And gone are the hopes that the GF3 might uses the same new [shoplink 22077]G3[/shoplink] sensor. The GF3 will use a 12 Megapixel sensors which looks likes to be the same as the one used for the [shoplink 17361]GF2[/shoplink]. The specs are the same as the GF2 (same video quality). So the GF3 is only about size reduction and nothing else.
The other news is that the new Leica 25mm and the GF3 will be announced at 7am London time on Monday. As usual I will be here to give you all the links to previews, reviews, videos and other stuff like that. As usual help is appreciated! If you find some link or something I missed drop me a line at 43rumors@gmail.com! Thanks!
Panasonic G3 preorder search links to [shopcountry 22077].
Panasonic G2 specs at [shopcountry 17361].
170 Responses
Title shd be gf 3 not g3
Corrected Thanks!
Alas, no pocket G3 just yet. Maybe next year.
well, that is quite a dissapointment, so what is the point of this camera apart from some panasonic manager decided to please all his young escorts?
the same video quality means – we still won’t be able to control aperture at video mode?!?
I hate focus jumping all over the place (when its wide open) without any control over it, plus GF2 simply looks to be of better build quality than this cheap-plastic-looking-non-sense…
another thing, hope Olympus will get it right this time with PL3micro, plus IBIS is a big win for me as panasonic doesn’t offer primes with optical stabilization and I need a compact video shooter as well.
Stupid move not to put the new 16mp sensor…if not priced under 400€, this is a nonsense camera.
Stupid move only if it’s not much cheaper than NEX-C3. And NX200.
“True” GF1 successor should get the G3 sensor right? Or maybe GH3 sensor?
M43 never was about IMPROVEMENTS.
NEX and DSLR are what drive the industry.
oly an pana are only sucking the money from people who are more concerned about SIZE then QUALITY.
Of course Panasonic are concerned about size. They can never compete successfully on quality against APS-C sensors models. It’s the combination of size and pretty good IQ that mFT must sell on. People buying a GF3 type camera are looking for improvements compared to small sensor digicams and that’s what they get.
“oly an pana are only sucking the money from people who are more concerned about SIZE then QUALITY.”
If so, then sony is only sucking the money from people who are more concerned about SIZE then USABILITY.
Yeah then why bother coming to this place?
the sensor is “good enough”. I LOVE my gf1. If you need the 16mp….get the G3. If you want a tiny interchangeable lens camera, get the gf3. If you want a cool one (like the LC1) wait for the next announcement (hopefully).
“NEX and DSLR are what drive the industry.”…LOL…..;))))))))))
…please another quote like this…!!!!!….really really funny…;)
Hmmm. Obviously not over ambitious camera. It’s not that the target audience needs 16 megapixels – they’d be OK with 5. But they need to see higher number in the spec sheet. Let’s hope that 12 Mpx sensor is refreshed a bit, performs better than the current one while keeping the price lower.
this is very sad, i don’t understand panasonic’s strategy… and this means that next olys could have again the same sensor. pathetic!
paris hilton and co. will love it.
not for me…. too ugly… no improvments.
It might upset those of us who care about features and things but this is most likely not aimed at us. The people who are most interested in this camera are probably fine with the sensor as long as they can get it in the smallest body possible. It would be good to have the G3 sensor but it’d probably cost more too. I’m fine with them positioning the GF line as their budget line with the intent of getting as much people into mirrorless cameras as possible. I just hope we get a true replacement to the GF1. I’d be happy if they put the G3 sensor in the GF1 body.
smallest body possible.. yeah with an 14-42 it will help you next to nothing.
and if i only use a pancake you could go for a body with a fixed lens.
useless….
Panasonic (and Olympus) don’t get it. We want different body concepts (small: GFx and versatile GHx) with the SAME image quality and sensor, using the same lens system. Is that so difficult to understand?
Is it so hard to exploit the potential of mirrorless ?
Do we? Again, who are we? I see people complain all day long about not enough difference between oly-cams, doesn’t seem like people want the same image quality from different models.
Personally I am a bit dissappointed the did not use the new sensor, It shouldn’t negativly impact size to use it.
Utterly ridiculous!
1.Any hope for improved 12mp sensor? or at the DAC would be improved
2.it may be a good news, if the price is right (399$)
frosti7, Maybe you have right, a old GH1 sensor but not aspect size.
And same sensor to E-P3 also.
awesome, after Olympus now Panasonic is letting us down too. I didn’t want that camera, but it says an awful lot if they only reduce the size, sintead of trying to get better perfomance and quality.
If the GF3 doesn’t cheap, why should I buy that shit.
If you think it’s shit then the price don’t matter much. Get something else.
+1 D
These ultra compacts like the GF3, GF2 & NEX-3C are not being marketed toward existing m4/3 & DSLR users. They’re all about getting a portion of the highend P&S market. There are other existing models and more coming for the serious enthusiast.
I agree with you Tmrgrs. I guess its just a shame that the same G3 sensor is not available in such a compact form. Alot of us would like to have a smaller body (say GF3 or Pen Mini) in addition to a more enthusiast model and we would like to have the same (or similar) IQ in both. I guess Panasonic dont want to give every GF3 owner the best possible IQ if most are not going to appreciate it. I DONT agree with that approach myself but that seems to be their view.
I often wonder about how the costs turn out for Panasonic. Sure the existing 12MP sensor is likely to be cheaper than the 16MP in the G3, but if they used the 16MP sensor in a variety of bodies they would get the economies of scale and the price would come down for all bodies. Its not like its any larger in size – it just uses a different manufacturing process. Anyway I hope Panasonic will come out with some sort of GF1 replacement with the G3 sensor.
Admin – any news on the Oly sensors to be used in the E-P3 and Pen-Mini? I really hope its not the same old 12MP sensor. If Panasonic isnt updating maybe Oly isnt either.
