As you know the new Sony CEO Hirai forced a complete revamp of the A-mount strategy. The planed release of the A78, and FF SLT cameras has been deleted in order to focus resources and push the development of the new generation A-mount mirrorless cameras. So here are some general info I got form very high trusted sources:
1) I have been told that 2014 will be THE YEAR for A-mount. It means that Sony is aware that they have to succeed in the High End camera market to make profit. And Sony does believe that the DSLR form factor and the A-mount are the key success to achieve this gold (and not small E-mount cameras).
2) First A-mount mirrorless FF and APS-C cameras to hit the market in early 2014. They will be all mirrorless but maintain the current DSLR form factor.
3) AF, EVF and other key aspects have been considerably improved. The sensor is definitely 30+ megapixel and with phase detection pixels on sensor.
4) The cameras are not cheap. So I have been told 🙁 Anyway, if they are really good than this aspect can be not so important anymore.
5) As I told you before Sony expects a great increase in A-mount lens sales for 2014 due of the impact of the new A-mount cameras.
Now let’s hope this become true! Meantime stay tuned on SAR on June 27. Big RX camera announcement day coming!
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257 Responses
great “news” for A-mount enthusiasts… looks like FF E-mount may be a bit longer wait 🙁
Not at all. This rumour in no way affects E-mount users or people waiting for FF E-mount camera. Perhaps with exception of these who hoped for E-mount version of GH3.
Very excited!
+1 Let us see some innovation! 🙂
Without significant list of advantages over canikon all these are just marketing talk, what sony really need is to fill some of the holes in the A-mount lineup
Does this mean they will not have the cheaper option anymore ? (like the SLT APS-C A-mount cameras for instance)
form what I ehard there is no cheap option. But I dind’t get the full roadmap yet.
I hope Sony haven’t gotten into some of the gorilla dung the execs at Sigma were smoking when they set the price for the SD1.
These cameras truly have to be game changers for them to charge more than CaNikon and expect to have “great increase in A-mount lens sales in 2014”
Cautiously optimistic but expecting just the usual Sony hype and arrogance.
:-/
I am confident that the cameras will get cheap quickly. It is not a major change from the SLT’s at all, and the production will be easier and much cheaper. No SLT, no second AF sensor necessary, not mechanics for focus finetuning….. not to talk about all expensive mechanics that is in the competitor’s SLR bodies. I expect that the price will drop significantly after the initial early adopters prices that have to pay for the development costs.
We might end up with the same story of Nikon selling the same sensor for $1000 less.
As Sony are removing the mirrors and AF unit then any increase in price should only be down to the cost of the new sensor and improved EVF.
@ George:
Sony previously stated that the on sensor PDAF uses a lot of processing power. If that’s going to be the main AF system combined with more than 30MP, faster EVF refresh rates etc., then another important cost driver can be the processors and memory, to provide sufficient speeds.
Luckily, the cost of processors is falling fairly quickly and quite reliably.
” And Sony does believe that the DSLR form factor and the A-mount are the key success to achieve this go[al] (and not small E-mount cameras)”
I haven’t read all 190+ comments so some may have something similar to say.
Sony is dreaming big time !!
Does Sony expect Canikon to remain idle and let Sony do all the innovation ? Is Canon’s M-mount or Nikon’s C-mount as successful as Sony’s E-mount ? Do Canikon or Sony expect all pro photogs to carry DSlr form factor bodies and heavy lenses to their ‘graves’ ? Wake up Sony before Fuji’s X-mount or Samsung’s NX-mount grab more market share from your E-mount !! Sony, innovate more with your E-mount … your full frame E-mount will be a success but Sony, you’ve got to have more and higher quality E-mount lenses !
Will it happen this time, a new fantastic camera from Sony… We have heard it so many times, make it true, please.
exactly what I’m going to say. Sony has made so many beautiful bubbles in the past days. As A-99, so exciting when the specs were “leaked”. Eventually it came out, still good camera, but not as good as expected, too pricey, and…too late.
They are going to miss a huge opportunity by not going with the E mount FF. I guess they will let others beat them to this market and realise too late.
Only if Samsung come out with a larger sensor mirrorless compact. Remember, it was Samsung’s entry with their NX that forced Sony to introduce the NEX. Let us hope Samsung do.
Samsung had nothing to do with Sony entry into mirrorless market. These cameras take years to design and develop. Sony entered the market only 3 months after Samsung. It’s impossible that Sony could design and do large sale production in this short time.
My money is on Fuji
my money has been with fuji for almost two years now
It’s not a ‘huge’ opportunity, there’s a very niche market for an FF NEX
It’s not only a niche. An E-Mount FF-NEX can adapt A-Mount and M-Mount lenses (and many others) as well so it would most propably have a much bigger demand. An A-Mount mirrorless can only use A-Mount lenses and the chance to let users switch over are propably significantly lower.
The only disadvantage of FF-NEX may be the missing space for an in body image stabilization but that would be a price I would pay without hesitate.
IMHO this strategy was only choosen to promote A-Mount lens sales and perhaps sell two FF-bodies to enthusiasts within one year, when the FF-NEX follows on photokina 2014.
+1 I can understand *wanting* to sell more lenses but they will get more people to switch systems if they can bring their own lenses with them. THEN when they love the system they will start experimenting with Sony/Zeiss glass and if they find it a better value they will continue to invest. Sony has to be not just a far better camera but a far better VALUE to win pros over.
it looks like i’m not the only one then who sees this as completely missed opportunity
I don’t get it either. If they’ve already removed the OVF and they are now removing the mirror, and you can put an A mount on a NEX, what do you need an SLR body for? Is it just because Sony thinks that people expect a pro level camera to be SLR shaped?
Sounds like 2014 may be THE year for me to switch to Fuji.
SQLGuy: I hear you. Fuji seems committed to the pro/prosumer mirrorless market. I wasn’t blown away like some with the XPro1 but it looks like with the X100s that Fuji is moving quickly in the right direction as far as speed and usability go. Especially if they release a full-frame with the new organic CMOS sensor.
I also don’t get it. To make an analogy, what advantages would the Panasonic GH-3 have if it were thicker (ie, had a 4/3 mount and not a m43 mount)?
There is nothing wrong with designing an E-mount camera with a much larger grip and a larger and centered viewfinder (incl. eyecup). Or simply taking the A99 housing and only make thinner around the mount (such that it can mount E-mount lenses).
I agree. The real opportunity would be to let pros use all their lenses on a top of the line new Sony. That requires E-mount. E-mount doesn’t carry any absolute rule that they can’t make bodies slightly larger if that’s what they need for IBIS.
+1. Sony are encumbered by business models that involve trying to lock the consumer into their system by tying lenses to bodies through mount incompatibility.
They don’t realize that the flexibility of a truly open system with support for EF, F, M and Native lenses would be the killer feature that would drive sales to the level Sony want. Think of the convergence around the open spec of the IBM/PC in the early 1990s.
I think it’s now up to Fuji, Ricoh or Leica to steal the market.
Hot Deal: Canon EOS 6D – $1,599 … any comments sony? Any plans to make me happy?
Doesn’t sound like Sony are interested in doing a cheap full frame to take on CaNikon. They are continuing to make the HUGE mistake of thinking that they are an aspirational brand, they will fail as usual.
I bet Sony will fail with this A-mount approach :). Very few people really needs this.
Why Nex with FF? The Nex approach is to carry a small camera with small lenses with you. It’s better to enable RXx to changes lenses, like Leica do.
Uhm… RX with interchangeable lens would be NEX, would it be not? ô_O
Mmmhhh it depends… 🙂
For me the Nex system is a camera for always take with you. From entry level until ambitious users with good APS-C sensor, good small lenses.
The RX could something like the Leica M line. More for photojournalism use cases.
And for Studio, Sports or Fashion it should be an entry level camera to a 30+ fast camera beast, vertical grip and good flash system.
But this is only my desire.
But why develop a whole new mount for that? E-mount is well equipped because it can accommodate a full-frame sensor and it has the short flange distance. A-mount is a no go because of the DSLR-style flange, which can’t be changed without making all the existing lenses incompatible.
What you’re suggesting is essentially a marketing strategy. A mirrorless full-frame camera with high-quality, artistic primes. Sony’s not going to support a third mount.
The RX can be an e-mount FF. I do not mind. I see it as user centered approach depending on specific user roles. For me it’s not a marketing strategy. The RX series has a classic interaction pattern… and that’s good! The Nex line has to go a different way with other camera design approach and small fast lenses.
E-mount has enough mechanical interference with a FF sensor that FF e-mount lenses will essentially be the same size as A-mount lenses with adapter, so there won’t be much size advantage. That’s why RX1 is fixed lens. Size.
