It’s Christmas time and what bad administrator would I be if I wouldn’t give you an SR5 rumor 🙂
1) These last two weeks I contacted all my best sources and they now all(!) confirmed that the next Sony Full Frame camera will not be a new SLT camera. It will be a Full Frame mirrorless camera!
2) Plan of a FF SLT release in 2013 have been dropped to fully focus the development resources on that FF mirrorless camera. Sony’s main priority is to create a real High End camera. A camera that can have all the functions and capabilities of a DSLR (that means for example fast AF). Sony sees that camera as the one that should bring back some significant interests on Sony FF system.
3) The camera is still in the final stage of development. We can expect the release of the cameras by end 2013 at earliest but early 2014 sounds more likely for now.
4) The camera has some key tech not seen on any Sony camera yet. I am still working on this rumor to get some detailed info. So stay tuned!
5) The camera is a bit bigger than the current [shoplink 8454]Sony NEX-7[/shoplink] and not that much different in terms of the design.
6) The camera has a native E-mount and both E-mount and A-mount lenses will be fully supported.
7) One of the trusted sources said that Sony is right now testing two different prototypes. One features a 24 megapixel and the other camera features a new 30-32 Megapixel sensor.
In summary, in about one year the NEX world will expand into the High End Pro market. And this may be a bad news for the [shoplink 16137 ebay]Leica M system[/shoplink]! I know you have many questions about lenses, specs and so on. I am working on that and as you imagine it’s not easy to get specs about a camera which features are being tested and changed every couple of weeks. So what can we expect in 2013? we will have plenty of new NEX and SLT (APS-C) cameras and lenses. And I hope Sony engeneers will manage it to announce that NEX FF by Christmas 2013! But as I said, it all depends from the development speed. As Sony stated a couple of times, E-mount FF is a “challenge”. A challenge that Sony has no worry to take!
Now a short question:
[poll id=”133″]
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
331 Responses
My number 1 worry is how it would work with e-mount lenses. I’m planning on buying the Zeiss 12mm e-mount, so I’m just wondering if the camera will handle lenses for aps-c the way the Nikon cameras do, or will it show a a black circle bordering the entire frame.
Uhm, isn’t the answer obvious? NEX-VG900, Alpha 900 and Alpha 99 all went to APS-C mode automtaically, if a APS-C lens is detected. So why shouldn’t a NEX-9 do it exactly the same way?
It works even better than Nikon cameras or the Alpha 900 do, as the EVF automtically only shows the final image area.
+1
All Sony fullframe cameras automatically crop to aps-c format when aps-c lenses are attached. Why should this camera work different?
I have been shooting NEX-7 since april. Primarily with FF-lenses for future FF-compatibility. Only E-lens I use is Zeiss 24/1.8. I plan to buy an RX1, and keeping my NEX-7 body, if I can afford it. Shoot the helle out of it for a year, ans see what happens on the NEX-FF-front. I love these times.
hope its not an up selling of a NEX 7 with just full frame sensor inside. 🙁
the Nex-7 the 3.8μm sensor is obviously a worse performance than the NEX-6 the 4.8μm sensor.
further, the relevant lenses in the Nex-7 got into worse performance, especially the imaging in corners.
Canon 35mm camera taken a 6μm sensor is a very wise layout. (I am not a Canon camera lover)
Within next 3 years, we still need,
35mm format camera —– with a 6μm sensor, optimum selection.
APS-c camera —— with a 4.8μm sensor, optimum selection.
http://www.photozone.de/sony_nex/720-sony50f18nex?start=2
As already mentioned the 24 megapixel sensor of the Sony NEX 7 seems to have a rather difficult characteristic especially regarding its resolution capabilities at the image corners. This behavior has been confirmed by user observations in the meanwhile (feel free to google). This is a bit unfortunate because we feel that the sensor shouldn’t have such a deep impact on the lens quality. The lens quality will be somewhat better on Sony’s 16 megapixel sensor.
Actually, such a thing would be perfect!
I agree. Love everything about my NEX-7 but want better performance.
I hope there’s no corner smearing a la VG900.
Sony is aware of that issue.
So they will abandon A-mount. No new lenses. People now investing in the A99 will be disappointed. Anyway, I do think this is the right decision, but they should have made it one year ago!
E-mount??? That is the wrong decision IMHO. They need to develop new FF lenses anyway, why use a mount that’s not optimized for the needs of a FF system? No space for IBIS, too close flange back distance (challenge for corner IQ, bigger lenses, smaller bodies).
Anyway, the biggest challenge will be the lenses. At the pace they go, it will take 5 years for the new system to be relevant against current FF offerings.
How can you read that much into this? Are you always the doom and gloom type? They already have a new FF A-mount, so this is good that they should develop an E-mount FF since it’s more versatile. In no way that they would drop the whole A-mount system altogether; it’s a more mature system after all.
Point 6, does that mean no adaptor needed for both mounts? Or it comes with an alpha mount adaptor?
adapter.
Do they plan to develop an A-mount brother, with ergonomic body? Like A77 was a brother of the NEX7.
That I don’t think it will happen.
So they ditched A-mount? 🙁
Sony is pathetic.
You are kidding right ? A99 just released not long ago. Which world do you live in ?
M, you are the one kidding. Serious people set up plans for a bit longer than today, this week, or even: this year.
LOL, obviously you’re the delusional one. One rumor of a FF next year and you think they will ditch the A-mount. Just go back to your Canikon.
hybrid a+e mount please, else dun even release it sony.
A “hybrid A + E mount” is an E mount with an LAE adapter. There is no other possibility, except some kind of sliding panel, which would be expensive and awkward.
Anyone who uses only A mount lenses can leave the adapter on all the time. Those like me who own no A mount lenses and do not plan to ever use A mount lenses can leave it off.
Not at all. Hybrid mount is not E mount with Adaptor.
How would a hybrid mount work without an adapter? You need the defined distance to the sensor, which is longer on A-mount. Just think :)…
Move the sensor.
Moving the sensor is one idea, but it would need a very precise mechanism to avoid issues with front/back focus.
Moreover, when using an e-mount lens, where does the A-mount lens mount go? It would be in the way.
Exactly. I have no idea why people keep burping about a “hybrid mount” since the LAEA adapters already does that and even more since LAEA2 adds PDAF to the party. Sony has two proprietary mounts on their stills cameras today, A and E-mount. Both works fine with APS-C and FF sensors, but they differ in flange-to-sensor distance, and the LAEA is the bridge.
+1
Will it have in-body stabilization for A mount users? Also, sorry, it’d have to have a hell of a great sensor for me to stay at 24 megapixels, and lose stabilization. One step forward, one step backward.
Now, if we are talking about a 50+ megapixel sensor, it could be another ball game. However, this is just not for me.
Not sure yet. But I think there is no in body stabilization.
No stabilization? They might as well just say they’re not supporting A mount, because you need in body stabilization to make them fully functional. Is this the only FF coming to market in the next year? I’m NOT going to buy it – and am pissed off. F*** you Sony. How can you be pleased about this Andrea – what the hell are you thinking?
What’s stopping you?
Stooping me from not buying it? What are you trying to say William – get your thoughts straight.
+1 Rob
I don’t care **** about tiny compacts with E-mount. Even if by some fat chance it offers AF that can be compared with entry-level DSLR. I need real tool that’s ergonomic, and can be nicely controlled withouth struggle with tiny, crippled body like in every single mirrorless on a market (yes, I tried Fuji X Pro and OMD, not even half as good as A77 or A99 in terms of ergonomics).
I also don’t need nor want any FF E-mount lenses. I alredy have complete collection of FF lenses tailored for whatever I need and have NO plans to use lenses through adaptors. Even suggesting that pros will use Zeiss ZA lenses for quality works throuh adaptors is ridicioulus. We’ve bought into A mount for native ZA lenses, NOT to play with toy adaptors and ******* E-mount.
Why is a LA-EA1/2 a toy adapter? The LA-EA1 even does not add ANY optical thing in between, so you get FULL 100% quality of your Zeiss lenses.
The reactions seem to be along the lines of thinking that people will be forced to shoot with their lenses adapted to E mount, but Sony has a current full frame A mount camera in the A99, as evolutionary and unexciting as it may be.
While it seems we’re looking at at least another two years until Sony’s next full frame A mount camera (a wait that I’m not very excited about either), nothing is suggesting that no more are coming.
Lafote, the LA-EA1 does not give 100% quality autofocus. Actually, it’s pretty bad for serious shooting.
Not so much a problem if one manual focuses, but the NEX-6/7’s EVFs leave something to be desired.
Lofote, if you look at the issue from this perspective then we have nothing to discouss.
Carl – but the investnment into a pro system is something with longer perspective then 2-3 years. I want to keep my buisness going, not run to the bank for loan needed to swap the system. And if Sony really ditches A-mount then every day spent with A-mount gear means stuff I drops in value extremly quickly.
+1 Rob, +1 LensIsAll
I have 13 a-mount lenses, 3 a-mount bodies and 4 Sony flashes. A small compact body will not really help me in the field (events, weddings, even studio work).
I really don’t understand why people with A-mount gear appear to feel so threatened by this. SONY are not about to drop A-mount. They have just released quite possibly the best DSLR on the market in the form of the A99.
If you have the need for an existing SLT DSLR system – because you shoot studio or weddings, then obviously this E-mount camera is probably not going to interest you!!
But it’s not a reason for SONY not to chase other markets and build this second system – SONY are quite capable of engaging with different photographer’s needs simultaneously.
What we do not understand is…
How sony could seem to promote revolutionary things and try to get people onboard, then leave them hanging high and dry after they bought it.
Then chase after another new thing…
Yes, it could get people to spend more but its nothing short of just disappointment on people who understands…
Do you have a lot of problems holding the camera steady ?
I use almost entirely unstabilised lenses, and get sharp images from the NEX 5N. A FF sensor should give better image quality at high ISO settings, making stabilisation less necessary.
have you tried your nex 5 with adapter + A-mount FF lens like CZ or G lens? i think you will really thanks if that camera have IS on it
Seriously . you need to check in to a hospital right away
I don’t get you. Just think a few seconds, how in-body-stabilization would be made possible in a body that is only a bit bigger than the sensor. It is simply NOT POSSIBLE. No need to swear… its pure physics, not a “Sony marketing decision” or whatever you think it is.
Lofote, maybe you mean it SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU. Do you have the plans and dimensions of the prototype available? People who think like you will never get across big constraints. I guess there’s a chance there can be in-body stabilization.
Best congrats Andrea and all friends!
Looks great! 🙂 I’m starting to save some money. And I certainly hope that it will come with multiple quality/fast lenses.
I won’t even vote – 32 megapixels is not a significant difference from 24, and I just can’t see buying yet another 24 megapixel camera. Does Sony think they’ll be getting switchers from Nikon when they already have the best sensor in the world, and would step down in resolution? Crazy crazy crazy. What the hell are you thinking Sony?
Obviously you are the only mental guy round here. Just because Sony doesnt make your fantasy camera you go all whining in the forums ? Seriously ?
I think the fact that the 30-32 sensor is new means it should have the latest technology in it compared to the 24 sensor. Of course, the 24 sensor (e.g., the A99, D600) is nothing shabby . . . it’s just that this is more than a year away. I voted 30-32.
