On left the image quality of the [shoplink 29074]Olympus E-M5[/shoplink]. Ont he right the [shoplink 23568]Olympus E-P3[/shoplink].
Pekka Potka is doing an amazing job in these days and keeps us posted with all his findings about the new [shoplink 29074]Olympus E-M5[/shoplink]. The latest post includes an image comparison between the E-M5 and E-P3 (Click here to see it): “E-M5 is markedly better in every regard: sharpness, signal to noise ratio, dynamic range… . At higher ISOs E-M5 gains about two stop improvement. This result comes from new sensor with more resolution and better pixel per pixel quality, thinner low pass filter and impoved JPG processing.”
Of course these is a JPEG image comparison but Pekka promised to post some RAW comparison soon too! But looking at the results I really hope Olympus will update their PEN line soon. The difference is huge! Pekka also tested the Af speed with 4/3 lenses a (Click here) and explained the dial configuration on the E-M5 (Click here).
More E-M5 bits: A japanese test at Nikkei (Click here). Image samples at Itmedia (Click here) and Flickr (Click here). And first music clip made with the E-M5 on youtube (Click here). The video quality is good but the music is terrible 🙂
And here is the Full E-M5 Preorder list (Update with J&R links):
1) Black E-M5 body at
Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, J&R, Warehouse UK, Redcoon Germany and Amazon Japan.
2) Silver E-M5 body at
Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, J&R, Warehouse UK, Redcoon Germany, and Amazon Japan.
3) Black E-M5 body with 14-42mm lens at
Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto and J&R.
4) Black E-M5 body with 12-50mm lens at
Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, J&R, Jessops, Redcoon Deutschland, Amazon UK, Amazon Deutschland and Amazon Japan.
5) Silver E-M5 body with 12-50mm lens at
Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, J&R, Jessops, Amazon UK, Amazon Deutschland and Amazon Japan.
6) FL-600R wireless flash at
Amazon, Adorama and BHphoto.
7) MMF-3 Four Thirds adapter at
Amazon and Adorama.
8.) HLD-6 power battery holder at
Amazon, Adorama and Amazon Japan.
132 Responses
the Japanese music video can be viewed in 1080p too (something the Olympus E-M5 wasn’t suppose to be able to do)
It’s essentially 1080p, it’s just in an interlaced wrapper. Presumably the uploader converted beforehand or else Youtube just deals with it automatically.
I thought the video was awesome, music included 😀
would be nice if they did a D4 v E-M5 comparison just to embarrass Nikon…
Nikon will be more shock, than embarrass. 😀
(I have look image from D4 on ISO 25600) 😉
You can’t be seriously believing that, can you?
that would certainly be embarrassing
but i doubt the D4 would pick a fight with IQ-challenged cameras 😉
i don’t know why he shot in fine jpeg mode and not in super fine jpeg mode…
…because there is no meaningful difference? 🙂
My personal experience is that there’s no real difference.
I think there is a huge difference because a super fine jpeg is two time bigger in MB then a fine jpeg
Yeah, but for that I might as well work with raw
yes but if i want to check image quality and i can’t use raw the best option is super fine jpeg.
It has been discussed at long on many occasions at DPreview and the conclusion of the DPreview team is that the advantage is almost nix while it eat double the space.
…double space and no advantage…sound strange….can u link me to dpreview discussion, thx.
JPEG super-fine has small edge in resolution, but main reason is that it has much less compressed/reduced colors and its possible to certain extent recover shadows without too much noise. Simply – smaller amount of data was thrown away.
Using it depends how big difference is between that and RAW.
Make the search yourself if you want, Personnally I was convinced and changed my practice. I think it was Andy Westlake who took part to that discussion. May be that they do even have something about it in one of their tutorials.
i fully aggree that it is hard to find differences between LF and LSF bur when i indend to blow up a JPG i’ d use LSF.
The difference is only in JPEG compression which between those two can´t be seen in 100% images unless you do very drastic post processing. In principle I of course should have been using SF.
-p-
Whished it was done in RAW that would tell the truth, but another indication here that the EM5 is a clear step forward compared to EP3. I have a G3 which is better than EP3 (resolution + high ISO noice). Probably the EM5 has better IQ also compared to G3 and GH2 making it the best m43 stills photo camera so far.
The EM5 tics many of my requirements, technical and personal. I have issues with Oly user interface though. But – other cameras I am looking into also have their weak sides.