@GH: Not true. The limiting factor is the angle of incidence. Most rangefinder wide-angles were designed for film which is very forgiving in that way. Hence many of them look terrible on the VG900 (the EXISTING full-frame NEX still camera in a camcorder body); however, lens designs that are more retro-focal and/or not as wide work very well. For example the Planar 50mm or the CV 35mm f1.2. The CV 35mm f1.2 is not a small lens but it is much smaller than a DSLR 35mm f1.2–oh, wait there isn’t one.
Fuji’s new sensor tech seems to have improved the angle on incidence of a CMOS sensor by a considerable margin. It stands to reason that Sony’s organic hybrid may as well.
So the idea is to build something like the GH3 with even better autofocus that is backwards compatible to all A-Mount lenses, something that appeals to the professional market with a better grip, better lens selection and better button layout than the NEX system. I guess the key challenge is still the autofocus system: to be competitive with Canon and Nikon. Does make sense somehow. The long flange distance will keep the system big but that does not seam to matter in the pro market.
From my perspective as an E-Mount user this is still good news because if they are able to figure out an autofocus system for mirrorless that is good enough for there top of the line cameras, the NEX will get it sooner or later.
Sony, who should buy your lenses if you produce expensive cameras only?
“4) The cameras are not cheap. So I have been told Anyway, if they are really good than this aspect can be not so important anymore.”
So, given that mirrorless cameras have less components and integrating the innards of an NEX-whatever into an A-mount body should not be problematic …
I *hope* that the cost is related with AF by moving the sensor. This would mean that the camera could take A and E mount lenses, and by adapter ANY lens and have AF with it.
Hope dies last 😉
Those are great points. However, the truth is in the pudding and it only if the performance as cameras is considerably better than the competition to warrant their price:offering ratio they will succeed. Thats a nice list but it is also a list with IF’s buried in it.
The fact that more lenses for A mount are coming is a sign of tangible confidence. Let’s hope their confidence is not undermined by hopeless dreams.
Sounds really interesting! But – Sony must realise that their brand is no where near CaNikon in this business. Sony must be cheaper than th CaNikon alternatives. Why otherwise jump from your CaNikonSYSTEM? Be sure competition will not stand still. Sony side is too naive.
Sony have to build a “better mousetrap” and sell it cheaper than a cat in China Town.
😉
+1
They already tried price dumping, in many branches (like many others). It’s the best way to go bankrupt ASAP, unless you have deep pockets and/or a large following already.
What Sony needs is profits and trying to undercut the current mass sellers, isn’t going to bring any.
Echo
I am really looking forward to the new cameras. They will, to me personally, give the best of all worlds.
Lets just hope that Sony don’t fall at the last hurdle and price themselves out of the market. Don’t forget, Sony, the amateur who can’t afford high prices also needs a great camera to start with and to build on.
I fear Sony will do what it always does – provide somewhat competitive cameras to Canon/Nikon. They will not stand above the de facto standards that are Canon/Nikon. IMO they need to create a situation where a buyer cannot ignore their offerings due to features/performance AND PRICE. People need a reason to NOT buy Canon or Nikon. If Sony isn’t cheaper they will lose buyers. If Sony doesn’t provide better features/performance they will lose buyers. If they want to build market share they need to provide more camera for less money IMO.
+1
In the mirrorless market neither Canon nor Nikon is the de facto standard.
No but they are in the SLR market which is where the A-mount (SLR/SLT/Mirrorless) is playing.
+2
Although I feel Sony (and Panasonic) are still superior in terms of video having co-developed the high quality, high compression AVCHD algorithm, I am now thinking to get a Canon EOS 6D for the photographic aspects. It is here and now, is full frame, and only $1599. I can wait and see how Sony plays things out. End of 2014 is still 1-1/2 years out yet. In the meantime, I want to do a lot of shooting. I have the Sony NEX6 which ‘could’ take care of the video shooting function.
It’s always funny to hear this “sony must be cheaper” blabla, and EVF not good blabla.
Does a CaNikon Boday capture pictures by itself? I thought it needs some capable equipment on top, like a guy composing a picture and a good piece of glass to get the light properly onto the sensor…
I agree that Sony’s pricing strategy is not always let’s call it reasonable, but there is in no way a reason why Sony should give away for more or less free like some of the guys wish for.
Changing a brand is no question of a cheap body when you are already owning a lot of premium lenses. It’s a matter of value.
Old premium lenses are about to become useless on a mirrorless A-mount for anything other than photographing your grandparents in a three-legged race.
not quite sure what to make out of that race, I guess it’s for grandpas only with a lot of young girls in the audience 😉
LOL
My father once told me to shut up before using the brain.
I have not been talking about “old” = vintage lenses. I was talking about Sony Alpha premium glass such as my 70200G,70400G2,2470Z,85Z,135Z.
So according your genius knowledge I have to throw them in the bin because the next Alpha FF will have no Mirror?
There’s as much truth and reliability in that statement as in saying “A-mount is dead”. It is not happening. Period.
Well Doofus you should have taken your fathers advice. The point is that there are a lot of premium A-mount lenses out there that will NOT give the AF performance on mirrorless that a Sony dSLR/SLT will.
But I guess you expect current users to abandon their legacy glass and purchase the current lens line-up eh? Not going to happen.
Instead of investing in all new Sony lenses, they will invest in a system that isn’t abandoning their legacy users, CaNikon.
Enjoy spending thousands on a mirrorless FF and lenses just to get similar AF performance to a Nikon D3200, LMFAO!
Absolutely agreed. If Sony doesnt understand that, then they will lose.
its interesting to know what Sony just released here too.
http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/xdcamcamcorders/pmw-300k1/overview#overview
Might be a signal for things to come. 🙂
A 3 sensor 1/2-inch class camera is not the future of Sony still imaging.
The elephant in the room is autofocus performance. The 99 should have been as good as anything with both on-sensor AF and no mirror blackout, but it really wasn’t. And now they’re making things hard on themselves by biffing the AF module entirely. Poor AF might be excusable in the consumer space, but it’s fatal in the $3000+ segment.
Maybe what Sony have in the works really is just THAT good, but they’ve certainly over promised and under delivered to us before. We shall see, I guess.
Yes. Totally agreed. Now not only tracking AF will be a huge challenge, but also low-light AF might be troublesome (something A-mount cameras were traditionally very good in). I’m really afraid this whole thing will go Pentax K-01 route with perhaps an excellent IQ, but in the end of a day – useless comparing to the real DSLRs.
We’ll see though.
+1
EXACTLY!! My NEX-5r was supposed to be an improvement with PDAF on sensor, but it’s not at all. Using the LA-EA2 doesn’t track at all, so that’s been disappointing as well. So the option on FF is the A99 with a small area of AF points untless you use the few Sony lenses supported, and even then there is less coverage and slower than Canikon offerings. I keep wanting to convince myself on getting an A99, but I just can’t get past the AF performance for moving objects (kids/motorsports). Now that they will be going mirrorless, they are now hoping to improve the on sensor PDAF so much that it is better than the A99? When they say much improved, they are comparing it to the NEX-5r/6 which shouldn’t be hard. The bigger the sensor, the more accurate e AF needs to be, and they haven’t yet figured it out on the APS-C. They want to debut it on a FF that won’t be updated for a good 3 years? Crazy. I’m sure they have AF design help from Olympus, but that’s on a sensor 1/4 size. Like overpaying for a Sony VAIO laptop, Sony seems to use the model that if they overcharge, it will be seen as premium whether it is or isn’t. I think that Sony and Fuji both want to go after being an attainable Leica except that Fuji is currently doing a better job.
I am now convinced that focus peaking has been offered as a work around because Sony saw that their AF can’t be trusted. Furthermore, I’ve also always said that their AF is also why we don’t have f/1.4 lenses. The NEX just can’t AF well with such minimal DOF. Good luck with that on FF. I’ll shut up now since nobody will read this anyways.
good point!
So many assumptions and pure nonsense, it’s hard respond with reason.
The only assumption I posed we’re separated at the end in regards to peaking and lack of fast glass. I will likely rent an A99 to test against the D800, but Sony is losing the battle with me so far. I’ve tried jumping into the deep water with LA-EA2, 2 NEX bodies, Zeiss 24, 10-18, Zeiss 24-70, and plenty more, and AF is consistently the biggest flaw of the system using the C3’s contrast, 5r’s CD w on sensor PDAF, and even the SLT adapter.
a part for having all the AF sensors in the center, is the A99 AF performance that unsatisfactory?
I do not own the a99 body, but I have checked it out next to the Nikon d800 and Mark III several times and it does not seems far behind at all on term of responsiveness and speed.
beside how does the “object tracking” works? That is a function that I have never tested. that should overcome the problem of having all the AF sensors in the center.
Just wondering.
This fact of having the AF points centered was THE deal-breaker for me.
