And here we are. The NEX-7 shares the same A77 sensor. But are the results the same? Is the semi transparent mirror taking away some bits of image quality? DxOmark (Click here) tested the NEX-7 image quality and the answer is that the NEX-7 is by a tiny bit better than the A77. De facto it is the Sony camera with the best results to date (even better than the A900 full frame camera).
As you can see form the screenshot on top the NEX-7 has a slightly higher dynamic range an color depth than the A77 (but the difference is negligible). But High ISO results are visible better thna the A77. Only the A900 can beat the High ISO results of the NEX-7. Now imagine what a NEX-9 full frame camera could do 🙂
P.S.: Check for NEX-7 preorders at: [shopcountry 8454].
71 Responses
I just got in my LA-EA2 adapter in, and I can only connect it to my lenses. I can’t wait for my NEX-7 to arrive! The finish on the adapter is exactly the same as the finish on my Minolta 85 1.4 RS lens. Very nice! It has a slight texture to it, unlike the Zeiss lenses which are smooth.
… do you play dress up with your cameras or something?
Is it not reasonable to assume that people on the Sony Alpha Rumors site would be interested in the finish quality of new Sony products? Your comment is absurd.
… wasn’t trying to be absurd, just wondering if you liked decorating your camera is all. I’ve seen some people paint the bodies of their camera before, just wondering if you did too …
One day you complain about NEX lenses that is too big, the next you want a fullframe NEX. imagine the size of the lenses then?
a full two inches thick. M-Mount!!
I guess you already have some full frame lenses. Just mount them on NEX and see it.
… so why is everyone waiting for the more expensive A77 if the NEX 7 is so great???
Better lenses for A77.
I don’t. 😉 I will skip the A77 and wait for the A99, but I pre-ordered a NEX-7 more than two months ago.
Because they are completely different cameras for completely different uses and completely different users…
IBIS, control scheme, ergonomics, and weather proofness come to mind.
“Is the semi transparent mirror taking away some bits of image quality?”
Why do you keep repeating this every time? It has been known for an year now (A55 vs A580) that mirror results in 1/2 stop more noise at eqv ISO.
1/2 stop loss of light, to be precise
No, it’s 1/3 of light which equals 1/2 stop of more noise.
… that makes absolutely no sense …
The NEX-7 is the most sexy camera in 2011 – but it’s only a fata mogana. You can’t buy a NEX-7.
Since many weeks Sony tells us every day: “We will soon release a press release regarding shipment of the NEX-7”. I hate this information policy. Maybe it’s more attractive for Sony to have a big insurance case, then shipping the already produced NEX-7?
Isn’t it fata morgana?:)
I wonder if Sony can fix this in the year or so before I replace my a850’s with the new FF alpha, or is the EVF alpha’s doomed to be not as good as other designs.
My clients are pixel-peepers and with one of them if he discovers that my Sony equipment (something I have had to defend before) is second rate I will hear about it.
With my a850 I could proudly talk about MP and image quality and that Nikon uses the same sensor in its top camera. But if Sony purposely decides to happily market flawed professional cameras just to use the EVF I may buy the NEX and no longer use the Sony’s alpha product and its flawed architecture and move to some other vendor. I can envision a day when this one client will request a head-on comparison like he did when I got his work from a guy with a Canon D1s
We all know that it’s unlikely most viewers could see a difference, but sometimes perception is reality.
The NEX product looks better all the time and Sony’s a77 is failing in the comparison just a little and this is proving to be a supprise to me at least.
It sounds to me as though that client is more trouble than he is worth.
Does what he pays you cover the cost of buying cameras to keep up with his demands?
if you have the camera on a tripod, you may lose that 1/3 of stop.
but if you have the camera in your hand won two steps with steadyshot.
how u compare a usd$1900 sony a850 to $7500 cameras??? pixel peeper sounds like he wants a hasselblad.
i use a850 and it is definitely best bang for buck. only issue i have is noise at higher iso, but shooting in daylight or strobes, the issue disappears. color depth is amazing with zeiss 85mm and 135mm
I’m not sure how it can be a surprise, given the fact they use the same sensors and one of them uses a pellicle mirror to feed the PDAF sensors. *shrugs*.
The guy’s an architect, that’s all I’m allowed to say
I photograph 3d layouts models of structures showing the effect of sunlight and shadows on the structure and on the adjoining structures.