He’s going to post raw very soon.
Once you get into it the Oly UI is very good – and so configirable, if complex…
But then I never was a Mac guy 😉
The key is “so far.” I suspect (for no good reason ;-)) that we’ll be seeing some very fine cameras from Panasonic this year, as well as lenses. Its a good time to be getting into µ4/3’s.
Aliasing problems on the clip with the E-M5…
@sebfarges
can be corrected with anti aliasing bandlimiting filter in post???
edited:
I’ve just compared one of my slideshows before and after upload to youtube and only the version on youtube has aliasing (not the stills used or the final slideshow version before upload), so is the aliasing being caused by YouTube?
Youtube compresses things significantly, so you generally can’t tell much based on that (or rather, you can’t tell whether the artifacts were there initially or were introduced by youtube).
This sensor is certainly going to join the PEN family too.
The race is getting more and more interesting. I wonder what the V1/J1 camp is thiking about? They seem to be loosing steam.
Time for Canon to enter?
Canon has already lost the EVIL race. By coming in so late (5th system on the market), they have given up too much market and mind share.
Look at it this way, EVIL is becoming mature: people know what to expect. The market has already been divided into the top two, µ4/3’s and NEX. Nikon seems to be a distant 3rd. Pentax (both Q and K01) are non-starters. Its shaping up exactly the way one would expect after reading Ries and Trout (the 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing) (which anyone who is vaguely interested in business simply must read).
Canon will pick up some sales simply by virtue of being Canon, but EVIL is the DSLR market upside down, because the companies that were late to the DSLR party (Olympus/Panasonic, Sony (Minolta)) were first to come out with EVIL cameras. They won’t give up that lead easily.
In general, I was always of the opinion that Canikon can allow themselves to be late to the game, but now I would tend to agree – they are really late. Unless Canon has been working quietly on a mirrorless system and brings several cameras and several lenses at the introduction, it will be difficult for them.
Will check your book suggestion.
All that Canikon has to do is issue the same old D9100 Rebel XSi Turbo Diesel, or whatever their cameras are called, but without a mirror and with an EVF. Same bodies, same mounts, same lenses, but PDAF-on-sensor to take care of every problem that Olympus has.
And boom, they’re suddenly the leaders in mirrorless once again, having 90% of the DSLR market share and now 90% of the mirrorless market share.
Mirrorless isn’t about small cameras. It’s simply about cameras that don’t have a mirror. Nothing else. You can have a mirrorless camera the size of a D3X or 1DX, and you can have a mirrorless camera the size of a Pentax Q. It doesn’t matter the slightest.
My personal opinion is that just two things are holding Canikon back:
1) Canon may not have good PDAF-on-sensor yet (Nikon does)
2) Neither Canon nor Nikon think the current EVFs are good enough (and they aren’t, to be honest)
Give it a couple of years, until the first 2560×1920 (or so) EVFs appear. In current marketing speak, that’s going to be 15 megadots; the 1.4-2.4 megadot viewfinders today suck, resolution-wise and colour-wise.
You are so wrong on so many things its laughable.
Just the lack of understanding that the overwhelming majority of mirrorless buyers are attracted to the smaller bodies & lenses makes me realize once and for all that Booo is nuts!
As long as you’re not a squirrel, that’s okay.
People are attracted to m4/3 *as their second system*. Not their primary. There are such cases, but they are exceedingly rare.
But that has nothing to do with the fact that several years from now DSLRs won’t exist any longer and all cameras will be mirrorless. A simple Canon Rebel without the mirror would still sell like hotcakes and more people would choose it over a much smaller Canolympusonic camera.
You’re the one with head in the butt.
Mirrorless has sold with small body and lenses only because in Europe and North America hardly anyone else goes for current mirrorless designs!
You should take your head out of that tiny pocket cam smoke cloud and once in a while look whole camera markets:
http://www.pekkapotka.com/journal/2012/2/15/cipa-statistics-for-slr-and-mirrorless.html
Canon and Nikon haven’t really lost anything in Europe and NA. All they need to do is offer DSLR level ergonomy and controls mirrorless bodies with compatibility to their current lenses and they’ll have big part of mirrorless market.
And along with usual model update round with their resources they can easily start expanding line up to smaller bodies and just like with Nikon 1 you suddenly have people lining up to get one and forgetting Olympus and Panasonic.