Hmmm that’s a pity. I think that this form-factor with the selling point of the G3’s 16mp would have made a killing in the target market.
Yes, indeed. A GF3, specced similarly to the G3, would have made an excellent pancake-platform companion camera. Bummer if it’s true, though.
Although, with a 12MP sensor, maybe it’ll be $100 cheaper and fill it’s (I suppose) intended niche as an ENTRY LEVEL camera. $399 would be a decent entry level price (body only).
I could still see getting one for my 20mm or even 7-14mm. The 14-140mm on the thing would be funny.
Don’t you think this all about size–and differentiating the 3 lines (with a possible 4th later in the year)? I suspect they felt pressure to have something to compete with the new NEX size wise which seems to be what many want–very small. The NEX is doing very well in Japan and the GF2 just isn’t quite “it” for that market. The G3 is the small but better “serious” body and the GH2 for those interested in video.
I mostly dislike how they are hopscotching–usually the best is offered, then trickles down. But the volume will be G3 and GF3 I expect.
You are all a bunch of unrealistic, non-commercial minded whingers.
You all said you want a camera with an EVF, lots of control, that you can hold well, with IBIS, no touch screen etc etc. So this camera is OBVIOUSLY not for you and you would NEVER buy it. All you people whinging never had any intention of buying it, because every day you go ON and ON about EVF and lots of controls.
So if you were never realistically going to buy this “girly” camera who cares what sensor it has in it?
Luckily Panasonic is not managed by the people who comment here or else they would be bankrupt. They make cameras for a profit for their shareholders – not for you, people who comment on 43 rumors (you make up approximately .001% of their customers).
If panasonic want to make a small camera, with lots of “cool” features that will appeal to a LOT of people, good for them.
If you don’t want to buy this camera. Don’t buy it. Just stop whinging.
The whining will stop when they release a camera that enthusiasts have been asking for since the introduction of the format, they get close in one model but blow it in the following version.
(this is a reply to funky)
amen, brotha. but people who comment religiously on blogs are the fringe, anyway. not representative of the target demographic (esp for this type of camera), so what they say is inconsequential.
Whining will never stop. Period. Such is the nature of internet.
haha!
+1 ;
Really? If they would make the perfect cam body everybody like the whining would just shift to lenses, accessories, prices, availability.
If not, this site will die with everybody taking pictures and being happy 😉
so….you are whining about whiners….
Well, look at the X100. That one is doing alright, isn’t it?
It is just normal that we speculate about an upcoming camera. This is what this site is all about!
There are so many possibilities with the M43 system and we are all very supportive and fans of this system and we hope they will develop it even further.
I think it’s understandable that we are a little disappointed, because there isn’t much changed except for its size and style. There are a lot of interesting lenses coming up and the lenses seem to be at a more pro-level than the camera bodies themselves. I don’t think many basic consumers who will buy this GF3 will buy an expensive f/1.4 Leica lens with a fixed focal length.
These lenses are for enthusiasts. Those enthusiasts will need a camera with a little more capability.
Anyway, that’s just my view on this.
“bunch of unrealistic, non-commercial minded whingers”
“If u don’t like it, don’t buy it”
“Go whine elsewhere”
“Get a life”
I am very curious about reasons behind this kind of comments…
Firstly,
Please dont quote things I did not say. I did not say “go whine elsewhere” and I did not say ‘get a life’.
The reasons behind the comments, are that I also check this site every-day. And every day I read how people want a ‘semi-pro’ level camera. Everyone pretty much wants a very similar camera. Some kind of a cross between – the olympus IBIS, Fuji’s EVF, Sony’s sensor quality and the GH1’s controls, in a camera the size of the GF1.
This camera would cost a LOT, then everyone would complain about how much it is. Maybe it will come, but people need to be patient. The people who would spend the amount to buy this camera ($1000+) are not going to be the same people that make Panasonic or Olympus a very profitable company.
The profits will come from volume, selling lots of cameras at a reasonable margin.
The GF3 camera is obviously targeted at a volume audience, being very small (to attract upgraders from the Canon G12, s95 etc), its cute looking to attract most likely females to M43, and will have a touch screen, to retain the japanese market – this is where m43 cameras are selling.
So its most likely not many people on here were realistically going to actually purchase the GF3, so why are people so “dissapointed” about a camera they were not going to purchase anyway?
They should be supportive that Panasonic obviously have done extensive market research (that does NOT mean reading these forums) and have a very good understanding of where their profits are going to come from. That is from volume – selling lots of cameras at $500-$600. Not from selling a few high feature, high priced cameras.
The fact is, if a m43 camera costs $1000 plus, and that’s what it will cost for the camera that everyone wants, then it will be competing against cameras which can produce much better quality images and have cheaper lenses – DSLRs.
A lot of you guys remind me of the simpsons episode where Homer was asked to design a car. It had every feature that HE WANTED (including a bubble dome roof). but it was not what the general market wanted.
Same goes with cameras. What you guys want is simply not what is driving the sales. The sony NEX vs Olympus EP2 is perfect evidence of this. Sony nex is simple, tiny, looks ‘cool’ and is selling like crazy. EP2 was expensive, had the option for an EVF but didn’t sell very well.
Sorry about mixing similar type of comments I’v read recent times here.
They worth the same for me.
I still don’t understand why you prefer pana’s profits to photographer needs.
In other words : forget about the bright zoom, the bright wide, the GH3 and all the goodies. If there are no “popular models” milking the profits, all the goodies won’t happen.
Funky is correct. We should not complain about the GF3. There are plenty of alternatives anyways.
yes.. totally agree. The high end goodies will not come if Panasonic doesnt have a viable business. The low end volume play supports R&D etc for the bright zooms, the pancake primes, the panleica lenses and all the good stuff like the GHx and Gx, GF Pro etc.
“The GF3 camera is obviously targeted at a volume audience, being very small (to attract upgraders from the Canon G12, s95 etc)”
Yeah, no. That one loses you some credibility mate.
