The Leica T Tye 701 name registration in Taiwan (found via Digicameinfo).
It may be that soon a third company will produce MFT bodies. It’s still very uncertain if Leica will really make a MFT camera but wo things are sure:
1) Leica will launch a new mirrorless interchangeable system soon
2) Leica signed an agreement with Panasonic for the delivery of new mirrorless interchangeable bodies for $1400 each.
It’s going to be interesting…and expensive 😉
96 Responses
> “It may be that soon a third company will produce MFT bodies.”
Third? Don’t you mean four or even fifth? (depending on if you count just Blackmagic Design, or Kodak as well)
Anyway, I hope Lecia is going to join! As they’d add heaps to the prestige of the system as a whole.
Kodak isn’t a M4/3 camera, they just stole the 4/3 name for marketing purposes.
Are you talking about the Polaroid-branded camera from Sakar?
The announced Kodak MFT camera is being made by JK Imaging. Kodak and JK Imaging are members of the Four Thirds Consortium.
Correct. Many people seem confused by this, but we have two companies that have announced (but not yet released) mirrorless ILCs under licensed brand names.
1. JK Imaging will release m4/3 cameras under the Kodak brand.
2. Sakar will release cameras with interchangeable lensor modules (with as yet unspecified sensor sizes) under the Polaroid brand. They also have announced m4/3 lenses under the Kodak brand, possibly meant to be used with a m4/3 mount adapter on their Polaroid cameras.
In other words, one company have licensed the Kodak brand for camera bodies, another one for lenses.
JK Imaging is a member of the Micro Four Thirds consortium, as is the “real” Kodak. Sakar is not a member, although they use the term “m4/3” in their marketing. As for Leica, they are already members and have been for several years, so a m4/3 camera from them is certainly a possibility.
i think it’s really a MFT body, did you see new patent with mft sensor size and Leica look&design posted in rumors43 recently?
In my experience…ANYTHING that Leica rebrands is an expensive joke. If you are a fashionista..this is very important…if you are a photographer..doesn’t mean much. 🙂
I will take my E-P5 for now..and maybe an M1….then it will be the glass that matters…because the sensor in the “L” brand …will be the same…
I agree, but you can’t ignore the design factor. Leica is like Apple’s ridiculously expensive brother. Apple charges a bit more than everybody else, but stays in the “acceptable” realm, whereas Leica blows the expensive factor out of the water. But their cameras are drop dead gorgeous. Truth be told, if I too were a dentist, I would own a Leica /s.
That said, the last few cameras from Panasonic show a HUGE improvement in terms of looks. Just compare the GF6 to the GM1. I think their partnership with Fuji and Leica is paying off, and we’ll hopefully see more of these design improvements in their products. The “photographer’s Leica” as you said.
victor…I agree…but remember …I said anything that Leica “rebrands”…I was not referring to “their” camera bodies and lenses….that is a different story, altogether.
true, the rebranded approach is a slap in the face. based on the Panasonic patent though, it will hopefully be a new camera.
although, I wouldn’t mind Panasonic releasing it under their own brand as well, for cheaper 🙂
Apple charges ‘a bit more’, more like a lot more.
A $650 laptop from samsung is equivalent to Apple’s $1450 laptops. That’s more than a bit…
Same with the cases.
Without getting into an apple vs samsung debate as I own products from both and don’t care for this is better than that, this is very different here.
Apple designs their own products and that is very different to leica slapping a badge on someone elses final product.
Leica doesn’t do anything but expect a profit from it’s name. Leica seems like the protentous school boy snob that presumes to be better and demands more in life.
Apple asks for more but has made and designed it’s product with a lot of hard work just as samsung has and they both can ask what they want foe the fruits of their labour just like Olympus asked a $1000 for the ep5, whether people pay or not is up to them.
Leica remind me of bankers, maximise profit of the backs of the hard working and minimise risk sitting in ivory towers.
My comment had nothing to do about Leica, at all.
I’m not sure where you saw ‘leica’ in my post?
The only subject i touched, was in reference to someone saying apple only cost a bit more. I told him, at least here, they cost a LOT more and not a bit more.
