via Image sensor world.
Panasonic Japan released a pdf file (download here) describing the features of a new 4K Four Thirds sensor with 16,4 Megapixel! Panasonic claims that this will be the lowest noise sensor on the market! Note, this isn’t the organic sensor they developed with Fuji. For that you will have to wait til 2015.
As you know two weeks ago we published the full GH4 camera specs and this could be the real GH4 sensor. Panasonic is likely to release the camera within the first half of 2014.
Here are the full sensor specs:
Impressive!
As I told you before the GH4 has a “partial” modular system. Some parts of the camera can be upgraded in time. The camera is placed well above the GH3 and will NOT replace it. Here are the specs I got from one of my sources:
Panasonic GH4
16mp
1/8000 shutter
1mil dot OLED screen
21mm OLED viewfinder, 3,000+ dot.
Time code
200mbps mp4 All-i/100mbps IPB
4k/30p
4:2:2 10/8bit output
3G-SDI and XLR adaptor (An adaptor that the camera sits on with XLR x2, HD-SDI x4)
Price: €2799
Overall it sounds likt we don’t have to wait til Photokina in September to get soem great new stuff. Also Olympus is set to release a great MFT camera already in February!
113 Responses
Sounds good! What about raw?
I hope the other features justify the price!
the sensor is always raw
But there’s no use if the company compresses the raw into 8bit data, is there! And I ain’t keen on waiting for a hack, especially if the cam costs around Chf 3000.-.
This is about the sensor itself. Hopefully the camera will have 10bit 4:2:2 something.
For me ~3K would be enough I’d use it to crop/zoom/stabilize to 1080p.
Panasonic not use the number 4. It is a superstitions.
But.. they can use the term 4K… thus GH-4K… see? It’s not a GH4… but a GH-4K. Sneaky way around using the number 4.
This is not a hard and fast rule.
Panasonic cameras:
DMC-FZ4
DMZ-TZ4
DMC-TS4 = DMC-FT4
Number 4 sounds like 死, death in Chinese letter. So some Asian countries tends to avoid this number.
Sounds good, but I don’t understand this video specs. My only question is – will the GH4 have 5-axis IBIS for video? If not, I can see soon incessant whining posts about Olympus having to release a 4K video with high spec video features in their OM-D models. I sincerely wish that Panasonic will include 5-axis IBIS and other good specs for movie making in this GH4, thereby leaving Olympus to focus on still photo quality. Olympus is not going to be able to compete in the video capable cameras with Panasonic, Sony or Black Magic,… So it is best for it get only photo quality, and not compromise its camera design with video considerations like using an EVF that is too wide and henced poorer quality than possible, or a sensor that is compromised in some characteristics due to video consideration. Let there be choices and specialization, which is what M43 can do to distinguish itself from other mirrorless cameras, with the tiny GM1, the pro spec cameras specially designed for video, and some specialized for still photos (and some in-betweens that naturally must be compromised), range finders shaped ones, SLR like ones, …
Isn’t the 5-axis IBIS an Olympus technology? I haven’t heard of them licensing it to anyone yet, except Sony for some of their future cameras. It seems Panasonic is currently attempting to implement their own IBIS, but they’ve got a few more axis to go to get to 5.
http://mirrorlesscentral.com/panasonic-introduces-hybrid-o-i-s-5-point-image-stabilization-on-tz40-zs30/
http://camcorders.reviewed.com/news/panasonic-reveals-five-new-camcorders-including-3mos-hc-x920.htm
X920,X929 doesn’t use IBIS. It has optical+electronic(sensor crop) stabilisator.
It works very well I have it.
IBIS makes a lot of heat because of this they don’t use is for the video.
That’s what we want here: RUMORS !
Even crazy ones.
We wanna dream here.
Nice…it will have the same price as the D800…I love MFT but with those kind of prices it will be a sales flop. Just like the Nikon Df apears to be judging by the number of pre-orders.
