After weeks of so many good Olympus reviews and positive feedbacks I summed three bad news all in one single post:
1) Marketwatch reports that “Olympus will likely post a larger-than-expected loss when it announces results for the fiscal year ended in March later Thursday“.I guess soon we will also know if Olympus will be forced to join a partnership with Fuji or Sony. I hope Olympus will manage it to remain independent!
2) Not all about the E-M5 is sooo great: Karl (at personal view) demonstrates how the GH2 is better than the E-m5 when it comes to analyze the video quality.
3) And it seems the camera has some banding issue too! Read the thread at Dpreview (Click here). UPDATE: It looks like the problem only occurss with the Panasonic 20mm lens!
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P.S: Small good news at the end of this article: New XZ-1 firmware update at Olympus Japan (Click here).
55 Responses
No, I don’t believe it is not perfect. Next review please.
Nobody said it was perfect. If you’re not happy, eBay it. You might even make money.
I’ve had the banding issue on my E-M5 with the 20mm.
It has happened on two different situations, and this is what was the same among the two situations:
– Both were while using the E-M5 with the Panasonic 20mm.
– Both were shooting indoors with fluorescent lighting AND natural light coming in through the windows.
– Each time I could see horizontal bands (about 1/4th the height of the screen) on the EVF and the LCD.
– When I took a photo when the band was visible, it would NOT appear in the actual photo (even when viewed on the camera).
As it hasn’t affected any of my photos as yet, and has only happened in very specific situations, I’m not all that concerned. But it was very concerning at the time as I thought I was going to have to send my less-than-a-week-old camera back!
GH3 please.
That is not the same banding issue.
Your kind of banding is caused my frequency of the light. Point it at an LCD.
On DPreview it was showing in the pics.
The DPR thread was exactly about LED light, natural light etc. provoking banding with a 20mm.
@ S’s GH3 comment.
+100. I’m sick of reading about the E-M5.
+ A Zillion….
Yeah, GH3 or LX6 or XZ2 or G5 or 12-35mm and 35-100mm lenses or … Or … Or …
+100 to the Mr. Reeeeee’s list.
@Redkite
Then stop reading this and go out and shoot some serious shit. 😉
Then next week come back, have a look again, and if it still doesn’t interrest you, shoot some more shit out there. 😛
I mean please, stop reacting in these posts if they don’t interrest you.
where is the surprise? of course the gh2 is the better video tool, it is disappointing that there is no 60 frame or 24/25 frame possibility at thie waterresist actioncamera. but wait until it is hacked…
People will often see what they want to see. The guy posting the video “test” mentions that its recorded at 17MBit/s – shouldn’t such a test be done at the highest setting of 20MBit/s if you want to minimise compression artefacts? In some ways comparing video is much more difficult than stills. I’ll listen to views from someone that actually has experience in video, not some chump using his friends camera for the first time at default settings.
Yeapp
+10000000000
You really think that 3MBit/s will level that much of a difference? Certainly not!
(And BTW: The comment at personal-view clearly states that the OM-D was operated by the guy who owned it.)
When it comes to video, small differences in settings such as color profiles used, compression and shot settings make a very big difference. Obviously the Hacked GH2 is great for video, but its too early to write off the OM-D, and I wouldn’t do it or make too many conclusions based on this sort of test.
The GH2 is better for video. Especially when hacked. Personally I don’t care. If I’d wanted outstanding video, I would have bought a GH2.
Admin, your links don’t work well with redirecting.at in your RSS feed.
+1 !!
always a pain to read 43rumors from a feed reader!
So, it’s not the camera, it’s the lens:
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“Re: OM-D EM-5 – High Iso Banding? NEW [SIMILAR]
JL Auch – 3 days ago
Okay. I have done extensive testing today to try and get to the bottom of this. I tested many variables. The best that I can come up with is this:
It seems to be related to the halogen light and/or electric box above the couch, that creates some sort of interference when the light is on. When I turn off the light, no banding with the 20mm. Also the banding seems most pronounced at 1/60sec and 1/30sec but it is still there at other shutter speeds.
Here is the kicker; I swapped lenses to the 14-42 kit lens, and bang! NO banding with the lights on at either 1/60sec or 1/30sec. The exact same lighting, tripod position, iso, and settings.
So I think cbran might be onto something. But if this is true, it is a real shame. The 20mm is a real gem of a lens and this is simply ridiculous.
I’ll leave you to your own conclusions.
But what to do now? Return the 20mm lens?
-j”
No, it’s the Camera/Lens combination. Unless someone finds the same issue with the 20mm and some other camera.