Overall, Nex lenses are just too crappy to consider! What a waste!!!
Nice FF lenses to come. Don’t worry.
I HAVE nice FF lenses, that are now going to be nearly useless!!! What a gouge – might as well buy FF lenses from another company, and a better sensor too. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING SONY????
I’m in line with you, it is getting more and more obvious that a-mount user will have a large amount of expensive and useless Zeiss lenses.
I’ve made a 100% stop for investing in the Sony line, my problem is that my 15K$ investment in lenses is rapidly loosing value. (Zeiss and G lenses are not as valueable on APS-C sensors)
Not saying that the strategy is wrong, just leaves us in the dust.
yeahh i’m agreed with you, after heard this i will stop investing on FF sony lens. i investing on sony A-mount because they relative cheap, have high quality glass on A-mount, and IBISS, if they ditch that on future FF mirrorless what benefit left more me?, i would rather buy old sony a900 or a99 or buy other system or maybe wait FF fuji
What’s stopping you?
Ehm is it mayan calendar day today or why all the jumping to wierd conclusions ?! of course there will be new A-mount cameras next year otherwhise there wouldnt be a new 70-400 and a new 70-200 etc coming out in 2013.
We have gone from mirror -> transcluent mirror -> no mirror (not surprising).
so what has this to do with A-mount or E-mount, probably nothing at all..
there will most likly be a co-existence of both mounts…
I guess *you* the user will have to make the choise of wich one you need.
one or the other or both 😛
Definietly.
I don’t care **** about tiny compacts with E-mount. Even if by some fat chance it offers AF that can be compared with entry-level DSLR. I need real tool that’s ergonomic, and can be nicely controlled withouth struggle with tiny, crippled body like in every single mirrorless on a market (yes, I tried Fuji X Pro and OMD, not even half as good as A77 or A99 in terms of ergonomics).
I also don’t need nor want any FF E-mount lenses. I alredy have complete collection of FF lenses tailored for whatever I need and have NO plans to use lenses through adaptors. Even suggesting that pros will use Zeiss ZA lenses for quality works throuh adaptors is ridicioulus. We’ve bought into A mount for native ZA lenses, NOT to play with toy adaptors and ****** E-mount.
Kudos! for every word you wrote above… Sony should put things together and decide where to go. I also stopped investing on Sony now.
And your point is ? You dislike e-mount ? Go shoot with your Alpha cameras. Dont spit into other’s interests and quit acting like a jealous mistress because Sony is investing into E Mount.
I don’t care how much Sony is investing in Ecrap mount. I start to care when it’s made with a cost of an A mount.
I don’t understand your rage. Whats holding you from buying a Alpha 99? A NEX-9 is no thread to the A99. Isn’t it good, that Sony brings out products for different purposes and markets!? I don’t get you.
You’re missing the point here. If Sony chose it’s way to invest on E-Mount rather than developing A-Mount (which is the case now), then there’s no need to invest on A-mount. OK, A99 is a good camera but A-mount owners still suffer from the number of pro-design lenses compared to Canon and Nikon. It is really disturbing to see this news. We were expecting developments on A-mount accessories rather than seing Sony going to another direction.
Kursad Sezgin: +100!
I am with you Lofote!
The rumor above says:
“So what can we expect in 2013? We will have plenty of new NEX and SLT (APS-C) cameras and lenses.”
SLT APS-C is A-mount, so Sony invest in new A-mount SLT cameras too!
How can anyone understand this to mean that Sony does not invest in A-mount camera systems forward?
Their FF A-mount camera A99 is just released on the market, so it’s a natural step to make the developments in th APS-C A-mount cameras this time, I think!
Has IBIS made you lost the skills to shoot ? You are obviously a frigging troll. Sell away your lenses then and get lost from this site
hi troll, IBIS is really good for any situation and can use for all range lens, with a lower capability noise handle ISO in sony, IBIS is really help us to minimize photo shaking in lower ISO 🙂
“I HAVE nice FF lenses, that are now going to be nearly useless!!!”
They will not be useless. The image quality will be exactly the same as now, or maybe better if Sony’s sensor technology continues to improve. In any case, nothing stops you from using your current camera.
“What a gouge – might as well buy FF lenses from another company,”
With an E mount, you can do that too. I use mainly Nikon and Topcon lenses on my NEX.
Don Cox > I wouldn’t prefer to put my 1kg 2470CZ in front of a NEX mount because it won’t be easy to hold it through out a 4 hour photo shoot. I wouldn’t prefer to install my 580 flashgun on top for the same reason. I prefer being able to use all buttons while looking through the EVF/OVF whatever. These are not possible on NEX.
Kursad Sezgin: +100!
I totally feel for what you said.
And people here are shouting of using adapters that increases the weight and makes the whole setup even more imbalance.
gosh.
Will your lenses stop working on the A99? For goodness sake. One new thing does not spell the end of another.
Not with their current financial status.
With limited R&D funds, that could really spell the end for alot more other stuff they could have improved.
Does it mean A99 will be the last FF slt? Just bought A99 and a CZ lense couple days ago. Should I return them and wait? A-mount is meaningless if use with adaptor with no IBIS.
No of course not. Look at all the whining from A-mount users here. You think SONY are going to ditch a ready market? It’s not an either/or proposition. SONY make lots of cameras – cheap cybershots, RX100, NEX, SLT dslrs, the RX1, sensors for Olympus, Nikon and Fuji and iphone. They are quite capable of competing in more than one segment at the same time.
Just bought A99:
Looking at how things are going, a99 might well be the last FF SLT.
That’s until at least 2 years later when they release a FF mirrorless (SLR size), i hope.
Well, like some of us here, we personally reject FF NEX.
Buying it will just make you people guinea pigs for the FF mirrorless SLR 1 year later.
Wait, maybe you guys should buy it, so sony has funds for its R&D.
John Maverick:
Apparantly with the current news, it seems like they just did.
They just left their new a99 buyers hanging high and dry for at least 1-2 years.
Yes Sony makes alot of stuff, just not FF SLT, that’s why people felt cheated thus all the hate i believe.
honestly nex lens is crap 🙂 that’s why i don’t buy nex because they lens is not fast, not really good, and pricy than A-mount lens :p
Which lenses are crappy?
Why use the E-Mount for full frame? There is no space for IBIS and it’s really hard to get make lenses with little chromatic aberration.
IBIS just means you will need a “moveable” sensor. All space you need therefore is beside or behind the sensor. It would probably make the body a bit thicker , but it has nothing to do with limitations due to the E-mount.
Can somebody confirm that IBIS is (at least theoretically) possible with full frame E-mount?
There’s no technical impossibility there, it would just make the camera body somewhat bigger and the question is whether Sony would want to or not.
In lens stabilisation is cheaper for manufacturers as a great deal of customers don’t buy any stabilised lenses. With IBIS, it adds to the cost of admission irrespective of whether or not someone will use it.
Personally, I like all my lenses to be stabilised, it’s one of the few features in photography that’s close to being a free lunch. Losing IBIS and having all stabilised lenses costing, say, $150 more sounds awfully unappealing to me.
I’m not so sure. Currently the sensor in A-mount cams moves up, down, left, and right to accommodate hand shake. Look at the screen shot Andrea provided of a FF sensor in the VG900 and tell me how much space there is to move in those directions with the current E-mount without the imaging circle being affected.
Why would the choice of mount make it harder to design lenses with less chromatic aberration?
Leitz have many top class lenses with a short registration distance mount. And in any case, the registration distance sets the minimum distance from the glass to the sensor, not the maximum. A larger registration distance does make it harder to design wide angle lenses.
My hope is that the chip is optimised for high ISo performance and wideangle lenses so we can use leica mount lenses. It’s the only Sony camera I am waiting for and I am willing to pay for a small format full frame to replace the nex7.
Now that’s an interesting piece of news. But I won’t buy it unless :
1) we get a large array of good lenses
2) Sony think the ergonomics through.
1) is coming
This new sensor is puzzling. Must be better than old 36!
Here’s an idea… could they be thinking of using the 36mpx sensor cropped to 30-32mpx and stabilized using pixel-shift?
The advantage of this approach would be IBIS without the mechanical complexity and body volume. Advancements in processor power and efficiency could make it very effective.
The problem is that a small crop factor would need to be included (1.1?) which would make it just short of a true FF (not a major issue; the film-defined FF dimensions was rather arbitrary anyways). The real problem would be calculating in a 1.1x crop to existing FF lenses, making them all odd focal lengths.
I like this. Something like a twilight mode but in RAW. It can be done either in camera or externally in post-processing.
Surely wouldn’t work because the sensor would still be undergoing movement. There has to be physical movement of some kind for stabilization to work.
Time to buy a lot of Canon FD lenses 🙂
Jep, got the 85F1.2 for that reason
> 4) The camera has some key tech not seen on any Sony camera yet. I am still working on this rumor to get some detailed info. So stay tuned!
My guess is global electronic shutter. This could explain the long development lead time.
Alternatively new lens designs following the approach used by the RX1 with large corrective rear elements.
In any case it’s critical that the sensor performs with high incidence wides, so it can mount leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander type lenses. Having this market is a great jump start to early adoption. The fullframe E-mount VG900 has excellent color, but unfortunately smears the corners – probably due to refraction in the AA layer.
Interesting…. Seems a long time off though for a camera in “final development”. Yes im impatient.
yep
Perhaps they need the time to develop native lenses not the camera.
😉
Since it’ll be bigger, any chance it’ll have IBIS?
Above, Andrea said NO IBIS, which sucks.
I am not 100% sure yet about this.
Andrea, tell Sony that to get switchers, they need a 54 megapixel sensor, that’s 4k capable, with current iso values AND IN-BODY IMAGE STABILIZATION. The rest of this stuff is just incrementalization. SONY SAID THEY WANT TO RELEASE A GAME CHANGER and this piece of offal is just not going to cut it with potential switchers NOR will loyal customers buy it.
I am sure they are reading your comment now 🙂
Goddamit I feel like I’ve been stabbed in the back.
Well said, make a real game changer, Sony. Let’s have a high end camera that shows Sony knows and understands todays photographic needs.
54 megapixels on a FF? No. It would look like a snow storm at 800+.
IBIS? No. Good in a video camera. Bad in a photo camera.
PLEASE, PLEASE!!! PUT IBIS INSIDE of it!
Better hope for mirrorless A-mount then.
This is a strange decision, but it almost gives lots of clues regarding the roadmap of Sony. To my understanding;
– Sony decided to ditch usual SLR designs. This may seem like a game changer but as long as Nikon and Canon continue with current regular designs, Sony will go one step down, finding a good spot in portable camera market.
– A99 may be the last FF SLT
– E-mount lens development is not on par with A-Mount lenses yet. If you don’t support NEX FF with some very decent lenses, it would mean nothing to Sony lovers. I would never chose a FF NEX, whatever the price is, with current lens offerings.
– In one of the previous posts, it was stated that pancake lenses are in the roadmap. A FF with a pancake lens.. would that meet the performance expectation of a pro / semi-pro photographer? Don’t think so.
It is almost clear that Sony will target consumer market rather than pro/semi-pro market. I’d be glad if you can share your thoughts on these bullets above
Kursad, you make some good points. May I add one obvious one – it’s that Sony could EASILY MAKE A MIRRORLESS A MOUNT.
