[shoplink 13162 ebay]
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Image on top: The [shoplink 13162 ebay]Dynax 9 battery grip (here on eBay)[/shoplink].
DynaxDigital forum user REX posted some A99 report, the A99 has:
Dual focus system-first
Battery grip like [shoplink 13162 ebay]Dynax 9[/shoplink]-The battery in the body of the camera stays in so you can have additional another two in the grip
1 pure SD and one SD/MS slot like a77
Perfect camera for video because a lot of accessories are for video made
The camera is incredible fast on autofocus….
Now SAR reader, you can guess what “Dual focus system” means 🙂
118 Responses
Manual audio? Headphone jack?
If it is similar to Dynax 9 grip, it will be one of the best grip.
PDAF assisted with CDAF?
What for? It’s SLT. No need to cripple yourself with CDAF. Besides – guy told that A99 has ” incredible fast ” AF so it cannot have anything in common with CDAF.
Perhaps assisting for precise focusing would do but I doubt it’ll happen.
well they can do PDAF then after that CDAF to make sure it nails it dead on. It is time to make the slow and fast AF in their menu meaningful.
here’s two reasons:
1. No lens focus calibration required – it can do it automatically.
2. PDAF can be too fast in video, it give nasty focus jumps especially as you can neither adjust the speed or sensitivity on the existing SLTs
One final thing…why didn’t they do all this on the A77, everything for the feedback loop is already there (focus microadjustment, peaking and AF drive), but then they also missed out clean HDMI and thats not exactly rocket science, dont downres and remove info overlays….done. It wouldn’t hurt A99 sales either as that’ll have plenty more plus points over the 77 even with those additions. But its still a nice camera either way.
What do you mean? Sure you can adjust focusing speed in A77. There’s only “fast” and “slow” option, but it is in there.
Besides – slow CDAF looks like that:
forward….forward….forward….forward….backwards…forwards..backwards.forwards.stop!
not really fun…. 😉
“What do you mean? Sure you can adjust focusing speed in A77. There’s only “fast” and “slow” option, but it is in there.”
Right, but even slow mode PDAF wouldn’t eliminate back or front focus issues that otherwise have to be resolved with microadjust or physical calibration.
“Besides – slow CDAF looks like that:
forward….forward….forward….forward….backwards…forwards..backwards.forwards.stop!
not really fun…”
But maybe when it is combined with PDAF, that is no longer an issue.
I’d rather have option of slower AF but pin sharp and faster AF as it is today. The slower will also use CDAF after PDAF confirm focus. There is not much different in term of AF speed and accuracy with both current slow and fast AF in A77. The slower will also use CDAF after PDAF confirm focus.
Wow… suddenly everyone have focusing issues? Either send your DSLR to calibration or learn to use micro-adjustments. Auto-calibration isn’t necessary thing, but it is in did a good feature.
Yet people managed to live just fine without it so no idea why all the whining suddenly and the need for “slower AF but pin sharp” – as if it’d be impossible to make pinsharp photos currently. lol
“But maybe when it is combined with PDAF, that is no longer an issue.” – I think you don’t understand how CDAF works. It is an issue with CDAF, not an issue with PDAF which goes straight into the point – no crazy focus hunting.
“I think you don’t understand how CDAF works. It is an issue with CDAF, not an issue with PDAF which goes straight into the point – no crazy focus hunting.”
I think you don’t have any idea how this dual system might work – none of us do. CDAF is more accurate, so one possibility is that the PDAF does the leg work, but then CDAF kicks in at the final stage to provide the accuracy. Provided Sony can make the two systems communicate effectively, I don’t see why this couldn’t work.
But yeah, keep telling yourself that PDAF is perfect.
“Perfect Camera for Video”
So not the perfect camera for stills?
There is an obsession with video. Stills tends to get forgotten, it’s why the A77 lacks basic stuff like tethering, it gets lost in the rush to concentrate on the “sexy” marketing stuff.
FWIW, I’m interested in the A99 primarily for video. Since I have a few FF Alpha lenses and the FS100, it would be interesting to have as a B-cam.
well the A77 lacks clean HDMI out, so clearly it wasn’t exactly perfect for video-people either….
