Fake GX1 designed by our friends from Blog.livedoor
As you know a new Panasonic GX1 camera will be announced on November 8 in Japan. It has not a built-in viewfinder a la [shoplink 25396]NEX-7[/shoplink] and not a brand new sensor (same sensor as the [shoplink 22077 ebay]Panasonic G3[/shoplink]. Two of my top sources had the chance to play with the new Panasonic GX1 camera. After reading your comments on 43rumors they contacted me to say that the camera is actually much better than “your readers do think”.
First: the Panasonic GX1 has a very sexy looking and very high quality body. It’s a camera that feels extremely robust and well in your hands. The quality of the buttons for example is higher than the buttons from the [shoplink 16254 ebay]Panasonic GH2[/shoplink].
Second: Semi-pros that loved the [shoplink 14828]Panasonic GF1[/shoplink] will like the new GX1. It is not a revolution but more a very well thought evolution of the GF1.
Third: The image quality beats every Panasonic camera to date. It has the same G3 sensor but also a new much improved processing engine. One of my soruces said that i his opinion this is the camera with the best image quality to date.
In summary, some of us may be disappointed to know that this is not a [shoplink 25396]NEX-7[/shoplink] competitor with built.in viewfinder. But the sources are pretty sure that you will like the new camera anyway because it’s a real advanced and mature photographic tool.
I should soon get more details about the GX1. Feel free to help em to find rumors on the www. If you get some interesting news drop me a message at 43rumors@gmail.com or use the anonymous contact form on the right sidebar. Thanks! And don’t forget to follow us on Twitter and Facebook!
P.S.: I asked one of the sources why Panasonic didn’t make a camera with a built-in viewfinder like the [shoplink 26385 ebay]Panasonic LC1 (Click here to see that cam on ebay)[/shoplink]. His opinion is that Panasonic didn’t want to compete against his own [shoplink 22077]Panasonic G3[/shoplink]. If that opinion corrisponds to truth than Panasonic is making a huge mistake (that’s now my personal opinion!).
Reminder -> Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
FT3=41-60% chance the rumor is correct
FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
261 Responses
“is actually much better than “your readers do think”….with the same sensor and with no built in evf…wow…there’s gotta be some magic going on here…LOL…panasonic is just about marketing and video now…photography is just an afterthought…
Agreed. These sources likely work for Panasonic and have an interest to stir up a hype.
“Same sensor, but better image quality than…” We hear this too often (see current Olys). Later, it is just the same old stuff in a new box.
I agree with CRB, too. I guess that means also that there is no GF7 in the works. (and we know that Olympus is dead in the water)…..Very disappointing. Panasonic can just get some cute movie star to do the commercials and it will sell.
Now, I will have to make a therapy appointment today so that I can start to discuss these abandonment issues. 🙂
I have been contemplating selling my GF1 (and lenses – 20mm, 14mm and 45mm) to get the Nex-7 but this might convince me to stay. I do want a view-finer though!
R
A ‘view-finer’? Hmm.. then buy pink glasses with the camera 😎
Well spotted Martin. I can’t decide on the Nex 7 or this? What do you think?
If you do not mind added bulk of the NEX. But then, if you do not mind the bulk, you can also buy a DSLR: entry level cameras are cheap this days, feature packed and compact too (1100D, D3100/D5100, A33/A55).
If you have money, buy NEX-7 and keep the GF1 too. That’s the only way, unfortunately (requires the “have money”), you can make an intelligent decision for yourself. Because to me personally handling is about 1/3 of the camera’s value. And you never know how camera handles until you spent few days with it in your own hands.
Well if you can’t decide, then you must buy both 😉
More seriously, Nex-7 will very probably be the better camera of the 2, but also for significantly more money. And then there is the much discussed lens problem…
I myself envy Sony users that camera, but I am a more lens-oriented man, and quality zoom ‘lover’ at that. In this regard, I don’t think that Sony would ever match the m43 system.
The Pansonic might even be available to purchase before the NEX-7. That is not saying Panasonic is fast but Sony has some real problems due to the Flood. Sony’s problems with the flood go beyond just their camera division, they may have a difficult road ahead. Reports on the flood look worst every day it seems. I feel bad for all those in the area.
My advice is get both in your hand and see what you like. Both should be able to take great images going buy their past products.
Rupert, get the Panasonic G3, it has an EVF.
If no global shutter like nikon j1 and no tiltable screen like epl3, then it’s not worth to buy this gx1.
+1 Neicila! I agree.
The GX1 has a better sensor, thus better IQ, than the Nikon 1 and the E-PL3.
I think that the J1 has electronic shutter, but not global shutter, it’s two completely different things.
What about that new GPRO coming in spring next year? What about the new lenses???
There is no GF Pro. That was a term used by admin to designate the GF7, which is now the GX-1.
I really don’t understand it either…
I don’t give a damn an improved processing engine (I’ve got a fast machine at home to chew RAW) so how can it be much better for me if the sensor is the same? Even lighter AA filter? Faster readout speed? Faster frame rates? In camera RAW-HDR?
+100
Faster readout, higher frame rates, lower shutter lag, faster AF, … would be fine.
Lower read noise would be a win.
Useful low ISO would be great.
Hope this tweaking is possible in engine.
It’s better because the G3 already takes fine photos, but the body and controls suck. With the GF1 it’s the other way around. The GX1 should be best of both worlds and up-to-date. After that it’s all about the lenses, and Taking photos!
Sorry, but the GF1 in good light renders beautiful images.
+1 Personally…I think the GF1 RAW files are better than the G3 RAW files. Compare them on DPreview…download to your computer the full-size Raw test images at say 800 ISO..(you can’t see the difference with the tiny crops that come up online in your browser..you have to download the RAW files). The GF1 files look cleaner…no smearing.
Panasonic needs to make an ALL NEW sensor.
Sounds like you’re talking about JPG with DNR, which the GF1 has less of. With RAW that is irrelevant, and JPG has the new GX1 processing. Also with 16MP you’re looking at any noise up close. Basically the G3 would’ve needed to be much better to not get worse at 100% compared to the lower resolution GF1.
MJr, I am not talking about jpegs with DNR…..instead of speculating….take the time to download and look at the files. The RAW files. (jpegs from a camera that produces a RAW files are incidental and mean nothing)… YOU MAY BE AS SURPRISED AS I AM!
How do you compare:
At 16MP or at 12MP?
Both images scaled to full screen?
At 100%?
Did you PP to (roughly) same noise level?
Ha…
you are over thinking this. RAW no postproduction. one file is obviuosly tighter than the other.
Download them from DPReview…open them side by side in app light light room a 100 percent…look at them and just look at them. Don’t talk about it …Do. Then get back to me…after you have done that.
So you compare apples with pies. 100% of 12MP is a different image than 100% of 16MP. And you can’t compare different images, you can just like or dislike.
Btw, since you don’t give details and I don’t own lightroom.
Using the dpreview website I see areas where 12MP vs. 16MP sensor doesn’t matter. But there are areas wher G3 (and GH2) are definitely superior: Look at the spools, no details left in GF1/EP3 images.
True, but still, it’s quite out of date.
Plus then it was a consumer camera, now the GX1 should be a more enthusiast camera, top class, so probably good built, controls and features to match.
The focusing speeds with some of the newer lenses is quite a bit slower with the GF1….I will give you that!
does the processor even matter if you only shoot raw, which is what i do. i am unsure what the processor is used for in raw files, will the improved on make a difference?
Do you think that IQ is only because of the sensor and it has nothing to do with the engine? It’s the same as saying to ignore the lens quality as well, it’s a system.
who cares about processing engine? im shooting everything in raw anyway and im not even a ‘serious photographer’ which this thing clearly does not seem to be targeted at if they think that’s a winning formular.
Be serious, thom. Professional photographs usually shoot in RAW rather for getting the best JPG possible than for the larger freedom of parameters’ adjustments.
Believe me, a wedding photographer doesn’t have time for playing on every photo one-by-one just for getting the best result. For them, a really good JPG engine is more than welcomed. At last this is the one a Panasonic camera can offer right now!
I doubt this GX1 is targeted at wedding photographers, in fact I doubt it was designed as a working tool for professional photographers.
That said, I see no reason why a working photographer would have to make do with out of camera JPG, when instead he can use most PP software to batch process images.
+1
I used to think that way but I’ve realised that if you can get everything right in camera; exposure + white balance and you have a good JPG processing engine, then RAW is pretty much redundant not to mention a huge PITA to edit and process each picture one by one.
I use mostly jpg now.
You don’t need to process images one by one. Using lightroom or an other professional software you can set WB, exposure and other parameters for one image and batch process the entire set.
The whole point of RAW editing software is that you DONT have to edit one by one and that it’s non-destructive, there’s not even ‘open’ or ‘save’ anymore.