Well Rob, it is very easy to switch regular A-Mount to a mirrorless one but they are escaping from competition now. Wish they just developed a marketing model with a price advantage. Isn’t it obvious that A99 can not compete with D600/D800/5DMk3 with this price range? It would be a real contender if the price of A99 was $2.000 from day 1 and I’m pretty sure the cost of A99 production is well below this price.
Yep. They also can easily return back to DSLRs, but it seems like Hasselblad will be one offering A-mount DSLRs, so I doubt they will want to compete (even though most likely Hassel cameras will be in some ridicioulus price point).
TBH what troubles me most is AF performance – it was mathematically proven that it’s not possible to create on-sensor AF that’s performing as well as fully-fledged PDAF using same technology level withouth sagnificantly compromising image quality.
I hope that Sony won’t do the same mistake with AF as they did with image quality.
Just to remind you – when they got it right with A550 and later A580, when image quality was equal if not better then any competition on the market, then they gave it up and moved to SLTs, jumping below Nikon, Pentax, and even in some cases: Canon offerings in a single generation of the cameras.
Now they got great, very sensitive and accurate AF with current generation of the cameras, and it seems like they want to repeat the mistake instead of beating competition. Seems like they choose ditching all this amazing work and R&D for sub-pair on-sensor AF which again won’t give them chances against EOS or F-mount offerings.
*facepalm*
We’re missing one point here. If Sony is targeting hobbiest market (Leica / Olympus users) with lots of cash, there’s no need to put a decent AF mechanism, a clean HDMI output, a microphone and a headphone jack for these guys.
You don’t want to tell me that Leica or Olympus users will switch to Sony. It’s silly in so many ways that I even don’t know where to start. How about:
– for Leica users Sony is a TV manufacturer, not a company with tradition that’s worth spending money on. No amount of R&D or press adverts will change it.
– for Olympus users Sony has silly amount of lenses and these that exist are simply too low quality. Even if you sum up all A and E mount lenses released last 2 years it seems that Sony will catch current m4/3 state in ~5 years or more, and meanwhile m4/3 will have loads of new, specialized lenses.
True hobbyists from neither Leica nor m4/3 will be interested in NEX any time soon. Meanwhile abandonning A mount will be enormous hit in Sony PR so I doubt any self-respecting hobbyist will be investing any $ into a company with so little respect to the customers.
Number of lenses is only due to the fact that Sony was the only company building e-mount lenses so far, mft was built by multiple companies.
But there ARE highquality lenses on the market. Why do you overlook the Zeiss 24mm/F1.8? Or the 50mm/F1.8? Those easily beat any DSLR lens so far, just read all the tests and reviews. Yes, they are not FF, but it shows that it can be done on e-mount. There are even advantages due to the lower distance to the sensor which is a huge problem for wide angle lenses on A mount and all DSLR mounts.
They easily beat any DSLR lenses? Muahahaha… Poor NEX fanboys.
LensIsAll.. I’m totally inline with your comments. Sony should have;
– Developed A-Mount
– Brought a better pricing strategy for competition
– Not started a competition b/n NEX and Alpha
+1 agreed.
But i am starting to see it differently out of a sudden.
What if, the FF NEX is going to be a test bed for sony to test the market reaction?
As well as using customers as guinea pigs for feedback?
Its a good term plan where they could get money back and work done.
Then in 2014 push out FF mirrorless SLR?
Sounds like a good plan to me.
it was mathematically proven that it’s not possible to create on-sensor AF that’s performing as well as fully-fledged PDAF using same technology level withouth sagnificantly compromising image quality.
It’s been mathematically proven that bumblebees can’t fly.
“Sony could EASILY MAKE A MIRRORLESS A MOUNT”
It would be easy – they could just leave the semireflecting mirror out of any of their current SLRs – but what is the point ? Nothing is gained by the user.
You would have a camera that is just as fat and heavy as current models, and it would still only accept A mount lenses.
An E mount design similar to the NEX 7 is smaller and lighter, and can be used with a choice of thousands of lenses. There are already autofocussing adapters for Canon lenses, and very likely by the time the proposed camera appears there will be one for current Nikon lenses. And of course you can use A mount lenses if you have any.
I wouldn’t buy a Mercedes that I should buy doors from BMW, wheels from Ford, seats from Hyundai, and a sunroof from Renault. Adapters adapters… this is so silly.
Your car analogy is false.
The NEX is a sensor back to go behind any lens you want. Don’t think of the camera as the “big thing” and the lenses as subservient attachments. It is the lens that is the main part of the setup. The NEX is just there to record the image the lens gives.
Those who worry about balance with heavy lenses must think that you have to hold the camera. I hold the lens.
Exactly, the same technology that goes into producing a mirrorless FF E mount can go into a mirrorless FF A mount or in fact an APS-C mirrorless A mount. THe reason I bought my Minolta 5D and have stuck with Sony through to the the A77 is because of IBIS. I won’t buy a Sony camera without it.
Also who in their right mind would buy the A99 with this rumour coming out?
Someone like yourself who insists on having I.B.I.S.
+10000
sony will make a blunder of this, absolutely if they dumb A-mount user
how much FF E-mount lens ready for this? and how about the pice? i think the lens is more more pricy than before.
Should I return my A99? Just bought it couple days ago
NO, please don’t return it! I will take it – how much?
Maybe it’s the last excellent A-mount body for several months to years with IBIS….
don’t, a99 is really good camera, you still can make a good photo or video on it. high iso is good too
I know A99 is superb. But I am new to Sony, just bought the A99 and 2470z for it. If they are going to dump A-mount user, that means you will get less product and support in the future and there will be no point to put more investment in A-mount lens on it. I don’t care much about the body (can upgrade every coupld years and consider cheap relative to the lenses) so investment in lens is more of a concern. Better to put my money on the E-mount from beginning because they all have ILIS designed to use with NEX.
It is sad that Sony has finally made an A99 that can complete with canikon, and a SR5 of FF NEX after 3 months of A99 release killed its sales.
@Just Bought A99
i can feel you bro, i have cz 24-70 and cz 135mm and some FF lens.. i was plann to buy a99 too, but after heard this news i feel sick
i think sony still make a lens for A mount, and rebuild their line up lens to match with their mirrorless FF. with adapter the A-mount lens still can use on it. but if it’s doesn’t have IBIS/IS on camera, A-mount lens will lose their benefit/advantage.. why we buy expensive adapter A-mount if we can’t have IBIS on it? so waste
i hope sony make FF mirrorles with IBIS/ on camera like olympus do in their m4/3
They should make a new bigger E(plus)-mount, with a little bigger flange distance, it would be very difficult to have good image quality with current E-mount and FF sensor.
“it would be very difficult to have good image quality with current E-mount and FF sensor.”
Why?
The lens can be at any distance from the sensor that the lens designer chooses. For example, it could be optically identical to some existing FF design for A mount. The mount sets the minimum distance from the sensor, not the maximum.
What sets the maximum is the constant demands from some quarters for “pancake” lenses. In general, FF zoom lenses will be bigger than APS-C lenses; but an f/2.8 or 3.5 prime 50mm can be quite small.
If you don’t mind about the size of a lens, there is absolutely nothing to prevent to best possible lenses being used with an E mount.
+1
Does it mean A99 will be the last FF slt? Just bought an A99 and a CZ lenses couple days ago. Should I return ithem and wait? And A-mount lens will be become useless if just by adaptor and no IBIS?
I suggest go out and make photography with your great camera and lenses!!! There is no camera Shanri-la nor Nirvana – there will always be improved cameras coming….. 🙂
Guess Sony want to be like Olympus was in the film age. Small compact cameras. I’m not impressed, as I don’t want a small camera. Sony please make a camera that fit may big hands.
Is it at all possible that they want to compete in both small camera and large camera markets? NEX users never sounded whiney about the great SLT and A99 cameras, why are A-mount so resentful?
Neither 24 nor 36. It should have a foveon type sensor.
Now that would make people interested.
As long as you don’t want to shoot above ISO 400.
I really wonder how they are planning to put headphone jack, microphone input, accessory shoe, DC IN, HD output, USB port, vertical grip connector, gps, 2 SD-card slots, remote connector, external flash connector into a small NEX body.. without these connectors, this new gadget won’t fit in High End Pro market but rather go into lost-of-cash hobbiest market.
Nex 7 has almost all of these.
Almost is not enough.. a pro-photographer would certainly need to put a 580 speedlight on top of his camera and you know what.. 580 is almost larger than NEX7. And install a 1kg 2470CZ along with F58AM flash.. voila.. there you go.. the weirdest looking, unbalanced camera ever 🙂
Really ?? A pro photographer has to mount a 580 flash else hes not pro ? Thanks for making my day brighter. ….
Go, shoot a session in a large hall and then you’ll see that GN58 flashes are something you really want and need. Every wedding photographer I know got GN58 or 60 flash.
If that’s funny for you then go doing whatever you are doing, but stop laughing from things you have no clue about.
Mr.M.. why do you need to be rude? It is very clear if you read my words again. If you try to install a flashgun and a good lens (rather than pancakes) on a NEX body, you can’t even hold it properly.
You do need a big flash for weddings and functions, but I think it is better to mount this beside the camera rather than on top. Most really powerful (but portable) flash guns come with a bracket.
So the rumor goes the Full Frame will be bigger than NEX-7.
This is a camera I would love to have, now I use a 5D mkII and a NEX-5N as second body.My main photography is macro but I can use Canon lenses like the MP-E on NEX via adapter.
I would get rid of the 5D mkII when this comera comes out, reflex cameras are not needed unless you need superfast AF or Big tele lenses. One thing I would love to see is cable release, I hate IR remotes
My dream camera:
24-36 FF mpx
EVF
Fully articulated touch screen (rotatory screen)
cable release
2000$
I guess it will be more like 3000$
I strongly agree on the cable release. The IR remote is not nearly as good as a cable, and it needs batteries.
The RX1 has a proper cable release socket, so it can be done.
Maybe the end 2013/2014 release timeline is to accommodate the development of the ‘foveon’ type sensor that Sony has in the oven?
5) The camera is a bit bigger than the current Sony NEX-7 and not that much different in terms of the design.
That would be great, I really like the Tri Navi on the 7.
I’m still hoping for IBIS, weather sealing, very good glass and more MP’s.
I want a high end Sony NEX 7 FF and I’m willing to pay top dollar for such a camera.
Thanks Andrea, and happy holidays for all SAR readers.
I’ll be 1st in the queue to get one!
It’s a good news and I personally hope thta in this stage of development Sony will consider to develop an adapter for ALPHA lenses FF with translucent technology.
As Sony has its full frame camera just NOW: It is the VG900 which suffers of the lack of an adapter of this kind.
It’s strange that Sony doesnt consider this opportunity to add value of alpha mount lenses product line as ONLY alpha mount FF lens could be used on FF Nex cameras including NOW the VG900 with all features ON and not as now it happens working only in manual with no advantages over other mount systems like Nikon o Canon usable with adpter in manual mode
I am not amused! I have an A Mount Camera with nice Zeiss lenses and I constantly need to suffer from Sony’s changes in direction? So A Mount get’s postponed – again! Or they might even give it up entirely in the future – great!
