Got some news about the famous Sony “hybrid” solution: A trusted source just let me know that it is Sony’s plan to make the NEX-9 Full Frame camera compatible with the Alpha Mount. But he said this will not be through the use of a simple adapter. Apparently Sony engineers found another solution but he didn’t unveil me how that will work.
I may ask other sources if they have a clue about the Sony’s solution. The only idea I have comes via the [shoplink 10295 ebay]Zeiss Ikon Contax I, II and III (here on eBay)[/shoplink]. They had a sort of native double mount on camera. I am really curious to see this!
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
268 Responses
Yay! I hope it’s an in-camere solution (like a ‘moveable mount’).
Sony has to do some nice innovations (as well as make the basics right) to justify the price they’re most likely going to ask for the Nex9. Also I think it really should offer something more than just being a Nex7 with a fullframe sensor.
Keeping my fingers crossed for Sony to bring on another inovations as well.
Well what if the body had a mechanical way to move the sensor in and out from the lens depending on the type of lens used. Also, the body can have an installed hidden adapter that just pulls out around the mount and allows for extra distance between the lens and body. Either way, it sounds exciting.
Don’t waste your time reading any further down this list of speculations from the clueless. Here’s what we’re gonna deliver…
NEX 9
24 MP
14 bit RAW
25 On Sensor Phase Detect Auto Focus Points (1 center cross -1 ev, 8 cross 1 ev, 8 horizontal 1 ev, 8 vertical 1 ev)
A & E mount compatible (native)
The rest I can’t tell you…
Sounds fine, but why does it take so long? Summer 2014 is far away.
That all looks great to me. I will never understand people who claim to be unable to take sharp stills without ibis.. Has any thought has been given to sensor performance with high-incidence lenses like M and Contax G?
It will feature a updated version of the 36 MP CMOS in the Nikon D800/E. By the time this thing gets released no one will want to buy a FF camera with only a 24 MP sensor.
That’s would be awesome to have a kind of double-mount camera !
+10000
I would buy 2 of those!
What about IBIS? I won’t buy it without.
No way it will have IBIS.
This rumor is strange, I think the adapter mount is a good solution + it lets you use the PDAF SLT module, unless theyve made such amazing adavnce on OSPDAF this is actually a bad thing imo!
i guess it should have it on camera, since none of the alpha lenses have it, unlike the NEX lenses with their OSS.
The problem is that the camera would have to be bigger. And many people would complain about that (there’s a certain obsession about ‘pocketability’ nowadays…).
Personally I wouldn’t care if the camera was a bit bigger but with IBIS. I guess lenses could be a bit smaller if they didn’t have to have OIS?
“a little bit bigger” is 26,5mm bigger flange focal distance. That would result in bodies with approximately TWICE the thickness of present NEX cameras. No thanks.
Please don’t spread misinformation. What does stabilization have to do with flange distance? The stabilizer can be built onto the sensor from behind or from the sides, keeping the flange distance just the same as it always was. And it would likely extend the thickness of the body by less than a centimeter, surely that’s not making it twice as thick!
Stabilization in A-mount cameras uses motors which are located on the sides of the sensor. Not behind it. But it still might require additional space in camera body for better air circulation and heat dissipation.
That’s why “bulky” cameras will always have advantage over small one – it’s easier to get rid of heat what puts less stress on a components and reduces the amount of thermal noise from sensor.
@Al
it’s not disinformation, and it’s nothing to do with in-body stabilisation. It’s simply because, in order to focus at infinity, A-mount lenses have to be positioned 26.5mm further from the sensor than E-mount lenses. It’s built into the optical design of the lenses for the relevant mount, and short of introducing a further optical element (which would degrade the image and only partially deal with the issue, any NEX “natively” mounting an A-mount lens is inevitably going to be that much thicker that an NEX supporting only E-mount lenses.
Steve, that hypothesis only works if you assume that the sensor will be equally far from the “back wall” on both cameras. If it is possible to move the sensor further back within the case somehow, it does not have to be that much deeper.
Tom, try to think that through once more. If the sensor would be moveable such it can generate the current flange distance of the A-mount, the camera would have to be as thick as the A-mount DSLRs. Something like the Pentax K-01.
Unless the whole camera body could compact itself (which would be like a moveable mount).
I think you misunderstood my post. I meant if sony engineers somehow manages to move the sensor closer to the back wall during design of this new camera, the difference in thickness may not be as big. Some ways to accomplish this;
1. Make rear-screen thinner than current camera
2. Make frame in rear thinner and/or eliminate dead space (if there is any…)
The only movement I would like to see in sensor is ibis which is up-down-sideways, not back and forth.
Bigger doesn´t mean worse. A few millimeters more in the thickness and 10 or more in the height of the NEX body would it make even more ergonomical. IBIS is important!
It will have to be considerably thicker and that detracts from NEX’s charm.
If we speak of NEX, F”ck the A mount unless with the use of an adapter!
Exactly…
If I buy a Nex-9, I don’t want it to be much thicker than a Nex-7… And also I don’t care about using those big A-mount lenses on the FF Nex.. Anyway, there is an adapter to do that.
A Nex is a small camera body concept so please Sony keep it as “simple” as possible and don’t try to “satisfy” (sale) it to everybody, that could prevent you to make a great Nex camera !..
The NEX-7 is much bigger than the NEX-5. Didn’t detract any of its charm for me.
Olympus pulled off some absolutely amazing 5-axis OIS in the E-M5 and the camera is not thick at all. Sony and Olympus are now friends. A thin body with IS is quite possible.
Well, the OM-D has to move a much smaller sensor AND the mechanism for the IBIS is the reason the camera’s got such a big viewfinder hump. I can’t see Sony making that kind of design decision.
Since we’re talking about the flagship NEX-9, I don’t think it’s going to matter if the camera body size is a little bit bigger than the NEX-7 to include sensor IS and dual mount. It will still be significantly smaller than a a37. If you want super compact get a NEX-3n or 5r. That’s why there are different product lines.
Exactly! I don’t see people complaining about the size of Leica cameras. And AFAIK they’re quite bigger than the NEX. And even if there’s a FF Nex with IBIS and EVF, I believe it’d still be smaller than a Leica M.
Let’s face it: NEXes are small but aren’t really pocketable. You still need a bag to carry them (at least my NEX6 with the 16-50mm PZ doesn’t fit in my pockets). So what if you have to carry a bag which is a couple of centimeters bigger?
As long as it’s smaller and ‘less threatening’ (dSLR always will get more attention tan a mirrorless which look like a cybershot) than a DSLR it’s fine.
I wouldn’t be so sure about that. The difference in size between A37 and largest NEXes isn’t really as huge as some people picture it in their imagination. A37 is really tiny for a DSLR.
As small as the A37 (or the Nikon D3xxx series) may be, they still look like a dSLR and grab more attention. Which can be bad, depending on the situation.
Yep. Agreed. That’s probably why some ppl do that: http://www.petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2010/03/dslrpink.jpg 😉
Pinkenta from DigitalRev TV? :p
@Tom S
It doesn’t make the camera any slimmer it has to allow sufficient room for the sensor to be moved far enough back to allow an A-mount lens to focus at infinity. Whilst a moving sensor is a possible solution to this “hybrid mount”, I don’t see how this would make the camera remotely comparable to an NEX in slimness. I suppose it might be possible to produce a “telescopic mount”, but there’s precious little space in the E-mount register distance to allow for such a thing which would have to be very compact, robust enough to carry large A mount lenses and engineered to very fine tolerances. I simply don’t see how it can be done in any body remotely like that of a current NEX.