Why clean HDMI is needed when you have the “perfect camera” to capture the shot?
http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2012-07-23
This is the PDAF+CDAF patent
Interesting!
Any English version available?
Google translation is good enough.
***It will automatically compensate for PDAF errors by using CDAF.***
It means no more manual microfocus adjustment. It will work for all focusing distances. Great!
Open link in Chrome
@ahshing
When was that patent filed?
The patent was filed 2010.12.27 and released on 2012.7.19, which makes sense if they are just about to use it in a camera.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it – but I’d guess 102 focus points means something like 51 regular PD AF points and 51 PD+CD AF points (“Dual focus system”). The latter would give you nearly the speed of PD AF and the accuracy of CD AF – and could probably also be used to automatically micro adjust lenses. PD+CD AF might also overcome focus shift. Since the system seems to rely on the SLT mirror (or a modified version) Sony going down that route makes a little more sense now.
With all the AF problems reported in some D800 cameras, if it works well this could look like a plus for Sony.
I hope these pictures from the patent mean soon NEX-7 and EA2 will get FW update to improve focusing!!!
no headphone jack no buy, hopefully zebra and peaking too
I can buy you an iPod!
That has an headphones jack!
for people in the news/media business video is pretty important now, you can’t just be a photographer anymore. without a headphone jack you can’t monitor sound at all, which is a major issue.
If there is no audio control and somebody really wants it, there’s always digital recorders that have phantom power.
But by then you might as well look at a small chip camcorder.
I suggest buying a Zoom H1 for under a $100… use the headphone out on it.. and it has built-in x-y pattern stereo mics for superb recording capability (in either wav or mp3 formats).
Since peaking is present in even the lower end A57 its practically a given that it will be there in the A99. Hopefully headphone jack will also be there.
Headphone jack is useless to me but its inclusion shouldn’t increase the price of the camera by much if at all.
Welcome the good news. Yet, Sony needs better marketing to support the cameras.
please sony do not release this camera!!! it will kill the photographers job all they will need to do is point and click super fast autofocus will be like cheating
WTF, in that case we have been cheating ever since AF and programmable cameras were first introduced lol. I am sure it will have a manual mode and allow manual focus so you will not feel so guilty.
Si
I’m thinking you should’ve read more sarcasm in jon’s post.
Or maybe I should read more sarcasm in yours…
I Think…… CDAF + PDAF……in the same time?
this is not a first ever dual focus system! every camera has manual and autofocus!
*faints*
I can’t guess what “Dual focus system” means… Could you explain?
Dual-focus system = moveable pellicle mirror?
PDAF when down, CDAF when up?
That would be a killer setup for video and ultimate low-light sensitivity.
Interesting idea.
+1.
But there was an SR5 rumor that A99 won’t have flip-up mode for single shooting.
Perhaps in A99 MkII ;]
I think by the time A99 mark 2 is ship, it will be completely mirrorless and have on sensor PDAF + CDAF.
Too early for that. So far PDAF on sensor is crap. And it’ll likely take many long years till it matches current fully-sized sensors. There’s a reason why Canon’s PDAF on sensor is considered one of the worst AF in video on the market.
Yes, it’s true. Until that CPUs in cameras become powerful enough to get rid of inefficient PDAF at all.
I think you misunderstand something – CDAF is an inefficient way of focusing. You need too many measurements to set correct focus, and no amount of CPU power will change it. What it might change is making CDAF somewhat “acceptable”, as for example Panasonic did if you use a correct set of lens + body.
Sir, I see silly logic mistake:
What property PDAF has that makes it superior over the CDAF speedwise?
It’s ability of to make an estimation of approximate distance and direction where to focus. Let’s name this property as P. Let PD (phase detection) = A and CD (contrast detection) = B. Then we have P(A) and ⅂P(B) (this means P(A)=true, P(B)=false).