Yeah, no? based on what? Because you say so?
(and Milos Janata and MJr you’re not the same person by any chance?)
Based on ‘us’ whinging about ‘controls’ you’ve been referring to all this time, and you disregarding everything about the G12 and S95 having those controls thus clearly being aimed at a certain audience that the GF3 is certainly not. And the fact that you didn’t figure that out even after me pointing at it.
And no i don’t know/am Milos.
I didn’t say people were whinging about wanting controls. I said people were whinging about this particular camera, which obviously is not targeted at the people who generally read this forum. Its small, has no dials, no EVF, lower spec sensor. Its not for you, accept it.
The GF3 will have controls, they will be integrated into the touch screen. Not everyone wants or needs a wheel to control a setting. Why assume someone who is considering replacing one of the top point and shoot cameras (the Canon G12, s95, panasonics etc) would not consider a camera which is only a little bigger, and has the same controls built into a “cool” touch screen?
It will give them much better images in a package not much bigger, while retaining the controls.
I think you’re being myopic when you think the only way to control exposure, apeture, iso etc is through a physical wheel. Everyone with a smart-phone is experienced with and enjoys touch screen technology, not everyone wants physical controls.
Well if it’s whinging to you, why are you even whinging back. Obviously it is not so to us. We’re all just here out of curiosity, and hoping to find something we like in the future. So why are you here, because we’re obviously not allowed to have any ideas or wishes, so what is the point in talking to us. This is a rumors site, ideas, wishes and thus expectations is what we talk about on a rumors site. Accept it.
The point is you talk like you think to understand everything better than anyone else here, and therefore we should change on your behalf. But clearly you can only understand your own point of view, being blinded by ignorance. Even pointing out one of your errors only results in excuses adjusted to your needs.
Jeez, can I buy you ladies some hankies. 😉
The Olympus’ IBIS, Fuji’s EVF, Sony’s sensor quality, Panasonic L1’s internal flash, and Epson R-D1′s controls, in a camera the size of the EP1 — that would be a dream camera for me. 🙂
Add to that the hi-res Sony NEX LCD and Panasonic pivot system for it.
I haven’t seen an X100 or it’s hybrid EVF, which I don’t think would work on an interchangeable lens camera. So, I’ll vote for the GH2 EVF, but make it pivot like the VF-2.
What about all those Oly “art” filters! Those are absolutely necessary! 😉
+1000. Am not bothered by GF3. This plays to the masses. Where the volume $$ is. What enthusiasts like those in this site should do is look towards the GF pro.
Too much coffee ?
The sensor IS important – When you consider that a smaller, “large sensor” compact with fast lens – like an Oly XZ1 or Pany LX5 – does generally better than these m43 with packaged lenses, why would someone choose this? A better sensor would help with the higher ISO’s required for this to compete. Of course it’s not always worse than the large sensor compacts – don’t get me wrong, but the audience you describe isn’t going to be wringing out the best of that 12MP sensor with slow lens now would they?
The general public would most likely look at the price and the fact that it can change lenses, and ask themselves (and the shop keep) what’s better? This or the canikon? Size alone is a difficult sell.
Same sensor, sigh. 🙁
but the good news is, that on monday we perhaps will be able to decide, if the panaleica 25 is worth the buy. hope to see full specs & pricing!
t.
Disappointing news on the face of it.. Still, I’m reserving judgement until I see the price. The existing 12MP sensor is a dramatic improvement from the cameras of its target market. The most important things are for its size and price to be within range of the most advanced compacts. If the GF3 can do that it can make a killing, I think.
If it uses the previous generation sensor I think lots of existing u43 users would be much less likely to pick up a GF3 as a second camera, but I guess that market is vanishingly small compared to P&S upgraders.
old sensor? noways that will happen…
why not ? the audience this camera is aimed at will hardly notice. Panny wanted to stay ahead with pocketable size and so they did, the cheapest and quickest way possible. As funky pointed out in a slightly more douchy manner, they’re just following the market.
I do not know of any P&S that has a fixed focal-length lens (the X100 is not a P&S camera) . P&S upgraders are used to zoom lenses. They will likely not buy cameras with prime lenses and most would in fact want zoom lenses. But the small size of the GF3 will not match well with the big size of the current zoom lens. Given the big size of the resulting GF3 with zoom lens, most P&shooters will likely still choose a small, compact and light P&S.
For the GF3 to make sense, it needs to be matched with a small and light pancake prime lens, i.e., 20mm f/1.7 or 14mm f/2.5. This type of shooters already have cameras with 12mp sensor. They want a better performing camera. Repackaging the same 12mp sensor in a smaller body will not make them buy the GF3.
Canon and Nikon havent made mirrorless becuase they dont need to as they are just allowing Oly and Pana to destroy themselves. Good tactics and why they together are still number 1 and always will be. Even Sony throwing the kitchen sink at them cant make a dent in there market.
I totally agree. CaNikon patiently wait and learn from their competitor’s free market research and trial-and-error product designs. They already have two years of monitoring and developing mirrorless products and will come up with great solutions once the market is ready for them to enter.
epic fail… another 0815 camera.
sony is making inventions… oly and pana only replace cameras with other cameras that have minor improvements.
“sony is making inventions”..YES…and discovered the way to make lens bigger and bigger and optical worst than everybody else! 😉
Big compared to m4/3, small compared to other APS-C sensor cameras. And yea not that great ‘quality’, but all the benefits of APS-C are still there. Also sharpness is much overrated. I even prefer soft corners of the pancake for example, for the way it can compliment the image with a stronger suggestive focal point. Nobody really cares about soft corners if it’s a good photo. But the DoF and clarity of APS-C still positively supports our perception.
“…nobody really cares about soft corners…”…YOU….don’t care…I CARE A LOT!!!