But hey, at least mirrorless finally sells in whole world as much as DSLRs just in Europe!
The best camera is the one you have with you. Chances of carrying a smaller more compact camera are better, hence for most cases a smaller camera is better.
And if you really want to use ‘market share’ for proving your point, then the market share of compact cameras totally proves you wrong.
Most consumers want quality in a portable and affordable package. If a smaller type of camera can provide that as well as a bigger one, over time that smaller type of camera will ‘win’. The most prominent reason why this takes as much time as it does is because of people thinking that bigger is always better (which is often not true as soon as you define ‘better’ as a better match for the expected use instead of being obsessed with numbers)
Many DSLRs at the lower end of the market are sold to people who want better image quality then typical compacts provide, and who have been brainwashed to believe only DSLRs can provide that.
And no, spare us the needs of professional photographers, that totally doesn’t compare and is a small fraction of the market. They don’t buy entry-level DSLRs typically as a primary camera, and won’t buy current MILCs as a primary camera either, hence that is a totally silly argument.
Are we looking at the same stats? I think it is pretty clear what is going on. The mirrorless market is growing nicely and Canon is nowhere to be seen. Also, I would like to see you backing up your statement that “with Nikon 1 you suddenly have people lining up to get one and forgetting Olympus and Panasonic.”
As I see it, there are several things to consider. Many Canikon owners do buy NEX or m43 cameras as second bodies. That is actually a lost market. But, in that light, one might say, it would be very easy for Canikon to sway them back with their own mirrorless product. The problem is that with the introduction of more advanced models like the OM-D and NEX-7 things start to look a bit more difficult for Canikon. At some point (imho in less than 2 years), those two mirrorless systems will become very complete and what would Canikon propose to fight that? A bigger camera with a few more buttons, providing the same IQ? Everyone will catch up with faster AF, but the smaller sensor in the V1 will always be smaller.
Another thing is that the camera market is quite like the musical instrument market – difficult to adapt new technologies. But it slowly will. In Japan, where people adapt very quickly, you already see where’s the mirrorless at.
And I also think that the smaller the camera, the better. Unless you are shooting in a studio, with gloves or other very specific task, a camera that is comfortable to carry with you is a better choice. And that would be true for the majority of users. We can talk all day about studio requirements and whatnot, but the fact is that styles like street, landscape and travel photography are much more common and popular and they all benefit from a smaller package.
Right on.
But Canon just might pull a MILC rabbit out of the hat come Photokina. They just need time to figure out EVF and a mount to put on the G1X, and they will have a worthy contender.
Doesn’t mean that I will be swayed from m43, but the additional competition will be good for all of us.
I think that Canon goofed with the G1X : they chose a sensor of the right size, more or less the same sweet spot as mft, but they should have offered a new interchangeable lens system instead of a weak zoom.
As for your suggestion of a mirrorless camera the size of the actual EOS and with the same mount, it doesn’t make sense. Why taking the mirror away with all the problems but without the benefits of size ?
Still if Canon came in that market with a killer sensor and several good lenses, they may catch up, but as underlined, they are late to the party, may be too late.
Small size isn’t a benefit for a great many deal of people.
In fact, it is a problem for many, because the cameras are hard to handle due to six billion buttons and a giant LCD that need to be present on a small body.
Just as small size can be a problem, it can also be a blessing for when you want to pack lightly and still get some pretty high-quality photos. It is also a blessing for street voyeurs – I mean street shooters – because it looks like they’re casually using a cheap compact camera and won’t raise too many flags. Get a 2003-era DSLR out in a shopping mall and the guards will be on you in a minute. Get a 2011 E-P3 out and nobody will care the slightest.
I carry my two E-3s with the good lenses when I’m serious about shooting.
I carry my E-510 with the 25mm pancake or the 14-42 when I’m not. I’d gladly replace that combo with a small m4/3 camera, but I still have many good lenses to spend money on.
What re you complaining about ?
Are there not enough big and fast focusing DSLRs around to make you happy ? What are you looking for here if what you want is a bigger camera ? I don’t understand !
This is 4/3 rumors. I’m here because I own 4/3 equipment. And I’m not complaining about anything, except the lack of an E-7 as of yet. When it comes out, I’ll have nothing to complain about.
Yes it is a big deal and advantage for the large majority of people because they can have their camera with them a lot more often, resulting in more opportunities for pictures, and actually having the camera with you when needing it, even if that need was unexpected.
