Some of you wanted to see the [shoplink 8461]Sony A77[/shoplink] sensor to be used in a classic DSLR camera. Sony isn’t doing it but it is selling the same sensor to Nikon. And according to Nikonrumors there will be a new D3200 DSLR camera in April using that Sony sensor.
Just my two cent speculation: It sounds like the Sony-Nikon sensor partnership works that way: In the APS-C league Sony has a six months exclusive use of the sensor and after that time shares it to Nikon. Full Frame sensors are sold with a 6-12 months exclusivity to Nikon and can than be used by Sony cameras. The Nikon D80 FF camera has been announced in February and we can expect a Sony SLT camera with the same sensor by September at earliest. Meantime Nikon is selling tons of D800 cameras at Amazon (Click here to read the high deman statement). Hope Sony is not missing the Full Frame train by allowing such an advantage to Nikon. The new A99 has to be close to perfection to beat this!
P.S.: As I already told you, Canon is eating his balls with the 5DmarkIII. The Nikon sales are much higher (Check Amazon rankings). By the way, Mike Kobal compared the new 5D versus NEX-7 video quality (via CanonWatch).
UPDATE: Some here still do not believe Nikon uses Sony sensors. Just loook at that D7000 chip: http://www.chipworks.com/media/wpmu/uploads/blogs.dir/4/files/2011/01/IMX071_diemrk.jpg. Can you read it? 😉
155 Responses
“As I alredy told you, Canon is eating his balls with the 5DmarkIII.”
I am trying to visualise this. LOL.
🙂
Admin, you want to say “Canon is eating Nikon’s dust” or better, “Nikon is is eating Canon’s lunch”…
“Eating his balls” makes no sense, and can be awkwardly misinterpreted.
but canon sold many more then sony full frame. so canon eat big balls while sony eat the little balls
If i would buy a ff body now, i’ll buy the canon. I dont need 36 megapixel, i want good noise preformence, and the canon 5d mIII does that great. the decision is made by what you need.
why sells the nikon better, the d800 is a big step from the d700 and the mark II to the mark III not.
The Nikon D800 noise performance is just as good as the 5DIII and without banding. The Sony sensor in the D800 is simply more advanced.
The Nikon D800 noise performance is just as good as the 5DIII and without banding.
Canon can eat his ball but we are very pleased with 5d III and see the 1dx… the new king of cameras… Sonikon cant even go further with that sluggy model.. d800 324324MP and sony 213213af point : crap…
canon is the only brand that give us what we need for a solid work and this is why all pro use CANON ^_^
All? Tell us please how do you, single person, can ask all the pro’s what they using?
P.S. By the way, you are definitely not a pro user 😉
ahaha sure! i work with canon and a film technorama 617 its all i need, i tried sony and….. so crap!! all my mentors use canon or pentax… but pentax is died. sob.. sob sony playstation
I don’t know of any more ignorant people then the type you are LOERI
I have both Canon and Sony and my Sony NEX-7 kick’s my Canon 7D and my canon 1D Mark IV.
And everybody that has a clue i guess you sold your on e-bay know that as of today the best sensor for SLR/SLT cameras comes from SONY no questions asked.
Any media expert’s institutes that measure and the best PRO’s in the world has for the moment picked the Nikon D800 as clear winner.
The smaler format ILC has the Sony NEX-7 as a clear winner
What can i say CONY sensor.
Come back when the rest of the world has told us something we dont already know
SONY rock’s
And i am a Pro
LOER
post a link to your web site please – I am curious to see your work. Maybe I will learn a thing or two about composition, use of light, etc – you know, the things that matter most in photography.
You people should all take a look at the paintings of the old masters, not some point and shutter click. Anyone can pull a trigger on a gun, anyone can click a camera shutter.
lol sure, go and believe dxo mark hohohoho! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbXiECmCZ94
Pros uses Medium Format like Hasselblad and Mamiya, to them, Canon might be as well as another P&S toys…
I am not a pro but I exchange emails with one who is using a nex 7. A pro photojournalist using the nex 7.
http://www.maximilianobraun.net
I dont know if those are taken with the nex or not but his flickr account has plenty of nex 7 shots
http://www.flickr.com/photos/maximilianobraun/
he works with getty images and he is really kind to explain why of his nex 7 purchase
This statement makes no sense as it generalized all pro togs. Wedding, PJ, sports pro’s don’t have a place for MF in their work.
Here is an example of a guy at the very top of his profession – a long time Canon user. Those in the wedding photo business do not need to ask who he is…
http://loveunscripted.com/
You should be a comedian!!! hahaha
I guess pros like Joe Mcnally and Ken Rockwell don’t realize they use Nikon cameras ! 😉
Ken Rockwell….LMFAO
Ren Kockwell is a black eye to Nikon users. He feels like he must be the first out there to review something and it always ends up with a sweeping generalization that won’t hold the road. Two weeks later he’ll say the exact opposite taking about some other new gear.
Please support me taking photograph of my kids with a small 50$/month donation (I’m not kidding, he put in the option of a 50$/month donation)
I don’t think you can make those conclusions on the partnership with regards to who get what and when. May not even be a partnership, but just some business here and there.
So Nikon is going to get the best APS sensor and put it in a camera that costs less than $600- and we won’t have to fool with the SLT? Does that sound plausible? If it is, that’s awesome news.
You can fool with a peephole viewfinder instead. 😉
I am sure your photography skills are vastly superior to Kens for you to be able to make such a comment. Plus he is an ok tog but a big gear geek. So pls send a link to your site so we can all see your pictures and see why you can talk down on him
Not sure why this was placed here, but you don’t have to be a top photographer or even a mediocre one to criticize the rubbish Ken often spouts around to get traffic to his website. It’s just that obvious.