Samsung also designs their own computers, just like Apple. I’m not sure where you got the idea that they don’t.
Yes you are right, you didn’t.
Apologies if I wasn’t clear enough.
I touched on your point with the samsung and apple issue and that is all you mentioned but I continued to elaborate on Leica to relate back to the original context of Admins post about leica were it all started.
I didn’t mention anywhere that samsung doesn’t design there own harware, actually to the contrary I said the opposite towards the end of my message you responded to and here it is …..
“Apple asks for more but has made and designed it’s product with a lot of hard work just as samsung has and they both can ask what they want foe the fruits of their labour”.
I think you missed that part and we’ve misunderstood each other.
I have apple and samsung products and enjoy both actually and both these companies are pioneers in the industry.
I’m also quite aware of Leica’s latest business practices, but again, i did not touch the Leica subject, at all.
I think you misquoted me or something.
You seem to be making a big point about the fact that you didn’t mention Leica, however, the post was about Leica and you were replying to a post about Leica and Apple pricing!
Anyway, what Samsung laptop were you comparing to what Apple laptop?
Every Leica-rebranded Panasonic camera so came with differences which actually at least partially could be valued as benefits, like a better and more expensive software package (in some cases, Lightroom is included), a different finish or a differently adjusted JPEG engine, and an extended warranty. Whether those differences justify the higher price might be debatable, but the Leica price never was so high as to become ridiculous, in contrast to what is happening with Hasselblad and Sony lately.
Still though, that would likely mean more Leica M4/3 glass to come… and that would be good!
I absolutely agree bob. I can’t take Leica seriously these days.
Leica sits on the fence and watches safely while the panny and Oly infantry do the work and when it’s most safe and seemingly profitable they’ll jump in and capitalise with someone elses idea “they pay for” and some people will pay double or triple the price for a leica badge and some other added gimmick just for that feeling of prestige or that they belong to something exclusive that others don’t.
Yes their name may addd prestige to the m43 system but the informed photographer understands very well this half hearted company leica hasn’t made anything or really made any contribution to m43 like Panny or Oly yet may actually expect recognition.
Even Voigtlander has given us three m43 native mount f0.95 high quality manual focus lenses and soon Shneider will give us three lenses designed just for us m43 users and that I can respect.
What has Leica done other than rebadge Lumix cameras and permit Panasonic to use their name on their lenses?
In a fickle minded industry I won’t deny that the Leica name can serve as a very potent bait for potential customers but I’m committed to Olympus offerings and while I don’t own a Panasinic camera I really respect what they come out, especially the GX7, GM1 and the undisputed video king GH3.
Leica and hassleblad doing what they do best and still keeping their name.
For me legend is quickly becoming myth.
The frequencies listed mean that the camera has WiFi in 2.4GHz range. Leica itself has no resources to develop WiFi in its cameras. So the question is – is it Panasonic GX7 or GM1?
“It may be that soon a third company will produce MFT bodies”
It would be fourth (after Black Magic), but it will not produce them – just rebrand Pana as usual.
Don’t be ridiculous, there are dozens of highly integrated WiFi chips available on the open market. Anyone with a little digital electronics knowledge can build a device with WiFi.
But not anyone IN ADDITION can have enough software engineers to write the support in the firmware and apps for iOS and Android.
Unfortunately, Leica doesn’t have ANY digital electronic knowledge. Optics, camera design, industrial design, UI, materials, etc…are all in house Leica, but all their electronics (even the on/off switch) are contracted with outside engineering companies.
Everybody thinks it will be a m43 camera. What if it is a FF mirrorless based on the M240 sensor, but with all the live view, video, and AF tech of Panasonic added. Oh yes, and compatible with classic M lenses, but with its own range of AF lenses? That would kick ass, and certainly would better fit the $1400 price tag before Leica margin and before retail margin (expect $2800-$3200 at retail, body only).
That makes an incredible amount of sense!
For $1400 it would be killer!
Blackmagic isn’t producing any micro Four-Thirds bodies. They’re producing a couple of bodies with micro Four-Thirds mounts with sensors of a different size.
That makes them m4/3 bodies. A body that takes m4/3 lenses, and carries the m4/3 logo, is a m4/3 body, regardless of sensor size.
