As I told you yesterday I am working on many exciting rumors. A-mount mirrorless, new NEX cameras and the new soon to be launched NEX-FF system. And keep inviting you to subscribe the RSS feed (Click here) and Twitter (Click here) stream and the Facebook fan page (Click here). It’s the best way to not miss any of the many(!) rumors to come.
A short note first: Sony is obviously trying to keep a tight secret and I also suspect that they intentionally spread some wrong info to hide the truth. That’s why I ask all sources to be patient. They will not see me post the rumor they send on the same day or week. I will always try to double check them first.
NEX-FF:
I got multiple confirmation Sony is ready to launch the NEX-FF. I have been told of different prototypes that have been tested. For now what I can share with you are two good news I got from one of the sources (hope more sources confirm it soon so that I can upgrade this to SR5):
1) The final price still has not been set yet but the chance is high that the NEX-FF photocamera body will be priced just below the $3,000 mark. Similar to the A99 and way below the only real competitor on market (The Leica M for $7,000).
2) The NEX-FF will feature the Olympus 5 axis stabilization! I still have a hard time to figure out how it was possible to add this on the NEX-FF. Anyway, you probably know that Olympus IBIS is the best on market (and used by the Olympus E-M5). Now imagine all M lenses, FD lenses and all other lenses you can use on the NEX-FF will be stabilized! A dream comes true.
As usual keep your feet on ground till I can upgrade the rumor to SR5. Stay tuned on SAR. More amazing rumors to come soon…
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A note for Leica owners: Obviously I was joking when telling you yesterday that the NEX-FF will kill Leica. Leica still has a unique rangefinder system and build quality. Plus I don’t know how good the Leica M lenses will perform on the new NEX-FF. Leica will continue to exists but they are no more really alone on this world 🙂
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Message to sources: You can send me more info anonymously by using the contact form you see on the very right of your browser. You can also contact me directly at sonyalpharumors@gmail.com.
For readers: Subscribe the RSS feed (Click here) and Twitter (Click here) stream and the Facebook fan page (Click here) in order to not miss any news!
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
191 Responses
Nicely!
$3,000.00 or just under? Please.
Seems like it’s matching an older rumor – that NEX-FF will be more expensive than A99 MSRP.
5 Axis stabilization is not so much of a difficult feat in a NEX body if it just grows slightly thicker (which could be nice). The OM D is a relatively thin camera as well.
The price sounds good but I hope it does not mean cheaper build, materials or quality control. All of which are worth any premium.
I don’t mind if the body is thicker as soon as the lens can fit inside the body. Like the nex7n should do. Exiting news though. But personally I’m more interested in the
SEL 85mm, hopefully 1.4 and OSS,
Admin, any idea if Sony plans to make 100 or 125mm for Nex next year?
no idea yet.
1) So with the RX1, basically you get a free Zeiss. 😮
…in theory. Don’t forget that we’re talking about a FF sensor. Sony had to develop an entirely new steadyshot system for the A900 too, because they had difficulties scaling the existing system up to FF.
Either way, whether it was easy or not, it’s very welcome indeed.
@Zohee35 Umm, wasn’t the a900 built off the KM Dyanx/Maxxum 7D that had the ‘steadyshot’ technology?
As you know, the 7D has an APS-C sensor, not a FF sensor, which was exactly what I explained in my post above.
There was an extensive interview with Sony engineers about the development of the A900 and some of the biggest challenges were the design of a new mirror mechanism and a new stabilization system that could effectively stabilize the much larger FF sensor. Simple scaling up the size of the existing system wasn’t an option.
“some of the biggest challenges were the design of a new mirror mechanism”
But since there’s no mirror on NEX, may be it won’t be THAT hard. Also, A900 was the first fullframe camera with IBIS, it was a new thing. I believe now Sony engineers have more know-how about it which will make things less difficult.
This wasn’t about mirrors to begin with, I just indicated that they felt the A900 IBIS design was one of the larger challenges.
And since this topic is about a completely different IBIS design again, specifically designed for a sensor 4 times smaller (and thus much lighter too), no one knows how easy or hard it is/was to design a similar system for a FF sensor. That’s the point.
KM never produced a FF DSLR, only APSC.
the “5 axis stabilization” is really a misnomer. It’s really 3 axis stabilization, with both rotational and linear motion control on two of the axises.
But five sounds superior to 3 so, there you go…
They’re referring to degrees of freedom rather than co-ordinate space.
Degrees of freedom is commonly used in mechanics and robotics, so its use in a digital camera’s moving components is probably correct, and not just a marketer’s way of counting.
Your explanation sounds good – but ask yourself *why* they chose degrees of freedom instead of axes in co-ordinate space, something more people would understand compared to robotics.
Even if there is a slight connection to robotics (movement of an image sensor instead of a robot arm) I have never seen another company relating the capabilities of their stabilization system, whether IBIS or ILIS, into this discipline.
