CIPA data of cameras shipped by Japanese companies (October 2013)
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It wasn’t really a secret but now you can see it on a nice graph (Thanks to Personal-View). As you see Asian countries are rapidly switching from DSLR to Mirrorless cameras. Europe’s mirrorless market is also slowly growing. But it’s in North America where Mirrorless cameras still cannot come closer to DSLR sales. Hard to say for me why it is so. Wrong marketing, different culture., or something else…you guess 🙂
231 Responses
Probably because the American way of thinking…bigger is better
Not only that, they will be so convinced that is the case and will argue til their blue in the face. Merkins on the whole are a moronic bunch, sure they can be nice individually but that’s where it ends.
Um, OK… Do you think that generalizing and denigrating the behavior of an entire continent somehow elevates your own moral standing in the discussion? Sounds like you’ve got some bigotry sizzling under the surface.
Did you ever consider that advertising investment plays a major role in maintaining market share? Nikon and Canon have been reinforcing the defenses here like a war is on their doorstep (and it is). I’ve literally never seen an m43 advertisement on the TV here, while those same airwaves are constantly bombarded by DSLR propaganda.
It takes discussion between photographers to slowly change the dynamic in this environment. Instead of telling my buddies how stupid they are for buying into heavy, bulky gear, I go out and shoot with them and show them exactly what they are missing with these new compact & powerful systems. Slowly they are coming around and realizing the value that mirrorless brings to the table.
While the US do produce (and attract) some of the finest minds in almost every field, you have to admit the average citizen’s education is very far from that level of academic excellence.
It doesn’t make them stupid or any less nice, it just makes them a little more impervious to rational thought (in what other industrialized country is creationism taken seriously ?), add to that an arrogance that would even make the French blush and the perception that bigger is better and you do end up with a market markedly different from the rest of industrialized nations.
Now, when it comes to the importance of marketing, you have to understand that in Europe, there isn’t much more mirrorless marketing going on (the Canon/Nikon marketing budget is slightly smaller though) and distribution is barely better than in the US, yet it performs better.
Finally, concerning the importance of marketing, was is not one of your authors that once said “Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door.” (Ralph Waldo Emerson, if memory serves me right), well, it seems it does for mirrorless, except in the US.
A lack of education is why Americans seem to prefer DSLR’s? Your hubris is breathtaking!
The graphic shows the Americas which would include Canada, the US, Mexico, Central America, South America. Even if it’s only North America that would mean Canada,the US and Mexico.
Said the fool who can’t spell Americans
Said the Merkin without a sense of humour! ;0
Thanks for illustrating my point for me, silly merkin.
Muricans to you. 😀
No it’s merkin – which is a double entendre given that a ‘merkin’ is an artificial covering of hair for the pubic area.
It’s a great way of offending merkins twice in one word, yet they never realise due to their lack of education and ability to actually listen as opposed to opening their large mouths.
And to be fair, as mentioned above, some of the best minds are in the US and lots of scientific advancement occurs there. But damn those people are carrying a whole lot of fools on their back.
We’re talking about a nation in which a majority of people talk to an invisible man who lives in the sky, and ask him to help them live their lives, I don’t need to say anymore as this point illustrates enough.
Last paragraph, weak argument, higher percentages outside of America talk to God than inside America. Higher percentage of agnostics in USA than elsewhere
correction – atheists
The reason is obvious: the north americans have very small sausages due to their very bad nutrition, so they need to compensate somehow this lack.
That’s why we still drive SUVs.
Have you ever seen the rest of the world?
Demand for big SUVs is growing at an incredible pace in places like China and Russia.
The rest of the world has a huge thirst for sport utility vehicles.
Yes, the affluenza virus is spreading.
Baltimore style
No big box stores carry GX7 et al, whereas in Japan you can play with them on any corner. How is anyone supposed to plop down 1k or more in the United States on something sight unseen? Based on some amazon review? All those revenues dried up with the initial users of m43, the vanguards… now, with no way to see the latest gear, how can it not languish on the shelves?
M43 is at a serious crossroads, lets hope they can get some m43 cameras into Walmart or Costco or anywhere where they can be seen.
Right now, unless you live in NYC, where are you gonna play with M43 gear? Riddle me that Batman.
I doubt this point will penetrate the fog of America bashing, but you’ve stated it perfectly. If PanOly wants to sell in the US, they will have to figure out how to get product into the major retailers, not just the photo shops. Thom Hogan points out that the supply channels are overstocked with m43 gear. Perhaps, instead of deep discounts to move the stuff, PanOly should put that abundance in the hands of Bestbuy, Walmart, etc. Gratis, of course. Once I handled an EM-5 in a store in Phoenix, there was no going back to my D300. But, I wouldn’t buy into the system until I had an opportunity to actually pick one up and play with it.
This is exactly the problem, and it’s not just big box stores.
If I want a m4/3 camera in Las Vegas, my only choice is to order it online. I’ve called around to every camera store I can find and have visited all the big boxes (Best Buy had an e-pl1, but that was after the epl3 came out!)
Without a distribution chain, there can be no significant sales vs. Canikon.
The problem is that in Yankee-land everyone has to have something bigger than their neighbor. Is it not the Yankee motto “Go Big or Go Home?” Or perhaps…does the word excessive come to mind? Just seems like everyone has to have the biggest and the best. Bigger is not always better
People seem to forget, MARKETING and product exposure, plays a big part.
There is ZERO marketing for Micro Four Thirds in the United States. There is however loads of Canon commercials and ads, from the 5D MkIII, down to the Powershot.
If they’re not going to give up their big cars & guns, they’re not going to give up their big DSR’s either. 😉
Big Macs are something else they don’t like to give up either. 😀
And it has been this way for a long time. Here’s a quote from a Maitani-San lecture on why he “had” to build a bigger SLR than the Pen F series:
“Japanese manufacturers were happy to support us because the half-size camera was made in Japan. This attitude of helping each other was a driving force for Japan’s industrial development. Fuji and Konishi both produced half-size mounts, and so did Agfa. Only Kodak refused, which meant we couldn’t sell our cameras in America. However, the executive in charge of exports to America refused to accept this. He told me that we must meet our quota, and the only way to do that was to make a 35mm SLR.”
So he made the OM series. Of course he insisted on it being smaller than any other SLR at the time! Seems like the more things change, the more they stay the same.
For anyone that’s interested, it’s a very interesting lecture to read.
http://www.olympus-global.com/en/corc/history/lecture/lecture1/
The reason is obvious: the north americans have very small sausages due to their very bad nutrition, so they need to compensate somehow this lack.
Yes, I get it. Blame the customers because your product is not selling.
That was the first tought, that entered in to my head, when i read the article. The reason is that americans belive that “bigger is better”
Exactly. I live in the states and still use a Motorola 8900x-2 mobile. Screw those tiny iPhones. the bigger is better argument is getting so played out anymore. I don’t buy shit unless I handle an item. Truth is, can’t handle any of these cameras where 3 I live .
Not only that, mirror-less cameras are too small for American hands. This is like asking why large American sedans don’t sell well in Asia…
“Large American Hands”?!
What a hoot! You guys are literaly effing crazy.
Large American Hands both designed, engineered and with me are using this iPhone 5S and a bunch of tiny EM1 gear and it’s tiny little lenses.
Leicas tiny compared to my old (unused)Sinar P2s and my Canon 1DX and Hasselblad H series. So what???
What a load of near cultural misanthropic and certainly anthropological crap.
But you people are bigger even you woman bigger
pie charts like this are easily misunderstood
ask yourself, if I took country ‘B’ out of the selection
and redistributed the pie to the rest,
what would the chart look like then
Absolutely.
This chart tells us very little without the total number of sales of DSLRs and MLCs.
To draw the conclusion that Admin is drawing you’d need a comparative DSLR x MLC for each region.
Funny how Japan is not Asia.
Seriously, the reason is simple: American SUV Mentality.
When I shoot weddings, I take a DSLR and a Mirrorless camera. Everyone takes me seriously when I crack out the DSLR. If I really want to impress them, I rent a Phase One or a Hasselblad.
Hehe! A friend of mine brought a Hasselblad, a NEX 5r and a NEX 7 to shoot a wedding. Hassie was just to keep customer quiet: he shoot 99% of times with Sony cameras and did a good job. 🙂 (It happened in Italy: I believe the reason why mirrorless market does not improve well is simply ignorance)
We should start a company that produces Hasselblad look-a-like cases for m43 cameras.
If we were enthusiasts we would be out there taking photos instead of posting bs on internet forums.
Lots of users in North America invest (not buy) in a whole camera system, not just a sensor. A whole camera system means, for example, ease of handling&control, features&functions, collection of lenses, flash system, warrantee program, professional support, etc.
