me a Canikon for free and I still wouldn’t budge. I have the Zeiss glass I want in FF anyway so a random body here and there is really all I ask. Outside of that my funds are going toward a secondary smaller system.
I will say though, Sony isn’t doing itself any favors with its rediculous pricing on lenses and a99. They should’ve had a 6D killer out a freakin YEAR ago. There is ZERO doubt in my mind that Sony has lost an incredible amount of budding photographers because of that camera and its price point alone.
Please don’t forget the flash system that sucks hard when compared to nikon or canon even though sony has better designed flash.
Yeah, I’m kind of talking out my you know what. I’m thinking of returning the 50mm Zeiss I just bought. I have no problem dropping serious cash on lenses but all this uncertainty is starting to get to even me. CanonRumors showed the 6D now being offered new for under 1400.00 dollars on ebay. Come on Sony….really? Really?
It’s like their pricing I feel shows they are completely clueless. I love this 50mm Zeiss but it is not worth 1500 dollars. No…freaking….way. I just can’t see myself going with Canon, but I can hold off on Sony gear and pick it up later this year at the same damn price. I’m starting to think the wait and see approach is better.
Sony will be in big trouble soon. How I know this? Because of big indicators.
* Sony cutting camera budget, Sony EMCS laying off up to 40% of workers at Kohda. I already lose job there. I not offer early retire program.
* Sony officially cut pipeline concept of 5 A-mount cameras for 2014 down to 1.
* Sony cancel development work on 400/4 and 24-105/4 lens and sell future development rights back to Olympus
* Sony no more advertize for A-mount in any USA product space (magazine, in store, etc). Advertize was always weak spot for Sony, but now budget is removed completely.
* Sony removed $2.5 million of R&D budget for FY2014 for ILC camera (Both A- and E-).
* Sony contract of CMOS sensor sales with Nikon ends in March and rumor heard is will not renew.
* Sony using many more plastics in new camera than before to cut costs. Repair rate up 14% due to cheap matirial.
* Sony not let go of TV and computer business even though they not furthermore profitable. It having anchor effect in high sea.
* Sony continue move production to Thailand and quality suffer more.
I think you all soon see much more danger in Sony future than it seems. I work for Sony for 23 year of my life – much sadness in my heart.
Mr Sato
Mr. Sato,
Firstly, I am sorry to hear of your job loss, and sincerely hope you will be financially sound in the future.
You seem to have some solid information.
The one A-mount planned, do you know if its full frame or if its an A77 replacement.
Much Thanks,
Mr Sato was a very bad employee..
Much Saki
Little Work
Mailroom Much Quieter Now
fake
Well, not sure whether you can honestly comment about the camera business. Wasn’t their camera division absorbed by another division a few years back? Whatever published numbers would really only indicate the health of the entire division where that business is now controlled.
I still see a fair few A200s around – it must be one of their most successful DSLR/DSLTs mustn’t it? And it was an extremely price competitive entry level camera.
I’d suggest for a lot of people the entry level “proper camera” they buy determines the brand they stay with if they upgrade.
+1. the a100 got me into the sony system. I now have some of their very pricey glass. It took 6 years and here I am. They need to start offering that kind of value in FF now that prices have come down.
There were few cameras that sold really well. A200, A500s, A77, all got quite a bit of sales, mostly thanks to having a lot of bang for the buck. Only that happen thanks to luck and Sony flooding market with different models, not thanks to actual knowledge.
By the way, there is a new Sony Pictures production, directed by George Clooney, coming out next month. The cast?
George Clooney
Jean Dujardin
Cate Blanchett
Paul Giamatti
John Goodman
Daniel Craig
Could be a winner. And a contributor to the bottom line.
Oops, made an error on the main cast. The cast includes:
George Clooney
Jean Dujardin
Cate Blanchett
Bill Murray
John Goodman
ugh Bonneville
Bob Balaban
Matt Damon
Dimitri Leonidas
The movie? I don’t want to be an ad, but the movie does seem intriguing.
The joke about bean counters! This is what the world is like today. If you loose money you got to do something. … That is simply what the bean guys demand.
Samsung made better TVs and charge higher prices than Sony today. Sonys laptops is simply not sexy at all. The world is buying Mac, Lenovo and Acer today. Games are more and more on smartphones now. Sonys smartphones are nice but it’s not enough. Samsung and iPhones rules.
Sony is strong in sensors and mirrorless interchangable lenses maybee? They should concentraten on what they can sell.
Sony is a little like Philips was 10 years ago. They produce everything in electronics and no profit. It can not be done!
Do something radical before the market does it for you 🙁
Market of standalone cameras is shrinking, in recent time it will be only interesting for enthusiasts and pros, which is not a large market anyway, so no significant income for such a large company Sony is.