It isn’t for specific users and specific applications.
Your personal needs are totally not representative of ‘a great many deal of people’.
Mobile phones have cameras. The XZ-1 is tiny and has a bright zoom that doesn’t even exist in m4/3 world. I don’t see a problem here. I would personally like to own an XZ-1 much more than any m4/3 body, because it’s truly pocketable, but that’s just me.
And phones nor a XZ-1 can provide an image quality approaching what is possible with m4/3, so if you happen to have any requirements with regards to IQ, your ‘solution’ doesn’t work too well.
That ‘faster zoom’ of the XZ-1 is easily compensated by a bigger sensor with better low-light performance, and due to its size with better DOF control. The XZ-1 and similar compacts need those fast zoom lenses to compensate for their small sensors and lack of interchangeable lenses.
Not to mention, an E-PM1 with the Lumix 20mm 1.7 nicely fits my coat pocket, and no, no compact currently exists below $1000 that can hold a candle to it with regards to IQ, and none can with regards to flexibility.
But what you really don’t seem to get is that the world isn’t black/white, and different people have different needs, and hence require different compromises.
I personally happen to carry around an E-3 almost always.. so even with a DSLR it seems totally possible to always carry it with you and have your camera at hand when needing it… but very very few people are prepared to always carry about 1kg of extra equipment for that. Many more are prepared to carry about 1/3 of that weight if it also easily fits in their bag/backpack/suitcase and can provide the required IQ and flexibility.
It is all about compromises, and different situations ask for different compromises.
Usually, when you fail to see the usefulness of a specific compromise, that just means you never encountered or appreciated the situation for which that compromise is optimized.
@Booo! You make a valid point, but you are approaching it with only your biases in mind. You are right in many ways, but wrong as well.
Mirrorless is fundamentally different in two ways from most DSLRs.
1. WYSIWYG, via the LCD and EVF ( and the EVFs are good enough already, for me)
2. Size. Sony has already demonstrated to most m43 users that the APSC sensor route doesn’t allow for significantly smaller lenses, and so cameras with such sensors lose a significant size advantage.
The good thing is that mirrorless can and will be many things to many users. But I really can’t see Canikon taking 90% of the mirrorless market, unless they basically copy m43 and do it better. M43 is at the sweet spot of size and peformance, it has the first foot in the door, it has multiple companies on board. Momentum counts for one hell of a lot.
Do you think there will be new cameras *with* a mirror ten years from now? No. Every new camera will be mirrorless at that point in time, probably even sooner.
If there’s no mirror, there’s no DSLR, simple as that; the entire market of what we call “DSLR” today disappears.
As for the lens sizes… Pentax makes a 9mm tall 40mm f/2.8 pancake, and their sensors are APS-C. Apart from the pinhole “lens” for m4/3, tell me, which m4/3 lenses extend just 9mm from the body? 😉 It’s not as simple as it seems. It’s perfectly possible to make small APS-C lenses, but it’s just that Sony utterly sucks at doing so.
P.S. While we’re on the subject of Sony – it has already phased out mirrors and their new FF camera(s) will keep the bulk and lens compatibility, but won’t have a mirror and a pentaprism. So, is a huge big giant FF camera without a mirror still a DSLR?
I think you are right Boo, but I have said before that what we call an “SLR” now for technical reasons (because it they employ a Single Lens Reflex system) will still be called an “SLR” in the future for practical reasons… to distinguish big(ger), heavy(er), more substantial bodies from the lightweight, in your pocket sized cameras that MILF* systems (currently) dominate.
*Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Format (not my invention, tho I wish it were) 🙂
Mirrorless doesn’t HAVE to mean “small”, but it *allows* small. Just as SLR doesn’t HAVE to mean “big and heavy” (compare an E620 to an E5, for example). But, currently, the advantages of mirrored appeal primarily to those for whom big(ger) and heavy(er) isn’t an issue (and is arguably a benefit when looking to ergonomically mount big, heavy lenses).
But as Mirrorless technology catches up, those advantages will disappear and mirrorless has advantages of it’s own. At that point there is no reason why those big, heavy bodies should not then go mirrorless too.
Exactly that.