You left out the good part tho. If i’d say to you that raw meat is disgusting you’d quote me saying ‘meat is disgusting’ and suddenly i’m a vegetarian.
Lol…right…who’d want sharp photos…noooobody. Didn’t know the soft corner issues of the NEX kit lenses are a feature and not a shortcoming…
It’s a quirk.
Sharpness is much overrated?
I may be a fanboy myself, but I have a hard time seeing how anyone could make excuses for poor resolution or inconsistent performance across the frame – at least when talking about lens quality.
Whatever hypothetical advantage is offered by NEX’s sensor seems to be negated by the shortcomings of the lenses. In that case, what is the point, stick with adapted manual focus lenses only? Without the option of a viewfinder?
why should i buy such a camera when i can have a sony with APS-C sensor?
olympus and panasonic have not build something special on m43 in all the years. expensive underachiving stuff compared to real DSLR cameras.
sonys cameras are better and you see improvements with each new camera.
NEXT sony sensor will be 24mp if u crop it in m43 became 16mp with the same quality(..only less dof..)…so where is the point?????
…Sensor will be better.year by tear….lens size will be always the same…so….YES….Sony will win the megapixel race but not quality and portability race….That’s all my dear sony fans…;)
ps: im speaking about the NEX cameras…
…..”The fact is, if a m43 camera costs $1000 plus, and that’s what it will cost for the camera that everyone wants, then it will be competing against cameras which can produce much better quality images and have cheaper lenses – DSLRs.”….
damn right!!
but that does not start at 1000$.. i can have much better quality at 600$.
plus that i can have a much bigger system i buy into (nikon, canon).
m34 has only one benefit: SIZE.. and that isn´t really one when you take NEX into account.
i take an APS-C camera everytime over a m43.
well sony makes profit with its cameras.. unlike the crap company olympus. 😀
sony lenses are excellent, you troll……
idiot it´s called PHYSICS.. it´s an APS-C sensor the NEX sytem has.
that restricts the possible size of the lenses…
learn to quote negro….
THE DAY JOE MCNALLY USES M43 FOR HIS WORK AND SELLS HIS NIKONS I BUY M43.
enjoy your toys but don´t think a pro would use the inferior stuff for REAL work.
Consumers with this attitude are the reason Olympus is struggling – not it’s quality of products.
There are too many Vinces that think if they buy the same gear as Joe McNally, they will be able to shoot like Joe McNally.
Joe’s gear is best you can buy for the type of work he does. But if you are just out for a bike ride or walking around Disneyland with your kids, there is no need for that sort of stuff. Once people figure that out for themselves, there will be a lot less animosity towards m4/3.
My Honda Odyssey isn’t sexy or high performance, and Mario Andretti doesn’t use one for his job – but for it’s intended purpose, the Odyssey is an excellent, high-quality piece of equipment.
And my E-PL2 is sitting next to a Canon Rebel right now and it is obvious which one is the toy and an inferior product. The Olympus exudes quality and the fit and finish is light years ahead.
And despite the hypothetical advantages of an APS-C sensor the Olympus image quality kills the Canon in a comparison with the kit lenses and with our best aftermarket lenses (Canon 50mm 1.4 vs Panasonc 20mm 1.7)
You’re a miserable failure at being a forum troll.
There are recognized professionals working with Micro Four Thirds equipment, it doesn’t take long to find some:
http://irablock.wordpress.com/ (shoots for National Geographic)
http://www.picturestoryblog.com/2011/05/the-more-i-use-the-gf2-the-more-impressed-i-am.html (also shoots for National Geographic)
I’m pretty sure there are lots more.
Who the XXXX cares about your opinion and Joe McNally anyway, Vince?!
target demographics: moms and teenage girls….
Moms and teenage girls like shat cameras do they? How patronising.
Apperantly the G3 sensor is too close to comfort to the GH2 sensor,
so putting a GH2 sensor into a tiny GF3 wouldnt be right – but the bad news is that the NEX-3C sensor is much better then the GH2 sensor but the camera that’s supposed to compete with is GF3.
“..NEX-3C sensor is much better then the GH2 sensor…” sure!!!!!
Did u see the dpreview studio scene comparison?????…take a look…pls 😉
Gianluca, to mesure a sensor you check DXO not DPreview.
GH2 sensor is OPTIMIZED for benchmarks, it shows good iso but lacks color fidelity and DR, things that you dont see in studio comparisons
…yes I check the VERY TRUSTED DXO and I discovered that very bad Leica M9 is close to the 30th position….I really really love DXO….;)
Gianluca,
You have a good point there i wont argue 🙂
but still, i’d prefer a higher DR over megapixels
with the next sensor the real advantage of APSC size sensor will be the megapixel number not the DR or hight iso performance….if u crop the next sony 24mp sensor in m43 you’ll have a 16mp(…and for me 12mp are more than enough…) with same quality…and sensors will be better year after year but lens size will remain the same..so in conclusion m43 will be a better sistem than the others due to is better portability and lens quality/dimension.
moron… sensor is also about DOF.
get a clue….
They are making my decision (and others for sure) to go with the Fuji X100 easier and easier…..at least for me. Might as well give my money to a winner, rather than these losers. Fuji knows what we want, and will eventually give us a camera with interchangeable lenses.
Sony NEX has such huge elephant lenses. And guess what? They have 4 beautiful gigantic monstrosities on a such cute body. Frankenstein. I’m just glad that I have over 20 native m4/3 and 4/3 lenses to choose. With at least 3 bright primes in 2011 alone. A camera system is not just about the sensor.
Sony trolls. Wake up. You lose.
While it’s a more complete system, it’s VERY disappointing to hear they’re going to use a 2.5+ year old sensor. That was introduced back with the Olympus E-30 and Panasonic G1!
What worries me is that If Olympus is going to use a 12MP sensor It it really a new sensor or the same old one?