The success of a product is not in the number of units sold but in the profit it generates to the company. They both, Nikon and Panasonic, could well sell very few of theses cameras but still make a profit, which is the point for any business (I’m not saying they will -profit- but that they could and they are the ones that can know and judge the end result).
This said, I don’t understand half of the rumored specs so I guess it’s another gadget for videographers. Thanks Olympus, and others like Nikon for that matter, still care about photographers.
Agreed, and I’ll add that Nikon will make a profit on the DF because they realized that there is low demand, and manufactured a low supply.
I will say, though, that every single camera in the market takes fantastic stills. There really isn’t any more innovation to be had on the stills front besides auto focus speed and megapixels. Because of this, companies are trying to differentiate their products by innovating on the one aspect that lacks in all their cameras: video. And, notably, Nikon (being rectified quickly), Olympus (promised to improve video), and Pentax (not as much now) all have quite bad video capabilities.
I have nothing against video in a camera (other than it sometimes adds complexity and increases the price, for example in the case of ports you won’t use -mic, headphones- or when you can’t customize a rec button’s function and it becomes a useless control) and I understand that companies must add it to compete with others, it’s that I love variety and not having interest in video I miss more stills oriented cameras. I don’t like the Nikon Df but I love they released something like it, and Fuji is doing a great work with their X series which have video but in a way that doesn’t get in the middle. Then there’s Leica… But I guess we will see more stills oriented cameras in the near future as the camera market continues to shrink and companies fiercely fight for every possible niche.
digital cameras have so much built in possibilities, most users dont even know or care about, because they dont need it for their style. I dont feel the need for stopping down the aperture value, so I never use that, and I dont think removing the aperture control will makea difference in cost. There are alot of other things I would not miss(too much to list lol).But I dont mind they are there, because its all standard in the spec list of such camera. Video? I am glad its there, because it allows me to learn another disciplin, or at least play with it. Actually I see both still and film with the same interest.
So in sum your complaint about video-enabling these cameras is that there’s one extra button you can’t use for stills, and you have to pay for an un-needed head-phone port?
Cry me a river …
You can’t compare the Nikon DF sales to this. That Nikon is a very niche product, and Nikon absolutely knew that when they were designing it. Also, why do you think this will be a flop? Look all over the internet by Googling “GH4” and you’ll see a lot of people are going crazy over this camera.
Even if the GH4K costs as much as a D800 it will be totally worth it if it happens to delivers on what it promises!
Sales flop, like the GH3?
Well, the GH3 wasn’t a flop, so I’d doubt this would be too. It’s primarily for video and it’s 4K compatible, so calling it a flop, without even knowing the price and specs is Laughable.
Typical Panasonic hate…
Full frame is dead. Canon 1DC at $15K will only be bought by guilty trust fund liberals who want to change the world with their heart-felt “documentaries.”
Andrei, you are clueless. This is intended for high-end video production, and not to compete with still cameras. Does the D800 do 4K video? No. Do you understand the distinction? Didn’t think so.
It will be a huge succes because it costs a mere 35% of what the Sony PMW-EX1 vidcam costs. Only very few people will buy a video cam that costs more than 2800 dollar now that this Panny is announced…..Just ask Andrei, he’ll tell you!
4K for that price will be a huge success. Get real.
Given the rumored specs of the GH4, this is going to be aimed at the pro-video market (like me), so one would assume they would sell fewer than a consumer video camera. There would probably also be a higher profit margin, and an entirely different market who will think this price point is a steal for what they are getting for their needs.
It will be a flop in terms of sales to one crowd. But it will most likely be a smashing success in sales to another.
Since we are talking video, how about Zebra pattern?
I’m pretty sure it’ll have zebras, peaking, waveforms, etc. It’s a “video camera first” camera, so it should have everything. I hope Panasonic is not that stupid to leave that stuff out to protect some higher priced model (ala Canon 1DC).