Yeah, Europeans can’t be bothered with any of that. Did you read your comment before posting it?
crap
most will not even buy another lens
the average is something like 2.2 lenses per SLR
So I have ten lenses for my FF set-up and ten lenses for my RMFT set-up…ummm, I guess that makes me unAmercan.
Cool.
you answered your own question
I talk to myself quite often…….
We are our best friends! 🙂
My sister-in-law has a Sony NEX-6. I was showing her some pictures I had taken with my GH2 and a Pentax F1.4 50mm lens, and she asked me how she could make her pictures look like that, i.e shallow DOF. I told her she needed a different lens and she looked very disappointed. After talking some more I realized she didn’t understand that she could actually change the lens on her camera.
old world(cams) vs. new world 😉
I believe Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony need to better market their products and convince potential buyers why mirrorless is better. They need to spend more money in magazines, TV, conferences, etc. A lot of people don’t any better and they will always go with Canon or Nikon cause they’re the biggest names with the biggest sensors and cameras.
If you need to *convince* someone that your product is better, then it isn’t. For them. That you think it is doesn’t matter.
Thanks god, all companies can now stop marketing expenses and just build the best products and they will sell. I seem to have missed this revolution in the way the world works, must have been watching Family Guy.
Actually its true. There are many products that have been sale successes without advertising. If it needs advertising beyond an introductory ad it is possible not really good enough to be ‘better’. Even when popular, the price is put up to cover the congratulatory advertisement to keep you comfortable with the product, usually detergents and such. These designed to give the warm fuzzy feeling and make sure you do not experiment and discover a better product..
Why advertise if you won’t earn money? Prices for cams are low in the US so Panasonic and Olympus go where the money is to be earned. This may even force Canikon to keep focus on DSLR just to keep their market share in the US.
Another thing the sales people don’t really push these cameras and you don’t see them in the Best buys of the world.
Exactly. I wish I could see and try m43 cameras in stores. That’s why many people don’t even know they exist.
All the camera forum measurebators are in the US, aren’t they?
Yeah, I bet “Fool Frame” and his ilk reside in some sort of Texan basement.
You should add some more info to that to make it slightly more meaningful. In every single country DSLRs are still outselling mirrorless cameras at this time. The way it’s worded and important information is left out makes it sound like ILCs are selling in higher numbers in some regions.
NOTE:
There were ~1.5 million DSLRs sold in October worldwide.
There were ~0.4 million ILCs sold in October worldwide.
Roughly 158800 ILCs sold in Asia during October.
Roughly 378600 DSLRs sold in Asia during October.
Nice to see steady sales though. I saw my first big billboard advertising the EM-1 down here in NZ, glad to see that Olympus allowed some budget for it! Not the easiest market to move around in down here. Went to an expo and talked to the guys repping for mirrorless manufacturers. Tried out most of the Panasonic lenses and talking to the guy there who had no idea what he was talking about, he didn’t even know that the gx7 and gm1 had focus peaking nor what it even was so I had to teach him. Real shame they didn’t put a little more effort into finding a rep who was a serious user of their products (like me?), he was just a weekend shooter with the kit lens which was disappointing to hear. Oh well at least they’re showing up 🙂
@person aka…
Losing 20% market share to mirrorless is going to be hurting their bottom line especially with failed 1 and M launches, their failure to react quickly enough yo the fast declining point and shoot market, that they haven’t lowered manufacturing costs much and Nikon failure to break into the video market at any level…
Please elucidate on your claim that Nikon 1 is a failure but 4/3 is not.
In the US, Sony and Nikon dominate mirrorless, with Samsung being a distant third. 4/3 is way down in the mirrorless market.
Therefore, I look forward to your numbers.
@ronin
where are your figures for the USA market share or are just repeating Thom Hogan guess work?
The USA is 16% and declining of the world camera market. The Nikon 1 only “sold in” well in the USA after deep deep discounting and no where else, Samsung are not doing well in mirrorless except in South Korea.Sony were doing well in mirrorless up until 2012.
It’s not guesswork.
You’re making an incorrect assumption (that all mirrorless sales are lost DSLR sales). DSLR shipments have continued to go up during mirrorless’ rise (though this year is still an open book for both DSLR and mirrorless growth or lack thereof). If we’re to take your assumption, you’d also have to say that an RX100 or RX1 sale is a lost DSLR sale, I think.
The likelihood is that mirrorless expanded the market for interchangeable lens camera sales AND took a bit from possible DSLR sales. Surely you can’t assume that an E-PM2 sale is a lost DSLR sale, for example. For one, that wouldn’t square with buyer survey data (question: What other cameras did you consider before you selected this one?).
The problem with surveys is that you must (a) ask the right question and (b) understand the rationale of the answer. If they asked me “have you considered buying a dslr?”, the answer would be: Never! I was done with big and bulky by the age of 40; I always wanted an advanced camera that will fit in my pocket; for years I have had to compromise with IQ and manual controls, because the best camera is still the camera you have with you; now, finally, there are products that fit my needs; this does not make me a “P&S upgrader”. It just makes me a customer belonging to a market demographic whose needs were not met for years. So, how do I fit in your sample, your questions, and your interpretations?
“Surely you can’t assume that an E-PM2 sale is a lost DSLR sale”
Why not? The product was aimed at the step up from the phone market. The new user then hopefully migrating to the e-m1 or adding more lenses to the E-PM2 or buying the next model. So yes it is a “lost” canikon sale.
Your comment is rather strange.
By the way, many surveys are now conducted to make the management feel comfortable rather than establish a trend or pick up ideas.
yes that is odd
if you take the case that this is an opportunity sale; that is to say it created a sale that would not ordinarily have happened. Then it would enlarge the market by that consummate amount. Which brings about a proposition that, if you take mirrorless out of the equation then camera sales were much lower
Given the data we already have on buyer behavior, with respect to the drop in sales re 2013, it is far more reasonable to suppose that buyers were in the market to purchase a camera and decided upon a particular model, which displaced all others (as sales normally do).
IOW, the sale is not uniquely different.
Try it a different way: “surely you can’t expect that a Kia Soul sale is a lost BMW 5 sale.” People have price ranges, have preferences (function, brand, and more), and tend to try to narrow their choices down to “appropriate” ones.
If I were just speaking about generic camera sales, sure, someone who bought an E-PM2 didn’t buy a different camera (Coolpix, Cybershot, Powershot, DSLR, Medium Format, whatever) and Olympus got the win over other makers.
@YouDidntDidYou
Agreed there will be some pressure. The 1 and M have been fairly abysmal here, in fact I haven’t even seen a 1 in this country and my friend is the only one with an M that I’ve heard of.
It was very amusing at the expo I went to seeing Canon and Nikon’s booths showing off the best they have, a Nikon D4 suck onto the 500/f4 being a centerpiece yet they didn’t even feature their mirrorless systems! I was secretly laughing inside because they seem to be humiliated by their own product.
I long to see the day where innovation takes priority over profits in the camera giant world. Unfortunately we know from many decades of experience in Japanese manufacturing that financial greed is the primary motivator, not innovation.
With the M2 on the way and ready to blow the competition away I’m sure canon has nothing to worry about…lol.
There are countless factors to weigh in here.
Not least, physical – are Asian hands smaller, more delicately proportioned than non-Asian ? That’s not a racist question. All I know is that none of the “small” mirrorless cameras fit comfortably in *my* hands other than the E-M1. And you know what ? That E-M1 isn’t actually significantly smaller than my mirror equipped E-620 (my fiancee has the former, I have the latter – side by side there is nothing in it).
The quantum leap in size and convenience that people attribute to mirrorless is mythical is based on comparison with unnecessarily large 4/3 bodies, not on any intrinsic physical difference that couldn’t have been achieved even with a mirror had the R&D gone into it. And larger has it’s own benefits – note the positive commentary about the greater number and improved accessibility of control points on the E-M1 vs the E-M5, something that is only possible when you have more physical surface area to work with (i.e. a physically larger body).
But in terms of drawing conclusions about “switching”, these graphs alone provide no evidence of that.
They show sakes of two product areas. They do no show trends in either one and they do not demonstrate that sales in one come conclusively at the expense of sales in the other.
Mirrorless could simply be an additional market, not an alternative one.
“not on any intrinsic physical difference that couldn’t have been achieved even with a mirror had the R&D gone into it.”
I’ll see your E-620 and raise you a GM1…. with 12-35mm…
mirrorless has changed the game… I even ask why do you want a mirror? all it does is get in the way of the imaging device 🙂
Why do I want a mirror ?
Because when I lift my E-620 to my eye I instantly see the image I am composing. No irksome delay while the EVF tugs at the battery. And on that note, 400-500+ shots from a battery compared to 300 if you’re lucky. Sure, you can add a battery grip and/or pack some spare batteries. But that’s extra gear for the same base level of performance and somewhat offsets the size/convenience arguments (are all your spare batteries charged today..?).
