End of last week I told you that Sony is developing a camera which has a sort of a hybrid mount. I don’t know how it works but our smart readers found a camera that has a kind of hybrid mount (thanks!). The original [shoplink 10295 ebay]Contax rangefinder[/shoplink] made from the 1930ies to the 50ies had two bayonets! [shoplink 10295 ebay](Click here to see them on eBay)[/shoplink]. Camerapedia explains how this works: “This mount is in fact the combination of two bayonets. There is a focusing helical built in the body and the standard lenses mount directly in that focusing ramp via an internal bayonet. So the standard lenses have no focusing ring of their own. The other lenses mount on an external bayonet and have their own focusing ring, only the rangefinder coupling is done via the body’s focusing ramp.”
You can see a nice image that shows the two different type of mounts here: http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/16753502. Now imagine a Full Frame camera with an inner mount for NEX lenses and an outer mount for Alpha lenses. Could it work? Does it make sense at all? I hope my sources can soon give me the answer how this should work for real! 😉
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P:S.: Zeiss Ikon Contax I, II and III can still be found [shoplink 10295 ebay]here on eBay[/shoplink].
61 Responses
But will nex to leica m adapters still work? If so, this is a great idea, sony. I so hope that this rumor will become reality. D
The problem with Sony is not only the type of Bayonet, but the different angle of field between the lense A and E.
“angle of field” is not an actual word or term. IF you mean angle of view or field of view, then that is dependent on the lens, which does not change wether it’s on an A or E camera. The focal length remains identical, a 16mm lens on an Alpha camera is a 16mm lens on a NEX camera.
Physically impossible, different focal flange distance. Don’t even think about it, it’ll never happen.
Not impossible. Just think if you can adjust sensor in the perpendicular direction to the image plane, then you can adjust flange distance. Just like a sensor-shift steady shot in the z-direction!
Why would it be impossible? No reason they can’t make a mount that can change position.
Would it worth to put a Nex lens on a full frame body? Maybe some lens for movie making?
I don’t think its worth it at all. Why on earth would Sony design a system that allows what are essentially DT lenses to mount on a fullframe body? I think this speculation is WAY OFF
I think only if it’s an APS-C sensor with no mirror. Now my head hurts, thanks Admin!
I’d rather sony develop a kind of a new hybrid mount definition for itself, instead of copying contax concept that’s nearly 80yrs ago.. Maybe i’m a bit picky, but I’m not interested nor excited at a camera holding alpha and e mount lens at all.. To me, A mount and E mount are at different markets and donna what is the need to merge them into a camera.. Spend the resources to produce more e-mount lens is more important, coz I wanna use my a-mount lens on Nex camera is simply because there are no lens options out there for Nex!
It’s not about copying an almost a century old German design. It’s about showing the possibilities. Yes, there are cameras with two mounts for a common film/sensor, and it did work quite well in practice. Without being an absolute kludge.
Of course Sony would not copy it straight, but the concept of having two mounts within
eachother (in a concentric way), maybe even with moving one mount in or out by motor to change backfocus, woult be one possibility for Sony.
Oh by the way, E-Mount(NEX) is almost EXACTLY the same as Nikon’s F mount. You can try to mount a Nex lens to a Nikon body, it’ll fit, and it’ll even lock.
I use my Nikon-Nex adapter as a macro tube for Nikon and Nex cameras all the time. 🙂
That probably means, you can fit a FF sensor into the E-mount area.
you haven’t taken into consideration the differing flange distances between your NEX lenses and Nikon F- the E system lenses are not designed with full-frame in mind, and will likely give you garbage performance unlike a Nikon F on a 35mm body
That’s not the point, the point is that the E-Mount is large enough to house a Full Frame sensor inside.
The problem here is, full frame Emount will be a lot of trouble on existing Emount lens which are designed to be 1.5 X
so what is the point of chopping it down?
this hybrid thing will be like an enlarged nex with powerful sensor. I doubt Sony is going to introduce a completely NEW mount therefore i guess this camera is intend for those want to use adaptors for lenses made by OTHER brands. Meaning a pro level control full frame that has same NEX lens specs and able to use adaptor to be a Alpha full frame…
how they pull off a hybrid lock system is unknown but if such thing exist, then it would be a dark horse in sales as many many people in other camps will be tempted to go get one for a spin!!!
Why Sony want to use back very old technology that long time already exist if this is real case? i mean not because old tech mean bad, but why manufacturer abandone it at the 1st place? a FF dslr that can support a mount and e mount does not mean anything to me in term of improving the image quality, performance and capability but just compatibility.
why not organic sensor since sony already have organic EVF 🙂 that help fixing Sony lack in high ISO performance.
Compatability? What’s wrong with that? Let us hope Sony makes poor man’s Leica M9 better than M9
Why are you talking like Sony is actually confirmed to be doing this? This is speculation. Hell, it wasn’t even suggested that Sony was copying Contax exact design. Get a grip.