I don’t want a Nex, I don’t want an adaptor, I don’t want to mount lenses like my 24-70z (approx. 1 kg) on a tiny Body! All I want is IBIS, Wheather Sealing, Alpha Menue, top AF in a state of the art body/sensor to mount my lenses on – now and in the future!
Probably time to switch to a more predictable provider where it makes sense to invest in lenses…
There will be plenty of new A-mount cameras and lenses in 2013. Don’t worry! The only thing that we will likely not get is an A-mount FF. But we have the A99 already or not?
Sony said they wanted to make a game changer. The A99 is not a game changer. It has a few advantages, but not enough to make a difference in the marketplace. Sony needs to bring out a significant change in an alpha model that’s FF – and screw the stinking slt. Go mirrorless or go home. Also, kill the MF companies by putting out a 54 megapixel camera, which will create the mystique needed to capture the imagination of the camera world. Throw in 4k capabilities, and THEN you’ll see some switchers. Anyhthing less is just wanking – or the work of the timid. Has Sony lost their warrior spirit? I think so.
which is totally fine, I am just concerned that this might be the last one. Just not a great feeling when you buy a € 2k lens and you are not sure whether you will have a state of the art body in 4-5 years avilable to mount the lens on!
All A-mount lenses will be fully compatible and useable on the E-mount mirrorless. I would have no trouble buying a good A-mount lens.
sure but I don’t wan’t a Nex I want a Camera to mount my lenses on!
But BIG MINUS is that NO stabilization with A-lenses?
Just ordered SAL 300/2.8 G II SSM …should I withdraw my order…
But what about in a couple of years? Will the a99 get replaced?
That I don’t know.
I want to buy a Full frame camera & a couple of lenses this year.
I cannot really afford nor justify the cost of having to rebuy a whole new system a couple of years down the line.
If Sony will not offer a long term system with full functionality (IBIS to go with the A mount lenses & a body with full easy to access controls – i.e. plenty of buttons so at least the size of an a5xx) I don’t see how I can consider Sony as a good home for my money 🙁
Such a shame as I was really warming to the a99 compared to the competition.
And that is the rub. Why invest in the Alpha line when it seems that Sony is moving away from it? Sure they might release a couple of APS-C cameras in 2013, but the test of their true commitment is expanding and updating their FF cameras and lenses. IMHO Sony is trying to find some niche that will somehow catapult them to the top of the camera market. The NEX line is wonderful and I guess it’s where the demand for Sony is the greatest, but its not the line that many of here came to Sony for. We want to see a road map that includes a new FF A-mount camera being released every year. It’s fine if the A99 isn’t replaced for two to three years, but during the in-between years, there should be a lower-end ($2,000) and a high-end (36MP) FF cameras being released. There should also be a steady stream of G and Zeiss lenses being released as well. It doesn’t take much – maybe two G lenses and one Zeiss lens each year.
In other words, show a steadfast commitment to building out a solid ecosystem rather constantly trying to experiment with every new novel tech hoping one of them would somehow make you number one in the market place.
It will be called the A9
FF mirrorless A-mount
I suspect the A99 getting replaced in the future depends on how well it sells. If it flounders then Sony would not have a lot of incentive to continue the big FF line since they’ll have the smaller NEX version. Honestly, with the deal Nikon is running on the D600 and kit lens for under $2,000 (USD) I just cannot justify spending $800+ more for just a Sony body even though there are things I prefer on the Sony. I suspect the A99 is not selling very well at this price point.
arggh 2014 🙁 I want it now 😀
i looked it up in all the posts and didn’t see a direct reference. If i’ll use my E mount lenses in this new camera, will it use the entire FF sensor, or will it only use the APS-C relative size of the sensor?
If you put a Sony lens on that is designed to cover APS-C, then only the central area of the sensor is used. This happens already on the Sony (and other) FF DSLRs.
I hope this is wrong. I am ok with Sony bringing out FF nex (doesn’t interest me at all). But to say they stopped FF A mount to focus on FF a mount sounds like slow painful death of A mount. A mount should live.
SLT is good. A99, A57, A77 are really good cameras. NEX system is not an alternative to A mount, shouldnt be. Nex is a complementary system, not a replacement for A mount.
This, this, this.
+1
Remember the jokey Sony Australia commercials poking fun at the dumb DLSR owners and pushing the NEX system?
This rumour with the change in the Sony roadmap makes sense now.
Why has my post been deleted?
Not deleted. It was in mdoeration 🙂
Same for me how many MP’s the camera got.
As long as the high ISO performance is ok, and video is good quality.
Just need some few native E-mount FF primes with the camera.
Make them small. A 24mm, 35mm and 85mm. All F2.8 or faster.
High quality Zeiss glass can come later. People can also use adapters etc.
FF mirrorless camera with EVF – great news!
I’ve been waiting for it already long time.
Personally – I will most probably use manual, rangefinder (but not only) lenses with it.
IBIS would be great, but is not a must. I do not treat it as camera for sport. Like LEICA M9, which also doesn’t have IBIS.
This sounds like some really sad news.
I like the A-Mount SLT system and in some time I was going to go FF. Now it seems like Sony is making NEX and other toy cameras a priority over the real thing. How we’re supposed to put a 24-70 and 70-200 on NEX? And those are the most frequently needed glass..
This is going overboard.
E-mount does not mean small cameras. Look at the Panasonic GH3 it is a well sized DSLR style camera. Smaller than Canon 5d mk3 but not tiny be any means.
E-mount with adapter is not a problem. In fact NEX-7 with EA-2 is same or better than any APS-C SLT bar A77.
E-mount allows use of any other lenses from any other mount. This is the strength of it.
I am sure Sony will offer very high quality support for A-mount lenses. EA2 is good evidence of this. If they work a bit more on the design of it and on the camera design I would believe E-mount pro level camera can be much better than the dated DSLR designs from 1985.
Releasing pro grade E-mount camera does not mean ditching A-mount. Means pro cameras from Sony will be E-mount. This makes sense to me. A-mount is doomed. It is legacy DSLR design.
What worries me is the “pro” label. The price that comes with it is likely 3K plus Euro/USD. I would hope for D600 price and feature range camera.
EA2 is a kluge – it doesn’t work as well as when A mount lenses are on A mount cameras. Also, there’s no IBIS. Death to the EA2.
Also, why should I have to pay several hundred dollars for a crappy attachment that doesn’t give me full functionality? Why is that a good thing? Well, it’s NOT a good thing – it’s crap.
It is only stabilization that is lost. This actually is not feature of the adapter, right? So you loose nothing from the adapter if the body has Steady Shot Inside.
AF speed is equal to SLT, AF accuracy is same as SLT. Indeed ALL NEXes have AF micro-adjustment and only A77/A99 have this in A-mount.
I hope the new camera uses SLT menu system though. NEX menu is indeed a joke
The EA2 is fully functional. Only the benefit if IBIS is missing and I do not get that with my nex unless it is built into the lens anyway. But I still get the autofocus and metering abilities.
If you get next year’s E mount full frame you will need adapter. There is not way to put A mount lens on E mount camera without adapter.
Buy A99 if you crave A mount….this will be modern camera for next 5 years. Likely Sony will present new version of it in due time – 5 years.
I really do not want to stick with A mount though. I sold my A mount gear in the last months and switched to NEX almost entirely.
For amateur like me A mount is useless bulky dated technology. I do like A99. I tested it…but it is so expensive I actually bought D600 only to return it in few days due to dust issue.
What is so wrong with having good E mount photo camera? Long term may be this will be Sony’s chance to make difference. A mount is confined to few thousand fans worldwide.
I think we need to make strong point now about Super Steady Shot Inside so shooting the new E mount camera is not any worse than the A99.
Please add Super Steady Shot. 🙂
There are actually a number of a99 owners here.
The ones bit*hing about FF NEX e-mount are all the a-mount owners.
People want native stuff, not adapters.
Imagine it the other way, since you are totally on e-mount.
Sony releases FF a-mount, you e-mount guys can only use it using half-baked adapters.
Sounds like a good deal? Apparantly not.
NEX will almost never have IBIS.
If they could they would not have done OSS for its e-mount lens.
In marketing sense, its good for sony.
Long term they could just make people pay more for OSS.
Look at canikon, on similar lens for image stablization they have to fork out almost $1,000 more.
sounds perfect for making tons of money for sony.
does this wake you people up?
I’m worried about the price now. If they want to place it as a professional camera, I’m afraid it’s going to be more expensive than RX1, body only.
I hope they stay around €2000 or lower. But pro features demand pro price…
Hi Andrea,
any sign/info about the schedule of next SLT-FF body release ? especially the higher end body (than a99).
No sign yet.
thanks for the message!
I need a radically new sensor other than the run of the mill ones from Sony (the biggest sensor manufacturer in the whole world!). It is time that Sony invests and create a sensor that would not have corner problems.
I want Sony to overhaul its WB and exposure/metering. Forget video and concentrate on these two key issues. Start the WB at 2000K (to be linear) and not at 2500K.
If these two do not happen, I will ditch Sony for good. I am sick and tired of getting suckered in by this compact cuteness with little substance.
Also, please stop making lenses. You know you can not.
the problem is sony is to much care about video not a still photos, that’s the promblem so they forget the essential of still
E-mount FF with IBIS is physically impossible. The FF sensor area barely fits in the throat opening, the shifts necessary for IBIS would lead to hard vignetting immediately.
So the only option is to have a body with a wide throat auxiliary mount that could then accept either E-mount or A-mount adapter ‘suppositories’ 8)
How big do you think the shift would be?
I think it would be around half a millimetre.
Damn I’m so glad that I left Sony, and this post describes why perfectly.
The a99 is ok. It’s a good camera but nothing special and not the revolution that we were hoping for. Really the 5d3 and d800 are better cameras overall when you consider accessories, video quality and lens selection etc. The a99 hasn’t blown us away, despite all the rumors, hype and promises from Sony. 24mp, 6fps and a rubbish AF system don’t impress me much, especially not at the asking price!
We thought a 36mp camera was just around the corner in early 2013, but that has turned out to be BS too. This is so typical for Sony, and I was waiting for a replacement for my a850 and this site kept saying how great things were just around the corner. Yet I waited and waited and waited. And eventually I just bought a d800.
And now it turns out that the a99 is all Sony are giving until late 2013.. pathetic. Nikon and Canon have both released three full frames this year. If anybody is STILL waiting, I’d suggest you just change systems. Why wait based on rumors and promises when you have everything you need right now in other systems.
When you have to buy stuff always focus on your real need and on real items. Never on rumors. If you waited than it means you don’t really needed it 🙂
I waited to see what my upgrade options were. My a850 was getting a bit old and I was looking for a replacement. Sony clearly showed that they aren’t serious about the full frame market when they discontinued the a850/900 with no replacements announced. In the meanwhile, Nikon and Canon released two brand new cameras each, and Sony showed that they were even less serious when they announced the a99, which is inferior to the d600, let alone the d800 or 5d3. I got fed up of waiting, and this blog post is yet ANOTHER “keep waiting. Good things are coming” post. I’m just telling people that instead of waiting for Sony, leave and get something you want right now. I was in that situation, I ditched Sony, and I couldn’t be happier now.
I doubt Sony can make dent in Full Frame DSLR regardless if they make efforts.
On D800 A99….D800 is failure, the AF system simply is not fit for purpose. A99 as you say is good incremental camera. AF by the way is not bad at all.