Exactly.
there’s no whiter than white in jpeg – raw allows you to easily recover blown highlights which i am doing quite often with the images the gf1 produces..
on a related note the dynamic range of the g3 sensor is even lower than that of the gf1 so i think i might have to pass even though i was so looking forward to an upgrade..
> im shooting everything in raw anyway and im not even a ‘serious photographer’
That’s why you are not serious photographer. Just like me. 🙂
I shoot in RAW because that gives me an opportunity to fix my shooting errors in PP. WB in mixed lighting? PP. Metering with contrasty subject? PP. Unevenly lit subject? PP. Messed up composition? PP. So on and so forth.
From what I have seen, pros and “serious photographers” do in fact often shoot in JPEG. Because they make much less errors => because they have more experience => because they are duh serious about photography and know this shit throughout.
I shot my sister’s wedding last year using RAW+JPG. I hired a 5D MkII for the job and the original intention was to use the JPGs purely for selection and letting my family view the photos… that was until I couldn’t get decent batch edits from Lightroom! Glad that I also captured RAW for B&W conversions though and the odd correction.
Actually shoot entirely RAW with my E-30 though, the desktop software matching the OOC JPGs is a huge plus point in my opinion. Mostly just have to correct WB but barring speed, I haven’t noticed a downside.
If the GX1 isnt going to get an EVF, then please make the G4 with the EVF relocated to the corner (ala NEX7 and X100), and please add a proper grip rather than the “fingertip-ridge” as on the G3.
G3 is a fine camera at a competitive price, but to me the design is a bad combo of not small enough (due to hump) and too small (due to lack of grip).
Most people will never even get close to reaching the limit of what current m4/3 cameras are capable of. Those same people are the ones you will find complaining on forums and blog comments.
There is so much more to a camera than specs. I’ve owned my GF1 for over 2 years and formed a bond with it over that time. Does it have the best sensor? No. Does it have a good viewfinder? No. Does it have a swivel screen, good high ISO capability, and panorama/hdr effects built in? No, no, and no. I don’t need any of that. I didn’t buy the camera to have a gadget- I bought it to take pictures, and it has done a damn good job without ever getting in the way of me and my subjects.
Now that I’ve passed 41,000 shots, it’s about time to retire the GF1- and this GX1 looks like it will fit the bill.
With new products, customers reasonably expect for there to be more than marginal improvements. A built-in viewfinder in a compact body is something mirrorless enthusiasts have been clamoring for since day one. The NEX-7 is a second-gen camera that addresses an issue that Oly/Pany have ignored for three product cycles. If not for the superior lenses of m4/3, I’d already have switched.
Isn’t the NEX 7 bigger than the G3?
No, it’s noticeably smaller and thinner. I compared my GH2 to a NEX-7 side-by-side and the difference is pretty dramatic.
Btw, is the NEX-7 on permanent display at B&H for people to play with? Might have to stop by, if so.
No, I was there picking up a filter and was looking at the NEX-5N and a Sony Rep was standing there with a NEX-7. he let me play with it for a while. I had my GH2 and was comparing.
The NEX-7 is impressive.
no, only the lenses
+1
The outrage for a lack of a view finder is ridiculous. It’s not that serious.
Actually G3 is small enough and similar to the size of GF1… (only the EVF is bulky…) , if Pana made a G4 with a smaller EVF…. Then the buyer will get what they want….…
Actually I like the external EVF for GX-1 , I didn’t mind to plug the EVF only when I need, i think it is much more flexible then a Build-in EVF.
+1. Totally agree. Unless its really small, and feather-weight, I prefer it an external device. That’s what stopping me from getting G3.
+1
I agree here. I’m more disappointed that the external EVF is a 900k that might have the same internals as the VF3, which is a bit worse than the 1.4M built-n G EVFs, VF2, V1 and of course new Sony ones. Still, if the refresh rate and low light is good, then I can live with it.
Well, so long as they also upgrade the build quality. The G3’s controls feel about as cheap as I’ve ever used on a camera in this price range.
A new EVF is also long overdue. Steve Huff recently said the current m4/3’s EVF’s are like VHS vs HD when compared to that new Sony OLED EVF. Ouch.
Absolutely. I did an A/B tests with my Gh2 and NEX-7 yesterday. The NEX-7 EXF is gorgeous, smooth with rich color. I’d certainly pay extra for it.
Panasonic’s “new”EVF is 2-year old technology… At the very least!
I have the Panny EVF, and the only problem I have with it is the placement of the LVF/LCD button. I would have preferred it towards the back instead of the focus dial.
It’s a dangerous game for Panasonic.
All what your sources say is also true about the E-P3. And the PEN has the additional advantage of built in image stabilization which also works for all of the autofocus prime lenses out there (including the Panasonic models) as well as the manual focus lenses (Voigtländer, Nokton etc.) and the legacy lenses on adapters.
I got myself the Olympus VF-2 along with the E-PL1 a long time ago and I used the camera almost exclusively with manual focus legacy lenses. I also have the GF1 with the lousy LFV1 as the MFT lenses got more attractive and I needed a faster auto-focus.
If there is really no NEX7 competitor in sight for a while, I might upgrade to an E-P3 sometime next year. Panasonic’s new viewfinder will probably cost at least 200€. The E-P3’s street price will have dropped considerably until then. Also, Panasonic will probably not be able to increase the auto-focus speed beyond the PEN. What benefit does a GX1 then have in comparison to the E-P3?
The only reason I might consider a GX1 over the E-P3 would be a multi-aspect-ratio sensor like in the GH2. Being able to switch between aspect ratios without losing image resolution through cropping is pretty awesome. I am afraid that’s the one feature that could actually differentiate a GX1 from the E-P3.
Up to now, I am not impressed. Both Panasonic and Olympus can be glad I am put off a lot by Sony’s design and the fact that their lenses suck, both in size and poor lens lineup. MFT is the better format. It’s a pity neither Olympus nor Panasonic dare to address the needs of users like me.
+1
Totally agree on the variable aspect sensor. In lieu of a built in EVF, it would have saved the day as no other cameras have it other than the GH. Without it, I don’t see the point stepping up from my GF- the improvements just aren’t worth it.
> If there is really no NEX7 competitor in sight for a while, I might upgrade to an E-P3 sometime next year.
“Some time next year” is also the approx time when GH3 is going to be announced/released. Not all hope is lost in the Pannyland.
What benefit the GX1 can have over the EP-3? Everything you can imagine, because nobody has the exact specs of the GX1 yet nor does anybody knows, how it looks.
An easy catch would be better ergonomics and a better design than the EP-3. Better controls like a GH2.
If the AF speed is like the GH2, then there is no problem. The EP-3 isn’t really that faster. But why should a GX1 not beat the EP-3 in that discipline?
A GX1 can be smaller, bigger, nicer – whatever – and the preferable camera. Who knows.
For Panasonic it is important, that the camera is clearly distinguishable from the GF3 and the G3. That’s it.
A processing engine affects raw files upon capture, ups the processing speed and helps with noise. It’s not just for jpegs. Although I do wish there was a evf built in I’ll take better image quality and speed of operation any day over a viewfinder that I can purchase separately.
Still no swiveling LCD, as I understand – not even a tilting one. This is the really big mistake, not the lack of viewfinder.
Exactly! I don’t miss a view finder. I need a side-hinging lcd with touch-to-focus capability. Sadly, the Sony 5n falls slightly short here too.
Why? For head tops and up-skirts? 🙂
E-P3s OLED is very useful even looking at it from an odd angle and moving lcd only is one more thing to break and add bulk.
I’d much rather have excellent OLED than relatively bad LCD which I need to adjust constantly.
E-P3 is the truest m43 camera, and if it had a multi aspect sensor, it wouldcve been the alpha and omega of m43 still cameras, but it’s still overall the best one even without one.
Panasonic just doesn’t get the m43 principle and once they did when they made GF1 and 20mm, since then their m43 have been completely off.
Hmm, Panasonic designed m4/3. Looks like the mismatch is on the other side. M4/3 isn’t (only) about the nouveau ranger finder.
“I’d much rather have excellent OLED than relatively bad LCD which I need to adjust constantly.”
So what you are saying is that OLED technology and articulation are mutually exclusive and that you can have one or the other but not both?
+1
Completely agree. Swivel LCD is more useful to me than EVF. But, if I could choose, I’d take both.
So buy the G3.
No IBIS = no buy. At least not until Panasonic makes some fast stabilized lenses, 12-35mm F2 OIS for example.
That was my reply from a mobile browser that didn’t offer Name and Email fields.
No, thanks, faux-DSLR design is stupid.
First rangefinder-style with swivel screen gets my $$$.