Yeah, the big issue with a telescoping lens mount is it has to be ROCK SOLID, any minor play and you’re going to have focusing errors galore. I doubt this is really feasible.
Damn undefined acronyms! I was wondering why people wanted a long billed wadding bird with their camera, until with the help of Google I found out what you were talking about.
If I didn’t already have a good body with IBIS, then I would understand. But then if I didn’t have any A-mount lenses, I wouldn’t be wasting my time in this thread. If it turns out to be true that Sony has found a way to square the circle and make my old A-Mount lenses fit the Nex-9, then I am DEFINITELY a potential (not to say “Take the ****ing money!”) purchaser.
I’d like to enlighten you a bit… IBIS is nowhere near as effective as ILIS (in lens image stabilization). It takes a bit more power to use lens stabilization, but that’s the only downside. Moving the elements (usually a a single element) is by far more accurate and speedy. I can’t fault you for wanting to stabilize lenses that don’t offer that feature, but for optimal performance, the lens is where it is. Sorry, but IBIS is not used by CaNikon for this very reason. Sony knows it, too!
Not really true, OIS can never correct for rotation movement for instance, like the OMD. The OMD’s IBIS is as good as any OIS out there.
Though its all irrelevant, Sony isn’t going to support Canon EF lenses that have a wide selection of IOS version, they will support the Sony/Minolta A mount, which has virtually no OIS lenses(aside from a handful of 3rd party choices). So IBIS in a Nex 9, which will have practically no native E mount FF lenses on launch, would be awesome.
Any Sony Pro NAB 2013 rumors yet?
Would also be very interested.
If Sony is planning on releasing a new pro FF camcorder next month at NAB, we could see a new “NEX FS 200” with this new mount!
I wonder……..
Seriously… Cliff-the-Dork just can’t seem to post anything else. NAB is for video fools. Come back to reality – this is a cameracentric blog, not a video chasing dog blog.
Double mount camera would be awesome … and for me one reason to buy it … because I have 4 G prime lenses.
Maybe this way?
you mean – adapter? 😉
Wouldn’t be surprised if the rumour source also would mean adapter, only attached in some quirky way where marketing department forbids everyone from using word “adapter”. lol
This
Or maybe, they can move the entire sensor when A-Mount lenses are detected.
Indeed, there are only three ways that I can see to support E & A mount lenses natively. One is to move the sensor, the second is to move the mount backwards and forwards (effectively two ways of achieving the same thing) and the third is to provide some form of optical correction by automatically inserting another element. All are difficult, expensive to achieve and will make the camera far larger than any NEX.
So no stabilisation or fast AF.
yep. As always.
While I’m sure it’ll be a nice camera, I’m waiting for something with better a better AF setup than the A99, not a worse one. 2015, maybe?
I’m very curious to see what they’re gonna do…maybe something a-la Ricoh GR?
Exactly.
Intruiging indeed. Personally, I’d rather see a clean E-mount solution since the A-mount requires some pretty big flange to sensor distance, killing any hopes for a small unobtrusive body. But sure, there are obvious benefits with a dual mount system too.
I strongly agree. And I don’t see why SONY can’t build two systems – A mirrorless E-mount and a mirrorless A-mount. The market for each is has very different use-cases desiring either a lightweight compact system or else as a platform for existing large A-mount lenses.
All Sony have to do is take the A99 and give us mirror flip up mode. It’s bloody well staring them in the face yet they can’t see it.
Frank….I have been screaming about the flip up mirror concept for years now. Its the best of both worlds and I cant understand why Sony wont do it.
Aflip up mirror would instantly kill the light loss debate and would stop the translucant mirror laughter by industry pros.
Personally I hoped A99 will have it and I was astonished seeing that it’s basically an A77 with big sensor.
My next hope is A78 (or however they’ll call it), but TBH: I’m ready for a negative surprise and staying with my A77 for a longer while. Sony is scaring away a lot of people from A-mount because of it’s stubbornness with having transculent mirror permanently down.
You overstate the impact on customer demand of Sony’s refusal to flip-up the mirror.
The reality is that it makes a negligable difference to image quality, and that has been the case since the A55/A580 days. The A99 competes very well with its traditionally designed competitors in terms of image quality, specifically the Nikon D600, which emphasises why a flip-up mode would be a waste of manufacturing costs. Don’t forget that the current implementation of the translucent mirror mechanism means that the mirror extends out of the lens mount when it is flipped. Any flip-up mechanism would have to deal with this hurdle.
Don’t forget we are dealing with a company that has just put a plastic lens mount on to one of its cameras to save costs. How willing do you think Sony will be to implement a flip-up mechanism at extra cost in order to satisfy the demands of the few?
There are 1001 reasons why Sony are not making headway in the DSLR market. Giving its customers the ability to flip-up the translucent mirror isn’t going to fix anything.
“The reality is that it makes a negligable difference to image quality,” – let’s not forget that actual image quality is meaningless when it comes to bashing competition and running reviews. And exactly due to reviews – and things like DxO Mark – Sony should have added mirror flip-up mode.
If Sony’s goal was a super high DxO score rather than a good camera, the resulting product would be markedly worse. Let us hope Sony doesn’t go down that route.
Seriously? You think Sony should add mirror flip-up just so that their cameras can benefit in reviews and DXOMark? Wow.
Go out and take some pictures and stop worrying about half a stop of ISO noise.
Personally (again), I really don’t see the point of a dedicated mirrorless A-mount camera, since it would be quite simple (and this also has been rumored) to make the pelicle mirror flippable in future SLT cameras.
You should spearhead the NEX Coallition of the Willing in favor of an E mount only NEX FF camera, especially since A mount users already have the a99! buy it man! dont wait for a FF NEX if your messiah is already here!!
Where is ours?!?!
I don’t have an A99. That said, I’m probably not going to buy a NEX-9, either. I want more camera, not less.
I quote to hybrid mount or to keep separate Alpha/Nex in different line.
Why is it leaked now, I wonder? Are we going to see the new AF module in action soon?
I might have leaked now because of NAB 2013 next month. This mount might appear on a new Sony NEX pro camcorder.
PLEASE!!!
We already knew that the NEX-9 will have a hybrid E/A-mount. Nothing new right?
A complicated mechanically extensible mount would explain a lot about why the camera is so expensive.
Not only mechanically extensible but also featuring a dual set of contacts (for both A-mount and E-mount lenses): quite complicated indeed.
Wrong. Not complicated nor expensive. Simple, actually. Fool.
Dual mount? Unnecessary and not asked for. Is that the reason the estimated price is so high? The E mount is all I want and need. Sony shouldn’t force the Alpha mount on buyers that are not interested in it.
Perhaps FF NEx won’t have many native lenses, hence help with A-mount lenses…
(I would rather have E-mount and wait a bit longer, enjoying my MF lenses)
Maybe it will only be compatible to a-mount, not to emount?