Jim, I’m a Nikon shooter, and those who say Ken Rockwell is a black eye for us are right. NOBODY takes him seriously for a variety of reasons. He’s way too arrogant in his reviews, and he often reviews stuff he actually doesn’t have – lenses mostly. Basically, he will write that lens X is crap, use the Nikkor 28-300 which is good for everything. Before this, he used to say the same about the 18-200 DX lens.
Also, he has lots of misleading information on his website. For example, he says that “real men shoot JPEG” – whatever that means… How can someone be so unprofessional as to link the format we choose to manliness. Oh, and you know why? Because RAW is a hoax, and he calls film the “real raw.”
As to his photography… have you seen his recent work? By recent, I mean the past 20 years 😉 It’s all the same oversaturated desert scenes or people with orange face. Basically, most of his photos are acceptable, which is a nice way to say mediocre 😉 There are some nice captures here and there, but there are some awful ones as well. Photographically, he hasn’t done anything interesting or outstanding for 20 years! He is, however, good at marketing himself and SEO of course.
I cringe when his name comes up in conversations, and so do most Nikon users. Thankfully, he seems to be switching to Canon though 😉
BW,
You’re wrong. Very, very wrong. I know for a fact that Sony has a contract with Nikon that gives them exclusivity for the period defined. No conspiracy theory, just the nature of business and one of the stipulations of the agreement that Sony has with Nikon. If Sony agrees to extend this contract I may very well jump back to Nikon. Like I’ve said in other posts this year is make or break for me and Sony. The a99 better be well worth the wait.
I learned of this at Ohio University’s Vis Com school; they get Canon and Nikon equipment for students to utilize. Reps from both came often.
You really ought to rethink your strategy and attitude – to say nothing of your crass assumptions – before hurling insults at people who actually know what they are talking about.
If this is true a sub-$600 camera will provide better image quality than the A77 (no SLT to deal with). AWESOME! Of course the A77 will still be superior in a number of ways. But I think this is great news.
It will give you a tiny less light loss, not better IQ.
Fair enough. So I wonder what sensor Sony is going to put in the A37?
Same as A57.
I am 100% sure that the new Nikon cam will give better results, but in all probability it will only be noticeable by pixel peepers unless you are shooting at some extreme high ISOs like 6400+
Its just like the Nikon D5100 giving better IQ than their top of the line APS-C DSLR the D300s. I am sure most people would pick a D300s over a D5100 anyday. 🙂
@Brendon, don’t confuse high ISO with IQ, it’s a very common mistake here unfortunately.
yea like that .5 f stop is going to hurt your photographs that much.
@Jeff
So you learned all this from Reps?
😉
John,
From reps and university faculty as well as people at Sony. Keep in mind that OU has one of the top PJ programs in the world. I think they know what’s going on better than internet forum trolls.
Hearsay from a “rep” does not equal fact. Even if a simple rep would be aware of such a contract, their job is to NOT leak such information to the public, unless their employer wants them to. And if that were the case, we all would have read about it by now in an official statement.
So yeah, a couple of red flags.
Spoon,
Why do people like you insist on coming to public forums and demonstrating to the world how utterly clueless and arrogant you are? How many people do you know at Sony? Not nearly as many people as I do.
The information I imparted is not hearsay. Not at all. It’s not some big surprise – and certainly no conspiracy – that Sony has a contract with Nikon and that this contract has a limited exclusivity stipulation written into it.
The majority of the people I see commenting on these forums really should do some research – and a lot more thinking – before posting on here; I’m seeing a lot of heat and very little light coming from most of you.
Just go to any university with a serious photography program and ask some simple questions. Or visit Sony in LA or San Diego.
Forget APS-C, tell me more about the Full Frame 24MP sensor and a Full Frame NEX!
Full frame NEX will be my next purchase.
It doesn’t make any sence to put that sensor in an entry level camera. More probably it wil be in the d300s replacement 😉
Why not ? For mass market a camera with 24mpx must be better than one with “only” 16mpx. But who really needs such megapixels ? And i guess the kit zoom is the same, not the best lense to take the most out of the sensor.
Many (if not all) of these agreements have strict non-disclosure clauses about the specifics.
I never cease to be amused how many Nikon users absolutely ‘$hit talk’ Sony… but fail to understand that many Nikon DLSR’s have Sony sensors in them.
There is no doubt that Sony is a perplexing company at times in regards to its DSLR camera division. It included built-in wireless support from the first model (A100). It provides the only autofocus equipped Zeiss lens in the world through their licensing arrangement. Use of a second sensor for unparalleled LiveView performance (*my Canon friend was recently blown away at the quality of screen/image on the A77 LiveView). These are just a few examples.
But then they leave out some crucial stuff: until recently none of their lenses were weather-sealed… absence of audio management tools of any sort… a perception that there may be no more optical veiwfinders in their cameras… and a lack of a dozen rock-solid primes for their excellent NEX series of cameras.
That having been said I still think they are the company that could really do some fascinating and ground-breaking work in the next two or three years.
Plus lets be frank… Japan experienced a massive environmental disaster in 2011… and then the Sony camera plant in Thailand was hit late last fall with a natural disaster of sorts that again affected the Sony camera division. These kinds of things do impact your product release time frames and plans.
I am proud to use Sony.