I totally agree on this one – would much rather have a swivelling lcd than built in evf. those who need that should really have a look at the g3 – its tiny
+1
I agree; I have to have at least a tilting LCD. A built-in EVF is also useful, but I don’t really mind having an external one that I can add to the kit as necessary.
People wants this and that without mind. Having swiveling LCD defintely make the body thicker and EVF will add extra height to the body. Not to mention the weight. You want everything and you want a small body. No sense at all. If you need that, go get a G3 or GH2. What’s the point of making every single camera having all the stuff with a different name? That’s not GX1. It’s a G4 or GH3.
The people clamouring for a movable LCD seem to be users who have a current P&S style M4/3 body, find the omission limiting and want more flexibility and options where shooting angles are concerned.
When I use the LCD on my GH2 when shooting, I’d bet that 90% of the time I shoot using it at waist level. It’s a MUCH more comfortable position than holding the camera up in front of my face. The EVF is for that stance.
For guys wanting a viewfinder and articulated screen, what about the G3?
G3 is too old – it is almost half year old. GH2 is year old. And the memory span of a usual netizen is limited to approximately one week. Or more precisely: if there were no news about a product for more than a week, then the product is too old.
[/sarcasm]
I’m no m43 person and even I am appalled about the type of blinded discussions taking place here.
So much agitation – all essentially about position of VF in the G3 or GH2.
Yet, when G3 or GH2 discussion were taking place, one rarely heard a complain about position of VF.
“So much agitation – all essentially about position of VF in the G3 or GH2.”
Mind boggling, isn’t it?
haha! Its a new craze 😀
I’ve been complaining about centered fake SLR EVF position of m4/3 bodies since first body. (same for Samsung)
And will keep doing that along with complaining about GH2’s bad ergonomy and lack of real high end level direct controls.
…and still not everyone converted to right handed and using the right eye only.
Fixed LCD and lack of a built-in viewfinder? I won’t buy a camera that doesn’t have both, or a movable LCD at the very least. So, I’ll wait for the GH3!
I got a chance to handle a NEX-7 yesterday at B&H and it’s really very nice, especially the 2.4MP OLED EVF! It has dramatically better image quality over the GH2 EVF. Build quality is very good.
The TiltyScreen LCD is very nice and more contained than a fully articulated one (kind of a toss-up there). The Sony rep, who’s camera it was, scoffed when I asked if it had a touch screen. He also mentioned that the halt in NEX-7 production in Thailand will only be a few weeks, not months.
If Panasonic is NOT going to release a true rangefinder body, the GX1 being a P&S, they’re missing a huge opportunity.
Missed a huge opportunity.
+100 Yep, you’re right! Wish you weren’t.
Well, Panasonic still has much faster AF speed. Of course also a better lens selection. However, that window is closing rapidly. If they don’t release something like a NEX-7 soon then I don’t know how many serious photo enthusiast will stick around seeing as how every hands on NEX-7 report I’ve read mimics what you just said. Especially in regards to that new EVF. EVF quality is actually more important to me than AF speed is.
I have a GF1 and 8 lenses (olympus and Pany)…had nine but I just shipped out my 14-45mm kit zoom today to CA via eBay…because with all of these great primes…I won’t be using it again. I am a committed customer. The lenses are great for a compact system camera…..but…at this point in time….
I DESERVE an ALL-NEW sensor!!!!!!!! LOL!
oh…AND I am willing to pay for it…especially if it comes in a beautiful pro-like body! 🙂
Yes, a ALL-NEW would be fine.
I would prefer a non Bayer one with AA and color filters. That would be an improvement, not only another incremental step.
We are pixel peeping minutia…that is my point…after more than two years…we should see an IMPROVEMENT. Two photos shot in normal ISO ranges between these two cameras are “almost” indistinguishable.
There has been almost NO change. (faster focusing and frame rate, yes)
“Fixed LCD and lack of a built-in viewfinder? I won’t buy a camera that doesn’t have both, or a movable LCD at the very least. So, I’ll wait for the GH3!”
Although it may be hard to resist a really sexy GX1, I’m of the same opinion. I’ll continue to use my GH2 until Panasonic offers all the features I need in a GH3. In the meantime, I pre-ordered the NEX-7 and the Zeiss 24/1.8 as soon as that was possible. I’ll use it alongside my MFT system to see how the two systems compare.
If people are not pleased with a good G3 sensor than indeed look at the NEX7. It has a better sensor. I don’t think it will be a better camera though…
As long as people keep on directly comparing APS-c with M43s based on sensors almost exclusively they will remain dissapointed for a long long time.
G3 is 6 months old. Who thinks that in that time you can just pull out a clearly better sensor, is not being realistic. If a company could do it, it would be an exceptional achievement.
I think DxOmark plays a significant role in this. Or may be other comparisons, because rarely do I see people being unhappy with their shots. They become unhappy after reading that other sensors are better…
The only thing I can come up with that can be really improved is the low ISO DR. Not much more.
Since this is a G”X”1, it’s assumed that the kit will be with the new 14-42 X lens, but admin can you confirm that? I’d like to see another option with either the 20mm 1.7 or maybe even the 25mm 1.4 Summilux. Any chance of those?
Of the 3 lenses you mention, I can see the new GX1 being bundled with either the X14-42mm or the Leica 25/1.4. I think the 20/1.7 takes too much time to focus and therefore won’t be able to exploit the GX1’s supposedly faster AF. Unless it’s been reworked into a faster focusing MK II version.
People wants this and that without mind. Having swiveling LCD defintely make the body thicker and EVF will add extra height to the body. Not to mention the weight. You want everything and you want a small body. No sense at all. If you need that, go get a G3 or GH2. What’s the point of making every single camera having all the stuff with a different name? That’s not GX1. It’s a G4 or GH3.
Take a close look at the Sony NEX cameras. The tilting screen only adds a negligible amount to the body thickness, if at all. Certainly Panasonic could have added this very useful feature as well without a size penalty.
and the same with the EPL3’s TiltyScreen. It adds a mere 3.8mm thickness over the EPM1. It’s negligible.
Not everyone wants the tiniest possible camera. We want the most flexible and usable camera possible.
Maybe that new EVF does not stick out from the body as much as old one does? Maybe they’ve made it so that it only adds a slight hump ( similar to that Olympus bluetooth addon ).
Very unlikely. After all, they will integrate that hinge again, that allows you to swivel the angel of the viewfinder and rotate it.
I hardly ever use that feature on my VF-2. If they omitted that to make the viewfinder much smaller, I wouldn’t be sad.
an other loosing thing – compared to the NEX 7.
Sure no cool features like the NEX 7.
they had 2 years advantage over Sony but still just make better cameras than a qunatum jump (NEX 7)!!!
is this the end of m4/3 ?
well, they do make more and better lenses: the end of Sony, then?
Zeiss are very well lenses. But agree the (size) lenses of Oly (and new X lenses of Pana) making me waiting for a real good Body with a lot of cool features (like NEX 7) that will not come from Pana & Oly! I think they have the looser gene.. -> Hope I am worong- wake up !!!!!
…yes a beautiful end!!!…it’ll cost much less than sony nex7 and you’ll have a lots of fast autofocus lens to use…;) wide zoom lens(sony doesn’t have) very fast pancake lens(sony dosn’t have) very small anf fast portrait lens(sony doesn’t have)!!
I just dont get it. Pany and Oly have been playing for years, and we suggest again and again for a build in evf rangfinder style pro camera, they just dont listen and always do things in their own way.
But Sony…Bang! straight to the point!
Yeah, not listening and paying for the consequences seems to be a thing with Japanese management, doesn’t it?! *cough* Olympus fraud accusations *cough*
EXACTLY !!!!!! also Panoramafunction & HDR (on .jpg) – it is always the same when marketing people have too much power…
BINGO !!!
Best image quality up to date .
I like that words !
At least got some motivation in this camera .
Thanks admin for the info .
soon (this year) Canon will launch a mirrorlesssystem!… if they don’t make same mistakes like Nikon – hard time will come for PanOly.
It’s unlikely that we should expect more from Canon than from Nikon. Canon is in exact the same position as Nikon with a vast established market of low-quality, entry level DSLRs. Canon will not risk that market. They won’t replace the EOS-1000D. The only way to complement their current DSLR lineup is to position something below that. And even that is risky for them as they have a successful line of PowerShot cameras at a high price point. Think S100.
It’s stupid of course, but Nikon already made the same mistake. And given that Canon has probably been working on their system for at least two years behind the curtains, I am not putting up my hope for anything interesting from Canon. A clever move from Canon would be to abandon their PowerShot cameras with small sensors and introduce a system with interchangeable lenses at the same price point appealing to the same audience.
I put my biggest hopes for something new and exciting in Fuji. Samsung is a lost cause as well, they have proven in their latest iteration that they don’t get it – AT ALL.