The truth is probably that they simply took what made them look best – and believe me when I say that marketing departments can get very creative…
(Note that I don’t question that Olympus could be class-leading here – it’s only beside the point.)
I think most companies refer to it in terms of degrees of freedom, pentax refers to their sensor based IS as triple axis even though its only 2 axis and 1 rotational, i think in these cases it makes sense to not sell yourself short, especially for marketing, also it would differentiate your own 3 axis, 5 DoF compared to other 3 axis, 3 DoF stabilization systems anyway 🙂
If you want to nitpick, it’s really just a good old 2 axis stabilization. The sensor moves in a linear fashion only in the vertical and horizontal directions and the other three are tilting the sensor to compensate for angular movement of the camera. There is no movement forwards or backwards.
I wouldn’t mind if Sony took some cues from Samsung Galaxy NX camera (4.8″ screen and Android operating system).
I would!
+1
in did… that would be a rather horrible news.
I would!
Imagine buying a $3000 camera and playing Temple Run 2 on it. 😀
Actually if it is $3,000, then I can imagine buying a Nikon D800 and having a couple of hundred bucks left over… I can’t see any justification for that high of a price on a camera that will be less complicated than a FF DSLR that has the mechanics of an optical viewfinder… If they are aiming at $3,000 dollar price points on a FF then apparently Sony has started imagining that they are Leica where people pay for the name and not the actual product.
Yeah, because the OVF costs “that” much. When you consider that it will be smaller and feature stabilization, I don’t see why it wont’ be priced same as the D800.
You forget, that with the e-mount it is more like a FF – IBIS digital back! You can use almost every lens ever produced! With the right adapter you can also use auto-focus on them! If Sony does a good job with its on sensor phase detection autofocus and you buy an appropriately fast autofocus-adapter the autofocus on for instance Canon EF lenses could be as fast as on a Canon 5D Mark II…
Only problem with that theory is a Nikon owner most likely already has a camera that uses his lenses just as a canon owner already has his camera. If the Sony will accept the Nikon lenses that is great if it costs less than a D800, or has something way better… But the fact is a D800 does all you need so why would you pay a premium to have a Sony to replace your D800 with? The beauty of a nex is it offered a way for Sony to poach Nikon or canon owners because they could avoid the expense of replacing all their lenses… That only made sense if the nex was cheaper not more expensive.
Have you forgotten that smaller systems tend to be MORE expensive? Just compare the price of a desktop PC to a notebook (Both having same specs). Size and portability come at a price.
Sony is playing a game on the same board as Leica. While Nikon or Canon are not even players here. Not even close.
“”Sony is playing a game on the same board as Leica. While Nikon or Canon are not even players here. Not even close.””
As far as Leica and its user base are concerned Sony is just a mass market Japanese electronic company and they will not be in the market for Sony products ever. No matter how good a sensor they make or what camera they wrap it up in in FF markets they are and will always be bit players.The fact that a NEX FF body will be smaller than any FF DSLR is a moot point for anyone shooting lenses above standard focal lengths the longer you go or the faster the lens the larger it becomes. It is a fairly easy task to make smaller wide angle lenses for a mirrorless system physics is against you when you move away from this area.
“As far as Leica and its user base are concerned Sony is just a mass market Japanese electronic company and they will not be in the market for Sony products ever.”
This is patently false. Many Leica users have expressed interest in a full-frame mirrorless, whether as a backup or a replacement: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/291956-sony-nex-ff-leica-m-3.html
Portability, IBIS and high-ISO performance make the Sony superior to the Leica M 240. Probably video performance too. It’s not just about brand loyalty and love of the RF experience and German craft.
“No matter how good a sensor they make or what camera they wrap it up in in FF markets they are and will always be bit players”
sounds like idiot, then why does leica keep pushing their sensor tech? and i’ve heard rumors that they will consider sony. SENSOR is your FILM, no matter how good your M LENS, how fast your silly RF. it will always end up in to SENSOR.
I would!
I would!
There’s not much wrong with the NX concept on paper.. until you realize that in practise:
A) the large screen does or most likely will take away space for dedicated buttons, thus a lack of haptic feedback when opererating the camera, especially when using the viewfinder
B) the touch control is only really useful for operation using the LCD, see additional problems above
C) startup times will never rival those of more simplified operating systems as run on these cameras now. All the additional functionality, useful or not, comes as a cost.
+1. More problems than it solves.
NO GO!!! It’s and should be a Tool, not a Toy.
Andrea, is there any leak concerning the size of this camera? And what about M mount lenses? If it has a NEX shape (no DSLR shape) I’ll save and buy it on day one. Thanks for your work!
I am working on this front too. But I heard it’s not big at all.
Grazie! That would be great! (I can tell my gf that I’ll save a lot of money, buyng this Sony instead of a Leica 😀 )
Excellent! Many thanks Andrea!
