Image on top: The A99 FF sensor
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Two months ago I gave you a shock by telling you that Sony canceled the planed A-mount camera releases for 2013. This means not entry level FF, not high end FF and not A77 successor will come within the next 6 months. The reason why Sony dropped them is that the new CEO wants to really challenge the Canon-Nikon dominance in the only profitable pro camera market. And to achieve that goal the new cameras have to be not just a small upgrade but a real new big step forward over the predecessors. I am now working on the new A-mount roadmap. And I got some reliable info about the new Full Frame strategy:
1) Two new A-mount Full Frame cameras coming in 2014
2) There is a third A-mount Full Frame camera planed but it may be released in early 2015.
3) All new Full Frame cameras will be mirrorless (this means DSLR shape, A-mount, but no SLT mirror).
4) Both cameras will use a new generation 30+ MP sensor (yes, I said new and not the same of the Nikon D800…it’s better!).
There are a few more specs I am working on and I am asking all my trusted or possible new sources to share what they know at sonyalpharumors@gmail.com (or via anonymous contact form). Thanks!
Editor’s note: Also the E-mount roadmap got some small changes. That’s why it takes so long to see the new NEX-7 successor. Don’t worry, that camera is coming this year with announcement likely to be in late August.
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189 Responses
Hi
Title is wrong.
So is it 2013 or 2014 release now? @@
oh dear…what a mistake! Corrected it 🙂
surprised me big time in ‘2013’.
What about APS-C, and particularly A77 successor? Very interested in that camera!
coming too in 2014.
3 FullFrames??
What’s the Difference!
working on it.
2013 or 2014?
Drag your sources over the coals until they give you some specs, Andrea.
I got something. But I have to double check them before I post them on SAR!
Use your SR1 and SR2’s 😉
I really hope Sony nails this one and will still go full throttle on the NEX cameras. The AF and new lenses will be the key here.
Looks good especially with the extras that Sony put in for few GPS, WI-Fi for free and can tell you 30mp yields alot of results. Hope Sony & Nikon can bring 4K video in (although probably on pro models) and Sony can bring out a F/4 range of lenses and fill out missing lens gaps.
Sony’s got not much competition in the CSC market apart from the M/43 and Nikon & Canon were too late and botch it.
What is going to be difficult is gaining ground on the DSLR, quite lot people back in 2000’s all really brought into system Nikon & Canon and expanded their system purchasing lenses, flashes, bodies, etc and they will loose tons of money switching across and for what advantages ?
Having lots of glass and money invested in a system (like Canon or Nikon) only keeps very few from switching, in fact in my selling and buying activities I have met an amazingly high number of persons who burn through several systems every year, who cannot keep from tying everything new that is good. And hey: litterally every system on the market today is “good”, most even very good.
Therefore: If the new alpha FFs are killer cams, people will want them, and will sell their old systems grandmas, children and even wifes to afford the new system.
Pros don’t want EVF cameras, so unless Sony price these at really low levels they’re in for a big disappointment.
just wait and see…
EVF/OVF Hybrid?
I think it would make a lot of sense under certain point of views, but it would imply getting back to the dslr, with a traditional mirror which can be locked up in order for the sensor to feed the canonical live view of other dslr and, in case, an EVF.
Yet this is not what they said, since this would not be a mirrorless but in fact a “simple” dslr with an E/OVF.
I don’t know, I never owned an SLT but I liked the idea and I’m starting to fear that the next “PRO” sony cameras may have some AF issues, since until now AF pixels on the sensors seems to offer sensibly poorer performances compared to dedicated ones.
EVF/OVF hybrid is what I’m hoping for!
Oh. And a sensor that’s hands down the best one ever brought to market.
Ideally with a reverse engineered 3-layer Foveon design. Heck, if Pentax can get away with reverse engineering in-body image stabilization, SONY should be able to get away with reverse engineering Sigma’s Foveon sensors!
The result of this technological breakthrough should yield a range between ISO 50 and ISO 12,500 that’s noise free and useable!
Fingers crossed.
Na thats not right …….The Sigma sensor had poor ISO .The light had the pass thro 2 layers of sensors to get to the 3rd layer of pixles on the sensor .OVF is a step backwards .however I would like it if the EVF was moved to the side like the NEX so my nose in not pressed up against screen .
Could Sony make a lense element to focus the light from a Alpha lens with a reduce distance to the sensor …..If thy did that we could mount everone eles glass and have a slimmer body
Foveon sensors are organic.
Great st adsorbing light but poor at transmitting electrical info. Thats why the slow speed.
Sony has a patent for a hybrid organic silicon based sensor.
The silicon components are good at transmitting electrical impulses therefore will elimate the slow speed and other problems associated with foveon sensors.
Could you please explain me how a EVF/OVF hybrid should work if there is no mirror?
Well as I said, that would indeed contradict the absence of a mirror… so… nothing really to explain here 🙂
Unless of course, the OVF was direct, but I guess we are all going to rule that possibility out.
Ragefinder style OVF for those who cant use EVF
Unless you speak for every pro in the world, it’s best not to make generalizations that may not be totally accurate. I have seen the work of many professionals that utilize Sony SLT cameras. Unlike you, they seem to like their tool of choice.
Of course you are right this is why NOBODY is using Canon FF bodies at all 😉
Seriously, yes I am sure some pro shooters do use Sony, but it is a very small number.
I often see shops struggling to sell FF Canikon bodies as people come out the doors armed with the A99 (sigh)
Come on now lets get real pro shooters mostly use Canon. And most of them couldn’t care less about EVF’s
Pro market and EVF = instant fail
If EVF was the thing they wanted the A99 would be the top selling FF body, it’s far from that.