So far, Micro Four Thirds is still the most attractive format. It’s a pity Olympus and Panasonic are sleeping on the job.
maybe they need a prince to wake them up? 😉
Was thinking more about good old fashioned military style wake ups.
Should also get their attention better…
But at this space wake up will be sword cutting their head off when some other maker finally figures that you could make mirrorless product range to replace DSLRs instead of keeping them somewhere between ergonomy lacking low end and pocket P&Ses.
Historically Canon has made both bold moves (eagerly replacing MF FD mount with AF EOS) and conservative behavior (post-digital EOS line). Whilst my money is on conservative given their more recent history, I wouldn’t count them out either.
Brilliant move by Panasonic. We can’t compete with Sony Nex7 so we just copy the Ep3. Wont be that successful if u ask me. The last thing m43 needs are overpriced cameras without vf and outdated sensors. Olympus already got that covered with his whole lineup.
+10
Panasonic doesn’t want to compete with their own G3.
What a load of corporate-speak and malarkey!
Add a true rangefinder body and Panasonic would have a complete array of body styles. Even with the GX1, there’s STILL room in their camera line-up for a true rangefinder. If it were $400 dollars cheaper than a NEX-7 it would be HUGE! Coupled with their line-up of native M4/3 lenses, it would make the M4/3 system rock solid and extremely attractive.
+100
Dear Panasonic/Olympus,
I have a GH2 and am very happy with it. I will NOT be buying any new or additional camera until you release a proper GF/Pen style camera with a BUILT IN viewfinder! If Sony (NEX7) and Nikon (V1) can do it, so can you.
Regards,
FTA
P.S. Stop F#&KING around with these minimal camera upgrades, do it right.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+1
😀
GO FUJI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well some readers just want a built-in EVF no matter what. so this will just be another iteration to them
I want a built-in EVF..but I would be interested in this camera IF it had a NEW sensor that produced RAW images with a fuller dynamic range…even at 12MP…. Pany can keep the jpeg engine.
….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz……
IMHO no evf it’s a huge mistake too. If they just added that so many comments here would praise them! Theirs lenses are great, great cameras on performance and looks, I love always as people see my gf1 for the first time and just love it and ask if it’s using a 35mm film XD. As to the sensor and engine, well lots of you talk about being pro and raw, if you’re a pro I guess that a gx1 isn’t the best choice for you. I bought my gf1 above all because I wanted a performing camera that I could carry with all the time everywhere.
Sure panasonic is making a huge mistake and the new external EVF even if it has a decent resolution will be expensive as hell just like the old one and that’s not understandable. Would the camera cost more 200€ if it had an evf?
Sony is far over them – they just have this too big lenses otherwise one could forget OlY/Pana, sorry.
Sony has NOTHING for this photographer with those lens choices. Really. I would rather shoot with my DSLR with some real glass, or use my small compact MFT system with all of its lens choices.
Sony is stuck in some nebulos neverland in between, not hitting the mark.
I don’t understand the enamoration with the NEX output. The colors are so overcooked, and in general, so digital looking. I use m42 because of size and lens choice, and it’s good enough to ISO1600. I’m not dropping m42 for bad, overcooked digital files with giant lenses, and few sensible choices (oh, hand me that 30mm 3.5 macro — who thought of that one!?!?). Oh, and too small cameras (C3) and clicking cameras (5n) and cameras that aren’t here yet (7).
and the Sony Zeiss-“branded” $1200 lens is not “super” sharp. (ala Steve Huff).
HUH?
WOW….now that is going to entice me to sell off my existing system and buy into the Sony. NOT! 🙂
LOL!
This whole thing MFT and NEX is getting pretty funny. Who is making the design decisions…
I guess it is the typical result of a corporate committee…especially the NEX. What a missed opportunity, there.
“Better IQ” with the same sensor simply means “better jpgs.” Panny could always improve their jpgs, so no surprises there (and nothing useful to RAW shooters).
It sounds like they are trying to match the Pens. Good for Panny, but I’m at the point where I’m only going to move off my EPL2 for either a very cheap find on an EP3, or for an m43 RF sized/style body, with a built in VF (I don’t like the “mini DSLR” look of the GH series). I have been considering the G3, but I think I’ll wait out a “Pro” Pen or something other than the GX1, if it is EVF-less.
Once we tought the X would stand for superior quality or something new. Now we know it’s only same marketing bullshit.
The GX1 is the successor of the GF1. So what’s the X standing for???
The ongoing recycling of old, existing sensors and viewfinders (the new one will be no match for the new Sony EVFs) leaves me disappointed.
Since the introduction of m43 people dream of a body that now happens to be made by Sony, and called NEX 7.
BINGO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“So what’s the X standing for???”
high quality buttons… LOL
ah ah ah ah right on !
X for a perfect match with the new and upcoming Xpensive lenses. Starting with that 14-45 X.
Expensive started already with word HD. Photozone’s review show overall optical performance of Pana 14-140mm to be in class of 10+ x zooms Sigma and Tamron do for Canon/Nikon.
What people?
Given that there’s no EVF, I hope they keep the dimensions as small as possible as that’s the whole selling point of this camera. I hope it’s GF2 size rather than GF1.
Sounds like it might be fine to me.
Nex7 with mediocre 16mm lens is $1400?
If GX1 is more compact and half the price I can live with out the viewfinder.
If Im hellbent to look through a viewfinder have 5d2 and 1Ds3 for that.
In my mind, the ultimate goal of mirrorless is to be compact with a decent sized sensor.
Even if I end up with the Nex7, I have doubts how often I would feel the need to look through viewfinder.
Plus, the 24mm Zeiss E-mount is $1,000; the 25mm summilux DG is $600. As long as the 50mm-equivalent focal length works for you (it does for me – I basically lived on 50mm primes on film) you can save another $400 there.
The NEX-7 with the 24mm Zeiss or kit zoom isn’t that much smaller than my Rebel 500D with the 28mm ultrasonic attached – it’s 30-40% lighter, lacks a mirror bump, and loses a couple CM in every dimension. Small noticably better, but the package generally isn’t as compact as 43rds.
NEX-7 is $1200 without lens.
Leica M mount to NEX adaptor costs about $25. Pentax M42 and Nikon adaptors about the same.
My Voigtländer Nokton 35mm f1.4, Pentax SMC Takumars and Nikon AI/AI-s lenses could happily reside there. I’d happily use my GH2 with the 7-14mm, and Nokton 25mm. I might even sell the 14-140mm and 20mm to finance some of it.
It doesn’t mean that I WOULD, only that I COULD… 😉
Panasonic, take note!
If my primary use was non-native lenses, I’d go NEX immediately thanks to sensor, focus peaking and so on. But I’m not. I need my AF sometimes, and I only so much money.
Can’t agree more with what you are saying. The NEX-7’s peak focus capabilities make using real M glass on it a completely viable alternative – the *real* poor man’s M9.
That is what is really exciting to me.
Hm, that camera certainly seems like an afterthought. If they want to appeal to GF-1 users, why don’t they do it “right”, instead of mixing together some parts that they already had.
Wasn’t therea Pana spokesman in the summer who said the biggest areas where they need improvement are AF speed and VF resolution and that they made progress there? Apart from the fact that both are not elementary problems, I cannot but hope that Panasonic actually has a better EVF than the rumors said.
no built in viewfinder, no sale
So buy a G3?
LOL! The use of the term semi-pros is a giveaway, Panasonic is going to try and charge a fortune for it.
m4/3 has best lens for small cameras.
Sony has best body so far.
Samsung has very nice APS pancakes. So it’s possibly to make small, fast and good quality pancakes for APS sensor. They just don’t have interesting cameras.
I wonder who will be first: Sony with small lenses or m4/3 with body with better sensor, built-in EVF and articulated screen?
I bet for GH3, but it won’t look so cool as NEX-7 😉
Anyway I’ll upgrade my old G1 with camera with better DR and EVF.
+1
That is exactly what I think also!!!
It seems for now that Sony, Panasonic and Olympus have show all their cards.
We can only hope that Samsung will bring a rangefinder style body with evf and tillable screen and especially, a good sensor with good DR!!!!
> It seems for now that Sony, Panasonic and Olympus have show all their cards.
And none of them was playing with full deck. I guess they don’t want mirrorless to challenge DSLRs…
ADMIN:
your sources will be shocked ! 😉 ( and later on also the management!)
About what you mean ?