The above mentioned comparo between 5D versus NEX-7 video quality makes the following conclusion:
“…Surprise, the 5D3 kicks Nex 7′s gluteus maximus, I sure didn’t expect that from the FF sensor, either the Canon is very good or the Sony just terrible, your pick…”
Canon is THE market leader due to the fact they fully succeed in ALL aspects that are required to be successful in this game, not just in 1 or 2 of these:
(1) bodies
(2) glass
(3) sensors
(4) resulting IQ (still and video)
(5) customer oriented product dev-nt approach
Canon=Brady
Sony=Tibow
Jim
Tell me how the Canon perform when you have a moving car
It doesn’t the Auto-focus on Canon when shooting video is terrible even the support reps recommend you to use manual focus
On Sony NEX-7 you can use full auto-focus all all time
So who kick’s who’s ass
AF is not what’s important. Most DSLR video work is done with manual focus anyways – it least the ones worth watching. Most importantly it is shot with quality fast primes for DoF effects. How many “quality’ primes are out these for Nex system – exactly one (24MM) and it’s not even f1.4, plus APS sensor does not give you very good DoF effects in the first place as compared to FF.
Let’s be real: NEX or Panasonic or whatever will never come even close to creative potential and qaulity of video FF DSLR’s from Canon or Nikon. If Sony joins them at some point in time – great, but so far there is no signs that they will…The only reason people buy Nex cameras is for portability. They are cool little toys, and can delivery decent results in capable hands, but nothing more than that. I looked at it myself but opted for Fuji X100 instead
“AF is not what’s important. Most DSLR video work is done with manual focus anyways – it least the ones worth watching. Most importantly it is shot with quality fast primes for DoF effects. How many “quality’ primes are out these for Nex system – exactly one (24MM) and it’s not even f1.4, plus APS sensor does not give you very good DoF effects in the first place as compared to FF.”
Since auto focus isn’t important in video work almost any lens made can be made to work with E-mount including PL mount:
http://sonyalphanex.blogspot.ca/2011_03_01_archive.html
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sony+nex+pl+mount&_sacat=78997&_odkw=sony+nex&_osacat=78997
Some PL mount lenses:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sony+nex+pl+mount&_sacat=78997&_odkw=sony+nex&_osacat=78997
Some other adaptors for other mounts including your beloved Canon:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sony+nex+pl+mount&_sacat=78997&_odkw=sony+nex&_osacat=78997
‘The only reason people buy Nex cameras is for portability.”
More people buy NEX to use legacy glass than native E-mount lenses….SEE LINKS ABOVE
“plus APS sensor does not give you very good DoF effects in the first place as compared to FF.”
No question 24x36mmm sensor can give very shallow DOF which can be quite stunning and creative for certain shots BUT movies are unwatchable when the entire thing uses this effect.
Super 35 (re Canon C300)which is a motion picture standard is smaller than full frame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_35
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SensorSizes.svg
🙂
Someone sounds bitter. When Sony comes out with their FF A99 with video, what makes you so confident that it won’t hold a candle to Canon or Nikon? I think it will piss all over them. Video is Sony’s expertise.
Ask anybody who makes money off their videos whether they use autofocus … the answer is almost always “No”.
somebody is being realistic. Video expertise is in a division called Professional Services, and these folks are great. The Alpha line sits in the Digital Imaging and Personal Sound division. These two companies w/in Sony report to two different heads and are completely silo’ed – they don’t talk to each other as weird as it sounds. So continue dreaming and wishing folks, but the reality is not going to change just because a few of us (me included) would like to see Sony kick ass with a new FF – “if” it ever comes out.
of course video is sony expertise, that is the reason you have 1.8x crop on a77/a65 due to cannot turn off the stabilizer and which is we are not seeing at others 😀 lol…
Sure, that’s why the NEX FS700 will kick butt too. Because they don’t communicate. 😉
The 5D3 vs NEX7 video comparison is stupid, of course a FF sensor will beat an APSC sensor, why wouldn’t it? Dumb comparison.
Canon may be the current market leader but wont be for long–and its still eating its balls over the 5D3….objective observers see the camera as still a top camera but a weak showing compared to the competition and a downright inexcusable product after 4+ years of design & development.
Of your 5 criteria, Canon only still holds #2… but for how long?
APS-C is about Super35 size.
In which case Sony does beat Canon with the FS100.
Ähm… no one who is serious would use AF in video at all. So better no AF with great quality than perfect AF with lacking quality..
EE – I disagree w/ your last sentense. Canon is either #1 or #2 on all 5…Nikon takes the other 4 as a#1 or #2, Sony takes the #1 or #2 on sensors.
I am not making this stuff up or presenting it as my own personal opinion…This is what industry stock analysts are predicting based on their in-depth knowledge of intimate details of each company’s operations and strengths, and from constant contact w/ sr mgt at all companies in the mix…So here is a big picture for the next 5 years:
DSLR Market Trend
million units
Shipments 3/09 3/10 3/11 3/12E 3/13E 3/14E 3/15E 3/16E 3/17E
Market Share (%)
Nikon 36.7% 35.3% 31.4% 29.7% 34.1% 33.5% 33.4% 37.0% 37.1%
Canon 40.8% 42.3% 43.2% 44.6% 42.6% 41.4% 40.4% 38.6% 38.6%
Sony 11.8% 9.6% 12.5% 10.5% 10.2% 11.0% 11.6% 10.8% 10.9%
Pentax 2.5% 2.6% 2.4% 2.5% 2.1% 2.0% 1.9% 1.8% 1.7%
Olympus 4.3% 5.3% 3.7% 4.3% 3.0% 2.8% 2.6% 2.3% 2.1%
Panasonic 2.1% 2.9% 3.7% 4.3% 4.2% 5.1% 5.6% 5.6% 5.7%
Fuji Film 0.4% 0.0% 0.0% 1.2% 0.9% 0.8% 0.7% 0.6% 0.6%
Samsung Digital Imaging 1.1% 1.6% 2.9% 2.5% 2.8% 3.2% 3.5% 3.2% 3.1%
Others 32.2% 28.9% 29.3% 31.0% 23.1% 19.7% 17.6% 15.4% 14.3%
Total 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0%
Source: Company data and J.P. Morgan estimates.
