There are five new Olympus E-P5 reviews to read: At Petapixel and Pixelmania (dutch) and Der Spiegel (German) and CameraLabs and TheOnlinePhotographer and Admiringlight and JJsemple. More or less they all say the same. It is a very good camera but the price and the competition are the main problems Olympus has to face. As you read on the New York Times (Click here) Olympus said that its sales of its signature mirrorless model, the PEN, had fallen 12 percent in the first quarter (below its expectations).
I hope Olympus learns the lesson and will be more courageous next time. Too many different and very similar PEN’s out there. And most of the time to pricey when they come out (and very cheap after 1-2 years). I hope the new E-M1 will not share the same fate of the E-P5 🙁
279 Responses
relatively too expensive!
It is absolutely overpriced. The EP5 body alone is the same price as the OMD @ release with no viewfinder and without the VF it has small incremental improvements over the OMD…of course it is not selling well and I am going to bet with the GX7 available for the same price with a sexy built in VF the EP5 will sell even more poorly until the price comes down considerably.
I actually think that the EP5 with the new VF attached is much more camera than the GX7 …but I too will wait for the price to come down considerably before I consider purchasing the kit with lens and VF. I think most people feel the same way…makes sense.
Because the majority of the Olympus faithful will wait for a substancial price drop.
The Frankenstein camera will have a worser fate…
“I actually think that the EP5 with the new VF attached is much more camera than the GX7”
An extra stop or so of stabilization against an EVF, electronic shutter, 1080p 24/50/60 video with superior codec and higher bitrates, fully featured wifi (manual control), NFC chip, sweep panorama, in-camera HDR, touch focus while looking through EVF, ETC Mode, +-5 Exp Comp, etc.
Even taking the EVF out of the equation (which you can’t, because the GX7 actually has one *sigh*), it’s tough to argue from a purely objective standpoint that the E-P5 is a more capable camera.
I should have qualified that I am a still shooter only…NEVER shoot video… Does not enter my equation in any way when I evaluate a camera..my bad for not saying so… The VF 4 is better than the VF in the GX7, the build quality is better…the Image stabilization …well there is no comparison there. I did mention that the EP5 is overpriced so the GX7 has got it in that dept. for now…
I think, with these two cameras it really depends on the purchaser’s preferences…and obviously you are video biased (with no stabilization on the GX7 I might ad) and I am still biased…
They are both great cameras.
BTW…CameraLabs gives an EXCELLENT & very thorough review…even comparing the EP5 to its main competitors (@ the end of the review before the verdict)…they do a great job of sizing up the EP5 directly with the GX7. Really excellent.
Haha! I love it, I really do, lol. “As someone who doesn’t use an EVF, the electronic shutter, or 1080p 24/60, I think the E-P5 is a better featured camera than the GX7.” Fanboys are such an incredibly entertaining bunch 🙂
YOu are the one that is biased and unreasonable. Even the reviews say that the GX7 vs the EP5 is a toss up but not to you???
YOU are just a Panny Fantard and cannot look at the situation fairly.
On the GX7 where is the:
1. Useful image stabilization …oh …only in the lenses?
2. IS for shooting your precious videos? (NONE)
3. NINE FRAMES PER SECOND…(oh only a whopping 5 on the GX7?)
4. Wireless, multiple remote controlled flash?
5. Microphone adapter for your precious video?
6. Viewfinder in the middle of the camera for lefties and righties????
Funny how biased you are.
As I said …it depends on what is important to the buyer as to which camera to buy..The EP5 will soon drop in price…and that will be the time to purchase one…
The GX7 is a good camera too….but you can look at the situation fairly? LOL!
I love my EP-3 and EPL3
I would like to buy the Ep-5 But its too pricey Ill wait a year and it will be half the price
The camera is too expensive 1,500 with lens and viewfinder
Right now you can buy an OM-D body for MUCH less than the EP-5
Cametta has the OM-D for around 700 refurbished and it has the built in viewfinder
The EP-5 is 1k then add 270 or so for the viewfinder That is why its NOT selling
+100 agree!
indeed. it’s got the same innards like all other oly cameras. the epl5 or the epm2 seem like the most reasonable options to me….
Olympus marketing sucks BIG time. These guys have absolutely no clue how to present their product to masses.
Neither the E-P5 nor the GX7 will sell well because the moronic masses only buy what’s cheap and BIG: rebels, d3x00’s, etc…
The E-P5 is an awesome camera. I am astounded how it is better than my D7000 on every level: better IQ, faster AF especially in low light, better controls, etc…
Not just the high price, but also because of a fundamental flaw, which I told them months ago.
No EVF, no buy.
we told them *years* ago.
Many many times. Did I say often. Or even quite a lot.
It’s a PEN, not an OMD.
“It’s a PEN, not an OMD”
Sorry! I don’t get that.
What does that have to do with anything? In an interview with Olympus, they were asked if OM-D having a VF means the PEN series will not have a built in VF. Olympus’s response was that being a PEN camera and having a built in VF are not mutually exclusive and then gave a big smile. It was thought at the time that that was a big hint that the E-P5 was going to come out with a built in VF.
Link?
Maybe the Olympus representative was being safe. A VF isn’t mutually exclusive but a built-in EVF is. You *can* use an EVF, but it’s an add on for the PEN.
And why does this and all other PENs not come with a built-in EVF? A built-in EVF the differentiation between the PEN and OMD. They want them to be allies in the market, not competition.
Of course, I’m talking digital here, not film.
And further to this, I’m not saying it’s right. Most people want an EVF. Maybe this is working against them.
If I remember correctly, it was “maybe, maybe not” Terada-san who was non-committal yet smiling when the topic of a Pen with EVF came up. I can’t take anything he says serious, because he’s always extremely vague and non-cmmittal, so much that I find him to be somewhere between comical and offensive.
The digital pen is supposed to be a take on the original pen. My pen ft is right in front of me, hey, guess what, it has a viewfinder. It’s also portrait mode as standard but we won’t go into that. When the pen came out I don’t remember Oly saying anything about integrated EVF being only for the OM-D which of course nobody had heard of.
The top of the range pen should have an integrated evf. It should reflect the Em5 in functionality as a different style.
“It should reflect the Em5 in functionality as a different style.”
I don’t think it’s very wise to have two camera line-ups, that only differs in terms of style. You have to differentiate them on features too, from a marketing stand-point.
The sensor is shared between PEN and OM-D, and the 5-axis IBIS appeared in the E-P5. So what feature remains to differentiate the two lines, besides the body style? Possibly the weather sealing, but the lower-end OM-D is rumoured to lack weather sealing, so I guess that’s not a distinguishing feature, either. That leaves us with the built-in EVF. I don’t think we’ll ever see a PEN with that feature.
sealing
Same insides different body styles. Nothing wrong with that. Car companies have been dooing it for years. Even competing shipping companies have used the same hull design and basic superstructure to create their own fleet ‘look’ with different style bridge positioning and funnel shape.
It works that’s why its done.
The original Pen film-based cameras had an optical viewfinder.
Still, what can you expect from a camera maker that prices the optical viewfinder than goes with the 17mm f/2.8 at US$99 by itself?
Actually, E-P1 is the first PEN that doesn’t have a viewfinder. So no excuses there Oly!
And 30% higher than, already expensive, E-P3 is simply ridiculous.
Yeah… well when I saw the word PEN I thought they were going to have a built in VF just like the original PEN. Had they done that they would be in the catbird seat.
Does not have anything to do with E P5 since it was introduced after the first quarter.
@anonymous
Was going to say the exact sane thing.
BTW
I feel that what was said is been often deliberately misquoted and used to distract at how much of a fail the Nikon 1 has been…
“I hope the new E-M1 will not share the same fate of the E-P5”
Most likely it will. For people that don’t own 4/3 lenses, the EM-5 is much better value. IQ is probably the same and it is still a current model. OTOH, I don’t think Oly expect to sell a million EM-1. It’s more a matter of prestige for the system and giving pros and former 4/3 users an option. They should be glad to still sell the great EM-5.
Pro’s will already have bought an EM-5.
Former 43’s users will no longer need a new body (otherwise they wouldn’t be FORMER 4’s users, they would just be 43’s users).
And it’s the 43’s users that the EM-1 fails to address. We haven’t already switched, and we are not Pro’s (see above – having $’s to spend and being well used to having multiple camera bodies, pro’s already have added to their bag an EM-5 and any MFT lenses they needed in addition to their 43’s bodies and glass)
The users left are those likely to be the mid-range SLR owners. E-XXX camera’s. The EM-1 is not one of those. Olympus don’t appear to be planning to offer one of those.
The EM-1 was designed at a time when MFT looked like it was going to replace SLR’s completely, except than at the pro end. But mirrorless sales have stalled compared to those expectations, whilst SLR sales have stayed fairly flat – i.e. continued, DESPITE the doomsayers predicting that mirrorless would see them off. Rather what seems to have happened is that mirrorless has become the go-to for people who want a better camera than their phone/point-and-shoot, but didn’t want an SLR. But – GASP – it turns out that there are still people who want SLR’s.
My guess is that if Olympus were designing the EM-1 *TODAY*, they would not have come up with an EM-5+, but rather an E7 for the pro’s and an E700 for the mid-range.
But 2 years ago they thought the SLR fight would be over. It isn’t, and now they are going to struggle to make the EM-1 make any sort of sense to anyone, especially at the price it is rumoured to be pitched at.
Such a shame. They had a chance, but they’ve blown it.
Agreed. I was an E-400 owner and now switched to m.4/3 as the OM-D and E-PL5 as a second body ticked all the boxes for size/weight and features/functionality.
Olympus were almost certainly on a budget during the financial crisis, but had they bought out a 4/3 body when the OM-D came out, I would have bought that just for my lenses.
However, and perhaps this is what they wanted, once the size and performance of the OM-D were apparent, I ditched all but my 9-18mm 4/3 lens and bought fully into m.4/3. A decision made easier by the fact I bought into 4/3 for the smaller size and I am now more earning more and can afford to do so.
I would guess there are not many Exxx owners out there now, and any that are would not be in the income bracket to switch; given it was an entry level product range. The E-M1 is for the people who have the HG and SHG glass and can afford/desire the best from those lenses; still not me, unfortunately!
However, it may be worth Olympus trying an E-xxx body if people are still hankering after DSLR cameras. I would guess, however, that the largest buyers of these are now CaNikon by force of habit and marketing.
I once saw a quote where somebody said ‘People who think about photography choose Olympus’. I think, as this was in an Olympus only forum, he/she meant consumers who buy Olympus/Panasonic/Pentax etc. have usually thought more about what camera they want than the average consumer who buys CaNikon. There seems to be some truth in that.
If flickr EXIF stats are anything to go by, there are far more E-XXX users active than there are E-X users.
The notion that “EM-1 is for pro’s wanting to use HG/SHG” makes no sense to me at all. Why are Olympus setting out to sell cameras to people who already have the lenses they want ? If, as well as their HG/SHG lenses, they also wanted m/43 lenses (which don’t need PDAF) they will already have bought an EM-5.
