Photokina 2014 – Panasonic-GH4-Matt-Frazer about the GH4 from Personal View on Vimeo.
Photographyblog interviewed Barnaby Sykes and Dai Mukai from Panasonic. Here are some key info:
– Whether we’re looking at volume or value, CSC shows very strong growth.
– (in UK) We actually had more orders than we forecast for the GH4 and ran out. We got some more in from Japan and ran out again. We’ve just put another order in.
– The GM5 is not called GM2 because it’s a major step up from the GM5 and will not replace the Gm1 (has EVF, improvement in AF speed and also burst shooting).
– LX100 also doesn’t replace the LX7
– Cameras with built-in Viewfinders are a really hot trend on the market
– premium compact camera (fixed lens) market is growing
Sounds like Panasonic is finally on the right path!
Panasonic preorders:
LX100 at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto. Europe at WexUK.
GM5 at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto. Europe at WexUK.
GM5 in red at Adorama.
35-100mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto.
Olympus preorders:
Silver E-M1 body at Amazon, Adorama, Bhphoto, GetOlympus. In Europe at Wex UK.
40-150mm f/2.8 PRO lens at Amazon, Adorama, Bhphoto, GetOlympus. In Europe at Wex UK.
LH-76 lens hood at Adorama, Bhphoto, GetOlympus.
MC-14 1.4x teleconverter at Amazon, Adorama, Bhphoto, GetOlympus.
PRF-ZD62 Z protection filter at Adorama, Bhphoto, GetOlympus.
PRF-ZD72 Z protection filter at Adorama, Bhphoto, GetOlympus.
General links to all new Olympus stuff at Adorama.
ALL new stuff announced at Photokina at Amazon.
102 Responses
GM5 is not really a major step from the GM1. GM5 have af speed increasing maybe but does not have new AF upgrade from GH4, LX100 and FZ1000. It only have an EVF and less video limit with 1080p60 progressive.
I hope Panasonic will release a new GX with all GH4 upgrade got.
Not likely, at least for a generation or two. The GH series is always the most video featured of their cameras. A new GX might get a better focus system, but don’t expect it to match the video features of the GH4.
I didn’t find in the article how many units they sold. He only talks about percentage increases and percentage marketshares. The questions will be how many cameras you actually sold?
+1
I never heard officially about a camera that did not exceed the (likely low) expectations. Pure marketing nonsense. In Germany, I haven’t seen any shop, where the GH4 was out of stock for a long while. If it is the case in the UK, it could mean that the dealers don’t know their customers well enough.
http://www.slrlounge.com/gh4-sales-roof-panasonic-doubles-production/
So because you haven’t hear it “officially”, it doesn’t mean anything? Both B&H and Adorama were out of stock, and I’m sure both stores are larger and better stocked than the stores you so-called went to.
And if it was available everywhere, I’m sure the Olympus shelves were WAY more stocked, huh?
Marketing nonesense? No, saying you’re going to make a profit this fiscal year, only to fail miserably four years straight is marketing nonsense.
It was mentioned here some time ago that they produce about 5000 units of the GH4 per month. I have no idea if it the best selling CSC but given the price tag it certainly is a success for Panasonic.
Oh you’re not?
Panasonic has partnerships with a lot of other companies. They were able to share or sell divisions and able to create new ones in order to get out of the red and remain profitable. The GH4 is a hot item, and the camera division is on its way up.
Sony and Olympus are STILL in the red, yet you’re not impressed??
Maybe if they managed Olympus, they would become profitable again.
Tale of two cities atm. Panasonic innovating as fast as Sony, Olympus plodding along.
If the E-M5, E-M1, 75/1.8, 60mm f2.8 macro, 12-40/2.8, 40-150/2.8, 1.4 TC, 300mm f4 and live-bulb/time are plodding – long may they plod.
The 75/1.8 was plodded by Sigma for Olympus though. Not an Original Olympus plod.
Try buying one from Sigma.
16MP sensors. Image output quality every bit as good as it was 3 years ago.
How is product proliferation equivalent to “innovation?”
