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It was only two weeks ago that Panasonic announced the new 20mm pancake. And nobody really seems to remember the event anymore. And when you look at the current Amazon popularity ranking (Click here to see it) you will see how the “older” 20mm pancake lens still sells far…but really far far far better than the new version (You will have a hard time to find the new 20mm version within the top 100). NOTE: The ranking contains both orders and preorders! If you scroll the ranking you will find the G6, E-P5 and other stuff that isn’t in Stock now.
Back to the new 20mm lens: The only new “feature” of the new version is the chassis. All the rest is the same. And that’s the problem. The older 20mm has become a legend while the new version is not. A faster AF or slightly better optical performance would have been welcome. Hopefully Panasonic will listen to us like they did on the soon to come GX7 🙂
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Olympus E-PM1 with lens for $249 on [shoplink 40180 ebay]eBay US (Click here)[/shoplink].
48 Responses
the problem is that unlike Fuji or just like the majority of manufacturers, Panasonic took quite a while to listen to us, at least one or two years, hopefully this time it will be quicker.
I hardly believe that any corporation read 3rd party discussions, even here. You must push it on social networks or be a know pro/company in order to be listened.
Pana doesn’t have the same Pro following as Canon etc. so they took 4 year to understand that Pros wanted a GH camera as a serious video camera. wasting loads of time and money with cameras that were good, but not what users wanted like the AF100.
Same thing for stills, the GF1 was amazing and since then they upgraded ( rather dumbed it down )it 3 times GF2/GF3/GF5/ just to come back to the GX1.
With all due respect, Japanese can be very close minded and sttuborn and are not quick witted like the chinese or practical like thr koreans.
They also have a hard time understanding the west mindset…
I think they took 4 years just because they are Japanese…
Canon, Nikon, all the same…
Fuji and Sony are innovating because they found a niche but make no mistake the Japanese are never listening…
I take offence to that imprecise generalisation.
Company management rarely listens but the engineers are always interested in solving problems. Besides, it’s typical of managers of a certain age anywhere in the world to not listen–like General Motors. They just want the underlings to do the work while they collect the money.
Did not mean to offend but I have had lots of contact with Chinese, Koreans and Japanese for the last 15 years and I am married to a Korean. Generalisations are what they are anyway… On plus side I think Japanese can be very creative and are great problem solvers… But still sttuborn and generally close minded until proven wrong… when they’ll then apologise to no end..
Being a Japanese, I mostly agree with what you say about Japanese. It depends where you look in the social hierarchy though. Things generally get a lot worse if you move up the food chain. Can’t judge if the things you say about Chinese and Koreans is true though. If anything, I’ve experienced rather often that Korean parents tend to be absolutely intolerant with their children.
However, I’ve got to say one thing. I’ve lived in Europe for the past 20 years and sadly, I’ve not seen many companies listening to their customers. They also are a lot less reliable and they don’t apologize at all. Japanese apologies are mostly superficial but they also have some material form.
Imagine we had for instance a German company like Leica running the mass camera market. A company that suddenly ditches a mount that had still had a lot of users (Leica R). Would you prefer that?
You got a lot of good points there.
And you are right about Korean parents, and actually the whole society as whole is very demanding on their expectations on people…
Also, my dad is German and my mom half German, so I know first hand Germans can be stubborn as hell too…
But I guess we are getting a bit off topic 🙂
Well, why would people spend a bit more (~5%) on something almost identical but not available yet? Especially given how unlikely it is that it’ll actually ship when it says… Remember the new 14-140? That was supposed to ship weeks ago and it’s still out of stock! According to BH it won’t ship for months more still! I suspect that with these new versions Panasonic is delaying shipment until the old version sells out.
Anyway, I predict that after the ver II ships it’ll overtake the ver I quite quickly unless the price of the latter drops off by a fair margin.
But hey, if I’m wrong and people would rather have the old one, I’d be happy to trade if you’ve got one! (Personally, I think I like the ver I look a little better, but I’d rather have the metal body and fixed filter threads.)