This is why this argument as a justification for an EM-1 makes no sense and why I think it far more likely that it was genuinely conceived as a top of the range m4/3 at a time when Olympus firmly believed they didn’t want or need an SLR. With mirrorless sales starting to tank, they are now scrabbling to find a way to sell it to the people who always only ever wanted a new SLR.
But they have positioned and priced it out of our reach.
The 43 group for whom PDAF makes sense is the group that contains people like me.
E-XXX owners who have built up a modest system over the years and who can’t afford or justify the cost involved in switching in one fell swoop. Ideally I would like to buy a m/43 mount E-700, on which I can continue to use my 43 lenses while take my time gradually replacing them with m4/3 equivalents.
Just think how much easier and less costly it would have been to simply modify the chassis of the E-620, E-30 and E-5 to accommodate the new 16MP sensor and 5-axis IBIS. They could have had a comprehensive line-up to offer this September:
EM-7 (i.e. what we have in the EM-1)
E7 (top of the line 43 system SLR)
E70 (pro-sumer SLR)
E700 (entry level SLR)
For the E-X/XX/XXX, whether they made the mount m4/3 or 4/3 only wouldn’t matter all that much to me, but if it was m4/3 then kit options would need to be available that included a m4/3 – 4/3 adapter.
As I said. They’ve blown it. 🙁
“Ideally I would like to buy a m/43 mount E-700, on which I can continue to use my 43 lenses while take my time gradually replacing them with m4/3 equivalents.”
While a m43 mount on a E-xxx would be possible, it would require all new lenses. It would not allow 4/3 glass because the lens would not fit the mount and 0 space adapter is not possible. Also with m43 glass the flange distance would be to big to work. That’s a bit of a problem for your idea.
The only alternative Oly had was two cameras or one m43 camera with an adapter for 4/3 glass. They opted for one camera.
If you wait a few months the E-M5 replacement will be out and it will have PDAF sensor enabled. It will be nearer the cost that an E-620 would be if made today.
“As I said. They’ve blown it. :(”
Personally I do not think that Oly cared about us, the E-XXX owners, really much. IIRC E-XXX were largely unsuccessful for Oly and IMO in larger part because they were always priced $50-150 above equivalent CaNikons. Street price might get to competitive level already within 3 months after release, but in people’s minds it was already cemented (and archived for posterity in the reviews): Oly is overpriced.
IMO the only sliver of hope for my 43 lenses is if the E-M1’s sensor would trickle down to E-PLx or E-PMx models. And only if Oly wouldn’t jack up their prices. Right now, street price of E-PM is around 400€ and E-PL – 500€. (But then, I’m not sure at all that the mount of the E-PM and E-PL would be made sturdy enough to support the heavier glass like 12-60 or PL25.)
I have no problem switching to an E-1 or E-5 or even a GH3-sized camera body with E-M5 internals, but what I saw in the video of the supposed E-M1 makes me question Olympus’ thinking–if any thinking was used.
Balancing the lenses can be difficult. I can’t use a tripod much of the time and it’s not even necessary with the E-5 + 35-100mm f/2.0. It can easily be used hand held.
There is nothing “pro” in the E-M1 or the E-M5. Even disregarding the diminutive size which makes controlling the cameras too hard (because of too few buttons placed too close), they fail at the basic “pro” stuff, such as extremely short battery life, no top LCD, SD cards and very slow write speed, EVF…
@anonymoose
The E-M1 is EXACTLY the right size for a working professional.Let me tell you something I do everything on camera (apart from tone curves which I will be able to do on the E-M1), I’m constantly changing numerous settings right until the second the shutter goes down ( look at my exif on flickr ). Mft users change their settings far far more often than DSLR users because we live in a WYSIWYG world.Top LCD isnt needed the screen flips out which is even better! I’m pretty sure the battery life will be excellent and pratical. SD are way better than flash cards( they don’t damage cameras, printers or readers), the write speed and evf will be fine for real working Pro’s…
Maybe one day you’ll buy a pro camera and understand some things – including why a camera like the Nikon D4 has three times the buttons, XQD card support and a built-in grip.
Since you obviously never had a pro camera or worked with one, I can understand your point of view, but it doesn’t make it any less wrong.
Buttons. knobs, dials and lights are put on a product so marketing managers have something to play with and boast about. They have no relationship to use in the real world.
Go to a tennis match, watch the photographers, now count how many push buttons other than the shutter and delete buttons which one can see them use frequently.
Go to a tennis match, give photographers mirrorless cameras and see them swap batteries every 20 minutes.
Buy better batteries and a grip. That’s whet they do.
@anonymous
most pro -nikon shooters are still using their D3’s says alot about the D4, doesn’t it?
Nikon 4
tilt and swivel LCD – nope
16:9 aspect ratio for images – nope
usable live view – nope
right amount of buttons for pratical use – nope
can use without grip – nope
game changer – nope
detailed review on dpreview – nope
built in image stabilization – nope
digital zoom – nope
autofocus across 100% of the frame – nope
Flash X sync speed 1/320 sec – nope
stereo microphone – nope
GPS built in – nope
-10 Celsius resistant – nope
comfortable shooting all day – nope
world class auto sensor cleaning – nope
buttons can be configured how a Pro would want – nope
switch for changing to C-AF – nope
XQD card slot – big fat joke
Substitute “D4” with “D3” or “1D” or even “E-5” if it tickles your fancy. It honestly doesn’t matter in this case.
“Pro” is about control and information. A few fiddly buttons and missing top/back LCD doesn’t give you that.
If you’d be in the market for classic cameras, you’d know how to instantly recognize most classic cameras used professionally. Many of them, especially those coming from news agencies, have most of their buttons glued to specific settings. Why? Because predictability reduces the number of unusable pictures, and preventing spending time on fiddling with camera settings increases the number of usable pictures.
A certain level of control is most definitely a good thing, but too many buttons and dials is actually counter productive.
more buttons more crap. more mistakes. most pros set it up and leave it. they can’t think as fast as the CPU. Match the sun going down fine yes.
@ciuis and @anonymoose
http://www.flickr.com/groups/nikon_d4_pros/discuss/ problems(various),support problems, should I buy, SanDisk Opts to avoid the XQD Format, D4 Going Back… and to be honest the images submitted to the group by it’s 990 members (O-MD user has 5,600+) could have easily be taken with the latest PENs or O-MD’s
I Agree that most of the shots would not have lost anything if taken with a current m43. Also notice how many use the so often discussed C-AF. Did you see any I missed?
…and as this article points out – no “pro” support
…whoops:
http://photofocus.com/2013/08/20/there-is-bad-news-for-micro-four-thirds-and-mirror-less-camera-shooters/
That too, but I didn’t want to mention it. I can get a loaner camera/lens, no questions asked, from Canikon, while my camera/lens goes for repairs and cleaning. With Olympus? Well screw you and wait a month, if you’re lucky.
@cuius
1. USA is now only 16% of the world camera market and continuing to decline.
2. Mirrorless cameras are far more reliable than DSLR dinosaurs.
For the price of a Canikon with ‘pro support’ you can typically buy 2 E-M5s, possibly 2 GH3s even. Advantage? You can have an ‘on the spot’ replacement with zero waiting time. Beats having to get to the service center for a loaner hands down. No matter how good the ‘pro support’ is, unless they have someone with a spare camera following you all the time, it will not help you at all while in the middle of that concert or wedding with a broken camera.
And Europe is a bigger market than the US. But many here don’t know that.
Time will tell how the EM-1 is received but never underestimate the sums hobbyists are willing to splash out to acquire their toys.
All the new features are no use (1/8000 sec, focus peaking, …) because once the next E-M6 is out (soon), it will have all those features plus an EVF, plus weatherproofing, and even better features like PDAF sensor, at about the same price. This E-P? line is squished too tight between the E-PL5 and the E-M?, and it should be dropped by Olympus, now that the OMD is here. No point.
Exactly. Why buy this when you can buy the E-M5 or its replacement the E-M7.
@anoymous 1 and 2
The E-M1 walks all over the E-M5 and will over it’s successor….
The E-M1 has an awesome feature set but the one thing that really matters to me and I guess many others is that bar a few processing tweaks it will have all but identical image quality to the E-P5/E-M5/E-PL5.
This is not a bad thing as I am delighted with my E-M5 and see no reason to buy into a more expensive machine that will in essence deliver the same RAW image quality,I know you are a pro shooter and will have a different outlook. I have the E-M5 along with the GH3 as also shoot a lot of video.I will not be upgrading till there is a significant step forward in RAW image quality which is excellent newS for my wallet :-). I am very happy with my lens set up 12-35,35-100,100-300mm,12mm ,17mm F1.8,25mm,60 macro and my much loved 75mm F1.8.The Panasonic 150mm F2.8 is the only lens I am interested in.mFT has developed at a fast pace giving me just about everything I need ,I am not a sport or bird shooter and have little use for C-AF/Tracking and the S-AF is spectacularly fast for my uses.
And you know this how?
Unfortunately, Olympus is totally committed to product differentiation through crippled features.
When everyone else puts in every possible feature to make the best available camera, Oly is still out there, sitting on their hands, refusing to step up to the plate and offer what they have at a competitive price.
Let me say this direct to Olympus: You have great Jpeg images. You have terrific features like 5-axis image stabilization. You could be dominating the market. However, few people like dealing with a stingy company that refuses to put what they have on the table at a reasonably competitive price.
So, Olympus, you are going to keep your marbles all to yourself. Fewer and fewer people want to play your game. And, that is such a shame. Your cameras are the best–the very best.
Go back to your E620, as a model of included features, with the viewfinder and articulated screen, and put in the newest sensor with the fantastic 5-axis image stabilization, and put it on the market for a price people will notice for its accessibility. Oly, you almost had it perfect with the EM-5. But you believed all the hype you put out there, and decided to price it too high.
Then you can crow again about your quality and style and magnificent cameras. Then you can worry about production problems in getting them out fast enough. That’s the kind of problem you need. Lost sales through deliberately crippled features and overpriced cameras are a fools’ game. The more people using your cameras, the more who will want to use them. The converse is also true: The more people using competitors’ cameras, the more people who will want to use them. You are creating your own insignificance. Oly, you better hustle, because the game is changing.
You said it!! idk whats going on over there at Olympus but its run by Retards!
Right on!
+1
exactly. you can’t sell at a premium until you’ve earned the reputation. if you’re a minority, a smaller profit margin will build your market for a future increase in profit margin.
+1000
agreed, the problem with oly is product differentiation.
Totally agree.
“Olympus is totally committed to product differentiation through crippled features…”
I’ve been using Olympus since the E-520, recently sold my E-M5.
Was very upset that focus peaking was never added.
If the EP5 can do it, so can the EM5, is not a hardware issue, is some kind of retarded marketing.
Looking forward to the GX7, which I have in pre-order.
Good thing about m4/3, we have to manufacturers to chose from.
I think Panasonic has listened, so my hard earn money goes to them.
You are joking right? Are you aware that focus peaking is patented by Sony? The e-p5 can do it because now Sony owns Olympus, which was not the case when the e-m5 came out.
nobody owns focus peaking, friend. Focus peaking has existed for years and years on high end video cameras before sony decided to use it on their nex models. Its also on fuji x bodies and on the panasonic af100, the G6 and GX7. Moreover, any contrast detect based camera can do focus peaking.