As mentioned by many posters.. this is for the mass market.. where the 2 year old 12mpx sensor is still leaps and bounds better than any P&S. What we should judge Panasonic is on the rumoured GF Pro in Aug/Sep. That would be the real successor to the GF1. So if panny needs to release a GF2 clone in a smaller package.. so be it… it will not bother me too much.. unless they mess up the GF Pro…
they should have just named it GL1 or something. I think it’s more of the branding being a GF-successor that is frustrating some people, especially GF1 owners because it looks nothing like the original.
No it’s not.
With the price it commands and interchangeable lenses, it will be compared against large sensor compacts and entry level DSLRs.
Against large sensor compacts, yes – the 2.5+ year old sensor has an edge, but the kit lens does not! compare to the LX5 and XZ1, which have zooms 2 stops faster than you 3.5-5.6 kit lens. Sure – in bright light, you’ll eek out performance. With long exposure, you’ll be able to surpass them, and with careful balancing ISO, exposure time and aperture, you’ll do OK – but when light starts to dim, the large sensor large aperture compacts will be ahead.
You also can’t possibly expect the target audience to not compare similarly priced DSLRs.
The sensor may be leaps and bounds beyond a P&S, but the sensor is NOT leaps and bounds above the Sony sensor.
I have no interest in the GF3, but some newbie moving up from P&S is probably doing it because of low-light limitations (that’s usually why people move up — that or AF speed). Well, all you have to do is compare ISO 1600 on that old sensor vs. ISO 1600 on the Sony NEX, and the Sony looks like a winner. Forget about everything else that people like us might know (lens selection, fast prime, etc.). They’ll think “I need higher — what’s it called now — “ISO”. Hmmmm… I’ll check one of these web sites and compare ISO 1600 on both cameras. Oh! That didn’t take much thinking. Sony for me!”
Teh GF3 really needs the G3’s sensor, and the GF3 won’t cannibalize the G3. They’re pretty different cameras.
You are like a owner of 7D complaining they are releasing 600D with worse sensor and saying it is disappointed. Funny 🙂
agreed. how many of the target buyers know anything about sensors?
i know a few people who bought a canon G12 thinking it has the same sensor as a DSLR 😀
Wow. Sad.
It doesn’t make sense for Panasonic to use the SAME 12MP sensor in the GH3, so maybe we can hope that they’ve updated and improved the 12MP sensor. That would make sense given all the sensor advances with the GH2’s 18MP multi-aspect sensor and the G3’s new sensor.
12MP is still a very usable size, so better all-around performance and IQ would be welcome by all.
Olympus might even use an updated 12MP sensor. It’s possible.
We’ll know Monday, for certain!
Also, with the G3 there have been marked improvements in the JPEG engine and nice interface enhancements like the picture-in-picture manual focus assist. So, all these improvements can only enhance it.
As so many have mentioned, this camera is targeting P&S or LX3/5 upgraders, sitting comfortably between the LX5 and G3. It’s NOT aimed at users like ourselves who debate technical aspects of equipment and imagery ad nauseum.
+1
Sensor and electronics improvements possible (Low noise amplifiers like G3 sensor, better micro lenses, improved ADC) and of course the improved JPEG engine will give improved results.
And JPEG is what customers want from this cam.
Couldn’t agree more with Agrivar. I went to a photo store today to pick up a tripod head I ordered and played around with the NEX models they had for presentation. One of them had a monstrous lens attached that would even look oversized on my E-5.
Honestly, I have no idea who desires those cameras.
Another vendor I often go to in Hamburg told me that he is hardly able to sell any NEX cameras anymore, because the system lacks lenses. He sells a lot of PEN and G2s though he told me.
Ah….can you a say… a…Japanese Junk….????
Yes:] Even people on digitalRev facebook page laugh at it.
Too bad about the sensor! And it will cost a fortune…
But hey, they gotta keep
us wanting for the next model, even when this is not even outŽ!
Thats the name of the game… No real reason not to implement the new tech. Beta testers baying for beta products, thats what we all are to them.
the way i see it, Pany offers us today both the G3 and GF3. the G3 seems a worthy upgrade from those who own old m4/3 bodies (not GH1/GH2 owners). the GF3 is for the newbies to m4/3 or want a ‘simpler’ camera.
if you dont fit in either category, just wait for the semipro Pany, Oly or just get the Sony or Samsung or stay in DSLR.
that’s it. no need to be angry at anyone, it’s YOUR choice. you live your life the way you want it 😀
Realise that this GF3 is for the masses. At least Panny has a viable lumix compact business and low end m4/3 business that seems to be thriving so that there is funding for their higher end business. Furthermore, just like Sony, Panasonic is a consumer electronics Giant. They have funds to throw at R&D. Hence you see faster/better products in m4/3 from Panny
Compare that to olympus who have a disasterous compact / low end m4/3 line that is not very successful and dead 4/3 line, so where is oly getting the internal funding back from the sales of their cameras to fund projects like all the goodies that all want?
Admin, you should stop all these trolls, they are ruining your site.
What’s up with all these people complaining about an entry level camera in the m43 line. Seriously, we all know what’s the shortcoming of whatever system we love, everything has been done do that, the size of the sensor, the size of the lens, ergonomics, range of lenses, controls. It’s all know facts already and there is no point start another argument here when it’s been talked over over and over again here and at dpreview forum.
Can we at least make this forum tidy? Don’t let the trolls ruin it, please.
+10!
be aware that anyone coming to this site to find out about whether they want to buy into m43’s just see a bunch of people talking about how dissapointing all these cameras are. people trust forums, they wont buy into the system and probably will buy canikon.
Are you going to help him ijack? This site’s admin is very busy and clearly doesn’t have the time to be a forum policeman. Besides, once you start deleting posts and sending out warnings and maybe even banning certain individuals, the end result might be a little less interesting to see. A lot of the closely moderated forums are starving for participants because they look a little too cliquish to an outsider. The getdpi forums are a good example of that.