I think people are waiting to see if the banding problem on high res sensor bodies like e-m5 and GH3 are solved in the new one. I personally hope that’s the reason for the remake. If it turns out to be true, the new one will sell well.
Since the banding problem doesn’t concern owners of other bodies like older Panasonic MFTs, the old one will definitely still sell well. It’s pointless comparing the sales of a classical product to something not in stock yet.
That’s exactly it for me. I will get it if it fixes the banding issue. So I have to wait for the lens to be released and the reviews to come in.
Given the perceived lack of real improvements it makes sense that most aren’t willing to wait another month to get the new version. I would only get this in a kit with the GX7, as I have no use for entry-level kit zooms.
I believe the purpose of this new 20mm F1.7 is more on upgrade in cosmetic rather than optic .
As Pana is heading for highend cameras line up , this lens likely to support Pana’s cameras to have a “Pro” look . Nothing more .
Ignore it if you already got the old one .
I can accept this but cannot tolerance if the new GX fail to make it big step forward over the famous GX1 .
Any idea if the new 20mm is any smaller than the old one? The old one is a bit chunky (particularly compared to the Oly 17mm) and a reduction in size makes it a little more pocketable. Worth an upgrade, no. But I sold most of my m43 equipment to friends and may buy back into it a bit (I couldn’t sell my Voigt 0.95’s, and they’re collecting dust.)
The new 20mm is actually a tiny bit bigger than the old, so there’s no size improvements here.
Yeah, it’s pretty hard to imagine how an in stock lower priced item can outsell a higher priced item that isn’t available.
Amazon ranking counts preorders and sales!
They count preorders, don’t you think most people that want one, can buy the old one because the optics haven’t changed?
If I didn’t have one, and didn’t want to wait another month, I would buy the old one as well. It’s only logical.
Agreed, its been two weeks and already a front page post of how it is a failure? With no reviews and no user experience? Bad admin
Yet the 17mm gets a misleading post about how its “close” in performance to the 25mm when the review clearly states you have to stop it down all the way to f4 to get those results. Heck the 25mm even at f2 is sharper. Why didn’t you mention that?
Admin please dont fall into the state of mind of some of the readers here.
I think Panasonic heard all the people crying that they could not buy black or silver versions of lenses to match their camera body, and there seem to be a lot of them.
I would be interested in buying it if the banding issue and auto focus speed have both been fixed. For now, I can use the full-sized Four-Thirds 25mm f/1.4 lens on an adapter with manual or auto focus.
I got the 20 when it first came out with the GF1 and to be honest, the focusing sucked from the get go. After getting the 25, the 20 collected dust, so I finally gave it to a kid that was into photography and couldn’t afford to buy one. Although I always like the size, I prefer 28 and 50 (equiv)focal lengths, so, I doubt I’ll ever buy a new one.
First off, the link is for SALES RANKING. The lens isn’t even OUT yet!! It comes out in August, a little less than a month away!
Nice way of putting a spin on a lens that “Nobody wants”, yet, it’s a lens that isn’t out yet.
I for one have the 20mm, the 25mm and will pick up this new 20mm when it finally comes out.
What’s going to be your excuse when the new 20mm comes out and shoots to the top of the “Best SELLING lenses” chart? -Y’know, when a lens is actually OUT and you can actually BUY one??
Fact is that the ranking lists sales and preorders!!!!
I want this lens, but only if it fixes the banding issue, so I have to wait for the reviews. No preordering for me.
For people who don’t care about the banding, the old lens is exactly the same for less.
Reading comprehension fail.
You forgot that the Olympus 17mm f1.8 was near the top of the sales ranking months before it was available. The Olympus 45mm was pretty high as well a month or so before release.
Its beyond belief that they re-released the lens…and did NOT improve the AF. Mind-boggling.
Production costs, my Phriend. 😉
As much as I love the 20mm, I found the 17/1.8 for only $370 not too long ago. No way I was passing it up at that price. I dismissed and hated on the 17 at first, but it has easily become my favorite lens that I own in this format. It’s a shame that they couldn’t offer silent and quicker focusing on the Mark II version, but it is what it is.