It’s not some kind of high-tech feature you know.
Sony does not own Olympus, Sony owns a significant minority of the shares.
You’re really clueless, aren’t you? Sony owns about 10% of the Olympus shares, IIRC, but they don’t own the whole company.
And please post a link to the Sony focus peaking patent. It’s ridiculous to claim that Olympus couldn’t use peaking before Sony invested in the company, because Pentax, Ricoh, Fuji and Panasonic all have focus peaking in some of their cameras. To claim that anyone owns the patent for focus peaking, is just as absurd as to claim that anyone owns the patent for digital effects filters like “toy camera” or “pop art”.
Please email that statement to them. Maybe there’s a chance it’ll make it somewhat high in their chain of command.
@flowerbug
What a load of crud.
BTW
I own a E620 too.
“Go back to your E620 […]”
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!1!!!
Please be it “Go back to E-510, add swivel screen to it […]”
E-6xx and E-4xx have pathetic ergonomics and highly unusable with larger lenses. 70-300 and 14-54 are somewhat OK since they are lighter, but 12-60 or PL25 or Sigma30mm are PITA on E-6xx/E-4xx bodies.
E-5xx bodies had much much better ergonomics.
Don’t think it’s the price only, the canera market is saturated someday, people would maybe buy if there is a revolution comming and not a evolution.
On the other hand Quality does not have many lovers anymore, people check numbers: price, iso blabla.
I bought a cheap Nikon V1 recently and the incredible 32 1.2 lens this lens produces magic, but you cannot see this in numbers, so people complain the price and compare with cheap lenses like the Nikkor 35 1.4 and i am sure, that most of them are really not able to see the difference, for them the mobilephone will fit best.
The masses do not want quality
“More or less they all say the same. It is a very good camera but the price and the competition are the main problems Olympus has to face.”
Olympus’ latest prices are out of touch with consumers’ expectations and the market conditions, and especially not seen as reasonable value.
Another example of this is is the 17mm f/1.8 lens, which is always widely condemned for its unreasonable price especially given its so-so quality (Lenstip and Photozone).
All they need to do is release a limited edition pink model and sell it for $150 more, it will sell like crazy with matching lenses. They lost me with their color extortion marketing.
The OMD-EM5 is the only thing they have an i want to see if you totally destroy that
Sorry meant 35 1.8 as the cheap Nikkor
Seven reviews saying essentially the same thing, but will Olympus listen?
Thousands have complained about not getting a lens hood, but will they listen?
How come now one complains when Canon doesn’t give lens hood/pouch
because they dont retail for 70$ if you want one
Nope, but $30 for the little plastic hood for the 18-55 kit lens is still ridiculous, especially when you can get a clone for $3, for that matter, I recently bought a 18-55 IS for less then the list price of that hood.
The only thing holding me back from buying the E-P5 is a poor video codec, something that could probably be fixed in software. An electronic shutter would be a nice added feature, for times when stealth or reduced shutter slap is needed.
“poor video codec, something that could probably be fixed in software”
Well, probably it could, but it won’t! Unless somebody hacks it.
Price sure matters, doubt most people buying milc’s check in detail difference between for example nex. And when you can buy a nex-6 kit with 2 lenses for only 80.000yen and put beside it e-p5 kit with vf4 and one kit lens which cost more than 100.000yen. Looks difficult to make big sales.
The waiting game hurts. End of last year I was unsure if I should get the PL5 or P5. I would have bought the P5 if it would have been available with in 1 months or so, but not so many months later. PM, PL, P are just too many models. They should just sell the P for the price of the PL and the OM-D/E-M.
GX 7 proved the EP5 could have had an in body EVF. A missed opportunity. Oly needs to drop the “we must leave something out” philosophy.
Olympus needs 4 cameras. Two in the pen line and two in the OM-D line. The OM-D staying much as it is now with the E-M1 and E-M5 keeping the styles different. The Pen series needs a top body virtually an E-M5 in the cyrrent style with an IBEVF, and a smaller mini version.
I would also like to see one of the cameras offered with a high resolution sensor with very dense pixel count tuned to resolution maybe 20-24MB. Then a very high ISO version with enlarged photosites and electronics matched for high SNR, maybe even 10MB on the pixel count.
+100!!!!!!!
Gee… no one wants to buy an overpriced camera. Who would have thought?
For me it’s the grip and the external viewfinder at a time when Pana came up with a largely similar camera that is better in these two aspects. Beautiful camera though. But I’ll pass and get the GX7 instead.
It’s not the price holding me back. It’s the feeling that Olympus are not maximizing the value in their cameras. Look at the ridiculous grip on that thing. Every time I see the clip-on evf on top of the ep5 I laugh. Their video standards are becoming a joke. Simple things like GPS, in-body panorama and HDR. iPhone? Got them. $1000 “pro” CSC? Nope.
And yes while I am at it, the amateur approach to lens accessories is a put off too.
Ibis and jpeg. That’s what they have going for them. And they have sold them off.
They have to lift their game.
spot on
they keep on beating the dead ibis horse
Agreed. If my smartphone can have these features for essentially free, how come a pricey prosumer camera does not?
I will try to explain this again. The first quarter ended March 30. The E P5 was not announced until May and not really available until June. Since it was available for only one month in the second quarter, those results will not have any real implication for E P5 sales. The results for quarter three beginning July 1 will better indicate E P5 sales, since the E M1 will almost certainly not ship before quarter four.
@anonymous
What you said 🙂
The sad thing is that, I believe, it is still about the difference in price between a photo oriented smart phone, and a ‘real’ camera. It is simply too much.
If I were a young aspiring image provider I would start today with a smart phone and a social network, plus attendant apps, and bugger all.
That is what declining sales figures for all ILC say, IMHO.
Oly has further a big problem with its ROI, it must answer to banks. So it is trying desperately to climb the value chain, but in so doing it is pricing itself out. Small companies are between a rock and a hard place, compared to companies ten times as big. They cannot do price dumping and stay profitable, and some here would have it.
The ep3 upon initial release in Australia wasn’t much less but the truth is that the market has changed a little as well as peoples expectations of what they should be paying.
Olympus comes out with an ep3 successor and thinking they’ll just do the same thing except this time Sony and Fuji have excellent alternatives which were selling at a cheaper price with a built in viewfinders!??….The ep5 found itself in the predicament of a luxury item that had so much potential but due to the aforementioned factors would be held back from realising it’s market potential.
Despite what some say, other than price Olympus done well with the em1 if it delivers what claimed but the ep5 whilst being an excellent camera came at a time were the market expectation had moved on to something like a gx7, x-e1 or nex6 for that asking price price and this is why competition is good.
Olympus would be wise to drop the price of the ep5 to $799 and make the em1 price a little cheaper than $1500 and this may help salvage a situation, albeit into one with a little less profit but with momentum.
I’ll be purchasing the em1 as I have 43 and m43 lenses but the ep5 I’ll skip.
If the ep5 had an evf I believe it would’ve replaced my ep3 but that ship for me has sailed now.
The Ep5 is an excellent camera with so much going for it but it could’ve been a classic.
The ep7 may just end up being yhe rf styled camera to end all!
E-M1 will share the same fate as E-P5.
Oly should make a bundle with VF 4 without lens for 999 euro
@Goldorak
100% agree!
Sell ep5 for $799 body only or 999 with vf4 and the perception may radically change to an acceptably priced camera that gives us the optiin to remove the evf if we want etc….
+1.
Instead you have to buy the kit for $1450 and sell off the 17mm to get close to that price. Stupid.
They’re greedy over-pricing and stingy approach to basics like add-on EVF’s ($300), lens hoods ($70), 2 part battery grips ($300) and even batteries ($60!) are coming full circle on them now. Serves them right, no pity here.
Still, you’re stuck with big, bulky, ugly lump of black plastic on top of a fairly good looking camera.
I handled an EP5 today at B&H for the first time. It’s okay, but it’s SO much better feeling than the EM5!
Olympus really needs to hire a few designers who understand ergonomics instead of fashion.
The funny thing is that price is something that Olympus can adjust? If that is the failing issue with your product. Simply adjust the price! You would think that they could suss that out? The spec list is good, as is the performance. Simply price it to sell …
1 word : overpriced.
OLYMPUS / PANASONIC / SONY /CANON
Unless you decide to be bold and produce
a 4K (video and stills) MFT camera with dedicated audio inputs and
controls, with dual SD/CF slots and image stabilization and Raw and
compressed recording options you will be behind the curve and simply
trying to maintain your market share.
THE FIRST COMPANY TO SHATTER THIS CONSENSUS WILL MAKE A HUGE
MARKET IMAPACT.
BLACKMAGIC IS CLOSE IF THEY OFFER THE NEW APTINA 14MP 4K SENSOR
ON A 4K MFT CAMERA THEY WILL TURN THE INDUSTRY ON ITS HEAD.
@ThomasH
Its the very end consumers that turn the video world on it’s head. And it’s my feeling that 4k doesn’t do it for them just like blu-ray and 3D
Blu-ray is great. A huge improvement over DVD!
The problem are the shitty Hollywood movies that are released in the format. Criterion Collection is releasing some, but not their entire catalogue, unfortunately.
well, not really. Think about it. First, 4k is about 12.7 mp only so in the stills side of things its kind of a step back. Second, 4k is one of those things people **think** they need, buy really dont. GH cameras already are too sharp right off the bat and who sells a consumer 4k monitor anyway? where are we gonna watch all that 4k footage? what card is gonna handle 12.7 mp stills at 24 fps?
Panasonic instead should concentrate on their already above the rest video codec but find a way to expand dynamic range and color bits. Even 10 bits would be a huge jump. Olympus has some serious product lineup to reconsider. And also find a way to trim some of the price. If they do that they have a firm hold on their user base with beautiful well built cameras that are feature rich.
Other than that we all need to understand that the way m43s is going is a good thing, we’re getting very high end stuff for less money than you would have to pay in other formats with the same feature set. The glass and attention from third parties we’re getting is just fantastic, lenses are sharp wide open despite the laws of phisycs and the sensor tech is advancing way faster in this size than any other.
You have to look at the big picture here and not at one model announcement, what micro 43s needs is to keep moving forward and upwards like they are currently doing
Maybe Sony will buy out Olympus’ camera business and make the brand go away just like they did to Minolta. Then we won’t need useless blog posts like this anymore.
Sadly, it will only get worse here, UNLESS:
-Sony buys Olympus camera division, then closes it and uses Oly-Tech for its own NEX line.
-This, in turn will leave Panasonic as the sole, OR primary MFT manufacturer.
-Panasonic holds onto MFT, while also teaming up with Fuji and makes a APS-C mirrorless, DSLR to challenge Canon/Nikon.
I think the sweet spot is a G6 shaped mirroless DSLR with the size of a Canon Rebel. I think that camera will rule.
-G6 shape
-weather proof
-wifi/gps
-fujifilm filters
-fuji/panasonic sensor
-panasonic ibis/ois
-lenses with aperture ring
-panasonic/leica/fuji lens
-3 bodies, 3 different price ranges: panasonic (low tier) fuji (middle tier) leica (high tier)
A man can only dream….
