EOSHD – Panasonic GH3 test footage shot at Photokina 2012 from Andrew Reid on Vimeo.
EosHD posted and analyzed the pre-production video quality: “Dynamic range, noise grain and colour are improved big-style. I feel rolling shutter is less of an issue too. But fine details are not as stable as they were on the GH2 in this pre-production camera. Detail is superb, but if the pitch of texture is fine enough to invoke aliasing and moire you will get the instability I mentioned.”
There is also a new Panasonic interview at DC.watch. And once again Panasonic admitted that they are “thinking Full Frame” as a possibility for the future.
P.S.: Hands-on at Digitalcamerareview. Panasonic GH3 Multi Aspect Ratio Demo on Youtube.
—
Panasonic and Olympus Preorder Links with specs and price:
Special GH3 page at Amazon (Click here) and a full Olympus presentation page at Amazon (Click here).
GH3 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here) and in Europe at Wexphotographic UK (horrible price in UK!).
35-100mm X lens at Amazon (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here).
E-PL5 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here). In EU at Amazon Germany, Amazon UK, Amazon France,
E-PM2 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here). In EU at Amazon Germany, Amazon UK, Amazon France,
XZ-2 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here).
60mm macro at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here).
12mm Black prime lens at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here).
15mm cap-lens at Adorama (Click here).
81 Responses
if Panasonic is really serious to make FF camera,.they should act fast ,.Be The First FF mirrorless ILC ,.and use the L1 body as a deal breaker,..
But if Sony or Fuji come up first,.forget about it
It is important to realize that the GH3 will not ever be capable of doing the multi aspect ratio function. It does not have an oversized sensor like the GH2 and G5 have.
The rumors of a firmware upgrade that could enable it were false. Only the G5 could enable the multi aspect ratio via firmware.
It really isn’t a huge deal though. If the aliasing that is present in the pre-production models continues then that will be a much bigger issue.
I am a GH2 owner since it came out and delighted with it for the video use I mainly have it for. I have of course read many times about the “oversized” sensor in the GH2 however in every single reference page I have found the sensor size is listed at the mFT standard size. Has there been written evidence showing the exact “oversized” dimensions of the sensor from Panasonic and if so I would appreciate a link.
Funny how most 4/3 users (including the admin) remain entirely fascinated by the L1 (and LC-1) design while it just had nothing to do with Panasonic. This was a modified Leica Digilux 3 design and Panasonic did never complete anything close from that since 2007, maybe just because they were allowed to. The filiation with Leica designs was obvious and has nothing to do with the modern approach Panasonic followed since that time. BTW, the GH3 is the first of the G series that is truly successful from that point of view.
Seems odd timing for Panasonic to be mulling a FF direction – it is much more likely this rumor is based on a mistranslation. (See Yoshi’s post waaaaay down the bottom of this thread!)
Awesome track, sexy lady and cool magic. Must….resist…..urge……to…..buy…..another…..camera!!!!
Anyone else watch this because of the hot girl?
positive
Check.
+1
+1
Yes, the girl is pretty. I think it’s her skin color that has a special appeal. Outstanding for a video camera.
Of course!
Was there today. The girls are really pretty. Made a litle quiz with the photos. You can guess the manufacturer by some hints in the pictures – if don’t get distracted 🙂 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.483015911716794.114337.100000251693319&type=1&l=a86e5d2bec
Trotz Achtungmagnetdame könnte ich dass Alpha sehen…
New Review of Olympus ZD 60mm macro,.againts,.PL 45mm – CZ 50mm zf2 makro planar, and Nikon 60mm ,.at
http://blog.mingthein.com
Yes new review , with four different focal lengths and the Nikon is designed for a very different sensor , I have the Panasonic 45 and when comparing to my D800 with the 105 it sucks big time
That’s a terrible review. It would be a good review if the conclusion had been that the PL 45mm is neck-and-neck with the Oly 60mm, but the conclusion that the “60mm is the clear winner” is simply not supported by the author’s own photographic evidence.