No reviews – No real life facts – So why is everybody nagging that it´s the same with a new exterior. It is not proven yet! And yes – I also don´t think the sales ratings (which include the preorders) are important.
Especially because: Everyone who wants the 20mm 1.7 NOW is buing the old one (because it´s available). And everyone else (like me for example) is waiting for reviews about the new version (and isn´t just preordering blindly – especially because there is for sure no “run” on the new version).
And btw.: Also if it´s really basically the same (only with a new exterior): Who cares. The new versions even have better dampened focus rings and the new exteriors are looking also quite nice. So if I can get the new version for the same price of the old one – why not ^^.
No, i want the new version if the banding problem is solved with OMD EM5 at high ISO !
The market is already saturated with the last edition of this marvel, so much that nobody wants the new one. Do you detect any sarcasm?
If you add the groups:
1. Need the lens right now
2. Have no idea that a new one has been launched and just bought the cheapest one
3. Think they get a new one
Then you proabley have accounted for 99% of the orders of the old one.
Anyone really interested in differences in performance would wait for comparisions and reviews.
this len is image and spec product ,what about it?
like abnormal ,no hand-on ,no preview
unlike new 14-42mm(II) or new 14-140mm (power OIS)
The old one is already so great that there isno need for Panasonic to alter it!
I have both. The new one has better contrast.
Panasonic didn’t update the 20 f/1.7 because desperate povos kept buying it when they were told to not buy it (to force Panasonic to update and improve the lens). Why bother updating something when it sells so well. “Just give them a cosmetic update.” Blame the users. So desperate for a lens they can’t hold back or get something else in the meantime.
#1 Sold lens for MFT, #1 used lens for MFT.
Yeah, don’t buy it, so they can update it… Doesn’t even make sense.
The lens is popular and wanted because of the size, focal length and what you can get out of it. Could they have made it faster? -Yes, but at what cost?
Maybe Olympus should’ve made a 20mm lens instead of the “so-so 17”, -Yes, that’s the nickname I dubbed it. But I think that if Olympus were to make a 20mm, it would’ve been almost twice the price as the Panny 20mm, so why even bother? Everyone would stick with the Panny 20mm.
People here are just worried that the new 20mm will take the sail out of the So-So 17, that’s all.
The 14 f/2.5 is cheap as chips (separated from kit) and has the improved faster AF. The 20 f/1.7 being the more premium lens should have the same high level of AF that Panasonic is known for. This is what doesn’t make sense. People have to buy what’s available I guess. The 20 is still a quality lens anyway. Would be even better with faster silent AF.
I wish panasonic would make a 25 pancake, but it looks like Olympus will be the one to do that and unfortunately, it will probably be bright silver, so I’ll never own one. Gawd, I wish Olympus wasn’t so damn stupid.
no improved autofocus no buy
Never loved the 20mm and sold it so I could upgrade the 25mm panaleica. If I were to chose between the 20mm and 17mm f/1.8 today, I’d take the 17 any day with its faster AF, scales/clutch manual focus/ability to hyperfocus, better bokeh and slightly wider view (to better differentiate from the 25). I know the 20 is smaller and has slightly better sharpness, but that’s not enough to win me over.
And forgot to add lack and banding on my E-M5. The slow AF, inability to focus at all in low light and no decent way to operate manually to compensate for these flaws is what turned me off to begin with.
No, no, no! Incorrect!
Most people, if not all, do not really need shooting at high ISO.
Can’t you see that is the same reason why Panasonic puts old sensors into their new GF-6 and G6?
You make too much out of Amazon rating. They aggregate history of purchases in some obscure way, and the new one is probably not available yet or just has become available.
Most camera buyers don’t spend all their time on the internet looking at the latest camera gear. I expect that most of these buyers don’t even know about the new lens, and that amazon want it to stay that way until they have got rid of their old stock.
“The only new ‘feature’ of the new version is the chassis.”
– have we verified this, or are we just assuming this at the moment?
The new 20mm has better contrast then the old one, so something must be different.