If it was made A-Mount only, then it would, in effect, be like an A99 with main sensor AF. It would also not allow for the support of any but a few of the vast array of third-party lenses that can be mounted on an NEX.
In short, it would be a mirrorless A-series camera, and not an NEX.
Who cares? It will be even more overpriced than A99 is. Instead of making cameras for nobody make cameras that will sell and grow your market share.
Hint make entry level simple FF NEX with 1500$ price, affordable lenses, additional viewfinder and LA-EA4 adapter. Later you can make NEX-9 for whatever you wish.
All you have to do is put FF sensor inside NEX-5/6/7.
APSC NEX line wasn’t started from NEX-7 and SLT wasn’s started from A99, why is that? Look how prices of Nikon A, and Canon EOS M limit their sells. Don’t make this mistake.
FF isn’t something exceptional in 2013, one can buy used FF or new 2K $ DSLR today.
If Nikon was able to sell D600 with YOUR sensor in full DSLR package and still make profit, then you could easily break this price range with simplicity of NEX design.
+1000
I agree, also wish for a A1x at one point, maybe with a new 24-70II crossing fingers
You’re overlooking something crucial. Economy of scale. Nikon cameras sell more, no matter what, because they have a Nikon badge, ceteris paribus.
So Sony has to calculate smaller quantities, which means economies of scale are lower too, thus cost price of a single product higher.
In terms of finished products, yes, but at the component level Sony has far greater economics of scale than even Canon has due to being a consumer electronics giant.
In theory I agree. How far that panned out in practise sofar is unclear, because from what I’ve read, Sony divisions have been operating so much independently, that for example ther own camera division wouldn’t be treated much differently from other customers (think Nikon etc.) buying parts, such as sensors from the semi conductors division, etc.
That’s one of the things Hirai is supposed to be changing.
Either way, it’s indeed a fator too, but to think that Sony should have no trouble undercutting competition while being a relatively small player still, without taking into account economies of scale (linked to brand name, loyalty, market penetration, camera networks, etc.), is a bit too simplistic as well.
Well, the LA-EA2 is not a “simple adapter” if you ask me. Perhaps it will just be a more stream lined and more integrated looking device called LA-EA4 😉
I sure do not hope it will be a madatory bundle with the camera, I would rather have a cheaper FF NEX and the option to buy the adapter separately.
LA-LEA4, if it includes the PDF and mirror would not be a simple adaptor. Two ways to go, have a back to which you can add a mount, E-mount, A-mount, M-mount, EF-mount etc. or just use the current E-mount plus adaptor route. Normal adaptors has the disadvantage of having more tolerance errors than a single mount.
What I would love to see is a auto focus adjustment on the Sony cameras. Place lens on mount, set to a focal length, for zooms, the camera would do an auto focus then scan the micro-focus adjustments until optimum focus was achieved. Repeat 3 or 4 times to get a nice average value. Having wide, mid and tele range on zooms would help in cases where the focus is shifted a bit by the zooming. Would require the user have a sturdy tripod and they would have to come up with a suitable standard target of some sort.
Sounds like a plan. That is one of the weaknesses of the LA-EA2 – it’s not a particularly ergonomic design. They could design new versions to fit the hand much better.
If they use an adapter I hope the Af lamp works as it does not work with the lea2
Hmmm….. If this means the flange to sensor distance will be the standard for a-mount then I wouldn’t buy it. For me the only reason a ff in a mini size camera makes sense is to allow use of various manufacturers lenses, if that option is gone and I wanted a a-mount ff I would get a a99.
What I am hopping for is Sony use the E-Mount for their fullframe and start building more full frame lenses. I want lenses to be pocketable or at least not that big. The purpose for mirrorless is for its small size not big size. I don’t mind NEX body to be bigger with in body stabilization as this means that lenses can be made smaller. When they come out with lenses, I hope they are good quality prime lenses or short zoom lenses with constant aperture. Personally, lenses and sensor are very important. Not just the sensor only. That’s just my personal opinion.
The dream of the universal mount…
Nex with this and that ,complicated adapters and so on. So whats wrong with FF A99 and a-lens .whats the point of buy e-lens when you are using a-lenses. Nex for compactivity 🙂 and alpha for more quality. Are you gonna by a nex just so you can buy an a-lens and use a adapter or do you buy a nex for it’ s size.
What is wrong A99: is it doesn’t sell well probably. And typical Sony strategy for such failed products is release something totally new with even higher price.
Instead of this they could try to fix obvious firmware issues and lower the price. Of course they won’t do that. All you can expect is A99n next year with fixed some bugs, and added new or “And now for something completely different” change in strategy for hybrid E/A camera.
the problem with Sony is that they released things after the other companies so than the other products have already gone down by the time the A99 came out so you had a cheaper D800 with a new even cheaper D600 and so on. I think that with the change in gameplan Sony will try to release things at the same time or so, Like the A78 at the same time as the 7dmrk II.
What’s wrong with the A99 is it’s price. It’s basically a A77 with a full frame sensor and the price should reflect that, there is absolutely no way that the A99 costs more than a D600 to manufacture.
There is more wrong with the A99 than just price but, on that point, I just saw this week that Sony is offering a $500 rebate. I must have missed that news flash. Now you are looking at a much better proposition.
Could you point us a link to this $500 ?
There’s plenty of things both right and wrong with the A99. Unfortunately, the stuff in the ‘wrong’ column (limited PDAF, flash delay) are unlikely to be fixed in a NEX-9+LA-EA4.
One more thing about price.
Pentax is rumored to release FF camera soon, probably 2-2.5K $ range. Pentax is known from good quality of cameras and great manual lenses support. For example stabilization for old manual lenses after entering focal length.
Samsung is rumored to release FF mirrorless this spring too. Price not known but I doubt 3-4K $ range like we have seen in Sony rumors.
Sony is rumored to release FF NEX-9 in about one year. Instead of looking at current market they should predict market in one year. D600 and 6D, Pentax and Samsung will be there for sometime with prices dropped even further. Who knows maybe there will be more mirrorless FF cameras for example from Fuji, Ricoh/Pentax, cheaper Leica, Canon (?).
4K $ FF mirrorless would work year, or two ago not next year. That is the same problem A99 is facing if it was released year before D600, 6D, 5d3 it could be winner. It is not that bad camera (not great also) but in current market no one is going to dump Canon or Nikon mount to get it. Plenty of E and A mount users will switch to Canon and Nikon due to your price policy.
Pentax FF is rumored for years.
A99 is great camera…
A99 is a great sensor, not great camera.
Well … sensor isn’t great either 🙂
It’s still the best FF sensor, along with the 36MP one.
Pentax doesn’t have any modern FF zooms. Their current quality lenses aren’t even priced competitively compared to Sony’s lenses, let alone possible new FF glass.
Besides that, Pentax has even more of a visibility problem than Sony (shelves, ads), which is translated in even worse sales.
Samsung sensors are still lagging Sony sensors by quite a margin, especially in low light. Don’t be fooled by overall DXOmark scores, look at the SNR (especially 1 to 10% grey) and DR graphs and keep in mind that this still includes hefty amounts of RAW NR. Add to that the worst (world not to be confused with lokal such as UK) market penetration of all these brands.
The biggest worry for Sony would be if Nikon or Canon would come out with a FF mirrorless camera before them. Which I would call unlikely.