I would completely disagree with that.
+10
Ming Thein has an impressive technical aptitude. His watch macro shots are gorgeous. Clearly this guy knows his shit… inside out. Lens, lighting, post processing… the works.
The more I see from the Oly 60mm, the more impressed I am. Even Robin Wong’s macro shots, which he openly admitted we’re not his strength, were able show some of it’s potential. It’s damn impressive, at an impressive price… $499. I guess I’m impressed! 😉
I own a Nikon 60mm f2.8D macro, the older version of the Nikon 60mm G macro Ming used, so am familiar with it. The Oly 60mm is simply sharper. When I get a chance to try the Oly 60mm, I may buy one and sell the Nikon.
And clearly you’re qualified to say someone “knows their shit”. So many armchair pros here.
And you’re qualified to judge that Mr. Reeee is not qualified? Or are you just arguing on principle?
Yes, in my bag a Carl Zeiss S-Planar 2,8 / 60mm 1:1 is waiting for the competition.
But I think the probably best Makro-lens of the digital era will succeed against the best lens of the anaolog era.
But, I’ll keep the Zeiss for a future cheap FF… Maybe from Panasonic?
Not saying that this is a bad review, but the results may be skewed a little by the camera used. It is well known that Olympus does not correct for CA, while Panasonic does. So, to conclude that the PL 45mm has more CA when testing it only on an Olympus body is not 100% accurate. Panasonic’s view is that because CA can be effectively corrected in software, the lens can be made either cheaper or better in other areas. What would have made this an outstanding review is to also test the lenses on a GH2. That said, I agree that the new ZD Macro is an excellent lens. If I didn’t already own the PL 45mm, I would get the ZD because of lower price and slightly longer focal length. I just wish somebody would make a 100mm macro for m4/3. The added depth of field and effective 2 times more magnification of m4/3 makes it great for macro work!
Testing four different lenses with four different focal lengths two of which are designed for a totally different sensor size is hardly informative , the Nikon when mounted on a FF body will easily outresolve anything on mFT.I own both the 45mm and the Olympus 50mm FT macros the 50mm macro is better than the 45mm though the 45 is no slouch . I would have prefered to see the Olympus 50mm compared to the 60
Panasonic admitted that they are “thinking Full Frame” as a possibility for the future.
Sony made them think… Now that they buy 1/2.33″ Sony sensors, why not FF as well?
Link that shows they buy Sony sensors?
For example http://www.43rumors.com/panasonic-also-using-sony-sensors-at-least-on-the-new-lx7/
p&s sensors are commodities and even Canon uses Sony sensors in its p&s models. Using such a bitter rival’s product in what is Panasonics range topping model would be commercial suicide . A lot of these claims come from the Olympus fans who belive the sunshines from the E-M5.Fact is the GH2 sensor was a very decent performer and even with the new sensor in the E-M5 it is not even a full stop ahead.I cannot see why Pansonic are not capable of designing a new sensor in two years since the GH2
> Using such a bitter rival’s product in what is Panasonics range topping model would be commercial suicide
Just before cheap entry-level DSLRs all big camera brands used Sony’s 2/3″ sensor in their flagship fixed lens prosumer so that much for your theory.
And Panasonic and Sony have really more worries from Korean competition. They’re actually cooperating to develop and manufacture bigger OLED displays to better fight success of Korean competitors.
Sure E-M5’s noise performance isn’t revolutionary jump compared to later Panasonic sensors than that ancient 12MP junk but dynamic range increase is notable:
http://admiringlight.com/blog/olympus-e-m5-vs-panasonic-gh2-dynamic-range-battle/
Also Panasonic sensors doesn’t seem that great for higher ISO longer exposure night sky astrophotographs compared to images taken with E-M5. (shadow noise affects lot to those)
If Panasonic think FF is this maybe Sensor to Leica M or camera similar the, anyway new camera and new lens if Panasonic for them will start FF line self.