Hang on – the d800 AF isn’t fit for purpose? You mean the 51 point, 3D focus tracking AF system used in the d4? The d800 autofocus is CRAZY good.
And the a99 AF isn’t bad? The silly little system with only 19 points that covers a tiny area in the middle of the frame? And in every test, they say it’s slower than the d600!
I was hoping for new a-mount full frame news… for my style of shooting ergonomics are important and nex-style full frame won’t be very good. Just hoping that A99 price comes down a bit and than I can go with that
Can sombody please explain to me why everybody is so pissed off about Sony not releasing a FF SLT in 2013? A99 took us four years of waiting. What is it that everybody needs that isn’t already there in the a99? (I mean this as a sincere question.)
Apart from more megapixels of course, but then – what are they good for? Comapring d800 to d600 noise leaves quite a lot to be desired i think.
I can’t speak for everyone, of course, but for me personally the biggest disappointments with A99 were the AF module reused straight from the A77 which simply doesn’t provide enough coverage on a FF sensor, and the (relatively) horrible video output that’s visibly worse than what you can get using even Sony’s own NEX and previous SLT cameras. I’d like to see these addressed and I do not wish to wait another four years for it to happen.
I do have to say though, apart from these two issues and perhaps the retail price, the A99 really is an awesome camera that is just as good as the 5D3 and the D800, and with a selection of autofocus Zeiss lenses to boot!
It’s hard to explain precisely why so many A mount users demur over the A99 as it comes down to an amorphous range of reasons that changes from person to person, but some examples are
-That the sensor is deemed overall inferior to the 36MP Sony sensor in the D800
-That the AF sensors cover too little of the frame and have too few cross sensors
-That SLT cameras were supposed to be cheaper to produce yet the A99 is quite an expensive camera compared to its competition, especially in Europe
-That too many sacrifices were made for the sake of video performance, yet the video performance isn’t good enough
-That the AF-D mode doesn’t work with most of their customers current lenses (at least so far)
-That the EVF is a step back from the A900’s OVF
-That there wasn’t a big enough improvement in image quality to justify four years of technical improvements
-That too many of the A900’s ergonomic failings were not fixed in its successor
-That it arrived too late
-A general feeling that Sony wasn’t ambitious enough and didn’t put enough heart into designing it
I have heard very few people saying it’s a bad camera, and I certainly don’t feel it is, it’s more a feeling of disquiet, unease, unfulfilled longing.
Carl,
I see the problem as that Sony has yet to convince its supporters or its critics that it’s willing to commit for the long run. Canon and Nikon are there in every way with bodies, lenses, working flash systems and tons of third-part support, so Canon and Nikon don’t need to convince anyone that they plan to be in the game. Sony on the other had continues to fail head-to-head against the big two in the DSLR/SLT body type in the most important category SALES!
Old timers that have a big investment in Minolta/Sony/Sony-Zeiss glass may be willing to stick it out, but someone just starting out looking to build a complete professional photographic toolkit should look elsewhere, at least for the next few years as I see it.
So, Sony is going to release a Zeiss 50mm/f1.4 and a new 70-200/f2.8 and a new 70-400 in a few months each being at least as expensive as what Nikon and Canon sell and the 50mm Zeiss could well be the most expensive of any 50mm 1.4 from any of the big three………….
How many here are willing to buy a Sony 70-200/f2.8 A-mount at $2,400 or a Sony-Zeiss 50mmf/1.4 costing around $1,000 this spring with rumors like this one?
How many here are willing to invest thousands of dollars in new A-Mount lenses after reading rumors like this one?
Me, I’m ready to accept the fact that Sony may never be the one and only camera maker in my kit for the foreseeable future and I need to stop worrying what the future holds for my beloved A-mount and move forward with the today and now and to start investing my camera dollars with a company that watches my needs as a photographer of today.
All of my A-mount lenses still work, my two Zeiss zooms and my three Sony-Zeiss primes are still as good if not better that Canon or Nikons. My a850 is still today a better camera that most and If I needed or wanted a replacement for my a850 it’s there, just buy the a99!
Looking down the road is maybe a different story.
I’m not convinced of that one. People have been predicting the end of the world for A-mount repetitively over the last 28 years, yet the sun has continued to rise.
Neither Minolta nor Sony has ever maintained enthusiasm for the system for long and both looked at alternative systems (Vectis and NEX) that would somehow catapult them to the top, but at the end of the day people will still buy DSLRs and as long as they do it makes no financial sense to stop making them.
The fact that SONY are releasing these three new lenses and plan multiple new SLT cameras says more about SONY support for A-mount, than a rumour about a new camera an entire year away in an entirely different product category.
Price
I think part of the problem is that it’s just one FF camera and as such it cannot meet the need/wishes of all the Sony photographers that are out here. Sony need at least four FF cameras, one for each of these categories: Wedding, Sports, Pro and Serious Amateur. You can even throw in one for nature market as well. Each one of these groups need a camera with different features and tweaks, but Sony isn’t focused on delivering these types of cameras. One FF with no prospects coming for another four years (if ever) is not going to cut it.
The A99 is a good camera but it not enough to meet the vast needs of these different buyers. What is upsetting is that most us want more FF’s A-mount cameras but we are now being told that Sony is abandoned this plan to pour all of its resources into a new FF mirrorless E-mount camera. That’s not good.
Now some would argue that Sony needs to distinguish itself from CaNikon and that is true. But they already have two pieces of the puzzle: IBIS and superior Zeiss lenses. IMHO they just need to build a steady stream of high quality cameras with excellent IQ at a lower price point. That’s how you will beat CaNikon – having a superior ecosystem at a lower price. EV, SLT and mirrorless are great, but what most of us really want is high quality cameras and lenses at a lower price point. Pro’s want a solid ecosystem with a reliable and easily accessible support system. Provide that and the market will buy in force. That’s how Samsung beat Sony in the TV market. They offer high quality TVs at a lower price point so that the average buyer has to ask if buying a Sony involves getting a better TV or paying more for the Sony name.
i think part of the problem is that it’s just one FF camera and as such it cannot meet the need/wishes of all the Sony photographers that are out here. Sony need at least four FF cameras, one for each of these categories: Wedding, Sports, Pro and Serious Amateur. You can even throw in one for nature market as well. Each one of these groups need a camera with different features and tweaks, but Sony isn’t focused on delivering these types of cameras.
The A99 is a good camera but it not enough to meet the vast needs of these different buyers. What is upsetting is that most of us want to see more FF’s A-mount cameras but we are now being told that Sony is abandoned this plan in order to pour all of its resources into a new FF mirrorless E-mount camera. That’s not good.
Now some would argue that Sony needs to distinguish itself from CaNikon and that is true. But they already have two pieces of the puzzle: IBIS and superior Zeiss lenses. IMHO they just need to build a steady stream of high quality cameras with excellent IQ at a lower price point. That’s how you will beat CaNikon – having a superior ecosystem at a lower price. EV, SLT and mirrorless are great, but what most of us really want is high quality cameras and lenses at a lower price point. Pro’s want a solid ecosystem with a reliable and easily accessible support system. Provide that and the market will buy in force.
So is the 85/1.8 the 1st FF E-mount lens coming in 2013?
Unless the 85/1.8 turns out to be rather large, I would doubt it.
This is getting more and more ridiculous;
To spread rumors about a camera design that is not happening.
What’s the point in trying to hold people’s interest, other than to draw readers to a rumor site which is probably based on false speculations.
Sony makes great image sensors.
Sony does not make image sensor CDAF that can compete with DSLR PDAF.
Sony does not make great lenses.
Sony therefore can not offer complete camera systems.
Sony is probably not contractually allowed, or even interested in effectively competing with Nikon, Leica and other image sensor customers.
So why does sonyalpharumors insist on perpetuating expectations that are unrealistic or outright misconstrued?
Bebgt! Comment like yours I have everytime I post rumors like that. I remember the same style of critics when I said Sony woudl develop a SLT mirror technology. The same when I said a NEX mirrorless would arrive and the same comments when I wrote about the VG900 NEX Full Frame. So most of the time I was right and I expect you to recognize this or simply leave the website. It’s three years now I do that job, and I don’t deserve cheap critics like that.
I will of course notice your name and credentials. And in one year I expect your excuses 🙂
+1
Some people are negative, half empty, unhappy and just miserable people. You can tell by the way people interact with others how truly unhappy they are with their existence. Some people are just truly arses. It is just too bad they try to make others as miserable as themselves. Happy Holidays, Andrea. Oh by the way, I waited for over a year for my 99 and would have probably bought the 77 if it was not for you and your foresight. Not that the 77 is not a very good camera in its own right but I was looking for FF with better iso performance. The 99 delivered and you saw it coming a year out.
To delay the predictions about a FF NEX a year at a time is a clear indication that we have no clue.
The technology for a FF NEX has been here for over a year now.
I am questioning whether Sony really has the intent, and contractual space, to produce one.
To slide your predictions a year at a time is not an answer.
Hi Admin – merry Christmas to you too!
Have you heard any rumours about the direction that native a-mount bodies will take in 2014? Are we going to see new ff slt/mirrorless a-mount bodies or do you think sony will let them die off? I was thinking about picking up a 35mm sigma for my a77 but I’m starting to have second thoughts…
“both E mounted and A mounted lens are fully supported”.–> this is the biggest surprise i can get from this article. we all know that there is a lot of high quality lens from A mounted, which is indirectly expanded the lens selection for mirrorless camera.
How expensive this fellow would be?
> 4) The camera has some key tech not seen on any Sony camera yet. I am still working on this rumor to get some detailed info. So stay tuned!
My guess is global electronic shutter.
Alternatively new lens designs using large corrective rear elements.
Either of these new developments could explain the long lead time to market.
In any case it’s critical that the sensor performs with high incidence wides – in order to mount leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander type lenses.
Owners of these lenses are the ones who will be prepared pay the premium for this camera.
And this market is what can “jump start” early adoption.
The fullframe E-mount VG900 has excellent colour, but unfortunately smears the corner detail – probably due to refraction in the anti-aliasing layer.
It’s time for me to save money for the coming FF NEX and FF E Lens ^^
Yepee~
Hope this rumor will not speed up other brands’ FF system development… You know, 1yr+ is sufficient for many possibilities.. At least I guess many brands will follow Sony now on and by the time FF NEX is on shelf, canon/Pentax will announce their FF EVIL plans..
If it gets at least 36 MP, which is what I’d describe as the minimum resolution for having a telephoto reach not or not too much below current APS-C and (M)FT cameras, if it has in-body stabilization, and if Sony doesn’t make any other mistakes and doesn’t forget some other important feature, it might become my one-and-only camera system for the foreseeably future – even if that camera will cost more than their current Alpha flagship.
But only if all those things will come true. If only one thing doesn’t, it won’t, because, for my type of photography, something important will be missing, and I’ll be better off with something else, even if that would mean not having Full Frame at all.
nice. I hope rrs will make a very sturdy L-bracket, the ones they make for the current nexes don’t look very sturdy to me. so I hope, the a bit bigger will be enough.
now I can get rid of my d7000 buy a dp2m to use alongside with my om-d and wait for the ff nex. that was my plan anyway but now I now know for sure it is coming.
ah and yes new 32mp sensor of course (unless it is much more expensive than the current 24mp)
and I sure hope it has peaking for the whole image
RRS making a “L” bracket of my camera is almost a show-stopper for me.