And your mistake is your implication for the given autofocusing method X, such as P(X) that X=A (P(X) → X=A). This is nonsense. There’s so called PSF detection set of defocus estimation algorithms that are designed to be able to perform these estimations as well.
I mind this set when told about the time for CPU to become faster: they are quite resource hungry. Definitely too hungry for current processors used in cameras. But this will tend to become less an issue every year nowdays — we are living in the times when mobile devices become more and more powerful. So cameras will benifit from this advancement as well.
In fact, PDAF is doomed, since PSF detection approach has only one disadvantage I mentioned above and a whole lot of advantages (although it shares some PDAF drawbacks, such as dependence on lens sample variation.):
1) It’s based on image analysis. So the shortcoming I’ve just mentioned is resolved much easier than recalibration of PDAF array. This can be performed automatically: mount a lens then start recalibration protocol. All will be done without your interaction. Additionally, scene analysis can be executed during focusing, so less stupid mistakes here.
2) No mechanical parts, just sensor and lens. Cheaper.
3) With PDAF we usually have only about 30% of light to transfer into PD sensors array. With image based approach we depends only on the sensor light loss (up to 50% of light transferred with bayer filter). With possible future multilayer sensors light loss should be less. So, we have more light for AF too → higher focusing precision, faster focusing speed.
4) It can focus at any point of an image (a little limitation here though, due to so called “convolution” and “deconvolution” definitions, but not as restrictive as PD’s fixed points)
Its not worth the R&D to Sony for the very limited gain in IQ!
I think when people talk about moveable mirror in SLT, some people get the wrong idea that we’re talking about the same type of performance (i.e. something able to flap around at 1/4000s) as in an SLR… in which case would make the whole SLT thing pointless for-the-most-part aside from the live-view/EVF functionality.
No, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to have a moveable pellicle mirror on a slightly more complicated hinge system (Sony is REALLY adept at these sort of small mechanisms, which is why I used to collect Walkmans before they were vintage) to clear the lens and other spacial constraints… because we’re only talking about a moveable pellicle mirror, maybe something that moves at 1/2s speeds, and maybe only for a 5000 cycles.
The idea is not that it flaps with the shutter, but that it gets out of the way when 1) you are in a mode that prioritizes image quality over focus speed (i.e. most non-action shots) 2) and can be moved out of the way by the user.
This way you can have both ultimate image quality and low-light performance, plus the sort of shot rate that is only limited by the shutter speed… with no mirror slap.
The beamsplitter is not going to move.
Dual Focus could be PDAF when aperture is F3.5 or bigger and CDAF else (if using SAM or SSM lens).
This has something to do with an extra focus point at the center?
No idea really what it could mean.. How long before some pictures of the beast? 😀
+1 We want pictures! 🙂
Looks like it is 51 points PDAF on a dedicate AF sensor + 51 points hybrid PDAF/CDAF on sensor
so that means the translucent glass can flip up if needed!
No. CDAF still occurs through the beamsplitter.
I think that Peter is saying that the hybrid system is there so that the mirror can be flipped up.
You’re assuming a different purpose for any CDAF system that might be in the A99.
I do agree with you though – I don’t think Sony will allow the mirror to be flipped up, and last I heard it is technically impossible with a lens attached, so would require a very clever mechanism to enable it to do so.
No chance!
Something like A900 got would do the job well – raise mirror up and backwards instead of simply flipping it. 🙂
True Lotus. I am just confounded how many people read this and said/thought/hoped “The beamsplitter can/will flip up!”
audio level and monitoring audio-out jack will be very appreciated for video (if they really want to promote the camera for video too) and why not, wireless tethering.
and now, where is that zeiss 50mm f1.4???
http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2012-07-23
The translate for above PDAF+CDAF patent,which means PDAF boost the lens detecting subject,while CDAF confirming the most accurate focus point,and the CDAF will memorize the AF adjustment for each lens,rather than users input the AF micro adjustment manually.Don’t think about Mirror Lock Up mode for DSLT,it’s USELESS.
1/3 EV less noise is uselss for you? Trolololololo, keep on trolling. 😉
I’m trying to figure out if you’re being serious Sky_walker.