Sure, the EVF has advantages in low light, but then I always have the option on the E-620 of flipping the mirror up and using LiveView to compose.
The real question is, what real advantage do you think that removing the mirror gives you ?
There’s no significant intrinsic size and weight advantage.
There’s no performance advantage (mirror equipped cameras – even very old 35mm film SLRS – have higher FPS and faster shutter speeds).
There’s no capability advantage (on a LiveView equipped camera, which is all of them these days)
So where is the compelling argument ?
FTR: I covet my fiancées E-M1, but not for anything that is contingent on the lack of a mirror.
“Because when I lift my E-620 to my eye I instantly see the image I am composing. No irksome delay while the EVF tugs at the battery.”
If the little delay bothers you, you can tell the camera to not use the eye sensor.
“And on that note, 400-500+ shots from a battery compared to 300 if you’re lucky. Sure, you can add a battery grip and/or pack some spare batteries. But that’s extra gear for the same base level of performance and somewhat offsets the size/convenience arguments (are all your spare batteries charged today..?).”
Yes, better battery life is certainly an advantage of an OVF.
But we could go on further down that road, my OM-1 uses a battery, but can make do without. Is your battery charged today?
“Sure, the EVF has advantages in low light,”
Not just in low light.
– 100% coverage
– preview your exposure before you take the picture
– instant magnification for critical focus
– information overlays
– hilight/shadow indication
All that is quite useful regardless of light levels.
“but then I always have the option on the E-620 of flipping the mirror up and using LiveView to compose.”
Certainly, through, always? in full sunlight? When camera stability is important but you can’t use a tripod?
“The real question is, what real advantage do you think that removing the mirror gives you ?”
…
“There’s no significant intrinsic size and weight advantage.”
There absolutely are because of reduction of the flange distance.
It allows for slimmer camera bodies and smaller lenses, reducing both size and weight. The GM1 mentioned above shows how far this can be taken.
But have you ever compared the 4/3 40-150 to the m4/3 40-150 for example? Or how about the 14-150 versus the 18-180? Think thats only due to different materials? Those don’t make those lenses much smaller, lighter? maybe.
“There’s no performance advantage (mirror equipped cameras – even very old 35mm film SLRS – have higher FPS and faster shutter speeds).”
They do? compared to what?
1/16000? 10fps?
“There’s no capability advantage (on a LiveView equipped camera, which is all of them these days)”
Hmm, my E-P1 can adapt PEN F and Leica M lenses with infinity focus, my E-620 can’t… (same generation and era cameras sharing quite a few internals)
A GM1 with 12-32 fits my coat pockets easily, no 4/3 camera with lens does, through the E-420 with 25/2.8 gets close.
Oh well, each to his own, but you seem a bit confused about the difference between preference and reasoned arguments.
Do you happen to have both with the battery grip? Both still seem to have a small grip to me… E-330 and GH-3 seem to be more comfortable to hold and operate with a single hand to me.
Wrong marketing in the US? Try NO marketing. Or at least no EFFECTIVE marketing.
None of my friends know what the heck Micro Four Thirds is. They don’t realize that Olympus is still in business or that Panasonic even makes cameras. Go to Target, Best Buy, Walmart, Costco or any other low-grade camera store and you’d be hard-pressed to find any M43 cameras, Sony NEX cameras, Fujifilm X cameras, or even Samsung NX cameras.
You will find a ton of one-piece cameras as well as Nikon and Canon entry-level SLRs. If you don’t put your product in front of the masses, the masses won’t know about it and they won’t buy it.
+100 … really agree with that. They can start out from Best Buy and TV ad.
yep.
Good post. That is exactly right.
100% right.
@twoomey
Try that the USA is an expensive place to do business with lower margins, higher distribution and marketing costs, the slower uptake of new technology.
The USA is now just 16% of the world camera market and continuing to decline.
… because them Texans have bigger fingers…
I think it is not cultural but physical. Asian people have smaller body scale, therefore, they might find mirrorless camera more comfortable to hold. Americans are also physically stronger and more durable to weight, that is probably why they don’t mind mirrorless camera.s
Explain Europe.
Is that the reason why Captain American is not Captain Japan? (I prefer ninjas)
They are also attached to antiquated equipment. If not for Brabham, Clark and Hill they would still be running Offys at the brickyard.
Am I missing something in the chart? Where does it say North America? Does “America” automatically mean only the US and Canada? Doesn’t this pie chart include sales in Brazil, Bolivia, etc.?
I work in a small camera shop and honestly it is really just exposure. People have no clue that mirrorless cameras exist, or that in most cases they get more bang for their buck, not flame bait, Canon t3 and Panasonic g5 are the same price at the store I work for, but you tell me in what way the t3 is better than a g5? I show people both and they just go for the Canon name. The average consumer doesn’t care about sensor size, just megapixels and name. Don’t believe me? Find one of those chinzy 16mp Kodak cameras and grab a gh1 or any of the 12mp m4/3 cameras and people will think the Kodak is better.
Very, very true. Right on.
I opted for a M4/3 camera after much deliberation. The main reason being size. As an Asian,my hands would be a tad too small for the FF DSLR. Plus the fact that a DSLR camera would be far too big to bring along as a travel camera.
it’s spicy wings fault that make hands greasy.
It is a fact that anyone who asks me for a camera advice, always asks me if they should get a Canon or a Nikon. They seriously don’t realize other companlies also make cameras. Most of the ads in big magazines that people in the US read, that have amazing photos, like National Geographic, feature ads (multipage ones often) from Canon and Nikon. Generally most people in US have heard of Canon or a Nikon. I steer them toward mirrorless and they are always surprised to hear there are other camera makers. As far as Sony, most Americans are convinced that Sony make the best luxury tvs. As for m43, no one has heard of it here
It’s bad marketing and even worse distribution! Plus “real” camera stores have mostly gone out of business which leaves you with crappy consumer models at Target/Wally-World/Worse Buy. I don’t know of one place in the entire state of Florida where you can walk in and buy any of the top end Mirrorless from Olympus, Panasonic, Sony or Fuji. The one large camera store in Orlando doesn’t push Mirrorless be wise the sales people don’t truly understand just what they have become. Plus, unfortunately Americans have been sold a lie in almost every area of life, “Bigger is Better.”
The good news is that Mike’s Camera is expanding in the U.S., and they actually have a whole display (next to the Canon and Nikon displays) that now exhibit several Oly and Pany m43 cameras. Their advertising flyers also include m43 cameras (although the Canikon ads still dominate).
Is Australia considered Europe or Asia?
Actually, probably “others”.
Its Oceania, if there is no segmentation to that level then we fall under Asia.
Europe. Seriously?
So what do Australian’s buy? They are big people with big hands, big cars, big houses, do they buy DSLR’s or Mirrorless?
Go to this technology forum. http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/132
It gives a good idea what cameras and camera systems interest users in Australia. Or, at least those who frequent Whirlpool (which has over 600,000 registered users).
Looking at the thread topics alone, I’d say the majority still goes for Canikon. Maybe still 60-70% of the interest is still with the Canikon DSLR systems. But mirrorless, particularly m43 and Sony E-mount is getting popular with increasing user bases. There is still a lot of interest in compact cameras too, like Sony RX100, Canon S & IXUS. High end large sensor cameras like Fuji X100/S, Sony RX1/R and Ricoh GR get a lot of interest and users too. But I think some of this could be over-representation, as many of the users on these forums are gearheads and GAS afflicted, and probably don’t represent the real picture (pun intended).
Yeah I’ve been hearing that mirrorless has really been gaining ground this year in Australia and New Zealand 🙂
sure has!
So, where is Oceania of that pie chart?
BTW, a lot of products are shipped with the Euro default settings due to the default English language.
Its more to do with the distribution of mirrorless. Go to bestbuy. How many mirrorless cameras are for sale. Where I am,you might have a low end nex and a low end oly. Thats it. As for dslrs they have about 8 to choose from. Low end all the way to full frame. Its like that in most large electronics stores (sams doesnt even carry any mirrorless in my town) where regular people shop, and a bunch of these regular people have a “good camera” that they bought there. Thats where most of these dslr sales are occurring.
This is very true. In many places in the USA you will rarely ever see mirrorless cameras in real life.
Where I live there us not a single store that sells m43 cameras. Not one, and this is a state capitol.
You can not see mirrorless cameras in any stores in the Midwest.
I guess that depends on your definition of the midwest.
Best Buy has Samsung, Sony, and Nikon mirror-less system cameras in their stores. Plus, I shop a couple of photographic stores which have Olympus and another than has Olympus and Panasonic micro Four-Thirds models.