If they just add 3 primes à la Contax on the day 1 of lunch… (as Fuji did)
It will be a bomb…
And the most interesting for me (us):
Is there any hope that this approach (IBIS) will be ported to APS-C Nex ? In future?
you can hope 🙂
Yahoooo!!!!
Many thanks Andrea!
I see no problem there… If it is possible for FF it should be possible for APS-C…
Agree… Technically it is not impossible.
But it is not matter of technical possibility… But matter of strategy.
Mainly all the Nex lensse today have OSS already (except the 2 pancakes 16 and 20mm)
Don’t forget the zeiss 24mm, 12mm and 32mm.
Well, if it works with the Voigtlander 15mm I could think about it.
I am not so sure performance will be excellent.
Try google VG900 and Voiglander 15mm, then you will see how good a combination it is.
As people who own this lens know it’s awful. It smears heavily on the corners which can’t be cleaned up in post.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dakw23/8180002529/sizes/o/in/set-72157631993239568/
Admin do you have any hints, that there will also be a APS-C E-Mount NEX with 5 axis stabilization?
So what’s the difference between this and the proposed A-Mount mirrorless, besides the lenses?
shape. A-mount is bigger and will focus on ergonomy and has a wider availabilty of lenses.
The price is reasonable, thanks admin for the valuable info. Now I planned all my purchases by coming to SARs.
If I am wrong you kill me 🙂
Sure I will 🙂
And when Varn is done, I will be the next guy to kill you. 😉
me , too !
Any idea of the focal length of that prime? I suppose zoom will be 28-85mm…
not sure yet. But I heard it’s Zeiss (which means expensive).
do these lenses have aperture rings?
don’t know.
thank you, was asking because i’m trying to work out which direction they’re going with this cam, RX or NEX
Please SONY make it happen!!! The Aperture ring on the lenses would make it very easy to differentiate between APS-C only and FF lenses.
Thanks! I hope it’s wide and fast :).
A 35mm f1.4 distagon would be AMAZING!!!
35mm f/2 Sonnar 😉 or they might re-use ZM Biogon
too good to be true. hope i’m wrong.
Ah, great. So $3000 in the beginning, which of course translates to €3100 or 3200… I’ll wait 4 months for the darling to drop to 2500$, which will translate to roughly € 2000 if you happen to use a USA trip for shopping…
So factoring in sony tax, we’re looking at £3000?
my thoughts exactly – which means you can save for a bit longer and get Leica M (240) which gives you both worlds – EVF + Live view and also classic RF operation – up to you, but with it you have essentially 2 cameras in 1.
I think the price pattern will follow Rx1 rather than A99, which means it will sustain the initial launch price for a long, long time.
If it’s compact, gets IBIS, nice OSPDAF and a FF 36Mpix sensor, then it will be the most desireable camera around and bcome an instant classic and keeping its prices for a long time – hands down!
tech specs don’t make cameras ‘classic’ – those are just specs, it’s the execution and form of execution. they can have whatever spec they want if it will be pain in the ass to use
What makes them a classic then…their soul?!?
With the history the NEX cameras already have, and Sony pulls it off with all these additions then its a born classic, as it will be a first of this side of a Leica.
The RX1 became a classic the day it was announced. Never had the world seen such sofiticated fixed lens camera.
No cameras are perfect and all have their quirks, but we do have classics.
And six months later they introduce the “R” variant without an anti-alias filter…
I will buy it in a heartbeat if it works decently with my M lenses.
That’s my hope too! If it has a NEX shape (read small body) it can crush Leica. Honestly I don’t mind of new lenses (don’t really need it), but using legacy M mount lenses would be enough and great. In time I might add Zeiss lenses, but being so expensive (easy guessing..) and not necessary, I can wait.
Will the only differences between E-mount and A-mount systems be body thickness and body style?
Bigger battery, bigger buffer..bigger everything.
Well the NEX-7 successor is rumored to get a bigger grip and the battery know from the Alpha range. I would guess it will be the same for the FF NEX
Still A-mount will have “bigger, better, bigger” – major selling point of NEX is it’s small size, so even if they’ll make it bigger – it won’t be as comfortable as A-mount camera. Not to mention lack of VG with additional batteries inside.
Except IBIS, same like now.
The biggest difference is the universal nature of this camera. Thats a HUGE difference especially to users of other systems.
Apart from the small percentage of the overall market taken up by enthusiasts who want to adapt other lenses and shoot manual focus. It is never going to be a deal breaker lets face it anyone buying $3000 + camera body is pretty likely to have all the glass they need with full AF. The reason that this was somewhat more popular in Nex mount was down to the previously poor choice and quality of lenses
Over 90% of people will not switch to sony from thier current system. Now they can.
Over 90% of lenses people own hsve no oss and the rest have only 2 axis oss.
Huge potential new customer base.
Even sony users will want to buy this camera.
A dream come true.
Isn’t body thickness part of the body style? What other differences could there be?