The PDF links to another page, with the following video on the sensor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPec2EaBSSM
So Pana cannot deliver BSI nor OSPDAF and thus behind everybody and has to spin its old tech. 🙁
they build smart(super) FSI that QE better than BSI today ,please search on image-sensor-world for knowledge
then you will change idea BSI good/best but this not mean it’s (BSI) always better.
So far I have seen the tests of their cameras vs cameras with the BSI sensors of the same size, and Pana always loses, no matter what they say in the ads. Maybe in the future it will not be so.
http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2011/09/image-sensors-at-iedm-2011.html
panasonic 1.4um FSI
I hope Panasonic never does BSI for m43. Never liked the low ISO results from BSI sensors.
OSPDAF actually degrades image quality but of course Olympus, Fuji and Sony will never admit that. The GX7 already has the fastest autofocus even in low light without any crappy OSPDAF. In that sense they are way ahead. Canon’s Dual Pixel tech is the only implementation that doesn’t degrade image quality, and that is why it is so interesting… Also Panasonic NMOS sensors have great colour reproduction, closer to the CCD of old, but of course most gear heads won’t care about that. I hope Panasonic keeps doing what they do best and do not fall prey to these marketing gimmicks…
Where is the link?
admin: at the bottom of the PDF… the link is:
http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/rd/?id=2003-002
thanks!
100/200fps in 1080p/720p is a must have!
New “On Chip Filter” for improved sensitivity = On Chip Noise Reduction like Fuji?
I think that means the readout. For example it reads four adjacent pixels and middles them for less noise in video.
22,5 fps? 14,7 fps? What does it mean?
It is full-sensor read speeds. It takes 1/22.5 s to read full sensor in 10-bit mode (or you can read 22 frames per second), 1/14.7 s to read full sensor in 12-bit mode. Obviously video uses crops (and in FullHD 1080p mix of 4 adjacent pixels, 9 in 720p).
Ok, but we are talking about 4K res not FullHD or 720p. So how does it fit to 30 fps or even 24fps. Is it lowest possible fps for this sensor?
As I speculated in a comment on one of the previous GH4K posts, this is probably “just” a new 4K ETC mode which, if true, would obviously only use around half of the total pixels, and that would imply that you could theoretically halve (or double, if you want to look at it the other way) the read times for the entire sensor.
Size of the sensor says it is multiformat.
Where does it say that? m43 standard is 17.3 x 13 mm, this sensor is 0.3mm larger in both dimensions which is insignificant as far as aspect ratio is concerned.
17.65mm wide active area is bigger than the standard. Unless they always crop, could be used for 3:2 at higher width/pixel count than a straight crop from 4:3.
But maybe it is just for digital stabilization of video.
I think it’d be for distortion correction for the wide angle lenses. Ever tried adjusting distortion manually in Lightroom (or whatever)? You find that you have to crop the image after because it isn’t square anymore. I think they make the lenses a tiny bit oversized so that when they do this crop, they are reducing the image to the size that it should be, rather than smaller. Just a thought. 0.35mm is pretty small.
240fps/481fps high speed mode! nice…
720 60p nice…
1080 60p nice…
2k 30p nice…
4k 30p nice…
But it better get its frame rates covered…
720, 1080 & 2k should do: 60p, 50p, 30p, 25p, 24p
4k should do 30p, 25p, 24p
4K is probably conciddered a cinimar output so should deffinatly cover 24fps. But 25 and 30 would be usefull for consumer 4K TV sets.
Don’t mess this up panasonic!
I wonder which lenses will be able to take advantage of the 481 fps for AF.
All of them… AF will still be the same speed – normaly when looking at 300+ fps the event is short, the recording only a few sec and the scean is setup – most probably MF pereset at a target area…
Although if the AF pumps during the recording it will be a problem as it will slowly breath in and out of focus not just a tiny flicker!
Sound very interesting, but i wonder why they do not move to a 14bit sensor for improved tonal and colour transition. Is there any technical constraints?
maybe data rate???