I’d love to see FF digital back from Sony for which you by default get attachable A-mount. I think there were some rumors in the past about Sony thinking about modularized camera. It would be so great to have that idea realized as some problems simply disappear… You prefer OVF? No problem, here’s one for you to attach, and here is EVF if you change your mind. 24mp is too much? Buy our cheaper 16mp APS-C digital back. It wouldn’t take long to see third party elements for such modularized system… ie. film back, mounts for all other systems so you could use any glass… Ok. Time to wake up 🙂 But I still think that hybrid mount can be simply detachable mount – a first step to modularized system.
+one more suggestion: lens module for scanning film 😉
Why not? Ricoh is already going it that way. Hybrid is the key word for next years. I love cameras that I can modify in many ways.
Ricoh idea combining lens + sensor (the most expensive parts ATM) in one module is flawed
This to me is much more feasible, and much more useful to photographers.
If it was going to be a dual mount arrangement (which I doubt, but anyway), it’d be more along the lines of the Orion Miranda T than the old Contax rangefinders.
Sony seems to be getting more aggressive. Which is not a bad thing, I just wish they would concentrate on developing the NEX line a bit more. The NEX7 is a great body waiting for great lenses and I think the C3 could do with a few reasonably priced primes, finally the 5N seems to be capable of doing it all. To me it seems the gap is in the available lenses, not bodies. Maybe the hybrid mount has nothing to do with the NEX line, but rather is Cine/Hollywood/”Let’s get Canon and Red”-oriented.
I don’t think the people who design bodies are the same team that do lenses, so its not an either/or issue. Its probably that lenses are actually harder to create/build (almost totally manual assembly for lenses, with lots of manual adjustment in QA, something that mirrorless bodies dont really have)
Sure, but the NEX system is still a Sony development. It is not like the lenses are coming from a different company. Sony can still decide to allocate funds to whatever is a priority for Sony in general. Of course there is no telling what Sony has planned for 2012, but a fourth NEX-related body seems a bit much.
But then again, I’m planning on buying either a C3 or 5N and will do so in anticipation of more prime lenses. So I guess I’m biased. 😉
Now I realized that the photographic future is on the hands of Sony, canikon only bring more of the same thing every year, I don’t see any of them looking to the future as Sony do right now.
Sony “Make.believe”
Nikon “Con.man”
Canon “Fire in the hole”
lol….. 😀
FYI
The Maranda Cameras of the 1960 through the 1980 also had a hybrid lens mount.
The lens mount of MIRANDA Auto Sensorex has on its outside a 4-claw bayonet mount and on its inside a screw mount of 44mm diameter (All MIRANDA cameras and lenses have the same standard lens mount)
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/miranda/miranda_ee/miranda_ee-2.htm
could it be a changable lens mount on the body? something like tamron’s adaptall-2 but on the camera body and with auto focus for other mount lens.
Why a Nex mount on a full frame camera. The Nex lense are only APS-C coverage, why would this make any sense ?
It doesn’t, and I can’t believe Andrea posted this as a possibility. Who would buy a 36mp fullframe 3K camera and mount garbage aps-c glass on it?
In addition to Miranda, look at the Canon rangefinders. Leica screw and a breech lock mount.
The rumored “hybrid” mount of Sony will have nothing in common with any of these as the camera registries are vastly different.
Sure it can be done. Ideal would be “no mount” just with some simple screw and lock, then electronic adapter for NEX or SLT adapter for Sony Alpha.
Which in end would allow using very short flange focal distance and as result any lens you want. Add decent full-frame sensor on top of that (16-20 mpix would be best) and you have dream camera for everything..
My “ideal” arrangement would be the “no mount” and none of the “shotgun” mechanical shutter that is in the NEX’ now.
No mount and electronic shutter. 🙂
and why would anyone formally support the rival competition? who would have to support in the camera’s firmware???
Sony has a hybrid mount cameras like
http://www.dcresource.com/images/news/sony_051110/NEX-5-Blk+LA-EA1+30M28-Sep-3Qtr-1200.jpg
Nex
Seems similar to the Contax
I’ve been saying this for awhile, but copying the Contax/Nikon rangefinder mount in a modern mirrorless camera would be brilliant, for one reason – you could potentially make any lens autofocus.
Point of history, the Pentax 67, Certain models of Exacta and several others used this technique of “hybrid” mounts
It still makes better sense to make a fully mirrorless full frame alpha mount camera with a great EVF.
Not if everyone’s going to bitch about the size.
Only possible solution is that the FF Nex will use an A mount opening. The current NEX mount is too small for a 35mm sensor. The Hybrid is an A mount with moveable flange.
