Yesterdays post about the future FF-NEX set a new record with 475 comments (Click here to read them all). I am sure Sony managers read them all and it’s also clear that the high price of the FF-NEX may be a hurdle for the final success of the system. From the over 6.000 voters only 13% said they would buy the NEX-FF. And only 13% said they may or may not buy it.
So let’s imagine another solution. A cheap very basic and simple FF-NEX, with no viewfinder, no fancy tech but with a top sensor and decent AF speed. If Sony would manage it to keep costs low and sell the camera for $2500 (body only)….
[poll id=”142″]
This is my last poll about the NEX-FF. After that I will ask for feedback from my sources to hear what they think. Let’s go back and post some new NEX-7n rumors soon 🙂
P.S.: Reminder of what we know about the NEX-FF:
– 24 Megapixel FF sensor (there is a second prototype with 32 Megapixel sensor)
– Similar NEX-7 form factor
– More expensive than the current RX1
– Release in 2014
– Three new FF Zeiss lenses coming in June 2014 along the first FF NEX
Specs of the Zeiss lenses are unknown but Zeiss has a great history of FF lenses made for the “Full Frame” ZM analog camera:
[shoplink 10875 ebay]Distagon T* 2,8/15 ZM (Click here to see price on eBay)[/shoplink].
[shoplink 9803 ebay]Distagon T* 4/18 ZM (Click here to see price on eBay)[/shoplink].
[shoplink 9804 ebay]Biogon T* 2,8/21 ZM (Click here to see price on eBay)[/shoplink].
[shoplink 9804 ebay]C Biogon T* 4,5/21 ZM (Click here to see price on eBay)[/shoplink].
[shoplink 9805 ebay]Biogon T* 2,8/25 ZM (Click here to see price on eBay)[/shoplink].
[shoplink 9806 ebay]Biogon T* 2,8/28 ZM (Click here to see price on eBay)[/shoplink].
[shoplink 9808 ebay]Biogon T* 2/35 ZM (Click here to see price on eBay)[/shoplink].
[shoplink 9808 ebay]C Biogon T* 2,8/35 ZM (Click here to see price on eBay)[/shoplink].
[shoplink 9809 ebay]C Sonnar T* 1,5/50 ZM (Click here to see price on eBay)[/shoplink].
[shoplink 9809 ebay]Planar T* 2/50 ZM (Click here to see price on eBay)[/shoplink].
[shoplink 9810 ebay]Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM (Click here to see price on eBay)[/shoplink].
[shoplink 9810 ebay]Tele-Tessar T* 4/85 ZM (Click here to see price on eBay)[/shoplink].
369 Responses
and while we are at it… the need for a cheap A mount camera lower than the a99.
Full Frame that is and no I am not complaining about the price! I just think there needs to be a value model like the Nikon D600 and Canon 6D!
+1
+2
Hell, even I would buy this one… and I just got the a77 and have a whife that’s considering divorce cuz I overspend on my Sony camera stuff….
We’ve got stop making issues about the price of the high end Sonys. The a99 was NOT overpriced. The full-frame NEX will NOT be overpriced. Complaining about a price we don’t really know, for a camera we don’t know much about about, is silly.
The full frame NEX should be about FEATURES and USABILITY and LENSES. If price is an issue for you, you have APS-C NEX options that are VERY reasonable.
Full Frame is going to be expensive. But not as expensive as full frame cameras were just a few years ago. STOP WHINING ABOUT PRICES FOR THE HIGHEST END PRODUCTS! PLEASE!
ps When 13% say they’d buy it…..that’s about 5x as many as who really will. A full frame NEX is a NICHE camera. It’s NOT a mainstream product. Expecting more than 13% to say they’d buy is ridiculous.
Never going to happen.
We live in a time when people want everything for free, so of-course they will always complain about price. Maybe Obama will distribute free cameras to poor photographers, or set up a program to pay our credit card bill when we buy a new camera.
The complaining and whining will never stop, that’s what it’s all about.
Enough to show off.
I was not complaining about the price but I do believe there is a need for a cheaper full frame a mount model. Nikon and Canon have one. Why not Sony?
What professional would buy into a $2500+ FF camera system with no native (e-mount) FF lenses? There are already excellent FF cameras from Canon and Nikon that have excellent systems (lenses, flash, etc) and a real service network. The Laredo “service” center is a joke. A lot of people are fixated on the price but as a owner of NEX (6 & 7) and Alpha (A77) cameras, NEX is not at a grade to command a $2500 pricepoint for what is basically an incomplete camera system. No weather sealing at that price point? What a joke.
Nobody is whining, we are just pointing out that you can get a full frame from Nikon with a view finder, with a moving mirror mechanism, with fast AF, with a billion available lenses, MUCH CHEAPER.
Why is something so simple and basic from Sony MORE EXPENSIVE?
It isn’t the cost of the camera that makes it so expensive it is the fact that they are either loading in a lot of R&D, assuming very few units are sold so fixed costs are spread over only a few cameras, or both.
Someone needs to explain to them that all the R&D already spent is gone and a sunk cost, so no need to build it all in to the camera, and if they sell it cheap enough they will sell tons and can spread that fixed cost over a million units.
This camera should cost less to make than a Nikon D600 because it leaves out the expensive and complicated mirror mechanism, so price it based on actual cost not dreams.
…no viewfinder…$2500….are they crazy?!?!…if they want someone buy the camera they have to sell it for $1900 with viewfinder…Sony=crazy people…
It’s me making the speculation and not Sony.
The original Leica is unofficially and affectionately known as the Barnack after its inventor. The fullframe NEX 9 if ever materializes from SONY will be immortalized as the Andrea 😉
Hey Andrea, love your site, although I have one complaint. I can’t stop check it, it’s become an addiction, I should be processing images or preparing for tomorrow’s shoot.
Keep up the good work, it’s good to see that there are lots of passionate photographers out there.
Admin, as Hendrick explained in comments in the previous post…the question is not a simple price vs product, its a price vs customer base.
How many amateurs, enthusiasts, hobbyist buy Nikon D800s, D4s or Canon 1Ds or 5D3s? Not many compared to the amount of professionals.
So, How many professionals could be interested in a FF NEX well equipped for $3000? Many. How many enthusiasts? Not many.
Admin, please, marketing in Sony should not ask such a broad question to a broad spectrum of users. Another poster noted here too that many complaining about the price are not even owners of NEX 7s or even NEX 6s so they are already not paying much for what they own.
Yet another comparison is to think that the cut down cost, budget built Nikon D600 and Canon 6D are examples of ‘how FF should cost these days’, but their build and their features base is not comparable to their more expensive peers either (has anyone seen how badly the focusing system of the old 5D’s was? well, thats on the 6D)
The answers coming out from here would only contribute to developing a product that, in order to cost what the masses want, be underwhelming because ‘costs need to kept low’.
Just pull the trigger, Sony. Develop the best you can develop and many will still buy it. Lets just remember that there is a whole complete market looking at Sony (especially after the RX1 now) and seeing whats coming next. There is a great chunk of that market that doesnt some to SAR because they either do not have the time or interest, or simply dont know about it. If you grab a group of professionals, round them up and ask the question of a FF NEX at $3500 with great features, IQ and video quality, I bet you will get a round of applause.
I really, really hope you guys listen. This is not just about creating any camera…this is about creating a landmark camera and it better be a solid one.
Admin, the math is much more simple.
Take a NEX-6 body. How much is the total retail price? $800-$850? That includes price of distribution (from the factory, to another country, wholesalers, retailers…) Let’s say that the price to manufacture the camera is $350. That includes ALL the components, from the body to the electronics, processor, LCD screen, EVF, software, etc… So how much do you think the sensor itself costs? $60 being generous? Ok, now let’s assume the worst case, that the FF sensor costs 4 times more than the APS-C one. So $240. That’s $180 more.
So the price of a NEX-6 clone where you just swap the APS-C sensor for a FF sensor, should cost $180 more than the NEX-6.
How on earth did you come to a $2500 camera without EVF and super simple???????????????????????
When you look at yesterdays comments you can see the admin did a lot of work going through all the spam and approving comments as there is loads of duplicates. I find if you login the comment system works better.
This comment went in the wrong place was suppose to be a reply to the admin comment below.
WE WANT VIEWFINDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We don’t. And what?
no viewfinder = no purchase
+1. If it’d be really pocketable – lack of the VF would make sense. But NEXes aren’t pocketable so they should have VF.
as long as video is good and it is fully featured, above 3000 is not unacceptable. The last thing we need is a mediocre system that you still have to pay 2500 for
One would hope for a clean non-compressed HDMI output too…. but considering it is a Sony which likes to force people that want video to buy the camcorder and not the cameras, that isn’t a very likely thing… You can’t even bet non-compressed HDMI on a Nex 7 and its not even full frame.
I voted yes, but I see no reason for NEX to be so expensive. It has nothing that justify such a high price. It’s fair price should be about no more than $2000 (and this is overly expensive too).
Only those 2 to vote!!! I’m not voting this time.
Admin if you had some more rumors inside your mailbox, show it to us to have more info to know if this price is justified.
above 3000 is not unacceptable ?????….yes and put a zeiss lens in front of it for $1500 and you have a circa $5000 camera !!!!!
how many people around the world could/would buy for that price a sony branded camera???? It’s not canon/nikon….wake up!
You would pay more for the same camera if it was branded as Canon or Nikon, instead of what it can actually do? LOL, wake up.
Yes, because Canon and Nikon have professional grade camera systems, not just a single FF camera.
Dear admin,
This site appears to be loosing credibility. Not only does the site appear to drift of into its own fantasies and overemphasizing its connection with and importance to Sony, but you now also appear to be censoring serious and well founded inputs not favorable to the site or to Sony. I wish this wasn’t so and welcome your comment.
Bengt.
First: With all the respect, not a single comment has been censored. Please prove me wrong!
Second: “overemphasizing” connection. I am not saying I have connections to Sony directly. But connection to sources that share what Sony is doing right now.
Thirds: “own fantasies”. We talk about rumors and we love to discuss over what could or shoudl come as next. My opinions are only here to start a discussion.
The comments aren’t censored, it sometimes takes several times to post a comment. It’s been happening for a while now.
Copy your comment before hitting submit so you don’t have to retype it!
Right Frank. Some comments get into moderations. THis happens because ther eis an antispam filter that puts into moderations:
1) Comments coming from suspect IP addresses
2) Comments containing links (to avoid links to unapproripate websites like porn)
3) Comments containing badwords.
Hope it’s clear now!
bahhh SAR is a fanboy site like sonyplaystationrumorsandspecs!
I can confirm that not all comments show up.
Andrea – it doesn’t work like you say.
Sometimes I post stuff that doesn’t fall into any of these 3 categories, and yet it doesn’t get posted (I suppose: it goes to moderation).
Can’t you disable this spam filter for people who have… say: over 100 comments?
And later this post isn’t accepted for some reasons and doesn’t show up here.
I think even $2500 would be too expensive for striping it down. I would have said $2500 if it has state of the art sensor technology and excellent AF system, at least as fast as X100s from Fuji. also EVF must be included for that price other wise it would be no different from NEX 3n except in this case you will have a full frame sensor inside. and you do the maths NEX 3n with a full frame sensoir inside but 5x the price of NEX 3n. you must be out of your mind for anyone would want to pay for such a camera $2500.
i personally would not pay that amount for such a camera and i am sure some still will pay for it. but i will pay $2500 if it is build perform better than NEX7
Well I can see many people who (have) paid 5 times the price when you compare Entry level APS DSLRs with Full frame DSLRs…
But I think (and am in that context on the same road as you) that a $2500,– camera should have a VF, and even weathersealing and some other nice extras, even when it is Full Frame Nex…
What does minimalistic mean?
For me it would be enough if it had all the features like NEX-6 has + touch screen. Also I wouldn’t mind if it was weather-proofed
I’m always puzzle to see that Sony can sell a 500$ APS-C Nex3 with zoom and by just putting a litter bigger sensor the price rocket to 2500$ body only.
2,000 Euros will get my nod. There are plenty of options for FF cameras. Canon 6D and Nikon D600 are still less than 2000 Euros.
As I have been saying after the 3100 Euro Rx1, Leica are very attractive(- to me that is). No need to mount monster lenses either. 🙂
No.
No EVF… no buy.
No VF, no buyee.
As I wrote yesterday: I do like the idea of a FF NEX and I would have considered buying one (instead of a NEX-7 + A99) if it had been released earlier. But now my camera budget is maxed out and I am not going to buy *any* new body within the next two or three years, not even if it is less expensive. I’ll rather spend my money for some Zeiss lenses. 🙂
What’s so special in Nikon D4 for $6000? Come on, Sony, slam that butt for half the price!
With NEX? You’ve got to be kidding me. Noone besides most loyal NEX fanboys will get on that.
Built in EVF and fast AF must be there! Why in the world not?
What makes a camera expensive? Sensor size and quality + processor. Build quality and tolerances in manufacturing.
Sony already has HQ sensors, and putting them in another camera body could not be too expensive. Build quality and tolerances is where Leica excels and narrow tolerances are expensive.
All in all pricce like A99 should be the max. Pricing.
(BTW the A 99 is a very interesting camera. When it was introduced I already bought a D800. If not, I would probably have bought the A99.)
Admin talks about and lists some of the great Zeiss fullframe ZM lenses.
I don’t want to have to purchase new lenses when I have already accumulated some of these great optics. (Often better than ZA,ZF,ZE etc).
So, if the NEX 9 works well with ZM and other rangefinder lenses I will buy the camera. Otherwise it is not worthwhile to me irrespective of price.
Is it a joke ?
For this price I will sold my Nex system and buy a D600 instead.
no interest at all in any nex cam. already have a great minolta and cz gear for my A850. gonna wait a bit b4 buying a new FF A mount.
Yep. And as said before: Successor to the A850 is what we could use. Something to compete with 6D and D600.
NOT yet another NEX body.