There’s an obvious fallacy in your reasoning. When Sony was still using OVF’s in their A900/A850 cameras, most of the pro shooters were shooting Canon too. Which leads us to another possible conclusion: they care about Canon and Nikon, less about viewfinders.
You’d be closer to having a point when both Nikon and Canon would have good working pro grade EVF cameras and pro shooters would ignore those models still.
Remember, the “pros” are a bunch of very conservative and sceptical users. The fact that many of them haven’t accepted EVF yet doesn’t need to mean anything. Digital cameras, image stabilizing and a lots of other stuff were quickly embraced by amateurs and enthusiasts, while pros just shook their heads. I we’d always listen to what the pros said, we’d still be lugging around large format glass plate box cameras by now.
Makes no difference Sony messed up with the A900 with no live view and video, they could have updated that model and done ok, but decided to not bother. A900 got old and people lost interest.
If you are aright then Sony would be doing “great” in APS-C land too. They’re not doing so well there either. Looks like pros and amateurs are not that interested in their EVF products.
Anyway Sony don’t have the lens range or the flash system to compete with Canon on any level. A99 hints and what Sony will do, overcharge for a FF body and sell not that many of them.
Klaus – in the days when the A900 and 5D Mark II were new cameras, the pros were shunning liveview and couldn’t imagine not using a viewfinder.
So, on one hand you are arguing that the pros don’t want to use new technology (EVF), but on the other hand you’re saying that Sony messed up by not including liveview (a feature that pros couldn’t have cared less about). You can’t argue both ways.
Of course, it needs to be said that Canon’s implementation of liveview was, and still is, pretty dire.
@ Klaus:
By your logic, the A580 should have done pretty good, better than the A55 which was released alongside. Truth is, for every A580, they sold about 10 A55’s.
The A580 offered an OVF similar to Nikon and Canon models in its class, offered class leading LV performance, offered a class leading sensor (<$1000 cameras) and had a competitive price. It didn't make a dent in the market and was one of Sony's worst sellers since it took over Minolta.
In short: your assumption that it's mostly the fault of the EVF, does not compute.
Zohee35 – where from do you have such information? As far as I’m aware A580 sold very well and accessories for it were out of stock few months after the release.
Learn better logic.
vampire logic
i see a lot pro do review they like EVF as well as from dislike become like. So i don’t see the big point here
Some pros want EVF, some don’t. What’s more important is than in a year or two – about the time Sony hits their stride with these cameras – far more pros will be pushed into video and the EVF will be looking a lot better to them.
Pros DO want EVFs, they just don’t know it yet.
And what is with APS-C A_Mount Cameras?
coming too. Don’t worry.
Yes what about APS-C camera’s, more people have interest in those camera’s then in Full Frame !!! please give some info about APS-C , thanks.
If any of these rumors are going to be true at all, we can expect:
1. Drastic price reductions on the SLTs.
2. No more FW updates for any of these.
3. Nikon will bring out a 40+ MP super camera 6 months before Sony and at ~ $1000 less.
pessimist
Try Realist. 😉
+1000 at point 3. I would bet a lot that something like this is going to happen.
regarding 1.
for those who own one: start selling (I’ll buy them
for those who will buy one: superb cheap good cameras.
regarding 2.
nothing new to most of the camera users (no matter which brand)
regarding 3.
seriously, you will find these arguments all over the products… cars, trousers, computers, phones, girlfriends …
so plz stop whining on those amazing news.
Would be surprise that Sony allows Nikon their mitts on off these 2 30mp+ sensors but only in a £6000+ pro camera like D4x (rumours of Nikon doing this of using the D800 sensor in a D4 body) – this was done before with the D3x.
Two FF body? Ok, great news! But, if it’s possible, make one of them as a real pro photo-camera (no video please). On the other put every video function you want.
Imagine they ditching apsc in the future, bring full frames down to entry level alphas. It would definitely be a 35mm age again albiet digital
Wow, with this piece of news, my resale value for my 2 units of a99 jus crashed. Thx sony
Why do you think the resale value will drop? Maybe it will rise a lot when we realy know what these new cameras can doe…
And why blame Sony, Sony did not give us this news, it is SAR that gave us this news. The resale value of my A700 is higher thanks to the SLT system they came out with 🙂
It’s a catch 22 situation. In order for my a99 value to be retained, aXXX has to really suck. But I wan sony to improve. If aXXX is excellent, then a99 will hv to be priced for the entry level ff so price will drop.
And what if A99 would be the last camera supporting legacy glass?
Not sure resale value will fall any more than it would have done with any new model.
Looking at it objectively, the two major things that will have changed is the method of autofocus and slightly more light to the sensor – but will those things make the new cameras that much better than the A99? The technology might be different and the mirrorless cameras might be better or worse at AF than the Sony A99, but the A99 will be exactly the same camera as it always was. But you can’t get away from the fact that any new model will usually be better than its predecessor – that will almost always be the case.
Yes, low light performance should be slightly better in the new cameras as well, but then the A99 doesn’t exactly suck at this.
Any more info on the rumored A77 software update yet?
They can boost the specs until the world comes to an end, fact is they also supply components to competitors, which is unlikely to change as it is a very lucrative business which will otherwise only go to a competing component supplier. So the differentiating factor will be marketing. Clever marketing can sell anything. The real struggle is with market perception – people drift to Canikon because the names are associated with photography, in the same way Sony was with TVs until losing it to the Koreans and now emerging Chinese tech powerhouse. How many of these buyers really care for specs or that the consumer EOS line has essentially four year old sensor tech. More affordable/mid-range lenses would help as well.
so bad… why make it mirrorless?? the distance must be the same for Amount lenses! for me sony is dying in camera market… better move on
if they really expect to drop SLT technology and focus on mirrorless, they will have to
– dramaticaly improve their hybrid AF (PDAF embeded on sensor)
– significantly improve the electronic viewfinder performance.
why not… this would be quite innovative…a game changer, but what about the diferences between A-mount and e-mount? both can support APS-C and FF… but maybe the A can focus on full frame and E on APS-C…
Hay I want a A78 ……..Dont give em Ideas .If im standing their in a few year time with a 70 400 G2 attaged to some compact I personaly holding you responsible lol
We’ll See –
It’s going to take a lot of time for SONY to get the Kinks out of this system.
