You may remember that picture of the first Olympus PEN mockup. It was shown seven years ago at Photokina 2008. And on June 16 2009 Olympus announced the first real digital PEN camera, the [shoplink 55942 ebay]E-P1[/shoplink].
After an initial success the PEN line has been somewhat overshadowed by the OMD cameras. I have been told by my trusted sources that PEN sales are fallen way behind their sales goals. So you wonder what’s coming next? This is what I got from two trusted sources:
They said Olympus is going to reinvent the PEN line and add more features and tech innovations to them!
I hope to get some more concrete news about it soon. All I know is that the very new PEN line is coming in 2016.
—
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159 Responses
Integrated EVF! Please.
for that, please purchase OMD )
The digital PEN series never lived up to its name, because it lacked an integrated finder, whereas all analog Pen models (ok, obviously) used to have one. And yes, a live-view monitor has its merits, but no, it cannot fully replace a viewfinder…
So while I clearly see the reasons for making super-compact μ43 cameras without an integrated finder under whatever name they want, I still think a PEN should always have one.
If Olympus would consider the Panasonic GX7 and GX8 as prototypes for their revamped PEN line, I’d call that a good idea. Perhaps one of them with Four Thirds PDAF support?
I use an E-M1, but would love an RF styled small camera for travel and social use. I had an E-PL1 with the clip on EVF, but that was a bit clumsy.
Something between the Panny GX7 and GM5 would be ideal. Even better if they could squeeze in a little flash for fill as well!
Heck with EVF. Smartphones are the most popular cameras and people use them without EVF just fine.
E-P5 was OK, it just needs a bigger grip (interchangeable, like E-P3).
If you had old eyes you might “see” an EVF differently.
The younger generation have no understanding of what getting old means until it’s too late as they get old themselves. 😉 Typically from 45 onwards he might realise close vision ain’t what it used to be! 🙂
Wow, its really would be nice. EPL8 with thiny amoled screen over 9 million pixels, bigger batt, usb 3.0 support, and.. 25mm 1.8 panckake instead of 14-42 huhh
Sorry but you can’t sell cameras for few geeks and nerds with specs sheet foot long.
The camera needs to be functional one.
– Drop the rear display, no need as EVF replaces it
– No USB support as SD card reader is everywhere. Instead commence to WiFi so it actually works with laptops and AP easily.
– Battery ain’t the problem. They last already enough, just improve the charge amount accuracy with percentage and time instead a three level battery icon!
– 14-42 Ez is awesome lens, no need to have a prime one!
I enjoy an EVF as much as the next guy, but the rear touch-screen is something I would never go without.
Agreed. I don’t understand why other mirrorless camera makers aren’t packing a touchscreen. It adds a whole heck of a lot of flexibility in use and, for those that like the camera but not the touchscreen, they can just turn the touch function off.
and touch focus is a real joy to use.
Lets hope oly doesn’t listen to you 🙂 No screen? A horrible idea, an no usb? Why? It serves next to no purpose to remove it, expect making the camera worse.
Olympus needs to expand its market. Somehow.
Problem is, these little cute cameras have been around for several years, and most recently at highly slashed prices. They just haven’t been selling.
So let’s just announce to our bosses the reason they have not been selling is just that we’re not making enough of them.
I love The Pen serie small camera, large sensor as a 4/3 should be.
SIze-wise i liked my old pen better than my EM5 with the huge bump, but now i have the wonderful GM1 for my needs when i need something small, so a new pen is maybe a bit late to the party for me.
A response to Panasonic GM and GX series maybe? A bit late, but why not. Could be interesting to see what they come up with. I think I would prefer a rangefinder like design, aka GX7.
FT5! But in what year? 😉
Olympus has a contest where the grand prize winner gets a new Pen and cash. Winners will be announced a week or so before CP+, which is February 2016. So my guess is announcement in Febuary 2016.
next year olympus 80 year, Mr haruo Ogawa president of image division , is a big fan of the Pen, oh yes something special is coming
please Olympus…an Olympus “GM5” version, with stabilized sensor 😉
Exactly, I have the GM1 and didn’t go for the GM5 due to it’s sh!tty VF.
A GM5 with a real good VF en 5axis stabilization would be a certain buy for me.
I remember pretty good when I fist saw this picture. This was, what I was waiting for since I switched to digital in 2004: A small high quality compact camera which I could use in addition to the big DSLR.
I didn’t bought the E-P1 because there was no EVF but then the Panasonic GF1 came and this package was convincing. It turned out that it was so good for my purpose, that I switched completely to MFT. I still like the clean design of the Olympus in the picture but in real life, I’m better off with a few more buttons and dials.
It’s got to have an EVF, Just got to!
It’s not top of my list
EVF isn’t 100% required, as long the display would be tilting one. So it can be tilted away from the sunlight and actually see something. AP2 port with 100€ EVF would be good replacement too.