It depends on the quality/price ratio – so one way or the other I will always “consider” buying it. Which does not mean I will buy it.
Are you kidding? … Nikon & Canon deliver a cheap FF camera for less than 1600 bucks! And the NEX system should not more expensive than that. Grow up!
Yes, but then you get stuck with a big dirty Canikon DSLR. The point of NEX is the compact and discreet design.
Sorry that’s indeed ridiculous. If you want to climb to the top you have to deliver a significant added value compared to the market leader. Design follows function … @see Fuji, Leica.
That does not mean you have to buy an overpriced camera.
I disagree. Mirrorless are inferior to DSLRs in AF speed, lens selection, viewfinder and general maturity. The reason people still purchase them is because they are compact, easy to travel with and can be used in social environments like restaruants without attracting attention. The distinguishing feature of the NEX 9 is that it ticks all the normal mirrorless advantages while having image-quality that matches or even exceeds the best high-end 35mm DSLRs.
…and in the meantime Nikon and Canon will be selling bucket-loads of cheap full frames and the glass to go with them. Sony will then be scratching their arses AGAIN wondering why people don’t rush to buy their expensive full frame camera.
It’s all very laudable releasing a FF NEX, but do it after you have a concrete foundation to build upon.
The EVF makes the NEX 6/7 the compact gem that it is -and one with a higher refresh rate than the optional EVF of the Leica M -imagine the complaints if Sony were to introduce an archaic split image Leica type system and have the Leica gaul to charge $6,000. for it!! Dear Sony, if you drop the EVF, you’ve dropped the ball.
Sony should not be listening to a single person here. They should use the best minds they have inside Sony to create/build the best “insanely great” product that they could possibly make. If it is incredible and highly desirable we will pay whatever they want, no matter what people say in these posts. Realistically, nobody knows what they want until they see it and if a human wants something they will pay more than they could possibly imagine they thought they would ever pay. Sony should stop asking questions and just let themselves go wild and create something amazing. If Sony cannot do that then they have the wrong people working for them.
+100
Great, waste money and resources that they can’t afford on this while Alpha users jump ship to cheap full frame CaNikon cameras. Yup, brilliant master-plan that is.
Or…
They could make a full frame camera that knocks the crap out of the D800 at D600 prices and sell LOTS OF THEM to A850/900 users gagging for a new camera.
Hmmm, I wonder which would make a bucket of cash for Sony…
As mentioned in the other thread.
Sony shall make both.
The 32MP, feature and support enhanced pro model for the price they have in mind. Again, if they feature (e.g. progammable bracketing, app for remote control and live view, bigger buffer with dedicated processor, etc.) and support professionally they’ll catch some pro photographers besides the enthusiasts having the money for this toy.
Secondly a 24MP reduced model which logically distances from the pro model (not only some MP on the sensor, 0.5″ display and one additional card slot as usual…).
No need to skip an EVF if the price around 2 to 2.5k is targeted.
Sony will have to price point the camera, the same a the Nikon and canon cheap FF cameras. The pro market is already taken up with the 5d3, D600 and the A99, not to mention the 1DX, etc.
I really don’t know why anyone needs a 36 meg camera, unless they are an advertising or landscape photographer.
It really is going to be a FF NEX 7 with the same specs and that’s fine. I think sony will sell heaps of this type of camera, specially if it sits around $2000 or under.
The next year is going to be interesting, plus you have the other companies bringing out FF cameras as well. I look forward to more rumors etc it is interesting reading.
“I really don’t know why anyone needs a 36 meg camera”
The same was said when people didn’t “need” more than 6mpix dSLRs. Who on Earth needs 10mpix? 😉
Hi Frank, Well if we are talking about the average person, they don’t need more than 6 – 10 meg. Enthusiasts obviously want more because they like to print and play they their photos, a lot of enthusiasts are landscape photographers, I get that. Pros, depending on what they shoot will need more specially if they do ad work. I’m a working photographer and these days 80 % of my work gets used on websites as I work for designer the other 20 % go on A4 brochures, and a few bill boards. 24 meg is fine for me.
I believe in buying a camera that suits your photography and end use. If you can shoot raw and can set the camera to various sizes, as with my canon and my RX100 for that matter, then 36 meg is the perfect camera because it caters for all situations.
Maybe, I am sick of my never ending bank of Hard drives.
Actually, its nice to be able to chat to people over seas about photography. and I can’t off this site for some reason.
Anyway, have a nice day. chat soon.
FF Nex with EVF @ USD 2500
i will buy it
Okay lets strip out the 35mm zeiss lens from the RX1 and you have your cheap mirrorless body but to then charge $2.5k for such a body would be foolish and only lead to failure. now price the camera at $1k or add a 3.5mp viewfinder and charge $1.5k and you have a winning combination, but sorry this is not going to happen.
Sony photography is continuing to make losses and their strategy seems to be price them high and sell less, instead of stack them high and sell them cheap
2000 dollars make sense
Do you really think this has ANY bearing on Sony’s product planning at all? I’ve been with the company for 15 years and was closely involved in product strategy and development. I can assure you that while product planners may read all kinds of websites they would never actively engage nor would they really take this kind of input seriously. Generally speaking, customers are very poor source of information for mid term product development. Further more the company must work within restrictions given by core technology development schedules, availibilities, costs of parts and manufacture, specific quality issues etc…
We know that, we are having fun. It’s a rumor site not a sony site.
In that case it is completely fine. Some comments made me think that people actually believe that this is more than simple ploy to replace actual contend.
“I’ve been with the company for 15 years and was closely involved in product strategy and development. ”
So it’s YOUR fault then. 😀
People that don’t listen to a general consensus from their customers are in serious need of pulling their head out of their arse. It’s people like that that don’t put tethering on the A77 even though the A700 has it.
Yes, there are things I should have done better in retrospect. No denying that. However, where strategic product development is concerned customers really have no idea. They simply do not know what is possible and what tradeoffs are or may be necessary. No idea why tethering is not in A77 but I am sure there is a reason. Cost comes to mind. One thing people often miss that each product has an business objective. With Sony’s m/s being so low in DSLR they can make a product that misses big part of the market since to grow they need relatively small sales increase. May sound strange….
I don’t get the hype about FF. FF is just one sensor size among many, it is not the reference or the holy grail. It has specific advantages and disadvantages but it is not better by definition. Concerning noise or high ISO performance, usually the next sensor generation of APS-C sized sensors is better than the current FF sensor, so it is just the matter of waiting 18 month until performance of APS-C is equal. Resolution is no issue – Fuji shows this with their X-Pro1 and X-E1. And DOF: it is shallow enough for APS-C sized sensors with a decently fast lens to have a nose out of focus if the eye is in focus – so it is certainly shallow enough.
For me APS-C is the better choice, and I don’ts see the need for FF. And lenses for FF will certainly not be cheap – so why should the body?
Totally agree, alot of APS-C sensors today has already far out perform full frame sensor that was made three years ago in terms of picture quality. After all, the very end result everybody want is picture quality. No point holding on a easier trap dust big sensor and less sharp lenses in two years later and regret about it.
Indeed, fool frame, not full frame.
I’m sorry Sony but there’s a recession on. How much is the new NEX7n? The cost of the NEX FF should only be the difference in the price of the sensor if you want it to sell well. I have the A77 and love love to upgrade to FF either through A mount or E mount but not at any price.
Do you know anything about economies of scale? Fixed cost vs, variable? What is the associated increase in manufacturing costs caused by larger sensor? Smaller tolerances, faster chips, more memory…. When people have no idea what they are talking about they should just shut up. Too much to ask.
Seriously, the FF RX1 (with a 35mm f2 Carl Zeiss) is 2800$.
A nude FF NEX should be 2200$ max.
2000$ to be an attractive “cheap” competitor.
They need something to undercut the 6D and D600 segment, either through an Alpha or NEX body. The general concensus for NEX cameras is that they’re good as a backup camera for the pro, or as a main camera for amateurs and enthousiasts. Never would I imagine a professional photographer (actually making a living from photography! which probably makes up less than 10% of commenters…) using a NEX 6/7 as their main-camera, and Sony should realise and accept this. Granduer ideas of a top-of-the-line NEX that beats the A99 in pricing is rediculous, it just isn’t what professionals want. Listen to the main audience of the NEX system, amateurs and enthousiasts, they want a cheaper FF system. Undercut the 6D and D600 audience prices, I’d be fine with less than stellar AF or slower framerates. I don’t expect that from FF systems below the $2000. The pro’s of the NEX system is it’s short flange distance, basically being able to put any lens on there. That’s something that a lot of amateur/enthousiast photographers love, being able to put on second hand manual lenses is great for them.
“(actually making a living from photography! which probably makes up less than 10% of commenters…)” – 10%? You’ve got to be kidding me. It’s 1% tops. Most of the people avoid reading these comments like fire thanks to people like Frank.
You love stalking me, it’s cute.
What? misterfolkertsma is your puppet account?
You shouldn’t make one Frank. It’s veeeeery bad thing.
Feel guilty.
Oh, ok, nvm. I get it now.
Well, Frank, face it: Your love for NEX goes beyond reason 😉 It’s not really a discovery or anything.
I can assure you, I’m not.
I do. Delivered two assignments with nex 7 and 5n. Sold my Canon outfit for the NEX’s and never looked back.
Why not just start simple.
Make a FF NEX based on the NEX-7N. Then create a FF version of the EA2 adapter, call it the EA4 adapter, so that all the Alpha FF glass can be fully utilized by the NEX system.
To top it all, have Zeiss make three range finder type FF primes, 24mm, 50mm, 85mm.
to cover 35mm, one can buy the RX1 😉
The thing is that it has to have EVF.
It wont be a hit, if there is only 4000k pro body and sub-body with no EVF.
C`mon. Thats a bad business.
Make nex7 “kind” of a camera with FF sensor. Thats it.
How in the earth you could ask more that 2500k from that?
Then there could be pro FF also, with all top-of-the line stuff…
At that price I’d pay buy an a99 for the bigger feature set and range of lenses.
I’d be very interested in an entry level ff a-mount though, if Sony’s listening…
I would not buy a camera without view finder nor would I buy a comera where external view finder and external flash is an either or thing. Besides, having a view finder built into the camera should not bring it into the $3000-$4000 price range.
Basic camera with configurable addons (EVF, etc) is the way to go IMO, as it keeps inital cost low, but makes the system expandable.
Biggest innovation would, I think be a full external system bus that slots into an optional handgrip or other device. Thus you buy the handgrip if you want things like additional connectivity and even extended buffer memory, etc, etc.
I recall the old 16 bit computers (Atari ST, Amiga) had this: the extender was simply the edge of the motherboard with copper connectors on it, the connectors being optically isolated from the main bus.
You bought a box that slotted into it, and you could put a co-processor, extra memory in it, as well as connect external hard drives, etc. The beauty of the system was that the initial computer was cheap because it needed minimal connectivity out of the box, as it presented its full system bus externally.
This on its own would really open up the camera system, whilst retaining a low entry level. Heck, someone should patent it before RED get their hands on it 🙂
Some people seem to believe the A99 is not over-priced. At £200 more than a D800 and £700 more than a D600 the A99 is very much over-priced. An EVF should reduce the price compared to a prism as there is less assembly to fine tolerances, and for most of us not being Nikon or Canon (with full range of lenses, support networks, etc.) should also reduce the price. So, 80-90% of the price of a D600 or a 6D and we’re talking…
I agree with most of the other previous comments. Why do people get hot and bothered over FF? It won’t make you a better photographer. If Sony can concentrate on IQ, glass and high ISO performance versus sensor size and megapixels then the NEX line will gain more converts. Otherwise, they will hit a glass ceiling when people realize that all Sony is just pushing megapixels and sensor sizes to appeal the paper specs versus field or studio performance. There is bigger fish to fry in NEX such as the ridiculous menu system. At least make it the same as the Alpha line.
Can we PLEASE stop having the same whining over and over again?
People already moved every single possible issue with NEX-9 price any any NEX full-frame camera. No need to make another and another and another topic about that.
It’s the level of frustrated sony customers, that makes the sound. Believe it or not.
Nope, it’s the level of frustrated NEX user who thought that Sony is a charity organization and NEX-FF will be significantly cheaper than A99.
Everyone reasonably knew it’s not gonna happen since the very first rumors about NEX-FF.
Nope, it’s the level of NEX user who thought that NEX-FF will be significantly cheaper than A99.
Everyone reasonable knew it’s not going to happen since the very first rumors about NEX-FF.
Nope, it’s the level of NEX user who thought that Sony is a charity organization and NEX-FF will be significantly cheaper than A99.
Everyone reasonable knew it’s not going to happen since the very first rumors about NEX-FF.
ps. I tried to post this 11 times before system let me through.
Everyone else knew it’s not going to happen since the very first rumours about NEX-FF.
ps. I tried to post this 11 times before system let me through.
sorry, can’t post second part of my comment. Tried ~12 times and it keeps on rejecting it.
Trying to moderate again eh?
2500 USD sounds about right for the body only. But it would have to have a built in viewfinder for that price. If the RX1 is 2800 with a lens then it should be possible to make a body FF NEX for under 2500USD. They can even use the A99 sensor, I dont need a newer and better sensor than that.
…tricky poll to answer. I’d be tempted to answer no, because I’d rather spend an additional 1500,- to have all the bells and whistles, than having a watered down FF Nex whose only claim to fame is to have a FF sensor. I’d stick with the Nex-7 for the moment.
On the other side If I answer no I am not really encouraging anyone to pursue the development of such a camera.
I’ll still say no.
I simply LOVE my A99.
I ditched Canon 5D2 to go for the EVF and the A99 is quite simply a revelation. A wonderful piece of kit.
NEX FF would be great. But there are plenty of people who want a larger form factor. Please don’t forget them.
Maybe SLT will not be needed in future. Thats cool. But I think Sony should not only offer the NEX form factor but also give us larger solid DSLR bodies as well. Make them easily compatible with A mount and E mount, using PDAF AF. Keep the legacy going.