Thickness is part of the style, but if you think of the NEX 7 you have a flat top with an offset viewfinder, in the case of the A77 you have a top that is not flat to hold the viewfinder above the LCD. You could have a flat top thick body and side finder as well. I expect the A-mount will retain the pseudo-DSLR look and the NEX the pseudo-rangfinder look.
Take my money now before I spend it. Sony please open a pre-order to take deposits asap. Thanks.
FF nex lenses will probablly be non oss I would guess.
Sigma snd Tamron make a 70-300macro f4-5.6 that focuses to 1/2 at 300mm
I would love to see a faster mayby f2.8-3.5 high quality lens like this. The macro at 300mm would be the most important feature and image quality should be optimized for best performance at the 300mm focal length.That would be my dream lens.
Im sure it would be a little big and heavy but it would be worth it.
Another killer lens would be a high quallity mirror lens if say about 1000mm. This should be high quality not another low quality cat. An off axis desighn would be a challenge but worth it.
These would be challenging new lens desighns but I look at it this way.
Now that we have a universal camera the next challenge is to make lenses that are so unique that people will want that lens and not a competitors lens.
By leveling the playing field the result should be better lenses.
correct, but competitor lenses will most likely be MF legacy lenses. therefore sony lenses will always have the advantage of AF. and if the sensor has pdaf, that might still be a huge advantage that justifies the higher price tag.
COME ON SONY DO IT KNOW BEFORE THE WORLD END!!!!!
If this new NEX-FF has the 5-axis, I’m in.
I hope Sony makes this the ultimate hybrid–swivel EVF,class leading video quality, and relatively compact. Oh yea, and multi-mount (including m4/3).
Am I asking for too much?
you want a NEX-FF to use m4/3 lenses.
you must be trolling.
m4/3 lenses in crop mode? Why not? Use zooms for smaller sensors, primes for FF and you’ll get compact system and top quality when you need it…
sure, but I would not consider that to be a priority, even because the pictures you would get would be of rather low resolution.
I also consider using APSC lenses on NEX-FF as being something that I would do if and only if I had no other alternative. I would never buy additional APSC lenses to use them on NEX-FF.
what I am trying to say is, that kind of mount would be a costly feature from which sony could extract little to no profit.
mFT lenses are designed to cover a sensor a quarter the size of FF even some of their supposedly superior options like the Panasonic 25mm have noticeable vignetting even on a mFT sized sensor.To get the same crop factor as mFT the camera would have to be cropped by a quarter better have plenty MP if thats your wish lol
This is a FF camera.
Why would you want to put a micro4/3 lens on it.
The vignetting would be so bad you would have a round image in a black pigment circle.
Those that work in weddings, corporate galas and functions, would know why having m4/3 compatibility would be beneficial.
could you please explain because I guess i’m not getting it. why would you want to use m43 lenses on full frame? m43 is less than half frame of the full frame so you’re dealing with the less than half resolution.
M43 is one quarter the area of 135. Let’s hear how that compatibility would help.
crop factor 2x means the sensor is 1/4 the area of a FF sensor, I guess.
@mkln – bloody hell, I didn’t know that m43 is that small – I thought it’s only slightly smaller than APS-C
I do not understand. Please explain.
I shoot weddings…I have no desire to use crop lenses on ff body.
For you, is it for file size or to be discreet during the reception?
I shot wedding and corporate functions with a Canon 20D (8 megapixels) and the clients were more than satisfied. If Sony brings out a 36MP FF then in crop mode, it would leave you with 9MP. For most of what a client would want (mostly for internet) this is more than satisfactory. Even a 24MP FF would still be usable in crop mode.
If I’m shooting the bride and groom and the shot has potential for a large print, then I’d want to mount my 85mm or 135mm and go full-frame. It would be nice to carry to identical bodies each using a blend of lenses from both formats.
Video on the other hand could easily be accommodated by crop or full-frame mode.
Even if your needs are currently being met at what appears to be a very modest quality level it would still probably be in your best interrest to up your standards. You can always res down if necessary.
If you invest in a full frame camera full frame lenses are your best bet for the long term.
Being a universal camera you can of course use what you have to start but I would gradually start moving up.
Start with the one lens you think you will use most.
You can even stsrt with used and since you do not need oss you can get a lot of lens for not a llot of money.
The D800 (36MP as you probably know) has a crop-mode with 15MP.
Pease note
I am in no way criticizing your work.
Its just that if you do the same quality of work with better equipment the results should be even better.
There’s no degradation of quality, just resolution. It doesn’t make it less competitive. You have to work a little smarter.
@Atlasman there will be a relative loss of quality, as a 4mpx 100% crop will look worse than a 4mpx downscale from full res
By using aps-c lenses on a full frame body, you will be unable to achieve shallower depth of field (the smaller the sensor the deeper the DoF). Given that you’re paying extra for the larger sensor and shallower DoF, I’m not sure why you would throw that away. It’s better to use an sRAW mode on a ff camera or save some cash and go aps-c. Plus, for me, the ability to zoom/crop after the fact for wedding/event photos is valuable so I appreciate the full resolution.