My only point was that several years from now Canikon *will* have 80-90% mirrorless market share, simply because there will be no cameras with mirrors, thus no DSLR market 🙂
I’d even say they’re in a better position than Panolympusony because they will have full lens compatibility and won’t need to create a second mount with a shorter flange distance and a set of new lenses; just produce small, cheap, feature-crippled bodies the size of current m4/3 or NEX cameras, sell cheap adapters, and market the bigger bodies as upgrades.
Canon is immensely popular in the enthusiast market over here where I live due to a very simple reason: their 50mm f/1.8, as bad as it is, can be bought used for about 50-60€. You can get BOKEH!!! with that lens, which enthusiasts love. Now imagine what happens if Canon floods the market with 200€ mirrorless cameras and discounts that lens so that it’s 60-70€ new… Ugh.
I wouldn’t be surprised if by the end of the year we started seeing the first prosumer mirrorless cameras (in DSLR-styled bodies) from Nikon.
@Boooo!
You may own 4/3 gear but you obviously know little about m4/3 and its advantages over 4/3, so your prognostications really don’t rate. The future consumer system camera market will be owned by the same electronics giants that bring you all your electronic toys, not Canon, Nikon, Ricoh, Olympus, Fuji or any of the Japanese “camera” companies that have dominated for the last 40 years. Those that hang in there will do so because of their imaging products diversification (think copiers, printers, scanners).
Not until those electronic companies start being capable of designing and producing sufficient quality optics.
(looks like I clicked the wrong reply link.. meant to reply to pdc)
“1) Canon may not have good PDAF-on-sensor yet (Nikon does).”
—-
Do they really? I haven’t seen a single picture in the World Wide web that has got what it takes to confirm this claim. To date, I believe that it’s just marketing babble but nothing else.
Here you go:
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/galapagos-focus-testing.html
You are welcome 🙂
@Boooo!
Here you should really go:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kimphoto/
You are even more welcome 😀
The E-5 has PDAF and those photos have been taken with a lens that will probably never appear in m4/3 form. What’s your point?
That reading completely misses the point of EVIL, which is compactness. The registration distance will keep the lenses and bodies big, relative to µ4/3’s and NEX, as this image makes clear:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/olympusEM5/images/comparedtoRebel.jpg
This looks promising… however what we’re looking at is very high frequency detail and JPEG. I’m sure the sensor is way better than the old one but we’re seeing is also very aggressive NR (like Panasonic’s IR).
It’s at least one stop better but before thinking it might be two look at the soft gradations below the ISO label. They will show a reality closer to the truth.
The test is with Noise Reduction ‘Off’. Can we assume it’s Noise Filter, because that’s what it’s called in Olympus cameras? ‘Noise reduction’ is the long exposure hot pixel removal.
Yes, both OFF. Thanks for heads up. I corrected it in my text.
-p-
Which just shows that noise reduction “off” isn’t really off with the E-M5.
If true, I don’t care. The result looks great and much better than previous m4/3 cameras.
IMO, it’s still too much noise reduction and sharpening going on at those minimum settings.
Wow! Thanks PP! Not 2 stops difference, but almost. I’d safely use it at ISO 3200.
“I really hope Olympus will update their PEN line soon.”
Definitely.
Now, give me that sensor, E-M5 EVF, IS and 1/250 flash sync speed, E-PL3 screen, E-P3 ISO 100, touch focus and large grip, E-PL1/2 bounce flash, add focus peaking and I’ll be happy ’till 2020. At least :).
The ugly fact is no manufacturer wants you to be happy (with only one product) for a long time like that.
🙂
Yeah, I shouldn’t have given away the year. Damn, I’ll never get that now ;).
Wonderful – but I, and probably many more – wonder the same thing:
Low-iso-dr?
I have probably 80% of my shots at iso 200.
+1
+1.
+1
+100000000000000000
To me, 6400 on the OM looks damn near 1600 on the Pen. I’d call that 2 stops. 🙂
Yes, and this is a test that looks at high contrast detail. Even the PENs are not that bad at it compared to APS-C cameras. Where they lag more is the rendering of shadow areas: blotches and smearing galore. Let’s hope Pekka does some other tests as well…
Sample tests at high ISO have already shown the shadow areas now show more detail. I think both sets of those samples have now been removed from the internet on the websites they were on. One were Raw samples and the other Jpegs. At the time I downloaded them and they did show much more detail in the shadows. To give you an idea in low light 6400 showed slightly more detail in the shadows than 1600 on a Pen. So again. This comes back to this 2 stop difference. I shoot a lot of theatre productions so am use to high ISO and it was the most detail I have seen so far from an 43 sensor in shadow areas.