Add to this that the competition was offering so much more for that price, and the over-priced few lenses. That did not help. Sincerely, this was a flop.
i own 2 a99 bodies both are very accurate in any light condition. no problem here.
you should compare it to 5dm3\d800 and see no major difference.
my a99 misses its target very rare. i am pro user.
I think I’d end up in a loony bin if I had to focus and recompose all the time in a professional capacity.
If it was my day job, I’d just buy a 5Dmk3.
Indeed, if I was making money from photography it certainly wouldn’t be a Sony in my hands.
as usual, Sony will takes forever to realise it
I translate “the cameras are not cheap” as typical Sony over charging for bodies.
Surely the A99 sales flop taught them one valuable lesson. You can’t charge a premium for a product with an EVF, you have to charge less that’s the only way to get people on board.
If Sony think they can blunder in to the camera market and charge a premium for products that should cost less to make, they’re in for an awful hiding next year.
Sony has to be cheaper, or else folks will just buy Canikon DSLR’s hand over fist. If this is true Sony are in serious trouble even before they hit the shelves.
They are taking their lesson from the RX1/RX100 — they can charge really high end users a premium price if they innovate something truly new.
But at the same time, they entirely abandon the more moderate market. I don’t think they have any interest in selling $600 Aps-c dSLRs. (Let those users buy a Nex). I don’t think they plan an affordable $1600 full frame ( they don’t think they can compete with Canon/Nikon) in that market.
So instead of going for huge market share, they want to maximize profit with unique products for which they can charge a high margin aimed at a narrow market. (Like the rx1).
RX1/RX100 have nothing whatsoever to do with the needs of DSLR users.
It doesn’t matter if Sony have new tech, people want an affordable FF DSLR and they are not going to pay the obscene £2500 launch price of the A99 to get it.
By the time the new bodies are out the Canon 6d and D600 will probably be selling for not much over £1000. That’s what people will be buying. Sony are living in a bubble thinking they can price themselves so high. They are not the market leaders, Canikon are.
^THIS^
Sony are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think potential dSLR users will pay a premium over a CaNikon.
There are people who can’t imagine spending more than $200 for any camera.
There is a market if people who would be thrilled to buy FF when the price drops below $1500.
And while the market is smaller, there is a market that will pay massive $$$$ for certain things. I can’t imagine paying $2500 for the Rx1, but the market does exist.
And there may be a market for an ultra expensive new A-mount. Perhaps it will be 4k, or contain other luxury features.
For those of us who use A-mount as a mid priced dSLR (myself included), we may be out of luck. Sony isnt trying to get us mid-priced consumers to buy an expensive A-mount. They MIGHT feel that they ave already lost our market segment to CaNikon, and they are withdrawing from the competition.
Instead of selling 100,000 mid priced dSLRs with low profit margins, perhaps they just want to sell 10,000 premium units with high profit margins. (And steer the other customers to NEX).
If Sony keep withdrawing from market segments they’re going to run out of market segments to compete in. Basing their business model on doing whatever Canikon doesn’t do is a terrible idea.
“Basing their business model on doing whatever Canikon doesn’t do is a terrible idea.”
I actually did LOL at that, classic comment and describes Sony quite well.
+1
Unless you’re a marker leader (which CaNikon are) you have to price your products lower for people to find your products interesting. Especially considering the fact that CaNikon have a great total SYSTEM for their cameras (great 3-rd party support, longer warranties on lenses, more accessories, etc). How many flash options are there for the A99? (adapters are useless if they make the flash fall off)
Sony, you can’t have a far-from-premium SYSTEM, charge premium for it, and expect people to buy it. That’s just not working.
Also you see that cameras like D600 and 6D sell like butter… means that people DO find cheap FF cameras as great alternatives. SO MAKE ONE! it will generate lens sales also probably..
Um, so people will may for “innovation” and “something new” … like the NEX? The only reason Sony concede ANY market ground in the high-end mirrorless market was because the NEX-7 was delayed for almost a year. I have seen so many Pros/advanced amateurs walking around with a big Canonikon AND an NEX-7. I see more of then than A99 or even A77 shooters.
So, yes, I believe you are right but I believe the platform for innovation is already here. It is the NEX line (sorry Alpha users, feel free to flame me to hell). Sony’s video division has realized it is the perfect bridge to get DSLR video users with existing glass to transition. Sony’s still camera division is behind the curve.
You can get what you want or you can do things the way you want. You rarely get both. Sony cannot beat Canonikon at their own game. Play their game or beat their game Sony. Pick one or fail at both. I am very skeptical of this new camera/direction.
Did they actually learn anything from the A99, or are they just going to be one of those animals that keep touching electric fences repeatedly?
The same thing has made their TV division a money sink for a decade – ‘we’re Sony, so it’s worth more’, with no effort to offer more value for money than their competitors.
Completely agree. It isn’t the ’80s anymore. The Sony name doesn’t have the clout it used to. Time to rebuild the name with innovative and competitively priced offerings.
They try to run the A-mount like it says Canon or Nikon on the outside.
+1
+1 totally
Between the rumors we have seen, and the marketing (Nex commercials that steer people away from “difficult” dSLRs), it appears Sony is not focusing on the broad consumer market with dSLRs. They very well may be abandoning that direct market to the Canon Rebel, Nikon d3200, etc. in their own product line, they offer the NEX as an alternative to the casual shooters.
For dSLRs, it appears they are going down the RX1/100 route — a product aimed at high end users willing to spend more.
I had been curious about the overlap between mirrorless NEX, and mirrorless A-mount. Guess the answer is that the A-mount will be a professional/luxury/enthusiast product, while the NEX is for the broader market.
In aiming the A-mount at a high end market, I wonder how much they will preserve the functionality of older (especially Minolta) lenses. We know that the hybrid sensors don’t always work well with all lenses.
Andrea, any word on whether older/Minolta lenses will keep their functionality on the new A-mounts?
Me too, which is why I believe that my A77 is that last Sony dSLR sized body I will buy. If they think that I am going to pay a massive premium over CaNikon just for a Sony badge, they are very much mistaken, it’s bad enough paying a little more now.
Guess why Sony is expecting an increase in lens sales. Probably *not* because cheap old Minolta lenses will perform well with the new cameras. My bet is that the new AF will only work well with lenses that are now AF-D capable on the A99.
I would imagine that Sony had a net loss of FF buyers when they abandoned the OVF.
They’ll have had another net loss of buyers when the A99 was released, largely due to underwhelming performance and high price.
Next year they’ll have another net loss of FF buyers when the FF proves to be the usual high on promise but crap on delivery.
The size of the FF Sony new lens market must be dwindling pretty quickly I reckon with the majority of those FF users left sticking to legacy lenses.
If non-AFD lenses focus like snails then to a lot of us it might as well be slow with everything for all the good it’ll do. And not everything in Sony’s lineup (eg. 20mm) even has a distance encoder.
So they’ll pick the mount that isn’t compatible with competing systems–or even their existing lineup (including some of their premium lenses)–and they expect this to work out for them?! Sony’s complete Alpha lens line up is decent but small compared to Canikon. The compatible AF-D lineup is even smaller. No camera body in the world is going to win pros over like that. Its like they WANT to go back to the growing pains/feet tripping of the early NEX (just without 3rd party compatibility to hold them over)
I believe it’s suicide to do that, which is why I doubt it. IF they however do it, I’d use my A77 while it lasts, maybe pick up another one used after that, then say goodbye to Sony afterwards. I don’t want to get my a-hole raped by them…
so can we interpret the situation like this?
sony does not improve their off sensor PDAF module because they know they’re gonna abandon it anyway. 5hat’s why a99 is using a77’s pdaf module.
however, as i remember, there was.a rumour saying there would still be ff slt…
admin, is the ff slt also been abandoned? no more mirror for Alpha?
That’s been the rumor for the last few months…. No more slt, no more mirrors.
Thanks Admin for the Great News! I’ll start saving now for the New Generation FF.
Well if you want a hideously expensive full frame with hideously poor AF performance, good luck with it. 😀
Alphaguy, that is a moronic statement to say the least.
All FF body from Sony have never been priced hideously.
They are always been priced fairly. Even the a99.
Well that’s your opinion but it’s not one shared by the majority of people who comment on the A99 price point vs. the competition.
Because guys like you compare the Price of the A99 with the Price of 6D or D600 which is wrong.
And regarding your really useless AF moaning:
Go out into the City with a Zeiss SSM or G lens attached to an A99 Body and learn how convenient fast, silent and especially accurate AF from Sony can be.
Dirk, you really need to use a CaNikon to understand what fast and ACCURATE AF is like. The A99 at THAT price certainly isn’t it.
Why should it bother you what I say? Or do you always attempt to censor those that do not share your view?
Since I have been with “Sony” since it had a Minolta badge, I think I am as entitled as much as anybody else to comment on a system that I have invested cash money into.