The 20d is some old tech, and it was prosumer at it’s peak. My intention is not to denigrate your work, but if a 20d is your primary camera are you offering low budget wedding packages?
By the way, once you upgrade from your 20d you’ll wonder how you ever used that postage-stamp sized rear lcd (I did when I upgraded from it when the 5d2 came out).
$3k is too much for me. At that price point, I’ll be waiting for (and looking forward to) the $1k a77/NEX7-equivalent APS version.
Pricing doesn’t seem insane, perhaps, but it may have a hard time competing with a D600/D6. I understand specs aren’t identical, but it will need something really special to differentiate it.
IBIS coming to NEX is exciting.
honestly, d600 and 6d are completely different cameras. NEX-FF is THE definition of exciting…
anyway if the price is high at launch, it does not need to stay at that level forever. and new FF mirrorless cameras from other competitors are also likely to come out in the future. which will lower the price.
the only question is when
It depends on how you look at it and what you want out of life. Most of my lenses are just shy of 600 grams. With an a77, that’s about 1.2kg total weight. With a NEX7, that’s about 1kg, including adapter. It’s noticeable, but not a killer, if you have good glass. If you have plastic glass, it’s a bigger difference, but at that point, I’ll reach for my RX100. To me, the size of the NEX is a clear win, but not a deal maker.
Regardless, I don’t have $3k to spend on a camera. $2k would be pushing it. $1.5k would be a strain, but I’d probably buy it. $1k is a no-brainer. That puts me in 7-series category in Sony, and D600/6D category in Canikon.
I’m not saying NEX9 is a bad camera — it’s an exciting product. At $3k, though, I have to wait for NEX7 v2/3, NEX9 v2, or NEX9 discounted after a year or two. I’m in no rush to upgrade. I cannot imagine the NEX7 v2/3 being too expensive. With IBIS and adapters, it’s a clear win:
* Three control knobs.
* Speedbooster (hopefully, with Alpha-compatibility soon).
* IBIS.
* On-sensor PDAF.
At $1k, this would be a no-brainer combo for me.
Something special:
a) Much smaller body vs FF DSLR.
b) (I assume) Short flange distance to allow mounting of most lenses with adapters.
Also, I wonder if the next flagship APC-S NEX will still be $1k if they manage to add IBIS and other goodies to it.
It’s an insult to compare it with a D600/6D.
I’ve done 1 week travels in large cities by holding my NEX-7 in one hand all day (with SEL18200LE and SEL35 lenses) without any sort of fatigue. You can operate (in A or M mode) and carry it in one hand with out problems and with two lenses you hardly need a bag to carry it, try that with a FF DSLR.
Compare it with a Leica M.
Agreed. The NEX definitely shines in portability.
The Nex body may shine in portability but beyond wide angle the lens size will have to be close to FF sizes it is simple physics if you only shoot wide angle primes or very slow zooms then that’s fine. If however you want to shoot longer or faster then the lenses will be just about as large as any other FF system , there are reasons why RF style bodies never had long lenses or fast zooms
The reason is viewfinder and that’s it. Look through VF on a Leica and check ho small is frame for 90mm.
While that is correct for old school film RF,we are now in the digital age lol, there is also the lens size to consider above 75mm the lens sizes of mirroless FF get closer and closer to FF DSLR lenses assuming same speed and quality that is a simple fact a 70-200MM f2.8 for a Nex FF would be all but identical in size to a DSLR 70-200mm F2.8. The lens size needed will be the Achilles heel of any FF mirrorless little point in having a tiny body if you need the same size of lenses beyond a couple of wide -standard primes.
while i don’t argue that large and long lenses will be similar size for mirrorless as they would be for DSLRs, remember that not everyone needs or wants long lenses or big apertures. primes are faster than fast zooms anyway, and there are plenty of fast primes that would match the size of FF CaNikon lenses while still being a fraction of the size
I’m into Bird photog. and tote a Nikon 500 f4 p (old manual focus, but cost 1/4th newer 500 f4) with a Nex7 attached. Great combo if you can live with manual. Only 2 weaknesses – no stabilization and so-so high ISO vs. FF. Weighs hardly more than the (3Kg) lens alone, so I can hand hold longer than most birds stay put.
A FF NEX w/ IBIS is a huge upgrade. 3K is more than I’d like, but if sensor and IBIS are both DSLR class leading it would be hard to argue something close to 3K isn’t a fair/competitive price. As long as it isn’t too heavy it will eventually lighten my wallet….
Bumpy – if these are only two weaknesses for you than you have really, REALLY low requirements.
The price of FF cameras will slowly go down as the manufacturing process for these big sensors gets to be routine.
It seems that SAR may have been an important factor in the development of this camera.
SAR did some polling about the a/e hybrid and got very negative feedback.
SAR also did a poll on what features we wanted
I believe this helped shape the direction of this camera.