“A man can only dream….”
Or a man can shoot with current equipment he has got, right? 🙂 The E-M5 is good enough.
Another quarter of shitty earnings from their camera division and just maybe Olympus will wake up and have a real sale. Everything should be marked down 20%. The EM-1 at $1500 is not going to help their bottom line one iota.
People are so smart here!
If PEN sells well, they will say the line-up is great!
If PEN sells badly, they will say otherwise.
Olympus is the first to put an EVF in a small body, i.e. the E-M5, not the Panasonic GX7. And E-M5 sells really well, even today.
Stop talking stupid men!
Stupidity or trolls or both 🙁
You are not looking at the issue.Many think the pen should have an integrated EVF. Panasonic with the GX7 have proven one will fit, an argument put up by many was that one would not fit. I would like one in the E-P6 or next pen. For the smaller, fit in the pocket, the mini can be without. Its just some like the slr look and feel some like the RF look. The E-P5 and the E=M5 should have similar functionality in different forms
you seem to have missed the G series – which has a built in EVF since the beginning.
The G3 in particular is very small. If anything, EM5 was oly’s answer to Pana’s G series.
Would consider the Pen if it had a built-in viewfinder…as it does not (and I dislike the hump on the OM-D), I’ll be looking only at the GX7. Too bad, as the E-P5 is an excellent camera.
The article referenced has nothing to do with E-P5. The first fiscal quarter ended long before the E-P5 debut, the blog author needs to improve his/her English, as these statements could be interpreted as defamatory.
Nobody knows how the E-P5 is selling except Olympus, and they won’t tell you until next fiscal quarter.
A quick look at Amazon Best Sellers in Compact System Cameras now for new m43 models:
No 4: E-P5
No.7: E-M5
No.8: G6
No.16: E-PL5
No.18: GX7
No.20: E-M5 again
And you guys actually think that Panasonic is doing better?
Those rankings change daily. A week and a half ago the GX7 was #1. Amazon sales rankings are not a true test of sales figures.
Sure, when GX7 is new and hot! But it is now!
Well, GX7 is not selling exactly well as many of here claimed. Yes, it is not available yet. But then, make comments only when it is available with supporting figures.
GX7 is only available fro pre-order. Wait until it can be actually bought. It’s quite amazing that gx7 even made that far just with pre-orders
Didn’t I say that already???
The GX7 hasn’t been released yet.
It’s not even due to ship for another month, at least.
Looking at the B&H web site, the Lumix GH3 is #5, and the GX7 is #6 in their mirrorless rankings. The fire sale on the various EOS-M models have them taking the most of the top spots, remove those from the equation and the Sony NEX-6 is the only thing selling better than the GH3 and GX7 at B&H.
The E-P5 with VF-4 and 17mm bundle is at #19 on B&H, which ain’t bad. Doesn’t surprise me at all that the bundle is selling far better than the body-only E-P5, as the bundle is the only way to get any sort of value out of the camera.
The E-P5 bundle is selling a lot better on Amazon.com for some reason, but then Amazon does NOT include the GH3 as a mirrorless system camera….they put it in the DSLR section! And while the E-P5 is at #5 currently, the E-PL5 is at #6, and the Pentax Q is at #9, which tells you a lot about Amazon.com buyers…
But again, it’s the BUNDLE that’s selling, not the E-P5 bodies. And the only reason that is is due to simple math: VF-4 ($280) + 17mm ($500) + E-P5 ($1000) would be $1780 if bought separately….so people perceive, correctly, that the bundle at $1450 is a better value.
While the big, fat price tag on the E-P5 is way beyond what I’m willing to pay, I do hope it’s a good seller for Olympus….so I can buy one at $250 on Amazon.com when they come out with the E-P6 in a year. 🙂
– Olympius
@anonymous
In the UK amazon has less than 5% of market share for the sale of online electrical goods while Dixon’s has 21%. Also amazon top lists are worthless in every sector they operate in.
If 2 bits of silica gel are put in the box its a different camera. Thats nuts. the listing should be by body sales and also disregard colours. There are just not 20 mirrorless cameras on the market.
Admin, while I think the Pen5 will have selling challenges through price, I do not think that’s what Olympus said specifically about the Pen5- but it was about the Pen line in general. Given the Pen5 just came out, I do not think there’s the data to conclude (by them or anyone categorically) that it didn’t sell, though it seems poised for such outcome.
I agree we know nothing about the E-P5 yet (despite the headline), but I would not be surprised that a) given the rave reviews and b) the cyclic nature of things, the Q2-Q4 reports will be better. Still, mirrorless is down in general, so if it performs well relatively, Olympus did ok.
1) I’ve already got two FT cameras and one mFT camera, all of which work quite well.
2) It’s expensive, particularly if you include the add-ons.
3) More importantly, the camera that will be the OM-D E-M1 was visible on the horizon, and that model will add the ability for improved operation with my existing FT lenses. I was waiting for that and the ever-improving Wi-Fi capabilities means that model will fit my needs better than the EP-5.
I’ve got too many film and digital cameras and lenses as it is, I have to restrain my impulses 🙂
Olympus…look at the Panasonic GX7. Integrated VF can be done. If the E-P5 had a integrated VF like the GX7, I’d be all over it. But now I’m looking at the Panasonic GX7 since it’s $279 less with and integrated EVF. Listen to your customers!!!!
Olympus has done it with E-M5 long ago! And E-M5 is selling well even now!
E-M5 is not rangefinder style. It is an inch taller than it should be.
Hmm! I wonder if we are all looking at the same information. Let me see. The global compact cameras market shipments is down 48%. The global market for mirrorless is down 18.5%. Olympus PEN LINE, not the EP5 as implied in the headline, but the line, is down by 12%. So the PEN market is down relative to past years but is still 6% ahead of the global market. As to the EP5 which has been selling for what, 2 months? We have no hard reliable data to determine if it is selling well or not yet. Give it 90-120 days before you try to measure its impact.
Now in the Japanese market mirrorless is up 16.9%. Also in the Chinese market, mirrorless is trending upward. Note that Nikon didn’t say the market was for them was going down in China, rather that “growth” was less then they expected for the time frame. So they need to make an adjustment on their projections for china and in other regions and emerging markets. Quite normal really, considering the current fluctuations and volatility of all global markets. Also note that at no time have Nikon or Olympus, or as far as I have read so far, any other major camera company forecast losses. In fact Nikon while cutting their forecast through March 2014 is still projected to see an overall increase of 27%. It is only the forecasts that were lowered, and a large part of that is adjustments in their mirrorless market due to “slower then expected growth”.
Now there are many other economic factors here, such as a boom in the US housing markets that has people investing more in home and property and less in other “luxury” commodities like cameras, along with other variable factors in other economies.
The sky is not falling, and the world is not ending. Mirrorless growth is slowed for a time (these things do go in cycles and you can’t base the future on a single 1 year change much less one or two quarters of change) but only slowed globally while some specific markets are growing, though not as fast as they hoped. Nobody has lost money, they are all making money, only the overall profits are less then expected.
And for the Oly EP5, give it 120 days of sales before you even try to judge its success or failure.
Indeed. The headline is simply without foundation. The 12% is first quarter, the E-P5 was announced in May!
So while “it is not selling well (says Olympus)” is dramatic, it is simply not fact, alas. We will have to wait. Preferably for bigger movements than jus quarterly trends, which can make you rather shortsighted, I hear.
Admin is making news with old papers… NYT article is from August 8, 2013 and we already commented it out here days ago…
I know that making the buzz and page hits helps making money, but flame wars that invevitably come with such articles aren’t good for 43rumors reputation…
if you think I am doing this for pure flame purpose than you shouldn’t be here. Really. The E-P5 is too expensive stop. And that is soemthing Olympus has to understand if they want to sell that great camera.
I’m just saying that the way headlines and articles are written tends to create flame wars.
As many pointed it, the 12% fall of the pen line below Olympus’ expectation was for the 1st semester, and EP-5 wasn’t released yet. You just can’t say that this 12% fall is related to the overpriced EP-5.
Now, we can debate on Olympus’s marketing strategy, and ask if aiming at a fashion premium niche with high priced products is a smart move or not. The fact that we think something is overpriced doesn’t mean it actually is overpriced 😉
Don’t take it bad, I know you’re doing a tough job running this site, and I really enjoy the recent move toward “real life reviews” like the one from André Arthur. It gives a real “serious touch” to the site and IMO greatly raises the level of comments.
Thanks for being open to discussion tough 😉
you are right – EP5 is too expensive and this will hurt it’s sales – perhaps do a poll about it – focused strictly on price?
will I buy EP5 at it’s current pricing? NO
would I buy EP5 at 3/4 of its pricing? YES
its the camera I want, I can forgive the lack of built in EVF, even with the GX7 out – but I cannot excuse the extortionist pricing.
One can look at sales graphs all day but not come to the proper conclusion.
People that didn’t get the EM5 were waiting for the same features in PEN form factor and lower pricing. It’s here now with the EP5 but the price went up rather than down.
EVF in the body could have justified the (body only) price. But as is – it’s just not going to fly.
Pure flame purpose: I don’t think so. Regardless, the people here must decide for themselves how well they’ll behave.
Regardless, thanks for changing the headline! 🙂
Oly should be making it a GX7 competitor, with a corner mounted EVF. The current E-P5 looks like a rip-off in comparison.
I hope E-M1 shares the characteristic of being very very cheap in 1-2 years.
I don’t get why these mirrorless cameras have to cost so much anyway. They don’t have an expensive mirror or prism assembly. In the case of m4/3s, the sensors are small enough to have high manufacturing yields and low cost. We’re not talking FF sensor cost here. The internal electronics are not that expensive.
Now there are some R & D costs, but in the case of the EP-5, much of the tech is taken from the OMD EM5 and thus these costs have already been absorbed.
My prediction is that there will be substantial price drops by the end of the year, for the holidays, and that Olympus will still make a nice profit per camera at the lower price.
In fact that’s why we can see fire sale prices on earlier m4/3 cams, the Nikon 1 series, the Canon M…because they don’t cost that much to make, and the manufacturers are still making money. I think the manufacturers must just go for sky high profit when they release these models initially.
@one more thought
The biggest lie peddled is how much “full frame” sensors cost, they are not as expensive as people make out. DSLR r&d has long been paid and apparently DSLRs have the volume, so what gives…..
What I hear, FF sensors are expensive because of total volume and silion wafer sizes. However, I agree that from where we as consumers stand, it’s hard to decide how quickly Olympus should try to recoup their R&D efforts.
Olympus and Panasonic both have poor marketing, at least to the US market. I have yet to see any Micro Four Thirds commercials. Also, they need to picks one —> MFT, Micro 4/3, Micro Four Thirds, M43, m4/3 — standardize it and market it that way.
Panasonic needs to stop using the phrase “compact system camera” as many consumers don’t know what that means. It sounds very ‘point and shoot’ ish and isn’t good for those consumers who are trying to step up and away from point and shoot. DSLM is a much better alternative that Olympus needs to adopt and both need to market more.