At least one full year. –
The PDAF AutoFocus has got to work better than all others
The 2015 body may be the target –
They might have half the kinks out with that model
In the meantime
We have work work to do SONY continues to Fail with just basics
SUPPORT –
SONY support for cameras and camcorder is terrible.
Call centers have little or not training, so it takes forever to get basic info.
The Call centers don’t care they get paid by time.
FLASH
SONY – hvl-60Flash for TTL the new hot shoe overheats and locks up
repeatedly with basic function after 23 shots –
SONY made this with Zero heat sink to disperse heat
SONY could have used a low heat quartz light that is available but NO
SONY could not even make an acceptable flash
So it will take SONY quite some time for them to get their act together
If they can not make a basic flash that works,
how fast are they going to do adapt the A Mounts camera
In side by side tests – Nikon 910 Flash
gives us 10x the flashes before lockup.
Agree with u that any groundbreaking tech will take 1 yr to iron out. But seriously sony mktg should listening. Constantly hyping up all the new tech won’t help. Make the current one work. Use wat works here and make it even better. Slow releases isn’t an issue. Canon took wat 4 yrs for 5dm3. I can wait.
Even simple things like af. I can’t imagine with af sensor being ard for wat a decade? Sony af can still lose out in low light af compared to a 5dm3 in the field. It’s embarrassing to have a straight shot with center spot focusing hunting when my fren on 5dm3 jus beeps off.
Maybe their marketing department do listen, but from other front, maybe like TV business. Samsung with new tech (OLED for example) now become the market leader. Well, besides their pricing. But you get the idea, in the electronic world, you cannot stay with one technology for too long. Make fancy product with 1 year life-cycle, make sure it’s cheap enough to justify new product purchase when the old one died.
FLASH – Help TTL Help for new Shoe
HAVE YOU ALL BEEN AT ALL SUCCESSFUL using other Flashes on the new shoe cameras
We know TTL will be gone, but with the
Failures of the SONY HVL-F60 Flash
What choices do we have?
We have tried to use the Nikon Flashes on Sony Bodies – No Lock
Lots of marketing b***s**t it is in this rumor. I dont have any inside link to other manufacturer but I can give a rumor that the other brands also will releasee new dalr camera within next teo years. The PD AF system of canikon is far superior than any AF system from other manufacturer. Sony yet to prove that the AF system of thier mirrorless camera are on par with PDAF let alone to be superior than the Canikon AF system. Having said that I like what Sony is trying to do but I dont like lots of marketing B***s**t as it apears in this rumor. Sony has long way to go to shake up canikon position it is possible but not with thier curent technology and definatley not within the next 4-5 yeard time. Mind you canikon are not staying still once thry know they loose market. Cheers Meeran
Err, the PDAF in the Canon 650D is universally recognized to be diabolical. Meanwhile SONY have an IP sharing agreement with Aptina whoi make the Nikon 1 sensor, which is considered the fastest implementation released to date.
Chill out man. This is a rumour site, not official marketing info…
Geez, learn how to read.
Geez, late August? That’s a remarkable distance from the previous stance.
When it rains it pours. I think in 2014/2015 we are very rapidly going to see all the major manufacturerers (Canikon, Pentax, SONY) transition to fullframe. Crop dslrs will hold the same prestige as bridge cameras today.
If that means the true high end cameras will migrate to a format larger than 36×24, then I’m all for it.
+1
The high end just migrated down to FF, so I don’t think it’s likely that it will migrate right back up.
I mainly like this fact actually… but I’m afraid people mainly equipped with APS-C lenses won’t be too happy if all cameras are FF… so there better be some nice A77 successor APS-C also.
I think Sony will go full 3-5/6-7-9 FF A-mount with auto aps-c crop cameras. The 3 series will be the cheapest ever FF camera, yaaaaaayyyy 😀
So long as they produce a felt style camera that is FF and costs a lot less than the A99 with a 24 megapixel plus sensor result.
Si
All I can say is it’s exciting times.
Doesn’t matter if they can only make so much money, driving the market is really important.
Boring. They can dream, but with A-mount they will never be the industry leader: EVF alone is not enough to justify diving into the system.
just curious the AF performance in the romored mirrorless FF body.
At least, my a850’s AF capability can blow away my NEX-6’s on-sensor-PDAF, in almost any lighting condition, especially in low light (and in tele-lens, i believe)
… no one buying A99 now…. silly prices….now Sony wants to sell 4 FF at same time for prices that no one will go for? Ridiculous. Fantasy.
Some of us didn’t buy the 99 because we didn’t think it was good enough, not because of the price.
Still it all comes down to price/performance. You can sell something for more, but people have to feel like they’re getting something extra for their money. If you don’t have that something extra, you need to charge less.
It’s good enough, but not at that price. 😉
I fitted into that catagory – the A99 wasn’t enough of an improvement over my A900 to justify the extra price when I wasn’t interested in the video features.
But I picked up a refurbished copy from Sony.co.uk recently for about 2/3rds of the normally street price – then the equation made sense 🙂
Damn, it was you who bought the A99 was it?! I was really tempted by that deal.
Can you tell me what condition it came in? I’ve read a few horror stories of refurbished Sony Outlet cameras coming with thousands of shutter actuations, damaged SLT mirros, scratched bodies, filthy viewfinders etc.