I feel sorry for all the people losing their job/income.
Firstly, I admire many of Sony’s cameras, but their business strategy, or lack of it, puzzles me! Who is in charge? It seems that the engineers have a free, uncontrolled playground (?). Normally, lens choice is complicated by many uncompatible lens mounts, but Sony alone has three (?) Further, there is in camera image stabilization, on lens or none at all (?) Until recently we had two brands, Alpha and NEX and now somebody tries to correct this marketing misstake. It demands a lot of resources, it’s costly and the result is that sales of the new models is hampered by lack of compatible lenses. It’s like fighting a war on several fronts. Frankly, business wise, it’s a mess and I wonder what stuff are they drinking at Sony?
Wonder, i can confirm to you that Sony does NOT have three lens mounts. They have two only, A- and E-mount.
FE is not a third lens mount (which many seem to believe), it denotes E-mount lenses which have full format image circle. Can be used both on FF and APS-C bodies of course.
In A-mount it is the lenses with the smaller APS-C image circle that is denoted – with DT. Even for A-mount all lenses can be used on all bodies, albeit FF-lenses will be cropped on APS-C bodies, and DT-lenses will usually not cover the entire FF sensor.
Which I assume most people here will know already.
.
Sony computers not doing well? What a surprise. It’s OK to make them slick, it’s not OK to fill them with junk software. A friend bought a laptop with BluRay and the BluRay software expired after a month; there was no free BluRay software at the time.
Screw me once, it’s your bad; screw me twice, it’s my bad.
Good riddance to another headless monster.
they make awesome computers that look beautiful but the price you pay vs the actual performance vs other options is a bit nuts.
I also remember the BluRay trick, what a con! And all that crap software to make you feel like buying more crap.
No more of my money to Sony computers, that’s for sure.
Kazuo Hirai is doing a great job turning Sony around… The global financial crisis is pretty much over. So brighter times ahead…Might go buy myself some Sony stock while it’s cheap…
The global economic downturn is not over, but Hirai has a much better feel for the company than Stringer. I would not expect the global market to grow significantly for years. There are still bubbles out there and many people are still overleveraged.
Sorry should have said over in New Zealand…
It’s over in most of the countries – few still do suffer, but mostly it’s just bad PR done to suck money out of people (after all “financial crisis” = cheap work force)
Revenge?
If I remember correctly.
Recently a major hedge fund manager bought a lot of sony stock and then began presuring sony to split up the company so he could make lots of money.
Sony refused.
This sounds a lot like retaliation to me.
Hopefully you factcheckers out there can fill in the missing details that I dont remember?
My comment not posted twice now – am I doing wrong?
It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t buy their cameras, it means you shouldn’t buy their bonds.
It doesn’t mean that either. It depends on your risk tolerance. Those bonds will have outsized yields so if they do make good on them, you will make outsized gains.
I don’t really care for this kind of news stories. Please only post rumors about Sony camera’s.
I do care about this financial news – what your opinion is, is your opionion – we should respect this.
Agreed! I want to know what’s going on with the A77 follower!
This is actually bad news. It means that Sony is unable to borrow at a competitive rate to fund cashflow for the day to day business. For you this means that R&D will be hit. All those lenses you are looking for could well end up pipe dreams…
Where is the problem? If Sony comes to stop existing tomorrow, I will drive Toyota, it’s that simple.
Even if you Sony-Rims don’t fit onto your Toyota, so you’ll have to buy new ones? Don’t tell me you won’t be pissed…
I know it’s been said here many times here before but the captcha implementation this blog’s plug-in uses is one of the worst I’ve ever seen.
Agreed. Also, if it could be located above the comment box it would be mighty helpful. I tend to write a response and forget it’s BELOW the submit comment botton. It’s really annoying when you realize you forgot to input the text, flip back and your comment is gone.
even they are down, A&E mount will still survive they have future proof development tech.
their tv division need to cut or sell in some area, they are focus on 4k tech which is we are not ready yet, but they push the 4k content via internet instead long awaited 4k content broadcast.
a caliber multi industrial company like sony isnt go bankrupt easily
I hope my comments are taken too negative, as there is nothing constructive in being negative. Sony is a leader in innovation and many of their products amaze me, but without a sound business strategy, the engineers won’t be playing around for long, which would be very sad.
One of the major attractions with a top quality (by any standards) FF E-mount camera, is that it should be easy to carry around with only one “FAST” normal zoom lens, but this system isn’t available from Sony today. If you opt for third party lenses, you are confronted with extremely bulky and expensive adapters. On the other hand, Sony has focused resources on two (?) slow zoom lenses for this system.
No wonder that people still turn to traditional cameras, as the final cost and bulk (without adapter) are about the same.