It’s better I think to post your own thoughts here and try to ignore the posts that seem inappropriate if possible. These threads don’t last too long and there’s always another rumor and subsequent thread attached to it to leave the last one behind before very long. It’s what helps to make this site so interesting to always be moving on to a new topic every day or two IMO.
You’re right. Trolls bad. Police State worse.
Ignoring idiotic remarks is easy, most of the time.
Waiting for comment approval is a pain and squelches good, open discussions. With Admin running this site part time, it would be next to impossible for it to work without committed helpers. he’s doing an amazing job as it is, given his time constraints
I couldn’t agree more.
Yes admin, please consider some sort of comment approval system or perhaps even go as far as disabling comments for a few days till the trolls have left. It’s not as if anything of value would be lost.
The constant bickering makes this site an unpleasant place to hang out.
+1! Does it not look like the forums have gone downhill the last month? 43rumors is slowly getting ruined by the negativity in the comments. Admin, just force member logins. That will be a big start. Is the negativity worth the page hits? It would be a shame to see 43rumors go down like this.
it’s just the canon/nikon/sony fanboys feeling insecure and on the side lines 😀
Well, I think it was a very poor move on Panasonics part, to use the old sensor, unless it’s going to sell for 400.00$ bucks, from the get go. I’m sure Panasonic can justify it somehow, but from watching them from afar, for the last six or seven years, I think it’s more of the one step forward and three steps back. What an awsome company Panasonic could be, if they didn’t always seem to have to screw things up for themselves, by either pricing too high or coming out with great ideas, then implementing them with old technology. This is sort of like two hateful brothers fighting over something. If one gets a good idea, the other trys to make it look bad, so the first one doesn’t look too good. If Panasonic could just get rid of the moronic brothers and put someone with simple common sense in that position, they would be the most successful camera maker on the planet. Of coarse this is just my humble opinion. 🙂
i do hope it will be $399 or less.. i’ll buy one as a spare..
Look, it’s a little itty bitty camera aimed at beginners. It’s just crazy trying to extrapolate the future history of m43 from one product.
So it’s a 12mp sensor – until it gets a proper test no one knows if it’s new and improved or exactly the same. For that market, it doesn’t really matter much. It will matter that it’s a small camera with smaller lenses than the Sony.
It would be a shame if Panasonic just dropped the high-performance photographer-centric (GF1 Style) compact thing altogether. Then again the G3 is a really nice effort… and the Olympus Pen fills in that segment.
So I wonder if this thing mounted with a 14 f/2.5 would be comparable in size to a XZ-1? I just dropped my S90, and if the GF3 with the 14 (or my beloved 20mm) can almost fit in my jean’s pocket it might replace the S90.
Although I’d go for the mini PEN gladly if it’s as small, because these days I’m simply not shooting in RAW anymore. I simply don’t have the time to post process my pictures anymore, and even find myself using the art filters.
FISH you are a moron or a liar…..
Lets not get personal and name calling.. we can always disagree politely..: )
Haha, I know I’m not the first person who you have called a moron (in this thread alone), but tell me, what am I lying about?
I can only guess that you disagree that the my E-PL2 is better built, and produces better photos than my sister’s Digital Rebel (comparing kit lenses and our best aftermarket lenses). You are of course welcome to believe whatever you choose -but it is obvious to me that you have not used these cameras yourself. I would bet money on the fact that your opinion is based on an online camera comparison tool or specsheet.
I never had a chance to compare the image quality of the Rebel with my older E-510, but the build quality of the older 4/3 Olympus body and lenses also KILLED the Canon’s. That’s not something that you would be able to tell from an amazon picture of the camera – but it is undeniable to anyone who has actually handled both. People like kicking Olympus because they are they are the little guy, but the poster whom I was responding to was using words like “toy” and “inferior product” – which could not be further from the truth.
Sure, people dont like this new Panasonic model because it is isn’t on the bleeding edge of technology, or because they were expecting more. I won’t be buying one myself either. But for someone who is in the market for excellent image quality in a tiny package – this is probably an awesome little camera. And why should people take offence at there being different tiers of models for different uses. isn’t that the way it’s supposed to be?
– Chad
i normaly don´t take part in comments or discussions.
but you people are a bunch of low-lifes.. or better say you must have no lifes at all.
go out and shot pictures.. if your able to move you lazy fat asses from the chairs. pathetic clowns….
no.. i have a panasonic and i put them in my a$$hole at night.
because my brother is at the chospital (they have to remove a olympus from his a$$) and he can´t fuk my little gay a$$.
How can a comments section on a website for adults who all enjoy the same hobby, turn into such trash and name calling that this site has?? I would expect to see comments like that on a video game forum or myspace page instead.
No matter what you age or maturity level is, you have to realize that using someone else’s screen name in order to make fun of them with profanity and homosexual references – automatically makes you wrong. You see that right?
– Chad
Hm, I would buy GF1 over this any day.. Dead end development.
It’s actually DEVOLUTION! 🙂
When you give a camera a designation (GF)…aren’t successive models supposed to improve? I bought a Canon 5D Mark II….I don’t believe that the 5D Mark III will be like a Rebel. It will be a major step up..
GF1 is one hell of a bargain. Especially with the hack.
I think for price, basic layout and features …the GF1 is the best Panasonic MFT camera to this date in time.
If, as past rumors have suggested, Panasonic is going to manufacture a 12MP sensor for Olympus, why would they keep their old 12MP sensor in production? Especially when they have two other sensors to produce. Seems like the smart thing, economically, would be to use the new Olympus-spec’d 12MP in the GF3 and roll over other production resources to the G3 & GH2 sensors.