Very happy with my refurbished copy and nothing to indicate that it’s not new.
I read a number of reports of others getting refurbished copies too and it was only because they all seemed happy that I went with one too.
Good to know, thanks.
I wouldn’t have bought an a99, even if it was priced at $999.99
Cause for me, it isn’t good enough.
Instead I just bought a used a900 for $1400 (lightly used mind you, it only has 4000 shutter actuations!) and I’ll happily shoot with it alongside my a850 until the EVF in a 2014 or 2015 SONY full frame body gets good enough for me to want to upgrade.
For me, working with the a99, shooting events like weddings in dark rooms, would have been a downgrade. I need to see the room in order to compose my shot before my two or three off-camera strobes fire. With the a99’s EVF I’d have to enter in too long of a shutter speed in order to properly see the room. It’s not 2002 anymore. You just can’t deliver clients images shot at 1/2sec with big orange streaky lights coming out of everyone’s body! I need to be at 1/100thsec or higher at f/2 at around ISO 800. And for me, the a900 or a850 is still the best A-Mount tool to do that with at a wedding…
I also find it quite annoying that while in 6fps mode, you can’t take just ONE frame when you squeeze down on the shutter! You always end up with at least 2 and usually 3 frames. And when you only want to take one, you shouldn’t have to switch modes back to 3fps. That slows down workflow. And don’t even get me started on the viewfinder blackout when you shoot a succession of frames.
Anyhow. Yeah. I’ll wait until SONY puts out a camera that I can use before I’ll upgrade. Here’s hoping that 2014 or 2015 will be the year that they bring it to market!
I won’t be using flash, but a stop or 2 improvement for high ISO, very accurate manual focus, flip out screen and instant preview means that I’m thoroughly looking forward to using it for candids at my next wedding.
But it will still work alongside my A900 which I’ll use for flash and for shots in bright sunlight where I prefer the OVF.
This is where the A99 was a bit of a disappointment for me, I was expecting a camera that was better in all aspects and not just some.
“I need to see the room in order to compose my shot before my two or three off-camera strobes fire. With the a99′s EVF I’d have to enter in too long of a shutter speed in order to properly see the room. ”
That’s totally nonsense. You just have to activate the studio mode and your EVF does not depend on the camera settings. You will be surprised that you now can see much more details in the EVF as in your old OVF. You might find it also very convenient that you can check deep of field on the fly by just pressing the aperture close button without getting a dark OVF.
Again a lot of complains from someone who don’t know EVF cameras.
Live View Display: Setting Effect ON/OFF
I think that would solve your problem with strobes, assuming that setting is on the A99. You would then be able to see through your EVF, better actually than you would with an OVF.
@Christian and @The Lotus Eater
So… In this “Studio Mode” and/or in this “Live View Display: Setting Effect ON/OFF” mode… Does the EVF display an image that’s calculated on the fly, i.e. a roaming autoexposure of the scene, as calculated by the TTL meter?
Is that useful? In my opinion, watching any kind of video feed that’s a roaming autoexposure can be quite jarring to compose with as it gets brighter and darker all the time depending on what you point your camera at…
Can the a99 be set to utilize 2 manual exposure settings? One manual exposure setting for purposes of display only in the EVF and one other manual exposure setting which will be the one that gets used when the picture gets taken…
If so, that might be good enough.
But yes. You’re right. I don’t currently own an EVF camera. I used to own two Minolta bridge cameras in the early 2000’s, and I’ve used a55’s, a77’s, and a99’s in camera stores and on the floor at trade shows. Perhaps these cameras that I experimented with didn’t have “Studio Mode” enabled.
From my experience, camera store salespeople, SONY Style store employees, and even the SONY reps at big trade shows like WPPI in Vegas don’t really know how to sell SONY cameras to discerning photographers who have real questions about the cameras. Instead they just say stuff like… “it’s way better than an OVF” “you can see your exposure settings before you take the picture”. And there’s a lot more to it than that.
Using this in store isn’t enough sorry … all you see is that the image is “different” and that’s it … the benefit of wysiwyg and in-display histogram and viewfinder-image-evaluation and the amazing speed the display has …
I have several problems with my a99 (AF-points and AF accuracy, loss of light due to mirror, BUT the EVF is not a problem for me any more.
Don’t expect people in stores to so much find the shutter button for you. Unfortunately, the arguably most complex camera ever never saw people trained to explain how to use it fully, much to Sony’s detriment.
I think the complexity factor is not so much an problem, at least for people like us who can find our way around the internet unaided. Unfortunately there’s no hidden menu setting for more fundamental problems like dependable focusing and flash delay.
This looks very promising and I have my hopes… I just hope there will be some reasonaly priced cameras and that they won’t do like they apparently plan with Nex FF… to price it way out of most peoples range.
I only see a drawback in those news, at least for me; I fear my old Minoltas will not behave as well as they do now, specially reagarding focus speed. Then, on the other hand it sounds kind of weird to have a, let’s say, fully electronic camera with an old focusing motor like the Minolta’s. Will Sony solve it not keeping compatibility with the Minolta heritage?
This might be great news for Sony crowd but not really for somebody who would switch. If o read your article correctly, all FF mirrorless will be SLR shaped – why would I buy it over Canicon FF dSLR?
Everybody is waiting for small FF ILC not SLR shaped one.
My thoughts too. If no mirror then no prism required either and no need to keep DSLR shape.
Why not just a compact camera, not small but smaller than traditional DSLR’s with full frame sensor.
Just a nice sized camera with great ergonomics, not everybody wants tiny like an NEX.
yep, NEX is too small for me but I can imagine that a camera with the size of Leica M6 would be perfect (plus grip, that’s what’s missing on M6). Just not SLR shape – there are plenty of them on the market
“why would I buy it over Canicon FF dSLR”.