Pentax Q10 and Q7 have different sensor sizes but the same lens mount, making both part of the Q system. Nothing strange about that.
Micro Four Thirds is the name of the lens mount. The sensor size is called Four Thirds, both in 4/3 and m4/3 cameras.
The more the merrier!
Panasonic, Olympus, BMD, JKI (Kodak), Voigtlander, Schneider Kreuznach, SLR Magic, Tokina, Sigma, Samyang and now Leica.
MFT is absolutely thriving!
you forgot LOMO 😀
And Tamron…
…and Yasuhara
Admin wrote “MFT bodies”.
Leica have been members for several years. This isn’t about them becoming members, but about them possibly releasing m4/3 cameras.
If the price is going to be US$1400 per camera body, then I think we are not talking about a new lens mount. A new Leica lens mount camera would have been much more expensive from the start.
So my conclusion based on this is that Leica joins Micro Four Thirds, with bodies manufactured by Panasonic. This is great news.
That Leica-looking Panaonic patent was gorgeous. 1400$ for (let’s suppose) a redesigned GX7 bearing the Leica brand is maybe not THAT ridiculous… though still pretty expensive.
If Leica releases a GX7 with the styling from that patent and a $1400 price point it will be the best selling MFT camera of all time.
I guess in that case we will see more excellent Leica glass for MFT. The 25mm is what makes the system worth it for me, I can’t wait to get my hands on the 15mm and 42.5mm.
The release of the two new Leica lenses is what makes this a perfect storm. You’re now covered for wide, normal, and portrait lenses so you don’t have to use unworthy peasant’s glass from other brands. 😉 Though I’m sure even a Leica diehard would appreciate the physical and optical beauty of the Zuiko 12mm and 75mm.
A true Leica aficionado would be all over the Voigtländer Trinity… 17.5mm, 25mm & 42.5mm.
AF is for wimps. 😉
MFT does not lag behind the D90 in system compactness!
Leicians go for Leica lenses, its that simple.
True enough!
Leica really is more about the lenses.
I just hope the 15mm will be in the “affordable” range. The 25 for 550$ was a decent deal for the quality.
Wait. I thought the original news was that Leica is paying $1400 to panasonic for each camera. Add in a minimum 40% margin, and the retail prices will be at least $2000 and most likely more since Leica probably relies on much higher margins.
Why do people keep saying that Leica is joining the Micro Four Thirds consortium? They already are members, and have been so almost from the start. This is about them starting to make (or rebrand?) m4/3 cameras.
This is great news! This means that MFT has a long a bright future. From my point of view the real challenge for the years to come will be better ISO performance. There were huge leaps forward in that regard (think about the first MFT cameras and even the pro FT like the E-5 where beyond ISO 400 you had IQ problems) but the system still lags behind some APS-C DLSR like the D90 wich is 5 years old.
MFT does not lag behind the D90 in system compactness!
I know that. That’s why next spring I will get the E-M1 + 12-40mm f2.8 and the 60mm f2.8 macro (I love macro but I never had a 1:1 lens). It will replace my Nikon D90/D60 combo. Nikon D610 was another option but the bulkiness of the system (with ff lenses), the VR technology in their lenses (lags behing the Olympus IBIS) and the lack of VR in most of their premium primes and premium standard zooms (24-70mm f2.8) made me reconsider! The other big plus for me regarding the E-M1 is the EVF wich is superior to the OVF in the Canon 6D/Nikon D610.
So, you love macro but never had a 1:1 lens. In English we say “you would like to learn macro photography”.
Then you say that Nikon VR lags behind IBIS. In English we say “you are an absolute beginner who has not mastered light yet”.
You should stop worrying about gear and get into photography mate.
Visit my blog and judge the pictures if you think I’m an amateur: photobyandrei.wordpress.com
Also, when you shoot indoor in a museum like I do a lot, better stabilisation is required! No flash! remember?
PS I also have a diploma of professional photographer but I don’t earn my living from photography!
Nikon’s VRII is superior to the IBIS (by a lot).
I’m not sure where you got that IBIS was better…
I bet you it is going to be a rebranded panasonic.