It’s easy reproducible tripod work and yes I use an a850 and the Zeiss 135/f1.8
I own both an A850 and an NEX-5N with the optional EVF. I doubt you’ll have any complaints with the EVF in Sony’s next FF camera. I was a doubter until I actually got to use one. Focus peaking makes it as good for critical focusing as the A850’s optical viewfinder, and the ability to preview your exposure makes it better, imo.
Of more concern is the pellicle mirror, but we’ll have to see if Sony refines it further for their FF body. Hopefully they will.
But the NEX also uses an EVF. I don’t get it!
These tests were based on version 1.03. It should be interesting to see how the “Sport” portion turns out on version 1.04. Other than the “Sport” portion the A77 and NEX-7 compare amazingly well to the full frame A900.
Maybe they will give the full frame the SLT that flips to keep your pp’s happy.
Sorry to say that Sony has nothing to offer in camera which is priced in the $5000 range. Maybe you can look elsewhere…? =/
The ISO performance is so close to the NEX-5N, Outstanding!
If Sony can do this in a 24MP package, imagine in a 16MP sensor? And then imagine in a full-frame.
I can’t wait till my pre-ordered NEX-7 arrives!
Why are people still perpetuating this myth that 16MP is somehow better performance than 24MP? Science says not necessarily so. Dx0 now says definitively not (look at NEX 5 vs 7 results).
Why? Please enlighten me!
That’s the wrong question to ask. The real question is if the sensor Sony is using in the NEX-7 is qualitatively better than the one in the NEX-5N, resolution notwithstanding.
DXOmark’s numbers don’t demonstrate the difference you can see with your own eyes in real world comparisons. Cases in point are those posted on Luminous Landscape and on Steve Huff’s blog.
The differences are admittedly small and probably not relevant for most users.
I think the real choice is over price, resolution, ergonomics and whether you’re going to use the camera with non-Sony lenses. Between the two, I suspect that most people will agree the NEX-7 represents the better bang for the buck.
I guess the key here is “most users.” Professionals and enthusiasts should definitively pay attention to pixels—that’s the building-block of the image.
In the case of the NEX-7, the imager is more evolved over the 5N sensor. It shows the march of progress.
The question now is: do we really need 24MP?
For Sony, it helps them claim resolution supremacy in the APS-C segment and brings this format closer to competing with the full framers. But the full-frame is not standing still, and the next generation will once again be towering above the APS-C format.
As a working professional I would be totally fine having the 5N sensor inside an NEX-7 body.
Doug, you seem to have changed your tune…
“The 5N is a superior camera in terms of image quality. It has lower noise and a higher dynamic range than the NEX-7.”
Or are you still sticking to those claims?
The only real difference displayed by both S. Huff and M. Reichmann at LL is that they have different sensitivities at equal indicated ISO’s (with the 7 being slightly more sensitive). As a result, in both tests the 5N received more light to the sensor, hence a hair less noise.
I guess it is because most those people judge image quality by viewing images on their LCD monitors which can not display 6000×4000 image in full resolution. I can understand they complain about noise.
Images taken by SONY APS-C 24Mpx sensor looks well at higher ISOs only if a viewer can see information from all pixels. But ordinary image viewers use basic resizing algorithms. This results in loss of information from image and higher amplitude of noise at pixel level pops up.
I’m looking for better down resizing algorithm. Any suggestions?
Irfanview, free program that allows Lanczos resizing/resampling.
The overall score could be better if iso 50 was available on the nex7 (more DR and more color depth, look at the difference between a77 and a65).
Look at those figures! It makes you wonder if the reason they have a 36mp sensor up their sleeves is because that’s just how good the sensor tech has become! Are we gonna see 25bit 14Evs and ISO2800 in a 24meg FF SLT??!!
I see that Sony Alpha 580 also has a remarkable score…
Right. The A580 is one of Sony’s best cameras and highly underrated.
Exactly. I have an A580 and it’s really excellent in image quality. Even construction is very good. 3 months ago I was on the street and it dropped from my hands with the heavy zeiss 16-80 attached, the pop flash open and the tilt screen in a horizontal position and nothing, strictly nothing happened, not even a scratch. Internally it works perfectly. It was like a miracle. Great camera and for that I don t feel the need to buy the A77, but probably I ll buy the Nex 7. Besides I’ll keep my 580 for being the last alpha with OVF.
801 ISO vs 1016 is such a small difference that the lens speed is probably more important than the camera body here!
That’s true, it’s highly underrated. I wonder why. I have one, and it’s a perfect camera if you have the right lens (Zeiss and G). It doesn’t receive as much publication as the other cameras.