+10!
+10! AK-77
And how long it took Sony to replace A700 and A900?
I Wonder what the price for the replacement for A77 will be . And the update for a77 , ain’t much. You will have to buy the A78 for the updated good stuff
It wouldn’t surprise me if they removed some features and the articulated LCD.
Sony have a habit of reducing the specification of new cameras to reduce the manufacturing costs.
They’ll improve the EVF and sensor but remove some important stuff. Then SAR will be full of people complaining, saying the A77 is better value than the dumbed down A78. 😀
It’s entirely possible that it’ll be more of a A65 successor than an A77 successor. It’ll depend on what Sony’s focus groups tell them. Hopefully there’ll at least be tethering this time.
Yay! But how about image stabilization!? A lenses don’t have it… so Nex FF body needs it! Who wants to work at 200mm FF without image stabilziation? Especially considering the money you pay for the equipment…
Good luck working with 200mm on NEX-size body 😀
You will have to buy new ones ,thats what sony wants you to do. You can not use your , 1 year old lens
NEX just got a little more interesting. Sure I still wouldn’t pay 4K for a FF, but if the option is available for A-mount compatibility, that could be interesting to a lot of people. Who knows, maybe Sony is working on a new form of IS that could change the industry. If they can do a hybrid mount on this camera, they could do it on future non- FF cameras. I say we play the waiting game and see what they have up their sleeve. We could be looking at the beginning of a fusion of mounts and a whole new range of cameras.
The one thing that always scarred me was the abandonment of A-mount users altogether. With cameras like this, it wouldn’t be an issue(although I prefer to have something to actually hold on to), and my Minolta glass could rest easy…
You can already mount A-mount lenses onto E-mount. You’ll get fast AF too.
Sure, with an adapter. It would be nice not to have to worry about that, and to have IS built in. Once those problems are addressed, there’s few things to stop prospective buyers.
Under all those conditions why not just buy an A99, which will have ergonomics that match the lenses (more buttons etc) faster AF, and probably cheaper?
This is more of a long term outlook. I agree, the obvious choice if you have the money for full frame would be the A99 at the moment.
The prospective buyers is such a case would be those who had a lot of A-mount lenses. I’m talking about down the road for if Sony decides to cease production on A-mount cameras, the tech could be used with all new cameras, FF or otherwise, to take advantage of your A-mount lenses. Thus not completely cutting off their SLT buyers. Although I really hope that’s not the plan, as I rather like the SLT line.
In other words… “if all else fails”
But can you ever get IS when you use A mount lenses on Nex?
there are a few sigma alpha lenses with ILIS.
I own a Contax IIa. It doesn’t have a “double mount,” it has a mount with a built-in focusing helicoid. Some of of the lenses have no internal focusing mechanism, so they rely on the camera’s…others are built normally. It’s nowhere near the type of solution this rumor seems to suggest.
However the Canon 7 rangefinder and the Pentax 6x7s both have double mounts, in both cases the outer mount is for unusually large & heavy lenses, the Canon 50/0.95 and the Pentax 67 superteles respectively.
The real issue with A mount compatibility is back focus distance. A mount is designed to be around 26mm further from the sensor, which means any solution which does not involve an adapter requires optical compensation.
No IBIS = NO WAY I will buy one.
I think it will be just NEX type camera with LA-EA4 adapter (maybe with mirror lock up) that fits perfectly and looks like part of camera. So it is not new technology just better execution of current LA-EA2 in FF package.
Or you can look at it from opposite view, SLT with mirror module that can be detached.
No, it’s not the same thing.
Since when SLTs are oversized (and: overpriced) compacts with interchangable lenses?
That would make sense! Currently people don’t buy Sony because there are not enough FF A Mount and APSC E Mount lenses available. Starting with something new like E Mount FF wouldn’t make it better.
The poeple who want FF E Mount today won’t buy the system because there will be not enough lenses available! Before I would buy a 4k FF Nex I would need to see high quality Primes (like 35/1,4; 50/1,4; 85/1,4) and some Zooms (like the SAL 1635, the SAL 2470z and the SAL 70200) but I don’t see Sony to release 6 FF E Mount lenses in the next 12 months! And that would only be the beginning, people would ask for more wide angle primes, further tele zooms etc.) No way that will happen soon so they need the A Mount FF lenses!
I still don’t see what makes people think that NEX FF lenses could be substantially smaller than A-Mount FF lenses. As long as Sony doesn’t change the laws of physics, those lenses will have to have a certain size. Sure, you save around 26 mm flange distance, but an A99 with a 70-200 is 275 mm long, while the FF NEX would be around 232 mm long with the same lens (based on the current NEX 7 measurements). That’s just 16 % less.
And apparently nobody want’s to give up autofocus, which allows for smaller lenses. Otherwise you could just get a Leica.
In the end I see a lot of people disappointed. So if you want to go small, buy your NEX in April, when the 7n is out.
Agree, even if they are 25 % smaller I wouln’t buy a new set of lenses, I would re-use my A Mount lenses. FF E Mount lenses won’t be cheap (looking at the coming Zeiss for A and E Mount), investing 4 k in the body and another 10k in lenses? I don’t think a lot of people are willing to do that!
Leica lenses are small not because of a lack of AF but because the lack of a mirror allows for different, non-retrofocal lens designs. The newer Leica lenses are bigger because digital sensors are less forgiving and need a retrofocal design even on mirrorless cameras. IF Sony is developing a new 24mpx sensor just for the NEX-9 as rumored and it is somehow compatible with non-retrofocal/symmetric lens designs that could very well usher in a new era of compact lens designs. It would turn that short flange distance into a huge advantage.
Not that I’m saying such FF lenses would be small but that they wouldn’t be much bigger (if at all) than the current APS-C lenses which are comparable to the Zeiss IKON Biogon lenses.
Sure but even if Sony can launch lenses like the 35 F2 from the RX1 (size & quality) how long will it realistically take them to have an acceptable number of those lenses? 2-3years at least! How many People will buy a 4 k Body if you only get 1-2 lenses for it? I don’t think enough for Sony to survive…
in physical terms size may not be that much different. However, for the subject the difference between a unobstrusive rangfinder glass might be very different to some monstrous SLR glass.
if not “simple adapter”, I’d imagine it as a more complex, native part of the camera, even covering the whole e-mount (sides included), maybe with some adaptive sensor movement back if possible for a shorter “adapter” width outside of the camera. It could also be additionally a matter of perspective – now we sell you an e-mount aps-c nex camera and you can get adapter if you want, but with nex-9 we’ll give you a small A-mount FX camera with all the usual stuff like A99 has (full focus, etc) in a slightly different nex-7 body, but you can remove an integral piece of it and transform it to a regular nex-7 like camera with an e-mount “hidden” inside.
The Full Frame NEX will simply come with the same LA-EA3 Adapter as the NEX-VG900, I guess, plus probably a firmware update. A translucent mirror version like the LA-EA2 might also be possible in case the NEX-9 sensor will not allow HybridAF. There’s not much to do for Sony here except improving comapratively simple technology they’re selling for years already.