And a cheaper FF option is going to be important. Both Canon and Nikon seem to be stepping back from APSC and investing in FF, including cheaper entry level FF.
Advice?
FF NEX is a good idea.
Cheaper SLT FF is a good idea.
More lenses options please.
Consider easy compatibility across Alpha A and NEX mounts in the future.
Don’t forget not everyone wants the NEX form factor.
Oh… and one more thing…. hire some new people to work on the future NEX menus. It remains a weak point.
I strongly believe that Sony will fail in the (semi) professional market. Unfortunately they have missed the chance to have a competitive FF DSLR with the A99. Too high in price – compared to the delivered sensor quality and compared to FF DSLRs from Canon (EOS 6) and Nikon (D600). They will keep the chance to earn money in the consumer market, and that might be the focus in future.
I am close to switch the system.
Why so many people are comparing A99 with D600/6D? Call the A99 expensive as you want, but be honest – its far ahead of this cheap entry FF’s…
It doesn’t help that it’s more expensive than the D800 either.
Sony failure.
Just to define my preferences positively once: I want something like an actualized NEX-5R with Full Frame Sensor, GPS and Audio-in but without viewfinder for around € 1000,–
I must agree with many posters above concerning viewfinder.
I am 44 years and that has started to make its impact on my eyes. Things that are close are not sharp. So using an EVF instead of a rear screen is much better for me – and many others that are not teenagers anymore.
So… if I am going to buy a NEX, it needs to have a built-in EVF. That is a dealbreaker for me.
But I am not currently in line for a NEX, I am perfectly happy with my a57.
No viewfinder is a complete non-starter.
Add an EVF and IBIS (e. g. make the camera bigger and the lenses as small and light as possible), and I will buy it.
Perhaps a 5r with fullframe 1500-2000 dollar, call it nex8 😉
The answer is still NO…
The key words are Cheap basic FF Nex body only.
With this option, I think it should not even cost 70% of RX1 that comes with 35m CZ.
Around the RX1 price should be the highest they could be able to sell the FF Nex for. The RX1 should have been about 25% lower in price from the start.
Agreed. RX1 is overprice as well.
First full frame compact? I hardly see it overpriced.
It’s too expensive for me, but I can understand the price for pioneering solution. Wait few years, prices will stabilize and go down. So far noone got anything to compete against RX1.
Sony caught competition pants down. No wonder they want to profit from that.
And yes, a cheap simple FF Nex 5- variant at about the price of the OM-D would sell so crazy many that Sony would never be able to finish the rest orders, haha 🙂
The problem is lenses. A “cheap and minimalistic” FF NEX still requires quality glass at $$$$ to make any sense. Sure, people will use it with adapters, but you need to introduce a stills camera with native glass as well if you don’t want to be ridiculed by the market.
And somehow, that would be a contradictory combination. Now as a second body in a 2 body FF line up, it could make more sense.
– Sony, just give us good fair priced E-mount lenses so we will not have to use the other brands (and fiddling with adapters) already.
Sony has a real challenge merging disparate markets here. For instance, wasn’t NEX supposed to be compact and more affordable? If you need a full frame camera, with sufficient buttons and lens options for pro use, aren’t you looking at a 5D or A99 anyway?
Reading yesterday’s poll I was thinking about the facts: Lenses will cost more, and Nex lenses are already expensive enough for me. They say Nex will never have built-in stabilization, but given the already small selection of APS-C NEX lenses, I’ll be needing to use unstabilized Alpha lenses to fill in the blanks.
So Sony, if you’re listening: I LOVE the NEX system for both video and stills. If you make a full frame NEX, I WILL pay $4500 for it, but it needs to be what the VG900 should have been: an A99 with an e mount. OIS built in, uncompromised compatibility with Alpha lenses, and much-improved video quality. Thanks.
The problem for me is still stabilization. The IBIS in my A99 and A57 come into play ALL the time, on stills and video. Yes, my NEX5n and VG20 get used a lot, but only on tripod for video or in situations where there is enough available light for high shutter speed if shooting stills.
The NEX advantage is short flange distance, which massively widens the range of available options for glass. The disadvantage is that Sony has an excellent (albeit smaller) catalog of full frame glass that is counting on the camera body to provide image stabilization, leaving the NEX platform without stabilization (all current E-mount glass with OSS is APS-C only, and none of those have the IQ of the ZA or G options).
Unless they solve IBIS, I highly doubt that I would spend pro money on a FF body that can only be stabilized through 3rd party glass and electronic adapters. But if they can squeeze IBIS into the NEX FF and keep the short flange distance, then put me down for “yes”.
This would be my biggest problem too if I’d be using Alpha glass on a Nex… The adapter would require OSS!
I voted ‘don’t know yet’ because it depends, if this would be the only FF NEX, I’d consider this camera. But what I really want is a high end, top IQ NEX 9 for high resolution images. Like I said yesterday, I’d be willing to pay top dollar for such a NEX.
I would absolutely buy such a camera for $2500!!
Then I would have two Full Frame systems – Nikon and Sony.
In time, once Sony has proven and established its full frame NEX line (shown they are committed for the long term, developed a decent line of lenses, created a better flash system, offer ongoing customer support, offer continued development of the product line, continued innovation) I would “make the jump” from Nikon to Sony, and shoot Sony 100% of the time.
At that time I would buy a more expensive $3000+ Sony body.
And than Sony decides to retire from NEXes because they’ll invent a “next big thing”.
Sorry, but if I were you – I’d avoid jumping fully onto the NEX boat like a fire.
Sky_walker, NEX is a much safer bet for the future than A-mount and you know it, but just won’t admit it.
I’m far more inclined to expand my e-mount glass collection than A-mount. I hope A-mount stays, but if I was a betting man, I know which mount I would gamble on surviving in the long term.
I know you have significant investment in A-mount (I do too), but your negativity towards NEX is indicative of a man in denial.
My opinion on the matter is certainly biased but imho a A grade top technology built-in EVF would be *absolutely mandatory* for such a camera.
If sony engineers want to build a “pro specd” nex camera with high buffer / high speed af, it should be around a medium rez APS-C sensor inside a high quality, bigger than nex-7, weather sealed body, with maybe built in vertical grip.
Honestly what we need is a complete range of nex aps-c line. The nex7 plays the role of the small, high image quality @ low iso camera very well.
I can understand this post, Sony is very funny in going forward and then backward with technology. When Nex 5R is made, sony pay so much money to redesign and repackage a lousier camera. From 5R take out a control dial, remove playmemories, remove infra red remote control function, reduce frame per second. Wow, here is the much lousier NEW camera nex 3N that you can save afew dollars and in exchange you get a small zoom button. Just like Nex 7 to Nex 5R/6, how much money can sony save by removing the Tri navi. If it is a good invention just leave it there to benefits everyone. Instead of improve a 24mp sensor just downgrade all the new batch sensors. Please keep moving forward!
Sony is making a classic marketing mistake.
Current Sony buyers are often buying Sony because they can’t afford other brands. Appealing to that base guarantees at best stagnation.
If Sony want to increase their market share they must eat into the Canon, Nikon and Leica markets.
A full-frame mirrorless of high-quality WILL appeal to owners of Leica lenses. They’re not reading this blog and haven’t any idea about Sony’s FF offerings. Making a cheap camera to satisfy upgraders and those asking for cheap, fast E-mounts mean Sony will be positioned as it is now. Cheaper but not as good.
Leica is an easy target. They charge a premium. Nikon and Canon are much harder – they are pricing as competitively as they can. For Sony to beat Canon and Nikon is hard, as the A99 shows. To beat Leica for value is easy. However they MUST meet or equal the specs. Everything from build, to design, to tech.
A cheap NEX-9 will have as much impact as the NEX-7, no more. It will be a terrible mistake.
You’re portraying Sony to be a price fighter, based on those you suggest buy Sony cameras.
Sony has never really been a price fighter….
“Current Sony buyers are often buying Sony because they can’t afford other brands. Appealing to that base guarantees at best stagnation.”
You do realise that Sony are generally more expensive than CaNikon equivalents? Sony are more expensive in audio visual markets too.
If “Appealing to that base guarantees at best stagnation” then how do you explain the success of Canon and Nikon APS-C cameras and lenses?
Utter fail.
1. Stagnant market share. Sony want to increase that.
2. Sony cameras aren’t more expensive than anything. The G-1X form Canon was priced against the NEX-7, at far lower spec. The Nikon 1 similarly. Sonys best cameras cost as much as Canon and Nikon’s mid-range.
Compacts are a different matter but this is FF mirrorless, not a compact.
Even the RX1 is a value offering given its lens and that there’s nothing to compare it to. It’s the cheapest current generation FF mirrorless if you subtract $1,500 for the lens.
until sony demonstrates that it will support its users with frequent firmware updates that fix the many bugs that will undoubtedly be found, OR to support reasonable user requests that improve the product, there is no way i’d risk this kind of money on this. Sony doesn’t even properly support its Alpha line with firmware updates!!! Sony, u can keep the damn thing!
I still won’t buy it because that is still overpriced.
Why would a camera WITHOUT the legendary and worth Zeiss lens still be more expensive than the one that has got it?
It is possible to build a mirroless FF camera body much cheaper than a SLT or DSLR because the complexity is much lower. So i would expect a cheaper price than for DSRL.
I think $1500 is an acceptable price.
For the lenses this might be different…
Please Miss & Mr Sony !
Alpha NEX FF (Foveon with revolutionary dynamic range). 2200 $
Waterproof – removable screen (like A99)
Video XAVC (50 mb/s) 10bit 4:2:2 – 1920×1080 (2K !!!)
Boooooommmm !
“Would you consider to buy the minimalistic and cheap FF-NEX for $2,500?”
Who thinks that $2,500 is cheap? Not me.
These kinds of polls are absurd!
I my opinion a NEX-9 without viewfinder is like a dead horse, not able to run. And there is no difference when sold for 1500,- or 2000,- or 3500,-
By the way, if this is how Sony thinks then I’m going to stock up on Speed Boosters and forget about the FF NEX…
Good point. Suddenly the speed boosters look mighty cheap!
+1 1,600-2k$ is max (IMHO)… make it as a NEX-8, if Sony wants to produce and market a more expensive one then make the NEX-9 with all those fancy technical things and price it beyond hobbyist budget.
This is funny to me. Sony has been trying to get a corner in the market for years, finally get something with mirrorless, but will probably screw it up again. Who wants to pay 2.5k for a dumbed down model without good system support (3 native lenses at launch or something…). Fuji is going to make a very competent ff for 2.5k. Be careful Sony.
Plus, what is Sony thinking? You charge 2.8k for a FF mirrorlesss with a gorgeous Zeiss 35 f2 and 2.5k for body only? It’s the opposite. Look at the Fuji XE-1 and X100s–you charge less when it doesn’t come with a lens, not more…
I agree that 1600USD to 2000USD _might_ be the right price range to move _some_ folks off their Canon/Nikon systems and downsize into a FF mirrorless pro/semi-pro system.
Further, why wouldn’t Sony _buy_ loyalty by coming in low into the market? Something closer to 1200USD or 1400USD could buy a LOT of loyalty and urge people to jump the Canon/Nikon ships rather quickly, while leaving a little in the budget for those (yet to be announced) hugely expensive Zeiss lenses.
Consider this – the all-up bill of materials (BOM) for a mirrorless camera has _got_ to be LESS than an equivalent featured DSLR (no mirror-box, prism, etc…). Once you eliminate much of the mechanical high-tolerance/high-cost items from a BOM, you can give your engineers the goal of putting more into the electronics. And once the masks/die are set, you can crank these parts out by the millions and drive down cost further.
If Canon can build a sub-2000USD near-pro FF (the 6D), Sony has their target. They should be well aware of that. I like your idea of calling it an NEX8. That would leave room for Sony to do whatever they want price/feature-wise with the NEX9.
I wonder how many Sigma SD1 were sold at 8000USD? Or, closer to Sony’s target audience, I wonder how many Canon 5D MkIII are actually selling, what with the price rise over the 5D MkII and all that? I wonder what Sony would do if Canon came out with a 40+mpixel DSLR at 5D MkII prices?
For FF NEX to be successful, it must be a Leica killer. This means, IBIS and viewfinder. if that makes the camera come in at $3000, fine. This also means full compatibility with alpha as these Leica users will like the idea of a 70-200 or a macro lens now that they are back in a TTL viewfinder camera.
This camera MUST have an EVF, it SHOULD have IBIS. It is OK if the camera is significantly bigger, give serious consideration to making an a99 with an E-mount. This is what will bring new shooters to sony.
I’d agree with *slightly* bigger but please, please not as big as the A99. I’ll just buy the A99 if want a camera that big!
j Dog – rather discourage. Why to get a crippled body in the size of full DSLR when you can get a real DSLR instead? The advantage of mirrorless is in it’s size, not the bayonet. You get rid of that – you get rid of 99% of customers. They’d end up much better by simply buying A99 with AF Zeiss lenses and fast, capable phase detection AF.
E-mount A99 doesn’t make any sense. It’d be a huge step back with only advantage being an option to use 3rd party lenses. And that sux for Sony cause it means they won’t sell as much of them as they would with A99.
That’s not gonna happen.
Agree.
I will not buy it without viewfinder (at least as good as NEX-7).
No matter the price! Period!
Yes. Even at $2,500, it must have an EVF. A detachable EVF may be OK if it does not take up the hot shoe or video output, but price must still be lower. Some might tolerate a 2.4MP OLED on the back if it comes with a quality Hoodloupe. A serious camera must have a real VF that goes up to the eye; LCD-only camera will not be taken seriously. A serious camera also must have a hot shoe and the ability to output video at all times, as well as tethering, which is much more important than WiFi or GPS or any other electronics.