I’m American, and I love mirrorless cameras. So this really makes me sad. 🙁
its exposure and advertising. I think both Target and Best BUy used to have at least the base level Panasonic camera. Now they have neither. When I’m in Australia and go to a camera store or a big box electronic store I can see a whole range of m43 cameras. In fact I remember the year the omd em5 came out, when I was leaving Aus and they had boxes of them at Sydney Airport. (I was tempted). I’m glad I’ve gone m43, it’s just so much more user friendly and easier to carry. Unfortunately I now have more lenses then I had before. I am slowly selling my canon gear (just sold my 100-400). I am now very tempted by the GX7 and Omdem1 (i need to sell more photos before i can do that).
Hang on. The graph merely shows where the cameras are sold.
What you should look at is market penetration. In the Americas, market share of MILC is only 10%. Why so low? Yes, Americans may prefer bigger cameras. But, why is MILC share so low?
Looks like several brands are choosing to withdraw in full or partially from the Americas. Dumb?
Meanwhile, DSLR is rolling back MILC in Japan. Jan-Oct market share of MILC is only 36%. Down double digit from 2012. Why?
These are the hard questions that MILC fans need to answer. Don’t just blame Americans and their size.
The local nikon rep asked me a few months ago why have mirrorless cameras not sold in the USA? None of the American bloggers have an opinion and neither do I. I do have and use a Nikon1 V1 and a lumix G3 and only know that the USA becomes a dumping ground and the prices go down!
These side by side pie charts are a poor way of demonstrating the thesis, although it may be true. For example, the Americas (keep in mind it also includes Canada and all of South America) might buy exactly identical numbers of mirrorless and DSLR cameras, while the other three regions just buy a lot more mirrorless cameras. It wouldn’t mean that mirrorless cameras are selling badly in the Americas, necessarily, it would just mean that *cameras* are selling badly, and the proportional preference is different.
Similarly, if the DSLR pie chart were 100x larger than the mirrorless one, it wouldn’t much matter where the sales were, they would all be so small as to be a rounding error, and could fluctuate wildly from month to month just from a single new model that moved a few units coming out.
That said, if you walk into any moderate sized “big box” retailer like Sears, or Best Buy, or Target, or even Staples, in the US, there will be a display case full of cameras. 80% of them will be compacts or superzooms. There will always be 2-4 DSLRs. Those DSLRs will invariably be Nikon and Cannon. I think maybe once I saw a Sony as well. I don’t believe I have never seen a mirrorless camera on one of those displays.
The people buying said cameras probably don’t really know what they’re looking for, only that it’s “pro-ish” and big, and says either Canon or Nikon on it. I would wager they’re highly unlikely to ever buy a lens other than the kit it came with.
Does that mean Panasonic and Olympus should ignore the “ignorant big-box shopper market”? No, they’re customers too. But they’re fickle and, honestly, hard to appeal to when you can just slap a big megapixel number on a bulky-looking camera with a relatively low price tag and have a pretty good chance of grabbing their attention.
Contrast that with people who really do shop for cameras and understand what they’re getting into when they buy into a system. They may or may not choose m43, but there’s a much better chance that they will. I know I did–I was consciously willing to trade the FF image quality advantages for the significantly lower cost, much more compact body size, and simple fact that I prefer live view to TTL. (Actually, I’d often wondered, prior to the existence of m43, why such a camera–a compact with a big sensor and interchangeable lenses–didn’t exist. When the G1 came out, I said “Ah, there’s my camera.”)
The issue may be that the “ignorant” portion of the market in the Americas is simply more swayed by the Canon/Nikon marketing machine than elsewhere. Or it could be that the cheap prices appeal more to American consumers and consumers in South America than the affluent high-end camera buyers in Asia and Europe.
In any case, it’s a complicated issue that isn’t easily demonstrated by a couple of pie charts.
Some of us drive Priuses and recycle.
Yup, there are as many Prius sold in the US as the rest of the world combined.
There are other alternatives in the “rest of the world”. Some more economical to run. But mostly all a lot cheaper to buy. Achieve the same thing without the cost, or the “look at me I’m good” US Toyota advertising.
I’ve always found that many people in the U.S.A. would rather believe hearsay instead of facts. What’s the expression “A good lie is easier to believe than the truth.”?
It seems as though people choose a brand by “My mother’s brother’s ex-roommate’s fiance’s sister’s uncle uses Nikon, so that’s what I’m choosing.”
We don’t need your anti-American crap.
And you are certainly no expert on America.
Good point, referrals are a big influencer. Success breeds success. Brand name recognition breeds sales.
How on earth is that hearsay and not facts?
Again, blaming Americans for Olympus failure in the market is ridiculous. There are many factors in the failure of a manufacturer of consumer toys, but blaming the customer because your product is not selling is non productive and ultimately a sign of failure.
Pointing out how differences in culture and behavior can explain different sales results is not at all ‘blaming the customer’, it is one mandatory step in understanding what the manufacturer can do to improve this situation.
Hence, equaling ideas about what behavior and cultural factors may affect those numbers to ‘blaming the customer’ is just nonsense. Its also kinda funny how so many people from the USA instantly go into defensive mode as soon as they perceive that maybe there is a very remote chance that someone said something that might very possibly be a negative comment about people in the USA. Go grow some skin or something.
For years, people would choose either Ford or Chevrolet cars, not because they were good but because of loyalties and hearsay. Even other brands by the same manufacturers have been dropped, not because of the superiority of Ford or Chevrolet, but because people wouldn’t choose by the facts.
Of course, in these cases, if they chose by the facts, both Ford and General Motors would have likely been out of business in the 1970s, or existing only to sell trucks.
The same reason why the American market doesn’t understand small displacement turbocharged engines in hatchbacks and small/mid wagons as sufficient cars for daily or family use. You need a 8 cylinder 5.8L engine in a 5-6 meter long sedan/saloon or SUV/4WD for the family trip to Macca’s drivethru or to pick up the kids from school/daycare. “If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em”. “Keeping up with the whatever-their-name-is” mentality.
These attitudes are also prevalent in Australia, though not as widespread as in the US. There is a strong market for small cars in Australia. But SUVs and 4WDs seem to dominate many of the suburban roads and shopping centres. Many people are downsizing to smaller dwellings due to the high price of housing. You can also find m43 cameras in big department stores like Myer, DJs, HNs, JBs, TGGs, Target, and even at the Post Office shop.
Most sold car in Australia; The Toyota Hilux SUV/Utility
Given the amount of them I see in corporate carparks in the CBD, most aren’t used for tradespeople. Merkin Affluenza is rife in Australia.
The Toyota Hilux is a top seller in the mining industry. And, perhaps, because the mining industry is associated with wealth and riches, many city and CBD type folks are buying them as a sort of “status symbol” for driving around town. They are a tough-built car, but hardly what I would call luxury or status.
You completely made that up, the Toyota Corrolla is the number 1 car sold in Australia for 2013. Just in case people don’t know that is a small car. And there are mirrorless cameras in most camera shops. Those Sony DSL gear no idea adds were also made in Australia, they might be big people but they appreciate good tech.
I said the Hilux was “A top seller” “in the mining industry”. Read again.
I retract my comment, you are correct, it is. 1001 apologies 😉
No worries. Easy mistake. Ford Ranger is popular too as a work vehicle. Most of these cars are on leases and get dumped after 2-3 years anyway. So a lot of them hit the used market.
actually it was Mazda 2
Mirrorless system user, hard to figure out what you are talking about. By far most cars sold in the US are 4 cylinder. The V8 has long been dying in terms of sales- for decades. Please research before making marketing judgements.
Your assumptions about V8 engines in the US are somewhat skewed compared to modern car-buying trends. Looking at cars and SUVs, the top five vehicles in the US this year were the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Nissan Altima, and Toyota Corolla. None of those are even available with a V8, and all have 4-cylinder options.
Where I live, turbocharged Subaru and Mazdas aren’t at all uncommon.
On the other hand, if you look at overall vehicle sales, the top two *vehicles* were the Ford F-150 pickup and Chevrolet Silverado pickup, both large pickup trucks with V8 options and terrible gas mileage; Dodge’s full-sized pickup placed 5th. Admittedly, since there are only a handful of large pickup models on the market, it might skew things by concentrating the pickup buying work crowd where car and SUV buyers are spread out over a far larger number of models, but I still suspect a lot of those are used for highway commuting.
@ ronin & marc. Points taken. Just having a bit of a dig, that’s all. The V6/V8 as a family car market has almost died out in Australia too. Large sedans still sell but that is mostly to fleets who dump them after 2-3 years. The Subaru WRX vs Mitsubishi EVO culture is rarely seen nowadays too (for the better).
