[shoplink 14796]
[/shoplink]Image on top: The current popular Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 lens you can get at [shopcountry 14796].
43rumors just found a new Panasonic patent that discloses full details about new fast primes for Micro Four Thirds (United States Patent Application 20110052181 via freepatentsonline). Let’s start with the official patent description:
“It has conventionally been difficult to reduce the size of a fast lens system having an F number of about 1.4 to 2.4.“…”Each of lens systems according to Embodiments 1 to 11 of the present invention has an F number of 1.4 to 2.1, and includes, in order from the object side toward the image side, a front unit including two lens elements, i.e., a positive lens element and a negative lens element, and a rear unit having a positive power. The rear unit includes at least one negative lens element and at least one aspheric surface. A diaphragm A is disposed in a widest air space in the lens system.”
The patent unveils all details about the lenses including the spherical aberration, astigmatism and distortion data!!! Those are the lenses:
1) 17.5mm f/1,75 (lenght of the lens 5cm)
2) 17mm f/1.75 (lenght of the lens 5cm)
3) 17mm f/1.75 (lenght of the lens 4cm)
4) 20mm f/1.75 (lenght of the lens 4cm)
5) 16,7mm f/1.75 (lenght of the lens 4.1cm)
6) 21mm f/1.75 (lenght of the lens 4cm)
7) 17mm f/1.83 (lenght of the lens 4cm)
8 ) 16mm f/1.7 (lenght of the lens 5.6cm)
9) 14,4mm f/1.75 (lenght of the lens 4.3cm)
10) 14,4mm f/1.75 (lenght of the lens 5.5cm)
11) 16,4mm f/1.43 (lenght of the lens 5cm)
Those info are very detailed and do proof that Panasonic has working prototypes with those characteristics. I hope Panasonic will really bring them to final production! The most interesting lenses are the 14mm f/1.7 (faster and larger than the current [shoplink 16258]14mm f/2.5 lens[/shoplink]), the 16mm f/1.4, the 17mm f/1.7 (faster and larger than the current [shoplink 14798]Olympus 17mm f/2.8[/shoplink]). We already have the [shoplink 14796]Panasonic 20mm f/1.7[/shoplink] described in the patent (or at least a similar version). Interesting, Panasonic announced the development of the 25mm f/1.4 but that lens isn’t mentioned here!
I simplified the lens list and made a short poll
[poll id=”49″]
The Micro Four Thirds system currently offers three compact primes:
Panasonic 14mm f/2.5 at [shopcountry 16258].
Olympus 17mm f/2.8 at [shopcountry 14798].
Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 at [shopcountry 14796].
Reminder: Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
FT3=41-60% chance the rumor is correct
FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
86 Responses
They need to make both 14mm and 17mm sub F2. Maybe a 12 instead of 14. It’s the only way to fight worse low light performance of the sensor compared to larger ones. And since native m4/3 lenses will be way smaller than fast wide APS-C or FF, that’s going to be a huge advantage.
I am willing to go to even F2 as long as the lens is 12mm…
Me too, but don’t tell Pana – better ask for more than you need, and you are more likely to get what you need :).
I guess those are just test units before the launch of the 20mm f/1.7… In my opinion the focal lengths would be too close to their current lens lineup. A fast 17mm is welcome but doesn’t seem to be a priority right now unless there is a strong demand from the video market. A slower but wider pancake or a fast portrait prime would be much more interesting.
No, filing Date is 08/27/2010, about a year after 20mm F1.7 release.
All I need is the EPL2 and the 20mm/1.7.. But I cant afford it.. 🙁
HEY PANA
STOP DEVELOPING NEW THINGS FOR A MOMENT AND SUPPLY SOME F***ING GH2
FFS IT HAS BEEN 6 MONTHS AND AMAZON CHANGED SHIPPING TO “1 TO 3 MONTHS” AGAIN
AND STILL YOU DIDNT RELEASE AN OFFICIAL APOLOGIES LETTER.