But agree, more bits the better 🙂
When 10 bits produce 22 fps, 12 bits produce 14 fps, how much will by produced with 14 bits?
video raw?
We need RAW not 4K!
I want that sensor in GX8 :).
How do we know that this senzor is not already in GX7?
They state “lowest noise on the market” => it means this senzor is already on the market => GX7 & GM1
Thought so, too. I mean Nikon intentionally disabled video on a sensor that is capable of video. Panasonic could have just switched a few software buttons. Of course, there’s also optimizations in software, different readout in hardware etc.
LORD HAVE MERCY!
for what it’s worth i shot last night with the GH3 (I own a 5D Mk III as well) and I LOVED it.
so while we wait for the latest and greatest, what we have is pretty awesome too.
Looks quite promising. Rock on, Panasonic!
It looks like a kind of global shutter, isn’t it?
No, it’s progressive 🙁
HOLY SHIT!!!
Admin, would the “on chip filter” be the same as the micro colour splitter? That’s also supposed to dramatically increase sensitivity, and I imagine the term ‘MCS’ won’t be used in marketing when products are sold that use it as it’s inexplicable to anyone without an interest in sensor design…
The specs say “RGB Bayer pattern” which means no micro splitters. Micro splitters are supposed to eliminate Bayer array completely.
i guess beyond of current color filter ,
have you ever modify ND filter ,yes that is remove filter and this on-chip mean you can not remove filter
because they integrate filter to chip(Image Sensor) 😉
No one has mentioned what kind of SD cards this will require. Prob SDXC UHS II aka MicroP2 cards.
admin, any more info on the great olympus MFT camera in February?
I see people will keep bitching about 24 and 25 fps…
Get over it already!
Ever heard about much of the world using 50hz power cycle? Come back when you understand why that makes 25/50fps quite a must-have for a video camera.
24fps? You call yourself cameraman but don’t understand why a video camera should have that?
lol
Its not something I have the luxary to get over.
If I turn up to my emplyers with 30p footage they will not pay me and Im out of work.
So please, kust try to understand, 25p is the chosen STANDARD, its not up to the cameraman. But Panasonic would never ever ever make a 4k camera without an option for 24,25 and 30p. Because they make pro cameras for pros working with ideo or both stills and ideo, they arent Olympus.
Can’t do any paid work in UK/EU with 30fps… only USA and WEB…. nuff said!
Slightly disappointed to see that there is not a 14 bit RAW option too…
+1
But I hope the 14bit raw to be announced with the final specs 🙂
@Bobafett,NeroMetalliko
“But I hope the 14bit raw to be announced with the final specs”
Forget about 14 bit RAW: the spec clearly states “it number of internal ADC is 12 bit” – usually they do not change the core hardware specs.
honestly guys if you are so interested in image quality that 14bit RAW is a deal breaker why would you possibly be using the smallest serious format on the market
@hartNDSG1 hour ago | Reply
“honestly guys if you are so interested in image quality that 14bit RAW is a deal breaker why would you possibly be using the smallest serious format on the market”
Because the format is so mature that there is no technical limitation for 14 bit RAW for stills (I mean the noise which).
However, I do not know if there are issues in using a 14 bit sensor for less than 12 bit 4K video.
This is a video-first camera, Nero. Do you have any idea how much data is generated for 14bit raw at high frame rates? You’d need a super-computer to do anything with it.
Yes I know, but at that price the possibility/option (selectable in menu) to get a 14 bit RAW file for stills should be considered in any case imho.
In addition there could be the additional possibility that the same sensor could be mounted on other models too, and I think that 14 bit RAW for stills is a feature that should be kept in consideration for the future.
We do not need high res/frame rates with 14 bit, but 1080p/24,25, 30fps RAW (even with 12 bit) would be fine.
I REALLY hope this remains affordable. If Panasonic wants to sell this for more they should put these features in the AF1XX instead.