Not true. Please compare 16MP GX7 vs. 16MP GX1
Did you see the black/silver E-M1? I’ve read and seen videos of people complaining that the silver color doesn’t match… The dials color doesn’t match the body color.
I hope they fix that for production. Otherwise, they’re gonna be stuck with a ton of them!
“Cameras with built-in Viewfinders are a really hot trend on the market”
Does this mean that the “selfie-n-send” trend is finally on the way out?…he asked hopefully….LOL.
definitely no.
Cameras with view finders are a trend since more than 50 years! Cameras without view finders were a small period in camera history triggered by the smartphone mania.
Hahahah. Touché
Very good point!
I think that a camera for serious photography has a viewfinder. It’s the only kind that I own…and I do not own a smart phone….(yet! LOL)
…..the phones trended a lot of useless cameras and then eventually killed them all off. It’s true. The large majority of people on planet earth will never own a “camera”.
The great thing about that..is that it makes my photos look stunning! LOL!
In the film era you had no choice.
People who _started_ taking photos with digital cameras do not use very often the VF.
And the number of such people is continuously growing.
And when you grow up and reach middle age you will have no choice as well. Unless you want a big clunky loupe on the back of your screen or want to wear bi-focal glasses.
Google presbyopia.
not really. I used to use the OVF with the film cameras but do not miss it anymore. The VF is completely useless if you make low/high angle photos/videos.
Cameras with view finders are a trend since more than 50 years, when it comes to 35mm small format camera. If you are looking real cameras like Hasselblad or Linhoff, you may notice they have ‘live view display’, not that tiny viewfinders.
Cameras without viewfinders were mainstream among serious photographers.
This is something that makes me laugh when some of these “serious photographers” say a camera needs a VF to be a real camera.
GM5 is just a stupid name. It’s not a major upgrade from the GM1, it just got a EVF(and possibly DFD). No 4K and no IBIS. EVF a pretty big thing of course, but why “5”. Why not 3 or 4 of 7? GX line goes from 1 to 7 right away. There just is no logic in that, and there is no vision behind it. How are they going to name the next GX? GX11?
No.
It will be GX007, silly. 🙂
No DFD either.
That one is weird, since it’s basically just software processing, no?
The GM5 numbering reflected improvement over GM1 , the bigger of the no , the more improvement you get according to Pana .
Look at LX7 & LX100’s differ , is huge enough .
So the next GX is easy to guess , just pay attention to the numbering .
The bigger leaping of no , the more innovation techs likely to feature .
5 = V = Viewfinder, believe or not.
Dear camera manufacturers, quit telling us all the time how wonderful things are going, and give us some real numbers. Show us exactly how many units yoy for the last 5 years, and show us how much revenue from the retail pos (NOT just channel shipments) for the last 5 years. Otherwise, your vague rosyness is the same thing we’ve been hearing in the industry for years while the hobby slowly settles to the bottom of the sea.
Why?
If you want to become a shareholder, read their financial reports.
The ‘hobby’ has never had so many choices, of such high capability and quality available to it at any previous time in history.
🙂 I think the answer is obvious. Sadly, the hobby suffers, because there are fewer and fewer proper products and a plethora of childish, half-baked gadgets, often described as innovations, which pollute the markets creating useless “choice” (LOL).
And how do you propose they get the retail figures worldwide ?
Perhaps they should contact every camera retail outlet in the world (assuming they can identify them) and ask if they’ve kept detailed figures? Then search ebay and Amazon and Alibaba for every small trader who might have sold a camera or two?
The distributors in the 200 countries they probably sell stuff in won’t know how many have been sold.
The only way to do this would be to look at warranty registrations and as many people don’t register their cameras it would be a very inaccurate figure.
The Panasonic will be on the right path when they finally make the AF/AE Lock button to work while recording video. Why in the world every other manufacturer supports this feature and NONE of Pana cameras still has it? I can’t grasp it. I have been using Pana cameras for 5 years now, since GH1 and that’s the biggest bummer.
Or alternatively they could make One Push AE to work while recording video, too.
care to explain why this AF/AE lock button is so important since you would manually set the exposure and shutter while recording video?