I still won’t buy it at $2,500 regardless. $2,000 is the magic number. It can NOT compete with M or 1D, not even D800 or 5D or, heaven forbid, a99. It competes with D600, and must undersell it. They must also focus on lenses. I want to hear more about lenses; even Leica, notorious for their slow development cycles, when it came out with S2, announced, like, 4 or 5 flagship lenses. Good lenses will more than recoup their lead-loss on the body.
I wonder about the wisdom of Sony’s tendency to front-load features into their cameras. What most of us want is a good sensor, which Sony already has. That’s what makes it a DSLR competitor; plus, the fact that it is a mirrorless has many inherent advantages, and Sony MUST LEARN TO TRUST THEM. Peaking and ability to use legacy lenses. WYSIWYG in still AND video. Smaller size. Contrast detect, which is amazingly accurate. If someone wants a camera that has all the bells and whistles of 1D, they will buy a 1D no matter what Sony or anyone puts out.
Completely agree. To me, minimalistic = A850. A FF NEX would need a viewfinder for me to seriously consider it at anything approaching $3K usd. IBIS would also be a consideration, although not necessarily a deal breaker without. The RX1 winds up being a better option @ $2800 usd w/o a viewfinder.
I’m willing to spend money on something that does something that my A850 or NEX7 don’t do. So, that’s my main criterion. Really, what I actually need is FF 36mp or more. Once we get into the over $3K range, MF and LF film cameras become a good option.
Ok, so I agree with you guys, a99 may be a little big, try a35 size. Anyway, my point was that I was willing to accept some size and shape changes to accommodate IBIS.
Would you be able to use an external viewfinder? I have the NEX-5N and a viewfinder is needed if it is bright. Also, I happen to enjoy using a viewfinder more than the screen. Would you be able to attach the same viewfinder? It was not inexpensive….
I think what we are seeing here is that the target audience (or at least the loudest minority) are price sensitive but even more feature sensitive. The FF NEX has to be as capable as the NEX-6/7 to be worth up to $2500. To be worth more than that, it must offer a truly unique level of performance. As the 5D mkII did by being the first to offer 1080p video from a full 35mm sensor.
Come on now, the previous spec’d NEX 9 should retail for 2,500! I don’t buy how squeezing a FF sensor into a NEX 7 should more than double the cost. Having a FF with no view finder is nonsense. Make a NEX 6/7 featured full frame for 2000-2500 and I’ll preorder.
Just stick a Hood Loupe on the LCD and you have the biggest viewfinder ever.
“Only” 13% of SAR readers saying they would buy at the price floated may be considered good news to Sony. A top shelf FF NEX would not be for the masses. For the record I voted no; however, if Sony would include a FF e-mount 35 F2 for around $3k USD, I am back in. In essence the question would be would you pay a bit of a premium over RX-1 for the ability to use multiple lenses?
I just bought a Canon 6D. gorgeous, and the high ISO is much improved. Matches the Sony, IMO. What exactly would be the incentive to move to a more expensive (+$1,000 or more) NEX FF? Better video tracking and smaller size? Not enough. Just use one of the current mirrorless solutions and my 6D.
However, I’m all for OTHER folks buying an expensive Sony FF, let the market get proven, and let prices drop. Then I’ll buy in around 3 years from now.
Basically what I think people would want is a NEX 9 with a NEX 7 body + full frame sensor at USD2500. I don’t mind if they make it larger to compensate the extra heat coming from a FF sensor, I believe it size should be somewhere between the NEX 7 and Leica M.
While they are at it, make the UI more like Sony SLT.
Oh and with the added size, they could consider adding extra buttons for more direct control. They can skip the weather sealing if they want to save cost since none of the NEX lenses is weatherproof.
The viewfinder discussion is really interesting here: Personally I don’t want one and I don’t want to pay for one and I don’t want to carry one around – a tiltable display allows me to take photos I could never take with a viewfinder and just in case I wanted one for special occasions I’d prefer the tiltable FDA-EV1S instead of the unflexible one inside Sony’s NEX-6 & NEX-7. But even when Sony is offering the option to use their mirrorless cameras with AND without viewfinder, there are some guys here claiming a built-in viewfinder is a must otherwise they won’t buy a Full Frame α NEX even by stating they won’t buy any way, because they’re A-Mount users. Sony would have never invented E-Mount and their mirrorless α NEX line in case they’d asked their customers, I guess, because their A-Mount customers would have screamed about hell freezing over and the end of the world anyway. Sometimes a company shouldn’t ask.
I’ll say it again: Sony is not a luxury brand, so it can forget about going up against Leica, unless it starts a luxury division with a totally different brand identity, like the Japanese auto manufacturers did.
Why all the attempts at gadgetry? Sony is VERY Japanese, I wonder how much of their global camera market is in Japan.
Just make something GOOD and SOLID, and SUPPORT IT.
The A900 was great, but it needs updating with very basic things like a good swivel screen, live view, and EVF. Maybe make a mirrorless implementation using one of the new sensors coming on-line.
And then SUPPORT IT, and you will have something that appeals to “serious photographers”, which should be the market at which Sony FF is aimed.
Sony will NEVER take the luxury business away from Leica, even with something like the RX-1. Yes, I know the RX-1 is cheaper than a Leica–but it’s in the lower end of the luxury goods price range, which is too much for the everyman, and for 99% of consumers is EFFECTIVELY the same price as a Leica–that is to say, unaffordably expensive.
I agree that Sony cannot compete against Leica, and disagree with an earlier poster who said that NEX FF needs to be a “Leica-killer”.
My wife’s parents have money. Her father bought a Leica. When I asked him why he bought it, he said “Because it’s a LEICA!”
I think he spent something like $7k USD. He explained his philosophy that he’d always spend more to get something that wasn’t a “piece of shxt”, and that to him, anything Sony was “Japanese crxp”, whereas the Leica represented “German engineering and workmanship”. No, he’s not German, he’s Indian.
The Leica to him was “heirloom quality”, while Japanese brands were “zero quality”.
Don’t shoot the messenger! I’m just telling you what I heard. To him, the photography is secondary to the idea of overall value, which includes a lot of intangibles.
So that is the kind of guy who buys an expensive camera.
It’s hard to disagree with him, since someday that camera will be mine, and I can be pretty darn sure that it will either work, or that somebody will be able to make it work, when I do get it.
How sad when someone looking at photography in such a way. He might as well learn how to really invest in something with more return than an “heirloom” Leica. You might want to tell him to collect those limited edition since the regular digital Leica would drop in price.
lol, more info please!
I’d love to one-up him!
Cost is so relative. I think people will spend the money but the product better perform to to the level of the cost. I think people was looking at the initial specs and just thought it could be delivered for a lower cost than what Sony was fishing for. SOny makes good products but seems to charge a premium for them. My recent experience regarding that is with the 99. It’s price tag was reasonable to me but it underdelivered in areas that in the end did not deliver to its price point, namely the less than competitve number and coverage of cross points for the AF as well as the unimpressive fps. This then leads to the fact that its processing capabilities was a bit short on speed and power among other issues with an otherwise great camera. My concern I guess is that we won’t get a $4k camera from Sony that is worth 4k. Sony seems to get so close to making a killer camera but then falls short in the end. Nothing is perfect but then don’t charge a perfect price. I would consider 4k for a camera but it better be one hell of camera with a negative list as short as my memory. OK what was I going to say. We are talking short. I am throwing aroung the idea of getting the DX1 so I will pay a premium for a camera but it better be a premium product.
So true. It was surprising how the A99 (after so many years of development) failed to take full advantage of the SLT tech. The 1DX is hitting the limit of FPS with the mirror box slap (it gets 2 more FPS with the mirror locked up) but the A99 doesn’t have this to worry about. So why not increase the buffer and processing power to show off what the tech can do?! Admittedly that isn’t really my shooting style but as a Sony user I feel some investment in the success of their flagship products and was disappointed by the few, glaring shortcoming of the A99 (IMHO): FPS, center-heavy focus points, and soft/moire’ed video.
Discussion 1: A camera which is too expensive, but has all the features the competition has as well.
Discussion 2: A camera which can compete in price, but has substandard features compared to other cameras.
Outcome of the two different discussions is the same: no thank you!
Sony will have to be competitive in both features and price to make the NEX-9 a big succes. Otherwise it will be just a nice novelty proof of concept camera.
Better hurry up before metabones releases Speedbooster for Alpha mount. It will be priced at 400$ and might deliver better quality than NEX FF with Native lenses 🙂 The only drawback it might have is lack of AF, but you never know. If they were able to make EF lenses work from scratch and with lens protocols translation then making A mount lenses work might be easy. Who knows maybe they will make converter addon to LA-EA-4 (something like LA-EA2 for FF in future) or build LA-EA4 like converter from scratch.
Maybe that is the way Sony should follow, forget FF NEX just make LA-EA4 with speedbooster tech and max 700$ price.
They need to beat FF dSLRs in price territory. 2500 USD is still too much.
Frankly what I want is simple. FF mirrorless, that can take optional EVF (or has one), has focus peaking and ability to take Leica M lens. And thats it.
i do expect a VF for FF NEX. if NEX-6 & 7 have a VF, y FF NEX miss it????
AF can be a bit slow, tele user still want a DSLR more than FF NEX due to the better control.
By no viewfinder I hope you mean no optical viewfinder. I would live with an EVF, especially since they are getting so good.
That would leave them room for a higher end, i.e. more expensive, version. wow! A whole family of FF NEX cameras. With probably 90% commonality of parts.
1) Low end, 400 shots, EVF, 5 Frames/sec, 24 MP,
2) High end A, Better EVF, 1000 shots, Optical view finder?, dual card slots, 38 MP, 7 frames/sec, better AF, optional battery grip, high AVC video.
3) High end B, Better EVF, 2000 shots, Optical view finder?, dual card slots, 16 MP, 12 frames/sec, better AF, a zillion flash sync modes, Optional battery grip, 40-50 mps AVC video.
High end A is for general/landscape work. High end B with the lower megapixels allows you to optimize the frame rate and flash for sports/studio.
This is like the Nikon/Cannon FF DSLR line up, pro systems.
In what world is $2500 cheap?
Right! If it’s aimed at photographers, forget it, because they generally have no money for discretionary spending. If it’s aimed at people with money, forget it, because the Sony brand has no value to them.
Even to tech-heads who make tech purchases they can’t really afford, this doesn’t represent good value. A super-hot phone costs less. The latest I-pad costs less. Many high-end audio components cost less. Etc.
The only hope for this type of system is that Sony convinces photographers that it can, and should, be their “core” system.
I’m not a photographer, but the last real camera they produced that could form part of a core system IMHO was the A900, and even that was and is insufficiently supported IMO.
Totally agree. I think Sony and the other camera brands are going to have to take a hit on the bodies and charge more for lenses. That way, enthusiasts can get into the space, but true pros can upgrade to their hearts’ content. In a similar way to the PS3 sales: system is sold for cheap, and content at a premium. Anyway, just my thoughts.
No, I’m not going to pay 1300$ over my Nex-7 for the viewfinder to be replaced with a FF sensor.
Having just the cream-of-the-cream along with bread&water choices leaves no option for me.
Need something like a top 3.5k body and a 1.7k not-completely-dumbed-down alternative/sidekick companion to the former.
Please don’t use the word “cheap,” in quotes or otherwise. Use the word “inexpensive.” However, I prefer neither, and don’t mind paying for quality. It seems to me that is the feeling most prevalent with enthusiast and pro level photographers. If Sony wants to make a run at the full frame NEX, and create a market for it, it must release more than one camera at inception (with different price points), while at the same time releasing a minimum of four primes and two zooms, all of quality, so anyone wanting to jump in has some options to work with. Not all of us want to use adapters and third party lenses. One camera, one or two lenses, isn’t going to garner excitement for those of us who have been waiting for A mount lenses. It worked somewhat with the NEX cropped sensor cameras mostly because you can get adapters and use other manufacturer’s lenses, but there is now blowback b/c the camera’s are coming faster than the lenses, unless you want three zooms of the same focal length (shake of the head). Where is a nice f/2.8 zoom like Panasonic has. Releasing upgrades for camera’s every year while waiting four years to release lenses is ridiculous. Four years for the Zeiss 50mm is too long. And while Sony is at it, how about us A99 shooters, we want a new SSM weather sealed 35mm f/2 or 35mm f/1.4. How about releasing camera upgrades every two and half years and where photographers have time to go through the rated shutter actuations and giving us lenses, glass, you know the more important of the two. The NEX Camera is less important than the glass, man!
+1000. No professional glass, no professional image.
No viewfinder? Are there cameras without viewfinder? I mean cameras, not toys. Take away video, jpg processing, automatic modes and the other junk, which costs close to nothing but still, every bit helps. Now, that would be a great camera, even with a 2008 sensor.
Photographers need cameras; cameras are those things around sensors.
Nerds need bleeding edge sensors; but in fact, they need girlfriends.
As a consequence, nobody needs bleeding edge sensors.
I’d buy it at that price if it had an EVF. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible to add a shutter and EVF considering the price saving for not including the lens.
I’m not after a new sensor design that can take ultrawide rangefinder lenses, or a pro grade body with AF that can compete with a DSLR, just a FF NEX 7 to use with legacy MF glass, a slightly lighter option for landscaping when using current DSLR lenses or E-mount lenses in crop mode when I’m in need of a compact solution for travelling.
For me FF NEX is overkill. I’m looking forward RX10.
Given the option Sony are not really lowering the price just removing parts.
+1
LOL
$2500 isn’t cheap not for a body that has no mirror, minimal design, few buttons.
Cheap is below Canon 6d and D600 levels (clearly they are more expensive to make than a mirror less camera)
Once again i say i want higher resolution,at least equal to the future 8k video res.
Square sensor would be great.
Must have image stabilization possibly with an optical image stabilization a mount adaptor.
I want to use my current a mount lenses with FULL funtion.
A 24mp camera and will not sell well. It’s mediocre and i want my new camera to be a real step up not a baby step.
Sony may market NEX FF against _D600_&_6D_ if they wish to gain quick ROI through Mass Produktion & of course Sales volume.