Mirror-Less Camera Market Trend
million units
Shipments 3/09 3/10 3/11 3/12E 3/13E 3/14E 3/15E 3/16E 3/17E
Market Share (%)
Nikon – – 0.0% 15.1% 16.9% 18.6% 20.8% 23.3% 23.6%
Canon – – 0.0% 0.0% 16.9% 18.6% 21.7% 23.3% 23.6%
Sony – – 52.4% 40.9% 25.4% 21.1% 20.8% 21.7% 22.1%
Pentax – – 0.0% 0.0% 3.4% 2.5% 1.9% 1.6% 1.4%
Olympus – – 26.2% 18.9% 11.9% 9.3% 7.5% 6.2% 5.7%
Panasonic – – 20.9% 18.9% 11.9% 14.9% 14.2% 12.4% 12.1%
Fujifilm 0.0% 0.0% 3.4% 2.5% 1.9% 1.6% 1.4%
Samsung Digital Imaging – – 0.5% 6.3% 8.5% 9.9% 9.4% 8.5% 8.6%
Others 0.0% 0.0% 1.7% 2.5% 1.9% 1.6% 1.4%
Total – – 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0%
Source: Company data and J.P. Morgan estimates.
PS I am disappointed there was no outrage regarding my QB analogy – any FB fans on this board!?!
Jim, Kindly inform JPMorgan that there are no mirrorless canons out there. 🙂
Vivek,
Feel free to reach out to this guy yourself and slap him in the face with this mistake 😉
His contact info:
JPMorgan Securities Japan Co., Ltd.
Precision Instrument & SPE
Mr. Hisashi Moriyama
Tel. (81-3) 6736-8601
hisashi.moriyama@jpmorgan.com
There’s factual errors and illogical predictions in there and their trackrecord of predictions is a shaky one.
As worthy as anyone’s in here.
PS: you’re disappointed your trolling had little effect? 😉
5D3 against Nex, come on, I thought Canon could do better. 3 times more expensive, just a tad better… Compare Nex against T3i, Nex wins, compare 5D3 against D800, Nikon is obvious winner. don’t take my word for it, just live in planet Earth to find out. Canon is still good, just not the best.
+1!! this is the best comparison list I have read. Very good perspective.
Jim, analysts like JPMorgan are notoriously inaccurate at predicting changes in an industry. They just predict the continuation of current market trends. That is why they all completely missed every major stock market crash as well every disruptive market change brought on by new technology such as Apple’s recent dominance of the mobile and tablet market. If these market analysts were right Apple’s share price should still be $60 not $600.
Sonys future in every segment, be that DSLR/SLT, FF, Mirrorless, P&S, Video, will be determined by its ability to deliver market leading technology and innovation. If it does this its share will rise, if it does not it will lose share. Recent evidence suggests that Sony leads on sensor technology and miniturisation. So it is obvious that Sony has the potential it just needs to follow through with the execution.
Spike I will post a Goldman prediction about Sony later today. Talking about changes in the industry and how it applies to Sony!
Sony needs to make some very good E-mount lenses for the NEX
http://www.eoshd.com/content/7671/which-to-get-as-a-low-budget-shooter-5d-mark-iii-or-gh2
http://www.eoshd.com/content/7631/panasonic-gh2-vs-5d-mark-iii
.
http://www.eoshd.com/content/6681/shootout-reveals-panasonic-gh2-resolution-at-canon-c300-level
http://www.eoshd.com/content/6876/dispelling-the-myths-is-the-canon-c300-worth-15999
http://www.eoshd.com/content/7710/the-sony-nex-fs700-4k-for-8k
Looks like NEX is pretty good at video too.
so… a 3000$ FF camera beat a 1000$ APSC camera ? What a shock…
Sounds like great new for entry-level Nikon buyers.
Maybe the worlds best optical lineup of lenses and the best APC-S sensor currently on the market made by Sony.
Nikon is a big winner if this is true for the D3200 and not the rumored D300
What a shame Sony.You shares your 24MP with Nikon meanwhile the Nikon stick it on their low-end body…
Obviously Sony and Nikon are working very well together developing sensors. My general feeling since a year or two is that Canon do not really follow. Having said that I must say Canon 5DMkII files looks great! We are not discussing good or bad here – rather degrees of excellence!
Meaning anyone who sits with a Canon lens system can still smile.
I don’t think Nikon will put that sensor in a camera that costs so little.
If they did, the quality would be insane, because of no SLT and Nikon usualy gets much more out of the same sensor than Sony.
The 5Diii still has the shadow banding of the 5Dii, although maybe not to the same degree. At low ISO, the Sony sensors are still kicking Canon’s behind in terms of DR. The D800 has nearly a 2 stop DR advantage at base ISO, which you’ll see when DxO mark scores for the 5Diii arrive.
Not surprising. It’s a cross promotion / cross production.
Sony allows Nikon to look great with first dibs on FF sensors/etc. Nikon sells a hella lot. Nikon shells out licensing fee and manufacturing fee to Sony, who rolls that into better sensor development and uses it to manufacture their own cameras.
