Mirrorlessons published the content of an interview with Mark Baber from Panasonic UK.
1) 4K acceptance by customers: “The reaction has been incredible. Many object by saying they’ve been shooting video for years but they’ve never had this quality.”
2) 8k: “We have to be very careful as a manufacturer that we don’t confuse the customer by bringing in 8K in tomorrow. I think 8K will be the future a good few years from now but it will target a higher broadcast level.”
3) Video and Stills: “The culture of consumers is changing and we’re in the marketplace to help them understand that we have a system made up of high-performing stills camera. But because of our heritage and legacy of being predominantly focussed on video, we’re never going to get away from that. I actually think that gives us a platform to shout even more about and Sony have got the same kind of opportunity.”
4) About mirrorless “perception”: “There isn’t any snobbery when it comes to buying a mirrorless system anymore.”
5) About a possible PRO service program: “I think that with the changes in our technology and game-changing products like the GH4, there’s a huge overlap between consumer and broadcast. I can’t tell you unfortunately if professional support is happening or not but if we continue to produce these kinds of products, it makes sense that we would do something like that”
6) About the GH4 firmware update: “I don’t know what the limits are of the GH4 but I suspect our engineers are currently working on something that will enhance our cameras for existing users and new users. But at the same time, we don’t want to release firmware updates just for the sake of it. It may be that the GH4 is at its limit. I don’t think it is, but again that’s my own personal opinion. “
54 Responses
I can’t wait for some GH5 rumors…
it too far,interest before NAB what is something else ??
If they stick with the 1,5-2 year plan, GH5 should be announced in this autumn or winter. Some rumors may appear soon, probably after NAB.
Well he did say that there is no GH5 coming [soon] but who knows, these interviews rarely give real insights: “When you have a camera that’s really taken the market by storm like the GH4, and is now in its second year with no GH5 or 10 coming, we can’t just sit back and expect the customers to come and buy.”
They need to be seen as progressing. And as good as the GH4 is, there are a few things that are needed that it just can’t deliver with its existing hardware. Let’s face it the GH series are video first and stills second cameras (at least since the GH2)!
Specifically (in order of my preference) here is my wishlist for the GH5:
1. Improved ISO performance (in sensor). Tied to this would be a reduction in MP count to 12MP so that the entire sensor can be used to gather more light. Sony has shown that this is the correct way to implement serious UHD/4K video and, quite frankly, 12MP is still more than enough for the vast majority of users. And the photosites will be approximately the same size as the new Canon (~50MP) 5DS and 5DR cameras.
Only a VERY small fraction of users print larger than (300 dpi) 10×13 stills (double that size for magazine printing (150dpi)), so I can’t see how there could be any reasonable objections. And if the users are primarily interested in high-end stills or a hybrid video/stills camera, then there are other Panasonic and Olympus M43 offerings that could fill those needs.
2. Improved dynamic range (in sensor). Another couple stops (14-15) would really help with highlight and shadow detail and just general difficult situations where you can’t control the lighting.
3. Global shutter. This would help in two ways. Obviously, it would eliminate rolling shutter in video. However, due to that elimination of rolling shutter in video, it would also enable almost pristine 8MP 4K stills capture.
4. In body stabilization. I’d rather pay a bit extra for the body and then have all of my glass be stabilized. The Olympus OMD-EM5 MkII is a great example of what can be done with 4-5 stops of stabilization compared to ~2 stops in the best Panasonic glass. Of course, I don’t want to lose the “unlimited” time video recording that the GH series is SO famous for. I record events and not having to worry about recording time with large SD cards is WONDERFUL!
5. RAW HDMI output. Then it would be up to an external recorder to either faithfully record the RAW output or to use all of that data to produce true 444, or 422 10-bit ProRes for the best combination of color fidelity and file size.
As for the existing product, I’d like to see the following:
1. A true LOG recording option.
2. Improved focus peaking.
3. Improved false color.
Yeah, I know, dream on… sigh! 🙂
Agree with you on some points and dressage on others.