Otherwise they end-up gambling against the 2 big boys, in hostile playground, ending up with imminent loss. like D600 crashed (pricewise) A99 etc..
Unless ofcourse they want to market it as niche product 😉 (as the RX1)
…decisions…decisions…that’s why those goldenboys are paid for!
I believe A FF NEX is an “future system standard ” project. to replace the entire existed DSLR market. A BIG BIG mile stone I believe myself. design the format carefully rather than consider how much to sell the very 1st FF NEX. the market will tell you the price because Sony may not the only one (or maybe note even the 1st one) to release the FF mirror less camera
I thought the whole point of Nex (and mirrorless in general) was smaller form factor as an “always carry” backup to your dslr. I would never spend 2k on a full frame mirrorless camera because it won’t be that small and the lenses will make it rival the size of some dslrs. A full fledged dslr will smoke a mirrorless camera because of lens selection, form factor, and expandability. No way sony can build a ff mirrorless system that can rival the SYSTEM developed by nikon and canon. I’m a huge nex fan but this sounds like a total disaster.
Give us a super pro A-Mount cam while we wait three years for the FF NEX.
Agree I hope they do it at one point, maybe later 2014?
It just doesn’t make any sense. If Nikon can build a top notch SLR with best 24 MP Sony sensor in the world, whose only issue is crap flying of the mirror, for under $2k, than I don’t see why Sony wouldn’t be able to build a mirrorless for under $2k, including EVF, and all the goodies of a NEX-7n. Why not? Same technology (including the processing required for the same number of MPs) could be used, only difference would be the sensor price which is a few hundred $ at most.
I don’t buy the tale of it being so hard to build one of these for under $3k. Bet it’s all just talk in the hope they will get less static for ripping people off for what is the latest sexy gadget.
Sony, if this is true you lost me for good.
+1
What I don’t get is why the 2500$ body has to be dumbed down and not have a viewfinder surley, if the Nex6/7 can have one the Nex 9 could? It needs to be a slightly upgraded Nex 7n body with a full frame sensor and that is it for around 2500$, why does it need to be more expensive. I also see a trend of trying to make the Nex compete with the top of line professional cameras but why not give us a A1x to do that? this should be Sony’s roadmap IMHO. Willing to take ideas here, because Sony clearly isn’t sure what we want.
2013:
Nex 7n: it is already coming out with those new lenses, needs a high quality zoom but is good.
Sony A78: Please tell me this has a new focusing system/ I would add a couple lenses to this like a Sony CZ 16-80II and maybe a 19-18 f/4 for A mount.
2014:
Nex-9: make it around the 2500$ mark with viewfinder and all the goods you would expect and that are possible to put in a camera of that size. (In other words an upgraded 7n) Also make sure that when it launches it has 3-5 lenses come out with it.
Sony A66: After two years of being on the market the A57 can now finally be replaced with a new A66, I would make it similar to the older one, maybe to keep prices down use the older 2.4 million dot EVF and not what they will put in the A78 and such so around the 900$
Sony A1x: My thinking is that Nikon and Canon will release the D5 and 1dx replacement in early 2015, so Sony should wait until later 2014 and steal the thunder by making this camera, make it great and you have 1.5 years to think about how to do so.
These are my thoughts on how a roadmap should kind of look like, any thoughts?
Just read Luminous Landscape’s assessment of the Nex 7, when using Leica lenses. They are waiting for the new Leica M, but are pretty happy with the 7. I guess that a Nex 9, with a FF sensor at 24 or 32 megapixels at half the price of a Leica M very well could close the cap with the M, as Sony’s sensors are definitely leading the pack.
That being said, a Nex 9 is still not the camera for me – I want a head-of-the-class dslr for my alpha lenses. I want to invest in some zeiss primes, and a kickass 54 megapixel sensor for my landscape work. Yet another 24 megapixel sensor is insufficient! Now that there is a really great zeiss 50 mm coming out, it’s time to release a camera that will push the limits of that glass!
If Sony would have asked that question about the RX1:
“Would you buy a fixed lens FF camera with a 35mm f2 CZ lens for $2800/£2600?” The reaction would have been the same here.
They didn’t ask the question but did Mark Weir not say that the RX1 demand was healthy and either within the expected numbers or exceeding the expected numbers?
I bet they call it a success at Sony.
You’re exactly right because the people buying the RX1 aren’t traditional Sony buyers. They’re switchers.
OOps forgot to post this link to the Luminous Landscape article. http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/m_waiting.shtml
And,some moron will tell me that I can use my alpha lenses on a Nex, ignoring the fact that stabilization is, for most, a necessity, and also that a larger body is needed for handling (an dedicated buttons/switches). So, don’t waste my time guys!!!
Too many comments from people who want to be able to afford a FF mirrorless camera. Not enough from those of us who can.
If $2,500 is ‘a lot’ to you then you’re not the kind of person who’s going to drop $5,000 on lenses either. I.e. you’re not the target market.
2500$ is just about right, but with a viewfinder. The problem isn’t that it is to expensive, the question is why try to make an ultra expensive mirrorless camera, I guarantee you that more people would like to see a Sony top of line DSLR and than the mirrorless camera, because it would show that Sony is serious about competing professionally. Would more people buy the top of line DSLR no, but it would show a commitment. So I think we need this Nex-9 to be a Nex-7 with a full frame sensor for 2500$ or so.
It’s not about being able to afford something, its about pricing the within the market correctly. A D600 is 500 or more less than a proposed 2500 FF NEX. What exactly would be the point of pricing it so high? The only reason the RX1 is so expensive is the glass. Without that, it should be around 1500-1700.
RX1 is not so expensive only because of the glass, but the tech and R&D put into it to make it happen. If cameras were only costly because of the materials and the labor put into them, then they would be considerably cheaper than they are today.
R&D for the RX1 and RX100 are nothing short of outstanding.
For $2800 you can buy a lot of SLRs and great lenses too but none of them would have the sheer size or image quality than an RX1 can.
$2800 for a FF NEX is right.
R&D? Which R&D? Are you kidding?
Just because some of us can afford it does not mean we should invest in it. I didn’t get into the financial situation I’m in by shoving money at bad or unnecessary products
Speaking as a current a99 and Nex-6 user and former RX1 owner, the two must have features for full frame nex is top level af speed and an evf. Those are the main reasons I had to let go of the RX1. If Sony wants working pros to buy the camera, dual card slots, no aa filter, and an optional vertical battery grip would be great. If they nail all five of those I will pay their 3000+ price.
Sony is deluded, they still think its 1986 still and can price their products to match their 1986 reputation. Its 2013 and Sony has less market share than their korean countrrparts. They need a good mirrorless ff for $1500
x100s(APS-C sensor) MSRP was $1,299.95. I don’t see why anybody would make an FF mirrorless and sell it only for $200.05 more. APSC to FF price difference is always significant.
I’ve spent $6k on alpha lenses over the past three years for my a850. Why would I start over with a new system? If I do, why would I stick with Sony?
I want an upgrade to my a850.
I did buy a NEX 6 based on the good prices reported here…that’s a great camera for carrying around, but I would not spend more than $1k for a camera just to carry around and take snapshots. The model just seems wrong. Why buy a light-weight carry-around camera and then start adding mongo FF quality lenses to it? It’s not a carry around camera anymore then…
I use a $1,300 lens on a $300 APS-C body as my carry around camera. It’s compact, the quality is amazing. It makes perfect sense. Lenses are worth more than digital bodies.
I love my 5N. I also love my D600. But I am now buying lenses for my D600, not the Sony.
For me personally, it would have to outperform a D600 in every single way to be worth $2500. It has to have an EVF with a super fast refresh rate for sports and blazing fast AF. No fast EVF or fast AF, then price needs to drop significantly below $2k to be considered (by me).
Be realistic, FF is moving down market, not up.. FF prices in SLRs will continue to come down in time. Soon we will be back to “SLR” being synonymous with 35mm like it used to be. FF DSLR will continue to lose size and mass. History will soon show that APS film and sensor size was only a stop gap.
Sony can either get on the FF train with more reasonable prices for bodies and lenses or let it pass them by.
I can not agree. ASP-C is going to stay because of the size of the system. I mean lenses included. But yes, price of FF SLR will go down for entry level FF cameras but not much for pro body. Price of FF lenses will not drop.
BOTH!
Sony should make both a “cheap” and a “pro/expensive” FF NEX.
BUT!!! Both should have a EVF.
Thanks!
I’m not sure why it should cost more than a RX1 since that includes a Zeiss lens.
How difficult is it to separate the lens from the RX1 and slap an E mount on it and call it a day.
Make your money from lens sales. You can’t take any more money from RX1 owners but you can from NEX-9 owners.
Anyway, I think only hardcore pros would buy it. I would rather by a speed booster for $400 and slap some c/y Zeiss lens on my NEX.
The problem with this model is that Sony is an electronics company, not an optics company.
The reality is that if the lenses are all going to be about $1000+ each, a $3000 body works. Why expect a $1500 body only to spend that same amount on every lens? You all are talking about how overpriced the body is, but it’s the lenses that will really add up. I’d rather have an APS-C and a stop faster lenses over FF and slower lenses. Combine that with the possible use of SpeedBooster, and I’m not seeing enough benefit of the FF NEX for me.
If you are just the average hobbyist with six figure income in USD then spending a few thousand of a camera system that will provide good service for years to come isn’t a big deal.
Anyone more serious or a working pro understands that a full-frame kit is made-up of not only a camera body ($2,000 to $6,000 USD) but three of more lenses that depending on speed will cost between $1,000 and $2,500 for each lens.
The Sony a99 with a 16-35/f2.8, 24-70/f2.8 and a 70-200/f2.8 is going to cost between $8k and $9K just of a camera and lenses so get used to it. And three years from the day you buy a camera you will be spending another $3,000 or more to get a new one.
Full-Frame is expensive, so if spending $2,000 or more for a camera body only is more than you can afford STOP and look at one of the many fine crop sensor cameras, as most of the time your photos won’t look any different and you will save thousands if that is important to your pocketbook.
I can’t afford a Porsche so I drive a Toyota and I don’t see any value going online complaining that Porsche doesn’t lower the price just so I can buy it.
Thanks. Another of the very few men with some sense in this thread. You are right.
Andrea this is talking about NEX-5 with full frame. This si great but lets look at figures
D7100 is 1200 Euro, NEX-5R is 600 Euro
D600 is 1600 Euro, (How much should one give for the larger sensor NEX-5FF camera)
Per my calculations 800 Euro is about right; 1000 to 1200 euro is pushing it; 2500 euro is stupid
Excellent point.
Sony make a mirrorless a mount camera with really high res 54mp or higher resolution.
With the newly accepted 8k video standard nothing less than 36mp will be acceptable to anyone once 8k tv comes out.
Set a new standard with a 8000 x 800036″ pixel square sensor.
If you want to sell your ff nex tou will need to make a new a mount adaptor with optical stabilization elements. This adaptor or built in stabilization are your only vaible choices.
your current slt users will abandon you if you render all thier a mount lenses useless.
Your current plans allow full use of cannon or nikon lenses but not sony a mount.
Thats a stab in the back to all your most loyal customers and not acceptable.
If you do this to your customers you will go out of busines.
You are not showing a clear direction and we will not spend thousands of dollars rebuilding our lens collections every time you change your mind.
I will upgrade my camera if you give me a real upgrade.
The last real upgrades you made were the a77 and nex 7
They sold well and won awards
Your new stuff doesnt sell. You give us no good reason to buy them.
Were trying to tell you something. Please listen to us before its too late. Otherwise i will miss you when you are gone.
High-MPx sensor could have been made years ago. But much powerful CPU is needed too. Since CPU is based on ARM core, we have to basically wait for more powerful smartphones to get more powerful cameras.
A purchase of a FF NEX would really depend on its specs for me. Assuming Sony would want to target the enthusiast market like it is with the 6 and 7, if the FF NEX is simply a 3N/5R approach with a FF, I would not give it a second glance, even if the price were well within reason.
I would rather Sony produce a well-developed FF camera and give it as much attention the product requires to attain similar performance to the RX1 (not requiring same image quality, as the ability to change lenses on it makes it much more difficult to engineer to that standard or so I believe) I would need it to be either a mag. alloy build, or if plastic (to keep costs lower) make it feel like the NEX6 that, while plastic, does not give off a sense of any cheapness. Also, keep it geared towards enthusiasts that are looking for a more portable option for a full frame. Meaning, it would kill me to see a control dial with TWO auto settings on it or a power zoom lever. (I really hope that stays in line with the more consumer friendly 3/5 bodies)
As for size, if it keeps costs low enough, I would be willing to sacrifice the NEX’s tiny body to a degree. Compared to DSLRs, if a NEX body ever got too large it would defeat the purpose and lose its appeal, but if you’re making a FF model, then you’d be comparing to FF DSLRs which, are also much larger and heavier than APSC bodies, so a minimal increase in size over the 6/7 I feel is a fair trade off if that means keeping prices within reason.
As we all know, the challenge of bringing such high performance into such a tiny package will ALWAYS demand a higher price tag. Just look at laptops, TVs, anything! You pay that Apple premium in part because they are so thin and small rather than a chunky plastic PC. These NEX cameras are premium products and therefore, should be priced accordingly. I would hate for Sony to dumb down these amazing cameras just to get more sales. Having said that, looking at current prices for FF DSLRs, I would think a $2500 price for the body only is fair. A high price to swallow, but if they can achieve the performance of the new entry level bodies from Nikon and Canon that sell around 2K, but present that performance in a package that is a little larger than a NEX7, I think the weight savings and size reduction alone warrants the $500 premium. Besides, if they were to enlarge the body some, that would leave more room to possibly include the desired physical controls the typical FF buyer is looking for.