The specific light box and shutter speed combination might be the cause. Our electric system has a 50-60Hz frequency, which corresponds to 1/50s 1/60s. Our eyes normally don’t pick it up, but devices can.
That still does not explain why suddenly banding would appear, nor only with the 20mm on the E-M5. But on the other hand, too many possibilities have not been ruled out by real testing (e.g. in the description above, it does not say whether the 14-42mm was set to the same focal length).
What we do know by now is that the E-M5 sensor is pretty darn good. We’ve seen images being pushed by as many as 5EV and still holding together very well. In all those tests, no banding was visible. That leads me to conclude it’s not likely to be the regular banding related to sensor readout. (otherwise it would appear in all underexposed shadows and regardless of the lens).
+50-60
Talk to Panasonic by 20mm lens also, maybe them need take a look on this.
Sony or Fuji absorbs Olympus!!!
While I had some huge banding with my GH1 (even at 100 iso when lighting the shadows) I’m very happy that I never noticed any banding with my EM-5, even if I insanely light the shadows there is no banding…EM-5 sensor is far better to my eyes with really more DR and above all a better noise pattern without shitty banding.
Olympus, partner with Sony? Has anyone seen the latest financial reports on Sony Corp.
They have been losing billions for years?
agree!
Well, it looks like I don’t need to lose any sleep over this lot of negatives. I’m still waiting in anticipation for my silver OM-D.
So, issue 1). isn’t related to the camera at all, issue 2). GH2 has the best video out there for a camera and issue 3). seems to be a lens one.
Seems to me the OM-D is still doing great.
Banding. Oh no. I agree with the post from Rasmus above. It isn’t a lens issue. It is a lens AND camera issue. I guess this is what happens in the digital age when different companies share a camera platform.
Hopefully the issue is something simple and can be explained and rectified easily. In none of my readings here or on DPR did I see any info as to whether Olympus has been presented with the issue. The Pany 20mm is a pretty damn popular lens. I own one….and someday may own an OM. This is an interesting development. The Canon 5D Mark III and the Nikon D800 have had their share of issues, too!
Since I don’t care for video and the banding problems are only visible with the 20mm at ISO 1600 and higher (and still you have to up the contrast quite a few to make it visible) those negatives aren’t going to have a great impact.
Since the E-M5 is rumored to have a very weak Bayer filter, I was expecting a lot more banding complaints than what we have seen up untill now.
If the banding only occurs with the 20/1.7, isn’t it most likely something that Olympus can/should fix with a firmware upgrade?
Partners… Why not Apple or Microsoft? They have the money, they have knowledge in IT/user interfaces. They don’t have competing products. On the other hand, they are perhaps more cynical wrt killing products. And chances are a Japanese company will be preferred by the board/owners.
(There were some suggestions that Apple should buy Sony some months ago. If A. is interested in TVs, etc, that might make more sense. Microsoft is perhaps more into medical business with a software platform for medical equipment, etc (together with GE?). But none of them are likely candidates. The best solution might be O continuing as an independent company.)
If the banding only occurs with he 20mm/1.7 can it be caused by the electronic connection between lens and camera (eg interference or to high current demand by the focus motor) ?
Why not Apple or Microsoft? Because the camera business is only a very small part of the entire Olympus corporation. Around 70-80% of the company is in the field of medical devices (Olympus is the market leader in endoscopes by a large margin). Therefore, it’s more likely that other companies with complementary or competing businesses will be interested in Olympus. Sony and Fuji are two of those, and some other companies were also named. But Sony and Fuji would not really care too much about the Olympus cameras. That part might even be sold on (in case of an acquisition).
Microsoft’s venture into the health industry: http://www3.gehealthcare.com/en/Products/Categories/Healthcare_IT/Joint_Venture
Microsoft has also supported apps/equipment development for making the Windows phone a medical sensor/terminal. Bill Gates has shown interest in global health problems (but perhaps more in poorer countries).
Still, I don’t believe A and M are interested, though: I think it is too far from their business interests.
Partnering with a software company would sound like a great idea.
While the camera itself is just great (got my silver one at Friday 😀 ), the menu interface is conceptionally very outdated. Any software company today would be able to make an interface that is faster, more informative, and doesn’t require a 100 page manual. Coining numerous Olympus specific terms in the menu without explanation (I’m coming from a GH13), and a number of very weird translations and double negative options (image series + IS Off – On…) are just two obvious examples.
The banding could well be caused by the level of automatic correction that the camera or raw software is applying for this particular lens.
These Banding are very similar to what i got on RAW files on a GH1 with a 28mm leica elmarit on 1600 iso during a project.