+1
I think Sony will come out 2 FF early next year – one full-featured FF & one budget FF; and end of next year a Pro FF, so there’s something for everyone. Just my 2 cents’ worth.
God bless Sony. I just think Sony has trapped herself in several dilemma. Such as:
1) Should E-mount being small? Not a must! Bigger would hurt but the westerner can handheld it easier.
2) Should E-mount has FF? Yes, it can kill Leica! But not quite because it will hurt A-mount’s sale.
3) Should E-mount has IBIS? It is a must(IMO). But not quite because it will hurt A-mount’s sale because it makes it no more difference between two system.
4) Should E-mount has more prime lenses? It is welcome, but it also draws some sales of A-mount user away because Zeiss is expensive and G lenses have not been updated almost a decade.
I don’t know what Sony is thinking about. What she can’t break through because she has too many things to keep balance or avoid. I have said thousand time, if she wants to keep the A-mount users, make an professional adapter for them which can focus as fast as the A99V. Modularization is the most felixible solution to let all the system survive. Too much variation can’t keep the heart of the users because they are lack of confidence on the future for a “semi-new” system. Doesn’t Sony learnt from Pentax mirrorless? OMG!
Having your sales cannibalised isn’t really an issue as long as you’re the one cannibalising them. Sony’s problem isn’t A mount vs E mount, it’s Canon and Nikon.
More accurate, I think the problem is traditional mind. For most of the user, DSLR is always more professional and reliable comparing with other system. That’s a main reason that mirrorless (E-mount and m43 system) performs differently between asia and the western market. Canon and Nikon is the common enemies but please also bear in mind that EOS-M and Nikon 1 are the respond to the mirrorless invasion. Of course, they are both no doing well either. But on the other hand, is DSLR still leading the market? Not so. The golden era has gone and growth is getting slow. The market has been dramatically changed by iPhone and smart phone. May be I am little bit off topic. However, if you can’t concentrate, what you can expect is making average product from the limited resource. That’s why Sony can’t let the people excited about her.
I think Sony should learn from Fuji. Fujifilm is well planned from the date of X-Pro 1 released. She created 10 lenses available within a year and no similar lenses are produced in the product line. It gives confidence to the users that they have ample of choice and the future of the system is expectable. Of course, Fuji produces better image quality and know how to hook up the feeling from the experienced film users such as slide mode, BW, rangefinder alike shooting style. She makes a great success from X100 and X-Pro 1, too. So please don’t blame others. Sony is failed by herself. Not just the camera department, some products even cross competite with her internal product especially handycam, a dying market that she don’t want to let go. If handycam is dead, E-mount system might be able to implant more video feature to fight against Canon EOS. What a shame!
“But on the other hand, is DSLR still leading the market? Not so.” – Huh? Last time I checked week ago the DSLRs were leading market quite nicely.
+1 @MC : You are not reading the last news: DSLRs- slight increase in sales, Mirrorless: DROP!
That could be a good strategy:
– E-mount for those expecting the best possible quality in a compact package (body+lense)
– A-mount for uncompromised quality
Both with a clearaly inovative approach of photography : mirrorless, high quality EVF, special features, hybrid AF…
more sales for E-mount, more margin for A-mount
What is 30+MP good for when nobody has lenses for that?
Or do they need the resolution just to justify the high price?
Go to hell, SONY. My 5N plus a metabones speed booster adapter plus good stabilized EOS lenses like the 35/2 IS and the already ordered 100/2.8L will make me forget about your trial error approach of the last years.
Not sure what lenses you’re using, but I’m not optical resolution limited with most of my A mount lenses at 24MP.
+1. Just for your information, Sony F series (E-mount) are bundled with Speed Booster to sell in the professional video market. Sony has not enough lenses to choose and no IS for the E-mount system that she should rely on Canon EF! That’s weird! I am also the speed booster user.
Not all of them as you suggest. Just one (or two?) model in a single specific promotion that isn’t even available worldwide.
Hmmm, intersting… interesting…
Expensive = fail!
No one will buy it no matter how good it is.
The rumor says: “The cameras are not cheap.”, which is not the same as expensive!
No real high end advanced camera is cheap, but could be affordable in price in its camera segment…
Yeah like the A99….oh wait…
Well, if it had actually offered a meaningfully better image quality or user experience than the competition…
Being a hobbyist I might be able to pick up a cheap one when current full frame hangers on finally figure out that Sony aren’t a serious dSLR company. Result for me!
I doubt the A99 will ever be cheaper than the D600 and 6D. Sales flop or no, you just can’t beat economics of scale.
Used market might be quite buoyant from 2014 though. 😉
You can’t have much of a used market if almost no one buys one.
It’ll end up like the Minolta XK; far more expensive than a Canon F-1, Nikon F or Topcon RE simply because of rarity.
I’d pay a lot extra just to get the Topcon front mount shutter release. Painless vertical shooting.
The a99 bundle with the grip & flash presented a truly excellent value. The a99 is a great camera. If it had an autofocus system nearing the speed & accuracy of the 5d3, they could have justified a higher price closer to the 5d3. Built-in wifi would have been nice but that’s only in one dslr at the moment so it is still uncommon though I expect it will be in most of sony’s next generation.
It sounds like some of you would like to own an a99…but only if you could purchase it for the price of an a77. The price at release was competitive with other cameras on the market and the current bundle price makes it a bargain. Just because something costs more than you would like to pay for it doesn’t automatically make it a poor value.
Which would be true if the A99 was a storming success, performed as well as the competition and was not universally criticised on price.
“AF, EVF and other key aspects have been considerably improved” – AF has been be improved compared to what? Other mirrorless cameras? Existing A-mount cameras?
“The cameras are not cheap” – What does this mean? Not cheap in that they are advanced cameras, ie. A77 level and up? Or not cheap compared to the competition due to the level of innovation, such as fast on-sensor PDAF?
“As I told you before Sony expects a great increase in A-mount lens sales for 2014 due of the impact of the new A-mount cameras” – Is this because the cameras will be truly innovative, causing Canikon users to defect to Sony in droves, or is it because some, most or all of the existing A-mount lenses will not function with the new PDAF system?
I’d prefer a full-frame E-Mount camera, because you could adapt almost any lens to it. A-Mount is one of the least adaptable mounts.
My Opinion: Mirrorless A-mount makes no sense. You could also build “pro-sized” E-Mount cameras with an A-mount Adapter. You would have zero disadvantages and the advantage of the usage of E-mount lenses. Further, Sony would not have to develop two lines of lenses in parallel.
The Pentax K01 “success” demonstrated this nicely.
How many full-frame e-mount lenses currently exist?
I do believe that these pure mirrorless systems are the future of photography. I just hope that Sony aren’t jumping the gun here. If it doesn’t perform as well as the competition, it could be as big a flop as their SLT cameras. Although having said that, Sony are probably the only camera company that can experiment with new systems like this and get away with it. Any other company would have surely gone bankrupt by now.
This new system will allow more compact lenses with protruding rear lens elements to be made.
+1
Well, if the AF is worse than the A99 and the price is the same or higher, then it’ll be an even bigger flop again. Sony really need to deliver the goods rather than counting on A900s breaking down to drive sales. People already invested in Canon and Nikon aren’t about to come over unless Sony offer something especially compelling.
Large DSLR form factor. Expensive. 30+MP. Doesn’t sound like something I’d be interested in.
I guess they feel they can go ‘toe-to-toe’ with Nikon and Canon in this arena…
In any case, I wonder if this means neglect of the e-mount system.
Will those of us looking for a small, pro-quality range-finder sized camera need to look to Fuji now?
“They will be all mirrorless but maintain the current DSLR form factor.” – what’s the point????? whole point of going mirrorless is to provide smaller body. They might as well just keep mirror or whatever they use there.
I completely agree, A-mount has a flange distance of 45 mm or so, what are they going to do with all that space once they take out the mirror? The whole point of mirrorless is short flange distance.
maybe a tiny muppet theater 🙂
Forget the mirror, Sony is making it irrelevant. Ergonomics, IQ, AF, and features will be the determining factors for quality and value. For the end-user it will not make a difference if there is a mirror, a translucent mirror or no mirror. Camera size and mirror will no longer have any relationship to one another.
and that’s the whole point. you don’t need dslr shape for mirrorless body to have a good handling. rather opposite, the VF above LCD is probably the worst place for VF, VF should be like on RF cameras, on one side so your nose doesn’t interact with either buttons or LCD. for good handling you just need a good grip and button layout which works – that’s all. calling DSLR shape as the alpha and omega of ergonomic design is complete BS
How can a camera that has fewer moving parts, no mirror and no pentaprism viewfinder be more expensive to manufacture than one of their current SLT models or previous dSLR models? Sony should be driving price down, not up.
Instead they are being greedy and attempting to increase profit margin. The problem is that there is ZERO profit margin if your product is sat on the shelf gathering dust.