I currently have the 5N, and new to photography (upgraded from a point and shoot last September), and while I love my camera, I feel I have already outgrown it. Now I am looking for a camera with more physical control and larger grip since I find shooting with the 5N all day gets tiresome. I would consider the 6 but read the IQ isn’t all that much better so why spend all that money? And the 7 is going to be replaced very soon so I want to wait for that model to come out. Just throwing it out there if you are reading this Sony, You are making some very smart moves by “lowering” the 3N to bridge the gap between point and shoots and the ILC arena, making the proposition of an interchangeable lens system less daunting and intimidating. After starting out with the 3N from their initial point and shoots, they could eventually move onto the 5, 6, and 7. Adding a FF top end model would complete the NEX series as an end all system that allows consumers to begin as a budding photographer into a serious shooter. And thank you for coming out with some quality lenses! In an ideal world, I would love to see a NEX lens lineup that essentially has doubles of every lens. One at the consumer level that the entry level 3/5 user can purchase and try out (keeping cost and size as the highest goals), then a mirrored set of lenses that are sharper and higher quality that focuses more on build construction and optical quality over size and price. I think having a FF NEX, and with a new 7 in the market, there will only be an ever-increasing demand for high quality glass. While at the same time, still producing lenses that new consumers to the line can afford and experiment with as budding photographers.
$2500 price I would pay in an instant but it needs to be a decent camera. Sure you can have room for a higher end model above but make sure the sensor is top notch and if you leave the EVF out, then at least have it be an available option. Please make sure the flash is built in. I don’t want to have to decide between flash and EVF. Seeing the voting results I only that all the NO voters don’t tank this camera. I don’t know what peoples problems are… seriously love the NEX more than any of my CaNikon crap that I had. I just want to get the FF look from some of my lenses, but with the performance that I get out of my current NEX6 sensor and about the same size too!!!!
They can make NEX-3 compete with entry level DSLR, how come they cannot make NEX-9 to compete with entry level FF? If they want to compete with Leica, make a higher end NEX-11.
I cant believe all the people who think they being upset with price/lens selection/etc is going to do anything. Why is there so much of this??
Sony is going to do whatever they want. They have a long history (culture?) of not listening to customers and plodding along down whatever path they see fit. They dont see it as they are required to build what the people want, they see it as the people will buy what they build, because they’re “Sony”.
At the same time, I agree with most everyone’s complaints. And its sad; the cameras are great, they’re all just a little misguided. There is so much room for expansion and growth and success, but because Sony apparently has no well defined roadmap, the system is unstable, and will collapse if they dont change.
So my hypothetical question to everyone who’s compaining about rumored prices being too high, or lens selection too low, or anything inbetween; how would you feel if Sony decided that the market wasnt responding to their products in a way that they want, and pull the plug on the imaging division entirely? Do people want Sony to fail or succeed?
Jack
If they were smart they’d sell the imaging division, or pieces of it, off to someone else rather than just dismantle it…hopefully to someone who’d take all of that tech and make much better use of it.
Honestly, thats a really good idea. It could be sold to a large electronics company that has no existing mount customer base established, who’s willing to invest in what exists and listen to customer concerns. Now you’ve got me thinking what company might fit the bill.
An interesting idea!
Jack
I have three Sony bodies and if Sony wants to shut down their imaging division then thats fine with me. There are plenty of other camera companies that I am willing to spend a few thousand dollars on bodies and lenses every year. Good luck with that Sony.
I don`t think nex-9 have lens support neither a system support to normal people pay that price, E-Mount on full frame does not make me feel secure, about the capabilities. The NEX-9 has to be the better full frame camera ever, to people pay that cost. Sony still not there and they have to be reliable.
Nex-9 is for:?
Leica is not for professional photographers who make their lives with photography, is for rich people if sony will choose that path, sorry but i don’t want it. Sony, make us a realiable system, that we can carry less weight in our bags than our SLRs, thats the hole point of having a csc full frame.
Please, faster and better auto focus, better glass, better viewfinder (lag). Lets put an end in this canikon market!
A lot of people are talking about price point for a camera that is obsolete before it is even built.
If sony has a 36mp prototype we should not even be talking 24mp it should be dead in the water.
I realize sony has invested a lot in this project. The only way to salvage it is to at least put thier highest resolution sensor in.
24mp dont even go there. Dont waste our time and sony money.
While sony is wasting everyones time the competition will be making real advances.
I’d rather have a 24mp sensor with better quality at higher ISO’s than a higher megapixel count sensor with less quality at high ISO’s. For me, the main reason to own NEX is using it as a walk-about camera. And that often necessitates a higher ISO.
Sony needs to improve IQ, ISO and processing performance (BIONZ) before chasing more megapixels. They also need to create a consistent system (hotshoe???) and have a credible and reliable service network (Laredo is a joke). I think a lot of people here are fixated on a 24+ megapixel FF NEX when it’s not going to be until you spend $1K to $2K in lenses before you can push the performance of that sensor.
The NEX-7 is roughly comparable to the equivalently-priced Nikon, the D7000. Essentially you’ve got many D7000-level features (with a better framerate and more MP), with a big sacrifice in AF capability but a big bonus in the compact size. The FF NEX system SHOULD mirror Nikon/Canon’s lineup if Sony is going to compete…a high-spec model at around $3000 and a low-spec model at around $2000. Not only would that make the most sense and please the most people; it would put Sony right there in the mix with CaNikon as well.
I’m really sick of the few of you out there who are complaining about “whiners.” Sure there are some idiots around, but the vast majority of us in opposition to the single ultra-premium model aren’t kvetching because we want everything for free – we’re doing so, simply, because a FF sensor in a NEX-7 body is not worth $3000, and even if they were to magically create an AF system that could compete with the current FF SLRs and give it all sorts of premium features, ONLY having that high-priced model would rule most of us out of the purchase and mean very low sales numbers. We see that all of those features are worth a premium price, and don’t demand an exact replica of a D800 in a tiny body for $1500. But we want and are willing to buy a lower-featured FF camera because we want that FF sensor, and it makes very little sense for Sony NOT to dramatically expand their customer base by introducing a simpler model along with the pricey one. What would be the point, just to ensure some sort of new reputation as a premium brand that they’ve done nothing to merit thus far? It would just be a giant missed opportunity.
If you want to pixel-peep then spec and output of a NEX-6 is more comparable to D7000, control wise a NEX-7 is comparable to the D7000.
I’m more interested in seeing a reasonably priced FF NEX, not a “cheap” one. It absolutely MUST have a state-of-the-art EVF. It must also let me use my A-mount lenses.
I also want it to have at least a 32 MP sensor, not 24 MP.
Instead of going for FF just think about how olympus with its 4/3 OMDEM5 is doing.
It is not just size. We are not going to pay just for larger size. What comes along with it may matter more. In the nex series we pay for taking part in an ecosystem. If the ecosystem is threatened we will have less reasons to stay within. So, just tell us some more about the FF Nex mount…
Truly and without any disrespect to those who love the NEX system, does it really matter to have a compact full frame NEX, and based on the previous pols, who will use it on a daily basis professionally? Just my 2 cents.
No built-in EVF?! No thanks.
This price rumor/voting might be same nasty play as rumor about canceled higher res and specs A99. All those things might help in making impression that A99 isn’t overpriced. It is about two times too expensive especially in Europe. This is not only average Joe opinion but also David Kilpatric.
Sony you failed badly with A99 price. If you would like to sell this camera cut prices to meet current competition.
If you would like to sell other FF cameras then price it according to market not your imagination. If you can’t then don’t waste resources.
Some peaple (im not one of them) might want a lower res camera with higher quality image.
Using firmware 4 adjacent pixels can be combined. Eliminate the 2 pixels that deviate most from the others and average the two that are left.
Result less noise snd higher guality lower res image for those who want it and more pixels for those of us that need it (me)
Bottom line……… give us our pixels
If you need to put in a faster processor do it.
Even people that usually dont need higher res sometimes do.
I currently take 4-16 24mp pix of portions of my subject and combine them in photoshop to get the resolion i need. I would really like to be able to take one picture with really high resolution.
8000 x 8000 pixels square ir higher would be heaven for me.
it’s a little disturbing where the talks about a Sony FF NEX is going. It seems to be centered on price. While Canikon is pushing down the pricing of FF, Sony is trying to push up the prices? Sony believes it has something better than canikon? Lack of lenses? Lack of accessories? Lack of support? Does Sony have Leica’s glass? I’m sure a few Zeiss glass may be nice, but Leica has a whole line up. It also has history that it sells to dentists and lawyers. What value is Sony bringing that is so better than the competition? Nothing.
Anyone that agrees we want higher resolutio reply with just two words so sony will hear us loud and clear!
PIXEL POWER !!!!
PIXEL POWER !!!
Seriously?
Maybe after this you can send out a chain letter.
It costs millions of dollars in research and development for a new camera; they’re not going to be swayed by a photorumor sites’ pixel power petition.
Perhaps your post was a joke?
Honestly even if you got 500,000 responses, you’d get better results if you put a couple of flashes/reflectors on your head and do a “Pixel Dance” on the sacred grounds of the Minolta headquarters to appeal to the Sony gods.
Why does a FF Nex have to be that expensive? If they would just fit a FF Sensor instead of the APS-c in the NEX6 would that really cost 2000$ more? I know it’s not that easy. But the NEX6 Body sells for 660€ in central Europe, i don’t think even 2500€ would be adequate… 1500€ would be.
Product differentiation(FF is always pricier than APS-C) + exclusivity(if no FF mirrorless from Samsung yet by that time).
It seems likely that I might buy such an item, but with the following caveat: I will NOT buy a camera without some form of IBIS. No exceptions.
$2500 is what I am looking to pay for a FF NEX with built-in VF. At this price, I expect weather seals and good focusing. At $3k price pt, I expect a 36mp sensor and top notch focusing. I paid over $3k for the awesome D800E, but that camera brings along a huge lens line up. I’m not paying more for less. In most people’s mind, Sony isn’t up to par with Canikon so why pay more? Anyone here believes the A99 is comparable to D800 or 5DIII for the price they are asking? Not only features and capabilities, but also system value proposition.
At $4k, it had better be a world beater. 36mp +, better AF than Canikon, GPS, Wifi, built-in top notch VF, weather sealed, top notch video, fast fps.
MORE PIXEL POWER! !!!
I hope they price the FF camera so that it can be broadly adopted and not as an oddball collectible. Normal sane pro’s need to be able to pay off or in some way realize the value of a camera body in at about 2-3 years and then move on to the next thing. The great thing about the NEX system is that you can utilize a vast assortment of legacy lenses. Assuming it’s basically NEX-7 with a FF sensor I would start to loose interest as the price gets above $2k.
For me an EVF is an absolute necessity.
Cheap basic NEX 9 yes, immediately. EVF is a must, this is what make the NEX interesting. NEX without EVF, never. And yes haptic must be way better.
Buy the way FF NEX is already here with NEX 7 and Metabones Speedbooster.
Cheap basic NEX 9 yes, immediately. EVF is a must, this is what make the NEX interesting. NEX without EVF, never. And yes haptic must be way better.
Buy the way FF NEX is already here with NEX 7 and Metabones Speedbooster.
Sony is just going to Fck this up. Just give us the damn e-mount camcorder already!
If you’re shilling for Sony, deliver this message for me please. $2500 for a NEX FF without an EVF and reduced feature set is not going to motivate me to purchase one. If the rumored NEX7n has improved autofocus to go along with the improved EVF, I’ll go that route and add a metabones speedbooster and still be well under $2500.
The suggestion that 2500 should be perceived as cheap is quite amusing. Lol
More realistic suggestions are:
– Small cameras are cheaper than big cameras.
– Customers know that FF sensors are much less expensic than the camera industry wants to make us believe
– cheap Nex body with ff sensor = 1000€
– plus build in viewfinder = 1100€
– nobody wants a cheap body with an expensive external viewfinder
– nobody wants a FF camera without a build-in viewfinder
– cheap Nex camera costs 1100€
– expensive higher quality Nex body can cost 500€ more
– expensive NEX FF model costs 1600€
CZ lenses that last for 20 years can be expensive, not the camera body that will be substituted after 18 months.
+1
I agree with you complatelly. In fact i want an ff camera without a viewfinder 😉
I don’t think that 1000 dollars for a FF Nex is realistic.
The least expensive FF camera on the market is the Nikon D600, which uses a kind-of-old body (D7000 series revamped) with an FF sensor.
If the FF Nex is going to have a newly designed body and mount, plus the FF sensor, it will hardly be less expensive than the least expensive DSLR.
I would be more than happy if it were marginally more expensive than the D600. I could seriously consider it, in that case.
Sure 2500 is not ok (I mean, I could get a D600 + kit lens and I would still have money for a basic non FF Nex kit… I can’t go FF Nex that way…)
Then forget about FF nex, anyway it’s not necessary. If your don’t target cheap FF nex to steal the market share, then no need to abuse us, keep losing your shares and sell your buildings.
EVF from NEX-7, 24MP, High speed AF which is faster than NEX-6 at around USD 2k for body only.
comes with some cheap prime lens alternatives
i will buy it then 🙂
That’s still overpriced. $1500-$2k is the sweet spot to consider it. At $2500ish, it should be full featured. If you view the product as a Leica competitor, then fine, price it much higher and sell dozens. If you view it as an A99 alternative/companion, then I don’t think you can put a premium on the smaller form factor.
You already know that you’re trading of AF speed for size, and a there are surely a few other trade offs. Frankly I prefer the ergonomics of a larger camera. The thing I don’t like is that big cameras draw too much attention. Also, it becomes a bit to haul around on long excursions.
Most people in SAR are not interested in spending a lot of money on gear. Many people are on a budget and would prefer cameras below $2000. If I were Sony, I’d get that mirrorless A mount full frame out. And mirrorless A mount APS-C cameras out. You’ll have a bigger lens selection right off the bat and will sell more of the cameras. Price them reasonably, and watch the sales take off. It’s apparent that many NEX users (especially those who read SAR) are not really interested in higher priced but high performing cameras and equipment.