ANDREA. good work
SONY it may be premature but..good work (subject to revision if you screw up).
Here Sony may have the real winner. Hope it is a carry-over of genes from the RX line and offering real HQ lenses with it, not many but the right ones.
Wonder if Fujifilm will come up with something similar? The X-trans concept would benefit from a higher resolution sensor for sure.
I’d like a full-frame E-mount with A-mount adapter too.
5-axis IBIS for all legacy optics ftw.
With this news, could we still hope for some FF emount lenses with OSS so that they would be stabilized across both the new IBIS FF NEX bodies as well as existing and future NEX cropped bodies?
Hey Andrea (and everybody here) 🙂
About the Leica lens performing on a FF Nex, I tried it a few month ago and write a quick article on it. I’m sorry because it’s in french, but the pictures will speak by themselves.
In french :
http://www.lesnumeriques.com/camescope/sony-nex-vg900-p16043/sony-nex-plein-format-avons-teste-n28888.html
In (approximately) english (through google translate) :
http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lesnumeriques.com%2Fcamescope%2Fsony-nex-vg900-p16043%2Fsony-nex-plein-format-avons-teste-n28888.html
Enjoy, and start saving now, because my guess is there will be nothing to worry about the future Nex FF image quality.
Salute!. You only tested the summilux 50. The issue for both Leica and NEX cameras is shorter focal length (<=35mm) lenses.
For instance, the cv15 on a NEX7 turns everything purple,
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/nexcolorshift-680×453.jpg
On the VG900 the corners are badly smeared.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dakw23/8180002529/sizes/o/in/set-72157631993239568/
On film this lens is equal to the Nikon 14-24/2.8 in resolution and color.
I see no reason for a quality FF NEX to be much cheaper than a premium FF DSLR from Canikon like the D800. I’m willing to pay around $3k. All 4 FF DSLR I’ve ever bought were all above $3k. This is actually where most of the FF market is.
I wasn’t going to replace my NEX-7 anytime soon, but if the FF NEX delivers the goods and won’t be more expensive than the RX1, then I will get it ASAP.
My legacy lenses will love it, I may get the announced glass unless it’s crazy prices and the NEX-7 can become the back-up camera.
Any word on weather-sealed/waterproof yet?
This nex ff camera have a Global shutter? I think This would be the terrific rumors
I very much doubt that. Global shutters are harder to implement as sensor size increases. Thus we’ll see the introduction go bottom up, smallest sensors first etc.
Not to mention on CMOS sensors.
Is the sensor featuring any new tech that handles better the extreme light incidence angle to sensor? (typically FF and wide angle lenses) … Or it is still a classical Xmor.
PLEASE SONY KILL LEICA!!!!
No Sony should buy Leica, re-use all their lenses and then using their excellent sensors and excellent Zeiss and Leica lenses kill Canon and Nikon! Or maybe keep them alive, no competition is not good either.
Sony can’t buy Leica. It’s the private company with very good profits. Whoever owns it – won’t sell a goose that laid the golden eggs.
Nobody should wish for any camera company to be killed.
Leica are needed to set a standard for manufacturing quality and lens design.
Will the new A-mount cameras incorporate the Olympus based IBIS as well? Any reports on the performance of the focusing system? That is one of the main concerns I have with both Nex and A-mount. That and how Sony seems to get a little cheap on the processing power of their cameras.
Sony went through a lot of effort to get this system. If course they will use it.
This all sounds awesome but the real question is does it handle symmetrical lens designs better than the VG900?! I believe it will but Sony could miss the boat if it doesn’t. Oh, and I won’t be dropping $3k immediately but the price sounds very reasonable. At that price, and those rumored specs, they will sell a boat load.
Why is that the real question!??!
The Voigtlander 15mm works fine, along with many other range finder lenses on the NEX-VG900. If a few suffer from a bit of colour cast (which the Leica M probably also can) is that a big issue?
The cv15 on a NEX7 turns everything purple,
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/nexcolorshift-680×453.jpg
On the VG900 the corners are badly smeared.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dakw23/8180002529/sizes/o/in/set-72157631993239568/
Leica has spent millions engineering it’s offset microlenses and then other tricks to make these lenses work
As John pointed out the CV15 has issues on a number of NEX bodies. On the APS-C NEX bodies there is certainly a strong color cast which some users feel is OK with a program like corner fix and others have issues. If the new NEX FF is on par with the NEX-5N (but full-frame) then it might be workable–after all the M9 (and I assume the M240) use lens profiles and digital correction. However, if the corners are smeared like the VG900, no amount of digital correction will compensate for the loss of optical quality.
With few, if any, native lenses at launch the NEX FF will depend on 3rd party lenses like the RF lenses from Leica, CV, and Zeiss (ZM). Many of these lenses perform poorly on the VG900. I think most potential buyers of the NEX FF will not be happy solely with adapted A-mount lenses and I think Sony knows that. At least I hope they do. Somedays I really think the rangefinder friendly sensor in the 5N was a fluke that Sony didn’t anticipate themselves.