Better performance (FPS), better live view, theoretically cheaper to produce… Sony really need to take advantage of that last one.
“Everybody is waiting for small FF ILC not SLR shaped one”.
Everybody? Larger SLR shaped camera hold the advantage with ergonomics and handling.
“Everybody? Larger SLR shaped camera hold the advantage with ergonomics and handling.”
for that we have canikon – why trying to reinvent the wheel? I cannot see canikon users switching to something similar to what they have – as simple as that. what’s missing is small FF ILC, there’s only one, it’s called Leica M.
It nobody had reinvented the wheel, they’d still be made of wood, instead of alloy and rubber.
Hahaha +1
it would still be a wheel 😉
+1
“theoretically cheaper to produce… Sony really need to take advantage of that last one.”
Economics of scale is working for Canon and against Sony. It would surprise me absolutely zero if a NEX cost more to produce than a comparable Canon DSLR.
So, I hope E-Mount lens roadmap that slightly changed will get us more quality ZOOMs. It`s about time SONY. I`m thinking to switching to FUJI if that won`t happen in August.
If there is an ‘early 2015’ camera then it may be what some of us are hoping for. A real contender in the $5k plus range that would be introduced at Photokina next fall. You compete with the pros with professional equipment at pro price.
+1
Do you think price of SLT-a57 will go up as it is the best camera in that category? I saw price of a57 went up after Thanksgiving deals…
The quicker the A99 is discontinued the better. I want a cheap one. 😀
Total crap
A 30 mp sensor is garbage certainly not a game changing advancement.
30mp is not big swing..maybe Sony have a new sensor. Who knows some wonder sensor. What I care about is if my screw drive lenses will work, if not then I’m outta here double quick
30+mp is not 30mp
Maybe nobody asked for a 54mp sensor, except you. In fact, maybe Sony did this just to spite you 😉
479 people voted for high resolution as one of the most important features.
A sizable number.
Enough to justify one high resolution camera.
You sir are the most ridiculous person on the planet, if you think Sony gives a **** about 479 people who ‘want something’.
I’m starting to think about taking up a collection from readers here to pay this psycho Barry off so he wont post his megapixel babble here anymore. I’m thinking of chipping in $500, anyone else? What will it take, Barry? If we can raise $5,000, you can go buy yourself something else and leave us alone.
In a 2011 sar posting i recently read every sar responder agreed that no one needs more than 8mp and many argued that 2 or 3mp is enough.
Thats fanatical and thats why i need to speak up or we will only hear from people like that.
You are nuts, my friend.
I made this offer months ago and nobody took me up on it. I’m willing to pitch in to buy this nuisance any other camera he wants (besides Sony) just to keep me from having to weed through his constant megapixel crying here.
30+mp is a greater than 20% increase in resolution. If it comes in at 30 even it will be the 2nd highest resolution camera available in 35mm form factor. No one realistically expects a 100% increase in resolution aside from you.
Resolution is nice, but judging by this site and consumer choices in general, the demand is for improvements in other areas (AF system, flash system, lens choices, dynanic range, etc.).
Your math is wrong. 30mp is only about a 8% increase in resolution over 24mp.
Sony will never change the game with piddly little miniscule improvements like this.
The last resolution increase was 2 years ago and apparently the next one will be a year away.
A 100% resolution increase in that time is moy much to ask for.
Shall we see exciting new technology in the upcoming 7 already?
What does Sony need to do to compete again Nikon and Canon in the pro market?
Primarily, a FF camera that:
1) is rugged and reliable
2) has very fast and accurate AF
3) has a great lens selection
4) has amazing low light performance
5) has excellent video capability
It needs to be class leading in at least some of these areas (the more the better) and they need to broker a deal with Reuters, etc.
Exactly as stated above
I am a professional currently shooting with an a850 and an a700 as back up.
Just make it reliable with excellent pic quality and res. I am not even all that particular about which view finder they go with as long as it has one to view in bad lighting conditions. Higher flash sync than 1/250th would be nice also.
Agreed.
If they get rid of the mirror, I wonder if they could put in a shutter that syncs at 1/500th or maybe even higher??? I’d love to be able to sync flash at higher speeds. These days I have to resort to using ND filters if I want to shoot in the sun and combine the ambient light with 1 or 2 off camera lights on stands!
I’d also be happy if they’d put out a camera with a useable ISO 50, as that’d help to negate the issue for me too.
Since the current mirror does not move the flash sync speed would not be changed by taking it out. I assume the flash sync speeds, not an expert on this, have more to do with the shutter speeds. The shutter has to be able to be fully open during the flash. At high shutter speeds the top shutter starts to drop before the bottom shutter clears the frame. If Sony can get a global shutter working at high shutter speeds, then very high flash sync may be possible, but you would still need to make sure the flash fired while the shutter was open. The RX1 with leaf shutter can sync to 1/4000 second. So with no shutter this might be doable.
So Mars – let’s put the a99 up to your 5 pt test:
1. The a99 has questionable durability; the card door made noise and there was a gap when you flipped the LCD around, which would allow dust/sand etc to enter. I owned the a99 for a while and wouldn’t have felt comfortable in harsh environments with it.
2. The AF was ok, but nothing like a high end Canon/Nikon. Certainly fast for live view AF, but nothing like the 5d3’s advanced AF/tracking system.
3. Lots of holes in the Sony lens line, even though they have 20+ years of Minoltas that will fit. No 24-70 F/4, No 70-200 F/4, and unlike the L lenses that are all weather sealed, the Sony lenses are not. Pros like their lenses to survive harsh conditions.