Sony is slowly ratcheting up that ladder. Yeah, Nikon applies some secret sauce to what comes out of the sensor, but let’s face it. If your sensor isn’t putting out some amazing stuff, garbage is what should come out, and garbage isn’t what’s coming out from the Nikon D800.
When the A99 comes out, it will be a fraction of the price of Nikon’s flagship cameras and will sell well for those who have been waiting for a full frame replacement to their A850/A900 and even to some of us A77 owners. 🙂
It is a low risk proposition for Sony to give Nikon first dibs on FF. In the APS-C, it makes sense to retain for itself, because it uses the APS-C sensor in multiple lines of products. Look at the 24MP APS-C sensor: A77, A65, NEX-7. And the NEX(s) are selling like hot cakes. So it makes sense.
Sony is leveraging Nikon’s brand to sell and promote their sensors. They are hedging their bets and learning as they go.
That isn’t stupidity. That’s a strategy.
Well… if the FF/APS-C exclusitivity assumption is true, what about the rumoured 24 mpx FF sensor in Sonys FF-camera expected this September? That sensor has not been used by Nikon.
So I do not think it is as simple as that, if there are such agreements between Sony and Nikon, it is probably a sensor-by-sensor thing.
In this case Nikon made a huge launch investment for the D800 and Sony put most resources on a77/a65/NEX-7.
The summer is short here in Sweden. Soon it is September…
I love taking photos of just about anything. I love cameras. I use Sony mostly because I get most of the stuff free because of Sony points but wouldn’t use it if it sucked. It doesn’t. Neither does Nikon, Canon,etc. There are always pros and cons with every camera. D800 looks way cool but slow fps does not make it great for sports but still very usable. The images look great. Don’t know what the mark III looks like but for their sake hope it is better than the mark II. I found the focus to be lacking in that camera. I am sure the III will be good, but after visiting some of these blogs I could not believe the vicious language used to attempt to assert the opinion that our camera is bigger (sorry Freudian slip) that our camera is better than your camera. I thought photographers were an artistic bunch and interests in capturing the beauty of light and how it interacts with the world around us. But, these people could not possibly be capturing such beauty because I find that most of these people have too much hate in their hearts to notice anything of beauty. So I have just became comfortable with the thought that when I am with my Canon and Nikon buddies and I am in touch with my zen moment and capture a better photo than my counterparts that I must be a better photographer to be able to take a better photo with such a piece of crap camera. That said bring on the A99. Sorry for my Thursday tirade but I thought politics and religion were volatile subjects.
I hope that the admin of this blog conducts a similar video quality comparison between the latest Canon compact with APS sensor (G1X) and the latest full frame offering from Sony. It should be done ASAP and we can put this argument to rest – which camera is better at capturing video
perhaps you should just stick around your canon forum instead of troll here.
perhaps you should just ignore my posts if you can not stand seeing a perspective on things that’s different from the Sony party line. I’ve been a photographer and the A-mount user for too long and I will decide myself which forums to visit. I hope I made myself clear
@Jim
Sorry no comparison but….
http://www.eoshd.com/content/6841/canon-g1x-video-samples-digic-5-im-not-impressed
you missed the sarcasm …the point was that there NO Sony FF with video to compare to anything. I personally do not see a point in G1X – too big and the lens is not that great. Get a Panasonic LX5 or whatever its called (a Leica look alike but costs less than half)
A new Sony 96MP FF sensor with support for difference read-out modes
and RAW files. E.g 96MP, 48MP, 24MP and 12MP all RAW files.
That would be something. And multi exposure in singel shoot for high
dynamic range, like the D800 that can do two exposures in singel shoot.
Would help in some situations, for extreme HDR you would shoot 3 or more
images anyway.
Then… use the same 96MP FF sensor in a new NEX9 😉
Price 995$ :))
WHY SONY! We should be the 3rd full frame camera in this New FF Shoot out. I hate waiting and I don’t know If my camera is going to make it through this Wedding season. and I really don’t want another a900. Ah it makes me mad just thinking about it!
I bought the 5D III and sent it back, I couldn’t see any real difference from my NEX-7 and 5D classic.
i bought a leica s2 medium format, and sent it back. zero difference between medium format and 5DIII full frame.
BS!
You do not send back a 30 grands Leica the same way you can send back a 3k camera…
You have not even seen an S2 Leica to begin with, not mentioning having touched one.
I guess he/she did not buy a lens with the S2. LOL. The lenses are definitely in a league of their own, even among medium format lenses.
yes captain obvious, u get the point
The EOS 5D Mark III is a great cam. It’s well done from an engineering point of view. Canon would by any mean be able to build a megapixel monster, or some other consumer-oriented oddity – they preferred to make a solid, high performing, high ISO able full-frame camera. They focused on image quality, not in features that only a 10% among us will ever need. Do you need 36MP at the cost of poor high ISO? Do you need to make prints sized liked megaposters? If not, I would take the 5D3 (and don’t forget the advantages of the EOS system – lot’s of outstanding lenses).
The 5D is loved by indie movie makers. It outperforms RED’s Scarlet-X concerning image details and noise (and is costs much less than the Scarlet).
They focused so much on image quality and high ISO performance that the mkIII doesn’t perform better than the D800 in this area, despite the latter having 64% more pixels. They focused so much on image quality that the maximum dynamic range is about two full stops behind that same D800, which costs less too. Canon focused so much on image quality that moire is still evident in repetitive patterns (atleast Nikon gives choice here). In fact, Canon focused so much on image quality that even at base ISO, a relatively modest push reveals the same banding that has plagued every single Canon since the original 5D, many many years ago.
thanks Spoon, couldn’t have said it better myself.