I agree…in the US there is virtually no attempt to educate the public on these new mirrorless alternatives, and so Canon and Nikon clean up with their DSLR sales. Also it’s tough to even find good m4/3 cameras in most big box retailers, and so people can’t even hold one or try it out.
It’s very difficult to change the perception and buying habits of the general public…at this point I think it would take something like Apple releasing a mirrorless camera to get people’s attention and really shake things up, and I don’t think that’s going to happen.
Also, both Panny’s and Oly’s prices for camera bodies are about 10% too high.
I love my E-P5. too many poor people out there.
“too many poor people out there.”
True story: I was at the Del Mar races this past weekend. I had a pocket full of cash — upwards of $1800 — and wasn’t even betting for real money. I wanted to have some beer, but the first 2 I bought were $9.50 a piece, for 12-ounces of crappy Coors light.
I could have kept buying beer — after all, I was there for 6 hours. But instead I switched to bottled water.
You see, the reason I have money is that I’m not a sucker. Anyone who pays retail for an EP5 is letting Olympus piss on them while telling them it’s raining. It’s priced for suckers.
Congratulations on having just enough cash on hand to get bent over by Oly and then thank them for the reaming. It’s suckers like you that supplement the excellent aftermarket for the rest of us, and we laugh at you for it.
Also, the I can pretty much guarantee that my EPL2 pics are superior to your EP5 ones, because I’m also smart enough to know that cameras specs don’t make pictures — photographers do.
Bottled water! Bet your dentist loooovvves you.
Maybe OLY will finally listen to their fan base. “Put an internal viewfinder on the PEN you morons”.
“Olympus said that its sales of its signature mirrorless model, the PEN, had fallen 12 percent in the first quarter”
Note that this comment says nothing about overall Olympus sales.
I think that PEN sales have suffered because the target market has been buying OM-D E-M5 cameras and $200 GX1 cameras instead of PENs.
As a comparison, I can get the new Canon D70 with kit lens for 1349 US dollars. For the EP5 kit I pay $1449.
So for $100 less I can get a DSLR with optical viewfinder, a significantly larger sensor, and a brand name that most people know and trust more for photographic equipment (whether that is merited or not). I also get access to the huge and impressive range of Canon lenses.
Now granted I sacrifice size and weight, but most consumers will still go for the Canon any day. Plus in the US you will get to hold and try out the Canon in many retailers, like Best Buy, etc…but not so for the EP5. Most consumers won’t even be aware of the EP5…and they will walk into a Best Buy, say they want something more than a P&S, and the sales person will say, look at what I have for you…this great new Canon with the cool new tech. For those who may find out a little about the EP5, they will see a smaller camera and automatically think the DSLR is superior…and that’s what they are after anyway, a more serious camera.
Oly has a big mountain to climb; if I were them I would price very aggressively.
If my recent observations are true, most of those DSLRs are being hauled around in baby strollers, so size/weight might not be as much of a selling point as one would have guessed.
+1000
Panasonic & Olympus really need to get into these major chain electronics stores like Best Buy, Future Shop, TigerDirect, etc. These stores are very mainstream and are the #1 way that consumers find out about new electronics. With Micro Four Thirds only being found in select camera stores and only online, there is no way they will succeed in getting even close to Canikon in the long run.
Did you know that the canon sensor is just a tiny 1.8mm taller than the m43. And that’s assuming canon lets you use all the vertical pixels available. For that measly 1.8mm you get to carry round a ton of weight and still can’t match m43 quality, controls and functionality.
No question it’s a good camera but as everybody has been saying it’s overpriced, it’s $999 WITHOUT a VF.
The GX7 body cost that but WITH a EVF, the X-E1 is $799 WITH an EVF, the NEX-6 is about $650 and only the NEX-7 cost more but it also has an EVF.
It’s like Olympus is charging just like Nikon and Canon did when they overpriced their mirrorless cameras and after a while they said – surprisingly – that they weren’t selling well! C’mon!
Olympus already has the excellent E-M5 if you want EVF. Besides, the EVF on E-P5 is amazing, with view as big as 1Dx viewfinder. Squeezing that big EVF together with 5-Axis module will increase its size.
Yeah, it is expensive, but E-Px form over function design are not known to be value for money.
Olympus and Panasonic have failed miserably when it comes to advertising. Most people do not understand these cameras. They need to be advertised as a “wolf in sheeps clothing.” An SLR in a smaller and lighter package. If they don’t get this message across it will remain a niche product.
Also, I think they need less models, and all models need a view finder.
So say today $100 of the purchase price goes to providing fully metal bodies to the lenses and cameras.
You’d rather have Olympus make crappy plastic camera and lenses and those $100 be invested in marketing like Nikon and Canon?
Because they don’t slrs. are way more powerful this toy cameras can produce decent image for face book and things like that pros use 35mm up cameras .the ep5 is way better photo camera than the gx7 that’s a fact. Olympus make better cameras. Pannasoshut just make camcorders
very well founded comment. the grammar and punctuation are also spot on. The best part is the logic of it all. First what do you do with your slr that I cant do with m43s? second how is the ep5 a better photographic machine? do you think its 35mm? lastly, what grade are you in?
NO BUY unless they learn.
I would buy the EP5 over the GX7 IF it had better video Codecs and better WIFI I never would have thought WFI would be such a usefully thing until I got the GH3. I shoot as much stills as i do video so both are important to me. to be honest for 80% of my work the EP5’s video would be good enough, but its the other 20% of my video work that makes the majority of my money. I prefer the detachable EVF on the EP5 verses the GX7. I can see the EVF on the GX7 being broke or getting loose fast because of how very far it sticks out from the camera and atleast the EP5 has a optional mic input. I am not a Olympus fan boy I own and use the GH1, GH3 and multi Canons.
I was hoping to add some Olympus camera’s for the IBIS. if the EP5 had better video codecs I would buy 3 and ditch my Canons and the Tamron VC lenses. I am still holding out hope for the new OMD EM1 that said I still might buy a few EP5’s if it was 999 including EVF
I am like you, with heavy use, the GX7’s hinge and protrusion aspects is what I suspect fails first on this model. It’s open seams of both flash popup and hinge EVF are just going to get dirt, sand, moisture etc. This are tiny complaints, but often, it’s the nuance that sells a tool for your application.
The eP5’s specs similarly fit my checklist, and I suspect the video ability is more than I ever need. I see the removable EVF as useful, (just as I see removable grips on the eM5 as nice photographers features.) The current price kills any desire to be a first adapter. And the price what it is now is as bad as some squeal on about; if I really needed the camera, I’d purchase it now. [I’ve recently sold off one mFT body, but would need to get rid of two more] to justify paying new product street price on any of new mFT models [not just the eP5.]
The word compact has dire connotations in the US. The era of the ‘compact” car brought big problems in marketing and sales particularly for Japanese cars (Nissan, Toyota et all) that did not fit into the niche or exotic categories as many European cars did (BMW, Jag, mini, Citroen, Fiat and others).
It took 20 to 30 years for the 4 cylinder ‘compact’ to change into the ‘small’ category car that is today so accepted (and alliances between Japanese manufacturers and US car subsidiaries). But the word compact is still tarred with the illusion of being not quite all there.
The first time I saw 4/3 cameras referred to as compact was in a derogatory way by US users of 135 sensor cameras. It was intended to be derogatory as the cars were, again to imply that they are not all there.
Remove the word compact and sales in the US will start to increase. If every one refuses to acknowledge the word compact when referring to mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, even to the extent of articles with the word compact in them, the name will soon disappear and sales will improve.
Oly and pany need to work on this with Kodak, Sony, Fuji and Samsung.
Why moderation?
Exactly, I do everything in excess! 😛
Our funny web site.
I put up a post and it went to moderation however my comment to my moderated self was put up. Strange things happen.
It was a comment on the word compact and relating it to the acceptance and connotation attached to compact relating to cars in the late 60s and 70s. Maybe admin bought a compact car.
Agree with the excess though. Why half do something. Especially if its something you like, or your told is not good for you. Chemicals and grog don’t seem to have bothered Jagger and the Stones. Though one did fall by the wayside, must have been over exertion with the exercise.
I would buy the camera in the EU if the price was the same as in the US. Unfortunately here everything is the same, but in euros. This means that we are paying about 30% more for the same product.
I am not a professional photographer, so for this reason I don’t have to have the latest/greatest tech.
I usually wait until the prices drop to a more realistic level and make the purchase then.
I just checked, I could get the E-P5 body only is 1050,- EUR. No lens, no viewfinder. Just the body.
The EP5 and the EM5 are not in competition, so stop comparing their prices. If you are genuinely going to buy whichever one is cheapest, then you don’t know what you want. Except cheapness, ha ha. If you are refusing to buy the one you want because it is not cheapest, then you have just cut off your nose to spite your face.
Anyway, buy it with the 35/1.8 and you get the VF4 for free, right?
As for the Panasonic GX7, it is clearly an inferior stills camera IMHO. People comparing spec-sheets and feature-lists don’t take account of how well the feature works. The GX7 and the EP5+VF4 both have an EVF, but one works wonderfully (VF4) and one not so good (GX7) or not at all (GX7 with eyeglass-wearing owners).
Any it’s not selling? That’s because we are not stupid!
Only and Pant PMs think they can charge very high and over time lower the price and thereby pocket the entire consumer surplus but folks with enough disposable income aren’t fools. Apple made that mistake but quickly lowered the price and even refunded early adopters. Sigma did the same. Given there are so many substitutes they should lower the markup. There’s a price to move everything.
If a company constantly refuses to put the most wanted feature in its camera line: the integrated view finder, there should not be any surprise that one time its customers will note this and stop buying its products. They become tired of waiting, especially if the competitor announces an interesting alternative with exact this feature, the people want.
After the huge success of the E-M5, I am surprised that Olympus lost its feel for the market. I don’t think that both, E-P5 and E-M1, will have huge success. The E-P5 due to the lack of its most missing feature, and the E-M1 because its design does not appeal. Both of them are too pricey.
If the two flagships of Olympus will fail, the company might get in real trouble as they did finally with 4/3. I hope it will not damage m4/3 as a whole.
Olympus needs to come quickly out with a E-M5 successor and maintain E-M5 sales with modernizing this camera with feature updates via firmware in the meanwhile to avoid fluctuation of customers to the competition.
Being an Oly using from the 1980s/90s I can remember Oly messing with prices back then. Right before Olympus quit the film SLR business (their latest model was the OM3Ti I think, coming out after the OM4Ti?) … Olympus decided it wanted to have a Leica-like price structure. And overnight pretty much doubled the price of everything!
I think their 50/1.4 went from £250 to £450 – overnight, no change in tech, no change in design – the very same stuff just new prices.
I think it was about 6-7 months later that they just stopped SLR/lens production.
While the OMD EM5 is still probably the best value high end m43 camera – being in EVF, 5-axis, that amazing 16mp sensor … and all for a bit less than the GX7 and a chunk less than the EP5 (no comment EM1). They are kind of stuck. If they discontinue the EM5 they are screwed, if they try their 80s tactic of just putting the price back up they are screwed.