I use RRS ball heads, mono heads, flash brackets and other support gear that need a RRS adapter.
As of today, RRS has yet to offer it for the a99
Rumours are circulating of FF mirrorless systems coming from both Fuji and Sigma in 2013, the FF Nex will have to be special to compete with both these systems, as they will offer sensors which will probabley be better than Sony’s.
I’m shocked there is no IBIS which is a feature which seperates Sony from Canon & Nikon
Thank u for tipping us off!
Judging by the the lens road map maybe Sony does push it towards an E mount. IMHO mirror less system is the future. Have both NEX 5n and A99. Transitional period these next couple of years will be in imaging. I would say find a cam u like and just go shooting.
Happy Christmas to all !!
My guess is that a FF mirrorless is the platform to a new system that will require lenses optimized/developed for this platform. Old A and E mount lenses will work. But for optimal quality you will want to buy the new lenses.
May we see an Olympus – Sony cooperation here? Similar platform but two brands? Oly developing the lenses and Sony the housing. Like in automotive industry. You can buy a Renault or Volvo or Mack truck. They all look different but all essential parts are the same regardless of brand.
Pros and Cons for a FF NEX:
Pros:
– Much more portable,easy to carry
– Light weight, easy to carry
– Stylish for some
– Easy to carry, small
– Not heavy, may fit into a pocket (w/o the lens)
– Light, not heavy
Cons:
– Attaching a flash gun will make it very hard to carry
– Attaching a CZ or G series lens will make it very hard to use
– Attaching both a decent lens with a flash gun will make it impossible to use
– Very small buttons will make it very hard for professional use
– Less buttons means you’d have to go into the menu everytime you want to change a setting
– No battery grip option
– Battery life will be a big problem for professional use
– Not suitable for professional video shooting
– I really suspect if the e-mount can carry a 1kg CZ2470 on a tripod. G-series zooms are even heavier.
– Although there are adapters for Canon or Nikon lenses, it is not very preferrable to swich from one adapter to another while changing lenses
– Current A-mount lenses will be less useful without IBIS
I believe, we are a community that expect developments on A-Mount SLT’s. NEX is another way of photography. The needs and requests of a-mount users and e-mount owners are totally different. A development roadmap for NEX does not necessarily bring disadvantages to A-mount BUT this does not seem to be the case here since A99 successor FF announcements are delayed already. This clearly underlines of the plans of Sony to ditch A-Mount SLT development stopping CaNikon competition and moving to another market, a market where users usually are new to photography (sorry guys, of course there are pro’s among NEX users but you are minority).
I don’t want to have lots of adapters for different lenses from different producers.
I don’t want to hardly handle one small body with a flashgun larger than the body.
I am a usual A57 user who is expecting developed SLT’s with a clear roadmap, knowing that my next body would support the accessories, the lenses, the flashguns I own. Not with lens adapters, not with hotshoe adapters, cables etc, but natively.
Think this way.. what would happen if Canon announced that they won’t be introducing any other FF’s after 5DMk3 but rather develop full frame mirrorless small bodies?
Well i am happy someone is sane like me speaking the truth on this development.
Looks like sony is happy with just selling it to rich enthusiast.
Most probably it will have quite limited stock too.
what might surprise me is if they came out with a oly lens adapter to go with it…
that might well be game changing, as in eating up oly’s market share… lol
WOW! So much exitement! It almost looks like a doomsday has come to the Sony world!
But honestly I believe that there is no reason for it (if we leave the Mayas aside ). This forum is regularly visited by more than five thousand readers. Some of them are professionals with strict personal (and various) requirements. I believe though that most of the readers are enthusiasts (like me) and therefore more tolerant. A higher degree of tolerance should be practiced by the professionals too, I feel.
Sony has now two systems (A-mount and E-mount) and none of them seems to me to be endangered. Both of them offer specific qualities and it is up to the particular user to pick what suits to her or him. Isn´t all great? What´s ahead is a further attempt to make a bridge between those two systems.
I am interested in the E-mount because it meets my requirements (lightweight travel equipment). Still I am able to understand those guys who prefer the opposite. I like my NEX-7 very much and hope to get from Sony more quality lenses for it. They have their own reasons. I hope that the future FF NEX will come in two versions, one of them being aimed at the non-professionals. A slightly larger body than NEX-7 is exactly what I would appreciate. I would wish a few millimeters more space between the lens and the grip, a larger and mainly taller grip so that all my fingers could firmly wrap it. The miniature size of the body is not the basic quality of the NEX to me, it is rather the light weight that matters.
So let´s be surprised what is Sony going to offer. They have shown that they have enough experienced and talented designers, researchers and engineers. I am fascinated by the progress in the Sony products during the past year or two.
Season´s greetings to everybody and lots of appreciation to you Andrea for your lasting effort!
I wish Sony would focus more on giving a bigger line up to FF a mount cameras. It’s great to have a FF update to the a900 but I would love it if we had more choice when it came to making the switch from aps-c to FF. you look at Canon or Nikon, they both have a bottom a mid and a top to choice from. We have a ?? They will get replaced by its future model not joining it. That to me as an invester in Sony cameras is disappointing.
I’d prefer a FF that can use my Alpha lenses directly, Even if the body is as wide as the A99. Just minus the bump on top. It could be sold as a more rugged camera too.
Since this move by Sony is for pros, a thick body (to accommodate the Alpha optics) is not an issue for pros. It would be something like the old large format roll film cameras pros used to use. (I think they were made by Pentax, Fuji, and a few others? It’s been a few years.)
My biggest wish is for a very simple FF NEX that can be adapted to Leica M-mount (including Zeiss) and R lenses. If the sensor is 24 MP instead of 32, the ISO sensitivity should be very high up to ISO 50000-100000, so in-body stabilization should be unnecessary. And the main point: it needs to be affordable. Not like the A99 scheme, but like the D600 or 6D, which are almost as good as their higher up models, but at 2/3 the cost. They can also try the Nikon approach right now: D600 with two kit lenses for only $300 more than the body. I think FF NEX at around $1000-1300 would be the sweet spot. Also, because it’s mechanically simpler than the SLR/SLT designs, it should also be cheaper to make. Can’t wait!! Meantime, waiting for an a65 refresh.
$1000-$1300 dream on.
A99=A77 with FF sensor @ double the price($2800)
Look f.or
Nex9=Nex7 with FF sensor @double the price($2400)
And yet the RX1 is a full frame mirrorless with a $1200 lens for a total package of $2800.
That would mean an even larger choice of full frame lenses for my Sony NEX-VG900 full frame mirrorless 😉
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8343/8194434390_dcb0dbdbea_k.jpg
Andrea,
Thanks for posting this rumor. I myself have had a NEX 5 in the past, but ended up trading that in for an a57. The reason I did so was not because I prefer the DSLR form factor – in fact I prefer the NEX form factor (even with the semi big lenses on the front). The true reason for the trade was because of the AF performance, and the quality of A Mount lenses vs. the e-mount at that time.
I think I share the same concerns as most people that have posted so far in that I don’t want my investment in A-Mount Glass – 16-50 f2.8 and soon to be the new 70-200 G to be wasted.
Having all the specs in the world in an NEX form factor is useless if it can’t deliver the goods when it comes to the AF tracking a moving target – kids running around or on swings etc. I hope Sony pays attention to this when developing the new rumored body.
Quite honestly, I can really see myself keeping a DSLR body for use as my kids grow older and end up playing sports etc, while using the NEX form factor body for family gatherings, trips to theme parks etc. The best situation though is to be able to use one set of lenses for both while not giving up Image Stabilization + AF Speed + AF Accuracy. I don’t ever see myself attaching that 70-200G lens to a NEX form factor body as you need some sort of stable grip to hold on to in order to balance that weight, but I would hate to have to invest in another quality f/2.8 mid range zoom lens for the NEX body when I have a perfectly good one for the alpha body.
Considering I would say that I have a modest investment in the alpha series and I’m upset over this, I can only imagine how folks that have invested thousands of dollars feel about this.
The one hope I would have of Sony is that they listen to people that actually own their products – the recommendations we provide are some times valuable. Here are my requirements:
Don’t give up on the Alpha Mount / DSLT/R type body – there is a place for this and the requirements are there. (Sporting events with large tele-zoom and prime lenses)
Take the time to Innovate – no “me too” specs. Photos aren’t taken with specs listed on paper. Make sure the features you offer are functional. AF Speed and Accuracy are of the highest importance.
Image Quality – redefine what it means to have a good image. You’re on the right path – there is a reason other companies are coming to you to manufacture the sensors they use – keep going with the R&D.
Video is important – don’t forget about it. You’re actively pushing 4K video – include this in your future products – pull from your strengths in commercial video and broadcasting. Clean video out is also very important – allows choice and freedom.
Just my $.02 I guess. Thanks again Andrea for running this site. Hope everyone has a Happy Holiday Season.
This all sounds like a move to make more money… Everyone knows that this is Sony’s attempt to get people to buy Sony e-mount lenses in the future so you can have a native mount for your ‘new’ E mount camera and stop using your CZ or legacy Minolta Lenses… Everyone also knows that it is cheaper for them to manufacture a nex body than alpha… I dont care if this camera has the best resolution and high iso low noise of any camera EVER produced, I WILL NOT buy a Nex and adapt Alpha Lenses… Not very “Professional” at all…
All in.
A99 = Full Frame a77
This thing = Full frame Nex 7
Sony Loves remixing the same cameras and barely changing a spec or 2.
Good way to sell you a ‘new’ camera yearly…
If “barely changing a spec or 2” means putting in a FF sensor vs an APS-C, I’m fine with that.
Good work Andrea. Thank you.
actually, i am interested to know just how many people here is in support of FF NEX?
Andrea could we have a poll? Just for the sake of it. lol
i’ll just list a FF NEX that is acceptable for me, or even game changing.
1. 24 MP FF sensor, is more than enough MP for me IQ matters more and saves alot more space
2. Weather sealed body, hey its meant to be portable isnt it?
3. 1 SD Card slot, 2 would be a bonus for video
4. On sensor AF, might be great if they could pull it off tho i highly doubt they would do that given that they went OSS for e-mount lens
5. size slightly bigger than nex 7 is fine.
6. 3 custom profiles & custom buttons please.
7. Decent AF system that tracks fast enough (without this no point buying imo)
8. ISO 50 – 25600 seems to be the standard now for FF, please have usable ISO images up to 6400 instead of 1600. (without this no point buying imo)
9. New F40AM LED Mountable/External Flash (would be cool, esp if we could chain them wirelessly)
10. Wifi like what Canon 6D has, its pretty neat and it should not cost much R&D
11. GPS
12. Longer lasting battery (good to have)
13. price under $3,000
This is made under assumption of a portable travel camera rather than a pro camera.
Sorry a correction.
4. should be on sensor image stablization
I use my NEX for film mostly. I will buy the FF nex if it is going to have IBIS.
Why doing a modern top notch premium camera without that? Small pocket cameras have got it. Alpha cameras to. FAIL! Som many are going to be confused and not going to buy.
With IBIS it is going to be a huge success!!!