Sony just needs to make the camera little bigger than the nex-7, use the same battery as the a99, have dual card slots , 24mp and something that the other nex cameras don’t have. It can’t be that hard. The real problem is coming out with lenses that people will want and some that won’t cost a million dollars.
AT $2500, many enthusiasts will be left out. That’s still too high.
The camera that this could compete with would be the Canon 6D. Price-wise, they would be in the same category, but the size benefit would tilt the scale in Sony’s favor.
Just be sure to address the AF accuracy. It’s troublesome even with focus peaking on my A65.
Yes the EVF is a MUST HAVE! A “Moon priced” body approach that is more Xpensive than RX1 is quite ridiculous marketing trash talk and wish thinking.
Thank God, in reality with D800 and 5D Mk III out there (and maybe a mirrorles Samsung FF) Sony will learn the the “apropriate!” priceing.. If they belive they can sell a NEX FF Body for over 2,500€ => only the Zony Fan BoyZ will buy the toy and Cannon, Nicon and Samsung will wipe them of the market!
If on the other hand the NEX FF can really visibly Outperform Cannon and Nikon in Image Qulity, Meetering, Focus Speed and/or LowLight Performance they could earn some money.
Agree!
Just confirmed-
The Nex-9 Will not be what photographers wants…
Whatever you would like to see in it… won’t happen… ever…
Small size is a must (slightly larger than nex7 OK)
EVF is a must
IBIS would be greatly appreciated
Don’t care about weather-sealing
Under $3k is a must
If more than 3k I’ll just buy a Leica.
In fact apparently Sony is not going vs Nikon or Canon, here, it is going vs Leica.
Good luck with it (and the big market od Leica buyers, who will certainly be eager to abandon a secular brand like Leica to invest into a mount belonging to Sony, which, so far, has a known record for abandoning not succesful mounts (alpha)…)
It needs to be a full frame model of 32-36 mp and have all the important features of a pro model, flash features inc. such as high speed shutter sync at 1/250th or better, reasonable low noise at high iso 1600 or so. Flash sync ports, bracketing, video would be fine, actually that could be on the lesser priced models as far as I am concerned. Extremely high pic. quality at low iso’s. Just make it a high mp pro model then + or minus 500$ does not matter to me.
The solution, make a 16 mp fullframe sensor, better than the d4 one, more autofocus points, 11 or more fps. price down and we will have a champion. Serious, i totaly would buy one!
At $2500 I will still compare it to 5DM3 or A99 bodies. Smaller form factor is an advantage over DSLR, but it doesn’t separate it from them since they all have the same task, to take pictures. I’m willing to pay more for a smaller form-factor FF-camera, but I will not pay more if it has less features than equivalent DSLR like 5DM3 or A99. The ideal price for full featured NEX-FF should be around $3000 for body only. The cheap NEX-FF with reduced features should cost no more than $2000. No matter what Sony thinks, people *will* compare NEX-FF to DLSRs like D600 and 5DM3. Just like people compare current NEX-5/6/7 to APS-C DSLRs.
MORE PIXEL POWER !!!
A fully featured Nikon D600 with a much more expensive viewfinder is $2000, and they pay full price for the sensor from Sony. It is not the features that cost. It is the sensor. By what stretch of an addled brain is a feature stripped FF Sony NEX cheap at $2500?
Enthusiast level camera? I’d say max $1500…
So what is the competition in that part of the marketplace? Nikon’s D600 and Canon’s 5D Mark III. So how is a stripped down NEX with no viewfinder and limited feature set supposed to compete with these other FF cameras? If this is Sony’s best idea they are in serious trouble.
I am seriously beginning to wonder if a FF NEX is nothing more than proof of concept exercise like the R-1 which Sony dropped like a hot rock while leaving early adopters holding the proverbial bag.
What do you mean Sony dropped the R1 like the proverbial bag? You have to understand that the suppositions posted on this site is not coming from Sony, but ruminations from the site owner.
I’m not referring to the RX-1 but the R1 which Sony dropped into the marketplace about a decade ago and sadly walked away from. No firmware updates, no follow-ups, it was one and done. It was apparently a “proof of concept” camera. Nothing more, nothing less.
I suspect Sony is using this website and these responses as a focus group as they refine their FF ideas – in short – I suspect this is more than just an exercise in building website traffic.
Sony never promised that there will be sequels to R1. R1 was not a interchangeable lens camera , so even if there were no further R1s your R1 would not have stopped working and you are not left with stray lenses. In fact mine is working great even now. Next week it will be visiting Holland.
Further I would argue that R series was never dropped. Rx100 Rx1 are all from the series R1 was.
Why oh why does Sony have to price it this way?
The RX-1 is priced at $2800 and we are told that the lens alone is worth well over $1000. Now I realize that a FF NEX would involve some additional engineering to allow it to take interchangeable lenses, but would this engineering cost more than the Zeiss lens on the RX-1?
Fuji prices their interchangeable lens XE-1 body at less than their X100 and X100s cameras with fixed lens.
I just don’t see the justification for this early trial balloon pricing. Anything at $2500 had better be fully featured…as someone else noted, though, the real sweet spot would be between $1500-$2000 and still have a good feature set.
Right now I can get a Canon 6D plus the excellent 24-105 L lens with other goodies from B&H for just over $2300. Sony needs to consider the pricing of cameras like the 6D and Nikon D600 to effectively compete. And the pricing of these entry level FF cams will only come down over time.
If they are instead aiming to compete against Leica, then good luck…Leica has a very loyal following and there is no way that Sony can create that Leica mystique for that market. Plus the Leica market is not large enough for Sony anyway.
Come on, Sony…you can deliver the goods at a good price…just do it…
+1
Agree!
I could’nt agree anymore
The R1 was a good idea but one fugly camera! They could have refined it, but like Sony do they just dump stuff.
NEX just doesn’t rock my boat honestly I see it purely as a way for Sony to cut costs on production.
Now the Fuji X system, that has potential (at least more potential) but DSLR users well we want DSLR’s not ILC type cameras.
Sub $1500 a FF NEX has some chance but none over that price
Dear Sony managers, please do yourself a favor: define your target user(s) for this FF NEX project, go ask them what they expect from such product, understand their needs and priorities so you can address they needs in the product design. Stop asking random people on interntet for an advice on what could be your breakthrough product.
+1. Asking SAR would not help whatsoever so I have not participated much so far. It’s more confusing looking at the polls’ results so far.
As Nikon D600 was sold for $1600 (recently)with EVF and minimal automation…Can Sony develop something around $1500 similarly and some more features thrown in. This will motivate people..even though lens is non-existing for E mount Fullframes.
Really? Who is asking such question?
FF with No EVF and 2500$ ???!!!
They Did Not Learn from RX1?
Almost The only (Main) critics was about the lack Of viewfinder…
do not forget the relative slow AF!
Sony will have a hard time being successful no matter what they do.
Sony knows in order to gain market share, they HAVE to push themselves very hard to develop innovative, groudbreaking, beyond-cutting-edge cameras, like the RX1 or technology behind the rumored NEX9.
Product A is a hypothetical innovative product. It costs them $2500/unit to produce.
Product B is based on product A, stripped of standout features. It costs them $1800/unit to produce.
If Sony markets Product A at $3000, they will sell very few of them, but make a profit on those they do sell.
If Sony markets Product A at $2000, they will sell very many of them, and take a huge loss.
If Sony markets Product A at $2500, they will sell a decent amount of them, but not make a profit.
Now…If Sony markets Product B at $2000, they will sell, but Sony will lose their innovative edge. It will sell to CURRENT mount owners who want an upgrade, but it will not sell to Nikon and Canon owners because it wont be enough to persuade a system change, so it will not help them gain NEW high-end camera customers.
This is why I think they’re avoiding an A89 version of the A99 right now. While it will sell well, it will not build their market share. Ideally, would they want to introduce an A89 also? I’m sure they would; but they’re not in a good financial position right now for further development costs that dont directly line up with their goal of gaining market share.
If this is true, is this a good move? Perhaps it is.
Sony is clearly after “innovative cameras”, not “classic cameras” (Canon, Nikon). With innovation comes high prices. This cannot be avoided.
Thus…meet the continued unstability of the company called Sony Electronics.
Jack
The more I think about it, the more I think Sony is doing the right thing with the $3000-$3500 FF NEX…its the only way to slowly chip away at Canikon.
To be honest, its getting me a little excited….
Even though I cant justify the cost myself.
Jack
If a FF reflex can be sold sub 2000$, a FF mirrorless should be sold sub 1500$…
What’s the point about a 2500$ FF NEX? Want it minimal? Ok, let’s take a Nex3 series camera and let’s put a FF sensor inside it, new circuits and voilat 🙂
If Sony is needing help on what to produce in order to sell units… Maybe this will help… 36MP Alpha Mount with all the normal newer alpha features (- Plastic Mount and new flash mount(Dreaming)) in a Dslr version and a Slt Version Sub $2995.00… And Ill take one of each…
Will NEVER own a NEX…
Dear Sony, if you want to compete with Canikon, encircle them, why frontal attack. If you want to go premium, like-Tesla-model, give us Medium Format NEX. You won’t be compared to 6D, D600. You will have your flagship. You’ll get those Leica shooters.
If you still want to make NEX FF, make sensors changeable. And what about those organic sensors?
I cant imagine … A person walk into a camera store… A N-word D800 and this FF Nex both sitting on a shelf, Both sub $3,000 and someone purchase this FF Nex…
Just cant imagine someone being that dumb….
Just because you can’t imagine it, or don’t want it, in no way means no one else does.
Even if just 13% of those who see the two sitting there purchase the NEX, it will be a huge success for Sony.
You have to remember, the Nikon is going to sell better regardless of how the NEX is priced. The FF NEX is a long term struggle for market share from PROs, not immediate sales from enthusiasts. They usually dont buy from camera stores.
If nothing more, the FF NEX will gain a lot of attention from amatures and enthusiats, sitting there on the shelf next to the Nikon. Thats good PR.
Jack
I think to launch this product without a viewfinder would be a great mistake, the price means that probably older, wealthier people will (in the main) be buying it. These people cannot see what is going on on a screen without putting their glasses on, which they don’t want to do both for practical reasons and their vanity !
They are also not that comfortable with touch screens for the same reasons.
So – viewfinder essential !
As to price, well who knows what will sell – I wish Sony luck
As a A700 user who also has a NEX5N + electronic viewfinder I can commend the NEX to the house, don’t know why people are so anti, the NEX certainly isn’t perfect, far from it, but the size & quality shines through !
Nobody (almost) except Marketing Depts need 36MP – in my opinion & no offence intended.
Q
+1 very very few people need over about 20 good megapixels.
This is always going to be a premium product. Sony need to have faith and just go for it- if they build it, and just set their price, people WILL buy it. Asking a bunch of people what they WANT to pay beforehand is ludicrous- of COURSE everyone is going to say they don’t want it to be expensive! It will be a totally different story when there’s a shiny new FF NEX out there and everyone wants it and will justify it’s price if it means enough to them…
Just a thought- why not simply make the RX-1 interchangeable lens and stick a nice VF in it??
The RX1 is a little deceptive; the lens itself protrudes far into the body, in fact, very close to the image sensor. The lens itself is very specialized to make this work. I think it would require a major redesign to make it an interchangeable lens model – probably upping the cost of it well over NEX9 costs.
Quasimodo
Only a “marketing” department needs a camera with 36MP
Seriously?
you believe that?
not expensive, not cheap – right in the middle like the nex series – and i will buy it.
evf is a must.
Time is the problem. I’m not going to wait till 2014.
+1
Put a full frame sensor in a NEX-3, NEX-5, NEX-6, NEX-7 and charge an additional $400 for it.
There doesn’t need to be a lot of other features, just support for the full frame. $400 should more than cover the costs for a larger sensor and upgraded CPU horsepower etc. The real costs on sony’s side are the engineering costs an the question of whether there’s enough volume.
Sony should be going for the jugular here– they have a chance to KILL nikon and canon with this.
They should take their Playstation approach and sell the system CHEAP but make the money on the platform by selling profitable lenses and accessories, and getting people invested.
This is a wide open opportunity, and they can lock up a lot of marketshare here without even losing money be selling it cheap/slightly above cost….
Nobody else has a competing camera right now…. but they will eventually.
Look at the advantage that Panasonic and Olympus enjoy from being to the market 2 years ahead of Sony…. even with their poor execution and distribution and smaller sensor they’re still doing ok, because a lot of consumers got locked into that platform and are invested in lenses.
This is a “give away the razor, sell the razorblades” type setup. Give away the camerabody, sell the lenses and accessories and you give people an incentive to invest in the platform, and once they have a lot of accessories and lenses, then you can start price discrimination with some really high end and high end models to take the cream of the market (while leaving the low end prosumers a reasonable system to use which doesn’t have the best features.)
Huge opportunity here.
+10000
“..but he also makes the point that in fields where companies thrive on innovation, placing too much emphasis on what customers want destroys a company’s ability to be different.”
https://www.helpscout.net/blog/why-steve-jobs-never-listened-to-his-customers/
NO! Limiting the design and ‘cutting it down’ is a recipe for disaster and won’t attract people away from DSLRs or Leica/Fuji, etc.- I’d buy the more expensive model, but NOT this one. I want a viewfinder and all features, and at this kind of premium price I don’t want compromises. I definitely want a viewfinder, etc.
Think about what the votes on this actually represent- neither poll has a control question i.e. it doesn’t specify who, out of the people voting, actually spend that much on a camera at all! In other words, many of the people voting might not buy any FF camera, or pro-priced camera, so their no vote means little in this market segment and skews the vote! There should be a control question in the vote which asks something like ‘would you buy any FF, or Pro camera in these price ranges’ etc.? It may well be that, out of the readership of this forum, 13% is actually a very healthy percentage of buyers in the Pro price-bracket?
Anyway, personally, I’d spend more on the ‘proper’ model from yesterday’s vote, but would NOT spend £2500 on a ‘cut down’ model. Why not simply have two FF models, one with all the features at a premium price, one with ‘cut down’ features and cheaper, very much like the NEX-7 and the NEX-5R? Surely that would be the best approach?