But EVF in center is a must, not to corner as it is one of the most terrible designs that was compromise for film cameras and required to do fancy lens hood designs (inverted) so it would not block the range finder. The corner makes it more difficult to use and handle, gets easily impacts and is just in corner because rear display. So remove the display from rear and place EVF to back at center like in compact 35mm film cameras has it.
http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00Y/00YT5M-342881684.jpg
It’s slightly on the left, so you can lay the camera against the nose and be more stable when shooting.
That’s my Nikon35ti with its left ovf.
that Nikon 35Ti was my last film camera. I do miss the form and compactness but it was too simplistic for my shooting style today. The viewfinder being to the left works for most people that use the right eye to focus/compose and I hear you about that nose. Not too happy with the E-M5 viewfinder but I love the VF4 on my Pen. That it tilts upwards for low-to-the-ground shots is an incredible advantage over a conventional VF. I am happier with the Pen than with OMD.
Please Olympus, make high end RF styled camara (with EVF on the corner), smaller than GX-8 but with M1 features + seperate big back AF-On buton, and will buy it.
Maybe Olympus should try LESS features. Make it as simple as the original PEN.
Smartphones have killed the market for simple standalone point and shoot cameras, even if they do have better image quality. Not only is the demand for cameras like that falling price is such a big factor when people buy one the profit margin must be low too.
Most people I know now that want a small camera with interchangeable lenses want more than a simple camera with minimal features. That pretty much describes the Nikon J series and sales of those have not been brisk.
Now that Panasonic has shown us how small a m43 camera can be with the GM1 and GM5 the PEN cameras look needlessly large in comparison. Olympus should redesign the PEN series to be the best small cameras they can possibly make. M43 has always been about offering a good ratio of photographic capability per unit of size and weight. Even if they do not make as many compromises as Panasonic did to make the GM series small they could to a better job of cramming more capability into a small body.
That is classy. Talk about creating FUD when you got nothing. I hope get really do it, but for the moment PEN is dead.
I’d love to see the market research and financial analysis that brought this strategy about. If they are going to start beefing up the PEN line with technology and features, then what else would differentiate the PEN and OM-D lines? A bump at the center and an EVF? I don’t mean to sound facetious, but that is precisely what separates the E-M5 MkI and the E-P5. Same sensor, about the same size minus the bump, and very similar feature set. I only bought the E-P5 because the bump on the E-M5 made it harder to throw in pocket to take baby pictures on the go with; otherwise there was literally no difference in the two. Maybe this is theorizing too deeply given very, very scant information, but it sounds as if the teams working on the PEN and OM-D lines, respectively, are not working in a coordinated manner, or they don’t have a coordinating element higher up in the organization to make sure that the marketing strategy makes sense. It wouldn’t be a stretch for a Japanese company to have such things going on as a result of hyper-developed intra-organizational silos. But again, this is very little information, and not even confirmed as true, so who knows what’s going on. Just the first thoughts that came to mind.
so why would it be a problem if a PEN with top features and integrated viewfinder is not very differentiated from an OMD? choose either of those, and it’s a win for Olympus.
actually, I very much like the idea of putting all features in all models, so the choice just becomes one of form factor.
Choose the brand. choose form factor. Done – knowing that you’ll have all features that are available today.
want everything and the kitchen sink? get em1 mkII (or em5 mkII if you want it today)
want everything but more compact? get EP6 with integrated viewfinder.
want something more modular? PEN with optional evf, optional grip(s) – would be nice if you could go from an EPM to a full fledged OMD with modules.
want the smallest? EPM without EVF – and yes, it should be downsized towards GM size.
I feel that, In order to get repeat business from customers, they have been making too many incremental and inconsistent changes in the lineup, trying to make you buy a new camera that’s almost exactly like the one you have, but with a few features more that you’d like, and a few that you’ll have to miss. Its an outdated approach, and I don’t think it works that well sales wise either.
I mean, if one delves into the specs in detail, one can’t help but hesitating over which model to get, as none is the best, and each comes with some compromise (not warranted by form factor). If doesn’t feel like they try to offer you the best possible camera – it feels like one that’s incomplete and flawed from the very start.
And the more you hesitate, the more chance that they’ll lose the sale.
IMO, by putting all features in each model, and offering modularity, you take away a good deal of that hesitation.
for me, this could totally work, and I’m sure you could market this very well – and people will still get several bodies, even if though features are the same. Especially if the interface is very consistent throughout the line – so the second body works exactly the same as the first body.
Yes .
Redesign the whole Pen line is right direction to go .
Don’t forget New Sensor as well otherwise the whole process would be pointless again .
Agreed. IMO, it would need a new M43 sensor with noticeable IQ improvements over the stagnant 16mp sensors that haven’t really changed since EM5. I also think an EVF is necessary. Even the tiny GM series from Panasonic has an EVF now.
But keep the 16Mpix, actually lower it back to 12Mpix and it would be awesome!
I don’t want them to reduce megapixels, I want them to improve what we get out of our megapixels. I know you’ll get better DR and less noise with fewer megapixels, but it’s the easy road. It’s not progress.
Also, it’s not gonna happen because MP-count is one of the main selling points. I agree it’s not really really important, but the ability to sell cameras is. 16MP is the bare minimum now. Panasonic managed to maintain image quality while upping to 20MP. There’s a very very small improvement in IQ but a very welcome increase in resolution. I think if they stay at 20MP for some years and work at improving the quality of those 20MP, progress will be faster.