4. The a99 was pretty good in low light, but still no 5d3/6d/D600. The 1/3-1/2 EV light robbing SLT didn’t help.
5. The a99’s video is a line skipping hot mess that lacks fine detail and has bad moire and artifacting issues. It’s awful.
If Sony really wanted to dominate and flex their tech muscles, they should:
Release a body with an OVF and strip out the amateur crap, like panorama and picture effects. Have it use CF cards like the big boys. 100% weather sealed wouldn’t hurt. Hype up the fact you get a built-in teleconverter (unlike Canon where you can’t even mount EF-S lenses on a full frame camera). Stop crippling the video side and have a real codec and some actual resolution. Release and updated A900 basically with excellent video and live view / flip up screen and I’d switch back to Sony for sure.
I agree with you too. Though it certainly wouldn’t be a dealbreaker for me if new full frame cameras only accept SDHC cards. I’d adopt them if I HAD to…
+1.
A completely updated A900 (e.g.with combined benefits of OVF/EVF, updated sensor, updated AF, quieter shutter actuation, increased longevity and waterproofing, etc.) is EXACTLY what SONY needs to deliver. Purity of form and improvement is what is needed, not increased complexity!
Want an analogy? The Mazda Miata/MX-5 improved for 15 years until around 2005, as they refined the original 1990 Miata. It then got progressively worse from that point onward as they added luxury (and unnecessary…) items like folding roofs, etc.
In my point of view you missed following:
6) an open SDK for their firmware (compared to MagicLantern) … so they could ignore Firmware Wishes, all those awesome people would solve those problems.
7) increase basic interior like image processor (not much necessary) and buffer (very very necessary)
8) AF-point locations and types (addition to 1): regarding to the APC-SLTs the AF-Points are way to big and too view! A99: perfect in size BUT too view and just centered.
9) Features like Silent Shutter (wedding photographers love this 5dm3 feature, …)
6) Open OS is good, but Japanese camera makers don’t seem to interested in open software philosophy. Maybe their programmers are too busy making money, unlike the westerners who have a lot of free time to write a program for free(kidding). But who knows, Canon may have already seen the power of the magic lantern.
Open up the software to amateurs and they might do a good job of fixing problems.
Much more likely they will so a real professional job if wrecking the system.
In the recent sar survey almost as many people asked for high res and square sensor as asked for higher iso.
Not everyone cares but if sony wants to be a player in the high end professional market one of thier new cameras needs to be high res. Another one needs to be high iso.
Professionals allways carry two or more cameras.
A stick with my a77 until i se the new ones and se what it is. 😉
To me, 30 mp is not a big deal. The D800 sensor is pretty darn good, and nudging those specs with a half stop of iso, and a bit less noise is NOT the revolution that Sony is suggesting they will be bringing to the marketplace, that will be a game changer. Back to the drawing board guys!!!
seriously… barry stop your whining for more MP.
IF sony really does give it to you ur dream 100MP camera.
I fear that its burst shot is 1 fps.
Im waiting for this since start of digital I think. 😀
FF mirrorless, here I come. Time to start saving. Future seems lovely..
Same here, just waiting for the FF E-mount mirrorless.
I see now how sony is saying their lens sales will go up 50%…
cause its only FF for 2014… all crop goes to FF…
Users have no choice but to upgrade to FF and buy new lenses.
Other possibility are:
1. Incompabilities with non AF-D approved lenses, forcing ppl to switch lenses
2. Compabilities of having a-mount work on oly/fuji systems, so other people start buying their lenses
what about their RX cameras ? I would like to see an upgrade in this family too
RX seems to come from different planet, they keep secrets pretty well.
If I was Sony my short term ambition would not be challenging the CaNikon dominance: Those have something Sony is far from. They has global support and service for professional photographers. This is a critical organization needed to be able to compete with CaNikon. It is less about set of features and lenses….
However there are for more enthusiasts (willing to spend) than there are pro’s. This is where Sony focus should be. Once established in that segment it can be time funding available to build up the pro’s support network.
To be a serious competitor to CaNikon Sony need to do everything right for , say 10 years. Can they do that? Maybe – but Sony as a whole are losers in home electronics (to Korean brands). Maybe Samsung is the company to challenge CaNikon, or maybe a Chinese company that today does not exist.
Judging from your logic – no one will dare to challenge Canikon since by that time they will have 20 years of ahead time and so on. It’s neverending circle.
Also, you say Korean brands…. I know only Samsung, even Samsung is struggling on camera market. In fact it’s succeeded only at smartphone/tablet/TV market.
Yeah, but Samsung has dethrone Sony in TV business. So yes, challenging Canikon is possible. Maybe a bit harder than Samsung vs Sony in TV business, because photography is a system and a lot of people have invested a lot in Canikon glasses.
Samsung outsell Sony in TVs because they’re cheaper.
Sony cameras are not cheaper from a whole-system perspective than Canons are.
Andrea, when can we expect the rumors for 2015 and 2016?
When SLT came out Sony said the price would be lower because there were no moving parts and no pentaprism. Now they will have even less parts without the mirror. The a77 and a99 were not very inexpensive. I really hope Sony can release a 6D equivalent in both low noise and price. Sub-$1500 FF please.
Nonsense. Sony has never stated the price would be lower. It doesn’t take a genius to realize though, that *cost* price could be lower. Which for example could translate in higher margins. And that’s exactly what Sony needs.
All the margin in the world won’t save you if people don’t want to buy your product.
The A55 sold better in one year than their next best seller (A700) in almost 3 years.
So besides a cost saver, the introduction of SLT’s also marked a clear boost in sales. They just didn’t manage to continue that growth.
Well, we all know about the A55 success story, but what about elsewhere? I’d be quite surprised if the A77 outsold the A700.