Most people in the city drive 4 cylinder small cars and SUVs. Turbocharged Euro hot-hatches are popular here at the moment too. In Australia, car enthusiasts generally hate Camrys and Corollas and any other vehicles that can be classified as whitegoods on wheels. Mazdas are popular too. Honda, Nissan and Subaru, once all popular, have mostly fallen off the radar.
Love the V8 analogy! It’s exactly like saying 99% of amateur “photographers” have no darn business buying a Nikon D800, a FF Leica or the new 36MP Sony. Ever!
They’ve really no practical use for it. Right?
Crappy photos that nearly no one cares about.
And that’s exactly why the best single camera by absolute sales EVER was the recent iPhone 5.
And the iPhone 5S is on track to take that very title next!
So here we are discussing the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic. Yet again.
Via my iPhone 5S.
Hahahaha.
Mind you – what you call “corolla” in the US, is the twin of what we used to call “carina” (later renamed “avensis”) in Europe; a quite bigger car.
Once the high anticipated OrganicSensors hit the market then everything will change .
Most consumers don’t even know what a sensor is. They probably don’t care. They see:
1). Price.
2). Megapixels.
3). Brand.
4). Time. (i.e. “What’s the time? I’ve been here 10 minutes already?! Damn. Gotta get outta here. Yeah, alright. This looks like it’ll do the job. How much? Err, okay. Sorry, what’s that? Filters? Case? Spare batteries? Memory card? Extended warranty? Yeah, might as well. How much was that all up? $1293.56?! Damn! I thought the camera was on only $599? Extras? Warranty? Um, okay. Put it on credit. Thanks. Bye.”)
Who cares? A customer buys a camera because it takes a good picture. All the better that they don’t have to have an engineering degree.
Now you are telling them they need to understand sensors before buying a picture taking utility, just as customers have been doing for 135 years? Yeah, that will really help micro 4/3 sales.
This is like saying smart phone users don’t know what a microprocessor is.
Nikon and Canon are profitable selling picture taking appliances, and you, too, use appliances every day of your life without knowing their engineering.
That was the point I was making. Since most consumers don’t know or don’t care, there’s little point of marketing the benefits of sensor technology to them (as Yun was alluding to in regards to the organic sensor tech).
Non-enthusiasts usually don’t research much, if at all, before going out and buying their cameras. They look at price, features and brand. Time (to spend shopping) and stock availability will also influence their buying decisions.
A lot of consumers in the market for DSLRs to use as a big point-and-shoot might be better served with a CSC/mirrorless camera. It’s lack of product awareness, knowledge and availability, combined with poor marketing (or none at all) that hinders mirrorless sales in markets like the US.
I live in Brazil and feel that people here think more or less like north americans. The problem is also with marketing and distribution in my opinion. It also seems that Olympus and Panasonic don’t care much about the brazilian market, which I think is tremendous mistake cause it’s a huge market, and I believe people here has an open mind to new products, more than north americans, just my perception. But the other day I was at a Target store in California and asked the salesman (camera department, of course) about Olympus system cameras and then ‘he’ asked me: is Olympus still making cameras??? :S
Yes Olympus and Panasonic should be targeting the whole of South America with micro four thirds…maybe email them via flickr and the various Mft websites?
Anything with “micro” in it is bound to confuse the American purchaser. Trey Ratcliff actually disparaged the consortium a bit at that nomenclature and at first I laughed, and then I kind of agreed with him. Just like the analogy of the v4 turbocharged vs v8 mentioned above. If it’s micro it must mean inferior. 🙂
True. The US does not use microprocessors, and therefore PCs don’t sell. They never heard of microsoft, and don’t use microsurgery.
It’s because the vast majority of wannabe photographers who call themselves pros are the soccer-ball moms who think that if they buy a stinking huge Canon with a monster zoom lens that it will somehow morph them into a professional!? 😉 Sad thing is, most of these kind ladies couldn’t tell you what an F-Stop is, sadly. These are the majority of DSLR buyers and consumers perhaps?
Just look around the US. The whole country is slow to adapt to new technology compare to countries like Japan, Taiwan and Korea. Ie. Public transit, public WiFi etc. When you go to major Asian cities it is like stepping into a sci-fi film. I frequently travel between Asia and SF, whenever I get back to SF, it’s like stepping back in time.
Well someone needs to come up with a good idea, and get all the mirrorless users to unite and rally behind for some kind of big viral marketing push.
Everybody press their shutter button at the same time and we knock the earth off it’s axis
youre gonna need DSLR’s to do that! hmmm or a sony A7R lololololol
yeah, the gyroscope, eh 5 axis IBIS, is just going to cancel it all out. Zero effect on the world.
Just like mirrorless marketing.
North Americas like large things. No big secret.
I think because if it’s small and they leave it laying on the sofa whilst they are having TV dinner, they will sit on it and possibly break it. But if it’s big, then it’s like, “ooh what’s that, this sofa feels a bit lumpy, oh hang on, that’s my D4”
George whats that stain on the back of them there pants you got orn? Owwwww shoot Ethel I must have sat on that lil GM1.
just wait untill Haruka does the States with her GM promotion tour.
A fun portrait of Haruka with just got out of bed hair and the slogan saying “Go mirrorless for a day”, you’ll love it. Then provide all the rental shops with cameras to rent for free for a day 😉
I do believe the Americans want everything homogenized and ready wrapped to go and just follow the Herd. Just like National Health Care.. they are too lazy to investigate any new idea or plan and just repeat old prejudices from their Hillbilly Ancestors over and over and accept them as fact. Many will tell you that Mirrorless Cameras are a Communist Plot! They blindly send their kids to be slaughtered in useless wars, just like in the Hunger Games Movie. Stupid is as Stupid Does!
Good point, Bob. It’s true that everyone says micro 4/3 is a communist plot.
Idiotic comments from the ignorant will certainly help 4/3 to be a success.
so why the h**l they make such nice discounts in US but not in EU?
In EU there are bigger retail prices and less firesales and discounts … even the sales is better
or is it really all about bloody eu taxes ?
thats cool, they have EU Disney and EU Texas as well!
Discounts are used to promote sales. Sales they may have not gotten if there wasn’t a discount.
If anyone is going to make a larger presence, it will be Sony sadly, followed by Fuji.
I’m frome Poland and Panasonic is doing a good marketing here, even when there cameras are not exactly cheap.
1) There are about 5 stores in 4km radius from my home (Poznań, half million citizens)that have mirroless cameras (300 meters from here they have Panasonic, Sony, Canon, Samsung and Nikon, although they don’t have the newest kits), and in photo shops you almost always have every top model. We even have an official Fuji distributors that let you rent a camera.
2) Panasonic hired Robert Lewandowski and Sony is advertised by Adam Małysz, both very famous in Poland (a best football player and a former best winter sports sportsmen in the country).
3) In internet you see even more Pansonic, Sony, Olympus ads than Can-Nikon. And the closest big billboard with camera gear i see in my neighborhood is Panasonic Gx7.
4) In shops Panasonic has a tab on gf 6 with the information about a very good mark in tests by the top photo site. And they have a action like a cashback or free lens from time to time (thanks to that i got a 45-150 for free).
When it comes to Sony they have a very good motto – DSLR quality in smaller package and they have a pretty big shear of market. Olympus is a bit behind partial because there are a lot of old models still in the market, but they have a good share of lenses (let’s say 45mm 1,8 is the real star).
Steve Huff is obviously a well known US camera blogger, if I was Shuichi Takayama I’d be sending Steve a giant bag of Zuiko goodies to give away on his site, since he named the E-M1 camera of the year.
He probably did.
I for one ignore SH’s suggestions. He’s a Leica/Olympus fanboy that thinks Ibis and Olympus Jpegs rule over all other cameras.
Just don’t shoot at night, M43 can’t compete.
We could care less who you ignore, but you had better believe we ignore you.
Steve Huff makes interesting reviews. I wouldn’t call him biased toward any particular brand, but he certainly has his preferences (like all of us) when it comes to weighing the importance of various features.
So, for hands on experience I watch SH, but I rely on reviews from dpreview or imaging resource to get a more objective evaluatin of cameras.
@Spam Steve Huff IS biased.
On his site, he has a so-called GX1 review, where he chooses a lesser Olympus camera, with just 12mp, over the 16mp GX1 because “its just feels right.”
He threw image quality between the two out the window.
THAT’S being Biased! -there’s no other explanation.
There is a very simple explanation, its called priorities. If the improvement in iq of the 16mp camera over the 12mp camera wasn’t enough to make up for example for the better features of the 12mp camera, then one can only come to the conclusion that the 12mp camera is the better one.
What you completely fail to understand is that different people may have different priorities with regards to features and image quality, and so may make totally different choices then you would.