They have failed to take on CaNikon with dSLR, they have failed with SLT, they are about to fail with mirrorless.
They are charging for their design and features not a flipping piece of glass. Companies tend to want to drive down costs to drive up margins…that is the whole point of the venture. More power to Sony if they succeed and more money for R&D for the future.
If the features and functionality are as good or better than competing products in a given price class…why would you care if there is a small flip-up mirror?
You missed the point that you get zero profit margin on an unsold product. People looking for a dSLR sized body will not be looking at an over-priced premium mirrorless with poor AF performance.
What is the unique selling point of a mirrorless A-mount dSLR sized body that makes it a killer competitor to a SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper equivalent CaNikon? Why would removing the mirror make any difference in sales compared to the A99 with a fixed mirror?
Sony are concentrating too much on the technology when they should be advancing the SYSTEM.
New EVF, boatloads more processing power and read out speed required for a full on sensor PDAF system and faster refresh rates with more MP to boot.
And that’s just based on what to expect after reading the rumor, then there’s what we don’t or can’t know at all.
Yet the competition will come along and produce one that is faster and cheaper.
Like the Canon M or a small sensor Nikon? 😀
mirrorless A-mount based camera in DSLR shape is fail and will fail.
sony has great opportunity to release small EVF based mirrorless cameras with FF sensor and with possibility to mount any lens on it – the true winner.
I really think the same.
They have the NEX-6 and the awesome Sonnar 35mm they designed for the RX1. It would be very easy to produce a FF NEX with the 24MP sensor and to produce a 35mm and a 50mm compact primes (see the Zeiss Contax-G and ZM line of lenses. The optics are already there).
yep
I think it will take a revolutionary product to unseat the Canikon king.
yeah like a organic sensor and lens connected to your brain via bluetooth or something and takes the picture exactly how you vision it.
That would do it!
If history is to go by. Sony took 4 yrs for a99 to be where it is today from a33 slt. How long will 1st gen on sensor PDaf take to stabilize?
Test post – Third time lucky?
If it comes down to DSLRs rather than E-mount, then I’d rather buy a Canikon so I can share lenses with my mates. D800 is a decent camera for the money.
In the meantime, Sony markets A99 as if they did not want to sell it at all. There seem to be no marketing effort and the price is way too high compared with competition.
It should be easy to make the price competitive, as this camera should be cheaper to manufacture than the competitors FF DSLRs (no moving mirror and no pentaprism in A99). Keeping the price so high means that few A99s are sold and this means that few A mount lenses are sold with them. Normally, the best margin is in lenses.
Selling A99 better would create a nice installed base ready to upgrade to the new cameras. These users would already have significant investment in FF A mount lenses.
There seems to be no logic in Sony actions, unless one assumes that they do not care about the future of A mount lenses at all.
Maybe, just maybe, this new “A-mount FF” is really an FZ mount (like what they showed at NAB) with a bundled/attractive/purpose-built A-mount adapter. THAT would make sense (personally wouldn’t buy it, I find the DSL shape a throw-back without the need for a mirror box) and would have a real market–especially if Sony actually puts real video tech in there to compete with the CX00 series from Canon. FZ can mount everything E-mount can plus active PL lenses.
what we know “now”: (erm… ok… SR5… only a RUMOUR)
1. mirrorless (OSPDAF)
2. dslr form factor
3. not cheap
not a single specification…
then we have so many “conclusions” here…
don’t you think we have too many fortune tellers, or maybe “keyboard CEO’s” here?
i’m wondering how some people do all these CONCLUSIONS when we practically know Nothing about the maybe coming camera from Sony…
Some of us A-mount users have been around long enough to know that whatever “it” is, it’s going to be disappointing. 😉
would you buy one if it’s not like what you assumed and it’s not disappointing? or would you struggle to find some points to make it a disappointment? sorry to ask so, because i’ve seen so many people behave such way around…
History of Sony model releases tells us to expect disappointment. Sony could kill CaNikon if they got just a few basic things right.
It is incredibly frustrating that they keep failing on these same basic issues over and over, issues that any camera forum would highlight and they could learn from. They don’t appear to learn as they appear to “know better” than their customers.
A bit harsh, but carries enough reason to be funny too. 😀
You don’t appear to understand the concept of buying into a system.
Most people are here because they are invested into A-mount, but we are aware of Sony’s track record (A900) and now SLT, so there is some cautious pessimism. Sony should have taken advantage of this year with the great products they do have, but nothing gets marketed or explained. They just release new bodies that may be hit or miss.
Well… i had enough with all the e-mount comments on every single thread created.
With no real valuable comments going on at all!
Sony should just make an adapter for a-mount to use e-mount lens on it.
Then all the reasons you guys thought of would be gone.
There’s no “REAL” benefit to split from the beginning…
You guys are just trapped in your own world and letting Sony get to you.
The reason why i see sony happily convinced a-mount sales will go up is due to:
1. 2014 release of Mirrorless FF & ASPC A-mount
2. Late 2014 release Mirrorless FF & ASPC E-mount
3. 2015 release of Mirrorless FF & ASPC Hybrid AE Mount
For point 1, the basis here is that the camera will be very good.
Which i believe with oly’s AF speed, 5-axis IBIS, 30+ MP FF sensor and 2x better EVF could convert alot of ppl to this new camera and start purchasing new lens for REAL profit.
For point 2, this is where sony gets all u NEX believers to convert but would still cause them lose money LOL if they price it cheap.
I do not really see the current Sony making much of of e-mount lens with so few buying them and buying canikon lens to use on NEX and with the body going for cheap….
So for Sony this would be their last stand to see if NEX would even get off the ground, if it fails guess they would stick back to RX series for small FF size.
For point 3, is where they unified the mount.
This is where i believe their main target and source to recoup their loses from both camp.
regarding point 1 – how is Sony going to convert CaNikon shooters??? by providing what exactly that’s different AND better than CaNikon’s offering?
I am already moving on to Canikon because I bought the RX1 and since it is fixed lens I don’t need to invest into A or E mounts. Once Canikon comes out a new Dslr at a cheaper price I will be buying it over a Sony because I know it will be cheaper at Costco. Look at the canon 6d package at Costco already which is cheaper than an a99 (I know it’s comparing apples to oranges) and its a level entry FF. price thrumps everything for me.
I am already moving on to Canikon because I bought the RX1 and since it is fixed lens I don’t need to invest into A or E mounts. Once Canikon comes out a new Dslr at a cheaper price I will be buying it over a Sony because I know it will be cheaper at Costco. Look at the canon 6d package at Costco already which is cheaper than an a99 (I know it’s comparing apples to oranges) and its a level entry FF. price thrumps everything for me.
start Saving from now.
Maybe if Nex users actually bought some Sony lenses and not $30 ebay specials….
It blows me away that they haven’t reduced the a99 body price considering it’s not selling and it’s going to be replaced ASAP.
Can’t wait to see the a78, though – good luck Sony.
Big mistake, keeping traditional SLR form factor.
True innovation would provide monstrous viewfinder with eye and nose relief that no OVF DSLR can. Leverage the EVF advantage with Medium Format size viewfinder… Make it removable with tethered view capability.
That sensor needs to tilt and move making all lenses tilt with macro.
Sensor and body should rotate on a single grip, making the need for add on vertical grip obsolete.
Sensor should be interchangeable with user removable AA, and option for user installed IR.
Flash sync should be entirely sensor controlled, available at any shutter speed, making any flash a true HSS capable unit.
RED and Black Magic didn’t revolutionize the video industry by making their cameras fit the “traditional” form factor. The new Sony products should be obviously different in many ways, especially the way they look on exterior. Nothing says “revolutionary” better or faster than a physical change. The new Sony’s should look like Lamborghini’s sitting next to CaNikon Fords and Chevy’s.
are you reading my mind? 🙂 I’ve been dreaming of truly modular camera design for years, and this is what it could be:
– main part is ‘mount’ with exposure and shutter speed dials and hot shoe
– digital back with LCD on it and programmable buttons along side it so it can fulfil needs of left/right handed photographers
– grip on either of 3 sides and should have on/off switch with shutter release button
– EVF/OVF on either of two sides (via connector not a hot shoe)
– aperture on the lens
I’ve heard Sony tout “revolutionary” so many times before. It usually turns out to be make.believe. They hardly have the balls to break completely from the pack, and blaze their own new trail. Lot’s of fear that consumers won’t get it. Little do they know that consumers are ready, more than ever, for something completely different… not just new, but different. And those differences must encapsulate what we all know (at least you and I) is capable for our photographic instruments to achieve.
But sadly, let’s look at the facts. Currently, in 2013 with all the fancy Sony’s, we’re stuck with no smart remote radio slave, and only recently announced full remote for video control. Still tethering only available on very few cameras, after asking for years.