SPEED is the reason. M mode is ok for controlled environment. But if you shoot life events, especially sports, dance and other scenes where the light changes rapidly you just don’t have time for dialing shutter speed and aperture manually. If the scene changes quickly and you start tweaking exposure – it’s GONE, you lost the moment.
Full auto, OTOH, doesn’t look professional because of fluctuating exposure.
So locking exposure while letting the camera’s automatic choose it is a great workaround for reporter style shooters. Every professional camcorder out there has it. It’s quick and easy way to shoot. You point the camera to a new scene with new lighting condition, boom-boom, two clicks of a button and you got your exposure right and locked in a fraction of a second.
Nikon photo cameras has it. Olympus has it. Why not Pana, especially if they position their cameras as a bit more video friendly than the others?
if its true then its a real minus, not having an exposure lock. Its strange that i hear nobody else hear about this. I dont have experience with Panasonic bodies, just using the AE lock on an OLYMPUS during video(and no AWB). Manual mode does not help as an auto brightness function stilll is active here while in manual mode.
I hear somany complaints about framerate issues but about this none..Can anyone else comment about AE issues with Panasonic, because I cant judge based just on one user’s comment.
Because everybody screams for 4K but nobody actually shoots videos.
maybe because exposure lock is obvious for cameramoves or pans in a story telling concept(like from darker to light location where it gives a kind of drama effect), while doc shooters care more about artificial light sources & mixing several raw videos from several sources.
Too right. I bought my GH4 for shooting stills. I don’t give a monkey’s cuss about shooting video, nice to have but …
You do know it out-performs the X-T1 which beats the Df don’t you?
And that’s just for stills.
Imo Panny are missing a trick by aiming thee GH4 at the minority videographer market who already know about it, they are preaching to the choir there, it’s the other masses of stills shooters they need to convert.
Why would you buy an E-M1 when you can have the GH4?
It’s the most annoying thing on the camera. Firmware update will be able to lock down the range for auto which will help a bit.
interesting, guess I was never in the situations you mentioned, for me it is quick enough to change aperture with a twist on my voitglander lenses, while you need to click once to unlock the AF/AE button, wait the camera to auto-adjust the exposure, then click again to lock, seems to me not much quicker, maybe I am wrong…
Once again the GH4 does has it for shooting video.
It is not – but the GH4 can do it anyway.
Also, why no auto ISO in manual mode! And to add insult to injury, why can’t I put ISO on one of the control dials in manual mode (with GX7)! Generally, since you can switch the function of the back mode dial by pressing it, why can’t I put ISO on it in any mode!
Yes , GX7 manual mode not option for auto ISO .
I think is because people who come to this mode should be a master in ISO , Aperture & ShutterSpeed .
So Pana let you decide how you want to take down your pics .
Yes, Pana should let me decide how to take my pictures. And I want auto ISO in M mode.
Trust me, Auto ISO in Manual Mode (GH4) is not the best thing since sliced bread. You cannot compensate exposure and you will lose shadow detail and blow out highlights all over the place. You need to set the exposure by setting f-stop, shutter and ISO manually with an eye on that EV meter and the zebras (or histogram)
So, if you decide the aperture and shutter speed you want (as Panasonic decrees) why do they not allow the camera to pick the ISO ?
Though I don’t use auto ISO myself it can be a very useful feature for people that need (for example) a fast shutter speed and a particularly aperture for DOF but are shooting in changeable light.
They should also allow you to dial in some exposure compensation as well if you’re shooting in tricky conditions (against the light for example).
Olympus is also guilty of this second point.
You are right in some points .
If camera pick the ISO based on your F & SS , I think it can’t be called manual mode .
Manual mode if I’m not wrong is you have to do anything manually .
I think Fuji Cameras also did the same in it’s manual mode that is you have to pick ISO before anything goes further .
As for exposure compensation , once should know recompose techniques , yes in some difficult scene , it’s hard to get the right exposure but I usually manage to get it at the end so not really a problem .