Did anybody notice the “bump” in the SNR graph at ISO 6400? It seems that the NEX-7 does some automatic binning/smoothing at higher ISO levels to improve noise performance even more.
I did notice that too, and I agree with you that is probably what is happening. I am not surprised though, I’ve noticed other makes doing similar things with various bodies.
Compare the Sevens
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/736%7C0/(brand)/Sony/(appareil2)/680%7C0/(brand2)/Nikon/(appareil3)/619%7C0/(brand3)/Canon
In terms of still image quality, is the NEX-7 really worth the extra $600 over the NEX-5n? Sure, the 7 includes additional features, but not everyone needs those.
Unless you want to make really huge prints: No, of course not; apart from the higher resolution the image quality is almost exactly the same. But the NEX-7 has more direct manual controls so that you don’t have to poke around in the menus all the time, that’s what makes the difference for me.
measurements shows 7 has better DR at low ISO
The answer is no.
1.The NEX-7 is not $600 more than the 5n if you include EVF. The price difference is VERY small.
2.Being able to use a flash while the EVF is in use should not be an “additional feature”.
3. Better ergonomics leads to better image quality. Even if the NEX-5n had a 2 stop advantage (in terms of S/N ratio) over the NEX-7, it will be nullified if the NEX-7 proves to be better at handling.
I could never really stand the NEX-5N control layout, but I can accept the NEX-7. 7 also looks to have a better grip for stability.
But frankly I’d say yours is a bit of a loaded question – clearly, if you don’t need the 7’s features, go for the 5N!
But man, sometimes it doesn’t matter what ISO you go to, the available light just isn’t attractive, and you’d want to use a powerful flash. That’s when you need the Alpha hotshoe.
I think it is a wait and see they are not done tweaking either one of these cameras, After another FW we will see the real results, I will say this I have the 850,580,5n I think it covers just about any situation, I did have to send back the 77 I had do to a power on problem, I am going to wait until next year to see what happens.. Need to just keep shooting
Too bad auto ISO is limited to 1600 on the NEX 7 then, the limit should be user definable !
I will buy the 5N though, as I plan to use it with the Voigtlander 15mm.
After release of A77 I get even more exited how excellent my A900 really is. Exept AF and reach there is no advantages of A77. NEX7 with slow AF is even less appealing. OK additional 1 stop of DR, but its only 8% better.
Hey ledgars, the A850/A900’s rock, particularly with the latest version of camera RAW, they are NOT bad at highish ISO like all the people without them sugest! I shoot mostly between 200-1600 and regularly compare with my colleauges D3X, up to ISO 1600 there is nothing in it, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.i process 3-400 raw files a week shot with A850/D3X alongside each other! You can see my 5dII comparison here: http://www.toekandi.com/A900.html Cheers!
The NEX7 should have ISO 50 as A77.
And some more cheap good small primes.
“cheap good small…”!? How’s that for impossible? You’d pay 1000+ dollar for a body and then go shop for cheap lenses? Apart from iso 50, none of what you said makes any sense to me…
On my Pentax i’m using the 35mm f2.4, it’s a small cheap good lense. Samsung NX lenses are also small, good and cheap, like the 30mm f2. So, yes it’s possible, but why sony make good small body and such BIG lenses ?
JonasM,
Apart from its larger dimensions, the a580 is a better cam than the NEX-5N, yet the a580 costs less.
Does that make sense? Not to me.
And believe me – Good lenses can be made and sell for reasonable prices. Manufacturers simply have no reason to lower prices, thanks to blokes like you.
NEX 7 & A77 have essentially same lowest ISO, if you remove pellicle mirror.
Both produce identical pictures (DR, noise), but A77 sensor takes a little longer time to fill up to maximum capacity.
It’s probably impossible to put ISO 50 on an NEX-7 without it clipping highlights. The only reason the A77 has an ISO 50 (and it’s more like ISO 76 when measured) is that the SLT mirror acts as a mild ND filter.
The reason for this is quite simple – the photosites can only accept so many excited electrons before the charge well saturates and the image burns out. If you arbitrarily decide to define an ISO 50 on a sensor where ISO 100 is the “base” level, then highlights will burn out with one EV less. You don’t gain any extra dynamic range, you just lose the highlight detail. It’s exactly equivalent to exposing ISO 100 slide file at ISO 50 then expecting to recover highlights by putting it through a scanner and trying to half the gain.