Selling my kidney and part of my liver now – interested buyers send me an email. Gotta start saving money for this wonderful piece of kit.
1. Does it have phase detect sensor?
2. How big do you think the lenses are going to be.
3. Does it have built in evf?
4. Can I give sony my money right now?
I auto moderate my previous comment that is still awaiting moderation: PLEASE SONY TAKE LEICA BACK TO EARTH, KILL’EM ECONOMICALLY! They must comprehend that 7000$ for a camera that is so limitied in a lot of aspects is out of this world! You cannot pay a brand that high! And the only way is produce a cheaper and competitive fullframe camera with the very best lenses (Zeiss)! So be careful with prices Sony….
You don’t get it.
Certain people buy a Leica simply because it is a Leica.
For them Sony is just another Japanese tech companies that sells faceless black boxes with lots of buttons – regardless how powerful they are.
These are the kind of people that buy those $20,000 hi-fi amps with a single knob (for volume). Preferably made out of exotic woods. 😉
So, the truth is, whatever Sony brings onto the table it’ll never be a competing product for lots of Leica customers.
They didnt buy the Lunar even though it was Hasselblad.
LOL
No, they won’t buy the Lunar because it’s a Sony in a pimp outfit!
The Leica lovers with too much money instead bought this:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/10/leica-hermes-m9-p/
i want to buy a Leica because its a rangefinder and they’re (sadly) one of the only people do digital ones, so far i’m working my way up and I have a voigtlander film camera with some leica lenses, its not always about the brand, its about getting the enjoyment out of a simple manual focusing method and satisfaction accompanied by intuitive button/knob layout (which the RX1 has done really well also)
and by people I ofcourse mean company 😛
See, you also have your own good reasons – but most people in this thread are operating on the wrong premise: They use logic and rationalize their purchased. This is fine for their finances (probably ;-)) but not the reason why Leica is successful.
Leicas are sold to people that either want to have a “Leica” and most of them are filthy rich or at least very well doing and most of them aren’t exactly young anymore.
Of course there are photo students who love Paris in the fifties and picture themselves in some nostalgic situations – and for those only a Leica makes sense (such clowns like Kai Wong from DigitalRev are in this boar).
Others see Leica as a photo pioneer and want to uphold a tradition and other want to use a relatively small rangefinder with a limited choice of lenses and stuff and not a system where they have too much selection in lenses. For them this isn’t about choice but complexity.
So everybody has their own right reasons (and I criticize none of them) but one should always ask if the prices are within range (pun intended)…
exactly, it’s about RF focusing – it’s so intuitive and once you get used to it it’s very very fast (M6 user here with Voigtlander glass)
If the price is same as A99 comes with 5 axis IBIS and on sensor AF as good as SLT Sony will not be able to make them fast enough
😉
Have a look at any of the camera sales charts BCN Japan , Amazon USA/UK/USA ,CIPA etc and tell me where you see the A99 flying off the shelves compared to Nikon or Canon DSLR options
Amazon I lost interest after the first 200 cameras}
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-SLRs-Cameras-Photo/b/ref=amb_link_358884302_17?ie=UTF8&node=3017941&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-leftnav&pf_rd_r=D18DD020DCF34D378145&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1573302142&pf_rd_i=502394
B&h List of top selling FF models { 23rd spot behind all the big boys }
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Format_Full-Frame&ci=6222&N=4288586280+4131729766
BCN Japan surely home market , nope not in the top 80 selling cameras a list which includes 41 dslrs
http://dslrphoto.com/dslr/space.php?do=jranking
Before the troll nonsense starts I am a Sony A99/nex 7 user and while I get the advantages of Sony FF i also had the A900 it is very clearly a tiny niche market within overall FF sales which are themselves a niche market.
“boat”, not “boar” – LOL
I am referring to the rumored FF NEX NOT sales of A99 NEX7 or any other camera made by Sony but thanks for all the well worn stats.
😉
I hope that Sony really gets its head out of the ground when it comes to A-mount lenses. I would love to go with a Sony 35mm Full Frame camera with the A99 or its mirror-less successor, but the problem I have is the lack of Sony-branded 35mm FF lenses. They are just NOT there. Yet, I look at the Canon 6D with the EF L lenses. They are there, and they are also dust/moisture sealed.
I’d love to buy into the Sony A-mount world, but unless they bring out more 35mm FF lenses I cannot do so. I am ready to buy my first DSLR in the Fall, and I want to go 35mm FF instead of APS-C. I have that choice.
23 FF Sony lenses currently in production. While not marketed as dust/moist free, there are plenty examples out there that they they take pretty extreme beating in snow storms, sea waves, rain and sand storms.
And Sigma adds some excellent new glass, Minolta excellent used glass.