5d Mark III matches RED’s Scarlet-X @2k concerning image detail. http://www.canonwatch.com/image-detail-comparison-eos-5d-mark-iii-matches-red-scarlet-x-at-2k/
Does someone even think to compare the mighty D800 to gear like the Scarlet? Dont’t think someone does. Indie movie makers are excited by the possibilities offered by the 5D Mark III.
@spoon: would really like to know where you got the information that the maximum dynamic range of the 5D Mark III is “two full stops behind the D800”. That’s new to me.
Plenty measurements available, see Dpreview forums for example. It’s a direct result from Canon’s dating AD designs and was perfectly predicted too based on their best APS-C designs. The banding mentioned is part if the read noise directly limiting the DR. Plenty examples of that in the Canon forums too, soon confirmed by DXOMark, hold me to that. 😉
As for video, EOSHD compared the mkIII with a GH2. The latter still beats it for detail.
Plenty measurements available, see Dpreview forums for example. It’s a direct result from Canon’s dating AD designs and was perfectly predicted too based on their best APS-C designs. The banding as mentioned, is part of the read noise, in turn directly limiting the DR. Plenty examples of that in the Canon forums too, soon confirmed by DXOMark, hold me to that. 😉
As for video, EOSHD compared the mkIII with a GH2. The latter still beats it for detail.
That nikon produces DSLRs does not excuse Sony for dropping DSLRs. Nikon are better than Sony, but a different lens mount requiring a user to reinvest in his entire lens system, flashes and so on.
Producing a sensor is not making a camera.
Change the record, for Christ’s sake.
Why don’t you change your record. Almost every post walt makes I see you right there saying the same shit over and over. Maybe he posts only to torment you, leave him alone and maybe he won’t. Ever think of that numbnuts?
It’s an open forum and I’ve as much right to call him on his fud as he has to spread it. And if you think I’m the only one challenging it, have another look. And yes he has admitted – on other forums – to just winding folks up, but not just me.
My avatar is quite easy to spot – if you see it, just ignore the text that follows. Ever think of that, numbnuts?
Walt is all over the forums posting the same shit.
About time Walt got a buddy. His own relentless echoing of a broken record was starting to sound lonely. 😉
That would be cool. To be able to use my zeiss and G lenses on a Nikon body. I would take the hit on the flashes. Nikon could surely come up with an adapter.
Jesus Walt, will you just switch fucking systems? Then when EVF comes to canikon you can fucking whine about it to your canikon buddies.
Sony isn’t for you, get a brand that fits YOUR requirements.
All the Nikon camera I have used (D70, D40x, D80, D200, D300,..) all use Sony sensors.
Only in the case of D3/s, Nikon go to the trouble of saying that they were 100% *designed* by Nikon. The rest are all Sony chips.
Isn’t it kinda funny that Nikon are taking the sensor from the TOP Sony cameras and putting it in their cheapest, entry level bodies?
That’s a hell of a deal really. For a cheap camera, that will have amazing image quality, especially without the SLT mirror.
FFS David, the SLT has ZERO AFFECT ON IQ. How many times must this be fucking said here?
sadly this will never be understood by amateurs.
Does not seems to me that Nikon as a “Sony customer” is limited with any Sony exclusivity – Sony makes sensors for a price, no reason not to sell the product. The situation with D800 is different, because the sensor is probably more Nikon design than “ordinary” aps-c chips from Sony and they want to protect the know how, hence the restriction for Sony. But still an outsider speculation.
Not sure where this speculation about the D800 sensor comes from. But an APS-C cropped/sized area from that sensor performs within margin of (measuring) error/ sample variance (third of a stop) of the D7000/A580 sensor in terms of noise performance and dynamic range throughout the entire overlapping ISO range. The same Sony Exmor handwriting all over it, just scaled up to FF, as expected.
Those waiting for a full-frame NEX will have to wait a long time as no current E lenses are good enough for the NEX-7 let alone something with an even larger sensor.
Look at this blog and you will see the lenses on the NEX series are just fine.
http://soundimageplus.blogspot.com/2012/03/my-rather-miserable-sony-18-55mm-lens.html
An anti photozone blog? Fun! 😉
I am always suspicious of images that takes two individuals to produce though.
Uh.. D3200?
You mean that cheapest Nikon lineup will be fed by 24 mpix APS-C?
Thats crazy! And actually tempting. 😀
While I’m sure a new Nikon 3000 series is in the work, and a Nikon with the 24MP APS sensor is in the work, I highly doubt they are one and the same camera.
Canon http://www.flickr.com/photos/cameralabs/sets/72157629647319643/
mmm tasty sony can only dream.. 12800 iso are better than sony’s d700 sensor at 6400… sony can kick only his imagine business solutions… sony sony go and make a valid playstation 4
And how old is the D700? Lets see how your fantastic 5DIII compares to the $500 cheaper D800, numbskull.