GH4 is the only Pana camera so far where they allowed auto ISO in M mode. So there is progress in baby steps.
As for GX7 you can, however, control shutter speed and aperture with two dials and have ISO controlled manually from the touchscreen. To do so you press the camera icon on the right edge of the screen and choose ISO. Now you have an ISO control bar permanently attached oh the right side. Not a physical dial, of course, but a usable workaround.
I hope that with those controls of the LX100 they do support auto-ISO in full manual just like Fuji does.
The GH4 has auto ISO in manual mode, and it is a pita because then you cannot compensate exposure one way or the other. So no big deal there.
On the GX7 the ISO is on its own special little Nav button. Why do you want it on a wheel as well?
The GX7 basically has 3 dials, because you can press the back dial and it changes its function. This option is in my opinion not fully exploited: the only options I have for the dials are which one controls shutter, aperture or exposure. What I really want is the option to assign each dial a different function, based on the mode I am in. Basically FN button assignment.
The problem is also that these limited assignment options lead to duplication and waste (it’s possible that I am missing / misunderstanding some option here):
In A / S mode, my front dial controls A or SS, and the back dial controls exposure comp. However, pressing the back dial also brings me to exposure comp. In M mode, pressing the back dial does nothing (??). In manual focusing mode, where it toggles the magnification view.
Now it would make sense to be able to assign ISO on back dial press. The ISO button is actually quite a distance when you consider that you comfortably can have your finger on the back dial.
We do have a GX7 and I find it perfectly easy to use my thumb on the dedicated ISO button whilst holding it one handed. This is normal Panasonic practice. Even the GH4, which is what this thread is about, has an ISO button but this time on the top panel.
Once pressed the ISO on the GX7 can be adjusted by L/R Nav buttons or the rear thumb wheel.
The two wheels on the GX7 can be swapped around between the three aperture, shutter and EV functions, and can be used for other functions such as focus and navigation depending on what you’re doing.
The GH4 does indeed have a third one, a spinning disc in place of the Nav buttons and is a pain because it will be pressed in and change its function when you don’t want it to. Imo the Nav button system works better.
The GH4 does AEL in video mode. Have you actually tried it?
A big LOL, what this guy said, I said several times already. If you mess with the functions in the camera trying to make the image as flat as possible, you end up with a mess. So don’t blame the camera blame the lack of knowledge from the user side!
I get wonderful results with this camera up to ISO 4000 in 4K.
I’ve shot stills on the GH4 at ISO25600 that just look grainy rather than noisy. Not the best pics but sometimes grainy is good: special purpose but usable at ISO25600
@jefrs I was referring to 4K video only.
Great ! Nice, that you sold that many. I have one too.
What’s wrong with developing a 150mm or 200mm prime (as promised) that doesn’t do as well, commercially ?
Hey, Panasonic, a wide range of lenses sells cameras !!
Panasonic maybe was aware of Olympus’s plan to outdo its own SHG line with the new 40-150 product. Maybe they are reworking on their design. BUt what i read from online experience(Pen & Tell), the 40-150 beats the ZD 150 already, when both at 2.8, which says alot about the Olympus claim.
Matt is such an excellent spokesperson for Panasonic. He knows his technical stuff but you can tell he’s a genuine shooter at heart. He also doesn’t try the PR spin on everything to put it in a positive light.
I agree, he’s one of the best company spokespeople I’ve ever seen, for any company. He’s becoming the face of Panasonic.
I couldn’t agree more. He also fills me with confidence for the continued positive direction of the GH series.
Dumbo like Matt
Hey Panasonic,
I am in need of a 7-14mm WITH weather sealing. Your current lens is from march 2009 !
Question; Am i supposed to buy a 5,5 years old lens for 1049€ with an aperture of f4 ?
Frankly; i can’t justify such a purchase in any sensible way.
So, another question; Is Panasonic actually on the ‘right path’ by again postponing the 150mm f2.8, or canceling (nobody seems to know) and announcing an utterly useless 30mm macro ?!?!?!
We are talking about the right ‘right path’, right ? Not the seriously wrong ‘right path’ ?