“Now SAR reader, you can guess what “Dual focus system” means”
We can guess, but we’d much rather you told us, assuming you know the answer…
If that is indeed something along the lines of PDAF assisted by CDAF (in whatever form), that’s indeed the best news I’ve heard for a long while.
Lets hope its better than Canon’s version in their EOS-M.
If you look at the recent Lens Rental results with the new Canon 5Dm3 and new lenses they are achieving a quick focus using PDF but also getting extremely accurate focus like CDAF. How Canon is doing this is not discussed but it does require both the newest bodies and the newest lenses for it to work. Hopefully Sony can get similar results but not require the latest lenses for success. I suspect that it will require SSM lenses or perhaps the new version of SAM.
The older SAM lenses do work with the contrast AF of the NEX when using the LA-EA1 adapter, albeit fairly slowly, so I’d hope they could work with whatever this dual system is in the A99, and future cameras (this assumes it is something to do with contrast AF). You could well be right in that newer SAM lenses will work better with this new system though.
“Battery grip like Dynax 9-The battery in the body of the camera stays in so you can have additional another two in the grip”
I assume you can take off the battery in the body without uninstalling the grip, right?
It will be intersting if 3 batts is not enough for the day.
The batteries in the Dynax/Maxxum 9 were totally different from the ones used today, and power consumption was much lower. The grip could house three different types of batteries, the body only one.
Having a battery in the camera while adding a battery grip will only add to the complexity of the electrical circuitry – and replacing the in-body battery will be annoying to say the least.
Well, having three batteries of which two can be changed easily is at least a better option than having two easily changeable batteries, right? And the big advantage is that if you want to add/remove the batterygrip, in all cases power is uninterrupted (assuming partially full batteries)!
In addition, the circuitry doesn’t need to be much more complex, there only has to be an extra connection from grip to body.
With the 9 and 7, it’s also possible to have multiple grips full of batters, and quickly swap out the entire grip when it runs out, though you’d struggle to burn through that much battery with a film camera.
Soooo $5oo a pop
😉
Hell, with what they cost I hardly see anybody doing that.
Well, I paid quite a bit less for my A900’s grip, but it’s certainly an expensive option. But then, most of us don’t go through substantially more than three batteries in one shoot, and those that do are probably pros shooting particularly long events (video?) who can justify it as part of the cost of doing business.
I may be the only one, but I don’t take the vertical grip off my A900 every time I’ve been out shooting.
The battery “clip” from the A700’s vertical grip is identical to the A900’s, so if you have both, but only use one, you can exchange a full set of batteries in a matter of 5 or 10 seconds.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the A99 used the same “clip” …
Wouldn’t count on it.
Does this mean that the new NEX-series also might have PDAF+CDAF? Or will Sony try and sell as many A99 as possible by waiting a generation?
Not in the same sense it won’t. The A99 will have a dedicated PDAF module at the top of the camera. Any PDAF on the NEX series would be sensor based, and, with current technology, not be as good.
Wow…
If the dual (CDAF+PDAF) came true…
It will be amazing…
Nikon introduced it in 1″ body
Canon in APS-C
Sony will do it in FF
But I never understood why sony did not made that in all SLTs (CDAF + PDAF)
Not necessary both on same time… But at least on camera switch.
SLT is a unique design (instead of classical SLR) that allows both CDAF and PDAF in both Liveview and Viewfinder situations for Free! (I mean without any new tech as PDAF on sensor…)
Well, Canon APS-C models use CDAF assisted by PDAF (in a effort to try to get faster AF on video), while Sony will use it the other way around. What’s the difference? Sony will always be faster and now, more precise.
@Andrea:
Just minor error in reporting “Dual focus system-first”
You should report “Dual focus system”
Rex: Dual focus system-first time i hear about this
“first time i hear about this” is just a comment by Rex.
This gets better and better! The batterygrip is the best solution there is. But I was wondering about the dual focus system, since it appears to me that Sony means something different than contrast AF considering this: Imaging-Surface Phase Difference AF-function. Seems like on sensor PDAF combined with off sensor PDAF.