@Patrick — what is this??? a photographer?? –> LOL <– see a real photographer http://www.marcadamus.com/gallery.php
real photographers are all photographers. there are less reportage photographers working for world leading agencies than there are nature photographers. that man is a professional photographer, but not the real mccoy. ansel adams did better with black and white and robert polidori does better in urban areas. marc adams sounds like your local nature photog
those samples from camera labs show that the new 5d is using some pretty agressive noise reduction. I think I can achieve the same with my 5d2 and some agressive noise reduction in photoshop to match the 3200 and 6400 (almost) and save $$$$ along the way.
by the sound of your comments, you sound like a frustrated investor in canon. not only do you seem rather ignorant of the outer confinements of the world (like a red neck from middle america), but you have also pledged loyalty to a brand that has delivered a camera that is marginally better than its predecessor (for $1k more than its predecessor) the fact that its in stock in many stores says it all, canon gave lemons to its fans and they will suck them, however bitter they may be. and your writting has as much excitement as a virgin in bed before being engaged by a lady of the night.
what the question of the decade is: why would you even show your face here when you are polishing canon’s big fat c**k? i read here plenty of people who have interest not only in the techy gossip that the world of photography gives, but also genuinely interested in a camera brand that (after purchasing the tech) was able to push forwards in a market dominated by 2. In the last 5 years it went from zero to hero and many people found a real alternative. Now that one of those big two saw that sony has plenty of brains and cash for r&d, decided to team up with it, and you see canon loosing it little by little…you come here all frustrated and tell yourself that you can vent off here. in reality, my friend (or not), you are letting off steam in vain because i think you already got mugged, or you are about to. in either case, i hope canon was not that lady of the night, because it may have turned into a transvesty!
Patrick you are the man.
Since a100 sony is trying to be the first one in imagine market… with some billion dollar spent and the huge capacity they must be the 1 in the world over nasa now… and then?? they are quinte 5°… panasonic and samsung are going to go over sony and sony… is a faggot
brilliant, loeri. Sony is a faggot. You’ve outdone yourself.
@ Admin:
> UPDATE: Some here still do not believe Nikon uses Sony sensors. Just loook at that D7000 chip: http://www.chipworks.com/media/wpmu/uploads/blogs.dir/4/files/2011/01/IMX071_diemrk.jpg. Can you read it? 😉
I think, given that Nikon has CERTAINLY used Sony sensors in the past, and has CERTAINLY used non-Sony sensors, it’s always a question where the sensor in the latest/greatest model is sourced, and how much Sony DNA is in the design.
True, but low ISO read noise (order of a magnitude difference between Sony and any other maker) and rather flat read noise curve is usually the give away. As is the physical or visual layout. 😉
Nikon’s “flagship” camera is the D4 not the D800. Nobody has seriously suggested that the D4 sensor is a Sony sensor, but it is clear that the sensor in the D800 is pretty much an up-scaled version of the very successful Sony APS-C sensor used in the D7000, D5100, K5, A580, NEX5, etc.
Nikon is obviously Sony’s biggest customer for APS-C and full frame sensors – but if Sony’s sensor division is giving Nikon 6-12 months exclusivity on full-frame sensors they are imposing a serious handicap on their own camera division. If Sony wants to make real inroads into the full frame DSLR market almost totally dominated by Canon and Nikon they need to be releasing cameras with the best sensors before Nikon and Canon – not a year later.
Canon 5d III WILL SIMPLY…. KICK YOUR SONY IN THE ASS 😉 I OWN A 5D III, ITS TIME TO TROW MY SLUGGY A900 … ITS ANOTHER WORLD! SONY, YOU SIMPLY CANT DO THAT
have fun. enjoy your mark III. I’ll stick with my zeiss.
If this rumor is true we may finely be able to put to rest the theory that the old-school DSLR design represented by the Nikon D3200 is superior to the new Sony SLT cameras like the a77.
The striped down Nikon can’t have the “bells and whistles” the Sony a77 has because it’s almost half the price and Nikon will have much higher manufacturing costs because of its mirror, right?
But if it’s the same sensor in both cameras the picture quality should be about the same don’t you think?
In the market place this low-end, beginners-grade Nikon will have the advantage of fantastic array of lenses and accessories we A-mount shooter have been dreaming of for years and of course price!
This will force price drops throughout the industry
I can’t wait to see what happens 🙂
Replace “we” with.”you”. 😉
You can already do the comparison now between 16mp Sony SLT, Nikon dSLR and NEX mirrorless.
In fact you can remove the mirror from a SLT, as others have already done so, to see that there is fuck all difference in IQ and when I mean IQ I do not mean lame arsed pixel peeping high ISO tossbags found here.
Soooooo, Sony sells its 24 MP sensors to Nikon. Is this the reason why the NEX-7 is so hard to obtain in Europe? Is a big part of the produced sensors going to Nikon right now???? Thank you Sony, great!!!! Really…….. I love waiting 😛
I wonder why people compare d3200 and a78 in the same basket… Both are completely different class of cameras altogether. I know for landscape photographers can see not mj difference but the extra manual controls and fps on the a77 means a world of difference to wedding/event/sports photogs.
Kind of early for April Fools =D
.
It isnt good for Sony when Nikon takes their flagship APS-C sensor and puts it in an entry level camera. One can argue all day that the A65/77 and NEX-7 are better cameras but putting their sensor in a entry level body, effectively allows Nikon to devalue Sony’s highend preposition. I’m sure the Sony sensor sales guy is really happy, but I’m equally sure the Sony camera sales guy is pretty pissed.
Sony did essentially the same with the 16MP sensor found in the D7000, now found in a cheap entry level C3 and A35.
Nikon will again school Sony on how to use their own silicon to it’s best advantage, and have a much better Jpeg engine to boot too in a much less expensive camera.
Sony camera division will never learn.
They should let someone who runs the semi-conductor division run the camera division because the semi-conductor division has their shit all together there- that division ROCKS.
Yeah because there was such a huge difference between the A580 and the MUCH more expensive D7000…
Are you talking about color separation (accuracy) and moire (lack of)? Because that’s where Nikon can learn a lesson or two aswell (while noise and DR at a given ISO are now mostly within measuring error for the sensors as used by both). 😉
hey, its pure marketing! Nikon would say that their entry level has more mpx than almost every ff pro camera, the folks would go and buy lots of this. And most of them would never buy any lens to replace their kits! Its sad that people think that huge number of mpixels would guirantee them the top quality. That might be and would be a key factor among people choosing cheap dslr. People who dont care a lot about lenses, who just want to buy a dslr would not see the difference between any cameras, so the number of mpixels is cruicial for dslr newcomers. Good marketing move. Very good indeed. That will be one of the most buying cameras.