Leica is Leica – it has an amazing (ly odd!) brand following, they can charge what they like, the do, and they get it. In low volume. Olympus is not Oly no matter how many times they try.
Give the 7x people on the planet that bough a black 12/2 a refund back to silver price. Make the black one standard production and level the prices.
Olympus with their IBIS was the goto place for an m43 body and the EMP2 EMPL5 are super value for money but perhaps they should concentrate down there for some volume sales AND drop the price of the EP5 (perhaps they don’t need to go as far as Panasonic discounts level).
While the Fuji x100s is still a chunk more than EPM2/EPL5 price, the Coolpix A has now dropped 25% to get nearer the Ricoh. And the Richo GR (with DX sensor) is now a challenger for m43. Not to mention the Fuji X-E1 with its select lenses and a body with EVF at £629!
Panasonic has ‘reacted’ (okay, unfair, maybe not reacted – caught up) with the GX7 but why does it cost more than the X-E1?
– Fuji X-E1 = £629 body
– Pan GX7 = £819 body <<<< is the 2-axis-IBIS unit really costing £190?
Okay that is street price vs launch price, Pan will drop to £749 in a few weeks but they should be competing with Fuji now.
Oly EM5 = £785 … drop it to £699 now
Oly EP5 = £899 … drop it to £699 now
Pan G6 = £549 < fantastic value … it'll be £499 before too long
Come on Oly, look at Fuji, look at the Coolpix A, Ricoh GR, they are all gonna take some volume away
If Ricoh can sell me a DX sensor compact body made of Mag Alloy with a 28mm f.2,8 equivalent included for £599 why would a pay a penny over £699 for a smaller sensor camera without a lens?
** Olympus in not Leica
Love the build quality of the EPM2, and EM5, and the EP5 feels great in hand – but only Leica can do what Leica does
I dont get why people neglect to mention so much about the fujis
can the fuji focus in -4 ev? heck it cant focus in 4oclock light!
can the fuji do wireless flash?
can the fuji do 1/8000 shutter?
can the fuji refresh the VF at 240fps?
can the fuji do RAW 6400 or 125?
has fuji resolved the watercolor issue? (no)
can the fuji do decent video?
touchscreen? amount of fn buttons?
all good points
bigger sensor
AF speed – is it really an issue on the street or are you using OMD for sports?
Ricoh GR focusing speed is slow in low light but its not an issue since its not an action camera, video on the Coolpix A is buried but they are aimed at stills shooters
Fuji as a travel camera makes Oly look expensive (yep would love touch screen, perhaps that is explaining the Oly price premium – fabulous touch screen, ibis) the big question is whether you need it?
I dont get why people neglect to mention so much about the fujis
can the fuji focus in -4 ev? heck it cant focus in 4oclock light!
can the fuji do wireless flash?
can the fuji do 1/8000 shutter?
can the fuji refresh the VF at 240fps?
can the fuji do RAW 6400 or 125?
has fuji resolved the watercolor issue? (no)
can the fuji do decent video?
touchscreen? amount of fn buttons?
E-P5 with 17 mm 1.8 and EVF4 is great…too fast,solid and double dial + switch is perfect.
How can the E-P5 have sold at all in the first quarter, if it came out in the third quarter of this year?
Isn’t it normal that sales stop in anticipation of a new model?
Either way only very few will cough up $1500 for this camera.
EP-5 had to have a built in viewfinder to be a game changer like the panasonic gx-7.
I’ll stick to my omd with the focus peaking trick for the time being
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ArqBplO8cQ
btw this clearly shows that the camera had crippled functions and a firmware upgrade would have made an EM-5 even better camera than it is.
E-PX series have always been expensive, and please somebody tell the guys in Olympus that the rivals are also excellent, even the cheaper ones.
The only thing Olympus should have done with the E-P5, is to put an EVF in the corner!
Then it would have been a commercial success with the same price!
Thats the problem with m/43. The new camera’s are way to expensive. Apsc prises with point and shoot sensors en photo output. And they use to have the small size advantage but that is a thing of the past. Nex and Fuji are also small with superior lenses and sensors. 43 are nice camera’s with fun options but they just can compete with newer apsc. They must target the 400 euro market or else it will be over them.
I like to buy an e-p5, because of the Big hump & no Flash of the (comming) om-d! E-M1 its ugly in my mind. The Problem is that i like to have an evf. The next pen will/Must have it!
Admin needs to read what Olympus said again as the headline of this article is incorrect.
“Olympus said that its sales of its signature mirrorless model, the PEN, had fallen 12 percent in the first quarter (below its expectations).”
The E-P5 was not even realised in the first quarter so they are not referring to E-P5 sales figures. It is released in the 2nd quarter.
So the headline: ‘Seven new Olympus E-P5 reviews. But despite all the good it is not selling well (says Olympus).’ is incorrect and you appear to be just spinning information into a news article to get a reaction?
Right. I corrected the title. It’s the full PEN range not selling as expected.
🙂 Good man! You got my respect.
The first headline was poorly phrased. That can happen to the best of us and I never thought it was intentional. You recognized it with the help of comments and corrected it. That is a sign of integrity.
sometimes i think, are we photographers or analysts? if we are both, it many times means we dont excel in either discipline?
No, we are forum junkies 1st and 2nd wannabe photogs… :/
I really wanted an Oly, but I just bought the Canon EOSm double lens kit and flash $466US delivered to OZ. It was the f2 prime, price and IQ that got me. I think canons fire sale will be hurting a lot of other manufacturers.
Paid £1100 for EP5, 17/1.8 and VF4 from Camerainthepost
Sold VF4 for £175.
17/1.8 is worth £375, meaning I paid £550 for my EP5
For £550 its a bargain 🙂
Keith,
Only problem with me with that is that now you don’t have an EVF an absolutely critical item for me 🙂 , on the other hand I don’t want the 17mm so I could sell it. I may just give it a go I have never heard of Camerainthepost are they ok if you have any issues I assume they are a HongKong importer like Digital Rev or One stop digital?
Sammy
Yes Camerainthepost are like digitalrev but smaller. I can only say good things. Service and shipping was first class. It came with English Manuals and UK plug too.
Re the viewfinder, I have a NEX7 too, and never use the viewfinder. Much prefer the screen.
With the EP5 its all about using the touch screen to select focus point, which renders the viewfinder obsolete.
The VF4 is AMAZING btw, blows the NEX7 finder into the dustbin.
Well deserved for crippling the EP5 and then pricing it too high to attract the upgraders while the design and features do not appeal to the photographers.
Love the PEN range, just not as keen on the price-tag.
And personally I prefer the look of the EP5 to the EM1… We all have our preferences 🙂
Should really compare to X-E1 at this price-point.
New models price tag is to close APC sensors size cameras and older model owners doesn’t have much reason to upgrade the body department in my opinion.
I think there’s something more that explains this fall in sales of the Pen series, and it’s quite simple: the release of the OMD. Since the OMD is in the market the sales of PEN (and Pana) cameras have fallen. Of course they did, the OMD it’s the best camera of the system today! When I decide to change my Pen I will not choose another Pen, I will go for the OMD, as did most of the Olympus MFT users and many from Pana.
As I said many times, because the price is much more expensive than the entry level DSLR and most people always think that DSLR is better, then DSLR is the definite choice for them. Please understand us and reduce the price.
E-P5 shouldn’t be priced more than that of the Canon 700d.
Please listen yo us.
Q. is if the EP5 has only big margin(just to lable it as luxury/quality) …or Oly realy had big production costs for this model
also Q. is if Oly will do something with the EP5 price and will get this as a lessons learnd for EP6 model ( price level vs. competitors, evf etc )
couse if not …and they dump themself to shit …then it is bad for m43 future too
like the m43 system much so hopefully it will live long 🙂
The 5 Pen needs built-in EVF! Without that it is a flaw camera for too many – and over priced as well. (Some do not care, but they are too few.)
Agreed.
Olympus should understand the EM5 success is likely not the classic look. It’s the EVF. Put an EVF in the pen a-la GX7 and you got a seller.
Admin. You will have to be careful with your headlines.
The comment about drop in pen sales will be forever associated with the e-p5 on this site. Yet it does not refer to the ep5 but earlier models. The period concerned was prior to the release of the ep5. In 12 months time people will still be talking about the big drop in sales caused by the ep5. Which is not (at the moment) true.
Also oly had spoken about the drop and it was reported here some weeks ago.
Good point JimD. I am glad you pointed that out.
One reason for this is the Admin being a non-native English speaker. Hopefully, he will read your comment and make the necessary corrections.
There’s lots of comments about how poor Olympus and Panasonic are at advertising and marketing.
That may help a bit with the poor sales, but IMHO the real problem is price vs function, plain and simple.
M4/3 is a decent system, I don’t have one at this point but had before… and I really want another one. I absolutely loved the size of the gear, but lets face it, paying 1000€ for a EP-5 without EVF?!? 1200 for and OM-D?!? (yes, I know it costs less now) even a 1000 for the GX7?!? For what? size alone, because in everything else I can get better elsewhere.
A good DSLR costs that or maybe even less, it’s lenses are mostly cheaper, specially primes, and it’s AF is on another universe.
Yes I know, M4/3 has the faster AF system on the planet…blah…blah… for static subjects that may be true, but who on earth needs fast AF on static subjects?!? Fast AF is needed on subjects that moves fast, that’s it, and m4/3 simply doesn’t deliver there.
Yes many folks don’t need moving subjects, ok. But still the camera costs the same or more than a DSLR capable of doing it all. So those who need it, which is probably the largest majority of shooters, even soccer moms, just get themselves a DSLR.
If the price was at least lower, people would probably be able to cope with the shortcomings, but at the same price is simply no contest.
I really don’t believe Olympus would lose any money if they sold the EP-5 at 700€ or so. Would it take more cameras to recover the R&D? absolutely. But I’ll bet the EP-5 would sell a lot of times more than what their selling now, so one would make up for the other easily.
It would also attract more users to the system, that would sell more lenses, more flashes, more EVFs, etc, helping the system overall.
Also, by being cheaper at start cameras would sell better and prices wouldn’t drop so much after some time, making m4/3 cameras a safer value in the long term.
Oly and Panny, stop being greedy!!!
JMHO 😉
So true!!! The key is attracting people in the system with competitively priced cameras and keep them buying lenses and accessories to recover money.
With a OMD and a lens like m.zuiko 75/1.8 I haven’t even bothered to test CAF. For objects moving towards you at moderate speed, like a running dog or a bicycle racer, SAF is often fast enough to nail focus. All I can say is, test it and you will see that I’m right.
Maybe in your dreams!!!
Now try that OM-D+ 75 F1.8 and compare it against a Nikon D300+85 F/1.8 (don’t even need to be the AF-S, the AF-D will do). AF is not just often fast enough, it is ALWAYS fast enough, I had a superb AF hit rate with the nikon setup in any kind of light, and it’s a much older setup and even cheaper than the OM-D. Compare these two, and see the difference in keepers rate after a session.
I have hundreds of pictures that tell me it’s not a dream, and that you are wrong, even if I shatter your dream.
Ok, good for you. Now can you show us some crops of a few of those hundreds shots you have? I only want to see how tack sharp they are at full size, please show me that.