FIRST DAY AT COLLEGE (BA) THEY TAUGHT US “KEEPING YOUR EXISTING CUSTOMERS IS ALWAYS CHEAPER THEN FINDING NEW ONES”
WITH THIS ATTITUDE YOU WILL RELEASE YOUR CURRENT CUSTOMERS VERY QUICKLY
R&D are not responsible for quality control and much less distribution. Unless the company is the size of 1 person.
^^^^ Ding ding ding. I hate when people think a company is one cohesive unit. It doesn’t work that way. Using George’s logic, they should have their web developers in the factory making GH2s
gh2 is everywhere in europe. lenses is what we need
Has anyone reported that it may be an exchange rate gimmick. US dollar is down. Panasonic’s margins are higher in europe. US gets the shaft. Still, it’s remarkable that 6 months after this camera’s release there are no bodies in any real quantity to be purchased in the US.
This is really bad for panasonic loyalists, or those who may be considering a smaller body and a slew of new lenses to go with the system.
FIRST: DON’T SHOUT!
There is no GH2 delivery problem in many countries. There must be something special in the US market that makes Panasonic believe that it is not worth to ship more units than they currently do.
Panasonic: the need for speed is there. Most important now is going fast on the release date!
We need a complete set of fast primes for m43!
On February 16, 2009 I suggested on dpreview forum:
> 1,7/ 12 OIS
> 1,7/ 20 OIS (Macro)
> 1,7/ 40 OIS Macro 1:2, (maybe with lens mount on both sides to get a real
> close up lense)
>
> Of course all lenses with autofocus usable for HD video.
And today I would like to add:
1,7/ 80 OIS
“On February 16, 2009 I suggested on dpreview forum…”
So… have you just been through the trouble of checking your dpreview messages in order to quote a 2 years old post of yours with the exact date and content?
Man, sometimes Internet forums really are like a circus arena…
😉
No F2.0 or lower lens has ever had image stabilization, has it? What has changed that would make that possible now?
Why should F 2.0 be a magical limit?
Of course, its always a compromise of weight, size, quality and prize.
@43rumors
After reading the complete story, I believe a FT5 rating is inadeqat, regarding the headline “Panasonic 16mm f/1.4 and more prime lens specs!”
Why?
To be honest I don’t know how and if I should rate patents. On one side those are official documents about possible future developments. On the other site those are not official products yet.
What do you suggest?
The Patent is fact, no rumor. So no FT number at all.
In a next step, one could think of how big the chances are for these lenses to be released.
just my 2€cent
I edited the post. Now it’s more appropriate. Thanks Radi!
A 12mm f1.4 or 1.7 would be more interesting.
Better yet, make a 7-14mm f2.8. Anyone wanna buy a kidney? 😉
“A 12mm f1.4 or 1.7 would be more interesting”
+1
I’d also be very happy with a 12/2 or a 7-14/2.8!
am i the only one who likes this 16mm f1.4? 🙂
No…
I’d kill for a 16/f1.4. I love the traditional 35mm focal length, and I especially love it for shooting people with context, so the ability of a 1.4 aperture to separate subject and background, despite the width, would be ace.
This and a 42/f1.8 would be pretty much my ultimate travel the world kit 🙂
please, PanaGod, make this lens 🙂
16/1.4 won’t give you much separation, unless it’s head and shoulders you’re shooting.
1.4/16 allows fast shutter speed in poor conditions.
“Interesting, Panasonic announced the development of the 25mm f/1.4 but that lens isn’t mentioned here!”
The patent covers a design principle for allowing wide-aperture lenses to be made at a smaller size. Everything we hear about the 25/1.4 suggests it isn’t going to be very small… so it wouldn’t be mentioned here since presumably it doesn’t use the principle described in the patent.
Incidentally, the fact that the patent application includes aberration and distortion data for all the proposed combinations doesn’t necessarily mean that prototypes of all of them exist; I believe these specs can be calculated by the software used in lens design.
You are probably right Ranger! In some way that patent confirms the 25mm will not be compact…
But is 40 – 50 mm compact? The 20/1.7 is 30 mm long, including the mount part that protudes beyond the flange surface.