Try having a look at the new sigma 35mm f1.4, its FF, and very good performance and good price! sadly, its not weather sealed though
isn’t it a little bit to big and heavy for a compact mirrorless?
“Now imagine all M lenses, FD lenses and all other lenses you can use on the NEX-FF will be stabilized! A dream comes true.”
I don’t want to disappoint you, but you are aware of that the camera needs to know the lens specs, in particular the focal length, for IBIS, isn’t it? In other words: IBIS works with all /system/-lenses…
why not user selectable? Fuji have done a user selectable focal length for their viewfinder box in the Xpro-1 OVF,Leica M240 has user selectable lens correction which can be defined by the user.
I wouldn’t mind it as a simple step for me to do as a user to improve IBIS performance
If this camera has IBIS then I will leave A-mount since I don’t tend to use large lenses that much which is were using a A-mount would come in handy. I also know sigma will make some awesome lenses at a fair price so I am hoping.
I just don’t believe that the NEX will have IBIS unless its the hybrid mount and the IBIS is for A mount only.
I just don’t believe they can make laptops so thin that it is able to fit in a envelope! then BAM, mac book air, ultrabooks…
things change, technology improves, whether this rumor is true or not is yet to be seen, but someday FF compact IBIS cameras will be achievable anyway, its just a matter of when, and whether or not Sony will be the first to do it 😀
It’s not like a thin laptop appeared from nowhere, they progressively got smaller over time. IBIS in a NEX does not exist and Sony have said its not possible, so I am skeptical. But Sony are great at surprises, look at he RX1.
Sony we have been told has spread deliberately untrue rumers in order to maintain secracy.
Any statement that something is impossible (which is a very popular line of reasoning on sar) is nonsence. Noyhing is impossible and what we cant or wont do today we will tomorrow.
This seems to be a popular myth among naive electronics users (:-)). The list of things that are impossible today *and* the current solutions will not improve greatly due to basic constraints set by laws of physics is quite long.
Just to mention a few:
– a telephoto lens 1200mm F1.0 weighing 100grams (basic optical and mechanical limits)
– a battery running my phone for a year on one chagrge and weighing less than 50g (basic charge density vs. specific mass of metals).
Chris
I heard on the news recently about a newly discovered recharcheable lithium ion battery that can power your cell phone for a week st a time, recharge in 2 minutes and jump start your car in an emergency.
The claim was 30x the charge of current lithium ion batterry. Should ne in production in a few years.
I heard it on either cbs or abc news about a month ago.
Dont know if its true or not but be carefull what you call impossible.
No news yet about your 1200mm f1 lens.
Mirrorless Nex Full Frame with IBIS?
….
THE PERFECT CAMERA HAS ARRIVED.
What flash system shall they be testing with this new camera?
5-AXIS stablization would be a challenge for FF, I’d assume it consumes more battery power than a99!
Without OVF, the FF-NEX would need probably 2-3 batteries!
On sensor PDAF is pretty slow compared to DSLR!
But anyway, thanks Sony for giving a new life for my Contax lenses!
One battery same as a99
and 300 shots. lol
beats 36
Nex Full Frame with five axis IS is really good But if Sony ignores to include a rotating touch screen with touch focus like 70D, … doesn’t make it too good.
Nex is compact and simple.
A complicated screen like that would ne better for the larger a mount version.
I am not a fan of touch screen they tend to do things i dont tell them to do and are awckward.
My cell phone is touch screen thats why my typing is so bad.
At least it needs a tilting screen. And for god’s sake SONY!!! please fix the Video , I bought the RX1 only to be really disappointed by it’s video capabilities being inferior to even the cheap RX100. Canon has already the possibility to shoot raw video.
$3k for a FF NEX. Get real people!
It won’t be 3k. Most likely something around 2800.
Sony: Please add these features to the NEX-FF camera:
1) Crop modes! Similar to the way the Nikon D4 has crop modes. Preferably 1.2x, 1.5x, 2x and 3x. Have a dedicated button for crop modes too! This will become the quickest “lens” change on the planet!
2) Dual or relay recording using SD Card!
3) Make White Balance Shift a separate function. I hate the way the White Balance Shift is a drill-down option from White Balance. It is way too clunky to use.
4) Ensure that all manual controls are adjustable during movie recording!!
5) PLEASE PLEASE put a microphone 3.5mm jack!
6) Put a BIG EVF that gives the same performance as using a Zacuto viewfinder! This would be a dream so I don’t have to haul a clunky Zacuto viewfinder around!
7) Make the in-camera stabilization usable even on a tripod! No more weird jittering like on the SLT Alpha’s.
And please make the menu GUI quick and responsive. No need for any fancy animations similar to Nikon and Canon.
But will it have a Viewfinder? That’s the deal breaker/maker for me. No built-in VF=not interested.
If the the RX1 had a VF, I would’ve been first to pre-order. Hopefully Sony doesn’t make the same mistake again.
(And no- a bulky, bulbous, overpriced add on external VF is not an option. Those things look ridiculous)