And maybe OM-E 😉
was there something else except the hot girl?
Nothing of photographic substance.
The girl helped, but the only thing I get a bit tired of is this FF-fight. I don’t think this is good for a company to sell m43 lenses, especially in the same week as announcing the most expensive lens so far… I’ll keep my money in the bank for a few more months. A good GX2 might get some out, but if all research is going into FF, that could well be my last m43. On the other hand, it would be nice if Leica would help to produce a cheaper competitor against Fuji with a good (10MP) m43 crop-mode.
Is it me, or is there some glitches? Like dropped frames or is there odd edits?
+1, I thought it was download problems but seeing as someone else has experienced same thing, I wonder. Also thought there were some realy strange skin tones, giving a greenish tinge, though might have been a lighting problem, still didn’t look good if you are trying to sell the camera.
Congratulate me I joined the MFT club!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally that is.. Couldn’t wait any longer for the GH3 and the GH2 is no longer available so went with the OMD .. will have it delivered next week hopefully. Got the kit lens and the 45mm f1.8
Was it the juicy model who converted you? 😉
you will enjoy….ALL of THAT! Throughly.
I would rather see someone working on a S35 Sensor… FullFrame is a bit too shallow in terms of lowlight+sharpness
Anyways it´s a bad idea of panasonic publicly thinking of going FF… makes me really want to join the M43 train right now..
I agree with jevfp .
Once Sony or Fuji launch it’s first interchangeable ff mirrorless , it is all over for Pana & Oly .
So Pana , don’t think but act .
We will not care what kind of sensors , Pana is using , as long as it deliver something that is up to expectation .
Only a L1 style camera that will guarantee success in the process .
> Once Sony or Fuji launch it’s first interchangeable ff mirrorless , it is all over for Pana & Oly .
LOL. And for how many companies the “all over” happened after 5D and D700 releases? Right – zero.
> Only a L1 style camera that will guarantee success in the process .
Were the L1 a commercial success, I bet Panny would have released a successor long time ago.
P.S. Stop pining for the FFjords. The parrot is long dead.
Panasonic! Return multi-aspect sensor to GH cameras!
FF mirrorless would be wonderful, but yet another system and the years of waiting for a full line of lenses… I’ll get excited about this in 2016.
The difference is for Nikon at least the already have the tech in place for a fully working adapter that gives proper AF speeds so while you are waiting on the mirrorless versions to come along you can at least have access to a huge system. Size is not the only advantage of a mirrorless system, for me mirror less is a better tool for video, and I like EVF tech such as zoom to manual focus etc .Though the EVF tech will need to improve if it is to match or better FF viewfinders
This person had the GH3 for 3 hours and wrote his impressions.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=42560314
This will be be my next camera. Unless I catch a GX1 on sale at Amazon again. Then I’ll pick this up afterwards.
Dam that looks good! Cant wait to see more. Strange stuttering but I think that was the edit or buggy firmware.
On the pixel peeping side of things there is some morie @ 1:01 on that guys shirt. I think that is something that the GH2 would have handled better but the footage still looks good.
This clip looks pretty amazing…EXCEPT… the moire is quite bad. This is still a pre-production camera, so maybe they’ll fix it. Glad I have a Red Epic. 🙂
That EOSHD clip looks pretty amazing…EXCEPT… the moire is quite bad. This is still a pre-production camera, so maybe they’ll fix it. Glad I have a Red Epic. 🙂
Agreed! I’ve used the GH1 and GH2 a lot over the past few years, and moire has never been an issue. I certainly hope this is a pre-production issue. If I wanted moire/aliasing in my video, I’d buy a Canon DSLR and at least have a better stills camera.