I’de agree – I would say ISO 6400 is a hair better than ISO 1600 on the PEN!
Lovely… about as good as yesterdays FF sensors, can’t be bad!
all good news, both the test pics and the video, “..the music is terrible”? well not my kind of taste either, but i would not call it bad, not at all..
I tried to publish reference to 12 pictures using E-M5 final firmware a while ago, but sometimes it seems like this list doesn’t accept web links… Google What Digital Camera.
THANKS
I guess this is good, I seem to be the only one not completely happy, it’s a definite step forward but i’m picky, using ISO 400 on my E-P2 is the highest i’ll go, from the little I can see and draw conclusions, I think I might use ISO 800 on the EM5. Not that I expected miracles, I just think it’s worth waiting another 2 years for visible real world differences rather than spend money that could towards trips and glass for the time being.
The only thing that would tip me over the edge is a real world jump in DR, otherwise I think the EM5 is great, it’s just not the right time for me to jump at it.
I wonder, if you really need the increase in DR, i mean the ability to show as much as possible grey tones(from black to white)in one captured image.It would result in a rather dull image because of lower contrast, PP would result in a loss of a few stops again anyway, due to raising the contrast up again. I prefer a wide headroom in RAW for recovering data in both hilight or shadow areas, but not necesarily the need to show all levels in one photo.
I come from a Canon SLR (everyone comes from some sort of SLR I suppose), I noticed right away that the DR is somewhat limited on my E-P2, just not enough for me to be swayed. It’s the smoothness in the transitions, hence why I shoot on my TLR medium format beast from time to time also. Contrast levels are nothing to be concerned with since I PP any image I like, yes I likely reduce the DR, but I reduce it to my liking, not the cameras, obviously it’s better to have the option in your hands. DR is really my main concern, though I have to say i’ve had one sneak peak at the D800 and i’m amazed by it, perhaps megapixels are worth it, unfortunately there’s no chance i’d go for it for so many different reasons.
I’m pleased to see the video. While there are some artifacts, they might be the fault of youtube. And of course, the style and subject of the video would tend to mask certain types of problems. Still, the first impression it gives is that the camera can do competent video; nothing bad really jumps out and slaps you in the face. If Olympus had some sort of hand in the production, I’m doubly pleased, since it would show that they’re starting to treat video as more than just an afterthought. It would be better though if they would release official sample videos along with stills when the camera is introduced, and treat them with care (use vimeo in preference to youtube, make the uncompressed footage available, etc.) If only they could get their frame rates sorted (at least 24p should be possible, since the sensor does 30p).
looks decent in jpg, i expect around a half stop of better performance in raw…
so nothing major, but ok considering sensor size, and price of the camera
comparing it to FF nikons, you gotta be kidding me even old D700 beats this by a hundred miles
people seem to forget that FF has another pixel quality in general, cannot be compare to smaller sensor cameras or aps-c, same as medium format digital beats the pants off Fullframe
Man there’s a lot of “beating” going on in your post 😉
Well, that´s the only reason Ru Elpser is here.
its indeed pathetic that some people have nothing better to do.
False i m here because i will run the omd as second portable system besides nikon fx, i love oly cameras, we just need to stay realistic. I wouldn t bother with aps c either for me 43 is
Much better, but FF is another world imo
People saying that FF is the best and blablabla are always people who CAN’T affort to buy that type of camera (which I call dreamers). So why bother?
And medium format is yet another world…
It all depends on what you want/need.
For example, for my day to day usage, an E-3 beats a D700 by much more then a 100 miles because:
– it is much more portable especially when needing ‘tele capabilities’, and hence its much more likely to be with the photographer when a photographic opportunity arrises.
– its weather sealing is much better, making it usable in heavy rain (a common condition for me, but that is totally due to where I happen to live).
But… that is rather because of the intended use and climate.
Just like the D700 can beat your medium format camera easily, depending on the exact situation and use.
Arguing that FF is superior by definition however is just as narrow-minded as arguing that large format is superior by definition. Neither are true outside a very limited definition of ‘superior’.
Exactly.
That is why I am selling of my E-5 and some 2.0 lenses and buy a FF camera. I will keep my GH2 for film and shooting when it must light and small.