This is a fantastic rumor!!!
I have a feeling one of these models is going to be the true successor to the a900> Amazing sensor with straight forward features.
Why there are so little mentions of the greatest advantage – fast live view focusing ?
Sony would forget too!!
What about upgrade of the monitor functionality?
It will be hard press to beat Nikon, if Sony doesn’t have exclusivity over its best sensors.
So does this mean no e-mount full frame cameras in 2014? If so, that means all the rumors about that were wrong.
I love you Andrea, I really do, not enough to bang you but surely a kiss!
You giving us (A users) so much love lately, its really nice, thanks for keeping us updated and getting us trusted information. I was looking my way into changing to Nikon and start with the d600 but it seems Sony will hit harded than CaNikon.
Andrea: Can you give us a proximity on releases?
This is good but though what about E Mount? Looks like Sony is not giving enough attention to E Mount cameras. There is already a need for some good lenses for the E Mount but no news of them.
Is the idea to use the existing A Mount lenses to the expected A Mount FF mirrorless cameras?
Sony is giving a lot more attention at E mount that it does to the now 30 years old A mount. Both low end to mid-end video camera use the E, if you want to use the A, put an adapter on.
What some people don’t seem to understand is that it takes time to absorb another company as Sony did with the camera division of Konica Minolta, more so in Japan. More so with a company who after all is an offshot of one founded in 1665. Tradition has a different meaning in Asia than in America.
It would be interesting to know how well Minolta was integrated into Sony in 2006.
Camera wise, it looks like a three prong group, consumer and two ‘enthusiasts’ (used to be called amateurs): NEX, truly Sony and the Alpha Line, renmant of Minolta.
Where Sony is not present is in the pro league as Canon and Nikon are with their hi-end real pro cameras.
Where have you been? We got stuff about E-mount at least twice a week.
I hope that the video mode will be fully manual but allowed us to use the amazing AF ???
Larger viewfinders please… with much greater eye and nose relief than any OVF can offer. Make that viewfinder huge medium format size.
30+ megapixel sensors? Wonderful, that’s all I need, even SMALLER photosites.
If higher numbers are what sell, why dont they market the photosite micron size?
Amazing camera A has 4 micron photosites!
Amazing camera B has 8 micron photosites!
Why cant we market the numbers that way instead!
Because everyone would buy cameras from 8 years ago such as the Minolta 5D, which has a pixel pitch of about 8 micron.
Honestly speaking the Emount Lenses roadmap is empty now, those lenses said to be released had been released… Hoped Sony will give us some hint…
If Canikon had come with SLT we’d have everyone commenting about “old-fashioned flapping mirror” and “it’s only 1/3 stop”.
Also, marketing, branding, momentum are big in favor of C/N. If sony had made a SLT D800 with the exact same capabilites and Nikon a mirror A99, the Nikon A99 would outsell the Sony D800.
Sony HAS to step up marketing and imporve their pricing. Only last month did Sony start showing TV comercial in LA about the Nex-3N. Never seen one on any Alpha or anohther NEX.
They have to break the mental, not technological, barrier of everyone thinking that pro-camera means Canon or Nikon and that people stop asking, “is that a Sony? Why not Canikon?”.
They could quadruple their lenses, with SSM, Zeiss quality and better prices and still would not instantly make a big dent on the pro-market.
OVF/EVF is not a problema, the A580 and 900/850 did not make an impact even if their OVF were better tan C/N.
Not true Sony have probably lost market share with SLT’s than they had with OVF. I’ve more chance of meeting Michael Jackson in the street, than Sony has of making any kind of serious challenge to Canikon in the full frame market.
All talk and no action, when they had the A99 released “they chose” to price it above it’s rivals. Hence the A99 bombed sales wise
Sony stated the reason that the A77 ended up as a SLT/EVF was due to stronger than expected A55 sales. The A55 actually got some good mainstream media, it was the Canikon biased media that ignored it.
Marketing is the biggest problem, not the technology.
Canon made pellicle mirror cameras long before Sony entered the camera business. They stopped making them because they were a hard sell.
I agree with you here. Sony really need to up their marketing. They have the technology and is just as good if not better then their competitors. They just need brand recognition.
I fully agree on this, and I’ve said it before… There’s a huge lack of camera marketing from Sony. I’ve seen only one Nex commercial ever here in Sweden, and it sucked compared to the Nikon 1. Most people seriously have no clue that Sony makes other cameras than P&S…
I am also waiting for a NEX9, 12 MP would be enough for my use.
DSLR size is to big for me. A RX10 would also be interesting.
I’m also interested in NEX- FF , but curious about the price !
RX100, A-mount FF, with form factor little smaller than X-pro1 is a winner. 30+ MP not strictly necessary. Retake some of all those 24f2.8, 35f2.8, 24-50 f4, from the old times,… the lenses are there, “slow” but small with HQ and not necessary expensive. Sony has path to grow from new comers, and Zeiss, G lenses, etc are a second step, and also there are. VEry good news from Sony, but the Canikonning always strikes back!!.
Does the market really want those ‘slow’ lenses? We get heaps of moaning on here about Sony making a 85/2.8 rather than a 85/1.8, yet the lens is one of the best in A mount.
If the new A cameras are going to be mirror-less but retain the mirror box, then the mirror box should be put to good use with the installation of a built-in helical extension tube mount and a shift and tilt sensor mount (in addition to IBIS) so that every lens can be a macro and TS lens.
The ONLY advantage to 32mp over 24mp is to allow clean 2x downsampling to 4k video at 8mp.
This is good for video but is sonys way of saying still picture photographers can go to h*ll.
Given that the usual aspect ratio would be 16:9, 28 MP would be the best starting point for a 2x downsampling rate without cropping. But Sony also uses a crop factor to allow a shift when using the digital stabilization.