The GM1 really has the Leica “look” about it. Many years ago, I used to shoot Leica screw mount (IIIf anyone?) cameras, and the GM1 is very reminiscent with the rounded ends design.
The $1400 per body bit is confusing me. Is it Leica is paying $1400 for each body from Panasonic or Leica is selling Panasonic manufactured bodies for $1400?
If Leica is paying Panasonic $1400 per body, the Panasonic has a great gig! I think it will be $1400 retail…
Colin…I agree the wording is not clear in the post…but admin can have slight language barriers at times….
I read it the way you did as well…or at least was/am a little confused about the $1400 reference.
At $1400 I can see Leica rebranding a GM….but if they rebranded the GX7 I think that the price would be higher if in-fact we are talking about a $1400 retail price here.
No way, if Leica are buying them from Panasonic its going to be for far less than they manufacture the GX7 for which is going to be what 35% tops what the retail price is for them. Going on the past Panasonic Leica tie ups it will be $1400 retail for the body.
I disagree…but I guess we will all eventually find out….one thing for sure…with the Sony A7 and A7r hitting the the streets…. Leica is not going to be bringing in much on their M240 bodies… a lot of potential new customers will go to the Sonies.
It’s simple.
If Leica is buying Panasonic bodies for $1400 (or having Panasonic building them a custom one), then except the Leica to cost $2000-$2400.
If it’s not like that, then it means the new camera will have a MSRP of $1400.
I am quite surprised at the hype over what many feel is simply a rebranded expensive panasonic and nothing new to the m43 system. What is wrong with people.. these same people complain at the cost of the em-1 and ep5 yet willing to pay more for less technology simply for a logo.
Are that many people that silly that it could actually have any meaningful impact for m43.. I don’t see how. Its not as if the other dlux leica cameras did anything to make smaller sensors credible and make a case that they are assume simply because leica licensed out there red dot to panasonic..
I never once complained about the price of the EM1, and place my order the day of introduction! I’m very interested in the potential Leica MFT camera not because I would purchase one, but simply due to the fact that it would further bolster the MFT concept and system.
I get the feeling that it will be something like a Leica GM1.
Test of 12-40 f2.8 by SLRGear:
http://slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=1641
I believe it will be a slight variant of the GM1, paired with the new Panny/Leica Summilux 15mm f1.7
Betiko I do not know what on earth Jon is responding to…but it cannot be your post????????…..
I like SLR Gear’s testing…I have found it to be very accurate over the years…and this review is impressive!!! It may delay the shipping of the lens as it will do nothing but increase the pre-orders!!!! LOL!
Thanks for posting it!!!!!!
if you compare it to the 12-35 at that same site the pana is sharper both at f2.8 and f4. with the exception being at 12mm f2.8 where the oly is more even. the oly also has MORE CA than the pana. I thought the fanboys where claiming this was gonna be vastly better…what happened?
Your left out the:
1. Distortion results
2. Weather Sealing
3. Focusing Speed
What happened?
IQ differences would be totally unnoticeable in any real-world print comparison.
Why don’t you Shoo Fly!
And the fact that the Oly is starting out about $300 less…
Ok
Both are weather sealed
Negligible distortion from both
And the 12-35 is the fastest focusing lens in m43s. When has oly beat pana in focusing speed?
Anything else? let me say it again: MORE THAN TWICE THE CHROMATIC ABERRATIONS. you think that wont be noticeable? Wast it you who said the oly was gonna be vastly better optically? Baaaaackpedal fantards!
Nice call Jon…..
homeboy also left out:
1.The Vignettng results
2.The FACT that the Olympus has more reach!
3.He also left out the fact that nobody here but him mentioned the Panasonic……but HIM! LOL!
WHAT HAPPENED??????????????????????????????????? 🙂
(When we are both in the South Pole shooting penguins and his Panny camera and lens freezes up…we can talk!)
Replied above
And this is a leica panasonic post, you are the only retards talking oly. And do you mean the distortion and vignetting pana corrects in camera? Remind me again what oly camera corrects ca. More than twice the ca than the 12-35 at that. Will that no show on prints either?