What I find most interesting is the EOSHD presentation is the breakdown showing the GH3 inner parts for the first time. If you have been following or remember Pany’s patent for a rangefinder model with swivel EVF in left far corner that in my opinion is what is likely coming as the next platform based on this GH3? Note that all the cameras basic mechanical structures are all contained in a low long rectangular solid unit with enough depth to house the EVF unit to left of the LCD. This would give the new GXP1 the same capabilities of the GH3 but maybe fewer controls but in a more attractive portable form for many. It would still have the good grip for handling of the larger new fast lenses and large battery but would be bigger than the NEX7/6.
For the GX2 small size I project Pany will include the same sensor, processor as GH3 and include a OLED screen and EVF either optional or inbody if the GXP1 as described above does not materialize first?
If Panny does go full frame, I hope they are smart enough to offer an m43 adapter and an m43 crop mode in the camera. Which means the flange to focal distance needs to be shorter than m43.
But at least then we can use m43 glass on it until a bunch of FF AF glass is available.
That will be asking an awful lot of the sensors light collecting ability in the far corners, larger sensor shorter flange distance, sensors are already struggling at the extreme edges now showing vignetting problems, imagine the extreme angle light will fall on the sensor in those circimstances of shorter flange and larger sensor.
Of course they could always just mount the FF lenses further out as if it had a longer flange the focal plane distance. By making it part of the lens barrel rather than part of the body.
I mean when you think about it, without the need for a mirrorbox, why do the bodies need all that distance inside of them, when they could build the necessary distance into the lens and nearly mount the sensor flush to the body.
That would indeed be awesome. Pany, have you read that?
My only concern, is If Pany goes full frame, they will drop us in their wake, like a loaded baby’s diaper. They want us to have to buy a whole new system and are not interested in people that whine about having to spend their hard earned money on a new system. They will probably also stop making M/43 bodies, like they did 4/3 bodies, so you won’t even be able to use your lenses, when your current bodies bite the dust.
FF?
FF……. so i do not buy gh-3
Think the FF /af200 and the
Shadow of it is seen next 3
Months, otherwise the Interviews
would not be so ” encrypted”…..
It would be a mistake for Panasonic or Olympus to go FF MILC in the enthusiast and prosumer markets. The m43 MILC format and latest sensor is ideal for most photography – great detail, great depth of field, good DR, little artefacts (moire, banding, highlight blowout, lost shadow detail etc) – and superb videos at high bit rate with little compression. The enthusiast prosumer market is very cost conscious and you cannot deliver a FF system with the same functionality and quality at anywhere near a competitive price point. When Sony steps into the FF MILC, and they will very soon, Canon will fight back aggressively, and Nikon will do their best to hang in there (and Leica will be Leica, and not really part of the equation). Much better for Panasonic and Olympus to continue to plow steadily but surely up the middle of the field.
While I generally agree with you. Panny and Oly have carved a niche for themselves and going FF would defeat that purpose as well as confuse their lineup of lenses and camera bodies.
But I also question how much more resolution they can get out of a m43 sized sensor. They have pretty well capped themselves at 16MP right now and are just improving image quality. Which is great. But what happens when we get to 8K video that requires 32MP resolution? Will that even be a game they play or will they cap out at 4K (8MP) video?
Even if they decided to stay with only 4K video once they got to that resolution, the ability to sample down from 8K to 4K would increase color and overall resolution of the output image. Which is something that cameras like the Sony F65 are doing right now.
Granted I’m thinking 5-10 years down the line, but a company should think of these things when considering the long term viability of their camera system/sensor size. Of course if they can dramatically increase the capability of their sensors at the m43 size, without sacrificing low-light, dynamic range, IQ and so on, then that could be the solution. But at this point a lot of people are convinced it’s a physics issue and that you just can’t pile more pixels into a sensor that size without sacrifice.