I don’t want any of them as much as I want a fast portrait lens. Seriously, no one needs a 14mm AND a 16mm, AND a 20mm. But pretty much everyone needs an 85mm f/1.4 equiv. Why haven’t panny or Olympus produced this lens yet?
There is certainly demand for fast normal primes. 85/1.4 equivalent means 43/0.7 on m4/3 – how much are you willing to pay for that given a Nikkor costs $1600?
f stop # does not increase when you compare to 35mm film, only the lens focal length doubles
Stop being ignorant and read this (or go out and shoot):
http://www.josephjamesphotography.com/equivalence/
I find that shooting portraits is very easy with manual focus. Very little movement of the subject. My Nikkor 50/1.4 is fantastic and inexpensive. I think that the portrait MFT prime lens is probably a small niche lens and probably not a priority for Panasonic. Though, I WOULD like to have one too.
Panasonic thinks small is the only way to go right now. Yes the 25mm F1.4 won’t be as small as the 20mm F1.7. However, it will be a whole lot smaller than everything else out there.
Very good patent!
M43 need good lenses as small as possible.
Then m43 can easily beat the Sony Nex system!
I don’t mean an actual equiv in terms if depth of field, but a 42mm f/1.4 would be great, and if it isn’t too large, and the IQ is good I would pay up to 1500
Do You? :]
This is why no company can take those discussions seriously.
OFF records. Companies are not as smart as you imagine. That’s what I learned in my real job 🙂
BIG +1 on that
oh damn LOL !!!!!
Well, regardless of price or priority, panasonic and Olympus aren’t going to challenge canon or nikon without an autofocus portrait lens, and because of the size, a prime us the only thing that makes sense. I use a manual focus lens now, and yes that works sometimes, but when the subject is moving I really wish I had autofocus.
Just talk.
Believe it when I see It.
“Interesting, Panasonic announced the development of the 25mm f/1.4 but that lens isn’t mentioned here!”
@Admin: the 25mm will be huge. It will not use any technology described in the patent to make fast lenses smaller.
When I bought a Pentax K mount camera in the 1980s they had lenses in the range at 15,18, 20, 24, 28, 30,35 and 40 mm, and 50 mm lenses at F2, f1.7 f1.4 and f1.2, the tele lenses starting at 85 up to 2000mm. That’s want used to be called a lens range. So the message is, don’t complain that one lens is too close to another, just hope that they will make the one you want.
For me a 14mm f1.7 would make an attractive companion to the 25mm f1.4, giving a big improvement on lens speed compared to the standard zoom lens.
I would like to think that Olympus and Panasonic can avoid too much duplication and between them bring us lenses at 9mm and 12mm in addition to what we have already.
Regarding the much discussed-portrait lens, when I look at the size of the Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 (for 35mm format), I imagine it ought to be possible to make a 40 or 45mm f1.2 for micro four thirds without it being excessively large or expensive.
Don’t forget in those days, zooms were inferior to primes and less practical to make. Today, zooms allow some of these primes to no longer be necessary. Though primes are attractive for
The m43 system. IMO, zooms fit better for the bigger bodies and the video camera systems.
Pany emphasis on prime lenses right now is keep the size as small as possible and as fast as practical for m4/3. What Pany has in their sights is the X100 rangefinder with equivalent 34.5mm/f2 lens so the lens Pany is most likely to produce is one similar focal length only a little faster ie the 16.7mm/f1.75 or equivalent 33.4.
Of the lenses mentioned I would expect Pany to chose one close to 4cm long and not longer considering the 20/1.7 is only 3cm long.
I too wish for a longer focal length. Experts say the size will get considerably larger for any m4/3 lens greater than 20mm because then becomes a parafocal design. So maybe a 40mm/f2 my hopes?
On second thoughts Pany would most likely go for the faster 16.7mm/f1.4 lens which would be impossible for APSC to match for size and 5cm long still would not be very big. This would be a big calling card.