I fear these new Sony’s may be simply more tech masturbation. Without bringing anything substantial to revolutionize an industry that is ready and pleading for it. I wish Sony would announce at least one world class photographer they are working with on this. Or at least say they’re letting the Minolta design team take the lead. The Sony designers are tech geeks… with no real world photo experience in the field of working professionals. What’s that going to produce?
what’s that going to produce? – another camera which feels like a calculator. I mean honestly, who in the world would release a camera like RX1 with aperture ring on the lens, no viewfinder and instead of shutter speed dial they put there mode dial? how the hell is one meant to compose via LCD AND control aperture on the lens? face palm – only sony
you’re right, these cameras are designed by geeks with very little or no field experience and that’s the reason I decided to get Fuji
RX1 should have had EVF/OVF bundled with camera or in the body itself and should have in addition to aperture ring have also shutter speed dial – that’s photographer’s camera, not that P&S styled product they released
The whole vertical grip business is not necessary if the sensor is square. Note that in Digital cameras a square sensor does not mean squere photos. You select whatever orientation and ratio of a rectangular image. Optics is not a problem as field of view of lenses is circular. The contacts of A-mount can be a problem, as they might obstruct part of the rectangular image.
I’m an enthusiast that jumped ship Canon to buy the A55 and then upgraded it to an A65. IBIS, solid video performance (making the SLTs true hybrid units), video AF and comparative value were the main appeals that made me switched.
I got priced out of the full frame upgrade (A99), as I was hoping Sony was going to put out a competition to the low-end FF canikon offerings, following suit with Nikon’s D800/D600 duo. Recreating my A65 + 16-50mm combination on the FF side would have cost me over $4-5k, which is completely out of my budget.
I’m disappointed to hear that Sony will be focusing only on the high-end of their market for their next rev. The few A5X updates that came out over the last year or so were not upgrades for A65/A77 users and if the price of the A7X replacement will be significantly higher than the A77 like this rumor seems to hint, I feel Sony is leaving a huge gap in their line between the A58 and the A7X for the enthusiasts and mid/high-end consumers.
I’ve also been considering the NEX line, but the lack of IBIS, different handling (I have big hands), AF performance compared to the SLT line, lack of GPS and different menu system kept me away for now.
Oh well, I’ll enjoy my A65 for another year. Hopefully, Sony will announce something above the A58 at an reasonable price later in 2014.
I do not think you need spend the 4-5k on the Caon side for a good FF setup to replace your A65. You could get Canon 6D with EF 24-105/F4 L IS USM for about $2,200 to $2,300 (US prices). I believe that this kit is significantly better than A65 + 16-50/F2.8, as the sensor is bigger and much more sensitive. There is a consensus that even JPEGs at ISO 6400 straight out of the camera are just fine. This will more than compensate for loss of one aperture step in the lens. You get much better range out of the lens too. You also get Wi-Fi and GPS, but do not get flash. Nice OVF too, if you prefer OVF to EVF.
I am an A99 owner, bought it used from B&H for $2300 because I, too thought it was overpriced. However, now that I have it, I can say that there is absolutely no way I will switch brands as long as Sony has the only full frame EVF. I dont see AF ever improving to the point where you can shoot an 85mm f1.4 wide open and get the precision you would get from manual focusing, and there is not a better way to maqnually focus than with focus peaking/magnification that an EVF affords. Not to mention the what you see is what you get results. Can it be improved? Sure! For sports photography I would love an improved autofocus and I hope this next generation comes as advertised. But the point is that the A99 is not as much of a flop as made out to be just because of the high price.
If focus peaking is better than an A900 with an M screen and a magnifier, then it is only by a small margin.
The big question for me is how good the predictive AF is going to be with the in-sensor PDAF. I thought they had something good going on with the ‘triangulating’ predictive AF system in the A99 (off sensor and in-sensor PDAF working together). IMO this is one area they really need to improve on. Also, I’m also hoping the AF sensor coverage would be wide enough to compete with Canikon cameras, especially full-frame.
2014? Well if we have something good to wait for I guess it is worth waiting for.
But would love a RX10 this year Sony 😉
If so, then why did the A58 need to exist ?
It still seems that Sony is favoring E-mount over A-mount by switching gears.
I don’t think Sony will be able to execute any better than what they have recently, which is not good.
Just looks like the same old Sony to me. Price themselves out of the market and more vapour ware talk ie no actual product to show.
Look it’s pretty simple really, it will be the same for 2014 as it was for 2012/2013. Try to charge more than Canon and Nikon, fail..sell a lot less bodies then dream up some wonder new technology that’s “supposed to toppled to top 2 makers”
We’ll just have the same overpriced A77 update for £1200 odd, £2500 + for a new A99 with no mirror and 36mp. Meanwhile a D7100 will be selling for peanuts, and the D600/6d will be £999 body only, and the D800 update will probably outdo the new Sony anyway and cost less. This is a winning strategy is it? lol
somebody really needs to tell me what the advantages of a full dslr-sized mirrorless body are.
(A-mount)
you can crack nuts and you can go around and shout “look at me, I’m a pro, I have a back-breaking camera with massive lenses – but not on me of course, it’s too heavy to carry anywhere apart from paid jobs”
Why a DSLR sized mirrorless with A-mopunt?
Well:
To use all your A-mount lenses on
To use with large telezoom lenses (like the 70-400mm G lens)
To have IBIS
To have a camera with some grip (when using large lenses)
Why having a Nex sized mirrorless?
To have a take it anywhere camera with Hogh IQ
To have a small and light soluton when you don’t need large telezoom lenses
when you don’t want to be to obvious
So there is a reason for both cameras. I own a A700 and a nex5. Both some older cameras but still going strong.
Nothing prevents you from having a DSLR-sized E-mount camera (+ adapter)
all the things you said hold also true for a DSLR-sized E-mount camera.
Additionally, you can use E-mount lenses (in crop mode), and above all, legacy lenses of all types.
Besides, this would release part of the pressure from all the people asking for more lenses. They could just market 3-4 FF E-mount bodies and “nobody” would complain about there not being lenses.
I would certainly prefer a small E-mount FF cam, I would still consider a larger E-mount FF cam, I will never buy a large A-mount camera.
It will be a BIG mistake if there will be no FF E-mount cameras…in that case I guess Sony don’t want all the customers shooting legacy and Leica glass.
They could easily make a sister camera to the upcoming FF A-mount mirrorless and give it an E-mount.
Why should Sony want everybody shoot legacy and leica glass? What will be the proffit for them?
Will Sony come with a FF Nex? I think so.
Will they come with their own E-mount FF lenses? Ithink so!
Will legacy and Leica glass be working on these cameras? Yes I think so…
But they will not sell as good as the APS Nex cameras, as the FF version will not be cheap and I think it will only be a camera to show the world they can offer it, and in the long run it will be used more when the price comes down.
For me personaly I think that the APS sensor is large enough, no need for5 a FF sensor for me…
On one hand you are saying why Sony should make cameras to satisfy the legacy crowd when there are no money in it, and then you still think they will make the FF NEX and reason that by saying they will make native FF lenses. Am I ruling that fact out anywhere?
I think it is natural that they make some native FF lenses for a FF NEX at once or down the road, if they chose to make a FF NEX. I don’t think that manual focus lenses are a big threat to Sony’s A-mount lenses though. For example they made a FF E-mount camcorder to satisfy the large video community that use legacy lenses for video. It not like people want to use their AF Canon or Nikon lenses
They have a golden chance to have people looking for high-end options to get onboard the FF NEX train FF NEX and then capitalize further by making native options. To start with though, they could satify many AF-high-IQ cravers just by making a good A-to-E adapter available if they chose to make the FF NEX and then make some native FF lenses down the road.
What would it mean when you say that the Mirrorless A-Mount would retain the same form factor as that of the currently available A-Mount SLT cameras from Sony. Do you mean the size? If yes, than what is the whole point of producing a compact mirrorless. Isn’t that defeated?
I’d be glad to hear some news on the FF-Nex. Thanks for the post and the news about the A-Mount. Looks like Sony is trying to capture the CaNikons with their A-Mount which I seriously doubt. If Sony wants a market share of the CaNikons, produce more compact mirrorless systems with FF and with a moderate price tag!
Good question.
I think the whole point is to get rid of the OVF and the light stealing translucent mirror/beamsplitter.
However, that could simply have been solved by making an SLT with a flip-up mirror feature.
I only see this being a success if these mirroless A-mount cameras have KICK ASS AF, are super responsive and they at the same time were the ultimate FF video DSLR-type machines – or else they will fail miserably similarly to Pentax pointless K-mount mirrorless camera.
Of course these cameras will have better resolution… BUT if the Minolta Maxxum Lenses don’t work/work well or/and the AF is garbage I will not be buying one.
Sony’s full frame lens lineup is really slacking and over priced to justify staying with the system without the use of the Minolta lenses as well.