Making the sensor global shutter will dramatically decrease DR, so I prefer a faster read out and better DR instead.
I strongly dislike the idea of having IBIS, it does more harm than good for video work. For static subjects may be ok, but also OIS is good for that. Once you start moving, panning, sliding etc the camera the IBIS makes the video unacceptable, + it makes the sensor hotter. A video camera can easily be stabilized in other ways, with a good fluid monopod, Steadicam, etc (all those much better than IBIS).
The megapixels will go up and that’s not a problem, Panasonic should be resizing the full readout for better 4K detail (NX 1 dos it form 28 MP and the result is good).
We will not get RAW video in GHx, ALL-I for 4K at decent quality level is not feasible (there is no way to store 500-800 Mb/sec of data on a SD card) not any time near, although 4:2:2 and 10 bit internally may happen.
Anyway, I bet GH5 will be a very good hybrid still-video camera and I can’t wait the official announcement (when that will be) to place a preorder. 🙂
Until then I’m content with rumors.
I have to disagree with you regarding the link between global shutter and DR. If that were the case, then both RED and Blackmagic would not have the 13-15 stops of DR they routinely test out at both in test suites and in the real world.
As for IBIS, it doesn’t “make the sensor hotter”, but rather, with current technology, doesn’t allow for as efficient dispersion of heat. To see what REALLY GOOD IBIS can do, I suggest you take a look at videos from the new Olympus OMD-EM5 MkII. It’s stabilized video is far superior to anything I have seen, in camera or OIS lens, and rivals some of the best stabilizers (thought gimbals are still, generally, better, but at a MUCH higher cost). You can see a side-by-side sample of this in this video (EM5 MkII vs GH4):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBlfBelTLwU
Megapixel increase is in direct conflict with improved light sensitivity. With a given sensor technology, higher megapixels means smaller photosites, which means less light at each pixel, which means an increased noise.
For the VAST majority of users, there is little to no NEED for more megapixels. There are cameras for people who need high megapixels and those same people typically do not need the highest end video. The GH series has become a video first, stills second (very good with stills, but not as good as the GH series is good at video).
I used to be interested in higher MP, but the Sony A7s has, literally, “shown me the light” as to what can be done by LOWERING the MP count to only that needed. With a M43 sensor, decreasing the MP count from 16MP to 12MP (4K x 3K sensor resolution), would immediately result in a 25% increase in light sensitivity and corresponding decrease in noise at any given ISO setting. Not to mention a 1:1 pixel readout for video, thus avoiding (some of the) moire/aliasing issues.
I could even see having a 4.1K x 3.1K (or so) sensor and use the extra resolution for in-sensor digital video stabilization without losing any video resolution. Though that would probably REALLY tax the processor(s) and battery.
Arguably, the GX series is Panasonic’s best stills camera, with good video. I can easily see how increased MP might be appropriate for the GX series.
As for RAW, I specifically stated RAW (uncompressed) HDMI output, not in camera. I, personally, don’t want a RAW workflow, especially at 4K, but can see how some might find it useful. However, I can see the advantage to having the maximum amount of information outputted to the HDMI connection to an external recorder that records either CinemaDNG or 444 or 422 10-bit ProRes at various data rates.
As for ALL-I, I really don’t see the need. IPB provides essentially the same quality at 1/2 the data rate… unless I am trying to do stills capture. Even then, I really cannot see that much difference between ALL-I and IPB and I’d rather save the space for more recording time. I have NEVER had anyone complain about the quality of my IPB videos.
I REALLY hope that Panasonic concentrates on the first two of my wishlist above. IMO, the others would be nice, but not nearly as useful as the first two… improved ISO (low light sensitivity) and DR!
Please document yourself a little bit better. Red dos not provide any global shooter camera, all of them are rolling shooter ones with great DR. BMC 4K and the new AJA Cion are also grate cameras but the DR is low. Global shooter sensors not only diminishes DR but also “provides” more noise :).