+1111111
These new ‘comments’ you received prove that Panasonic is clueless. They’re trying to sell us on buying a ‘pro’ GF1 because it’s sexy and well built?!? WTF? That’s what pros want? Hey, Panasonic – perhaps you’re confusing pro with poser. Having a camera without an EVF takes away a significant amount of capability, so please don’t call this a pro body if that’s your game. Just call it a GF3 and be done with it. Come up with a true ‘pro’ mirrorless body like and we’ll talk. You don’t have to look far for it – a mirrorless E-5 would be a perfect example of a ‘pro’ mirrorless body you could build, and you’re almost there with the GH series. THAT’s the platform to use for your pro bodies, not the GF series. Don’t try to copy the NEX…
No one has seen the GX1 but everybody says it s bs… There are so many people that liked the gf1 a lot. But a gf1 with a better sensor, bette IQ and better built must be a bad camera?! I don t understand…
Don’t be sad. All those whining now will be the first ones on pre-order lists. And if not we’ll see Panasonic having the right amount of cams in the shops from start on.
To be honest: Everybody cried the GF line is only downgrading, now Pana creates a new rangefinder style line with all (their) available technology as a valid successor of GF1. In contrast to GF line the GX line has room for significant upgrades, accessories, etc.
It’s everybody’s own choice if upgrading from GF1 to GX1 is an option. GX may be a good choice for newbies or as second bodie to G/GH users.
It’s not that the GF1 was a bad camera or that the GX1 may be a better camera than the GF1, it’s that they’re marketing it as a ‘pro’ camera instead of a GF1 replacement, which is what it is.
” P.S.: I asked one of the sources why Panasonic didn’t make a camera with a built-in viewfinder like the Panasonic LC1. His opinion is that Panasonic didn’t want to compete against his own Panasonic G3. If that opinion corrisponds to truth than Panasonic is making a huge mistake (that’s now my personal opinion!). ”
QFAT! (Quoted for Absolute Truth)
I’ve said this before. IF the screen is incredible and looks good at angles and in direct sunlight, then I could live without an EVF for a camera of this format. I have a GH2 for when I’m in a situation where being conspicuous is not an issue. For quality and portability ( pocket-able )and with the controls that I desire, this camera could be very nice but it all depends on the screen. Of course, I’m not going to bet that it will actually be up to snuff…..
The name of the game (business-wise) is “how many times can repackage the same sensor, with only minor tweaks to the body and software and resell it?” if you look at any of the E-px cameras, then you’ll see the evolution from e-p1 to e-p3 was mostly software and slight cosmetics.
“if you look at any of the E-px cameras, then you’ll see the evolution from e-p1 to e-p3 was mostly software and slight cosmetics.”
And it’s good enough for most people on the forums.
In fact, they are so obsessed about styling they will not consider cameras such as the Gx and GHx because they are designed with the “wrong” aesthetics – they don’t mind paying through the nose for under performing cameras such as the E-P3 but they do mind an EVF hump.
It gets more absurd when they try to rationalize that, because actually it has very little to do with rational. Placing the EVF on the left of the camera – unless one is willing to give up some serious LCD real estate – will actually make the camera taller because the EVF has to be placed on top of the screen anyway.
😉
>Placing the EVF on the left of the camera – unless one is willing to give up some serious LCD real estate – will actually make the camera taller because the EVF has to be placed on top of the screen anyway.
The good news is that m43 cameras have, overwhelmingly, 4:3 shaped sensors. If Panasonic could just remember that fact, “width” will be saved in comparison to (something as ridiculous as) the EPL3 @ 16:9. Along the left side, under the EVF you can stick the info button, MF/AF button, playback button, trash button, ect.
Hm.. dunno, but Im somehow not excited. Could be that after GF-2 or GF-3 fails I dont expect much from Panasonic.
And then there is NEX-5N a NEX-7 and frankly, thats different quality league from m4/3s and coupled with RF lens (or any small lens, Contax G for example) it is small and light.
Only strength of m4/3 is currently quite a lot of native AF lens.
Panasonic and Olympus should pray that Canon wont go some high quality mirrorless way. Cause Nikon failed and they pretty much erased themselves from competition.. not even thinking about Pentax Q. 😀
“Only strength of m4/3 is currently quite a lot of native AF lens.”
But the most important (imho)
And 25 f1.4 \ 12 f2 and 45 f1.8 are very high quality lenses at reasonable price.
@Frederic Hew….
Dude, look at NEX7.
I have:
NEX 7 : 120 x 67 x 43 mm
NEX 5N: 110.8 x 62.2 x 38.2 mm
The NEX 7 is much bigger than the 5N, more than what the specs suggest because the 5N is not flat (the lens mount is actually taller than the rest of the camera).
See here : http://www.dpreview.com/news/1108/11082419sonynex7overview.asp
Placing the EVF on the left as opposed to the center does not contribute to a smaller camera – it is still positioned on top of the LCD.
@Frederic Hew:
Compare NEX7 with G3 and GH2. NEX7 is significantly smaller.
NEX7 67 mm tall.
G3 84 mm tall.
Sure, but compare the GF1 with the Nex 5 or 3: Nex cameras have always been smaller than their m43 counterparts.
Can you explain how moving the EVF from the center to the side – assuming it still is positioned on top of the LCD – can make a smaller camera?
Frederic, it was YOU who jumped to that the size reduction should come from moving the EVF to the corner. I want the EVF at the corner for being able to put my eye on the EVF without my nose squezing against the LCD.
And I dont care about differences between NEX5 and NEX7.
The point is that there is the same in NEX7 and G3/GH2 (actually there is more in NEX7), which shows that it is possible to make a compact camera with all these features, and without making it cramped and with poor controls.
Panasonic decided when they launched the G1, that it shouldnt be too “revolutionary”, so as to not scare DSLR customers away. So they added the stupid fake hump, and didnt do everything possible to reduce the size (despite that it was the whole idea behind m43). And since then subsequent G/GH cameras havent changed that.
Thanks for sharing your opinion, with your kind permission I’ll leave it at that.
For my part I think the GX1 sounds promising.
Any informations about the video part ? Manual controls on 1080P ? Just hope… because it’s a minimum in a “pro” body in 2011/2012.
Dear Panasonic
The main reason I do not like the external viewfinder is because it uses the hotshoe. When I use a third party flash system I can not use the view finder. It also adds bulk and destroys the compactness of the camera. I would be very happy if you removed the built in flash and replaced it with a built in evf.
Don’t worry about competing with the g3. I’m sure you can add a stronger chip and have more features which will put it at a different price range and target the camera enthusiast. The key is built in evf. I will be passing on the gx1 and wait for the gx2 or gx7 or the Fuji panny killer.
Love D
Really disappointed. I have been a devout Panasonic supporter for years as I believe they are an innovative company. But this rumored release really let me know. It’s been two years since the announcement of GF1 and Panasonic had plenty of time to make some creative improvements over it. But now it sounds like GX1 is just a minor upgrade from the ‘dated’ GF1. In fact, I think GX1 is what GF2 should have been. And GF3 should have been what the GF7 was rumored to be, with built-in EVF, etc.
The G3 is underrated! Best IQ of the m43 system today, and many features (builtin evf, swivel lcd…)!
And good price: for a EP3 + EVF2 you can buy almost two Panasonic G3!
@Leendert.
Yes, that is what I say too.
But with just a few changes it will satisfy me and a lot of others a lot more. just rearrange the existing bits just a little. Add a real grip, remove the hump, and place the EVF at the corner. Finito, you got the camera everyone is BEGGING panasonic to make.
I’m interested to know if it shoots 24p/1080p and has full manual controls for video. That’s the dealbreaker for me. If it incorporates the body style of the GF1, faster AF/controls, better image quality than what Panny currently has, AND has the GH2 video capabilities, then I’m all in.
I recall reading a rumor or leak about 24p, 60p, and manual on the GFX1. Two more weeks we’ll know.
From these rumor comments apparently coming from Panasonic I would conclude the GX1 is actually based on an upgrade of the GF2 which was due at this time? Unless all the many previous rumors from many sources are all wrong, I for one believe there still is the GPRO model coming this spring or near future. Of course Pany would not admit it at this stage or would detract from the GX1 initial sales. With NEX7 production delayed they feel they can afford to wait some with the GPRO announcement?
My hopes are the new EVF is an OLED one with fast refresh rate which judging from the Sony design would be smaller than the existing 1.44m EVF used by Pany in current models.
> …I for one believe there still is the GPRO model coming this spring or near future.
Don’t hold your breath. First, you already missed this spring 😀 Second, Panasonic themselves said they had no desire to make a pro camera.
There is already a GF3.
Besides, a pro model contradicts what the GF series stands for: compactness. A real pro model would be much larger (weather sealed, needed stability for larger lenses).
While it may be true that the GX1 has the best image quality of all m43 cameras to date, it does not mean the quality is what we could expect or what Pana could have achieved. Again, I don’t understand how the GX1 competes with the G3 – with or without viewfinder. This indicates that the feature set is extremely similar. The concept of a high-end GF camera is vastly different from the G3. A shame that Panasonic can’t or won’t deliver that.