I really question the need for a lens any wider as obviously would be bigger for same lens speed? Most wide angles wider than 28mm have much more distorsion than I like to see in pictures. Anyway with the excellent new panarama modes first developed by Sony and now spreading to other manufactures capable of taking high resolution panaramas up to 180 degrees by stiching 16mp pictures together who needs a wide angle any more? I can see the fast 16.5 being a great all around lens for scenery and just use panarama or 16:9 when you want to go wider?
If you look at the Pentax 43 1.9 lens, which is AF and even with an M4/3 adapter, it would still be fairly small.
Even if it was the size of a current 50 1.4 from Nikon or Canon, with an adapter, that would work for me and it would make it about the size of current 85 1.8 lenses from other lens makers. I don’t really need to carry a portrait lens with me everywhere, but not having one at all makes Panasonic seem like they are dumber than a bag of hammers, specially after saying they are going to rule the camera market.
” WE ARE PANASONIC, WE ARE GODS AND WE ARE GOING TO RULE THE CAMERA MARKET, but we just need a fast wide angle lens and a fast normal lens and I guess a fast portrait lens and I suppose a fast tele prime or two, and aaaaa, oh yeah, and some fast zoom lenses and aaaaa maybe a good flash system. But still, we are going to rule the camera market, some day, or year. We are on top of it, unless we just decide to change to another size format, which we might do first. In which case, we won’t need to make any of the lenses, ha ha.”
The Pentax is a screw drive focus motor. That is why it is small.
More to it than that. The absence of a motor only reduces the diameter of the lens, not its length. It also isn’t great wide open, and more distortion than is really ideal.
Fast primes are good. But why only wideangle lenses? Where are fast short telephoto lenses? Lenses like a 50mm f1,4 or a 80/85/90mm f1,7 – that’s what I’m interested in!
Why primes?
I have just taken delivery of the Cosina Voigtlander 25/0.95 – so far, a wonderful lens, and sure to become a favourite. My other frequently used lenses are Nikon 55/2.8 Micro, Nikon 300/2.8, Panasonic 20/1.7 and Panasonic 7-14. Much less used are the Panasonic 14-45, 45-200, 100-300. So, primes seem to rule – why? Speed, speed, speed … and, clarity.
Why the hysteria for fast primes? Want to blur the background? Use PS!
I would hardly call a desire for a portrait lens, a most basic component of a lens system, “hysteria”.
And the reason why I shoot Olympus is because I don’t want to spend a bunch of time post processing every photo I take! And besides, I haven’t seen any photo shopped blur that looks as convincing as the real thing.
GH2 allows ISO 3200. If its just for portraits, the 45-200 becomes extremely usable, except for discrete use.
OVhhhf…. Olaf, you talk bad thing in the church 😉
Olaf, the brighter the lens the higher you can get your Shutterspeed. When you are shooting at night or even in doors this is important.
Do you gave any examples of some photos where you blurred the background of a subject in PS without distracting halos or softenned edges? I haven’t seen many. And those that I have seen took far longer to do than to just *snap* with a bright prime….
I have done some very convincing PhotoShop DOF blurring in the past that is very convincing…but it takes a LONG bloody time to do it right. So while it is “possible”, its hardly a substitute for a fast lens.
I’d rather want a fast and sharp 24mm prime than more lenses in the 30-50mm range at the moment…
that said, I would really like to have the following lenses for my ideal m43 system:
a fast f1.4 to f2.0 24mm prime
a fast f1.2 or max f1.8 35-40mm prime
a fast f2.0 or lower 90-105mm prime
a fast f2.0 or max f2.8 24-105 zoom
all the primes i would love to have them as pancakes or relatively small
about the zoom, it should be not bigger than the 14-140mm which is already too big for my tastes; they could offer an HD and non HD version for zoom lenses since the HD technology makes lenses bigger to reduce noise and offer continuous diaphragm apertures…
Little on side, but i hope on Olympus come by 25mm F2.8 soon 😉
Wow I’m really hoping for that “21mm f/1.75”, that would go great with my 20mm 1.7.
Agree so much. Then next logical step must be a 22mm f1.8
.. For sure noone would like a 50mm 1.4 or faster
None. Waiting for a 12mm pancake.