The link you posted about the stabilization is fake, here is how really god the IBIS is (made by Imaging Resource): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkhTHS1p2R4
After many years of video production I tend to disable all kid of in camera or lens stabilization, they make a lot of problems when panning, moving the camera, using a slider, crane etc. There are much better ways to stabilize the video work.
Increasing the megapixels dos not increase noise, it has been discussed 1000 of times before, compare A7R to A7s until ISO 12800 at the same resolution and see who has the edge. 🙂
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-7-s/10
“444, or 422 10-bit ProRes for the best combination of color fidelity and file size.” You asked for pro res, the pro res is very similar to ALL-I comrpesion (they are both only spatial compression algorithms).
Panasonic will probably improve both the DR and low light capabilities in the GH5, and I have a feeling the next magic mega pixel number for m4/3 will be 18. 🙂
Best regards. 🙂
Too early for GH5 rumors, but it sounds like there will be a Panasonic prosumer cine camera revealed at NAB 2015. ( think Canon C100 competitor )
Someone really needs 8k? Really?
Professionals. For panning and zooming (video analog of still’s cropping). And image stabilization.
It is not hard to see that many see even the 4K video as an analog to RAW for stills.
In other words: it is not about the resolution, it is about the headroom for PP the format provides.
And for pulling stills. Not many cameras shoot 24fps 🙂
A very good point!
I agree with you on the final output front. 1080 and even 720 is sufficient for most consumers.
4K (or more) acquisition is also very good for a perfect FHD delivery.
Not especially. If you’re shooting at 24 fps you’re typically going to want as close to 1/30 shutter speed as you can get, otherwise you don’t get the intraframe blur we associate with film and you’re going to need more light. If you crank the video much above 1/60 shutter speed, it starts to look very harsh and non film-like.
The ability to skim stills out of video is far trickier than it at first seems.
In cinema production the recommended shutter speed is 1/48 sec. I don’t know from where you got the 1/30 sec shutter LOL.
If you are not after that exact motion blur thing, you can shot at any shooter speed you desire, the video will still look good, not everybody wants the same thing as “hellywood”.
+ shooting at exact 1/48 sec shutter is a pain in the … because you need very good ND filters which are never perfect and difficult to use, especially in run and gun situations.
Skimming a still out of a GH4’s movie is child’s play. The function is not only built right into the camera but provided within Panny’s PFS software (which can do some stuff the big guns cannot).
A lot of these movies are for web and broadcast where we do not want that fuzzy cinematic look.
It can go to 120fps if you want, slo-mo mode with vfr.
NO, all we need is a crappy under 720p resolution (a la Canon & co.).
Only people who can’t frame a shot properly or can’t think how to edit shots together. Oh and biznizmen trying to sell gimmicks. Seriously though if 2.5k RAW was good enough for Skyfall, it is good enough. So why can’t we have that? Nobady has ever managed to give me an answer to that question yet.
RIght now, I don’t want to imagine what kind of kerosene breathing computer you need to handly 8k raw…
The Mac Pro trashcan can handle 8k pretty well with Premiere Pro. Interestingly enough, 8K is also the price of a well equipped one.
Who no interesting questions for him to not snswer?
4K is already over , no need to keep taking or praising about it .
What need to be asked is what are the next big things from Panasonic .
What about Still Imaging breakthrough in DR & ISO ???
Lens roadmap ???
Over for you maybe, for the rest it’s just starting. 🙂
It will be over once Nikon and Canon have full 4K support across their camera line, but right now we have squat from either of these companies.
We probably will, actually, i’m not sure. well, who knows, just my opinion, yes, maybe in the future…. hahaha… another excellent interview!! I think these guys should be politicians…
The art of speaking and not saying.
Item 4: Mirrorless snobbery? Seriously?
The snobbery is AIMED at mirrorless cameras, sensors and users from entrenched, calcified and insecure DSLR users, NOT the other way around.
Want proof?
Read the moronic mirrorless put-down comments here and elsewhere.
Remember that a big chunk of mirrorless users moved from the world of oversized DSLRs to small and compact mirrorless cameras.