I’d love to see a series of even 5 or 6 photos following motion that are truly tack sharp with an OM-D, show me that and I’ll shut up. I’ll even get one tomorrow 😛
I can send one to admin and see if he will post it. Tho only thing I have done to the Picture is saved it as jpeg, I always shoot raw. It’s 5.57 MB in size. I took it at F4.5 and 1/1000 shutterspeed. If he posts it, remember that these guys run their bikes at 50-60 Km/h.
One isolated shot has very little meaning, I had tons of well focused “one shots” with even a G5, is a series in a row that is a problem, and the keepers rate while doing so.
Even in MF you can easily get a lot of well focused shots here and there.
Is keeping up with motion that m4/3 fails, or other mirrorless cameras. That’s what I meant with show me 5 or 6 photos, photos following something moving and keeping the subject in focus, and not parallel to the camera.
I don’t even know why are we discussing this, aren’t the m4/3 shortcomings for moving subjects more than debated at this point?
You can take one photo or two of a series of something moving fast, but don’t try to put an OM-D at the level of a DSLR at this, it just doesn’t keep up.
Also, why would you need to ask the admin to post the images? Just paste the links here.
Billy you just got to admit your a poor picture taker and cannot use something that is new or different. A bit slow and stuck in the mud. Others have no problem with the Em5 which it is not the OMD BTW. OMD is a camera line. E-M5 is the model.
Wow, you’re so smarter than everyone else…impressive.
No one here know yet what the OM-D is, thanks for that.
Even if admin focused on that unike quote of NYT article, the fact is that the WHOLE mirrorless market went down the expectations on 1st semester (99% of the article is about Nikon). Stop seeing it as an Olympus centric problem.
So maybe mirrorless technology is still too expensive compared to DLSR, maybe expectations were too high (forget to take in account that there’s an economic crisis around there), but we can’t conclude that this is only a matter of “right pricing”.
“A good DSLR costs that or maybe even less, it’s lenses are mostly cheaper, specially primes, and it’s AF is on another universe.”
That’s total crap. Body wise the em5 is vastly superior to the majority of APSC and a lot of 135 cameras.
Lens wise I think it it is acknowledged that the primes available for the m43 system are as good as the best available elsewhere. In addition the m43 system can use the best of other systems as well.
As for AF the oly m43 cameras are the fastest AF cameras around (not just cdaf) and the hit rate is far better that the “good” DSLRs. go read some good science fiction not the crap from the sites you are relying on for your universe.
“Body wise the em5 is vastly superior to the majority of APSC and a lot of 135 cameras.”
err… you do work for Olympus right?
“As for AF the oly m43 cameras are the fastest AF cameras around (not just cdaf) and the hit rate is far better that the “good” DSLRs. go read some good science fiction not the crap from the sites you are relying on for your universe.”
You really have to work for Olympus!!
So now please show me some really good sport images with that spectacular and super accurate OM-D autofocus. Preferably something that includes 100%, not just resized crap.
If the AF is so perfect there should be tons of those around.
OM-D focus fast? sure it does. Is it accurate? absolutely. But the target has to be still, or at least moving not very fast.
Now…why on earth would anyone needs fast AF on something that doesn’t move?!?
I want fast AF for the fast moving subjects, for static subjects I can as well shoot MF, the end results would be the same.
Or maybe it’s just the OM-Ds made in my universe that just can’t keep up with my DSLRs, AF-C wise. Maybe I have to get one from yours.
@Billy telling us we are wrong when you don’t even own a modern m43, is bold.
I rent Nikon gear (and I don’t mean low end) for some work and can tell you my OM-D can keep up with that very well. The only issue is follow focus or C-AF, but that might be solved with E-M1.
You did read the part “had and then sold” right?
I don’t have it because it didn’t did the job.
“The only issue is follow focus or C-AF, but that might be solved with E-M1.”
The only issue? that’s is THE issue. Or you only shoot dead things?
Even for casual shooters who want to shoot their kids running around the OM-D isn’t enough, not if you want to have really tack sharp photos everytime, or close to it…want to convince me otherwise? fine, show me images, that will shut me up.
Courtesy Don Parrot
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63427925@N00/sets/72157630172691350/with/7429219782/
These run faster than your kids. Maybe you blame the equipment for your poor technique.
Thanks JimD, now I don’t have to show Billy my pictures. Do you know if Don took them with CAF or SAF? As I told Billy, I haven’t tested CAF yet, because SAF is often fast enough.
Here we go again, resized images, anything is good enough at that size… or almost.
And yes, I’ve seen DonParrot’s images many times, for me their just one more example that m4/3 is NOT good enough for this style of shooting.
Even at reduces sizes we notice the focus is not where it should be, most of times it’s slightly at the back.
Some samples from his flickr:
I don’t know where focus is on this image, but it’s definitely not in the dog.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8273/8707760677_186e6e9832_o.jpg
This one is easy to see the focus in the tail
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8545/8707762193_b23b2d6bb7_o.jpg
So is this
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8545/8707761719_a4e9f930bc_o.jpg
another on in the tail
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7379/8723252518_55feea8c06_o.jpg
And another one:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7315/8748042495_aa8ba5945e_o.jpg
There’s a lot more with the same symptoms, even at the race you linked, but these have shorter DOFs so it’s easier to see the issues.
If you think these are tack sharp, well focused images, that only shows who has poor technique.
Also, don’t mistake what I do, I don’t shoot running kids, I shoot flying birds. And no way the OM-D is good enough for that. Don’t believe? Talk with any other professional bird shooter who has used one for that…I’m sure you’ll find lots of them agreeing with you.
For flying birds I have to agree with Billy tha the EM-5 isn’t the right tool. Many time it can’t even find focus without a little help with manual focus, and sometimes it still hunts for focus. My old E-3 is much better at that.
@admin
I can’t see the woods for the trolls 🙁
“I hope the new E-M1 will not share the same fate of the E-P5”
E-P5 will be more successful than E-M1. I’d bet money on it.
The EP5 is priced too high…
The G1 is priced too high…
They will both be hard sells at the intro prices!
Sorry…didn’t mean G1…I meant the EM1…duh….
Not many participants in this discussion seem to understand the new position of the E-Px series in Oly’s lineup. From the E-P5 on it will be a boutique line of exquisite, expensive items which symbolize the continuity of a certain gestalt. It is quite obvious Olympus does not count on the E-P5 to become a mass seller. It’s products like E-PL5 and E-M5 that should pull the cart forward while E-P5 (and E-M1?) are merely decorations added to attract attention to it. This approach is deeply rooted in Japanese culture and has many examples in other fields.
Your statement is quite reasonable. It is entirely possible they see it that way. I would like to see the ep5 and the em5 as the same camera in different body styles but technically the same inc EVF. then fit the epl or epm under them.
The outrageous prices do not work for m43 anymore. When you can get a small DSLR like the Canon SL1/100D + a great quality kit lens for less than half or maybe even one third of the price of an M43 camera with equivalent image quality (in fact, worse image quality most of the time, and slower auto-focus in many cases), I’m not sure how they can expect to sell them.
Not to mention that on a cheap DSLR you don’t have to buy a $300 viewfinder separately.
In bundle with 17 mm 1.8 EVF is free…Personnaly i would like an E-P6 build in evf like a GX7…but for now is not so hard to move and remove optional EVF.
Not mention with DSLR you don’t have the size ,the weight ,the elegancy ,the 5 axis IBIS and the plethora of small,light micro 4/3 lenses.
Actually, E-PM2 is cheaper then the 100D by a bit, and gives better image quality, especially dynamic range is better. Also, af is actually much faster, as confirmed by every halfway serious test. How much does Canon pay you for spreading those lies?
No it doesn’t. No m43 gives better IQ than apsc. It’s not only about noise and dr. Apsc gives you greater total resolution. Better colour information and so on.
You must be joking. My m4/3 equipment gives approx this same quality as current sox and far better than one or two years old apc cameras. The sensors are also nearly the same size of you take a larger view.
The bonus for us m4/3 users are size, as we all know.
mFT is at least as good as Canon APS camera the Nikon/Pentax and Sony using the Sony 16mp APS sensor are a little better and the new 24mp sensor in the d7100/d5200 is better still.Frankly the advantages of Canon APS are pretty minimal.
It makes you wonder what happened to Canon sensor development a few years back they led the pack
More pixels is a bit of a waste if those pixels are of inferior quality. More noise will prevent you from actually getting more detail, and the pixel count is just a marketing argument that people like you seem to fall for. There is a 48mp phone camera around, that one is even better for you.
Any serious tests show Canon’s current aps-c sensors performing worse then the current 4/3″ sensors, unlike the latest crop of Nikon aps-c sensors, which perform better then either.
Guess you’ve not shot with a EM5 before. Like always, Olympus cameras are more than the total sum of paper specs. Know Super Control Panel? know in body stabilisation on any lenses? know IS preview with all mountable lenses? know 9FPS? know fast S-AF? know fast touch screen AF? Know damp shutter? Know customisable AEL? Know 14x focus magnification with stabilisation?……. Guess not
I know what m43 and 43 is. I had an m43 and have 43 camera. APSC is better. Every bigger format is better in IQ. Every compact format is a compromisse. And no dx0 will change that. ISO 100 is about IQ. High iso is about convinience. And apsc can handle higher pixel count because of bigger pixels. Smaller pixels give you what point and shoot cameras give you. Junk. So having the same pixel size, apsc can give you higher resolution in equal quality.
My question is have you shot with a em5? I personally shot with canon 20d 350d 5d nikon d5100 d80 pentax k20 and only 5d gives more noticable iq depth. D5100 just edges em5 a tiny bit in raw but lost out in jpeg processing.
I think it makes no sense to compare m4/3 with DSLR prices.
They are completely different systems, both having their strenghts and weaknesses.
Inform yourself about it, then buy which suits best your needs.
go look at the fastest AF on the net reviews. Then come back and tell the world you know nothing.
Of course M43s are way overpriced, and inferior to DSLRs in all respects except size. And of course the Olympus marketing hacks writing in this forum will never admit to it. It’s obvious and funny at the same time.
I’m sorry for your sorry @ss.
Why the heck would you want to visit this forum if you have no interrest in m43 other than to seek confirmation to compensate your insecurity.
Please let the door hit you as you leave.
Woah how rude, I bet you are a little wet feet geek off the keyboard.
It’s ok. Let the rest of everyone buy Nikon and Canon DSLRs. Personally, I’d hate to see everyone shooting with my choice of camera.
Interesting post. How many 4/3 and m4/3 users swarm Canikon sites and talk crap about Canikon cameras? Compare that to the endless swarms of Canikon turds that visit here and on other 4/4 and m4/3 sites and puke in almost every thread. Are you all so unhappy of you camera choise that you have to come here and behave like morons to feel better? Have you problems with your masculinity, there is Viagra for all you Canikon turds.
I think it’s better to care about the pictures you take with a camera, rather than the financial health of the company that made your camera.