Pherhaps the possibility to flip up the SLT-mirror and when doing so using CDAF, so we have two operating-modes. Fast SLT PDAF and a slower mode without the beam-splitter stealing any light.
Just guessing. We will soon understand.
/Mats
i hope not, removing a moving part (the mirror) was a great step up, adding now a new moving part is not worth for, at least for me, the extra 1/3 stop of light
The beamsplitter will not flip up on the 99.
phase AND contrast autofocussing?
Sony will hopefully introduce a slate of new moderately priced lenses with this new Full Frame body to keep the loyal users happy. Especially primes incl macro’s like 50/100/180 with SSM. Moderately priced zooms too would be nice, not mostly CZ like they did with A900 but regular mid-range prosumer quality for the rest of us non-pro’s. Like the Minolta line up back in the early 2000’s some of which was licensed from Tamron (17-35, 28-75, etc).
Without those new lenses the new FF body will be less then complete, unless you have deep pockets and can afford $2,000 each for CZ. I personally could not bring myself to spend that kind of money and also got tired of waiting for the new FF with video, so I switched to a different line of equipment last year.
I am now selling my entire collection of Minolta glass on ebay – everything is in super clean shape and works as new. Pleas feel free to check it out under ‘dvpnyc’
Andrea – I enjoyed reading your posts in the last couple of years – keep up the good work!
why do you need SSM in Macro lenses? macro photography is normally made in manual focus, so why add cost to a lens with a feature you wont use? Sony already has 3 good macro lenses
30/2.8, this one its APS-C
50/2.8
100/2.8
only the 180mm is missing, but you can find it with a tamron badge, and it will fit in a Sony, so no problem
Sony also has a cheap alternative to the Zeiss 24-70, the Sony 28-75/2.8, you also have third party options, tamron has the 28-75/2.8, 24-70/2.8, Sigma has a 24-70, they also have different optins for the 16-35 zeiss!
if you changed brand because you needed fullframe video i understand, but lack of lenses its not that big of a deal, there are plenty of options, i still remember the transition from minolta to Sony, does where hard times, it was almost impossible to find anything to my minoltas, even a wired release cable was hard to find, now Sony user have more options then minoltians ever had 🙂
I checked the Canon lens line-up a few weeks back, they have 4 50mm lenses, and 5 zooms in the range of 70(75)-300.
So, yes, they have more lenses, but do they add that much?
Many lenses are available in both IS and non-IS versions, how shall an IBIS system duplicate that? Where is the need?
OTOH, Canon lacks many stabilised primes!
Some of the lens discussion/whining is not easy to understand…
/E
And how many of them are actually a current generation? 😉
I can’t understand anyone praising any battery grip. Isn’t about the time to have a sensor capable for portrait/landscape/square composition just by pressing a button? SLT cameras have electronic viewfinder. Why it isn’t articulated as the display is? Why it isn’t better placed as the NEX-7 has? Still the same old SLR how camera should look and work.
For extra juice? Modern DSLR, particularly EVF based, consumes more power than their SLR counterparts. So extra battery is always welcomed.
This a99 (assuming that is going to be the final name) beast is getting “meatier” by the day!
Anyone hoping for a mirror flip-up mode should bear this in mind:
http://illuminate.sony.com.sg/wp-content/uploads/O-Mirror-Up.jpg
Yes and that is just APS-c size mirror.
Who says that the mirror needs to flip out?
It could slide to the right and disappear in the grip. 😉
You could be right. They might even offer the option to teleport it into the Cloud.
If this is the case, and Sony can pull off a truly fast CDAF, say goodbye to any sort of mirror in Sony cameras….
Even if the mirror could be move, it’d be the stupidest thing in the world for Sony to do. Why go through all the SLT economy of a non-moving object and the cancel it by having it move, with a mechanism, complexities and added weight.
I love it when “3 batteries” is transformed into “We can’t access one immediately”.