Some lenses are overpriced, not all of them.
Carl Zeiss lenses are expensive because they are the best in it’s class, thus, not overpriced.
Sigma lenses are 1/3 – 1/4 of the price, and their quality is improving
Why we are so worried???
Sony is doing a fine job IMHO – If you look at RX1, many pro CaNikon users like the camera and using it. I don’t see why can’t Sony deliver again? They invest a lot in R & D and always a trend-setter, not follower.
I see future is great for Sony. 🙂
So after all the talk does this mean we will NOT be getting an FF NEX-style body? What a let down. If I want a nice dSLR I can get Nikon or Canon with a full line up of lenses and manual Zeiss glass to boot 😛
FF NEX along with a universal body were in the competition for the future of Sony high end still cameras. It appears the universal body will not be coming to still, but may still make it to video. FF NEX is in the video line-up but I am not sure how well it is doing. How well the new Alpha line will do depends on the price and the capability. We currently know nothing about those things, except they are not starting with the low end models. I think the A58 was a clear sign that Sony is reducing the line-up to make things more profitable and leaving the small camera market to NEX. I could certainly see the future of Sony still to be a A58 follow-on, the A77 follow-on, the A99 follow-on and a higher level FF.
FF NEX along with a universal body were in the competition for the future of Sony high end still cameras. It appears the universal body will not be coming to still, but may still make it to video. FF NEX is in the video line-up but I am not sure how well it is doing. How well the new Alpha line will do depends on the price and the capability. We currently know nothing about those things, except they are not starting with the low end models. I think the A58 was a clear sign that Sony is reducing the line-up to make things more profitable and leaving the small camera market to NEX. I could certainly see the future of Sony still to be a A58 follow-on, the A77 follow-on, the A99 follow-on and a higher level FF.
This might all be true but more affordable full frame cameras have always been desirable. I shot a Nikon FMII for many years and loved it (until the defective shutter gave out just when Nikon ran out of recall replacement shutters – if only I had known, I would have sent it for replacement years earlier).
Anyhow, that was an affordable, good quality, basic SLR full frame camera.
Sony is right, they need pro too but, they also need low end pro and student level FF bodies for the A mount. Right now, students are going to keep using Nikon and Canon (starting not in full frame but wed to one of those brands). But if Sony comes out with a classic, well made FF body and markets it to students, they will capture those students moving forward.
Don’t forget, students are not just photo majors but design, architecture, science, sociology, journalism, et al. Even English departments at colleges teach photography as part of self publishing courses! All these very non photo or non art majors are just FINE with Sony!
Finally, I think Sony will eventually understand that, in their A mount line up, they still need at least a couple optical viewfinder mirror based DSLR cameras. Photographers like to look at things for real when composing. Plus, in dark settings, way, way better than crazy bright LED screen coming on or even the very bright electronic view finder.
In 2-3 years, we’ll see a Sony A with optical viewfinder.
I have not gotten any of the NEX or electronic viewfinder models because I like the optical. So I keep using the A700 and, it is fine. A full frame, low cost A700 like DSLR is what Sony needs.
they already made that camera, I own one, I love it and I use it every day. but it didn’t make any money for Sony, it didn’t sell. I strongly advice you to get your hands on an a850 as soon as you can, I think it is your last chance of getting a great ovf camera for your Minolta glass. the good news is it’s really cheep!
Guys,… Make believe, most of your comments like this is canikonrumors site.
Its still q1 of 2014 sony have all resource to make us surprise in the end. Its a very long time for giant sony corp to do something.
A99 cannot compare with a crap 6d
sony have all resource to compete with canikon
Zeiss glass are in the different league, Stop making sensor for nikon, canon are dying in sensor tech, put all effort on this new mirrorless tech, THEY NEED TO BE DAMN SERIOUS THIS TIME!!!
Wake up mate, no Sony camera ever made can hold a candle to the 6D, even though the 6D is a “low-range” model. I tried both, and then some, and I shoot 20K pics a year.
Get real.
In the past 7 years Zeiss produced precious all of 6 lenses for A-mount that you can buy today (the seventh – 50/F1.4 is still not in the stores). Of these six lenses, three need to be redone for today’s video capable cameras, as they employ an ancient screw drive AF which buzes as hell and makes them unusable for anyone trying to do video with sound. This leaves 3 modern lenses: (16-35, 24-70 and 24). Not much to brag about, isn’t it?
And Zeiss is not exactly rushing in with new products for A-mount as of late. There has been exactly zero new Zeiss lenses for A-mount since 24mm prime released in 2010. (The 50mm is sitll not with us today).
So another A99 is coming, this time without mirror? I hope they put it a sensible viewfinder this time.
I can spend a lot on lenses. I won’t spend a lot on bodies.
I will just say we are in the worst recession in living memory, remember this Sony do not price your products out of the market!!!
30+ mp is not enough. Many high resolution new lenses are coming out and everyone seems to be excited about them.
There are no cameras with high enough resolution to match the new lenses, therefore no reason to buy these new lenses.
36 mp is not much more resolution than 24.
Sony keeps promisimg major improvements for the new cameras and only gives us minor improvements.
It’s 50% more…that’s not a lot more? Imagine if you lost 50% of your body mass, or if you paid 50% more for your home…50% is a lot.
30mp is less than more resolution than 24mp.
Furthermore if you go from c to ff you need 56mp to match the the resolution.
30 mp in a ff is a actually a decrease in resolution from the a77
That was less than 8% increase in resolution from 24 to 30mp.
what ever sony is going to built be it ff and aps-c mirrorless in the dslr form , just built it slim more on the compact size, like my Samsung nx-11 with flash and built in evf , rotating lcd screen as in nex. modular BUILT IN evf view finder that we can change every two years with newer brighter version with software update.( ovf view finder for the profesionals ). 5 axis stabilizer is a must. very fast af.
if slim and compact , sony I am amateur have 5K to spend with you.
Thank you for this SR5 rumor, admin. I get it now. You’ve been hinting at it for week and have had no new rumors of FF NEX. The storyline is Sony is changing their minds on FF NEX. I was strongly thinking of selling all of my Nikon gear. My lenses are all sold. My D800E has not been sold. Instead, I will now keep the D800E, buy some nice Zeiss and Sigma Art lens. I’ll keep my NEX-7 kit but won’t buy anymore lenses. If Fuji puts a 24mp sensor into a new X camera with faster AF, I may consider a switch.
The mirrorless dream is dead in the Sony camp. The dream was for small and light camera and lenses. These A-mount fanboys have seized on mirrorless as the next marketing bullet point to rally around. Mirrorless A-mount will give them 1/2 stop improvement in DR, but these morons are now dancing around the campfire like removing the mirror is going to be a revolution. 1/2 stop improvment in DR with DSLR size body and lenses. This is the A-mount fanboys’ dream. I guess they can now look forward to 1/2 stop improvement and the small number of Sony Zeiss lenses. I’ll go on with the real Zeiss lenses that are widely abundantly available for Nikon. These A-mount fanboys will never see the like of the Zeiss 135 APO or the new line of high-end Zeiss, starting with the 55/1.4. Heck, even older lenses like the 21 Distagon or 100 Makro Planar will never see an A-mount. What a joke A-mount is.
@calxn I agree, _”The mirrorless dream is dead in the Sony camp. The dream was for small and light camera and lenses.”_
I’m going to replace all my DSLRs with Mirrorless. Because Sony seems to have abandoned the idea of Pro Nex cameras I’ve eliminated them fro the list of cameras I’m considering.
I shoot advertising, the photos are only used for the printed pages of catalogs and magazines. I neither want or need Full Frame, DX or M4/3 is more than enough. Check-this-out, Good enough for Vogue Italia, good enough for me. http://jonathanposner.tumblr.com/post/40780795719/my-olympus-challenge-10
This is all still a rumor and I think if A-mount fails they will have to make a pro nex. I am sure its not that hard and its probably there backup plan. I switched from a A850 to two nex-6 cameras and if sony was to stop making cameras there is always fuji and olympus.I think in life, one should know there place. Not everyone can be king of everything, I really think sony should really concentrate on the Nex.
That scares me that Sony ( Who already is known for being expensive ) is warning consumers that the new mirrorless Alpha cameras will be expensive. Why can’t sony put some of this awesome camera tech into their cell phones? Seriously I want an Alpha Mount on the back of my new Phone. : )
nothing is communicated to consumers about this, the whole mirrorless affair is strictly rumours
I suspect that when Sony bought Konica/Minolta the company never realized how tough it would be to compete against more entrenched brands. Having said that I think the company has done a pretty good job introducing some great digital cameras. The lens line has some holes, for sure, but that is improving. The @77 and @99 cameras are pretty good for shooting action events, but they did not quite meet the pre-release hype. The big question for me. Just what exactly can Sony do to zoom past Canon and Nikon in terms of features and performance?