BTW, heard from someone who knows folks at Panasonic. He said that the G, GH and GF names were derived from the market segmentation :
G = Standard,
GH = Creative HD Hybrid, (H in the GH = Hybrid)
GF = Stylish Flat Design respectively (F in the GF = Flat design)
interesting.. anyone can validate this?
photokina 2010 part II – the manufacturers strike back
Maybe GF3 is a sunshine camera, so can better use full auto in highlight and shadow on same time, for the need Panasonic a new sensor by good D&R like GH1, but not aspect size.
Good luck to Panasonic on this one, and too bad, seemed like a great concept to slip the new low-noise 16 MP sensor from the G3 into this smallest of mFT’s.
For P&S upgraders I predict it will be a non-starter, they’ll simply go for the NEX-C3 with it’s 16MP APS-C sensor and kit prime for $599, or zoom for $649. And why not? They’ll just look at their P&S’s with 14 MP sensors and not want to pay more for what they’ll perceive as less.
Panasonic, I’m afraid you made this into an instant also ran by under-spec’ing it.
Excellent. Two recent rumors tick off both Panasonic and Olympus users. Parity prevails. 🙂
Yeah, well phrased remark. The trouble is that Olympus users secretly know that in the end, Panasonic will get it right and deliver a model they can agree with mostly while everybody knows that Olympus will just re-release the same old model over and over and over again.
Some of you Sony Nex fanboys are talking like the NEX C3 has lots of new features…when umm it dont? its just smaller (unless pretty picture modes is a upgrade these days)…same old shite…and the older models get a firmware update to add these features so whats the point in buying a C3 when you have a NEX 3/5
This GF3 is just a knee jerk reaction to the C3. I just hope one day these companies see sense that manual controls for video is important as well as the photo side.
I dont think there will be a real GF1 replacement for some time.
While I’m not a Sony fanboy I wonder if Panasonic will finally deliver nice features like sweep panorama and auto HDR. If not…consumers will choose NEX for gimmicks, sexy styling and megapixels. Well, just for fun I just bough a used NEX 5, and these gimmicks are really nice and missing on Pana and Oly bodies. And with adapted MF lenses I even get sharp pictures. The kit lens is crap, indeed.
So, what are the differences to the GF2 other than the reduced size?
Can we sum it all up already?
The thing that will hurt many people the most is the lack of a hot shoe and the ability to attach the EVF. That makes it pretty clear that the GF3 is aimed at P&S users, not even at LX3 or ZF1 users, but those content with models without a hot shoe.
Yes…..but Panasonic should call it the PS1, (as in “point & shoot”).
Well lets see…they wont introduce new art filters like olympus, thats WAY to simple for them,
i’m betting that the I.R(Intelligent Resolution) would be getting a PHD and more intelligent, so as the intelligent zoom,
they will probably upgrade the i.A mode to i.i.A (intelligent intelligent Auto) when you will be just waving your camera around and it will decide when to fire the shutter.
isn´t olympus going broke soon?
i mean -30% in sales for olympus.
while sony sells NEX like mad.
The is DSRL market so is be more dobbel on 5 year. 😉
In my experience I see far, far more people in Europe and on flickr via stats with micro four thirds cameras so maybe Sony are over stating their position
only 1% of the pros are using µ43 toys.
this FISH stinks from the head an all the lies.
Hey Brum, changing your nickname from “LOL” to “Brum” doesn’t increase the credibility of your argument anymore than telling them they stink or are morons.
What is it that you dissgree with? Have you ever handled any m4/3 gear to call it toys?
And your statement of only 1% of pros usng Olympus – exactly what I have been saying !!! Olympus has been very clear that they are not building these cameras for pros. I am not a pro photographer. You are not a pro photographer. 99% of the people out there are not pro phtographers. If someone was a pro, they would be using FF or medium format. They certainly wouldn’t be talkig about NEX either. But for the vast majority of photographers, I think m4/3 is the only system right now that truely gives the best of both worlds.
Unfortuntely people have bought in to the advertizing message that they need the same equipment as the professionals. I can understand that, it is always nice to have the”best” of something (but that comes with compromises as well). But the problem is, it goes even further than that – many people believe that just because it is made by the same company that makes professional equipment, it will be better.
Fish, don’t take the bait! 😉
People think they “need” a full-blown “pro” DSLR in the same way that people fell for the SUV fad. “Well, I MIGHT need 4-wheel drive…” Same shit, different scam. Money was spent, massive amounts made. Few served.
I’m no pro photographer, but I use photography as part of my business. Does that make me semi, demi or proto-pro? I just can’t decide. Labels can be difficult to assign when you find them superfluous.
I demand a certain level of visual and mechanical quality, but refuse to carry big and heavy DSLR gear. If I made a living at it, liked pushing a hand truck, owned a car, or could afford a Sherpa, who knows. 😉
Anyway, camera companies (as do MANY other industries) often use their top of the line gear to advertise, hoping to get the rabble to aspire to using the best, knowing full well they’ll “settle” for something more on their level. Either way, a SALE is made!
The people with deep pockets or plenty of plastic aren’t constrained by such restrictions. That’s why you see fat bastards toting token blondes in Lamborghinis while driving within 55mph speed limits. Or carrying big-ass DSLRs with super-long lenses shooting pictures of the family cat, chimping wildly. 😉
Your last line busted me up. Thanks for that : )
the enlightened 1% 😀
Deception ! 🙁
GF4 with a new case color, GF5 with a new flash, GF6 with 2 new buttons… It’s ridiculous.
Ridiculous? It’s called consumer level.
The GF3 is an adjustment. The GF2, if we can believe the rumors, has not sold well. The current trend is toward ever-smaller bodies, so we have the GF3.. and NEX-series and EPLs. And why NOT? From the few images I’ve seen, the GF3 looks cute, with really nice lines and generally very sexy.The pearly finish is kinda cool! It could be a great step up for some, a good totable camera with reasonable IQ for for others who are unwilling to settle for P&S cameras.