Well that’s the most logical expectation, but this is the second time, as far as I remember, such fullframe a/e-mount “hybrid” camera with “not simple adapter” has been mentioned – just trying to speculate what else might be possible. Not that I care, I just want speed booster for Nikon when available for my Nex-5n and be done with it 😉
Though shall not defile the E mount when A-mount already has a native vessel for their lenses. Why, oh why, would Sony want to please two different markets by creating such monster?
Who, here, sign up for the NEXFFCW? say aye for a normal E mount camera and let them have an adapter.
Aye
Just a quick brainstorm which probably wouldn’t work if actually laid out. The regular mount might leave enough space so that a mirror could reflect the image to a sensor placed in a hand grip area. If it was generously sized, perhaps the image sensor stabilization mechanics could be included.
I dont care about A-mount but IBIS is a must. I will buy Nex-9 if it has got IBIS!
it will NOT have IBIS, there was a report a few days-weeks ago where it was explained that Nex will never have IBIS because of its small size.
Good to see some a-mount loving, but who’s the target market? Other than the 50/1.4 and 85/2.8, I can’t think of much current a-mount glass a I’d want to use on something that size of a nex 7…
Attaching the Alpha module should allow full Alpha menu. NEX module should allow full Booby menu.
Everybody happy. Even you Booby lovers.
What!? No whining about the flash capability of the NEX!
You, sir, are an idiot.
Great news, i wish to have one!!!
E-mount: 46.1mm, A-mount: 49.7mm throat diameter according to wiki. I don’t think the difference is enough to have the E-mount fully within the A-mount with the A-mount protruding to have the correct distance to the sensor. I am very curious about the solution Sony has come up with!
Your Wiki is a weak Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance
E- Mount is 18mm.
Sorry, I misread the ‘throat diameter’ part somehow. Sorry, my bad. Your Wiki is a reliable Wiki.
I do not want another 24mp camera.
I want 54mp. or better which could easily be achieved by scaling up the current 24mp c sensor and maintaining the same oixel density.
Better yet scale up to 81mp square.
The other issue sony needs to deal with is image stabilization in camera.
Sony lenses are not image stabilized and only with image stabilization will the a lenses be fully functional.
This camera is a good great concept don’t waste it on another mediocre camera.
Do this and sony will have a revolutionary camera that everyone will want.
Don’t waste do this and I will miss sony when they are gone.
For those who want a lower mp camera firmware can combine 4 adjacent pixels into one higher quality pixel.
Noise can be substantially reduced by eliminating the pixels that deviate from the group.
What in the word are your thinking of with a 54MP camera. Why 54? Why so high? You must be from another universe and magically travelled back in time. Who gives a F&*%$! Go away, just go away.
Wording is bad butI couldnt agree more.
Fudge. Not sure what you where thinking, but i give you credit for going low on my behalf!
54mp is a good number because it involves no new technology. Scale up the c sensor from the nex7n to ff and you have 54mp. Maintain the same specs. No new technology means lower development costs.
Secondly both 4k and 8k video formats have been adapted as standard. 4k means 7680 x 4320 pixels for our future television.
Thats 33mp our still cameras will have to exceed that or we will all be replacing them very very soon.
24mp is already obsolete but the average person doesn’t know it yet.
Many people like myself actually need much higher resolution than current cameras provide.
Many more people who don’t actually need it want it.
We all know people are more likely to buy what they want than what they need.
54mp will put sony back on the map and save it grom extinction.
Lastly there is a price to pay for a larger sensor, namely depth of field. Anything less than 54mp involves a step backwards. I would rather step forward without having to make that sacrifice.
All that being said sony can at the very least put the 36mp sensor they already have in.
24mp would be a huge mistake, one from which sony may not recover.
Why argue for features that no other fullframe digital camera has (54Mp), when what is missing is simply a compact fullframe digital?
Also a 54Mp camera is a studio camera. It also needs to be larger format because it’s inherently diffraction limited.
54MP full frame will hit its diffraction limit around f6.3-f7.2, hardly something that is going to limit its use as a studio camera.
Thats exactly why to argue for it.
No one has it and i need it.
Easy to use in the field snd high ees.
Unless sony does make something no one else has no one will buy it
@Carl Diffraction isn’t a hard limit. Assuming your number is correct, it’s probable the majority of the range from f2.8-f6.3 would have marginal/no observable advantage relative to a lower specified sensor, and at the cost of increased noise, lower DR, higher processor power, battery life etc.
Also a theoretical calculation ignores other parameters, such as the aliasing filter’s influence on the Airy disk.
@animalsbybarry MF already goes to 80Mp if that’s what you want.
The diffraction limit is the point in which the airy disc is larger than the pixel pitch. But as its an incremental thing, going slightly above that point has a fairly mild effect on the image. On the A900 I can happily shoot in the f11~13 range without worrying about resolution, but the diffraction limit is about f9.5. Obviously, if you need very deep depth of field and very high resolution things can get challenging, but the same is true with medium and large format cameras due to their narrower depth of field.
Also what I would cannot understand is why people like yourselves want to limit us to 24mp.
I remember not very long ago when 3mp was the current technology.
People were arguing that that was enough for anyone and we don’t need more.
I totally disagree with that attitude.
Please don’t try to discourage more megapixels for those of us that do need it. Otherwise when you do need it it won’t be there
Posting pictures of your cat on Facebook hardly equate to a need for higher MP. I’m willing to bet you don’t print anything larger than a cheap poster of your trip to the Grand Canyon which is thumb tacked up in your crappy little work cubicle. The opinions your coworkers have been lauding your way don’t count, Dork.
One
Nothing I you do is smaller than 36 inches and a lot is up to 72 inches
Two
I have never even looked at facebook
Three
Every single comment you have made is negative and trashing someone. How about sharing with us what you do like or what you would like to see in a camera.
what kind of attitude is that?
Your serious?
Maybe it’s a Helix inside the Body moving the mount away from the Sensor when an A-Mount Lens Is Attached. The Early bronicas had an highly interesting Mount, too (S2 S2A EC & EC TL). The Lenses had no Focussinghelix, the helix was in fact a septate part with one bayonet mounting the lens and mounted into the body by another bayonet. What was really cool with this mount, too was that it has a thread inside the helix that would hold different lengths of macro tubes that had a bayonet on one end and a thread on the other working like some older screw mount lenses.
If sony is going to make a camera with native A mount compatibility (what this rumor says they are doing) then it will have to either have the A mount flange to sensor distance or use internal fixed optics in the body. It has nothing to do with stabilization or no stabilization. And if it’s fixed optics then that goes right where the translucent AF mirror is in the SLT. Putting AF on the sensor allows that.
Of course, as they did with the name DSLR they could just do a short flange to sensor distance such as the E mount and name that A mount. An “A mount” that would be incompatible with current A mount lenses without an adapter. Not hard to imagine them doing that. Sony is good at twisting names to suit their current purpose.
A bit like Walt twisting definitions and arguments to suit his agenda.
Collapsible mount. Make it happen Sony!
This makes no sense. The A lenses require a different flange distance. The only way to have A lenses on an E-mount is via an adapter, much like the current Leica M uses Leica R lenses. So my guess is that it’ll use A mount lenses just the same way any E-mount camera does.
collapsible adapter
It’ll be bulky and not sturdy enough for Pro purposes. Seems very unlikely
Back it up with empirical evidence, DORK!