Well, well, Sony had quite succesful cameras in the past for semi-pro market – A700, A900. Then they failed. For photographers, A77/A99 doesn’t make any exceptional improvement. I’d like to buy nowadays same A700/A900 bundle with better sensors of the same pixel number and upgraded AF modules – that’s all I need.
If Sony plans to keep their current prices or even worse, increase them, and still think that A mount lens sales will soar, they are still being deluded and insane about it. Only rich people will buy them, and usually rich people will buy Leica or Hasselblad.
No matter how good the cameras are, if there is no way for people to purchase lenses that are prices fairly, then what’s the point of investing so much R+D on a camera?
and what’s also insane is that they already have the tech and need no further RD to release a good, very “revolutionary” FF E-mount. there is already a FF nex and it would just need the right form factor.
they could have released a NEX9 a year ago, and have it already updated in 2014.
Lenses? Legacy glass would only be able to fill the gap temporarily. But they DO fill the gap. Besides, Sony always released more bodies than lenses. why not this time?
Then, everyone likes AF lenses more than MF lenses, as long as they are worth the money.
And finally, even if a NEX9 as I described it may not sound so rational, would anybody say that the RX1 is a rational choice? I think the most important result the RX1 has accomplished is to give a better reputation to Sony cameras. I don’t think they knew with certainty what the financial result would have been.
the NEX9 would do the same. But the more they wait, the less revolutionary it will be.
Personally, I think a FF E-mount is inevitable. the issue is WHEN, more than IF.
Is this FF mirrorless positioned above the a99 or as a replacement? If it is positioned above the a99, then a higher price would make sense.
A higher priced dSLR sized body with slower AF performance doesn’t make sense to me. I’d just get a CaNikon.
How would less parts make it more expensive?
Faster processor, larger buffer, that can for example do XAVC video could make it more expensive.
and without the annoying mirror, you get as fast as you like it to get.
plus,AF accuracy will be better too..
imagine no more back or front focus issues with any lens even at f1.4.
so it is the right time to go all mirrorless, all electronic camera design.
there is absolutely no con associated with it or caused by it.
without a mirror, the camera cannot focus with soft-focus lenses and filters, but mirrored SLR cameras can.
Less sales -> lower economics of scale -> more margin per unit
That’s assuming people are willing to pay more for less, of course. With the 99 people clearly weren’t.
Sounds like they think just something that looks like a DSLR is what they need. Have not realized yet they are competing against real high quality DSLRs with OVF and all. I don’t think Nikon or Canon have anything to worry about from what they are thinking. Which is clearly a cybershot/P&S oriented design. Nikon and Canon support photographers with real photography cameras, and keep doing it.
Then why are many editorial and commercial photographer abandoning there Canon cameras for Mirrorless.
But I do agree with you about the Sony SLT cameras, Sony should base their Pro Cameras on a NEX-6/7 like design.
You should switch, unless you enjoy complaining.
Are you going to pay the cost of switching systems for him? Thought not, so stop making dumb comments.
I hope Sony realizes that success of NEX was driven by canon, nikon, leica, and a zillion other lens systems. That will NOT translate to A-mount unless Sony enables adapters with an attachment point at short flage distance. I love my NEX but no matter how good an A mount camera is I would not even bother reading a review if it only supports A mount lenses.
Sony needs to start making some good flash guns for the new mount.
Sony needs 2 core technologies in order for Mirrorless cameras to succeed:
Fast & Accurate On Sensor PDAF to rival advanced DSLR AF modules e.g.Multi-CAM 3500FX
Fast & Accurate EVF to rival traidional DSLR mirror & prism, response time for Pro DSLR is in the region of 40-50ms, EVF delay should be 20ms or below (trigger response time is around 20ms – from seeing to pressing)
Dynamic Range of EVF needs to be improved such that shadow areas can be seen in real-time mode
They need more than that. They need a flash system and third party support for it. And forget about EVF rivaling OVF. They should take it to another level altogether, with larger medium format size viewing area and extended nose and eye relief due to super large high quality optical magnifier. As soon as they stope trying to make EVF as good as OVF, then they can leverage its advantages and make it clearly better.
+1 for OVF vs EVF (I prefer OVF for sports and high contrast situations)
As for lenses, A-mount lens have a longer flange distance which is good for tele lenses and ultra-wide angle lens with large rear elements.
Fuji/Panasonic is developing new type of CMOS with much wider incident angle – how is Sony responding to it? If Sony has similar technologies, it will be a good news for E-mount!
In order to beat Canikon Sony needs a large inventory of lenses. This is where their competition stands mostly. Sony’s cameras already have better price for camera.
Of course the A mount line should evolve into mirrorless. But this evolution is half way yet, since they have to decide about the usage of the space in front of the sensor, or use E compatible mount without adapters, or plain E.
Existing A-mount lens needs Weather-seal and fast SAM/SSM
It would be nice to see Sony to launch:
ZA Distagon 15/3.5
ZA Distagon 18/4
ZA Distagon 21/2.8
ZA Distagon 35/1.4
Sony 24/3.5 Tilt&Shift (OEM Zuiko?)
Sony 35/2 (make it cheap please!)
Sony 85/2 (metal mount please!)
Sony 16-35/4
Sony 24-70/4 w/Macro
Sony 70-210/4 w/Macro
ZA 100/2 Makro-Planar
ZA 200/2 APO-Sonnar
Sony 200/4 APO Macro
Sony 200/2.8G
Sony 400/4G
For APS-C
Sony DT 10-18/4
Sony DT 50-150/2.8
and what else?
+1 (weather seal is in my highest appreciated features, i agree on the list, i would full buy some of these macros)
The consensus seems to be that Sony will lose their bet (on A mount mirrorless).
What are the odd on:
1. delivering A mount mirrorless by Q1 2014?
2. Zeiss being ready with FF E mount lenses by Photokina?
After such news or anyone else tempted to buy A99?
What is the purpose of going mirrorless if the body will be the same size as a full DSLR and the flange focal distance is limited to A mount standards, which eliminates options of using thousands of other manufacturer’s lenses that could mount with a simple adapter. That’s the beauty of the NEX E-mount mirrorless system. Sure I would appreciate a little bit larger body with better ergonomics, faster accurate focus, and larger battery capacity, but at least utilize the benefits of mirrorless technology to make the professional camera body less of a behemoth and be able to work with a larger variety of lenses, allowing the photographer more creative freedom.
What if it is an e mount aps-c ibis dslr body? This way they may use some of the existing lenses. Keeping the FF for a lengthier, a mount only, even as a nex.
Sony DSLR cameras are just getting started compared to Canon and Nikon (I do know about Minolta). What I mean by this is that they don’t have a large established professional user-base.
As such if they want to break into the top flight DSLR user-base they are going to have to entice people with more than just a great camera, they are also going to have to be competitive/undercut the competition on price (both body and lens)… If they don’t do this they will have a commercial flop on there hands like the A99 (I know its a great camera… just overpriced on launch compared to the competition).
Sony seem to apply the same business model for there top flight camera equipment as there low/mid end equipment… ‘it has more features than the competition then charges more money’. This will work with low end cameras but not on top end cameras where most people are already invested in an ecosystem (ie canikon lenses) they need to be aggressive on price to sway the masses over like they did with the A77!
They’re going to release that E-mount FF or I’m jumping to Fuji, for sure.
There will be many people like me.
This is good news. I really want another player in the mainstream mid-high end market. Sony has the potential to shake things up.
One more issue for Sony (besides AF response & accuracy, Viewfinder response & clarity, Flash support, lens choices):
S/N ratio & Dynamic Range at High ISO (High end DSLR can produce low noise good quality image at ISO6400 or above), Sony needs to break this record in order to succeed!
I’ll buy Sony when they replace AVCHD video with normal Quicktime MPEG4
imho, early 2014 makes sense to me. Sony Open PGA, WPPI, Sony Open Tennis all early in the year with Sony as a sponsor. Weather sealed lens slowly dripping out. Though a 24-70 (zoom lock), 70-200 f2.8 “Weather Sealed” Fast Focusing PRO combo , maybe a 14-24 f2.8 for that Holy Trinity and that would be the min. Sony would need. Did I say Fast Focusing? and good CAF , (-3 EV AF). KILL DEAD that “Slide Show” Effect on sports shooting thru the EVF. at ZEBRA Hightlight blinky in LV. SSM Weather sealed on the 135mm f1.8 (maybe that could have a Macro switch, close AF), and a Great Macro “weather sealed” that you would not have to be so close, hmmm the 135? Kick in “Radio” Wireless Flash, that does not overheat and flash zooms to 200mm. (great match for the 70-200 and strobist flash focus) with 3 groups + main CLS like. THAT, would be a sign of seriousness in the PRO market. SONY has all the pieces, they just need to put it together correctly. 🙂