4k at 26:9 is about 8mp.
2x downsampling would require 32mp at the same aspect ratio. At a smaller aspect ratio it would require more to allow for cropiping.
Remember we are talking about 2×2.
28mp will not allow for that.x
At the same aspect ratio. But Sony is not going to make a 16:9 still camera. So a 4:3 camera that crops to 32mp (downsampled 8mp) 16:9 will be 48mp.
So I see two possibilities here. Sony has created a viable “stacked” sensor ALA Foveon in which case the 30+mp may be purposefully vague because of the difference of how megapixels are/should be measured when comparing Bayer style sensors to stacked sensors (also there is less of a need for downsampling period). OR, the sensor uses the tech from F65 CineAlta camera and the bayer filter is rotated (similar ironically to Fuji’s old Super CCD) to eek out more horizontal resolution with fewer actual photosites. Comparing the actual vs interpolated resolution in the F65 ~32Mp would make sense for this new full-frame camera.
How does this affect the full-frame NEX rumors? Personally I have no interest in a “DSLR” styled mirrorless camera and even less if it has a useless (for me with no Alpha lenses) A-mount registration distance.
Assuming no increases in the noise (which is likely given the march of technology) compared to the existing 24mp and the 1/3-1/2 stop gained by taking out the SLT mechanism there would a tangible gain to still photographers. It may not be huge but it will be there. Also the “video” mode is essentially how Sony is scanning the sensor for the view finder so an sensor that is video optimized will also give still photographers a better experience.
I have mixed feelings, of course im always excited over new technologies from Sony. Im quite happy with my A77+5n combo. Admin do you have any news of a RX10 or an APSC with a fix Zeiss lens to compete with Ricoh,Nikon and Pentax. I was suppose to save up for the A99 but since they are ditching the SLT there is no point to this,unless the pricing of A99 goes really down. i will still buy it. RX10 anyone???
I can see a lot of worrying about these new cameras would mean losing compatibility with legacy Minolta lenses. I’ll state this:
COMPATIBILITY WITH SCREW-DRIVEN LENSES WILL NOT BE LOST!
Why?
1) It would obviously be very suicidal for Sony to do so.
2) Also, it would imply that 5 out of the 7 Zeiss lenses currently available for A-mount would be crippled. The users buying that caliber of lenses are likely to buy lots of expensive bodies and other lenses and stuff. Why alienate and lose their best customers? And who would dare to put money in Sony foto gears after such a blow to existing customers?
3) I haven’t seen this last aspect brought up before – Just consider for a moment what value you think Sony is putting on their exclusive agreement with Zeiss (ruling out Zeiss AF lenses for CaNikon or anyone else). Rather invaluable, wouldn’t you say? How would Zeiss react if getting the news that most of their lenses would end up in the obsolete bin next year? Gems like ZA 135/1,8 or ZA 85/1,4 e.g.?
We know that Zeiss as one of the most important conditions specifically put forward that if they would get in with the Alpha system, they would do it for the long haule. Longevity is extremely important for them. Many western companies look for the next quarter report, but Zeiss look for decades (which in fact is rather like Sony). I think Zeiss said something like this to Sony – You know that buyers of these lenses want to have bodies for them for the next hundred years? Knowing something of the company culture for Sony before, they will honour this even if it would mean less profit for them, or sometimes even loss perhaps.
If Sony has to make all the Zeiss lenses work with the new bodies, then the Minolta lenses is going to work too.
.
I can see ONE possibility only that would make Sony consider dropping compatibility with Zeiss ZA (and Minolta screw-driven lenses), and that is if the new cameras would be so truly revolutionary that both the users of those high end glasses and Zeiss themselves would accept all these exclusive lenses to be obsolete.
And if the new bodies would be THAT remarkable, then the reduction av Minolta legacy lenses to manual focusing only (or whatever) would probably be acceptable too. But I don’t belive neither Zeiss nor the high end users or indeed Sony theselves would believe that these new revolutionary bodies would be quite that revolutionary…
.
Another possible but not very probable route would be sensor shift AF. No need for screw drive or in lens motor to achieve AF, in any lens. 🙂 When Sony drops the mirror entirely, there will be loads of space in the camera for other fun stuff. Like a refined modern version of Contax AX.
The more I think of it, the more I want it. Please please please Sony, if you perfect the technology of FF sensor shift AF, preferably in a NEX body, I will stay with you forever!
Current lenses will all be SSM/SAM eventually. Though only at Sony’s glacial rate of lens production. At that point having a screw drive on the low-end models won’t make as much sense.
Even once that point is reached, there will be demand to keep the motor at the high end, just like it is with Nikon.
Dun trust me, trust sony to do away with minolta lenses.
Loads of evidence points towards their end.
Look at why sony start releasing new lens revisions.
More than likely, AF-D will be the new big thing on the new FF.
And for it to be compabitible you would probably need a SSM lens.
Sure, SAM and maybe minolta lenses might still work…
BUT at way slower AF speed.
Sure the new Sony sensor will be better than anything else on the market, the usual marketing blabla. A look at the performance, especially of the APS-C tells otherwise.
«All new Full Frame cameras will be mirrorless (this means DSLR shape, A-mount, but no SLT mirror)».
So… They’ll be MIRRORLESS or DSLR shaped? Just in case my joy is breathing out… 😀
if sony release new firmware for slt cameras with contrast detection autofocus
you can just remove the slt mirror and you have a mirrorless camera as nex camera
it is possible to do..
I guess this must be the A7 and A7r, two FF mirrorless Alpha cameras (not FF mirrorless a-mount as stated in the rumor).
Or are we still on for FF a-mount cameras for 2014 ?