Panasonic, why don’t you just remove the viewfinder from the G3, keep the tilt screen, and brand it as the GX-1? I bet that I would not be the only one interested, even if I would have to use an external EVF…
if the external viewfinder is reasonably priced, i would buy it.
heck, i’ll probably buy it anyway, i need a new camera
I don’t know why so many people go on about the lack of lenses for the NEX cameras. When I bought my E-P1 way back there weren’t that many native m4/3 lenses available.
Give them time people, in two years there will be all kinds of lenses available for the NEX cams. Until then, use an adapter like we did in the early days of m4/3.
M43 people are far too much conscious that :
– they want a well balanced system
– not as heavy as Dslr
– big enough to feel comfortable in hands
– with nice access to controls
– with nice set of lens
– able to face a variaty of situations
– therefore including evf an likely tiltable lcd
The problem is that pany has everything to deliver and does not !
– nex7 has huge and lim
– with good set of
> – not as heavy as Dslr
Dropping away mirror, big glass prism and other parts of OVF (+ bulk of mirror chamber) in favor of EVF should give lighter body without doing anything of these ergonomy destroying grip and overal size shrinks.
Optics of OFV are very substantially sized (and glass weights) in higher end bodies like Nikon D3 or Olympus E-3:
http://forum.mflenses.com/cutaways-and-transparent-cameras-t28075.html
Now imagine how much less space NEX-7’s viewfinder takes in comparison.
Mirrorless tech would allow one comaptible system to have very different bodies for different market segments.
Still instead of using mirrorless tech and EVF to cut bulk and weight in places where it’s possible without worsening ergonomy and controls all we get is this mania of shrinking everything… except that price doesn’t shrink in same relation.
Photorumors says it will be announced Friday October 28.
Gimme a G3 with the G2 manual controls and I’d be happy.
Seems to me if they made a viewfinder that slotted on the left side of the top face a lot of people would be very happy with that. And if you could choose between left and right, another ten percent would be thrilled.
Hmm, thanks for the 10%. I’m used to have the shutter on the right.
But why has the VF to be coupled at all? Bluetooth connection may be sufficient and you could have a remote screen and/or viewfinder.
I am as always ever hopeful that it will have the controls of the LC1…
ie no mode dial – but shutter time and an aperture ring – I know I dream
but somehow i find it so much faster and simpler to take photos like this.
With the mode dial one needs to remember so many configurations while with a
direct manual control of shutter speed and aperture there is no messing with menus
Oh also to have an ISO dial as well…
I have had cameras with fully articulating LCDs and in-body EVFs but after shooting with the GF1 for the last year I can honestly say that I don’t miss either one. If you “know” the lens you have on the body, why do you need a titling LCD? For me, it’s satifying to capture a shot by trusting the knowledge of my equipment. I’m an amateur photographer so I can afford “missing” the odd shot, but that “miss” only makes capturing the next “great” shot all the more satisfying.
Unfortunately we have a spoiled generation of photographers who expect everything in a camera so there is basically no way to take a “bad” picture. That takes the magic out of photography for me, but I also grew up shooting film cameras where you actually took your time to set-up a shot instead of simply “spray” shooting and picking the best shot in PP (which is a disgrace to photography but I can see its use for pro photographers).
Other than gaining a couple more stops of DR, the current m4/3 sensors provide more than adequate IQ up to 800iso (which is all you need if you know what you’re doing and have decent glass)for 98% of what any of us (non-pros) are doing with our pictures post-capture.
I think the reason the GF-1 has such a following is because it is a fun, reliable, pocketable, and logical (layout/controls) camera to shoot with. If this GX-1 meets/exceeds that criteria while advancing IQ, DR, AF speed, build quality, LCD IQ, external EVF quality, and maintains the great battery life of the GF-1, it will eventually become Panny’s 2nd m4/3 cult classic simply because it will be a very capable camera that makes you want to hold it and shoot with it all the time. Isn’t that what it’s all about? People still buy GF1s, and in our fast moving age of technology that is an extremely impressive feat for Panasonic. You can have a camera with every feature imaginable, but if it’s not beside you when a nice shot is available, or it doesn’t entice you to pick it up and shoot anything/everything all the time then what’s the point of having it?
I have never owned a camera other than the GF-1 that I can just look at and want to pick it up and go shoot with. Thanks for keeping the “magic” alive Panny. I hope the GX-1 will make the GF-1 proud, and can’t wait to use it to capture the world around me for the next few years!
For those of you who “need” an internal VF (so your camera body looks cool) and tilt-screen (because you don’t trust your photographic instincts and knowldege of your lens frame)go buy a reasonably priced G3 or pay a ridiculous amount and buy a Nex-7 so you can pretend that it’s making you a better photographer.
Are you saying that if you “know” your lens, you can compose your shot just by the direction you point your camera? Without looking at the viewfinder or screen?
You must really “know” your lens because I can’t fathom how you would be able to focus on someone eyes in a portrait or focus on the correct subject in a telephoto or narrow DOF situation just by pointing.
Either your comments only apply to everything-in-focus landscape photography, or you “know” you lenses much more intimately than I know mine… like maybe the bible definition of “knowing” something?
I think GX1 will receive a cult status, like GF1. NEX7 and 5N are certainly a good body, but their lenses are nothing but a joke, except new Zeiss. NEX lenses will be better in the future but 5N and 7 body will be already dated at that time.
RE: It has the same G3 sensor but also a new much improved processing engine.
With all the software corrections needed for the new lenses, it’s better that the camera handles it, than relying on the external computers to correct it.
However, if shooting raw, you might let the Adobe Ligtroom or Apple Aperture process it. But with video, you don’t shoot raw, do you??
I must say I am interested. I have actually come around to thinking there are advantages to an accessory viewfinder. It can be articulated and I can leave it at home when I don’t need it for a smaller camera. I only wish they would take it a few steps farther with a remote finder cord and perhaps a remote LCD.
An improved image pipeline could do as much for me as a new sensor, and a better control feel would be nice as well.
I have been thinking of a move to NEX or Olympus, but this might be enough to keep me with Panasonic for another camera generation.
When a company is working out a strategy based on not competing with its own products, like Panasonic or Nikon, instead of thinking of the demand of the photographer, the company starts to fall down!
That is a great way to put it. Panasonic and Olympus should chisel that above the doors in their corporate offices.
+100 !!!
Why are people so impatient? OK, Sony have built up some technological lead over m43. So what? They are lagging in lens design, and it will probably remain so in the future due to the unwise choice of the backfocus distance.
Regarding m43, IMO we can realistically expect some real technological advances in a year or so. GH3 will have a new better sensor for sure, even a slight change in appearances and ergonomics can be expected thanks to the competition. Who knows, maybe even Olympus will come with something innovative after they boot out their rotten board that pisses away money needed for R&D 🙂
What I really don’t understand is that continuous DSLR-styled-or-nonDSLR-styled babblement. Yes, I also like the Nex-7 more than my GH-2, but.. style is not SO important: Are we women or what?
If you think it’s about style, you don’t get it.
It’s much simpler: The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence
@ Martin : We are not impatients, we have been waiting for 2 years
@ Laeric : Is it so hard to figure out that we just want to shoot teles with full camera control, but also push the camera into our bag without the EVF bulk ?
Basically, we are simply worried that m43 keeps the attractivity that was earned through a wise design. That is as simple as that !
ArKersaint, are you seriously saying that taking literally 5 seconds or less to take off an external EVF so it fits in a small bag is a show-stopper for you? If so I have underestimated the laziness of today’s society. I’d rather have the ability to take that EVF off so I can fit it in a small bag / large pocket than to have a G3 that is just a little too big to fit in a pocket or a Nex-7 that you would have to take the lens off before it has any size benefit over a small DSLR.
I’m not sure what you meant about “shooting teles” but if you are referring to telephoto lenses than their bulk is way larger than any external EVF. IMO, you’ve got the wrong format if you shoot mostly telephoto lenses. These m4/3 and Nex bodies aren’t a useful balance for large (tele) lenses from my experience. From what I’ve read on these forums, you’re a minority if you shoot mostely tele lenses on the m4/3 format.
Either way, best of luck finding your perfect camera. I’ll continue to enjoy shooting on my well designed and capable GF-1, and will welcome the high potential of the GX-1.
I’m increasingly interested in this camera because of the external EVF and the 14-42 X lens. It could be the perfect travelling companion, as a built-in EVF definitely adds bulk. I currently pack around the GH2 and 3+ lenses, which really is more than desirable when trying to travel light. But I do want manual controls, and an external microphone port. Have high hopes that the GX1 and 2-3 of the new X lenses will be a large leap in improving portability, and the build quality is up to the rough and tumble of being on the road. Price? Expect about $750 with the 14-42 X, and $250 for the EVF. A $1000 is worth it, if the quality and function is there. Hope we get to see pictures and specs Friday.