I’ve also seen them in the very dark areas in the em5 DPreview studio shots at 3200 iso.
Regarding paragraph 2:
Same thread just a few postings before – original_joao sums it up 🙂
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/60967#Comment_60967
Hi, Guys,
I just had the chance to keep an EM-5 in my hand while visiting Drupa Düsseldorf (during Fotokoch-Fototäge).
What can I say? The camera is even more beautiful than as you might think based on published images (at least the silver version), the display is gorgeous, the focus speed is really fast. The only big pain in the ass is the tilting display, it’s very uncomfortable and hard to operate compared to the one you can see on G3.
By the way I haven’t managed to resist and have bought the 45/1.8. 🙂
You weak, weak person 🙂 Congrats, and enjoy!
@ Admin, you could have included the video i send you showing the artifacts with fast motion. :/
I’ll bet it was those horrible Strap Lugs that caused the banding. And the not-better-than-GH2 video, … yep, it was the strap lugs too. And the bad financial results? Yep, has to be.
Damn you, E-M5 strap lugs!! 🙂
Anyone know if it is safe to update my XZ-1 from the Japanese site? I don’t want all of my menus to suddenly be in japanese 🙂 also, anyone able to decipher what this update does?
I had similar issues with my 20 mm previously, but by not using a lens filter anymore and stopping down in overly bright situations, the problems have not reoccurred. I’ve used it on both EPL2 or EM5.
“Olympus will likely post a larger-than-expected loss when it announces results for the fiscal year ended in March later Thursday“.
On the slightly positive note (for Olympus), Sony and Panasonic are not doing well either. Sony (stock) slide to three-decade low and Panasonic posted a record annual loss, of $9.7 billion.
http://news.yahoo.com/sony-shares-slide-7-percent-32-yearr-low-045719109–finance.html
“How the GH2 is better than the E-m5 when it comes to analyze the video quality.”
Of course. Other than a reportedly better IS, E-M5 has no better video specs compared to the two-year old GH2. Olympus has not emphasized E-M5 video either.
The banding issue has made me think twice about getting the E-M5 as I already own the 20mm 1.7.
It’s just a shame there’s no alternative to this lens from another manufacturer. I could always get the 25mm 1.4 but it doesn’t have the “take everywhere and use for everything” appeal of the 20mm. I’ll probably still get the E-M5 and just see what happens. Some people have reported not having banding issues with this lens/camera combo so maybe I’ll get lucky. I’ve never been a particularly lucky person though.
I assume by your comment the Sigma 19mm is to slow for your, that can be my only conclusion as it is otherwise a superb lens, if a little bigger than the 20mm.
Admin, from my use with the em5 I have only noticed banding at ISO 12800 and 25600. (any lens). At ISO 12800 is somewhat small and rare. At ISO 25600 it happens much more but it still looks different than the banding of older models- its smaller and the areas where it happens seems to be where it happens- not like say the e-5 where pulling those shadows was risky.
So I imagine that the 20mm pancake if that is banding could be a weird light shutter interaction. In general the banding at higher isos to me in the case of the em5 is virtually a
Non issue thanks to the Olympus/Panasonic fast primes, for the night shooting I like to do
Some observations on the 20mm E-M5 banding issue:
http://500px.com/Kyle_Anstey/stories/37565/omd-e-m5-amazing-except
Doe this mean that the E-M5 does not have a Pany sensor?
As far as Oly’s loss is concerned, of course its big. They will have been pouring every single loss they can find (even think of finding, future losses provision, buy the next 10 years supply of xxxx) into the past years financials.
The Share holders have given the Board the nod. They have the great sales figures of the E-M5 at a premium price for their current financial year already happening, a great spring board.
I think Oly is in a better position at the moment than any of its competitors. Any talk of them being taken over or selling out is something that will not happen, given the position of the “rest” financially. In fact it could even work the other way round in 2 to 3 years if current loss trends in consumer electronics continue.
The OMD banding issue also occurs with the new 12-50mm kit zoom as I sadly discovered tonight. Here’s my sample image
http://www.mu-43.com/f42/omd-banding-12-50mm-zoom-27488/
My banding issues were real enough at < iso800 – I documented the issue under Vanessa's thread mu-43.com/f42/omd-banding-12-50mm-zoom-27488/index5.html
Pages 4-5 show my problem, then the fix with a replacement camera body…
The difference in user experience with my first camera and now the replacement, is great, no worries about bumping into banding. I would suggest if you get banding issues to get the thing serviced by Olympus, and if you can demonstrate to the Olympus staff the issue all the better.
BR
PW121