Have you ever tried such a wide lens? It’s difficult. And stop smoking that rubbish.
indeed…the aperture values dont drop every year lol
Very funny. No weather sealing is pathetic for a lens in this price-range !
wake me up when you come up with another mft lens compaint. I am lazy right now 🙂
Oh, by the way; a f4 lens is a f8 lens on a full frame body. But you already knew that, right ?
Eh… 1049 € (= 1342 $) is still an OK price for a f8 lens ?
no ofcourse it not OK but thankgod its still a f/4 on MFT..or did you want to use the lens with an adapter on a 24×36 body?
It’s a f8 effectively.
http://youtu.be/DtDotqLx6nA
without goin into deeper techbinal approach(which makes no sense sometimes in practical use imo) it is depending how you think. in your case you think from a point of effective depth of field, this is just one aspect. if you shoot f/8 on 24×36 you get identical exposure with identical settings at any format. Thats why you can also say that f/4 is f/4, exposure wise.
LOL…
Only the bokeh looks totally different !
You can look at it the way you like.
The math is very simple;
100mm FF = 200mm m43
f4 FF = f8 m43
ISO 400 FF = ISO 800 m43
where did i say that there is no difference in looks/ rendering. where? and you should use DOF instead of bokeh because bokeh is more related to specific glass designs.
Huh ? That’s a good one !
So… Bokeh is a ‘à la carte’ thingy and it’s up to the lens-maker how that will look ? What kinds of Bokeh are available to them ?
That would be a cool thing. So Panasonic is able to make a 7-14mm f4 lens with massive amounts of bokeh if they so desire ?
bokeh can differ between two identical FL lenses from different brands. its that simple. try to read some on the internet.lots of good kind of bokeh is caused by the glass imperfections and/or mechanical construction. Look at Helios 40-2 or Voigtlaender Nokton 50mm 1.1. Unlike DOF, bokeh is a subjective matter mostly, what one finds funky “bokeh”, others call “nervous”
Anyway, f4 or f8 does not matter that much on a wide lens that one uses for landscapes anyway.
Needless to point out that landscapes usually are outside, and ‘outside’ is usually prone to changing weather. Changing weather might be an interesting part of the picture you take.
So we might agree on the fact that weather-sealing would come in handy as a landscape lens ? And on ANY lens carrying this price-tag !
sure can agree about the sealing
Shallow DoF occurs when the subject is close. Landscapes tend to be off in the distance.
We don’t tend to shoot landscapes when it is bucketing down because we can’t see anything. 35mm SLR lenses weren’t weather sealed and we didn’t have problems in foul weather or dragging them up and over mountains then, so I don’t understand the problem.
ISO 400 FF = ISO 1600 m43. The rest is right.
Thx. True. My mistake.
No he got that bit wrong when he was talking about noise, and so did you
For exposure ISO200 is ISO200.
That rule of thumb falls flat on its nose when you swap lenses.
Depth of field is largely determined by lens design. Take two different models of lenses of same focal length and they will have different depth of field, the construction is important. Switch focal length for FoV and you open a can of worms.
For the exposure, the important bit, the aperture is the same.
For the DoF you can double the f-number for the M43 to full frame.
DoF is something you got. You can use a DoF calculator but it will only be a geusstimate. Best to forget about DoF equivalent f-stops and use the LVF.
The trick with a full frame camera is to get enough DoF to keep the subject in focus, bokeh becomes a perishing nuisance.
Correct, the exposure is set on the aperture
For the exposure f/4 is f/4 on any format
But do note that f/4 is set by the focal length of the lens
If a picture is taken at 50mm f/2 on a full frame then we need to take the same picture on M43 with a 25mm lens but now watch what happens to get the same amount of light through the lens (I chose my words carefully) –
The iris of the 50mm is 50 / 2 = 25mm diameter.
The iris of the 25mm needs to be 25 / 25 = 1 i.e. f/1 aperture
This is for the same amount of light and would be for the exposure only if the sensors had the same area (N.B.)