Steve is pretty clear about where his priorities are, so you can easily look at his conclusions and priorities, and get a picture of how that would work out for you.
Through, doing so would require you to think a bit, and to not take things at face value but rather interpret them to see what they mean for you. Maybe that is way too much to ask from you?
-YET, as much as you say you ignore me, you reply to my comment….
It’s nice to have fans.
VIETNAM VETERANS taking their cameras for guns – is the funny self explanation I found at DPR’s 1022 by a user commenting on the loathing of 4/3ers against m4/3.
Seems demented? NA population is aging and so purchasing power is in the hands of that segment of population. Now of course most have a bad relation with ‘shooting’. Figuratively, they still need big machine guns they can rely on the battlefield
To confirm it, the most vocal opposer to mirrorless at 1022 is an ex member of the SA apartheid special forces, one who used machine guns against Mandela’s ANC – and who now shoots exotic birds in the Veld…
Don’t believe me?;
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52679311
Macho VETERANS are blocking access to mirrorless in NA, with their colonialist siege mentality…
They have nightmares about camera Joshi dressed in black pajamas that infiltrate the jungle at night and get at their jugular with a little mirrorless…
:))
I think the American penchant for bigger things predates the Vietnam war.
The way M43 can crack the US is to make that ad where they had a small camera inside a fake DSLR body a reality, sell the GM3 but pack it into a big Urban camo DSLR body and rename it the Rebel, or the Patriot or something like that. Maybe start a rumour that the French have banned the Patriot for some reason.
Camera Size got out of hand at the time of the Vietnam War, which was too the apex of the US Imperialism – funny coincidence. Now of course the pendulum swings the other way so it’s the Asians setting the trends, and they want small.
As a result the old veterans feel besieged, and stick even closer to their dSLR. Works quite well as an explanation, although there are exceptions. Not everybody has knee jerk reactions.
Add to that that the youngest geek generations in the US might jump directly to smarphones, and don’t register in the stats at all. One wonders however why Asians don’t do the same.
‘Shooting’ is a metaphor that was invented in the US, and it’s telling. Before the Internet I always used ‘taking a photograph’. Pedantic? When you ‘shoot’ you need a target, so the metaphor goes on, and so the love of telezooms grows – long barrels. That lens is a ‘killer’.
By comparison mirrorless saw a rediscovery of short lenses, and thus I hope, of composition — female side, more inclusive. Asian Urban, not shooting deer from the car’s window.
There are a lot of metaphors in image societies that you can extract from bare stats. Designers play on unconscious desires. I am sure that at Canon they are aware that Vietnam veterans are the most affluent, aging, category of the US population. And so the cameras stay giant.
A Nazi explaining The United States…this is a little much to read with my morning coffee (bought coffee at Walmart Supermarket shelf, already ground, in two month old can…I think it is good coffee……it came in a big can….). Life is confusing?
Nazi? Like your ‘Apocalypse Now’ types? At DPR 1022, that coven of anti m4/3 we have all the military type of veterans, Air Cavalry, SA Special Forces, those days you can find them retracing their military careers with a tear in their eyes….
It is therefore so easy to fraw a parallel between their past massacres and their ardent wish of nuclearize mirrorless in one go.
Please join them or give them a dime. Veterans were always the cream of Nazi movements and Tea Parties can surely help 🙂
Perhaps I need to turn on my espresso machine, grind some fresh beans and press out a double…….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Serious babbling going on here. Every other sentence mentioning Viet Nam war, with some incomprehensible pronouncements. Distilling this, it seems there is a sense of envy toward Americans while simultaneously condemning them for not spending their money on toys the poster thinks they should.
Seriously, Americans are content with modestly priced, workable products that deliver great results and last year after year, and don’t see the need for the over materialistic pursuit of what some website tells them they should be consuming. That’s what happens when you have independent thinkers who don’t buy things just because you tell them too. Americans apologize to you for not being sheep.
Admin, will you BAN this guy already? What is his problem? Kill his voice. He’s banned on other forums, he’s been kicked out of flickr groups for his foul views.
By the way, most VN war journalist were using Leicas and other rangefinders.. do your research.
Who was the misinformed poster that said “most of the VN era photojournalists were using Leicas”?
So wrong. Leicas for wide angles and Nikon Fs for EVERYTHING ELSE.
Sorry to be more accurate. Not.
I believe that Nikon Fs (+200 mm tele) were standard news agency equipment since the late 50ies. The Leicas were the photojournalists’ own cameras.
Arise ye pris’ners of starvation
Arise ye wretched of the earth
am – you need a re-education on America. In the meantime, please take your medication.
On the contrary, I think I am ready to open a Lucy Brown cabinet/soapbox in Middletown..
Plenty of Linuxes to milk 🙂
Ridiculously big cars, Ridiculously big cameras.
…but FF= Ridiculously big sensor?
@thom hogan and raist
….your apologies accepted 🙂
Considering that this post by Admin is merely a repeat of something I posted last week on sansmirror.com, why would I need to apologize?
North America is also the world sales leader for pick up trucks. We should be sooo proud.
You mean, the pick-ups are justified by the transport capacities needed for carrying around their DSLR gear? 😉 That makes perfect sense to me. It would also explain the insistence on weather proofing…
Hasn’t anyone noticed that this graph doesn’t actually say that Americans don’t like mirrorless cams?
It just says that most of the mirrorless cams sold were bought in Asia, while most of the dSLRs bought were sold in the Americas… It doesn’t mean anything in absolute numbers. Maybe Asians are just buying a disproportionately large amount of mirrorless cams. Maybe American mirrorless sales are still growing fast (growth is not shown in the graph). And as many pointed out, maybe the marketing for mirrorless cams is just stronger in Asia. For example, a lot of people I’ve met here in Canada who are considering buying a dSLR don’t even know that mirrorless cams exist!
We have to be careful when we interpret a graph like this…
@yuki
I believe mirrorless is growing in North America albeit more slowly amongst the internet savvy and those that like to do their own research…
Yuki I hope you are setting them straight. Japan should send over hoards of bicyclists in pairs, dressed in white shirts and black pants, with mirrorless camera’s hanging around their necks. They could evangelise the States!
The comments here seem over-representative of the United States. The U.S. makes up less than 1/3 of the “Americas.”
There’s a things maybe effect the sales of bulkier DSLR and slimmer ILC…… Normally most of the people at some asia country take public transport (bus….train…tram…) instead of private cars…..
If you own a car, you can take a DSLR along with your car in ease…… But if you take public transport , bulkier your luggage , more troble you’ve got……
Transportation must be a v. big factor. If you mostly use the Public one, you’ll naturally drift towards the smaller ones.
When I began taking an interest in 4/3 I was naturally drawn towards the smaller models, and I couldn’t understand how people could buy the ginormous SHG teles. Then I understood that they were carrying their cases by car, and perhaps even taking pictures from them.
By comparison I know see people mentioning that they need a small m4/3 for their bycycle. So there is a shift there too.
One big problem in the US is that shops don´t carry much if any Mft Gear.
Yes, but that’s a chicken/egg problem. Leaving apart the folklore/ethnical aspects, there is plain history.
In 2008 when the downturn was beginning Oly and Panny were already folding up marketing units in the US: 4/3 had miserably failed, and in a camera saturation context, there was no hope.
So deliberately they decided to start anew from home, with a new format mount. The success of mirrorless began from Japan, from the young and female. A new niche was created, with ad campaigns priority to Asian shops, and success spread to the Dragons.
This is quite remarkable considering the long downturn, but it had limits. It spread v. slowly to Europe, and almost nothing to US.
Internet shops sell thousands, perhaps dozens of thousands, but to survive Oly and Panny need hundred of thousands. If they can’t forecast that they are not going to stock brick and moratrs shops.
Quite different the situation in Singapore and other Dragons, where shops are packed with new mirrorless.
Up to a point, due to the shift in the focus of economic development. Oly and Panny can simply afford to ignore the West, especially if defiant attitudes persist.
The patient attitude of Mr. Terada is witness that they are aware that we exist as enthusiasts, but we simply don’t provide the same numbers of Asia. And possibly not even the prospect, because meanwhile the new generations are going smart phone.
Cute discussion, if a little embarrassing. Pontifications by individuals with little knowledge on what is wrong with Americans for not buying their products.
As though there is a divine right that everyone must buy consumer products from one commercial corporation, and if one freely chooses not to buy said brands, he must be psychoanalyzed, perhaps thrown into re-education camps for not embracing the groupthink of the glorious revolution.
Good job guys.
In a few weeks, some American will be googling around, looking for a camera. In the course of that, he’ll read this website. The naive and trite generalizations here will come across as a real turn-off.
