This is a post for tech freaks 🙂
The video on top explains the trend in CMOS development. If you don’t have time to watch the full video than just take a look to that screenshot. It shows the single tech trends which do include organic sensor and color splitter tech which are developed by Panasonic (in collaboration with Fuji):
I think it will not take much time until we see most of these tech inside Panasonic and Sony (for Olympus) sensors.
found via Image Sensor World.
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For anyone interested, here’s a great article on organic sensors, well worth reading: http://www.fujix-forum.com/index.php/topic/14830-just-what-is-this-new-organic-sensor-thing/
If anything in that article is remotely true, it looks like 1″ sensors, and m43 sensors stand to gain the most benefit as they are farther from FF in terms of DR and SNR than an APS-C is today. Would be awesome if this plays out in the next 2-3 years.
Let’s hope it is sooner. Wasn’t Fuji targeting 2015?
What stands for “QE” ?
Quantum Efficiency.
I see. thank you.
The number of electron-hole-pairs created (on a pixel, for example) per number of incident photons. Statistically. In other words, the probability of a photon actually being detected on the sensor. Averaged across the whole sensor, monochrome CCDs can get to almost 100% for green light. CMOS sensors get to about 60 or 70%. For color-filtered sensors, peak spectral QE is significantly worse, hence the room for improvement in some of these technologies.
I don’t see Olympus getting this sensor around the same time as Fuji-Panasonic.
One, it’s probably going to be expensive.
Two, Olympus is well known for milking the same sensor and takes a while to upgrade it’s cameras with newer sensors.
Three, Olympus barely has money for new development. I’m sure they won’t be adding a new sensor to thier cameras any time soon.
Four, if I was Fuji or Panasonic, I would want my cameras to have the newer sensors FIRST. Why would I give it to competition?
Hopefully it’s a APS-C or Full Frame sensor, that can take advantage of the size of the sensor, compared to the smaller Four Thirds sensor.
Full frame would be impractical because of the large bandwidth required for pixel readout. It would also mean too large file sizes with no real advantage. The sweet spot is around M43/APS-C size. 2-times pixel density and 88 dB dynamic range. This amounts to ~29 stops (in theory)… I guess nobody will need FF anymore if this technology makes it into production.
You don’t know squat about optics right? Did you make it past 5th year?
88dB is not 29 stops. And that’s not as high as the rating on the Sony full frame sensors, either ;~).
As I’ve said before, this tech will likely appear in small sensor cameras, not large sensor ones. As in smartphones, autos, security cameras. All of which are now larger markets than interchangeable lens cameras.
A “stop” is a base-2 logarithmic unit while dB is a base-10 unit. Since 2^10 roughly equals to 10^3 it can be said that 3 stops approximately represent 10 dB. 88 dB = 8.8 B = 10^8.8 = 2^29.2 = 29.2. It also depends on how you calculate the range – whether it’s the full range or just half the range in either direction from some reference value. I agree about the technology applications – there’s way more money to be made in automotive/medical industries than cameras.
Good that you fixed that, I thought you were an idiot. Whew.
Your time is better spent on learning what these numbers mean instead of trolling.
Learning like you? LOL.
One DR stop is 6 dB, so 88 dB is about 14,666667 stops of DR
Yep, which is half the 29… see my reply below.
i think sweet spot is relative to whatever the current technology is. rx100 is starting to make my e-pm2 feel big, and even with small bodies the telephoto lenses are still huge on those systems relative to all the other electronics i carry.
Sony and Olympus are working togeher on organic sensors, so they probably don´t need to buy from Panasonic/Fuji
Olympus and Sony aren’t working together at all. Pure PR fluff… there is no technology exchange.
Such statements are made so Oly could continue to buy Sony sensors, and Sony sells a half million sensors to Oly a year, so it benefits them too.
You will never see a Zuiko on A-E mount, nor will you ever see 5 axis stabilization.
he didn’t say you would see zuiko on e-mount. he said olympus and sony are working together on organic sensors. why did you suddenly jump to other conclusions?
Smaller sensors with higher pixel density will profit more from most of these technologies. For technical reasons and for economic ones. Back-illuminated sensors are a good example: not even expensive scientific CMOS sensors are BI, but the tiny cheap ones with one-micron pixels in your cell phone are. It’s where the money is, and where the benefit is greatest. AFAIK the largest BI CMOS sensor is the 1″ 20 MP Sony sensor found in their compacts. Next will be m43, then APSC, etc.
so it’s exactly the other way around: much of the tech first comes to smaller sensors where it provides more benefit, compared to the larger sensors.
also the samsung nx mini is bsi cmos.
Yes because Panasonic’s (50% owned) sensor division is going to give them to Panasonic for free.
Get real.
These divisions within a large company operate as customers and suppliers of other divisions. It is why Sony’s sensor division will quite happily sell sensors to Sony imaging division’s main competitors
If they’re not economical viable for Olympus they’re also not economical viable for Panasonic.
Everything I’ve read indicates that this will enable small sensors initially. Phones, cars and med tech are likely candidates, along with extraordinary compact cameras. It will no doubt move to larger sizes as cost to produce falls. But M43 could become the new “large sensor” size for cameras. Presumably Fuji will want APS, but might start out with an X20 type of camera if such a large size is initially prohibitive. If this thing is real and lives up to the hype, it will be a total reset for imaging tools and the camera market. New leaders could emerge and finally topple Canon and Nikon. As for Olympus, I’d imagine that they’d just buy an organic sensor from Fujisonic instead of from Sony.
Organic vs. Corved sensors.
hyprid vs. Global shutter.
lense vs. Sensor OIS
5-axis vs. free axis (future hope) directional stabilization.
Cannot someone buy all imaging sectors and merge the best of all tech.
I can’t understand a thing the guy says. Sometimes I think he is talking about Chocolate, probably is more interesting that way.
er, i would think these will reach compact sensors first. not m43 or aps-c. panasonic could release an lx8 with 1/1.7 organic sensor that outperforms the rx100, nikon 1, etc.