D800 36MP FF get 28xx high iso score. with nikon tweak on 24MP APSC, expect to see fanatstic high iso performance as well. entry level dslr with 24MP, look like to blow canon and sony away 😀
while i enjoying shooting with my A300… ppl are arguing which camera model is better, and they dont even own them. sad sad sad peoples.
Let me repeat this post until I either get shown to be mistaken or I see this issue discussed at a higher level (ie, blog posts instead of comments):
It is very clear that the NEX-7 sensor has an off-axis problem. All lenses tested on different resolution sensors (eg, on the Nikon D200 and D7000) produce a higher resolution for all apertures and position in the image. The NEX-7 is the exception in that it does so only in center and does the worst wide-open in the corners where the light rays come in the most off-axis.
I’m having a hard time believing the same sensor in the a77 is going into the Nikon D3200. If you’d said the D7200 (or D7100, whatever they end up calling it) and maybe the D5200, I’d believe it. But the D3200? That would hurt sales of the D5200.
I sold a D7000 and switched over to Sony to buy an a77 last October. I can’t say enough good things about my a77. What a joy to shoot with.
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To my dear comrades who like to argue so passionately about the gear that this company makes. Here is a view from a couple of smart dudes at Goldman Sachs who have been following the industry their entire careers and get paid $$$ to analyze the trends. They predict that either Sony sells off all of its hardware stuff (cameras included) or it will face a slow decline simiar to Kodak and Xerox. Here is a summary from their latest note to institutional investors:
March 19, 2012
<>
Sony has lost its edge and failed to adapt rapidly enough
In our view, Sony is struggling to adapt to the generational change in consumer electronics,
partly hamstrung by its silo organizational structure. The digital age is giving way rapidly
to the cloud age, changing the way people access movie and music content, play computer
games, or share information — from multiple traditional hardware devices such as TVs,
CD/MP3 players, cameras, video cameras, games consoles, with their separate software
and systems, to an integrated platform for all these functions made available on products
such as smartphones or tablets. As such, we think earnings from traditional hardware
devices are likely to face structural decline as competition increases and lower sales
necessitate cutting fixed costs. This in turn can become self-reinforcing.
However, we think the market has not fully discounted the major structural problems Sony
faces (particularly the negative value in its hardware segment) and is over confident in
Sony’s proposed rescue plan to turn around its fortunes. Based on its current share price,
we estimate that the stock market is valuing Sony’s hardware business (excluding
semiconductors) at around ¥400 bn.
Traditional hardware business presents a dilemma
In our view, Sony’s hardware business (excluding semiconductors) presents a dilemma for
the company. On the one hand, maintaining its current course for these businesses will
erode Sony’s enterprise value as these continue to make heavy losses. On the other hand,
Sony faces having to devise measures for restructuring and scaling down its business
periodically so that earnings do not worsen as the hardware industry shrinks. However,
strategies of retrenchment rarely work in volume sensitive industries and in the words of
Carlos Ghosn “it is hard to cost cut your way to prosperity”. We estimate the segment
actually represents a negative value of ¥427 bn.
Unfunded pension liabilities could become a major drag on earnings in the future
Sony’s unfunded pension liabilities were around ¥270 bn at the end of FY3/11. Unless
pension asset management yields greatly exceed company assumptions (2.9%), we
calculate pension liabilities will become a substantial debt that will need to be
supplemented by cash. This is likely to become a greater drag if business scale shrinks.
Base case envisages late recognition that legacy hardware cannot be salvaged
We downgrade Sony to Sell (Conviction list) from Neutral based on this bearish
assessment. We revise our 12-month target price to ¥1,000 from ¥1,300. We now use a
SOTP method to derive our target price — to better capture the value of each business
segment — in favor of our previous hardware EV/DACF.
Under our base case scenario, we see Sony having to recognize that its rescue plan is not
working and then embarking on a major overhaul of its hardware business. We model
FY3/15-FY3/16, but this could occur sooner or later, although the outcome is largely the
same. Specifically, we expect Sony will have to pare down the LCD TV business to 6 mn
units from 22 mn to stem its TV losses, and with that total Consumer Products and Services
sales will fall to ¥1.5 tn from ¥3 tn. In this fashion we think Sony can minimize LCD TV
losses, but at the same time we estimate restructuring would cost ¥590 bn over two years.
Moreover, we see this as damage limitation rather than a plan to turn the division around.
But we do see a way to revitalize the company
As part of our Japan 2020 series, we analyze the structural issues facing Sony, review its
past mis-steps, the measures being taken to address these issues, and present a potential
scenario for the company to revive itself — similar to Apple’s corporate reinvention.
Our radical scenario analysis envisages Sony streamlining and differentiating itself to
prepare for the cloud age— divesting its legacy hardware, its devices, and financial
businesses; acquiring additional music content; and developing a distinct and appealing
smartphone-based platform. Under this scenario, we estimate Sony could be valued at
¥4,200 per share by 2020. Nevertheless, this has to be considered the optimistic scenario
as such a business model is fraught with risk and execution problems. However, the
company has reached a critical point in its history that such a radical pathway could be the
only option left.
The D800’s noise is far worse than the 5DIII’s:
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_5D_Mark_III/Canon_5D3_vs_Nikon_D800_noise.shtml