Who hired you guys to write these replies, Nikon or Canon marketing? Because you sure as hell aren’t doing micro 4/3 any good.
+1^99
Thats the funniest thing… the funny thing is, Canon and Nikon are not American companies. AND last I checked, DSLRs are selling the best, EVERYWHERE. Lol
Frankly, in the face of all the filth that has been thrown at m4/3 by cowardly nicks and trolls like you, it’s only just to start some naming and shaming.
Hypocrite tears, I suppose, are just part of the scoundrel’s retribution…
I honestly believe the US is about ready to join the rest of the world in seeing the benefits of a smaller, lighter camera system. I’m writing this while on a cruise ship Antarctica with 400 guests. Every day for the past two weeks, I’ve had 2-4 people per day wanting more information on the “small camera” I’m working with, the Lumix GH3. Most are shooting DSLR’s, some are shooting point and shoots, all are amazed at the quality of the camera, the photos it’s producing and the fact it is so light and small. This is not new, I’m also seeing interesting the Mirrorless cameras from all of our photo tour guests. The tide is about to switch and I’m betting we’ll see it in the numbers within 6-8 months.
Daniel J. Cox
http://www.naturalexposures.com
I’m an industrial salesman. There are things that are very, very difficult to advertise or make use of in a sales discussion. This includes “smaller”, “savings”, “less”, (…)
Like an example? My BMW in 2008 had start-stop and a really low consumption, standard, lower than Mercs or VW at that point in time. Did BMW advertise this? NO. Why? Because such attributes are “mega no nos” in advertising. It took them years to invent the slogan of “efficient dynamics”. Or would you associate BMW with the attribute “it gives me savings”? But it does.
Having that said, smaller size and weight of total gear is one major advantage of M43. This might not be for everyone and there might be other advantages. Most attributes are on level with other systems.
Targeting large consumer groups with a size advantage and a “Me Too” for the rest of attributes at higher price?
Really, really difficult.
Maybe the Japanese like the form factor and maybe European enthusiasts like smaller size of gear.
What do Americans like?
Marketing means to adjust a company to a market. Not the other way round (very, very difficult to create a market. Only very few success stories in the past). I think marketing of M43 therefore is quite good: product does not really fit American’s need, so they don’t put efforts in marketing communications in this area.
Did Oly and Pana ever try advertising? Maybe M43 is good for hiking? Is good trekking equipment something that Americans like? Or at least is appealing to some? Then I could envision a nice advertising campaign.
Thomas, M43 user since 2010.
1) cheaper prices – smaller lens have to be cheaper then bigger
2) lens price = lens size – lens with filter size 58mm should have similar price in all systems (similiar cost of production), therefore there are two ways:
– small lenses with small filter size, cheaper then DSLR lenses
– ultrafast lenses with the same filter size with similar pricess, for example – 12-35mm f/2.8 has 58mm filter, 12-40mm f/2.8 has 62mm filter, if Oly/Panas will make zoom with 77mm filter it could have price similar to 24-70/2.8L mkI, but will be at lease f/2 or faster
3) big cameras and big lenses (ultrafast) for US market – Americans like big things, big cars, big burgers and big cameras and lenses
Size and price are not directly related, actually, the correlation between quality and price is much stronger then between size and price.
Want a smaller phone with the same kind of functionality and power as your current one? Count on it being more expensive. Want it smaller and better? count on it being even more expensive or just having to wait a while for the technology to become more commonplace, and you can have it smaller and more powerful, but, there will at a price be even more powerful and smaller ones.
The reasoning you are posting is sadly not uncommon in the USA, but it is factually wrong.
To witness, 2 lenses with 58mm filter thread are supposedly about as big in diameter, so should use approx the same amount of glass and should be approx equally difficult to make?
That ignores so many factors it isn’t even funny, but let me give you a few such factors:
– 2 lenses for different systems will use different designs even if they have the same focal length and aperture, because they will be providing different fields of view and will require different correction. Hence, both will have to recoup the R&D for this design, and their prices will mostly be affected by the projected sales numbers, and not by material cost.
– a smaller sensor system with a higher pixel density will require higher resolution lenses, but those lenses don’t have to cover as big an image circle. This results in needing less but higher quality glass generally. It will certainly result in different designs (see first point)
So, what you say is a simplification to such an extend that it misses totally essential points for the argument you try to make.
Surprised that China doesn’t get its own named slice in the chart yet
Seems my oly out of the US market may be the best thing Oly could do. Been saying it for some time now.
Well it takes two to tango, and while we know that here we are evenly split between American and European enthusiast, the reality out there is a bit different.
Camera companies still welcome the West, but they don’t NEED it. So certain colours, or models you’ll have to order from Asia.
At least Sony and Panasonic are spending big marketing bucks in the future:
Sony: official partner of the 2014 FIFA world football championships
Panasonic: official partner of the Rio 2016 Olympics (+ Samsung)
Billions of people will watch those events
I see no Canon, Nikon, Olympus etc. there, they are probably too small compared to big electronics companies to afford the marketing campaigns
I agree with Taran, Twoomy, RC and others. I’m from the UK but I live most of the year in the USA, near Knoxville, Tennessee. I’m a Four Thirds user for 4 years, and MFT for the last 12 months. I strongly believe that the reason mirrorless cameras are not catching on in the USA is that most people don’t even know what they are. To see a camera “in the flesh” you have to go to a retail outlet. There are few specialized camera shops left, and the two in my area have closed down. The branches of Target occasionally have a Sony Nex or Nikon 1. The same goes for Best Buy, Costco and Walmart. I’ve never seen a Panasonic mirrorless or Olympus mirrorless camera in any of these stores. Either Canon and Nikon are using influence to squeeze them out or Oly/Pany are not serious about marketing in the USA. If this situation continues, only the enthusiasts who read the photo-press and websites will make the switch. I also agree with a comment made earlier that Micro Four Thirds is not a good name from a marketing perspective, and I think Compact System Camera (CSC) makes more sense.
Best comment ever that sums up Micro Four Thirds in the United States.
The only places I know of where you can actually touch a M43 camera is B&H and Adorama. You got to a best buy and ask for M43 and you’ll see a lot of dumb looks.
yeah I agree with most of the posters above, americans don;t know the difference, we like things big, and heck the Nikon and Canon DSLRs are great products and easy to use.
I have had at least 6 mirror less cameras and I’m on board. I also think americans will come around, it just takes some time.
My landlord asked me “what camera do I buy to take pics of my kids?” I gave him a bunch of choices all mirror less and high end compact. He bought a huge Nikon behemoth. The other day he said to me, ” you know I never take out the camera, it’s too big, i should have listened to you”.
Now I don’t think a lot of people are listening to me, but first they buy the bazooka of a camera and then realize it;s too much for them and the next camera they buy for the wife or the high school kid is going to be smaller.
I walk around the city with many different cameras, Fuji X-E1, Panny G7, Sony RX 1 and I am always stopped by someone who asks. “what is that camera? That is so cool. I wish I had that instead of my big Canon.
Hang in there Mirrorless you are the future! Just listen to the feedback of photographers not marketers!
I was born in Europe and live in the USA! I spend about 33% of every year outside the USA. Putting all of the hate speeches and completely uninformed speeches above aside; in the USA, the vast majority of people are influenced heavily by what they see on TV and TV’s commercials. I have never seen an Olympus m43 commercial, I have never seen a Panasonic G commercial, heck I have never even seen a Sony Alpha or NEX commercial on TV. But just about any night and especially during sporting events, I will see multiple Canon Rebel commercials or Nikon photo product commercials. The public in the USA is programmed by this advertising to desire Canon or Nikon. And those two push DSLRs primarily and the price of the lower end DSLRs, especially when on sale, often are less than many, much less capable point and shoot cameras. Even those that want a Panasonic m43 system often faces unavailability of the latest stuff for 6 months after the rest of the world gets it. Panasonic repair service that is far and away the worst in the industry in the US and Olympus repair is the slowest of any major camera brand in the US. All of this is a great set-up for low sales.
EJ: I agree with your comments about USA buyers (I too was born in Europe and live in the USA).
As for Olympus repairs, I want to put in a good word for them: last month I sent in my OM-D E-m5 for warranty repair of the (possibly harmless) “screw-crack” on the LCD screen. They shipped it back (from Connecticut) within 4 days. And, without asking, they also gave it a complete check and clean, and updated it to the latest firmware, AND they replaced the viewfinder rubber surround, which had gotten stretched loose (I had not asked for this). All under warranty. Pretty darned good service in my case.
That’s great on the quick repair, hope that they have turned around their 6 to 8 week repair turn around average around and are making strides.
OK, I went a little “around” crazy in that last post 🙂
The onlytime I had to ship an Oly for repair I was told that their average delay was TEN days, plus five for shipping back and forth. And so it was.