Snobbery seems to be in vogue these days. I would say that the DSLR makers are calcified from their long and unchallenged reign.
Jeff, I think the interviewee meant snobbery in exactly the sense you describe. Historically, pros in particular have derided mirrorless cameras as toys (and specially M43). But what they’re seeing now is making their jaws drop. GH4 was a breakout camera in the same way the EM5 before it.
Today most of the snobs against mirrorless aren’t the pros. You can tell by their shaky arguments: “I just like a bigger sensor better”. Really? I thought the point was to take good quality pictures? I think M43 has proven time and again just how capable it is. And I wouldn’t trade my amazing compact M43 lens system for the intangible benefit of a Canon/Sony sensor that is just 10-20% taller anyways…
Plenty of mirrorless fans like bigger sensors, and plenty of mirrorless fans like smaller sensors than 4/3.
“Today most of the snobs against mirrorless aren’t the pros. You can tell
by their shaky arguments: “I just like a bigger sensor better””
There are plenty of mirrorless models that are larger than 4/3, but of course size doesn’t matter, so 4/3 is just as good.
There are mirrorless models smaller than 4/3, from Nikon, Canon, Pentax, but of course size does matter so of course 4/3 is better.
Canon has a mirrorless camera with a smaller-than-m43 sensor?
He is Viezuvure, the Canon payed troll who infests forums and rumors sites with nonsense. He just change name and apparent strategy (but the core remains unchanged).
Don’t minde him, people interested in m4/3 know very well whay they chose this format instead of something else. 🙂
(I’ve altered your statement a bit)
” There are systems larger than 4/3, but 4/3 is just as good. There are systems smaller than 4/3, but 4/3 is better. ”
if you look at it on a linguistic / logical level – one statement seems to exclude the other.
yet, I think to a degree – it DOES make sense.
I don’t think of this as a black-and-white, better-or-worse, yes-or-no logic. My impression/opinion is that size matters, but only to a degree.
a point&shoot/bridge sensor is definitely too small – low image quality, with noise, artefacts, not a clean rendering of detail at low iso, very dissatisfying in low light. I was always unhappy with what I got out of my compact cameras.
The step up in quality with MFT is huge on all levels. The gains in quality with APS are negligeable – with FF it’s there but it’s not as big a step up as from point&shoot. And I can’t honestly say I “need” more than what MFT delivers.
I don’t know about nikon’s 1 system, but I certainly don’t think of it as “inferior” to MFT, I’m sure it’s way better than p&s. but hey, I’ve chosen mft, it delivers the goods, no need for spending money on something marginally better or worse.
So there’s the whole point: MFT seems like a really good compromise between size and quality – it seems to me to be the smart choice.
I remember, in 2007 I think, when I bought my G1, how the forums discussion were different. There were 3 lenses available from Panasonic and they had announced the macro at $900. Olympus, I think, only had their kit zoom and a kit-zoom quality f2.8 pancake.
Back then, in forums and by comparison to today, we had to be on the defensive, to concede that focus speed, image quality and everything was starting from an ever losing position, that small size was the ultimate raison d’être, etc…
Nope, the snobbery is by some mirrorless fans, declaring that they will rule the world! For over 8 years we’ve had to put up with them desperately telling everyone how they will bury the DSLR, how they will inherit the earth, and even articles in this forum declaring the decline of DSLR sales as “good news.”
Meanwhile, in DSLR land, no one much cares about mirrorless. Live and let live, lots of people own both. Some of these mirrorless fans love to pretend that DSLR fans hate them, and revel in perceived victimhood.
As though it weren’t true that the more choice the better in any segment of expensive consumer toys. As though buying first world luxury toys is a religion, and we have to choose a brand name or a method of viewing to find our own self-worth.
Happy to say, those days of snobbery are over, as more and more mirrorless fans are adapting the live and let live attitude.
Oh how I disagree. Are you a newbie? Usually who trolls who??? How many times we fought reflex users aka trolls that use to come here to depreciate our system??