Just suck a built-in viewfinder into GX-1 even though I don’t use it very often ! I want to have a “Range Finder” look camera. It make me feel Cool and I willing to pay more for it ! Who care about a better button and/or tweaked G3 sensor ???
If the body is truly high quality like Leica, the the story would be completely different. Do you know that the price of GX1 will be about the same as 5N?
I’m sure that Panasonic is reading these comments, so I will lend my voice to the herd.
Words are cheap. We have received all of these bad pick-up lines from other camera companies a dozen times in the past. They were all blowing smoke up our asses.
If Panasonic doesn’t want to compete with itself, that means that it would rather sell two cameras that some people want, than one camera that a lot of people want. I thought that Apple had proved that business model wrong.
This is indicative of a company that has no interest in breaking new ground or pushing things forward. I’m very disappointed.
“It has the same G3 sensor but also a new much improved processing engine.”
Well, if you can’t make a better sensor, you’ve got to do with better image processing. Everyone else is coming out with new and improve technology while m43 stand still. I have a strong feeling that CES will begin m43 fade away. That’s when the Fuji mirrorless joins the NEX-7 as serious mirrorless. Leica and Canon very likely will introduce in 2012, and I am pretty sure they will be serious cameras and not toys. Add the FF NEX-9 in 2012. m43 had 3 years lead and completely frittered it away. Well, in Oly’s case, they had no choice. Appears the Yakuza wanted their protection money. Oly and Pana are business geniuses! LOL
Sure a lot of whining about a camera no-one here has seen.
APPLE had marketing people to sell products!
APPLE had engnieres (like St. Jobs) who mad product which they like for them selfe !!!! and not what marketing people think what useres would like to have probably & to get as much money from them. (e.g. Pentax story…)
Sony has only one problem that the lenses are too big but the whole package is not bigger than m4/3. And Sony has the cool features which can be updated by the users!!!!
Not wanting to compete with the G3 does not make any sense at all. It’s not like the GX1 is a lower end camera than the G3, so they do not want the cheaper model to have all the features of the higher end. Actually, I would not mind the GX1 if it actually costs less than the G3.
Of course, that is not the case and the GX1 is a higher end model, so it does not make sense for them to remove features because they fear the high end model might have too many features of the lower end model (G3). The whole point of a high end model at a higher price point is to be better and have more stuff.
I agree completely. I think Panasonic is aiming above the G3 with the GX1, so the GX1 will have some features with higher specifications (LCD screen, customisable UI, etc.). But the GX1 may still sit below the GH cameras in Panasonic’s MFT line. So some of the features like a new higher resolution EVF may still be reserved for the GH3. Or simply not ready yet. In interviews Panasonic has suggested that the GH3 will have some sort of global shutter as well as an improved EVF. My GH2 will probably do its job until then.
Honestly, it will come down to price.
With no built-in EVF, but it would include the new X kit lens, then the top price I would consider is $799. I would pay a $100 premium over the Nex-5N kit lens set for the smaller X lens.
The current GF3 with X lens kit price is ridiculously overpriced.
Unfortunately I think the new GX1 is going to be expensive and Panasonic will continue to lose ground to a very aggressive Sony and Nikon who has commercials running AROUND THE CLOCK and on big shows and sporting events.
“P.S.: I asked one of the sources why Panasonic didn’t make a camera with a built-in viewfinder like the Panasonic LC1. His opinion is that Panasonic didn’t want to compete against his own Panasonic G3. If that opinion corrisponds to truth than Panasonic is making a huge mistake (that’s now my personal opinion!).”
Actually, that’s not necessarily a bad response; we just have to be clear on what exactly the mistake would be here. In my mind, the mistake is the design of the G3 and the GH2.
It does makes sense for Panasonic to offer both smaller no-EVF models and larger models with built-in EVF. The questions are (a) how many of each, (b) how to differentiate them, (c) how to design them. My take is that the GF3 and the GX1 are fine no-EVF designs, but in the built-in EVF front, the G3 and GH2 SLR-like body shape is just wrong. The G3 *should* have been the GF1-with-EVF that people wanted. (Heck, the G1 should have been it!)
At current stock prices, Panasonic should just buy Olympus. A way to get into the medical market, the high end microscopes. Might even compete with Leica at the microscope end.
But then use the Olympus Jpeg engine and in body stabilization in all there cameras. That would be good, the skin tones on the panasonic Jpegs still look odd, Not as good as Olympus or Sony.
same sensor will or has already killed the possible success of this product even if it will have a great interface, dual viewfinder, great build, black colour, or whatever suprise, the sensor just sucks, panasonic give me a break with this PR blah, I own the L1 which is probably one of the smoothest digital cameras to use, but the sensor for todays standards is outdated, please not the same mistake with the GX1, or i smell a flop product
funny thing, that the sensors from the L1 to L10 -> G1 ->GX1 havent come a very long way….. olympus is shooting in its own foot with the same errors… E-p3 raw looks the same as E-620 raw or G1 raw… sad
Built in evf = real feeling camera
Shooting through a screen = iphone
Got that panasonic
-1
Minus 1
Seems the problem at Panasonic is overall product strategy. They can make good components, but they don’t know how to put them together. They could soon have the GF3, G3, GH3 and GX1 all competing against each other in roughly the same space. And not one of them offering direct competition with the NEX 7.
To me the product strategy is one of the best. One mount five body (incl. AG-AF100)alternatives, which are -opposite to PEN and NEX- really distinctive.
Direct competitor to NEX-7? GH2 with better ergonomics and control layout. With the next body round up in 2013 Panasonic will set the landmark against the NEX-7.
As I said before: with its soft controls, the NEX-7 is a “fake rangefinder”.
Panasonic they will never produce a camera that can do everything …
Thanks for sharing your opinion. With your permission, I’ll leave it at that.
GH2 vs NEX-7? Hmmmm.
NEX-7 is smaller, lighter, better looking, has better ergonomics, build quality and more manual controls, shoots 10 frames per second and has a much higher resolution viewfinder and LCD.
Higher resolution, higher dynamic range and lower noise sensor.
GH2 has better AF lens selection and perhaps slightly faster CDAF, that’s about it.
If the NEX-7 is a ‘fake rangefinder’ the GH2 is certainly a ‘fake DSLR’
NEX-7 better ergonomics, more manual controls? No way! Look at it carefully. Everything is soft controlled. No way to tell the camera’s state unless the camera is on and you look at the screen. This is BAD ergonomics. Also, the NEX-7 has not more manual controls. Or – can you tell me, where is the SWITCH for
– AF-mode
– AF characteristic
– operation mode
The NEX-7 is nothing more than a GF3 on steroids. A typical NEX and certainly not the long awaited rangefinder. It is the “anti X100”.
thats bullshit mate. Have you seen the dust reduction methods on the pansonic’s vs NEX for a start? YouTube that shit. Then have a look at a tear down of the NEX’s vs Oly and Pana. In particular take note of the lens mounts. Pana and Oly have the industries most solid and strong lens mounts, and their lenses are SMALLER than NEX…
Ergonomics: you have got to be kidding right? Maybe if all you ever use is a pancake on the 7!
Don’t forget the GH2’s video, and how in Australia there is no limit to record time. No sensor overheating regardless…
Better looking? Without a doubt. Just the looks alone had me wanting one. Love the soft controls even tho as already stated they don’t tell you anything without the camera on. And inbuilt viewfinder is a win. But at a very large loss of an inbuilt flash.
Better still image quality? Also without a doubt. But why would you pay so much more for the 7 when the 5 matches and then bests it at high iso’s?
But does it have all the features that make Panasonic GH2 so legendary? Not by a mile. And in saying that, the 7 is a class above, so it’s not even comparing apples with apples.
just build gorgeous products – this is everything people want & no marketing shit !!!!!!!!!!
http://www.imageresource.com :
We obviously can’t conclude a whole lot from a camera that we’ve only seen in barely-functional prototype form, but what we’ve seen looks tremendously impressive.
Oly & Pana wake up – it is time to…
In my country it seems Panasonic already satisfied with their TV and AC product, unlike Olympus that keep their PEN presence.
i find it interesting admin uses these fake mock ups for pictures. this one really doesnt look like any thing panasonic is making today, and i think they really wouldnt go back to such an obvious old design.
to me it looks like retro junk.
the gf1 is a real camera and much nicer designed, why dont you show a picture of the gf1 admin, if you think the gx1 is it´s successor?
and whats with the lugs, show me a gf 1-3 with those lugs. its a panasonic, not an olympus, do the people making these mock ups have any understanding of branding.
You have no idea…
No matter how good it is to touch it wont get me to part with my money as what I want is an X100/Nex 7 type camera, and no, a G3 isn’t it and if Panny wont make one I’ll look to someone else.