+1
+2
I would like to see a 12mm f2.5 or faster
still would love to see a 7mm UWA, with tilt shift.
None. waiting for a fast 10mm
This is very good news. Primes allow for the lens to be faster and smaller than the full range Zoom. For size thats why Olympus makes the f2.8-3.5, so the lens is smaller than would be if constant 2.8. So you can make specific focus length lenses that are smaller and fast.
If Panasonic is listening I would propose the following lenses:
12mm (Eq 24mm), 14mm (Eq 28mm), 17mm (Eq 35mm), 20mm (they have it), 25mm (Eq 50mm), 35mm (eq 70mm), 43mm (Eq 85mm), 50mm (eq 100mm, 75mm (eq 150mm) and 90mm (eq 180mm). I know thats a lot of Focal lengths, but each one is present in the past and designs exist.
Also most critically, they should release each in a range of max F stops (just like Nikon, Pentax, Canon ete did in the past). If possible F0.95 (for as many as possible!) these should be sharp, but can be large and could be $2000-$5000 price range (just like Canon and Leica offered). Next would be the F1.2 line for as many as possible. Price I would like to see $500-$2000. Then a F1.4 line which should float around $400-$500. Then an F1.8 line that should be cheap $100-$300 depending on lens. Then a F2 pancake line and a F2.8 Macro line for selected lens.
What panasonic could do is offer all lenses indicating the price, then wait for preorder and requests. So they don’t have to make all them at once! This almost seems what they are doing in USA with GH2, just fill the order no surplus! After a couple years of demand, they would then know which ones to ramp up production to have stock of.
Dude. You must be dreaming. A 90mm f0.95? That require a front element that is probably 12cm wide. How would that EVER Af? Also those prices are ridiculously low. Ilove primes, but having this many is weird in the zoom dominated future. It’s costly and tbh would discourage most consumers from buying. Panasonic isn’t aiming for the niche. If anything, Olympus has the opportunity to fulfill the rangefinder-esque niche allowing Panasonic to capture some more of the mainstream.
The 90mm f0.95 would be bigger than 120mm. I did say these would be large and heavy. I also see this being a near $10000 lens, and Yes I would see it sell very well. You have a near 200mm lens at that aperture would be like shooting in a dark church from the back, and still framing in the bridal kiss. Or add a 2x extension on it and you have around f2 400mm lens or with the GH2 2.7 center mode you have 486mm at f0.95. Would be outstanding for video.
In rumor forums its time to dream!!
Is the none, waiting for a pancake lens by OIS ?
as in image stabilisation? I hope Panasonic soon will provide in body stabilisation, like Olympus and Sony.
Most wanting IBIS seem to be forgetting that in body stabilization won’t work with video hence the Pens have to use poorer electronic stabilization for video.
Although Pany has OIS in most of its zoom lenses that need it I would suggest they could provide some form of EI stabilization for use with legacy or primes w/o OIS at little extra cost?
Wish they would speed up R&D&Production!
lens speed is everything, vote for speed, you know it make sence.
Yes why not, a speed converter, maybe 2 stop better lighting!
Olympus have Fisheye, Wide and Macro converter also 😉
I do not care for SOFT high speed lens like the 25mm F0.95
Sharp even F2 12mm is a dream.
Fast 50mm yes please… Or it could be a 40mm for portraits….
🙂
Definitely a 45 or 50 mm 1.4 — Nikon and Canon have them and you can more or less expect them to be the same size. (though on M43 it is 100mm equivalent and great for portraits.)
please produce the prime in these focal length please…
24mm (12mm F2)
50mm (25mm F1.4) its coming 🙂
85/100mm (42/50mm F1.4)
listen to thean chye please!
you are flat wrong “Those info are very detailed and do proof that Panasonic has working prototypes with those characteristics.” all it shows is they have done a calculation and filed a patent to protect a product they have the intellectual ability to release… They may well have none of them made nor make any of them…
12mm or 10.5mm that is sharp and not necessarily fast