Kawaii sells more than bokeh! 😉
If it handles well, has good IQ and does manual focus reasonably well, I could see the GF3 as a legitimate home for my Panasonic 20mm and (soon to acquire) Voightländer Nokton 35mm f1.4 lenses.
The GF3 could go either way at this point, but I reserve judgement until I see the actual specs, get a chance to physically handle, take some test shots and look at them.
Some of the reactions on here are quite emotional; I am not sure why. The best way to send a message to a manufacturer about their product is not to buy it if it does not suit your requirements. This little camera does not suit my requirements so I am not interested in it; therefore I will not spend my cash on this item. Simple..
I see advantages in this camera and I see a market for it. The bonus of Panasonic releasing a base model such as this is that it will differentiate the different model categories by features. Is the old sensor enough for what this camera would be used for? Yes it is.
Is it enough for what the main complainants on this site are referring too? No, then wait and see what is offered in the next 6 months. For me personally, i will not purchase any further m43 gear until I see a definitive move ahead to lose the gap on some of the features lacking in M43 compared with DSLR. If I see the improvement in the technology, then I will purchase more M43 dedicated glass and wait for the model that I see as worth upgrading too.
On a related subject; I live in a tourist area of Asia and see hundreds of tourists daily walking the streets with different cameras, mainly DSLRs. I sometimes wonder how many of these DSLR owners are aware of the features of the camera they carry and what their camera is capable of. I believe the percentage of these users that are fully aware of the functionality and capabilities of their cameras would be very low indeed.
Most carry the one standard kit lens and snap photos of highly lit streets at night with pop up flashes running snapping long distance photos. Rarely do I see flash off and anybody making an effort to adjust the settings for an ISO or S / A shot. I can recall on less than 5 occasions have I seen anybody with a prime lens attached. No doubt, in 95% of cases or higher the photos snapped are rarely printed and only emailed or flickered etc.
Each to their own, but marketing plays a huge part in what people purchase. The big camera syndrome still exists to compensate for an individual’s inadequacy elsewhere. I have a friend who cannot afford any style of interchangeable lens camera. This does not stop him from participating in his hobby. He carries a 3 old bridge camera and takes excellently composed photos. He makes the most from what he has. I would guess that his photos are of a much higher quality composition than the majority of DSLR carrying tourists I see every day. Maybe there is a lesson in this.
I live in Taiwan and from what I have seen here, the mirrorless cameras have begun to overtake the P&S, especially with the ladies, with the GF series selling particularly well.
I feel like an alcholic…Just one drink away from happiness. Panasonic has all of the technology in-house, that they need to make the perfect GF camera, but they are just NOT doing it. The user community seems to be screaming in their ears, but they come out with this.
I am not sure why Panasonic has so little confidence that it is trying to go after the Sony NEX market. A little camera with a giant lens is a ridiculous concept. The GF2 is a flop and the GF3 may be as well. For example, look at the response that the Fuji X100 has received!!!
Based on the responses I have read, and my own preferences, Panasonic should come out with the following GF pro camera as soon as possible:
– GF Pro Camera with the GH2 sensor (don’t cheap out on us, we will pay the price for the higher dynamic range. Sure, this camera may kill GH2 sales, but you are still Panasonic. This is better than Sony, Fuji, and Olympus killing your sales. The GH2 is a ridiculous camera that looks like an SLR with the hump, but it is mirrorless. People buy it only for the video and picture quality.)
– Intuitive manual controls
– The size does not need to be as small as the GF3. The GF1 was about the right size compared to the lenses.
– There should be a built in EVF that is the highest possible resolution. If that is not possible, a high quality external EVF is a bearable solution.
– External flash shoe
– Fast auto focus
I hear something like a GF pro is on its way, but I am afraid of the Frankenstein it will become. Please wake up Panasonic, I would love for you to put aside your internal product positioning issues, and come out with the perfect professional small sized camera.
I am not upset about this GF3. The camera is not for me, but at least Panasonic is trying to appeal to different types of photographers with the GF3, GF2, GH2, and G3. I wish Oly would do the same.
I prefer Oly camera build quality and IBIS, but Oly has so far only produced one form factor for the Pens.
I only want a DSLR-form mirrorless from Olympus!
What is there to understand if not that Panny is 10 times as big as Oly camera division? Or perhaps even more?
In comparison they have a small business although they invest 3% in R&D, which is high.
Is it so difficult to understand that it is already overstretched by the transition to mirrorless?
Admin.. to sidetrack a little.. any rumours if Panny or Oly will be adding a similar feature to “peaking” in the NEX? Would be a great MF aid !!
How about putting the highly regarded GF1 back in production, instead of these toys ?
What by G3 the is not very large size GF1, and there is the EVO to.
What by G3, the is not very large size v.s GF1, and there is the EVO to also.
In Asia, m4/3 is doing well. a lot carrying E-PL1/2 and GF1/2 and NEXes also.
Well after being accused of trolling I feel the need to explain my view.
I am sorry that GF3 wont get the new sensor, but only because it would make it such a great buy for everybody who will get one. But that would mean less money for Pany.
I appreciate that this new model is new entry class, but don’t quite understand the reason of not calling it by another name.
I also wish they would introduce a 3 way line split in their compact m43 bodies.
Highend with EVF, a GF2 type of camera and entry with fixed small zoom lens. Sort of like an LX m43 model! 🙂
I have a GF2. Downsized from a Nikon D5000 because of SLR weight. If Panasonic don’t produce a better GF camera body with high ISO CCD then I will go to Olympus if they have something better. If not then I will go back to a conventional SLR because it looks to me like this whole micro 4/3s system has been a total waste of space and my money, and it is looking like the 4/3’s system is not going to mature into a proper system because the system isn’t viable ie they don’t know how to improve the CCD’s!!!
Looks like I may have been a little hasty in my judgement of Panasonic and their micro 4/3s system – rumour has it they may bring out a more serious GF body later this year.
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