But the M43 has half the image circle diameter as full frame so we need half the light and we go back up to f/2 to get the same exposure
yes that is a very precise approach. Mine is more comparable like when measuring light fallen on the object or subject like we did in the earlier days when keeping an external meter over a face to get the vakues needed. I did a similar approach during a shoot with both my E-M5 plus an old Bronica 6×6; I used multiple spotmeting(ok its not exactly the same as it measures reflected light values) on the models face and her body with the Olympus, and used the values for the bronica. at the lab they say the film was exposed very well.
You put your finger on a genetic problem of small sensors: true, this is equivalent to a F8 on FF, but it’s still expensive to build. Fast lenses are always expensive to build, and if one wants them, one has to pay bitterly. This often makes larger sensor systems more affordable.
I don’t mind paying a premium, IF it is a premium lens. Heck, even GOOD lenses are weather sealed !
The Canon 16-35 L II costs ‘only’ 300€ more. It’s a weather-sealed professional lens. One of the best wide lenses. If you would take that lens as a reference, the Panasonic is worth 600€ MAX. That would even cover the weather-sealing.
True.
No it isn’t. That is absolutely incorrect. The only thing that “is f8” in full frame equivalence is depth of field. When you’re shooting ultra-wide, how shallow are you expecting that to be?
I agree that a faster and weather-sealed UWA lens would be great. I also agree that the price could likely be lower on the 7-14mm f4. I strongly disagree with using misinformation to support your point.
Don’t believe me. Suit yourself. But it’s safe to believe Tony.
Twice the focal length means twive the aperture !
http://youtu.be/DtDotqLx6nA
I have seen that tutorial before but it is nearly 40 minutes long. It is important to watch it all the way through. He it attempting to disprove some myths and give us the correct information but he doesn’t always hit the mark. Which is a shame because otherwise it is pretty good. It does however come under the category of “lies for children”, by simplifying. The opening statements are not given as truth, double the f-stop gets disproved except for DoF. Watch it all the way to the end.
One of the first things he gets wrong is the signal to noise ratio, his ratio P/sqrt(P) = sqrt(P) which is the standard deviation for a single sample and he is trying to use it as the “detection limit” but it should be where the s.d. for noise and the s.d. for signal overlap and I’m afraid I cannot demonstrate that without a graph(chart) i.e. where the signal comes out of the noise. Suggested reading is Summerling and Darby. Until I retired I was running the ISO8769 international primary standard for photon emission rate, I’m a physicist and I can do the statistics.
What we need to know is how much noise the sensor is producing, the noise floor, and the larger a sensor gets, the more noise they make. Increasing the signal, the sample size, with more photons helps but it important to keep the noise down in the first place. That means the 4/3 sensor is proportionally quieter than a full frame but it receives less photon rays, it is a trade-off. There are advantages as well as disadvantages to using a small format than full frame.
If you are going to watch that video, and I recommend you do, then watch all 37:34 minutes of it.
LOL… You received a +1 !
You are not alone in the math-class 😉
Oh God another equivalency nonsense. Do yourself a favour: shoot more with the m43 and see for yourself what the system is all about and whether it really matters in real life shooting or not. Don’t just rely on paper specs.
An f/4 35mm lens is an f/4 lens on a/ M43 body.
f-number = focal length / iris diameter
Sensor format or crop factor has nothing to do with the aperture f-number.
Good for you. Well done !
I used to have the Canon 16-35, why ?
How refreshing to listen to someone who really know what he is talking about!
The Gh4 is overkill for my video, and like many others the IBIS tech is a superb crutch for those less experienced with being a cameraman.
I would love to see Olympus add some real video improvement to their next body. Better codecs, more frame rate options, better compression and better sound.
It will obviously get there, and will probably be troche on time for my learning to have caught up with the video tech.
Very interesting interview and really nice to hear him point out the GH4’s stills capability is so good. I did not buy my GH4 for video at all.
I feel I need to point out that the GH4 does /not/ have IBIS but that many of the lenses do have OIS which can be better than 5-axis IBIS in practical use. IBIS is the Olympus body/sensor stabilisation method not Panasonic.