Okay so, any news on the G7? 🙂
2799 Euros, ouch!!
As almost all here agree that the sensor and the associated camera is primarily for video, what does that mean for stills oriented customers? The sensor does not seem to have PDAF and at that price this is not an exciting package. It fits that Panasonic doesn’t have fast tele lenses neither in their portfolio (apart from the 35 – 100 mm / 2.8) nor on the roadmap. Maybe the sensor, the camera(s) and the lenses will follow but at the moment it seems like Olympus more and more becomes the company for photographers.
To be a real PRO camera in stills area they should bring us 14 bit ADC but that has not happen :(. Panasonic is still lag behind the IQ champions.
There is a 150mm F2.8 on the way.
Make it a proper shoulder mount with a real viewfinder and I’ll buy 2!
“RAW” or really 4:2:2 on the HDMI or SDI out (looks like 8-bit, 10-bit would be nice though)
Compressed AVCHD or some other more professional compressed codec on-body would suit me fine.
For more professional capabilities than that – buy or rent an Epic, F55, etc… because if you really need that, your going to have a multi-million dollar budget for production. Otherwise your probably deluding yourself.
If you want RAW just get Blackmagic, for me RAW is not that important since most of the jobs have time constrain, only use it for personal projects where time is no issue. And you need a lot more HDD and most expensive SD cards you can buy for RAW recording. (ppl already bitching their 64GB only record short amount of footage on RAW)
It is also important for green / blue screen and SFx shots, but like I mentioned before, I don’t find this a hugely relevant feature on a camera under $4K. 14-bit is insane. 10-bit would be beyond expectation, but nice to have, anything else is a bonus. I would imagine Panasonic camera would be inexpensive, light, small, and something that one would shoot personal projects on, or spec work to get to funding stage, then bring in heavy guns for finish work. It could also be “crash cam” or special insert shot type of camera.
Another m43 sensor????? PFFFFFFF!!!! BUUUUUUU!!!!!
Put inside camera an apsc sensor, Panasonic
Reply to myself
And only 16mpx on still image, only on stills with 4:3 aspect (awful aspect). 3:2 and 16:9 are cool, but 4:3 is horrible, big time :((((((. So if you want 16:9, get ready to get 12 mpx photos, BUUUU!!!!
Panasonic, very very bad :\
For printing purposes 4:3 is much more convenient as the format is closer to the international paper sizes in general. With 3:2 your photos will either be smaller printed or more cropped.
You are so right it is almost impossible to find anywhere to print 6×4 inch,9×6 inch,12×8 inch, 18×12 inch , 30x20inch, 36×24 inch.Oh wait I am wrong you can get those sizes from just about every lab on the planet hell even your local Costco store covers all those sizes.
You probably haven’t noticed but the vast majority of cameras are 3×2 ratios mFT has about 7% of the entire market meaning 93% use 3×2.
Probably of more importance is the screen size 16×9 is increasingly becoming the standard for PC monitor and is the standard for TV monitors for video 4×3 is a poor choice with a lot of waste to get to 16×9 compared to the 3×2 options.I use mFT all the time in 16×9 0r 3×2 i wish Panasonic had kept the larger sensor size of the gh2 moving forward
And yet the PC market is declining in favour of tablets. The iPad, of course, uses 4:3…
The vast, vast majority of cameras used are in 4:3 format – compacts, iPhones…
Saying that 4:3 wastes more space than 3:2 on a widescreen presumes the photos are in landscape orientation. In portrait orientation that situation will be reversed.
Anyway, it’s not only about the display medium but about the aesthetic qualities of the aspect ratio. Painters have much more flexibility over the shape of the medium they compose on than photographers do and the history of the Western 2D image design tradition over centuries has shown a clear preference for squarer aspect ratios such as 4:3 and 5:4 over more oblong ratios like 3:2. Go into any good art gallery and look at what the Old Masters used.