The latest Nikon FF beat the pants out of the D700 (I expect so, although no testing seen yet) and so will the soon to be announced 5d mark III. On image quality the E-system is far behind.
If Olympus or panasonic would release some long glass in micro 4/3 like 300/2.8 300/4 400/5.6 and 400/4 35-100/3.0, then this system would become very attractive as a lightweight and cost effective wildlife system. The trade off with the IQ of FF CaNikon would become very interesting. There are so many shooters out there that carry 10.000 euro heavy beasts around. If micro 4/3 could deliver a lightweight alternative (including fast focustracking etc) than the system becomes very competitive.
So you nickname is FFphoto after here. 😉
I can belive you go to FF for five year since, but not no 😀
Simple physics tells you there is no such thing as a “lightweight” 300/2.8 lens for m4/3. There’s a reason the current tele lenses are so slow on the long end, it’s because they either must be that slow or so large to negate any size advantage of the camera.
A 300/2.8 on a 4/3 system is still a lot smaller and lighter then something that provides similar field of view and illumination/brightness on a fullframe camera, hence the 4/3 system as well as the micro 4/3 system are in theory very attractive for nature photography.
Smaller glass with more usable DOF for a given field of view.
In practice? well, go look in nature photographers groups on flickr or such and see for yourself.
Well, a test in the latest Amateur Photography indicates (to me) that Canon 5D MkII gives considerably better pictures than the Sony A77 — which is a couple of years newer.
Anyway — the m43 cameras are compromise cameras! — good image quality (not necessarily excellent, but as good as is possible), in a format (size/weight) which I will use in practice.
Can you link to that test, please, tried to find it, but wasn’t successful…
You probably have to buy it :-). With iPad, you can download the Zinio app and buy an electronic version of it.
Arghhh…. 🙂
BLI
FF cameras are also a compromise!!!…have you ever compared the picture qulity with the medium formats.
to quote you FF is -” — good image quality (not necessarily excellent, but as good as is possible), in a format (size/weight) which I will use in practice.”
What holds true for m43 also holds true for APS and FF and even medium format. These are all compromises!!!
I agree on that — also APS and FF are compromises. What I wanted to say is that even though APS and FF have better sensors, personally I prefer m43 because they have good enough image quality (ok — acceptable image quality) are are light enough so that I use it.
“What I wanted to say is that even though APS and FF have better sensors, personally I prefer m43 because they have good enough image quality (ok — acceptable image quality) are are light enough so that I use it.”
—-
I really wonder when the fairytale that a sensor alone is responsible for the IQ will disappear where it belongs to: on the dump!
It’s the package that counts and a FF combo delivering the same IQ and sharpness – throughout the frame – as the E-5 (and even more so the E-M5) with the SHG Zuikos will be far heavier, bigger and far far more expensive. In addition, you will have to stop the FF lenses down to achieve a useable DOF area – and even if you should have purchased such a combination (if available at all) the theoretical advantage is gone again.
I d rather say the whole SHG lens and E5 thing is an (expensive) fairytale, rent a ff camera with some good primes to see the difference, my e5 and SHG setup was overall much more expensive and bigger than the FF i m using now
wel it just depends how much “quality” do you need. choose from a smartphone style sensor up to large format studio cameras. (M)FT is pretty much high up the ladder IMHO.
Forget the camera, where do you buy the album????
Pervert!
3 stops improvement if you ask me. Easily usable at ISO 6400, whereas E-P3 can be problematic in the shadows at ISO 1600.
Unnaturally bad music.
But Peter Piper Pekka Potka jpegs!
A peck of pegs Pekka Potka posted…
Very alliterative. 🙂
No, only poetical. 😉
Well, alliteration is a key poetic trick 🙂 (words starting with same/similar consonant e.g b-p, g-k, d-t, or different vowel). Alliteration is the standard “rhyme” in older germanistic texts/poems (Old English, Old Norse, etc), while end rhymes where more common in Latin based languages.
Anyway, All the Eager Owls are Keen to Ken the Latest Log of Pekka’s Pruned and Thorough Tests. Alliteration? Yes. Poetry? Well, maybe not quite :-).
What a good place 43 rumors is to learn about all things of a literary nature and to stimulate the brain. 🙂
Yes good we have teachers as BLI. 😀
A good photographer must be a poet :-).
This cracked me up XD. I’ve often thought of this when visiting the site.
Peter Piper could have played a Pekka Potka Polka?