I think you’re getting a little ahead of yourself. With no commercially available display devices, 4K isn’t even really here yet, so we’ve got at LEAST another 5 years before we even have to START worrying about 8K. And I’m really not convinced yet that 4K is going to go over all that big in the home market, certainly not right away.
I don’t see sensor resolution for 8K as a problem at all. 32MP is only a doubling of today’s mFT-sensors and if you scale the RX100 sensor to mFT-size then you’re already there with a wide margin.
Lens resolution might be a bigger problem though and diffraction will hit with even fairly large aperture values. Still, I believe mFT will do 8K fine for most uses and pros who need the absolute best high Iso quality and FOV control will choose bigger sensors anyway.
meh Im fine with m43 as long as they keep improving sensors. Im not into the whole lolbokeh craze, and one of the strengths of m43 is a small system made up of small lenses. I doubt a FF mirrrorless would be able to shrink lenses like the Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100mm.
Exactly.
People pining for FF should go compare m43 cameras and lenses to APS-C and FF setups on Camerasize. The size differences are astonishing. To me, it’s pretty obvious which system I’d rather carry at an event or on a long journey.
Sony’s RX-1 is getting FF right and getting back to basics in terms of body size.
When they release an interchangeable lens version… watch out!
> When they release an interchangeable lens version… watch out!
Watch out what? RX1 is larger than the GX1 + 20mm/17mm.
As an enthusiast thing, RX1 is good. But still, if I were in the market, I would have probably went with the X100 instead.
http://camerasize.com/compact/#376,133,ha,f
P.S. And still no login button 🙁
The GX1 is tiny and the RX-1 isn’t much larger. Even if an RX-2 were GH2 sized, it would still be tiny compared to the twin jokes the Nikon D600 or Canon 6D are size/weight-wise.
I own a GH2 and mainly use adapted manual prime lenses, and would use the same lenses with adaptors. You KNOW Rainbow Imaging would make them… so, the negative full-frame lens size thing one hears a lot of wailing about would simply not be an issue for me. I’d happily use my Voigtländer, Nikon and Pentax SMC Takumar lenses on it and probably not even bother buying native lenses.
You mean basic unergonomics of piece of wooden plank…
And not likely to happen in similar size.
With that short lens to sensor distance microlens array must have been designed together with lens to avoid bad oblique angle light problems.
And microlens array heavily customized for certain light path from lens would surely cause problem for system.
Remember that also X-Pro 1 seems to have some problems in edge/corner resolution with wide angles. (though not as bad as in NEX-7)
> I doubt a FF mirrrorless would be able to shrink lenses like the Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100mm.
Nahh…. Real gem of 4/3 sensor is Panasonic Leica D 14-150mm with measures of 79x90mm and 535g.
Comparison to 92x184mm/1670g Canon EF 28-300mm L isn’t even completely fair for Leica D because of Canon having lower optical quality. (just forget Nikkor AF-S 28-300mm, it’s way too undersized for even generic Sigma/Tamron performance outside center)
And only place where mirrorless design really allows freedom to make smaller lenses is focal lengths which need retrofocus design for SLR. And because of longer focal lengths for same field of view 35mm obviously suffered lot less from size complications of retrofocus design than 4/3.
(plus bigger sensor would suffer more from oblique angle of light if rear element of lens were as close)
I agree that flange distance is more important with a small sensor, but I believe that there are quite a few FF-lenses that could get more compact designs too. Some wide angels are obvious, but also fast lenes up to 50mm and maybe a bit more.
But the greatest benefit with a mirroless system when it comes to lens sizes is that digital corrections can be applied to the viewfinder which makes smaller, but optically less well corrected lenses possible. You could always argue that it’s not a real advantage overall, but it certainly is for size.
Full frame mirrorless isn’t anything special to master, it seems, since Leica has been doing it for several years now.