Yeah, unfortunately the laws of physics prevent the ability of NEX to retain it’s small size and have IBIS. Try again in 2015.
The IS in small pocket digital camera is not IBIS but ILIS
As sensors continue to evolve and the old analog cameras of our pasts change to look more and more like imaging computers I see optics as the elephant in the room. At some point the high MP sensors are going to out-run the ability of the lenses to resolve. What happens then?
Will the lenses in our camera bags be relicts of the past like record turntables and CD players?
Photographers like me are willing to spend one, two or more thousands of dollars on optics because we have learned over time that camera bodies come and go but lenses keep on going and a great lens is a photographer’s best friend.
Is Sony capable and willing to provide the quality optics needed for camera sensors 36MP and greater?
And if not Sony, who is, Canon or Nikon?
“At some point the high MP sensors are going to out-run the ability of the lenses to resolve. What happens then?”
That is how it should be. The sensor should be better than the best lens at its best aperture. It should be able to record every last detail of the image.
Ideally the Airy disc (the diffraction blur of a star, for instance) should be on at least four pixels. Nine would be better, if you want to use deconvolution algorithms.
I think we are a long way from that stage at present.
Time to stock up on Contax-G lenses..:D
Sony -is Minolta,and Minolta -is Leica.
more customizability. Fix the MF assist glitch.
And allow my current NEx adapters to work on it. I heard many vintage lens adapters for NEX dont work on the VG900…
does anybody mentioned that wide-angle lenses are MUCH better and cheaper for mirrorless? Look at newly developed SEL 10-18mm f/4, nothing below $1000 even close to this small and compact zoom. I expect that landscape shooters will migrate to NEX FF.
And yes, I would not expect lenses like 70-200/2.8 or 24-70/2.8 for NEX FF.
NEX is perfect for primes and wide-angle primes/zooms. In couple with this kind of lenses it could be compact and make use of its relatively weak AF system (no hurry for landscapes and acceptable at low-light with primes).
Be realistic! Mirrorless and SLR/SLT do have their own advantages, which are not the same!
SEL 10-18/4 is APSC lens, if you compare it with APSC A-mount 11-18 you will find the A-mount lens is cheap. it’s same with SAL 35mm/1.8, SAL 50mm, etc
futhermore photographic is not just landscape, or street, but many thing. for do that we need a right system on it, and i think nex is not as good and complete as like A-mount system
it is probably going to be too expensive for me at launch. It will take time to get the lens for the system as well…so just enjoy the tools I have on my hand till this system mature. I don’t think the sensor size is the problem of my photos anyway. Happy Holiday everyone!
Sony are bound to play down future a-mount FF plans at the moment. They want people to buy the a99. Not wait for something either better or cheaper next year. Sites like this help them manage expectations, without having to commit to real (published) product plans.
+1
I’m finding all the backlash against this somewhat shocking. Admin has been alluding to a full-frame NEX for a while now, and there’s the full-frame NEX video camera. So this rumor is basically confirming what seemed to be written on the wall all along. Also, there’s nothing in the world that stops Sony from continuing to make A-mount camera, and nothing in this rumor to suggest they’ll stop.
I see the full-frame NEX as a revolution. It’s almost like an open-source mount. When the translucent mirror becomes unnecessary, and it is going to, the large flange distance become an anachronism. They can make an e-mount camera the size of the a99 (just narrower), except it could be used with basically any lens one could ever what to put on it. Isn’t that better? I have a-mount lenses, and I’m super excited to know that I’ll be able to use them on a E-mount body. This rumor is all good news, as far as I can tell.
The open-source option has been available since day one for Nex – and has there been any evidence of a big switch going on? Just because this new model will be FF, do you REALLY think that there will be any more switching? Who will switch – will it be Nikon or Canon users? Both have options for sensors with that are already in the ballpark, if not better, than what is being described here. If you think that a smaller body will matter to them, think again because using big lenses on the little body won’t make much of a difference to the overall size. I gotta say this notion is nonsense. Nothing new here folks, move along. The company who was going to bring in a “game changer” is delusional.
No one know who will or will not switch or join until the product is launch.
Lets us see. 🙂
FF makes better sense for pre-digital prime lenses. A compact body may not balance a large zoom or prime so well as an SLR but that is going to be a matter for personal choice based on what kind of lenses you normally use. Leica M seems to work OK but it may be too early to tell.
Mirrorless, EVF – is future. dSLRs will be shrinking.
We can observe that since Panasonic G1 release.
It accelerates.
Good move!
I can’t see how this would be bad for the leica M system. Its a different type of camera (rangefinder) in a different price class.
You could just as easily say its bad news for the nikon D800. It has just as much similarities.
I have both a leica M9P and a sony nex 5n and both are totally different in use. Sure I can use the M lenses on the NEX, but that doesn’t make the nex a replacement for a rangefinder camera. Not at all.
Actually, since I bought both sigma’s 19 and 30mm, I hardly use the M adapter at all on the nex.
I’m not so much interested in FF as long as the lenses for e-mount aren’t absolutely top, both in primary and
What about people like myself that love the low-noise output of the Sony 16 MP sensor? I had a 24 MP Sony A77 and I was more satisfied with the 16 MP output and the 8 extra MP really didn’t do much for me.
If you double the area of the sensor and double the number of pixels (from 16M to 32M), the quality when viewed at 100% should be the same.
But on the same size print, it will look better, because the enlargement will be less.
FF-NEX with OLED back screen under $2000 (body) with compact Zeiss 24mm F2.0 and 85 F1.4 prime (both 3-way stabilization) will create a new era of photography.
Would it kill Sony to release a 24mp E mount full frame and a 32mp A mount full frame? I would be upset if Sony does not produce a native A mount mirrorless camera. I like using both systems and if the E mount full frame isn’t that small, that sort of gets rid of the E mount selling point. If, on the other hand, the produce an intechangeable mount camera with built in IBIS, that would be FANTASTIC!
What do you mean by a “native” A mount mirrorless?
If that mount is fixed in place, you would not be able to use E mount, or Nikon, or Canon, or Leitz, etc etc lenses on the camera. And it would be no different from an E mount body with an LAE adapter glued in place.
So why not make the adapter removable?
Don, because, the AF is compromised compared to a native alpha mount AND because you lose IBIS. Those are HUGE factors – how in the world can you try to ignore or minimize them? IBIS WAS a point of pride for alpha, and now is disposable? Rubbish.
+100000
IF they produce a full fram E mount with an adapter for A mount and sensor based stabilization, that would be phenomenal. Imagine how many Canon and Nikon users, in addition to A mount users, would flock to such a camera. Without IBIS, the thought of not having a full frame mirroless A mount camera is near unacceptable. There are too many good A mount lenses out there to be deprived of an A mount full frame mirrorless with in body satbilization.
This will be nail to coffin of dSLRs. Make EVF fast enough and bye bye dSLRs.
Otherwise low mpix = better SNR and better colors. Which is good, and low SNR can in theory give bit better DR too (more recoverable shadows). So 24 is good choice, given there can be improvements of already pretty good today tech.
Umm look at the list of best selling cameras. This won’t even be a thumb tack in the coffin – more like a sticky note.
Sorry, it’s pure BS you’ve stated.
The more MPX usually is better for the same generation technology: better colors (NEX-7 vs NEX-5n), higher resolution. And about the same high iso performance and noise levels.
Merry Xmas 2013 !!
awesome. i just hope it has more traditional controls like the rx1 or leica s2 and stuff like that.
Nex-9:
1. design: FUJI X-E1
2. No filter AA
3. no AF
4. no Flash
5. no Video
Fuji X-e1?
Please Read more,
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3353913
The imaging quality Sony Nex-6 is better than Fuji X-e1.
Really, I wouldn’t be making such a fuss if A99 wasn’t such a huge disappointment, and now we’re stuck with it as a flagship for another 2-3 years. I’m not buying it. Game changers on the horizon? None. Incremental gains from apsc to ff Nex are trivial.
I’m having a hard time trying to think about the FF NEX when the APS-C NEX doesn’t have a lot of the lenses people want, I wonder how is that going to be for a new FF mirrorless camera. Didn’t they say that it’s hard to come up with good optics for a FF with he E-Mount?
I agree – already there are two systems that, in terms of lenses, are over-promised, and under delivered. Might as well add a third!
The whole operation stinks of desperation. Excellence cannot exist in that kind of atmosphere.
SLT solution is a bad solution for today’s technology, SLT was created so you can still have phase detection AF while shooting a movie, but it turns out that today you can do that without the SLT and without losing 1/3 of the light.
Sony clearly doesn’t have the resources to keep both A-mount and E-mount fed with the lenses that are needed and what about a FF E-mount then? Differently from Fuji whom has shown tremendous commitments towards their system – with new firmware, each camera correcting flaws from the antecessor, more lenses, etc. – I can’t really buy that Sony can deliver that so soon.
Sony took 3 generations to be able to bring a good prime combo and it still lacks at least a portrait prime and a fast zoom, how much more will it take to Sony show their commitment?
I would not say that the Fuji system is more/less complete than the NEX or Alpha system. Perhaps for your needs, the current NEX lineup is insufficient, but for many others, it is more than sufficient. What’s a portrait prime, for example. The 50mm f1.8 on APS-C can be classified as a portrait prime. Heck, a lot of Cartier Bresson’s portraits were taken with a 35mm prime (on 35mm). So in that regard, the 24mm is a portraint prime. The 35mm f1.8 can be used for portraits. The upcoming 85mm f1.8 can be used for portraits. Again, almost any lens can be used for portraiture – it depends on your creativity, your point of view, etc.
Yes, the NEX is lacking in high speed telephoto primes. I’d like a 50-200mm f2.8 system, but that would be a fairly large lens. Even a 50-200mm f4 zoom would not be that compact.
On second thought, a 30+MP sensor would be nice so that existing APS-C e-mount lenses could also be used (for portability) and still get, what, at least 18-20MP? That would be very nice indeed.
That is a great idea. The camera could automatically crop those images.
Full frame E mount lenses available today:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Mount+Type_Sony+E-Mount&ci=1884&N=4292338124+4190025432
Full frame NEX available today :
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8343/8194434390_dcb0dbdbea_k.jpg
+1
Finally, I have waited for a full frame nex for years, the only thing holding me back from buying a mirrorless camera is the sensor, I just like the ‘look’ of an FF camera that you can’t get from aps-c camera. I’m not saying that the current mirrorless offering is not sufficient, I own a fuji x100 and it is awesome, one of the best tool for photography. Yet I always crave for those full frame look with my x100. I hope Sony can realized my dream. Just follow what Fuji did with their xpro-1 and I believe Sony will succeed, a wide angle prime(or zoom), a fix 35, a fix 50 and a macro. Just make sure that they are all high quality, the only thing holding me back from buying current nex cameras are the lenses. Keep up the good work, now I can’t wait for the end of 2013 =)
they were probably working on this camera from day one but know they need lenses .I Think this is awesome and I can’t wait
I guess people forget about third party lens makers. I am sure there will be plenty and from what I understand sigma and tamron quality control has gotten better.