So the idea the NEX-7 sensor has an potential ISO 50 setting capability is almost certainly wrong.
I’m kind of surprised. I thought that mirror in rhe a77 would make more of a difference and make the nex-7 significantly better. I guess a negligible better is ok, but I expected a bit more.
Jay
Me too. I think the A77 stacks up very well against the NEX-7 considering the mirror.
What a wonderful. score !!
Now for my christmas I hope a new lens compensation firmware for nex 5 golf a good new Sony lens roadmap
And considering that the new Firmware 1.04 on A77 seems to upgrade IQ in high isos, I think Dxomark must revise the A77 score. Maybe the A77 is closer to A900 and Nex 7 than is now or the Nex 7 with new firmware rev. can be better than the A900?
Dream on my friend, the A850/A900 whoops it’s ass at any ISO, the A77 doesn’t perform any better (actually worse) than the A55 in high ISO and you can see the A55 compared to the A900 and D3X here: http://www.toekandi.com/A900.html
Firmware will only affect JPEG engine as the RAW results (DXOMark) will be a direct result of the sensor/signal processing hardware. The A77 is a nice cam and for the money and provided your shooting in daylight it’s a well thought out piece of kit but against today’s APS-C high ISO performers it will always be at a big disadvantage compared to mirrorless and SLR’s because of that bloody half a stop loss. Sony need to hurry the hell up dropping a 24MP full frame sensor based on their latest sensor tech and gapless micro lenses e.t.c into the A77 body, then and only then will they have an SLT that will perform on the mark for the professional and “gear head” amateurs.
Don’t think so, better dynamic range and color depth in the A77 vs A900, the A900 is now clearly outdated as the A77 sensor tech could be exported to future SLT FF or worse, to Nikon future FF. Lets wait who gives the new big step in the FF market.
And A77 is not in a big disadvantage compared to mirrorless and best APS-C high iso. And clearly is actually the best allround performer for serious amateurs or “gear head” if you prefer.
‘The A77 is a nice cam and for the money and provided your shooting in daylight it’s a well thought out piece of kit’
You’re underplaying the A77 somewhat…
At ISO 1600 and below, the A77 *wipes the floor with Canikon*:
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/sony-alpha-a77-1040798/review?artc_pg=5
The A77 beats or equals pretty much everything in normal shooting conditions that you would use for 99% of your photos. Not useful for those shooting black cats in a coalmine, but for the Canikon crowd, its the only thing they can fault, so they all seem to claim to spend all their time in dark concerts as soon as you mention the A77 🙂
Good point. I wonder if they ever do review scores? that would suck if they had to re-test every time a new firmware came out!
Sorry Guys, but it’s just not the case: http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/734%7C0/(brand)/Sony/(appareil2)/485%7C0/(brand2)/Nikon/(appareil3)/371%7C0/(brand3)/Sony
I was lucky enough to shot a portrait session last weekend with an A77 (borrowed from a colleague) side by side with my A850 and A55 and after processing RAW files later that evening it was easy to see that any advantages on paper in dynamic range and color depth (which according to DXO aren’t actually there as if you look closely at the charts the A77 is below the A900 in nearly all measurements) that the A77 had were obliterated by the mass of noise at anything over ISO 400 which removed most of the tonality and fine detail. To be honest it was this type of result that stopped me upgrading my A55 to the A77 as I will always maintain two FF cam and one APS-C for the crop factor which I occasionally need (telephoto work).
I find that noise in the FF cam’s (and this is all manufacturers) just looks filmic whereby the fine details seem to be preserved in the image however with my A55 the noise just absolutely kills the fine detail (and that’s in RAW so not because of the JPEG noise reduction).
DONT GET ME WRONG I LOVE SLT and personally I can’t wait to ditch the mirrors It’s just that the new sensor which Sony is rumored to have developed needs to be absolutely awesome to take that 1/2 stop SLT hit. Yes I do also agree the A900 sensor tech is outdated (it;s scaled up A700 tech and just look at those results in DXOMark), imagine what will happen when the new APS-C sensor is upscaled….What we need (right now Sony!) is a scale up of the brilliant 16MP Sensor to full frame (36MP) with a 12MP pixel binning option. Stick inside the A77 body with a few AF tweaks and yes you finally have the Camera that will shut the f**ing wingers up and put Sony ahead of all of it’s competitors. Right I’m off to earn some money with my beloved Sony cameras now, enjoy shooting your cats and bookshelves 😉 Just kidding….
you sony users are pathetic 🙂