Sony has only made new lenses in dribs and drabs over YEARS. Look at how long it has taken Sony to deliver a set of E-mount lenses. If we waited for Sony to make a set of FF E-mount lenses, we could expect a few lenses by 2020 at their pace. So, it’s A-mount and big azz lenses for us. Tell Sony to update the 25 year-old FF 35mm F/2.
and while you’re at it, tell them to update all of “their” 25 year old lenses.
I am willing to sign my name up for any ” Update Sony Lens” petition. Have em’ put proper motors into the expensive ZA line, new coatings for the A mount lenses, change the optical formula of the E-mount macro … I could go on and on.
There’s actually a pretty good selection of medium telephotos currently. It’s the wide and normal range that makes me a sad panda.
Of course, even if Sony has the wherewithal to update them, it doesn’t mean I’m necessarily going to want the updates. I found the 24/2 to be staggeringly uninteresting, especially at the price Sony wants for it.
I bought one of those yesterday. my wallet is upset is badly upset!
Not a “simple adapter” probably means a complex adapter. Good news anyway!
it will not be with a simple adapter, it will be with a complicated adapter
Mr. Obvious has just entered the room. Good thing none of you work for Sony. Dang.
What’s the point no IBIS = not interested
A mount is far more interesting, or at least it could be if they put some small effort into it.
All this discussion must have Leica squirming -can you imagine ANY camera company introducing a “new” digital camera for $6 grand that uses 1940’s rangefinder mechanics at the eye level view finder as does the new “M”!
Leica doesn’t give a S#!$ about Sony. The only ones purchasing Leicas are filthy rich bastards about 4 years behind the current CMOS tech. Really. I am so tire of being the voice of reason. Is anyone out there listening?
You’re the voice of reason? Help us all.
Yeah, kind of sad, eh? 🙂
A compact camera with not compact lens…
You’re new to NEX, aren’t you. 😀
😀
…but while waiting for the compact lenses there will be a lot of fun (once again) with old manual glas plus focus peaking, YEAH!
is this an a mount ?
If Sony was Apple they go all in with Nex5, Nex7 and Nex9FF and one or two point-and-shoot! Many lenses and addon. Forget A-series and A-mount! Focus on what you can do with profit, volume and quality and skip the rest!
Sonys way is everything at the same time 🙁
I think they do quite some decent money with their A-Mount SLT’s ,too. And in fact they kind of went all in when they decided to go for SLT leaving SLR behind.
Apple may be good at what they are doing but the only way this is working is because of their image of being a lifestyle product. (Non of the stuff they were hyped for hasn’t existed before, they just were able to sell some technology that was mainly b2b in a b2c revenue model.
Reality is CSC sales have tanked (see Thom Hogan) so Sony are going to get egg on their faces IMO unless they turn things around and start to work A mount much harder.
It’s all about saving a few pennies with Sony, small body less materials quicker to make less on body controls. Thing is they forget about if people want to buy it.
Fuji X is far more interesting than NEX ever will be FF or not
“(see Thom Hogan)”
LOL
Hom Thogan? Really? OMG, you are a complete fool. Stop looking at shillers for cam manufacturers and start thinking of the end product… a F%&#%&^ photograph. You will come around eventually, FOOL!
Yeah big fool you can see major decline in CSC sales.
Who’s the fool? Bubble burst even Samsung are outselling NEX in the UK (now that is scary)
Where’s that source for the “major decline” (and don’t quote single store hot lists, sine there’s nothing to deduct from that in this context)?
The UK has always been an odd Samsung market, local and nothing interesting on a global scale really.
A) his “statistics” do not subscribe your summarization
B) his “statistics” lack details (which markets?) and the mentioning of a source
Until I see it for real, I call this rumor BS. Since day 1 that the hybrid mount solution was brought into question here, There are so many ways this kind of mount is not practical at all. More moving pieces, complex, higher price than a simple mount adapter and imagine if the hybrid mount fails? Different diameters, different registration distances. To me, this hybrid mount is just a fancy idea by people not from Sony that wanted A and E mount in a single camera. Not even top brand professional products have this kind of solution (PL mount and A mount) and we expect this to make it to a NEX-series camera…riiight.
Here’s the elephant in the room… Sony wanted to build that adapter that you mentioned into a camera body. Eat S$^%.
But then, it will be a big camera right?
Good question… not large like an adapter, more along the lines of a double-depth a mount.
That would be brilliant! Just hope that it doesn’t cost too much …
most A-mount lenses will be pointless to use on NEX-9 without IBIS
I don’t own any A mount lenses, and have no intention of ever buying any A-mount lenses. So this dual-mount concept just represents added cost for me, and I suspect for the vast majority of photographers.
No there is no dual mount because most of us just use A mount and couldn’t care less about E mount.
IBIS makes it worthwhile, no IBIS = poinless
Sony won’t be able to sell enough E mount lenses to make it profitable long term. that’s why Canikon won’t dump their mounts. Sony are just the loser mostly because they’re not making any effort that’s why they have a pathetic 6% market share
IBIS sucks. Lens stabilazation is far superior. Cheap lenses are awesome, till you get a real cam.
Maybe for you. Personally, I’d rather not decollimate my lens for the sake of maybe one stop of exposure leyway, but that’s just me.
What Carl said. Plus, I like *all* my primes stabilized. Something most people shooting lens stabilized systems will never have.
What you also should think about is that the lenses in a Optically stabilized Lens can’t always be perfectly centered as the way it works is by a shifting optical element. However the better elements are centered in a lens the better its performance will be. In my opinion Sensorsabilisation is making more sense the Lens Stabilisation and it would be great if the Nex-9 would have it even if that would mean that it is a few mm thicker.
What everyone said above is basically correct. No doubt about it. However, “moving” the sensor vs. vibrating the sensor is a different story. You’ll see sensor based stabilization on low end cameras for a reason. I wouldn’t want it on my higher end camera for some very important reasons… namely, long term accuracy and reliability.
The IBIS on my A900 has never missed a beat. If only I could say the same about the scroll wheels.
I’m past 100k clicks and have yet to see my IBIS deteriorate. Still does what it used to and needs to do.
I’m puttinh another chip on my “hybrid camera” bet. It will be a smaller E-mount camera that you can put in a bigger A-mount “housing” (hopefully with bigger grip).
Maybe the camera will need a mounting plate for both E and A mount lens. If it slides in from the bottom it would not have to stick out from the front of the camera.
Both the A and E mount lenses have drawbacks for use in a FF mirrorless camera. The A mount would make the camera deeper than necessary. The E mount may work OK with some lenses but is not really large enough in diameter for all FF lenses. It may work with many lenses but I suspect with telephotos the corners will show some vignetting due to E mount getting in the way.
An E to A adapter will not be able to make the E mount any wider. Using an adapter for either mount would allow the full image circle of all A mount lenses to be used and would be less of a kludge than an adapter. If the E mount plate was used the camera could still be thin.
Hello $3500 camera.
Only way it could be fully compatible would be for it to be A-mount. No adabters, no tricks. Plain A-mount. That could be something.
If it was A-mount only, it could not be used with other lenses with adapters. For me, the whole point of the NEX line is that the camera works with all the lenses, bellows, etc that I already own.
And an A mount camera would end up being as big as a DSLR.