I have to say, I’m not overly impressed with anything from the GH3 so far. I’ll reserve judgement for full tests of production models, but Genesis and all of the clips I’ve seen posted really aren’t anything earth shattering. The high bitrate is great, but its All-i so it needs to have a higher bitrate than AVCHD to maintain detail. Its good, but not the leader everyone thought it would be.
I don’t think its a Sony sensor, the DR out of my EM5 looks better IMHO. Again, I’ll wait for full tests, but I think this is going to fall short of the OMD. Even if it is Sony’s sensor, the Olympus processing engine is – to me – clearly superior, at least from what I’ve seen. The best feature is the framerates and over/under cranking. If Panasonic went 10-bit 4:2:2 this would be a game changer, as it stands with 8-bit 4:2:0, meh.
If only Olympus would put more emphasis on video…
It’s possible that the G5 has already a Sony-Sensor. The IQ is acording to some tests much better than the IQ of the GX1.
For shure: Panasonic uses a new type of sensor – not only a tweaked one.
Would be better, if they developed it on their one. To many Sony Sensors in to many Cameras… I like alternatives. It’s important for the progress of technology.
G5 has exactly same total and effective pixel counts specifications as GH2.
Also Techradar’s DR measurement result looks lot like behaviour of GH1/GH2 sensors in DxOs, whose test method and measurement software they use. So maybe that’s the sensor what Panasonic was intending for GH3 but realized they need best available tech sensor for their flagship. (resulting GH3’s mystery sensor)
I think it’s Samsung which in the future will be competing with Sony in sensors.
Canon simply doesn’t have same resources and electronics/semiconductor knowledge.
Though I’m not sure if Japanese companies are so willing to buy sensor from Korean company.
Well, on this test G5 works much better than G3.
http://www.chip.de/bestenlisten/Bestenliste-DSLR-bis-1.000-Euro–index/index/id/968/
Samsung: It’s not easy with them- they want to become mirrorless marketleader but show no products which fits this aim.
At the samte time, they end their mirrorless production, there will be alos no engagement in Sensor-development.
And: they are still behind Sony…
Canon has own Sensors, but they dont’t sell them – as I know. They have to increase their quality to hold their marketshare.
Maybe you should go spoon with your E-M5 in bed for a while, sounds like quite the love affair. And have no fear, the body is splash-proof.
Trying to reach any conclusions from firmware 0.4 is a fool’s game. As is trying reach conclusions about color from the lighting in a convention center.
+++++++
That pretty much says it all!
I think English translation of original Japanese article is horrible. I see no monitions of Pana thinking FF camera development. They think m4/3 may be able to compete with FF in some situation. We have to blame translation engine!
I am on the fence about what system to get into. Open to FF 135, APS-C, M4/3. My use would be 95% video, 5% stills.
Huuuuuge difference favoring the Nikon D600, all of a sudden. D600 is now the world’s lowest cost digital camera with wholly uncompressed Full-HD video via HDMI whilst using 4:2:2 chroma subsampling, but of course it is still only st 8-bit color fidelity.
But Nikon does not have any video camcorders to sell, unlike Panny. Panasonic did not want to jeopardize all of their vid-cam sales, thus the dumbed-down low-end HDMI output out of the GH3.
Really, there is precious little reason to connect an external video recorder to the GH3 — what for? But with the D600, there is a good reason to. I believe the Sony SLT A99 also outputs 4:2:2 when it comes to chroma subsampling. So does the D800 and D800 E. So, that leaves only the Lumix DMC-GH3 outputting low-end 4:2:0 chroma in 8-bit color, ouch.
No global electronic shutter that we were secretly hoping from the GH3, either. Only the good ole’ rolling type. No peaking function either with the GH3, I believe. Wow, the $670 Sony SLT Alpha 57 even has that!
Coupled with the pretty pricey Panny/Oly M4/3 glass line-up, I guess going the M4/3 route is not that much of a “no-brainer,” after all.
I see a lot of aliasing and moire in this clip of gh3 http://vimeo.com/54698768