If nokia can give us a 40mp cellphone camera and nikon can give us a 36mp sony sensor camera and sony has more sensor patents than anyone then why the #@*”* is sony trying to sell us a 24mp piece of. €√\|©¶
Have you ever heard of pixel density?
If not, have a google at it.
Because it’s not aimed at people like you who clearly don’t even know enough to know why that’s a ludicrous thing to say.
Why is the$6000 Nikon D4 only 16 MP?
Exactly. I shoot Nikon – the D4 and D800E. They each are so different, and lend themselves well to specific purposes. Megapixels are important, but when one goes up, something else always goes down…
Everything in physics and optics is a tradeoff.
Jack
its rather a problem of technology. Theoretically its not difficult to have viable high pixel density sensors. You just need to build a cooling module behind the sensor. Moore law will deal with the file size.
With todays technology, that would result in a really huge camera with extremely high energy demands. But we are far from reaching the physical limits yet and things will continue to get better.
2500 is not cheap! A box without finder is no camera!
What we need is a NEX 6 with FF-sensor and an EVF with improved resolution, not more, not less. In the price range of 1500 to 1800 USD. This would become a big success, sure!
Some of you point out that high mp is a trade off.
Give us one high mp camera and let us make that trade off. The rest of you can still keep your low resolution camera. Give the peaple that actually need high res at least one camera to choose.
Being over fifty has advantages and disadvantages. Higher disposable income is nice. Difficulty reading, not so much. A lack of viewfinder with diopter adjustment is a deal breaker for those of us who have graduated to reading glasses.
People who want FF cameras want a built-in viewfinder, period. We also need better battery life, I had to use 5 batteries for the RX1 for a full day at Disneyland. Sony needs to have good price and high quality line up of primes that can match Fuji before I will think about buying a FF NEX, or at least some good lenses like the 16-50mm F2.8 DT quality at that price point.
I would buy it if it is the 32 megapixel version, otherwise I am most likely to pass (i make rather sizable enlargements of 2+ meters wide for corporate use).
Maybe we just need to buy this $500 gadget to make the NEX series into Medium Format Cameras, skip the FF format altogether!
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2013/03/06/rhinocam-promises-to-turn-your-sony-nex-into-a-medium-format-digital-camera
Intersting concept.
Jack
A least give us the same pixel density as the nex 7 thats 54mp for a ff sensor.
Why $2500?
D600 FF is only $500 more than D7100 APS-C,
so NEX-9 should be $1500 or so.
I have multiple Canon and Nikon DSLRs and lots of associated gear. If I could have performance equal to or better than a recent-vintage APS-C DSLR with a pro-quality 17-50/2.8 in a smaller, lighter package, I’d buy it. Currently, I can’t. I don’t know if the benefits of full-frame will ever be worth the added size/weight/cost, to me.
A camera w/o a viewfinder is no camera for me.
Andrea
Do a survey
Ask people that what resolution they want
include various square and conventional resolutions and formats
Let sony know what we want.
Do you really think the Sony folks in Japan read this blog?
Probably they don’t. Or, better, someone belonging to the company may even do it, but they will not care about what noisy and stinky Westeners think…
I responded YES yesterday and NO today. I would pay more for a GREAT NEX than I would for the RX1, especially from what has been described so far. But I would surely not pay 2500 for a NEX with a reduced feature set. I was an early adopter of the NEX-7 when the price raised eyebrows and I have been 85% happy with my decision (the 15% is what they left out). And I have TWO of them plus a 5N. I would gladly pay the extra money for a NEX that was truly at a professional level. So..YES, I would pay more than $3,000 and NO, I would not pay less for a cheapened version. Doesn’t make sense. Get me something that will work better than a D800 and do more then a D800 and I’ll pay more. TMO.
I guess the problem here is not topping the D800 per se, but the entire Nikon lens system as a whole. As good as the Nex9 may be, Sony’s past does not bode well for the lenses that should make the system shine…
The NEX-9 will definitely need all the goods (Ultra high-res EVF, faster Phase+Contrast focus, ISO Hotshoe, next-gen BIONZ processor, WiFi, Customizable UI, and 3 dial controls) for a $2500 body. If it were a $2000 body the EVF could be omitted but it would require a smart accessory port in addition to the ISO hotshoe. EVF mounting in the hotshoe would not be acceptable. No built in flash would be necessary for the NEX-9 at any price.
Alpha is not NEX. The two systems have almost nothing in common.
Sony – and sonyALPHArumours.com – are like schizophrenics with a NEX personality that is slowly killing the Alpha personality.
Good!
I will purchase no camera without a viewfinder.
Full frame without any of the other fancy junk though… Count me in.
no to wifi
no to gps
no to fancy scenes modes,
I guess what I’m looking for is a camera 🙂
Just make it simple!
If it looks like a NEX-7, I dont think Sony can put a price tag over 2k on it!
On the other hand, I think Sony can manufacture a ‘Delux’ model with wood & leather trims and a ‘Hasselblad’ or ‘Contax’ brand and price it as high as Leica!
Nonetheless, put back IBIS in the body, I dont mind a thicker body – but I dont want to have extra optical elements for IS inside the lenses!
no real shooter want a nex period
No, ofcourse, not! NEX is a type of leasure photography, with light and sexy toys.
I still cannot justify why it is more expensive than a RX1. Unless you do it this way: produce a RX1, take away the zeiss glasses and chuck it into the bin, machine the metal plate then you put a new E-mount up there.
That’s what i might do after waiting for so long and the RX1 second hand price will fall by the time you have the nex-ff.
Otherwise i just get a metabone adapter problem solved.
for 2,500 I feel like it should be full featured! 2,500 for a camera that, besides a larger sensor, has less features then the step below it witch cost less then half of that……are you kidding me. That’s like if a car came with every feature you could imagine and a v6 engine putting out 300 hp and selling for 50,000. But then the same company releases the same car but with non of the features but a v8 engine putting out 375 hp……would you really even consider that. I Love Sony’s cameras….but I would much rather buy a nex-7n if I wanted/needed mirror-less. Besides that, 95% of people that want a full frame camera don’t even know why and would in all reality probably be better off with the asp-c
If Sony read a single comment here read this one please.
Apple computer are doing better than Sony. They do not compete on price, the compete on quality. People aspire to their products because they look, feel and work better than the competition.
Apple once looked up to Sony.
If you build a FF NEX which is one of the best cameras money can buy its cost will be irrelevant. Anyone wanting the best, whatever they currently shoot, will come to Sony for what you have.
Furthermore:
1. Consider dropping the NEX name. Sony has a strong brand and also owns the Konica name. NEX ceases to mean anything when it’s on cameras 10X apart in price with different size sensors.
2. An EVF is essential.
3. IBIS will make mounting and using Leica glass on the NEX-9 easier than using it on a Leica. That alone will lead many Leica owners to experiment with Sony as a back-up. Leica owners are the richest camera owners in the market. It’s a great market to tap and highly influential.
4. When you have made the best camera you can make a cheaper one. Start at the top though, crawling up from the bottom is harder.
5. Accept you’re not trusted yet. You don’t produce a full line of professional lenses and use a mount which is new compared to the 20-80 year lifespans of the big guns. Making NEX a universal digital back for other lenses lowers the risk while you prove yourself. We all want to buy lenses we can leave to our children. Not curiosities that get left behind. Many of us still see APS-C Zeiss glass as a very risky investment which may well be left behind.
“1. Consider dropping the NEX name.”
Not so sure. NEX should be perceived as the best system in CSC department. It is almost there currently. However, without FF icon it will be quickly overshadowed by fast and slick 4/3 and 1″ toys.
Sorry but: Sony is not Apple.
If Sony were Apple, there would be more product consistency, and more care for the actual use of the product.
All Sony products would be part of an ecosystem, where any product enhances the use of the other products.
The new Nex9 would be immediately and fully compatible with all Sony camera accessories and lenses (both alpha and nex) without adaptors.
Sony computers and cellphones could be used in combination with the camera.
The camera could be enhanced through third-party accessories and apps.
Warranty and support would be universal, no matter how and where you bought the camera.
Now, let’s go back to Sony: disrupting old accessories, with a quirky and closed OS, stopping third-party accessories to be functional, no connection to other Sony products (and, besides: no lenses, no accessories at launch)…
So: only for Leica users on a budget???
My suggestion:
NEX9- Upscaled NEX 7N/R
A99 menu system w/quick navi
$1,499.00 Body Only.
That, would sell.
Carl Garrard
I would buy 2 of those!
Let me add- that menu system in all NEX cameras would NOT appeal to enthusiasts NEARLY as much as a quick navi menu system found on the A99.
The fact that Sony has kept the same crappy 6 folder menu system in NEX is pure stubborn arrogance at this point. Everybody has complained about it that need be.
“Stop that, it’s silly!” Monty Python
Personally, at $2500 I’d buy the a99 instead because for a couple hundred more I get far more and have a already established lens system. No waiting for new lenses to drip out of the Sony R&D group as they have with the current NEX lens system.
With a question such as this one if it originated from the Sony group it just screams Sony has no grasp on the state of the worlds economy and they have very unrealistic views about the perceived value of their product in the market place. Gentlemen, if you are reading this look at your competitors and their current trends to pricing. If you don’t you will soon see nothing but their rear ends as they leave you standing in the marketplace with your over priced cameras and accessories without a viable consumer base to buy them.
You really need to understand what prices the market will bare and where Sony is perceived in the still photography marketplace so you can effectively price your products accordingly. I understand Sony as a whole is hurting financially but you will lose your still photography customer base if you try and keep the corporation afloat by overcharging for your still photography products.
I never thought I would be considering changing systems at my age and I have been a loyal Minolta/Sony since the KM A1 but it has been on my mind. It is not because of your product quality or innovation but more a uncertainty of whether you will keep your customer base and be in business later on with some of your current ways of doing business. I don’t want to be the last guy holding on to a Betamax again and as we all know it did not do well in the consumer group not because of quality or performance but because of the Sony business plan. Live and learn guy’s and be smarter this time!
The new nex should have in-body image stabilization.
It should fully support legacy lenses. (Focus confirmation and image stabilization support for older mf lenses, like olympus and pentax do)
A powerful video codec like found in GH2, GH3 cameras (high detail, high bitrate, no moire/aliasing)
Clean 4:2:2 HDMI output
Priced around $2000
Then I’d be all over it 🙂
I’d pay close to that for the 7n (crop sensor) as long as it has the features you list..
Should be $1500-$2000
I’d pay up to $3000 if the NEX 9 had a few specific features, including an amazing viewfinder, high speed flash sync (1/250, preferably higher), 30-36 MP sensor, and a set of fast compact prime lenses. I’d like one ultrawide, a 28-35mm, an amazing contrasty 50/1.4, and maybe something longer if it could still be compact. I don’t care too much about autofocus – as long as it’s decent I’m happy. I also want manual controls – aperture ring, shutter speed, exposure comp, and good manual focus on the lenses – well dampened and with a hard infinity stop. The end. I see no reason not to expect these things when I could get a nikon d600 for $2100 with lens. If Sony reaches above $3000 the camera better be amazing, because that kind of price will send me reaching for a Speedbooster as a stopgap solution while I save for a Leica M with a hopefully upgradable sensor.
I want to use it with M mount lenses so no viewfinder would be a deal breaker for me.
I would buy a amazing ff, with pro level features for 4000. I would not buy a normal ff nex for 2000.
Just ff but otherwise nex as it is now is not something I would buy. I see no reason.
no need to be cheap but go the best with Leica like quality.
I just bought the A99 so a FF NEX for 3.000-4.000 USD is not attractive, BUT I’ve been talking with several professional Canon and Nikon users recently who have been seriously looking to switch to Sony but want to hang on to their current lenses. They would love a FF NEX with image quality and features on par with the A99!
It’s pretty easy, actually.
If Sony wants me to replace my current high-end studio FF DSLR setup, compel me to do so. Attract me in ways that DSLRs just can’t. Make me drool and beg for one. Differentiate! Differentiate!! Differentiate!!!
If Sony wants me to add a FF mirrorless to my walk-around location and street photography kit, it had better be cheap because the current APS-C NEX do a very fine job at 500USD to 1000USD. Cost! Cost!! Cost!!!
1999$ with VF, nothing fancy besides a built in VF (a must!)
Changed my mind, i wont pay more then 1499$
I would want an NEX 6/7 type camera with a full frame sensor at that price point. Stick in the same AF system and sell it for $2000-$2500 and I’d buy one ASAP.
INMHO teh answer to the right price is:}
Around same price as D600. Given that I already have FF F mount lenses and I´ll need to buy new FF mount lenses (good ones not just “anything”) forget kit lenses, forget video, forget nonsense things, forget even extreme high MPix, just plain good pictures with good dynamic range, a decent Mpix count 16 to 20.
“Thats is all” be a real game changer.
I just want the light going straight to the sensor without any semi silvered mirrors in the way. Don’t care how small the camera is. In fact why not make it big enough to include the apparently gorgeous screen from the new Experia z? It nonsensical that smartphones have bigger, brighter higher res screens than cameras.
Nex-7n with clean HDMI out, and a metabones adapter that works with sony alpha lenses, and I would be set..
Totally agree with Dean.
My suggestion to Sony:
If you want to gain your long lost supremacy in electronic world, listen to the engineer and not marketing manager or any other greedy manager within.
Greed will got you nowhere.
Keep NEX momentum, priced FF NEX AT LEAST the same as lowest price FF DSLR at the time of launch (Lower price is better, of course).
Feature has to be better than NEX-6 (standard hotshoe, built in Flash, better EVF, better WiFi, built in GPS), higher megapixel is not that crucial.
If you worry about newcomer and their perception of megapixel number, start new marketing scheme that emphasize on pixel sensitivity and pixel size, and not megapixel number (although I believe NEX-9 target audience won’t be this naive).