Only possible if camera has no mirror due to the tiny flange distance of E lenses (18mm); in which case you might as well have a separate alpha adaptor like the lea2 with pellicle mirror. If the mirror flaps up so that the E lenses were actually recessed within the camera… it would make the lenses impossible to use, since you wouldn’t be able to get at focusing etc. Also, I assume lens diameters would restrict what lenses could be used (alpha mount diameter is likely smaller than most e mount lens diameters.
Interesting possibility: full frame version of e mount camera, which allows for e mount in cropped mode, but can also utilise a new range of full frame mirror-less lenses. You could also use these lenses on an e mount camera with an adaptor.
It kinda makes sense. Emount can very well cover a full frame sensor at ta little increase in flange distance from the current 18mm. May be they’d just increase a little like 20mm, But the mount is still E. And there are just an outer mount where you can attach A-mount lenses. And if you fancy using your existing lens collection from any other brand, you buy yourself an adaptor.
I happened to have inherited one of these contax rf’s with the double bayonet and have been considering throwing the lens on my nex to play with. Can anyone help me out finding the proper adapters? Will it even be worth it?
It is OK. I have a Contax II.
Sorry, You can find on eBay. Rather expensive, about 220-270 USD.
You can buy the cheapest nex-contax rf adapter and a cheap Kiev IV (or II) camera, take a bayonet out of it and mount them together creating your own adapter, as I did 🙂
And it works fine 🙂
Pellicle mirror, now, this hybrid mount. Sony is doing what other camera makers have failed to do in the past 10 years. Bringing the excitement back into photo equipment. However novel they might be.
As far as the NEX register being too short for FF, Well perhaps the hybrid mount solves exactly that. A camera that can use both crop NEX lenses and future FF NEX lenses.
Sony actually hurt themselves with E mount. They did not think through how easily other lenses could be adapted to it. Each, other brand lens adapted on the NEX is a lens sale lost for Sony. They are losing lens sale money on NEX, and they know it. I’m sure the bean counters are putting pressure on that any new mount not be something other lenses can not be easily adapted to but something that locks out other mounts. Force folks to buy Sony lenses only, that fits their way exactly. That sure sounds like the most likely thing with this new mount.
It is true that NEX became the camera for using other/legacy lenses and some people might be just happy with adapting whatever lenses they have. There is some potential loss there.
But the real problem is not that NEX is such a welcoming camera. It is the lack of E-mount lenses. E-mount line up is extremely limited.
Would it really be possible to come up with such a compact camera with the A-mount. I don’t think so. But then, despite the tiny size of the camera, the lenses are still not that small: another issue with E-mount, caused by the sensor size and camera being so ‘thin’.
I also want to remind that Sony recently made the E-mount open. So any vendor can make E-mount lenses, without having to pay Sony any license fees. This gives a hint about them being ready to sacrifice selling lenses.
From what it looks, Sony is thinking longer term and investing in building the NEX and E-mount as a brand and making it available and popular. Over time they might build a good line-up and start making money on the lenses.
E-mount is not open. Who ever said it was?
Highlights from: http://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/www/e_mount/en/detail.html
*Application from individuals will be declined*
*However, a part of expenses related to distribution of the Basic Specifications will be charged to the applicant*
*Download Link for Non-Disclosure Agreement Form*
There are virtually no e-mount lenses that could be hurt by competition from non e-mount lenses.
Many people would not even consider using manual lenses in modern times.
CONTAX was the best brand !
N digital was the first Full Frame !
CONTAX have alltime original ideas.
Hoping SONY will take the way of innovation in a near future !
Though VEB Zeiss Ikon and Yashica/Kyocera were completely separate companies, and the Contax cameras each produced had nothing to do with each other.
The N Digital was only slightly earlier than the Kodak 14n.
It is a shame SONY didn’t buy CONTAX.
The E mount lenses are so pathetically incomplete that one can hardly base what might hurt Sony on just those. That would assume Sony would never want to complete the lens range.
The characteristics of the mount, combined with using a large sensor cripples the NEX for ever being a fully complete small system. That is why it’s pretty much limited to the wide angle end of lenses before it has no size advantage.
I, personally would not consider a NEX type camera unless it had manageable long tele in it’s own native mount. In other words a full range from wide angle focal lengths to long tele focal lengths of at least 400mm. Plus, of course, macro. Plus of course taking regular Sony/Minolta flash mount.
It’s consumer bridge camera competition does this very well due to limiting sensor size. With increasing improvements in sensors, including small sensors the NEX has a problem that may very well end it’s run.
i dont thingm that the Emount was ever planned to go much more the 200mm
and really i think its more for the 16- 150 range
PL Cine lens bayonet with snap on ring to cover gap when an Alpha lens is mounted?
I would assume it would be more like the Ricoh, to me, two mounts doesn’t make much sense – but a rangefinder-style camera that can take full-frame lenses does. Now that I think about it though, two mounts with a crop mode makes just as much sense. I’m interested in seeing what happens.