At least no one is asking for an OVF or a pancake 8-400 tilt-shift G-zeiss-Leica-Voigtländer that fits A-mount an E-mount
To have an option. Either you shoot without raising the mirror – for continuous shooting or lack of any vibrations – or you raise the mirror – for DxO Mark testing and better low-light performance.
Simple as that. No idea why some ppl can’t comprehend this. It’s VERY simple thing.
ouh you forgot, it has to be a 2.8! ;D
no seriously, i totaly agree with you.
3 batteries would be an awesome feature and you can still access two of them immediatly. In my eyes thats better then having “only” 2 batteries.
2.8??? Are you kidding???
With a 2.8 why don’t you just shoot with your phone.
It’s gotta be at least 1.8. 🙂
I still can’t imagine that getting an extra battery counts as something bad.
…and maybe they’ll start clamoring for a firmware update (and complaining about it) before they see the camera.
But the mechanism won’t be a very simple thing.
“for DxO Mark testing” LOL!
Sure, it can be done, it isn’t worth the effort, though.
The SLT is a feature, not a bug.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SKYWALKER “or for dxo mark testing”
YESSS! YES! CLEARLY THE MOST IMPORTANT AREA OF PERFORMANCE FOR THIS CAMERA
ARE YOU KIDDING ME
The “leave the battery in the body and add another in the grip” idea had also been used in Nikon cameras as well. I can’t understand why someone still wants to pick a bone and say this is bad. Really, what is the problem?
For me there’s no problem, as long as I don’t have to uninstall the grip to charge the battery in the body. Right?
How often would you want to do that? Why not just use the 2 batteries in the grip and only use the third in body for non-grip shooting? Or use the third as a back up battery, and charge it at the end of the day?
In addition, your problem can be solved easily when Sony adds USB-charging function to the camera.
Used to be (with Minolta) the 8xx series foretold of new designs. The 8xx series was always an evolution of retaining the best from the current 7xx and 9xx series, while previewing what to expect as their replacement.
Now Sony uses 9xx series to demonstrate new design philosophy, preparing the rest of newer lineup for similar revision, departing from previous. They’ve turned the 8xx series into just a muted version of 9xx series. No longer will the 8xx’s foretell and lead into the new. They will be the last of the old.
I can’t follow this. The only 8 series Minolta cams were the 8000i (much of a warmed over 7000i rather than a preview of the 7xi) and the 800si, not much innovation here either, souped-up 700si with a huge flash and more 600si-style interface. Same goes for the Sony A850. Innovations were largely introduced with the 7-series, 9-series added the pro-build quality.
The 8000i introduced 1/8000th and 1/200th sync to the 7xi and 9xi. Unfortunately its PC port only survived the 9xi and not the 7xi. The 7000 and 7000i didn’t have either.
The 800si foretold the end of the Expansion Card era (while still an SI). It doesn’t accept the cards. Neither did the Max 7 or 9. The 800si was also the beginning of 7 series getting a PC port built into camera. No other 7 series had built in PC port until the 800si did it first. The shutter speed range and flash sync were retained for all future 7’s and 9’s too.
Too easy to guess
http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2012-07-23
wonder why sar never pick these patents to report.
I hope it is 2nd patent in link, PDAF first, then CDAF to fine tune
3RD post for this link now
How would you design a battery grip that covers the bottom part (where the battery door is) and enable the removal of the battery in the camera without removing the grip? You will need to design a hole for the battery to slide through the grip. That will be a crazy idea, and frankly speaking, not an idea I particularly fancy. Look at the Gariz leather half case for the Nex-7. Now imagine a a99 grip with that hole. I don’t even know how you are going to trigger the shutter button when held in a portrait orientation.
The sidestep to this, of course, would be to load the battery from the side of the camera. But I don’t see Sony doing this for the a99…
Maybe batteries can be charged while being in camera.
Then you could easily replace 2 batteries in the grip while working and charge the full three set when you are back in the office.
How does all this AF talk fit in with the Foveon type sensor patent? When will see the next generation tech in Sony bodies?
There was a rumor before saying A99 takes both E mount and Alpha mount lenses. I think it is proven that it a mistranslation and it means the cheap and easy dual focus technology.