I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one sick of waiting for Panny.
It has nicer buttons? Seriously, that’s the reason it’s “better than we think”?
NO viewfinder, NO sale, sorry Panasonic. NEX 7 for me!
Craig
taxidinner.com
Hi Admin
Can you put more comments on one page before having to click “older comments”.
Tx
Wow, 220+ comments. Panasonic needs to get rid of the viewfinder hump in the G3 successor (and possibly add more buttons) and shut us all up 😛
I for one love the electronic viewfinder that tilts up
as it allows for a great street photography
(interestingly most people dont notice photographer
looking down into the camera, VS using the traditional viewfinder)
so if i can upgrade from my gf1 body and keep my lenses/viewfinder—I’m in.
They will deffinately be compatible.
First of all, for all those whiners who want a camera with a built-in EVF and tilt-screen, Panasonic has two models what are a great choice: the GH2 and G3. No, they don’t look like rangefinders, but I do believe, from what I’ve heard, that they are both fully capable of taking photos AND video!
It seems like the GX1 is going to be exactly what Panasonic said it’s going to to be: the true replacement for the much loved (and purchased!) Lumix GF1. So that’s what we will be getting. Sounds good to me.
As a died-in-the-wool Olympian, I bought into Panasonic’s version of micro 4/3 instead of Olympus, for the following reasons:
– Built-in EVF’s
– IS in the lenses, which is better for video use.
– A really nice selection of lenses, even better than what Olympus was offering.
– Awesome video capabilities, along with good quality still photos.
Since I like viewfinders, the GF1 did not interest me much when it came out. Nor have any of the Pens appealed to me for the same reason: no built-in EVF.
But I’m not at the point where I’d be willing to try a Pen or GX1 with a clip-on EVF, if that’s what it comes to. As long as the image quality is there, along with the build quality, I will be interested.
I just hope this new EVF that will debut with the GX1 will work on the LX5 as well. If so, that could make for a nice pair of cameras to have, much like Olympus users can use EVF on their Pens and XZ-1’s.
– Olympius
Too everyone here that wants a built in VF (and wants it off to the side like nex7) : its bad if you want to shoot with a telephoto. The “SLR” hump in the middle of the camera like on the G3/GH2 is a good thing believe me! Also i love the add on VF because you can tilt them up for creative angles. And one more point: the flip out screens are better for tripod work : tilt out screens are usless when you turn that camera on its side….so a big praise to Panasonic!
But the GF form factor is not for shooting telephot anyway. This is where Panasonic should make the distinction: G is the allround model, that appeals to people who think DSLR-form is somehow superior (lots of people that have only seen Nikon and Canon). GH is the high end model for people that want to shoot telephot, have articulated screen etc. GX is the high-end take-everywhere model. The only compromise there should be no-flip screen (for portablity (if they can make it thin, go ahead though), and maybe less video controls (to distinguish it from the GH2). Build quality of both should be very good.
That gives you at the low and middle end GF and G, and at the top end GX and GH. Have the price progress in the same order, I see this as a very good setup. Soccer moms go for GF, people who would buy a 1100D go for G, people who would buy a NEX-7, Fuji X … go for GX, and people who want the best Pana can deliver go for GH.
Two years ago I deliberated between the G1 and the GF1. Loved everything about the GF1 but bought he G1 because it has a viewfinder.
Next time around, if the GX1 has no VF the decision will be the NEX7.
Listen, Panny!
The only thing that keeps me hanging on to Panasonic are the lenses but Oly have their really nice new ones too now. I have a feeling that I may be joining the NEX7 crowd.
Panny have Leica, Sony have Zeiss. The lenses will be great but at the moment Panny feel boring with their products and Oly/Sony seem to be a little more forward thinking.
James Allworth:
They can do it because Apple hasn’t optimized its organization to maximize profit. Instead, it has made the creation of value for customers its priority. When you do this, the fear of cannibalization or disruption of one’s self just melts away. In fact, when your mission is based around creating customer value, around creating great products, cannibalization and disruption aren’t “bad things” to be avoided. They’re things you actually strive for — because they let you improve the outcome for your customer.
Announcment in two days and still no pictures? poor…
There will be no announcement in two days!
Photorumors says friday 28. oct.
On image quality: your sources had similar bold claims about image quality when Olympus’s latest cameras were introduced. They proved to only pertain to JPEG quality, RAW quality was identical to older cameras. This is to be expected since the sensor is the same, and there’s only so much you can do with a new processor.
I bet my hat this is exactly the same with the upcoming Panny since the sensor is not new. JPEG performance doesn’t matter to me; give me a new damn sensor already. With IBIS.
An interesting – and long – discussion. Panasonic marketeers seem to belief that there are two kinds of system cameras: DSLRs and “compact system cameras.” The former have built in EVFs and the latter don’t, because Panasonic puts more marketing emphasis on the people moving from point and shoots who take photos at “arms length” than it does in people like those on this site.
But I want a take everywhere camera like my GF1 that has a built in EVF so I don’t have the bulk and complexity of the add-on EVF. I don’t use larger lenses (zooms and telephotos) with the GF1 that won’t fit with the camera in my jacket pocket. I have my G1 (GH2 maybe) for that. I look forward to more lenses for GF1 style camera, like the collapsible 14-42 and pancakes that differentiate Panasonic from Sony in spite of Sony technical superiority.
The Sony NEX7 seems to be a great camera. So does the NEX5n. I want to see the Panasonic competitor for that camera, and not just for the NEX5n.
NEX7 has excellent EVF, swivel LCD (with very good resolution), 3 wheels, the best APS sensor with higher Mpix and better DR (!), and is smaller then GH2 and G3.
How GX1 will compete with it?
Not. (Look at the price.)
hello guys,
can someone explain me why G3 sensor it’s such a good one. i know that GH1 and GH2 sensor are pretty damn good cameras from they top ( pro ) line . So why G3 sensor is better than GH1( or 2 ) ?
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/701|0/(brand)/Panasonic/(appareil2)/677|0/(brand2)/Panasonic/(appareil3)/632|0/(brand3)/Panasonic
actually isn’t better … why should i upgrade from my GF1 ? i think panny marketing bureau is quite retard. they should use better or an new sensor for they Gx1.. many peoples and gf1 users wait for such a long time an new and better camera . i won’t buy it . design sound nice but isn’t that enough for leaving gf1.
The gf1 represented a revolutionary product back in 2009. Early adopters flocked to it and promoted the product on the web and to friends and family. These evanglical users are the best customers a product can have (just ask Apple). Patiently these users have waited for upgrades, namely a better sensor, tilting screen, better evf etc. Panasonic has totally ignored this input. Sony has not, they have produced the camera that Evanglical camera users have demanded. The NEX7. I am very dissapointed as a m43 fan that panasonic is squandering the goodwill of its most prominent users by not significantly inproving m43.
I really like my m43 lens 14, 20, 45mm and i know that the Nex does not have the same capability, but i have a Nex7 on order and can no longer advise friends to look at m43 for best in class performance. Its hard to argue that Panny is on the correct couse when the hottest mirrorless cameras in 2012 will be Sony cameras.
I truly hope that the GX1 is smaller than the GF1. Other then that, it sounds like my dream camera. I was originally planning to get the Sony NEX-5n, but it has a fatal video clicking flaw which doesn’t seem to be fixed soon so this allows me to wait for Panasonic’s next camera.
PS: What viewfinder ? It’s a highly overrated useless item for those looking for compact high quality cameras. And Panasonic has plenty of cameras with viewfinder.
Yikes, I hope Panny doesn’t pull a Nikon… Like they say, if you aren’t willing to cannibalize your own market, someone else will do it for you. I guess it’s down to Canon to steal the show, otherwise it’s Sony’s ball game once the NEX-7 and new lenses hit the street.
http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=250&t=2419771
Yes, Its the same mentality they put into consumer electronic. Loads of different model but fail to package one that actually field those features together better.
Sony learn that the hard way with their previous DSLR Alpha. Their current NEX lineup reflect a revamped and much more logical strategy regarding.
Panasonic and Olympus on the other hand is fragmenting the already crowded and ever more competitive sector with more models that do not deviate enough. Looking at the lineup. The G3, and GX-1 and of course the E-P3 ( and well many say up coming E-Pen with the new sensor and possibly build in EVF ) and add the GH2, well we are talking about what 5 models for one system aiming for the dedicated enthusiast. We have the GF-2, GF3, E-PL3, E-PM3 all gunnign for the amateur / consumer market. Can’t see any advantage on that.
Though I think the GX-1 seems more like M4/3’s take on Sony NEX-5N instead. And the 5N is stock retail now and proven a great performer. Can’t see I can be attracted to the GX-1 , especially in the light of NEX-7 / NEX-5N combo