They ARE too pricey, and that really is the key. You don’t attack the market leaders at the SAME PRICE. You need to take the longer-term view, whereas OlyPan are trying to amortise costs within weeks. So what happens? – Buyers know the high price will fall, so they wait. Price falls in due time, but the impetus has been lost. Worse, this creates in potential buyers a perception that the OlyPan product has less intrinsic value compared with the (CaNikon) competition. People don’t want to buy a devalued brand. By setting a properly competitive level in the first place, the product will sell better at the outset, the values will stay higher for longer and help support better brand image. But distributors also play a big part: world price levels vary widely, it can only be a distributor problem that makes the same camera $999 in the US but £999 in UK, which is a huge disparity. OlyPan need to review their whole marketing strategy.
They evolue thier models too fast while thier production is not up to date, that’s why they are pricy.
The problem of Oly is not too many models. The problem is the pricing. Oly still uses the old retarded strategy of overpricing and then deprecating. Official reasoning is that people supposed to feel better when they buy something supposedly expensive at the low price. In the age of internet reviews, it only earns them negative points in the conclusion.
Also, I have noticed that Oly started advertising the PEN in Germany (most notably at Heise.de). Sadly, all the ad links lead to E-P5 promo site. And E-P5 is so effing overpriced that it is not even funny. And not a single mention of E-PM2 or E-PL5.
All in all, it is the repetition of the same story we have already seen in the 43 times. First and mid period cams were innovative and competitively priced. Last cams were highly incremental and largely overpriced. I have no problem with the incremental nature, but price…
agreed. they should take a look at apple marketing. the new iwhatever (starting) from 199. they always advertise their cheapest machine. then you click your way through the store and come up with something more expensive 🙂
Olympus needs a rebel omd with pdaf, evf and all other dslr features. They can’t realy expect that everyone with olympus 43 lenses that owns a E4xx/E5xx/E6xx will spend 1500 € just to be able to focus his lenses from a format that olympus officialy still supports. Without a cheap on sensor pdaf camera with in body evf, olympus still hasn’t realized the promise of one beautiful system.
All that is needed for that is Olympus sticking to its long time policy of using the same sensor throughout its entire line of current cameras.
Remember the OMD-Lite is in the works and also the true E-M5 replacement. I would guess most of the upcoming Olympus mft cameras will have on-sensor PDAF and that it will be improved each time. So it just might be possible in the future to buy an OMD-Lite for $900 usd with built-in evf and on-sensor pdaf. Give it some time.
As I posted earlier but went to admins arbitration.
The word compact has dire connotations in the US. The era of the ‘compact” car brought big problems in marketing and sales particularly for Japanese cars (Nissan, Toyota et all) that did not fit into the niche or exotic categories as many European cars did (BMW, Jag, mini, Citroen, Fiat and others).
It took 20 to 30 years for the 4 cylinder ‘compact’ to change into the ‘small’ category car that is today so accepted (and alliances between Japanese manufacturers and US car subsidiaries). But the word compact is still tarred with the illusion of being not quite all there.
The first time I saw 4/3 cameras referred to as compact was in a derogatory way by US users of 135 sensor cameras. It was intended to be derogatory as the cars were, again to imply that they are not all there.
Remove the word compact and sales in the US will start to increase. If every one refuses to acknowledge the word compact when referring to mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, even to the extent of articles with the word compact in them, the name will soon disappear and sales will improve.
Oly and pany need to work on this with Kodak, Sony, Fuji and Samsung.
What needs bl00dy moderating in my last post.
It takes away all the fluidity and reduces a post to being irrelevant and missed and so it may be but when delayed it is made irrelevant anyway.
You are right. From October we will have Disquis installed!
Had the E-P5 had 1080p 60fps, I would have bought it with the new EVF. I would have bought over the E-M1.
If the Pen series is not doing well, then aim the product to a growth sector: video.
When the OLympus Rep was the local camera store at the same time I was in I got to handle an “early production” version of the E-P5. I got to play with it for over an hour. It is an excellent camera. It is very well built and looks good. Still it was not the camera for me. Just like any Pen camera is not for me. I do like an built-in evf and weather-sealing. If the E-P5 had those two features I will most likely have one now. Also after handing the “early production” I ended up buying an E-M5 for my wife birthday even though the E-P5 would be available by her birthday.
I do now have my name on the pre-order list for the E-M1 at the local camera store. From the video it has the feautes that I am looking for (grip with better button placement. more buttons for better direct control, full wifi control, and VF4 built-in).
When the E-M5 was announced I was number 6 on the pre-order list at the local camera store. They got 5 cameras in on their first batch and it took over a month for the next shipment. With the E-P5 they had less pre-orders and with their first shipment they were able to have couple of the shelve to sell to walk-in customers.
I think the problem might just be, that without a built in VF, they are sort of difficult to see the LCD outside and the add on VF is just awkward and looks like crap in my opinion. I know it’s not the looks that matter, but for a lot of people looks, matters very much. The price of the the EP5 isn’t helping matters. Fuji seems to have got it right, from the start, then, they added one without a VF. I guess time will tell who was right. I know I was asking for what Fuji has done, for years, yet here I am with a bag full of M4/3 lenses.
There are far too many m4/3 camera releases, with no real obvious marketing plan. With dslr’s we have base models, then a mid model, then a top of the line model, talking generally here, and of course that model can be broken. I’m not sure who would buy the e-p5, may as well buy the OM-D. I bought a e-p1 and didn’t like the lack of viewfinder, I couldn’t see a thing in bright sunlight, which means I can’t buy any Olympus lower priced model, and no, I don’t want to buy an extra viewfinder. I really don’t think the product lines have been well thought out for Olympus. Panasonic are much better, but they bring out so many cameras, I may as well wait for last year’s model to drop to half price.
Thumbs down on this post. The issues of PEN sales in Q1 and EP5 issues are being mingled, and it also ignores the fact that there is a general downturn in mirrorless sales against a backdrop of continued recessions and consumer debt overhang.
Admin — important issue, but bad analysis. It’s important to split the issues appropriately, instead of implying or suggesting a link or causation (EP5 price implies lower sales of PEN and Oly issues). I get where you’re coming from, but I’m going to suggest that you ought take a step back and think about this a little more.
+1000
I don’t understand all the commotion here. I little decline occasionally is perfectly normal. Remember, m43 didn’t even exist 4 years ago.
E-PL5 or E-PM2 are much better choice than E-P5 at price point, and look better.
They have one camera that sell OM-D E-M5. Focus on that and improve. Forget everything else.
E-P5 bundled with VF4 should be priced at $999.
E-P5 is now a premium line, hence the premium price.
E-Px => luxury/boutique
E-Mx => workhorse/enthusiast
E-PMx & E-PLx => low cost/mainstream
I have both E-M5 & E-P5, the E-M5 feels cheap & plasticky next to E-P5. You also get much superior EVF, albeit at the expense of slightly taller dimension.
Anyway, if you think the E-P5 + EVF kit is too expensive, then get it with the 17mm lens kit & sell away the lens. It will end up slightly cheaper than OMD body.
What do they expect.
Every entry level DLSR has viewfinder, a built in flash and in the mean time also a tiltable LCD.
Thats what every entry level mirrorless also should have.
Make it as small as possible but do not leave out features that most people want.
And sell it to a reasonable price. That would sell at least reasonable.
Ok make one mirrorless without viewfinder and without tiltable LCD for people who do not want it.
I do not know from where they get the idea to leave out feature and sell it to a high price.
Back in 2008 I bought Olympus E-410 with kit 14-42 kit lens which was my first ever DSLR after a few of compacts I owned before – Minolta, Fuji and Casio.
The only reason I bought it was huge discount from one of our retailers – less than $300 which was (and still is) a very good price for entry level DSLR especially 5 years ago.
I fell in love with it immediately – so superb in-camera jpegs that I almost never made a shot in RAW, very compact size comparable to today mirrorless bodies, prefect ergonomics, superb built quality, absolutely flawless and cheap Zuiko lenses (in addition to phenomenal 14-42 lens which IMHO is the best budget kit lens of all times and all systems I owned 40-150 and 70-300 and they were all damn sharp, had great bokeh and covered all my needs). I got a taste of pro Zuiko range on a trip organized by Olympus and folks!… there’s no life after Zuiko – all the G and Zeiss stuff I’ve been trying at annual photo shows couldn’t beat incomparable pro range primes and zooms from Zuiko which were costing few times less.
And that’s the whole point of my message – if Oly can deliver comparable or even very slightly less quality mirrorless bodies for less, they’ll have a huge success.
They had revolutionary live view, anti-dust shaker and stabilization, the best ever tilting mechanism for back LCD screen etc. for a very reasonable price and I seriously planned to stay with Oly for all my life but they suddenly abandoned 4/3.
E-3 was too outdated in 2012 and E-5 was too expensive for amateur like me and at the time of it’s debut it was clear that they won’t support 4/3 anymore so I switched to Sony mostly because of video capabilities and wrong assumptions based on forums postings that Minolta lenses are good.
My eyes popped out when I first saw the unbelievable chromatic abberations on beercan and pics made with 28-135 on 16 MP sensor were much worse (detail and contrast) than pics made with $70 Zuiko 14-42 kit lens on 10 MP sensor.
And I hate the abracadabra of model names – both in Pen and NEX – when they first appeared I was very enthusiastic and considered buying them but later when they pulverized the naming into E-P, E-PL, E-PM etc. I lost interest because it was very difficult to track all the changes.
I believe that popularity of Canon and Nikon is based mostly on loyalship to decades long standards – mount, flashes etc.
Olympus showed us that they can be innovative and they make damn good lenses but if they want to sell their stuff well they have to offer something unique for much less money.
Now it’s exact opposite – they offer less and less innovations with each new model but ask for more and more.
I really wanted to switch to OM-D but for the same price I bought Sony A-57 with 18-135 (first decent zoom from Sony), 50 1.4 and Sigma 10-20.
If Olympus think the buyers of their products are riches who don’t care about the price, they are wrong. They can make very decent stuff (especially optics) for reasonable prices but somehow they don’t want to.
Good luck folks!
This post proves I still keep tracking m4/3 as my future system but the pricing disappoints me from the idea more and more each day.
@Sergei
Hi. Interesting post. Did you choose the A-57 only for price considerations or did that model have some features you really wanted and OM-D hadn’t?
You say that Olympus offers less innovations. I’m not sure: IBIS, great IQ in a small package, great m43 primes… We’ll see what the EM-1 has to offer, but I don’t have the feeling they are “late” on innovation… High price is the real flaw… Maybe the rumored low end OMD will make a reasonably priced entrey level camera in OMD family?
Three simple things.
Advertising- they need to get the word out.
BUILT-IN VIEWFINDER! – they need to stop with this viewfinder as an accessory crap. “Serious cameras” have built-in viewfinders. (I mean this from a layman’s perspective). Otherwise, it’s a VERY expensive point and shoot.
Price – it’s just too expensive, especially when compared to the E-M5 and specs of the GX-7.
On a personal note, I love the aesthetics of the E-P5 over my E-M5. If they could take the rumored specs of the E-M1 and cram them in an E-P5 body, that would be my dream camera.
CAN someone confirm about wifi remote working juste
in i-auto mode??
Thank you.
Wish they’d kept the interchangable grip feature of the E-PL5.