Now, they just need to shutdown the slt line that nobody wants and devote resources to Nex. Why are they releasing new lenses for the miniscue number of slt users? Sony needs to get their priorities right. They are forsaking the vast majority of their interchangeable lens cameras users to cater to the small number of slt whiners. Enough is enough. Sony camera division must wake up and realize who butters their bread.
how many lenses does A mount offer comparing to E mount again?any pros shooting e-mount?please enlighten us
I’m pleased I have not bought lots of Sony A mount lenses meant for FF, as I feel the A99 could be the last A mount FF camera. Why do I think this? Well the high MP FF Alpha has been pulled along with the mirrorless FF A mount camera. The stars of the Zeiss ZA lenses the 85mm f1.4 & 135mm f1.8 have needed an updated for a couple of years or more, yet there has never been a hint that this would happen.
Sadly I can see the demise of the A mount in favour of what I beleive is am inferior E mount, which doesn’t allow inbody AS which was one of the main reasons I bought a Sony DSLR.
I’m sure the FF Nex will be a great camera, small and compact and it will eventually have a range of new lenses which are required to get the best out of the new camera. Sure you will be able to use A mount lenses with an adaptor but they will be heavy and make the camera unbalanced in the hand due to their size and weight.
Huge financial difficlties Sony is facing has caused them to rethink their future and from what has been written today I can only conclude that they are ditching the FF A mount. A sad day and I hope I am wrong
I sympathize with yours and other Alpha owners’ plight, but everyone must accept the reality of the situation. Sony has huge financial difficulties and must prioritize. If they continue to divide their attention between the low volume, low success Alpha line and the highly successful NEX, they become a jack of all trade and master of none. There are a lot of NEX owners who also own superior Canikon DSLR systems. The main reason is that we see the NEX as the MOST PROMISING mirrorless system on the market. We’d like Sony to push NEX forward to the point where our Canikon DSLRs are no longer needed. We want a more pro mirrorless system with high quality lenses. The fact is many of us watched Sony’s effort with DSLT with great anticipation, but fast forward years later, and it has not succeeded. Sony is an aggressive company, but they lack focus. They have a chance at success with NEX. They need to focus that aggressiveness into that one chance of success. Divided focus is not going to bring Sony any success.
I sympathize with you guys and hope you guys will find a way to forgive Sony. Let’s all hope Sony brings out an amazingly kick ass FF NEX system that will make both SLT and NEX users happy. We all have an idea of what our ideal camera would be, but no one has given it to us yet. Sony FF NEX is the closes thing that comes to my idea of such a camera so I’m rooting for them big time.
My local Best Buy said that Sony SLT cameras went out the door at a faster rate this year than in previous years. It may be possible that Sony did a good job selling equipment this holiday season. We won’t know for a few weeks, but all the doom and gloom here may not be reflective of what’s really going on in the marketplace.
I would not equate rumor to official company policy. Until we see what Sony actually comes up with, or even announces, we cannot really divine what their eventual plans for the A and E mounts really are. I would say that with Panasonic, Olympus, Sony having financial difficulties, it is impossible to predict what their future product lines will be. If Sony is seeking feedback on possible future products, here is mine. Don’t abandon the A mount just quite yet. Big fast lenses should mount natively on bodies that are suited for big fast lenses (not a dinky E mount full frame, in my opinion). Now, I like light camera bodies, but sometimes you need some heft to counterbalance those larger lenses. A mirrorless A mount full frame with stabilization is still a great product to bring out. In fact, an A57 size mirrorless APS-C A mount body with the features of the A77 (and with great low light capability) would be very welcome as well. Those nice zooms of Sony, melded with such a body would be phenomenal.
The counter argument to your argument is that the market for fast big lens is relatively small. Very small. Consider that most of that market is already owned by Canon and Nikon. What’s the point of being a me too product in a small market, dominated by two other competitors with a deep history of trust among users?
Sony’s decision to focus on fast primes for NEX is very promising. Leica has survived for decades doing this. They don’t have big fast zooms. A few good, f/4 zooms would be enough for NEX to capture most of the prosumers. The few who need 500mm or 70-200/2.8 lenses will still buy Canikon. Sony doesn’t need to be everywhere. Sony can take the consumer, prosumer, and Leica market and still be a dominant force in imaging. NEX is their key to being a solid #3.
This is why I still think that there is a market for the E mount full frame and A mount full frame. A lot of E mount users (including me) like the E mount for its compactness. I would not like to lug large lenses with such compact bodies. I still need to use the long big lenses, however. The A mount cameras are great for that. Thus the rumor that Sony is abandoning the full frame mirrorless A-mount camera, for me, is a great disappointment.
Sony must chose and chose carefully. My (and other dual system owners’) enthusiasm for NEX is at the same place as your enthusiasm for Alpha. It’s at a standstill because of lack of progress in lens. Sony has a window of opportunity, but many of us have no specific loyalty to the Sony brand. Continue to give NEX the divided attention they’ve been given, and Sony will be faced with TWO disappointed groups of owners. I own only two lens for my NEX and keep one eye on Fuji. Sony must chose. Unlike you Alpha owners, I will not hesitate to ditch my NEX system if I believe they continue to waffle on the NEX system.
Hopefully, this reply makes it through SAR’s commenting system.
Almazar80:
Well, let sony come out with FF NEX in 2013.
And pray they release FF mirrorless a-mount in 2014.
Since by 2013 they would have nail down most development work, having it in a-mount should be relatively quick imo.
As usual this would be sony’s stop-gap measures that might just work.
What we consumer wants is a system that could be used for both pro and travel.
If these 2 mirrorless FF could do it, they have my dollar.
calxn:
Yes, given the lower price of NEX system.
It is easier for people to leave that system compared to SLT.
That’s why i see this as part of sony’s stop-gap measure to stop people from leaving in the lower tier.
NEX-7 + 24/1.8 + 50/1.8 is almost $3k. How is that lower tier? Admin said high quality FF NEX with new technology. Translation, it’s their new flag ship. Sony’s Alpha line has lower growth potential than NEX because it doesn’t bring anything new to the Canikon party. NEX brings size and weight advantages. Cost is not the reason why people are buying NEX. In many cases, it’s more expensive than the same equip for Alpha (e.g. lens).
I see your point on lower tier. You were making a point that it’s cheaper to switch, but it’ll still cost me to switch to another brand. That’s why I’m holding back to see if Sony truly believes in this system. So far, it appears they are putting more effort into SLT than NEX and E Lens.
24MP or 32MP?
It all depends on what the crop factor will be when using existing (APS-C) emount lenses.
I’d like to use my existing emounts and obtain at least a 16MP image.
I think Sony should be able to achieve this using a 24MP sensor but if not… then 32MP it is.
The answer is 36mp. To get a 16mp cropped image, you need 36mp FF. It’s easy to calculate 1.5*1.5*(cropped resolution). 32mp gives us about 14mp cropped. 24mp gives us about 10mp.
24mp isn’t going to cut it in 2013. The next phase of FF is 54mp (24mp APSC * 1.5 * 1.5). This is why all the rumors about the next Canikon FF is in the 50+ mp range.
I agree, I’d like around 16mp cropped since FF NEX lens will be scarce for awhile so I’d like to use my APSC NEX lenses till they come out, and no, I refuse to buy Alpha FF lens for a FF NEX. They will look ridiculous on the camera.
Dear confused,
APS-C is a 1.5x crop factor, so to have 16mp in crop, you multiply by the crop factor and get 24mp for full frame. Why do so many keep saying it’s double? Four thirds/MFT is a 2x crop factor. 32mp could be a full frame version of the Olympus OM-D E-M5’s 16mp Sony sensor. 32mp would give 21.3mp in crop mode.
You use crop factor to get equivalent focal length. But area of full frame is more than double APS-C and needs a corresponding increase in pixels. fullframe=36×24=864mm2 APS-C= 24×16=384mm2 ratio is 2.25 : 1
Dear pipo,
please don’t miss anymore of your math 101 classes.
signed,
society
p.s. calxn and John Maverick are right.
6) The camera has a native E-mount and both E-mount and A-mount lenses will be fully supported.
LIKE LIKE LIKE! OH YEAH!
People are asking lots of questions, but the only real question that truly matters: Can a Leica lens be used effectively on this new camera? Is a mount possible?
LOL doesnt really matter tbh. why dont you buy an m9? its puzzling tbh!
Well, since the VG-900, and the Alpha-99 it’s almost open secret that this would how it come to be. Sony need new native E mount FF lens though
Better have FF Pancake lenses or I’m gone.
A FF NEX… and the lens?? cant compete with a leica 😛 really… your sentence is a fanboy sentence ..sony can do great electronic, but leave photography for the big and fly down… leica lenses are the best in the world for the small size and resolution and construct quality and focus and i can continue here 😉 nex can compete with family photographers or… maybe with playstation users too 😉
ONLY A FILM IC CHIP SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONY do you coppy?
fredrik……. leica lenses are indeed some of the best in the world. That’s why I use them on a Nex 7! The adapters required are tiny and the controls are and functions are excellent. Yes, Leica quality is still better, just not £5k better anymore!
please correct me if I’m wrong but a full frame sensor is much bigger then APC-S ones. that’s why lenses are different. so nex e mount lenses will be smaller then the size of the full frame sensor…. so it will be like nikon. like a DX lens on a FX body. it’s really a piece of crap then. sure you can use a mount lenses but then it will be huge.
still, it will be great camera and a game changer.
Would buy one if its got a mic input and I suspect it will ~ I have used canon for the last 10 years and I was simply stunned when they produced the EOS-M with two lenes ~ they missed the boat if they had hit the market with a full frame mirrorless with ef mount pancakes 22 50 and a fast zoom they would have hit the mark ! I will wait now I am getting good results with my 60d’s time is on my side!
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!
Seriously, though, if this is basically a FF NEX-7, then I’m all aboard.
microlenses! my only wish.
This is AWESOME news! I am now putting my camera purcheses on hold until this baby comes out. Finally aony is making some sense! Love the full frame. I just hope they can remove rhat magenta over tonevproblem that the nex7 had! I also hope sony slightly improves the color over the nex7. Nex7 had kind of biased toward reda orange and browns hopefully they can lighten up and improve tje color. Nex5n and leica m9 have more appealing color to me. Finaly i really hope that they offer it without an AA filter. Look at how well m9 and xpro1 perform in sharpness because of the lack of AA filter. Hopefully it will at least be an option like nikond800 and d800E.
Great news, if accurate. My only comments would be – another vote for a lower megapixel but clean-at-high-ISO sensor. I never really needed more than 16 GOOD megapixels even for wall sized enlargements (assuming my technique both in capture and processing was spot on) – it’s more about great ISO performance, how clean the image is, good colour rendition, dynamic range, etc. some great, fast, primes and zooms, not just sharp but with good rendition and bokeh will be required too if Sony wish to compete with the best on this one. And full manual control over video with 24p options, etc., as many FF users such as myself now use FF cameras for film making too, but would love to ditch the big, ugly, heavy DSLR for something like a FF NEX if it’s genuinely a viable, flexible, alternative. Sony have the video prowess to ensure this. Oh and forget AF for video. No pro DPs use it, it’s nonsense.
I’d like an A99 ‘lite’. Fewer bells and whistles, no video, not even 12 fps. Just a FF with a high quality sensor at about half current A99 price. Any chance??
Antonym.
If the new FF pro camera has the look of a consumer camera I.e NEX. Pro shooters will not buy it. If they think otherwise then they don’t know their market!