Please consider that we have TWO years of warranty, and that I NEVER expected to see an Oly in a shop, having always ordered from the Internet, so I don’t take excuses for cameras not being in brick and mortar shop.
I also consider how overblown expectations are in the US, considfering that we subsidize their buys by a 30% and that they even have a trial period of which they often abuse, trying various cameras without even an intention of buying it.
Suits them v. well not to have the mauve model, or the pink elephant one 🙂
I think this has to do with “bigger is better” culture in US, it has more to do with appearences than essence and this is not just about photography.
Well, Renato, when it comes to camera formats and image quality, bigger IS better, and it has nothing to do with appearances, it’s just physics. Moreover, bigger is cheaper when it comes to DSLRs vs micro 4/3. One can buy a Canon DSLR with two lenses for half the price of the EM1 body alone. Actually, this sounds sensible.
It’s up to micro 4/3 to explain and convince the average consumer against his better judgement why he should pay more money for a smaller sensor camera.
That right there is your basic issue. And you know what? The value proposition just isn’t there.
Your American consumer shows no signs of damage from your lack of micro 4/3 marketing. Why SHOULD he care?
Want to sell micro 4/3? Olympus has announced it will reduce its lesser micro 4/3 offerings and focus on the high end. So convince the consumer to pay $1400 for a micro 4/3 camera body vs $450 for a 2-lens DSLR, for equivalent image quality and focus speed?
How can micro 4/3 compete with these kinds of prices? It can’t. Instead, it will focus on a dedicated if shrinking customer base of fans. This may even keep the format alive for a couple more years. After that: Olympus nailed the EM1 so well on every aspect except size and weight; Panasonic hit a home run with the GX7… how on earth do you follow those up? It will be difficult, with minor improvements, to get customers to part with $1600 for the follow-on bodies.
So let’s all enjoy this while we can, because the value proposition is going sideways, I hate to say.
“Well, Renato, when it comes to camera formats and image quality, bigger IS better, and it has nothing to do with appearances, it’s just physics”
No, that statement is ignorant because it focuses on one very specific detail of the equation at the expense of all other relevant details.
If what you say were true, we’d still be using a sensor the size of the first glass negatives, because well, those are much much bigger, and hence much much better.
The basic problem with your reasoning is that better in numbers in a very specific aspect does not at all mean better suited for real-world usage, and for photography, that is what counts, not the theoretical ‘how many photons can I gather per pixel’ type argument, unless you also consider that that camera being left at home is not going to collect many photons at all.
In other words, looking at image quality without consideration for actual use is just number wanking and has absolutely zero to do with if a camera is better in any practical sense.
you don’t do a service to your co-citizens. Let me repeat yaa’s statement instead:
“To witness, 2 lenses with 58mm filter thread are supposedly about as big in diameter, so should use approx the same amount of glass and should be approx equally difficult to make?
That ignores so many factors it isn’t even funny, but let me give you a few such factors:
– 2 lenses for different systems will use different designs even if they have the same focal length and aperture, because they will be providing different fields of view and will require different correction. Hence, both will have to recoup the R&D for this design, and their prices will mostly be affected by the projected sales numbers, and not by material cost.
– a smaller sensor system with a higher pixel density will require higher resolution lenses, but those lenses don’t have to cover as big an image circle. This results in needing less but higher quality glass generally. It will certainly result in different designs (see first point)”
This is the difference between one who understands photography, and one who lashes blindly.
BTW even within m4/r can witness how cheap some models can go after one year or two, and how some keep their value (much) longer. including lenses.
One wonders therefore if Japanese are more attentive at what they buy, or understand better photography.
Spray and pray, even when buying is not a great idea. Not even on the basis of a couple of features, like price and Mpx.
Otherwise one wonders what you’d be doing here.
kiddo.. you should learn how to read graphs… nowhere in this graphs can you see a growth. for that you need a second graph from early times to compare with.
bot of these charts just show the actuall market share.
get some basic education…
Who cares? As long as they close up shop altogether.
* dont * close up shop, I mean.
Bigger is better. How does that explain the Fiats all over the place? 🙂
I am no pro and no fanboy, but the reason I buy into MFT is for the video/photo balance. This is Olympus problem IMHO. Panasonic’s problem is not exploiting that this is the best reason for MFT and why it justifies a higher price. Video by the masses is what’s growing.
You know I smile when I read these anti-American posts. Why? Simply because it’s primarily a case of sour grapes. Over time I’ve grown used to a certain degree of ethnocentrism emanating from some European individuals, realizing it’s just a pervasive sense of either financial or political envy in them. Not all Europeans, not by a long shot thankfully. But there will always be individuals who have to make things an US vs THEM argument to feel better about themselves and their status in life. Nowhere once in this article did I hear that a major multinational corporation would be foolish to write off one of the largest consumer markets in the world, with an economy that is far outpacing the contracting economy of Europe. Ditto for the potential market size. Thankfully, none of these individuals are running either MFT company.
Mind you, nowhere did I say broadly paint an entire continent of individuals with a derogatory brush. There are idiots everywhere. But I can think of plenty of Europeans and Americans who are far better human beings than the ignorant, insecure, and self-centered trolls I’ve seen on this forum.
@Disappointed
to be honest it wouldn’t surprise me if some of it was a case of trolls and shills pretending to be anti-American (possibly from the USA itself) to cause friction on 43rumors…
Or more exactly of constant m4/3 nagging always coming from American trolls, in their most vulgar language?
How come others don’t even dare? Ask yourselves before complaining…
I agree. It is truly disappointing to read such anti American comments. Photography is a hobby of mine. It should strive to bring out the best in life and unite the world making it a less @$@$ed up place… . The more I read these sites the more I get turned off by them. But, these comments prove there are just as many A-holes in other parts of the world as there are in my country.
As pointed out in previous posts of similar pie charts these are not the sales figures only camera shipped data as noted in the subheading under the charts. If the figures posted earlier by Person are correct the proportion of worldwide sales of DSLR to MILC systems is roughly 3 to 1 and the same ratio for sales in Asia ( World 1.4m DSLR +0.45m MILC) (Asia 0.5 DSLR + 0.16 MILC). I think both will continue to co-exist as many use both systems depending on their needs and I expect this will continue especially with the rise of small cameras like the GM1 and others.
There are plenty of reasons which all are factors in the current situation. First when m4/3 was first introduced as the smaller more compact alternative the auto focus was relatively slow and EVF view relatively low resolution as compared to view thru larger DSLRs with optical viewfinders and poorer high ISO performance so lost its initial momentum. The technologies now are much advanced hence m4/3 can compete technically as regards to IQ and AF speed and not just on the basis of size but DSLRs have also improved. Although many semi pro DSLRs are huge in comparison there are a number of smaller models like those produced by Pentax (Kx,K50) and now a smaller model by Canon and midsized very capable entry intermediate models by both Nikon and Canon at good prices and the availability and wider choice of many lenses already owned by photographers is a factor.
Certainly the lack of marketing in US has hurt Oly and Pany but remember these companies are not out to win every market but to make money so they will produce and sell to where there is the greatest profit margin for them and for currency reasons. I believe that m4/3 held on to higher prices for too long and now because of the huge discounts to reduce inventories buyers are less likely to buy at full price and wait for sales instead. The US is not alone in this as camera sales worldwide are in an upheaval partly due to the rise of the iphone technology. Even in Japan for the first half of the year Pany was riding the crest in their sales of m4/3 cameras only to plunge in more recent months? Many on this and other photographer forums seem to make too much of the need for less depth of field ie larger sensors and faster but expensive lenses while the majority taking pictures with iphones and compacts with smaller sensors like the much greater depth of field and wide angle for general and landscape photography not to mention the convenience of size.
I personally own DSLRs and m4/3 and travel compacts but use the latter and former the most.
Americans are slow to change from the outside, but easily change from the inside, if that makes any sense. This thread is like chumming for sharks.
All Americans most probably shoot sports events nothing else.
In an already DSLR saturated market (US), it’ll take time to achieve a reasonable marketshare for mirrorless, while it may be faster in a new market (China), what do you think?
Maybe someone already pointed that (sorry, I’m late and didn’t read all messages), but it’s a bit hard to affirm that “Asian countries are rapidly switching from DSLR to Mirrorless cameras” only with an october 2013 chart…
Is there an october 2012 chart as a reference point?
People here do not pay more for small things. Small things require less material, less money to transport = should cost less in the store.
Brilliant anology. Just brilliant. I’m gonna rush out and order another Patek Philippe watch based on this brand new paradigm. Said no sane person ever.
What the heck are you smoking kimosabe?
Patek Philippe? What luxury name has to do with it?
Americans are too fat to use mirrorless anyway 😛