I think there’s a fair amount of trolling on every imaginable side 😉
“For over 8 years we’ve had to put up with them desperately telling everyone how they will bury the DSLR…”
Really? LOL….
I couldn’t care less about whose snobbery is aimed at whom, the internet is full of it in any imaginable direction. But sometimes I make pointing out BS a hobby of mine:
Rather unlikely. The very first camera of the kind, the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1, was shown 6½ years ago in Cologne at the 2008 Photokina trade fair.
Go back a couple months and read the comments section before this site was moderated.
Canikon acolytes trolled this site obsessively. They constantly changed names, so their numbers were much smaller than they wanted you to believe, but they were a plague here until we started moderating.
On the occasions that I browse the canikon sites, I just haven’t seen the same level of trolling from the mirrorless fans, particularly M43 users.
I thinkhere is a Canon payed troll, I observed his comments on all rumor sits for quite a wile, he constantly changed names but his stile remained the same. He always got attacked wen someone commented bad about Canon, this gave him away. 🙂
By the way, he used you nickname quite a lot in the past.
‘SD’ copied my name and many others.
I find it hard to believe Canon paid him. He was such a nasty little guy there was no way he was going to convince anyone to move back to DSLR’s exclusively.
He tried to sneak back in here a few days ago, but he’s finding that difficult these days.
Here they come! Why are you here? No, really, why are you here and even commenting. You are exactly the kind of person jeffharris is describing. Unless you have an interest in getting a mirrorless camera, or have a mirrorless camera, then when you comment here you are simply a troll.
Nah, he owns a GX7. I didn’t agree with this particular post, but healthy skepticism isn’t the same as trolling.
What does GX7 ownership (or GH2 & GX1) have to do with it? I simply think that M4/3, Sony and Fuji mirrorless systems are great.
I never bought a DSLR because of size and weight, but I DO use adapted SLR and rangefinder lenses (Nikon, Voigtländer, Pentax SMC Takumar & Olympus OM) with all my M4/3 cameras.
I definitely see myself getting a Sony A7 II, or something similar, and adapt all the above lenses to use with it.
David accused FC of trolling because he doesn’t have a mirrorless camera. I was pointing out that in previous posts FC has stated that he owns said mirrorless camera.
I think that is what he meant – aimed AT, not from, mirrorless. That said, and while I am a big m43 fan who bought in at the GH1, I think the A7 is doing more to improve mirrorless IQ perception than m43.
If m43 gets a bit of a halo effect, then all the better, m43 should be about compact size versus absolute IQ anyway.
Why the interviewer didn’t ask key questions like the lens roadmap. What’s the thought re. long end.
As a GH4 owner, the quote about firmware is why I appreciate Samsung. Samsung is putting pressure on the competition to add capability where possible.
While I understand that manufacturers would want to hold features until the next version, as a consumer I greatly appreciate increased capability through free firmware updates!
SIDE NOTE:
Please include to ability to check focus WHILE recording (punch in) within the next GH4 firmware upgrade. Every professional camera has the ability to do so. The GH4 desperately needs it.
He should try hanging around the comments section of a camera article for a while. Not the same degree of snobbery you get from the FF vs smaller sensor idiocy, but hardly a thing of the past.
As for 8K: If you’re buying the camera as a professional filmmaker, maybe. For absolutely anyone else, it’s the megapixel war all over again but even stupider, so I desperately hope we don’t go there. Even 4K is of marginal value for most consumer playback equipment.
Case in point: My couch is not an unreasonable distance from my TV–under 10′. And to get any benefit at all out of 4K resolution I had to buy a 70 inch TV–which is, frankly, preposterously large, and from an angular view field perspective already in the range of recommended theater specifications.
Even at the THX recommended size, which is a mere 8 feet from an 80 inch TV, you still won’t get anything out of better-than-4K resolution. Essentially unless you’re cropping (which no consumer does outside a cell phone’s digital zoom) projecting on IMAX, sitting in the front row of a theater, or have a projection screen that you sit uncomfortably close to, 8K just is not going to matter.