Also, 3:2 in portrait orientation can look horribly pinched and narrow, IMHO. 4:3 in portrait orientation gives the subject much more ‘room to breathe’.
LOL, how does that work out for the TV market , as for the Ipad every TV show,music video or movie you download for it is in either a cinema { widescreen format} or 16×9 meaning a significant waste of space. And yes I am assuming every video I watch will be in the landscape format
The most significant compositional ratio is Leonardo Fibonacci’s divine proportion or golden ratio of 1:1.618 { 3.2×2 } which fits the 3×2 sensor/film ratio almost perfectly.
The majority of great works of art are far closer to a 3×2 ratio than a 4×3 ratio .
For portraits a 1:1 ratio is probably the most balanced for head & shoulder type shots at least.Which 4×3 is closer to.
I think you will find 4:3 is most common in video and image viewing prior to the advent of HDTV and in that 3:2 is not the standard nor gets a lookin.
3:2 came to public notice as a result of using movie film strips in landscape mode in small modified still cameras Leica being a key here.
I think if, the 3:2 ratio or even indeed the golden ratio were in for any concideration the original movies. They would have employed a wider film that enabled 3:2 for movies not the 35mm 4:3 they chose.
But perhaps they knew, as did the TV people, that lenses were better at 4:3 than at 3:2 Something some photographers seem to have rediscovered in the M43 format.
Fred, happy searching for acknowledged masterpieces that use a golden rectangle aspect ratio… I’m not saying that none exist, but they are perhaps surprisingly rare.
Good luck even finding a canvas on the market that has those dimensions: http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949170 (also note the confusion of the questioner about why canvases mostly seem to be about 1:1.2 (i.e. roughly 5:4).
I’d say 4:3 is closer to to a way artists traditionally use the golden ratio (1:1.618…) than 3:2 (1:1.5). Recall that the diagonal of a rectangle 3 x 4 units long will be 5 units. The shorter side, 3, times the golden ratio gives you 4.9, i.e. almost exactly the length of the 4:3 diagonal. Drawing this diagonal across a 4:3 rectangle pretty much divides the frame into two Kepler triangles. A rectangle with a diagonal 1.618… x the length of the shorter side is called the root-phi rectangle. It has been extensively used in painting for centuries.
4/3 was requested from many filmmakers who use anamorphic who if I remember correctly said that a 4/3 crop works best for anamorphic lenses, this is probably the reason for them choosing 4/3. I also want to get into anamorphic stuff as I like the look of it too. All I want is weather sealed, same dynamic range as blackmagic, focus peaking, zebras, touch autofocus, wifi full live video control.
The anamorphic lens was first developed in the film industry when they wanted to use standard 35mm film to record images in widescreen format. The way they did it was to fit the film camera with a widescreen format lens that optically compressed the image so that it would fit into a 35mm film frame. Then when the film was played through a projection system, the projector was fitted with another lens that reversed the distortion. In that way the compressed image that was recorded on the 35mm film was projected onto the screen in natural, uncompressed widescreen format.
No “In body stab”, no buy.
Stabilization is not relevant for semi-pro or professional gear. Tripod, Stedi-cam, etc…
It’s not the GH4. It’ll be the the GH5.
No global shutter? Me = not a customer.
There are many typos in your story. Who is your editor?
If the FPS numbers under that “high speed mode” is true then i’m sold. I would sell my Canon 650D, Canon 18-55 & Sigma f/1.4 lenses and switch to GH4 in an instant if those numbers hold true. Gosh, nearly 500 FPS! (hopefully at acceptable resolution like 480 or 360p) Because i do a lot of slow motion work. Sadly my camera only allows 60FPS at 720p so i have to use Twixtor – horrible warping 🙁
In my humble opinion, only thing this camera lacks is the sensor size and thus the low light performance. I’ll have to buy new lenses which increases the cost.
I think it is over priced. I have gh2, but for mirrorless camera (not full frame) to give more then 2500 euros, is too much…