Then it becomes another FF Alpha camera. Not a NEX-series.
IMHO it would be better to use the E-Mount as a ultimate mount for big (SLT) and small (NEX) cameras, as soon the OS-PDAF is as fast as the SLT-PDAF.
The bigger (SLT-like) workhorses could get rid of the translucent mirror and be overall lighter and the smaller NEX could profit of the variety of lenses which would be released for the “only” Sony mount!
There would be no differentiation in lenses, except for FF and APS-C.
Third-party lens makers like Sigma would reach the whole Sony customer world with a E-Mount lens!
Sony made already one step in this direction with using FF E-Mount for their video-camera lineup. I would guess as soon the on-sensor PDAF works like a charm in video, Sony will at least have a cheap and effective way to introduce lenses and equipment (new hotshoe) over all existing photo and video products!
I forgot, that losing the SLT mirror would also result in a 30% light win or how DxOMark would say it: A99 1555 ISO vs RX1 2534 ISO…
…or 1556, just a moment was it 1559 ;-\
I have used A99 about 4 months and I can get perfect photos with ISO 3201, oh nou was it 3199 or 3203. This ISO spoke is non sens! A99 and similar cameras, like D600, D800, 5dIII etc. are too good for many of us. Cameras of past were far worse, try to get it!
ISO range matters in a multitude of reasons. two that I can currently think of:
1) Sometimes you have to get more light out of the sensor, without noise and cannot use a flash for whatever reason. While 99% of the time i’d use a bounce or diffuse flash, sometimes you just hit that moment where it doesn’t make sense. Like a weird angle, that would cause too much light up close and not enough in the depth. I’ve been there quite a few times.
2) Higher low noise ISO tolerance usually directly translates into a better dynamic range at higher ISO. This means that your highlights and shadows have better chance of not getting washed out.
And now you’re running into an issue of IBIS or OIS. E-Mount lenses are generally OIS, because NEX line does not support IBIS. Since the lens has OIS, it is heavier and more expensive. Now, all brands are expensive. I know that lots of people feel that Sony is more expensive, but what they don’t do is
1) Look at comparable lenses across entire line as well as lens image quality within the class
2) Don’t look at exactly same complaints from Canikon users on their respective boards.
So while i can see the advantage of the same mount across entire line, it has its drawbacks. A-Mount supports IBIS, which means that absolutely any sony, or 3rd party lens is stabilized, when needed.
It would be like a wet dream if Sony could implement IBIS on FF-E-Mount NEX Cameras or even APS-C E-Mount… But I guess it would be no problem to implement it on a big SLR alike camera with E-Mount or would it?
Using stabilization on FF legacy glass would be really like a wet dream!
It shouldn’t be a problem on APS-C if a throat diameter allows it, otherwise the image has to be cropped. But E-Mount lenses will not have 2 alternatives, 1 with OIS, the other without. So the price point will always be higher for lenses with OIS.
My point is that if you need as an example, Sony 18-55 without OIS, because your camera already has it built in, you’re out of luck and have to pay extra for a feature you wouldn’t use.
Correction, it shouldn’t be a problem on APS-C, and shouldn’t be a problem on FF if a throat diameter allows it, otherwise FF DSLR has to crop the image to allow IBIS.
That’s great news:
– as most of the prime lenses do exist for the a- and not the e-mount
– as on the long time mirrorless cameras will have an advantage (aperutre, cleaning, etc.) over SLTs, as soon as the autofocus is good enough
– as FF mirrorless not necessary needs to be small – the Nex9 might be a small camera – but supporting A-mount leaves the door open for a FF-mirrorless in the format of the A99 – with battery grip, enough buttons to do everything immediately, and being capable to hold my 70-200/2.8 (which is a lens that really requires a bigger body)
I do like me NEX6 and my A77 – and it’s good to know the the A-mount an my lenses have some future…
It is by wanting to sit on two chairs at the same time that you may have pain in the ass…
Either Sony cam make and support fully the E FF mount
Either they have to Forget it…
Noway the camera Will have another Solution than an adapter… perhaps more integrated… More inline with the design… but still an adapter…
Wait… which roadmap are we on now? Is this NEX 9 going to be the “High End Alpha” we were promised back in 2010?
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr-new-sony-highend-alpha-camera/
There was already a rumor for a hybrid back in 2011 alongside the 2 rumored A mount SLT cameras.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-third-mysterious-sony-ff-camera-will-be-something-completely-new-hybrid-mount/
Swear I’m not buying another 24mp Sony.
Better have a pixel party, and invite 50% to 100% more friends.
And what are you going to do with such a high MP camera, when no lens is capable of resolving such resolution? Just check DXO Mark lens tests.
If the pixels are there the lenses will come.
8k video standard has been aproved.
24 mp wont even fill your next tv screen
MORE PIXEL POWER !!!
36MP cameras have been out for a while. I don’t see lenses improving much. At least not at the rate of sensors.
f/5.6 and you’re there… on any G or ZA.
They do, just look at how 16MP APS-C sensors improved over 10 to 12MP APS-C sensors (for example at Photozone tests). And the former is about the same pixeldensity as a 36MP FF sensor. Thus plenty to gain for FF sensors.
The Nikon V1 outresolves any APS-C or FF body in the center with the same lens due to the higher pixeldensity (rather than the cropfactor as is often suggested…). And that’s the equivalent of 31MP on APS-C and 74MP on FF.
Im totolly with you see my earlier comments.
If I you agree start a chant in every sar comment board
MORE PIXEL POWER !!!
And then what? Best lenses are topping out at just under 20mp… So you get a high MP camera, that can resolve just under 20mp, or close to 10-15 with most others. How awesome!!!
Probably not much help for a Sony shooter, but the solution to that is to simply make better lenses.
This is not supported by evidence sofar. The 36MP D800 clearly outresolves all other (20-24MP)FF cameras with a variety of lenses as tested by R. Cicala from Lensrentals, 85mm primes by Dpreview and a Sigma macro by Imaging Resource.
Nonsense Stan your math is wrong.
24mp c
54mp ff
and 81mp square
All share the same pixel density of about 240 pixels per mm.
Lense resolution is measured in line pairs per mm.
120 line pairs per mm equals the pixel density of 240.
That being said you actually want to exceed that in order to get a good high contrast image.
A resolution of 180 to 240 will give a fine image at any of the sensor resolutions I mentioned.
Many of todays high quality primes exceed that resolution.
There is no reason not to have a high res camera.
There are many choices for those of you who are satisfied with low res.
For those of us who need an easy to use high res camera there is nothing out there.
Give us one !
I think that it will have IS only for A mount only because IS for E mount with a full frame sensor won’t allow for light to get to the far corners in movement. The dual mount will come out of the body as well as move the sensor back to reduce protruding mount problem and allow for a smaller size.
Of course it will not be a “simple adapter”.
It will be a “very complex adapter” (marketing speech to justify the price) that you have to attach to each lens you own and costs $600 per piece.
Sony: the original SLR form-factor was NOT arbitrary. It has stood the test of time, been highly refined, and is proven.
One of your camera lines should START with the SLR form-factor, and figure out what can be efficiently contained in that case.
If your answer is that the A99 currently fills this niche, you are mistaken. You could put mirror flip-up and possibly a square sensor in that form factor, along with the fastest cards available.