@Bob B.:
When All My Five and Street-smart Senses See
The Latest Lovely Lustrous Tests of Thee
And Oh, My-Dee, Then Even Bobby Bee
Invigorates his Old Olympic Leap
And Boldly Blends the Roaring Reap
Of Piper’s Polka Poking Peep
—
(Apologies to Dylan Thomas.) Poetry? Perhaps… 🙂
LOL!
That’s a shocking difference. I get more excited about this camera every day.
On Dpreview m4/3 forum Jogger>Capture 3 in “another lens mount thread” posted a similar chart comparison between the EP3, the GH2, and the NEX7. On this comparison at lowest ISO the GH2 had EV of 11.2 at 180 ISO, EP3 was 10EV at 120 ISO and NEX7 was 12.3 EV at 50 ISO while at ISO 1600 the EP3 7.4 EV compared to 3200 on the GH2. So the GH2 with similar results to the G3/GX1 is 2 stops faster than EP3 at low ISO and 1 stop faster at 1600 ISO based on that chart.
Looking at the Dpreview high ISO comparisons again it looks like these OM-D results closely parallel the results seen from the G3 and GX1.
The only thing is though at high ISO the EM-5 is showing to be 2 to just over 2 stops better rather than 1 stop. That is not just based on this test either.
Granted but using Dpreveiws comparometer picture and other reviews pictures I would say the G3/GX1 also looks 2 stops better at high ISOs.
But before you said one stop not two… so 1 or 2 stops at high iso? Plus dpreviews test are with noise reduction switched on and everyone knows the default settings for noise reduction are set very high on the EP3. The camera is capable of much better when the noise reduction is taken off default noise reduction settings and set up correctly. The two Panasonic cameras you mentioned have less aggressive default noise reduction settings. What was good about this test was it was done properly by switching noise reduction off on both cameras which allows any truer difference to be seen.
Yes.
Congratulations Olympus, you just caught up with the back of the field.
I think the point is that m43 has been so far behind mainstream that any catchup looks dramatic.
Basically, the sensors have been held back too long. This one looks good, but even so, it’s not a leap ahead, it’s a catch up.
Please don’t stop there and leave us behind again. m43 needs technically better sensors than it’s larger frame rivals, not worse or even equal.
Hi,
Anyone got a recommendation for an Intervalometer for the PEN E-P3?
I’d like a recommendation for an Intervalometer which was tested with the EP3.
Thanks.
I bought the TM-J for the E-PL2. Assuming the E-M5 uses the same standard USB connector, it should work with the E-M5 too.
http://www.jjccamera.com/products.asp?id=0&pid=1&s_series=all&s_brand=OLYMPUS&page=2
http://www.amazon.com/Control-24AUP-S2-Alkaline-Microfiber-Cleaning/dp/B004058W7E
Wow, this looks promissing indeed 🙂
You can also preorder E-m5 in Scandinavia
http://www.dustinhome.no/ or .se or .dk
I remember back to 2009 when E-P1 come, and then use raffle ticket for which so can sell, camera. 😉
Need better dynamic range at low ISO, this is a glaring deficiency in MFT that has held me back from fully converting over. At LEAST 12EV, preferably 12.5 or more, using DXOMark benches.
So far the EM-5 is showing better DR at lower ISO. You might have missed the DR test that was posted the other day.
Thanks, I saw those estimates, but for my purposes, JPEG doesn’t count. I’ll wait for the RAW DXOMark metrics.
I hope you’re saving your pennies 😉
I’m know I’m spoiled from my Nikon DSLR’s DR which stomps all over my GF2’s DR, but come ON already, Panasonic or whoever built the OM-D sensor! If Sony simply truncated their NEX-7 sensor to MFT size, it would have about 14.4MP and keep its excellent DR. If Sony can do it, Panasonic can, too, with enough resources thrown at it.
I don’t know what the point of that new review of the Olympus 17mm is about?
There are already many reviews of the 3/4 year old Lens that tell us it isn’t great.
The review compares them to the two new Oly Primes and then concludes that it doesn’t hold up to the new Lenses. . . . . Yeah no Sh*$.
Then he goes on to talk about a sad lack of compact Pancake Lenses for M43. . . . saying also that Panasonic has no compact pancakes !!?
What is this reviewer smoking???
Hi there, I check your new stuff like every week.
Your writing style is awesome, keep it up!