And how convinient, where the oly falls short wont show on a print but where the pana does it will? You fantards crack me up!
Sure…the south pole…lets pretend somebody believed that…
I just realized you commented without even checking. Vignette is less than half a stop and distortion is less than 1% at 35mm only. Like you yourself say, not visible in a print or photo. Nowntwice the ca? Very visible.
So WHAT HAPPENED INDEED?
Given that there are going to be two new Leica Summilux primes, the 15mm and the 42.5 and there already is the 25mm, I think it is rather obvious that Leica will introduce a m43 camera, they already had 43 cameras in the past. Plus, a classic Leica kit would usually consist of a three lenses, wide, “normal”, tele. Take the Minolta co-developed CL, which had a 28mm, 40mm (not quiet a 50) and a 90mm. Same goes for the M cameras, the classic M photographer would have three lenses in the kit. Also, Leica does not offer a range of APS-C lenses yet and it`s FF lenses would probably be way too expensive for the targeted audience, otherwise these people might just buy an M camera. So my bet is on a m43 camera, no doubt.
Yes, good reasoning. If you follow THE.ME you’ll see that Leica CEO made some inarticulate sounds about differentiating production, since they are also launching a new factory in Solms. We know also that m4/3 is the perfect ‘serious’ complement to FF 35mm, so it could be a more sophisticated strategy than a mere rebranding.
I hope they realise that in the wider world for 1400 $ they must offer some serious kind of kit, and their Panny Leica lenses seem just that. So there is hope that a matching body might be provided, with some Leica tweaking.
GX7,GM1 are the “perfect” bodies to get Leicanized….very predictable. Maybe this will convince me to try a Panasonic body, if for once i win my monthly lottery participation that is.
All what I know about Leica, is that I own a D-Lux 3 from 2006. I did more than 1.700.000 shoots and the camera is still running great, despite of many bump It had during that time. Thanks Leica and, of course, thanks Panasonic.
Could be just another silver edition of a compact camera. Or maybe T means titanium finish of a plastic bodied compact.?
Although I like the GX7 design, especially now that that the IBIS seems less shitty, if the same features plus extra sturdiness were embodied in the patented design, and branded Leica, 1400 $ with a red dot would be doable.
To me if 1 $=1.4 € , of course. That is 1000 € 🙂
How times change, especially if Leica decides to go m4/3 ILS, for its ‘junior’ line.
Sorry, I meant 1€= 1.4 $ of course
(and NSA Go Home 🙂
Am.
Did you just copy paste that comment from a earlier post (a few weeks back) and just change the $ values?…
More info…
http://lavidaleica.com/content/new-leica-t-type-701-camera
This is like the abdominable snowman of m43 rumors.
Cool as it would be, I’ll believe it when I see it.
I think the fact the two, upcoming Panaleica lenses both have aperture control rings says a lot. A Leica m43 body could be created with dedicated shutter and exposure comp. dials, consistent with the Leica layout. There would need to be a compelling reason to pay $400 more than a Fuji X-E2, though.
Yes! BTW because of the squarish format of 4/3 a 30mm eq. would be perfectly acceptable as a 35mm eq. in 24×36.
One has hopes for a digital eq. of the Leica CL,
I will give you a compelling reason not to buy the Fuji: lenses. Fuji has already announced that they will stop X lens development to focus on their new full frame system.
It would be cool to get a real digital rangefinder for 1400 euro even with a tiny m43 sensor. If they just make a 1400 euro M43 camera its DOA…..
I dont think it makes sense to use a complex and inefficent RF focus mechanism in a low budget Leica body. It’s becoming more redundant, unless you love the different way of RF (much like manual focus gives that different “superior” feeling to some)
How about all the small focal length Leica lenses being rebuilt by Leica with a focal reducer built into each one and a M43 mount?
That is paperwork from a taiwanese company that specializes in testing new electronic products from global manufacturers to authenticate their wireless functions are in compliance with international standards.
In this case the test was in the category’modular low power radio frequency’
Basically devices that gets to the stage of being sent to them for autentication will generally go to sale. So definitely expect a new Leica camera with some wireless feature m/43 or not.
What if these are 35mm bodies built by Panasonic in Japan for Leica and then Leica polishes them up to their taste?