There should be 3 kinds of cameras in an efficient line-up, IMHO:
1) pocketable, inexpensive fixed-lens P&S that are replaceable rather than repairable (Powershot)
2) semi-pocketable, pricier, and repairable interchangeable-lens P&S for light carrying and casual use (NEX)
3) ergonomic mid-to-expensive repairable and supported with accessories interchangeable-lens for serious carrying & studio work (Alpha)
Inefficient, but fun, additions would be high-end fixed or interchangeable lens P&S like the RX1, and MF equipment.
There you have it: low, medium, and high, all good for different things, with some overlap.
The point is that the SLR form-factor should IMHO be a STARTING-POINT for the design of class (3) above.
lol, sorry–“Cybershot”, not “Powershot”!
The reason I chose those 3 was because a significant range of products can be economically implemented on each of the 3 basic platforms, as has been proven historically.
Wait – e-mount don’t work for FF , and only a moron would use some sort of APS crop on an FF sensor .
A-mount lenses are too big to work well with a Nex sized body for everyday use, and an adapter would be even more silly , if that’d be the only way to shoot a Nex in FF mode .
Hence, an entirely new line of lenses would be required for an FF Nex, or RXx, or whatever .
Just when you think M43 has painted itsself into a corner . 😉
Full frame E mount lenses :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Mount+Type_Sony+E-Mount&ci=1884&N=4292338124+4190025432
Using the digital mount to detect the lens and define the crop factor is not a challenge for Sony Engineer, the camera able to use APSC lens does not means that it will resolve the terrible vignetting problem and CA. I still doubt if they based on current sensor technique, they could get both problem solved. Looks like Fuji may the real company the make it happen.
Maybe this is Sony’s idea of how to merge NEX+alpha in one system (it is about time though)
Maybe they can make mirrorless+IBIS.
Maybe they can ask $4000 for another 24MP sensor.
Maybe nobody will pay that price.
Resolution 48MP, ISO 25-25000, HDR in raw, MAYBE!
I don’t care if the body will transform and make any lens ever made made mount without an adaptor… I’m not going to buy a Nex… Especially not at the price they want for the little bit of camera you get (Theres more to a camera than image quality)…
Produce the FF Alpha you are capable of building and I will buy one, or 2….
Put a high res sensor on it
Eliminate the mirror and aa fliter
And so will i.
MORE PIXEL POWER!!!
like playing games on it ? lol
It seems like this thing is mutating into a slightly smaller, more rectangular A99 without the trans mirror. If that is the case I don’t think many people will be interested in it either. If it is native A mount the flange focal distance will have to be the standard 44.5mm, instead of the E mount 18mm, which will seriously bulk up the body. The only other option to increasing FFD would be to insert corrective optics between the sensor and the lens flange, and nobody wants that. People could just use the Metabones speed booster on the existing APS-C NEX lineup instead. What I don’t understand is that if the native E mount is incapable of supporting full frame optics, then why does the VG900 full frame camcorder have an E mount?
It is capable of full frame, it just needs a tight ray angle. For example, the old Exakta mount had a 38mm throat compared to E-mount’s 46.1mm, so it’s actually of fairly modest design, but not all lenses (especially not symmetrical rangefinder ones) have a suitable ray angle.
A-mount look larger than e-mount, it will makes NEX body a bit larger. I wish they can put FF sensor inside a body like the 5N. Now that’s something.
Why? When you attach a large FF lens to it any size advantage is thrown out the window, might as well get the ergonomic benefit of a slightly larger body with more comfortable grip, controls, etc.
There’s lots of small fullframe lenses around. Leica, Voigtlander, Zeiss, Contax G etc. Most of them are smaller than the crop E-Mount SEL lenses. They lack AF, but are great for landscape and street when shooting hyperfocal and zone, and peaking works well for stuff like portraits.
Maybe, but that will be just another Leica, with bigger-than-Leica lenses.
I think It will be great if the mount is just fit alike canon’s EF-S mount and EF mount…. But if the body size and weight was greater due to the multi-mount , I think leave it E-mount plus a a mount adaptor is better…… if the body weight and size are large , then i think i no need to bought the NEX-9 anymore and go for A99 instead…
Finally NEX will get some lenses. 🙂
it makes no sense
would be much more easier and practical to use an adapter А to E with a screw driver
As I see it, the most reasonable solution is to make an intercajgable “Front Plate” module that will have not only the byonet mount but also all the electro-mechanical mechanism needed for full utilization of either E or A lens.
Sony ofcource can go one step further and also make a modular sensor housing so we will be able to place different sensors suitable for the application (like in the old film days…). I can see at least 3 popular modular sensor options – “B&W High-DR 32MPx”, “Hig-Res Studio 45Mpx, “Lo-Res High-ISO & Action 21MPx”
I acn dream on and on…
The mount makes sense to Sony, but sorry the FF Nex should be A mount only so you can have IBIS, no IBIS is a deal breaker for many people and so Sony are already loosing customers by sticking with the E mount for FF.
Whithout IBIS the FF NEX-9 is useless. And this is even before considering the roumored 4K$ price…
I used to have a D7k with 3 non-vr lenses. I wouldn’t call them useless. VR/IS is cool, but not a must-have-feature for me. Having said that, I would never could afford a USD4k camera. Sad.
What’s the use?
If they offer a body which could work both as OVF-DSLR and FF mirrorless, that will sell like hotcakes.
But this… is a minute improvement.
it’s got to be an advanced adapter of some kind. they need to deal with flange distance and unless they want to sacrifice a-mount autofocus performance altogether, they need that flange distance for autofocus tech for the alpha glass. I don’t believe on sensor pdaf is good enough, it will take years to catch up with classic pdaf. I believe the adapter will feel very integrated with the camera, which makes them say it’s not merely an adapter, but it needs to be detachable, or the whole point of going portable with dedicated ff e-mount lenses is lost.I think it’s an adapter alright, and that’s good news. I still worry about autofocus performance though.
Yippy…yes, yes, yes! Way to go Sony!!! I love it.
That’s cool as long as it has native FF E-mount lenses also. Otherwise it’s a waste of space- what would be the point of a nice small body, when it’s attached to huge, heavy, A-mount lenses? If that’s the case, you may as well stick to your Alpha DSLR. NEX-FF with great, small, compact, lightweight E-mount glass would be amazing and worth the money!
Full frame, mirror-less, Alpha-99 body, sensor can move forward and backward (corresponding to E-mount and A mount), in-body 6 axis anti-shake, that means E-mount lens without OSS can have anti-shake, as well as Leica, Zeiss manual lenses can also have image produced by a full frame anti-shake sensor !
Even better, sensor that can be tilted and shifted?
No STL mirror robbing the light .Its time to give us the 36MP Sensor thy made for Nikon .In the NEX FF
No IBIS would be a deal breaker for me as well. I would have bought the RX1 had it have had some sort of IS. Without IBIS my Zeiss and other lenses would be useless unless tripod mounted. I can’t understand what Sony is thinking about having championed IBIS for so many years and now leaves its user base hanging in the air.
With IS giving four stops and upwards its omission wastes all the high ISO development that Sony has put into its sensors. An ISO 6400 sensor with four stops of IS is equivalent to an ISO 400 sensor without IS.