I’m thinking a fully AF modern 35mm ILC camera. A mass production cost of $1400 a pop including sensor, chassis and all electronics and assembly does seem realistic but Panasonic charging Leica $1400 per m43 camera doesn’t sound right.
The wording seems subject to interpretation – Leica signed an agreement with Panasonic for the delivery of new mirrorless interchangeable bodies for $1400 each.
Theres no mention of $1400 being a retail price leica will adhere to for customer sale but rather an agreement that Panasonic delivers to leica ILC bodies at $1400 each.
Does $1400 per Gx7 sold to Leica seem reasonable when it’s retail market orice is only $1000? Unless it’s been seriously modified, enhanced and had a lot of bling added to it that incured a serious fee per body than not really.
Unless I see leica contribute something unique and not just cloned to m43 of it’s own accord I keep my view on them as an opportunist company cashing in of the hard work of others backs with a somewhat pretentious outlook on what people should be paying for that red dotted lumix.
I’d take the Lumix and buy an extra lens but each to their own and everyone freely votes with their purchase.
One could figure that Sony’s bell tolls for Leica too. IF they have succeeded to make a body that can take seamlessly (which I doubt) Leica RF lenses, for 1/3 or less of the price Leica’s monopoly in effect is broken.
So my take is that they need to differentiate production, and m4/3 could be a step in that direction.
Meanwhile the might devise and prepare a fully electronic FF35 with Panny as hidden partner, in case Sony Mirrorless FF goes out of hand, and begins encroaching on their production figures for mechanical mirrorless.
Just saying…
@amalric
I think both make sense. M43 for leica would likely be more profitable for them than whatever their doing now and FF 35mm
with electronics and interchangeable mount for Leica is overdue despite what the purists say, Leica isn’t gonna be around forever if they just adhere to selling $10000 manual focus primes for the niche market and $8000 bodies to the loyal rich. They have their ethics on what a camera is but that will bring the death of that dinosaur if they don’t expand, wait for it…to the mainstream and that’s where Panasonic comes in not only to help leica to transition over to the digital age but also for Panasonic to gain from a potential 35mm mount they could use when ALL manufacturers have gone that way.
In the ILC world Sony has gone 35mm, rumors are abound that Fuji will in 2015 and in years to come when it’s economically viable for Olympus they will too but m43 is in a great position to compliment that system if it ever comes to fruition.
To me m43 is the best balanced system on the market considering size, weight, quality, features etc…and even if 35mm becomes common and much cheaper m43 is in a vastly superior position than apsc is as a compliment to 35mm will ever be.
Admins statement about Panny selling bodies to Leica for $1400 each doesn’t alude to any format so ultimately we can only speculate for now.
If Panasonic is manufacturing a heavily modified and improved Gx7 with extra quality and bling than it makes sense that these will be m43 bodies otherwise it doesn’t and although $1400 for manufacturing a 35mm body seems cheap, please remember that is the manufacturing cost and not retail price.
FF bodies(with comparatively cheaper quality) are on the consumer market retailing for not much more than that figure and that’s inclusive of tax and profit margins.
Oh I agree absolutely, and that is what I meant too. However Leica is a tyrant, the way Bhutan is, so never discount the absurdities they might do if they feel that their brand doesn’t raise enough money.
We have the luminous example of Hasselblad after all with its Lunars and Stellars 🙂
Indeed. If you read my comments from the beginning of this thread you’ll definitely realise I have little to no respect for this company called leica and here’s a snippet from my earlier post -“Leica doesn’t do anything but expect a profit from it’s name. Leica seems like the pretentious school boy snob that presumes to be better and demands more in life.”
They ride the backs of others who’ve done the work for them, when it suits them and expect more profit from absurd prices just because that stupid red dot is on the camera. Hassleblad is another infamous one skinning their customers alive for a glorified nex camera.
@Admin is Leica paying Pana $1400 per body or is that the expected retail price? Leica paying $1400 per body to Pana would indicate an entirely new cam system with a final retail price closer to or exceeding $5000.
More info (will continuously update):
http://lavidaleica.com/content/new-leica-t-type-701-camera