And why you think he meant that lower mpix = keep current tech? Of course naturally to me it would mean new tech + lower mpix! More to us!
You’re not making any sense man. More what to us? and who is us? And the word “tech” isn’t even in his sentence.
And you are exchanging a minor resolution bump to much more limited usable aperture by a stop! So you can’t use more than max f/5.6 now with GX instead f/11 as current 16mpix. Happy? I don’t think so!
You just lowered your lenses value to give you enough depth of field because you wanted longer virtual penis in mpix race!
What are you babbling on about? You claim a 4MP increase in resolution cuts the usable aperture in half? What do you base that on? Voodoo?
No . Down the MPs not the solution .
Current 20 MP is quite decent for m43 .
Make a 24MP for the upcoming Organic Sensor would be even appeal for m43
next generation sensor .
Reinvent = new design and some technical gimmicks. I don’t expect any huge innovations.
To be honest my E-PL5 is close to perfect for my needs. It will take a lot of technical gimmicks for them to convince me to move to something newer, haha.
5-way IBIS would set it apart.
I have few big wishes:
1) Make two lines of PEN cameras.
– One like the current E-P5 for backup/pro use.
– One like GM1/GM5 for compact system camera design.
2) Offer a EVF like in GM5, but no compromise for the rear display, it could be actually removed and show all the settings, shooting and reviews in the EVF.
3) If not the 2. then offer a cheaper external EVF with AP2, for price like 100-149€ as 199-299€ is just too much.
4) Allow the PEN be so slim without lens, that it fits to jeans pockets. So you can carry camera with you just body in one pocket and lens in a another (think about GM1 + Oly 14-42 Ez as it is so compact!!).
I like idea 2) because it would be a fresh approach. You can also fit more controls on a small body that way. The problem for Olympus is however that they can’t shrink their cameras as well as Panasonic and Sony can, so we still wouldn’t get the smallest package. Oly also doesn’t have lenses that only have a diameter of the mount, so they can’t / won’t shrink the height of the camera as much.
Oly does have like 45mm, 25mm and 60mm that are bayonet size by diameter.
Mount is a plastic tube inside a lens. Bayonet is the locking mechanism and plate that is screwed to the lens mount and camera body.
In that sense (accurate technical) Panasonic and no one else doesn’t have a such lenses as all have a larger diameter than the lens mounts are.
http://www.phototools.com/imagesproc/L2ltYWdlcy9wcm9kdWN0L21haW4vUy0wMzAyMzJ4MjAwMF8zLmpwZyA=_H_SW700.jpg
Thanks for the clarification, but I have also seen many times the whole thing (bajonet + mount) described as mount. So Oly ist just missing a standard zoom that only is bajonet size in diameter. Although they probably won’t be able to shrink the camera that much anyway.
Maybe it’s just me, but for a backup I would always pick the E-M10 because it’s very smiilar to the other OM-Ds from the handling.
you are right – I think they should make one consistent user interface across all models from the smallest PEN to the largest OMD.
Actually I’d rather see both as one single product line, with form factor being the only difference.
you must have BIG pockets if you can carry an em10 in them.
It fits easily in my inner jacket pocket – at least without the additional grip.
They’re basically going to design a new camera body for the next PEN, which is entirely a given anyway. It’s going to have some new features otherwise it’ll be pointless to make it, so that’s a given too. “reinvent” is probably just the wrong word to use. Everyone is jabbering about what that means. They might go for a totally different design style, and that’s just a matter of taste, but looking at how the GM1 and GM5 were received for their minimalistic stylings, not a bad idea form a sales point of view.
that makes sense since theyr olympus global contest talks about a new pen as a first prize, above omd prizes, so something new definitely is coming, this december, or first months 2016
Of course Pens fall behind their sales
targets, when they price 16mpix epl7 without ospdaf above 24mpix a5100 with OSPDAF? How many are they hopng to sell this way, 1 to their biggest fanboy?
Why is every post you do about PDAF? It’s not like Olympus EPL or Panasonic GM/GF buyers are all photographers for sports illustrated and need top of the line focus tracking. A5100 is well priced plastic camera with a very good sensor(but laggs behind in every other way), but I would pick and EPL7 over it in a heath-beat.
Focusing is about lens focus motors moving focus lens group moving back and worth, moving acceptable depth of field closer or further from the image plane.
Focus tracking is totally different thing. That is either manual action called Panning, or automatic that is software tracking shape or color across the frame and using the focus points on that part of the frame to focus at the tracked part.
Tracking is not same thing as Focusing.
Of course it isn’t the same, but pdaf is often used for tracking purposes. (As it is more successful in determining distances).
Why? Because it is the thing needed by many, and useful for most. Simple thing Oly already has since 2013, but refuses to put in all their cameras like all their competitors do. a5100 gives better IQ and better at autofocus, it is smaller and gives better battery life and unlike the Oly has built-in flash, what is left there for E-PL7 to compete with? Both are basically the same in all other respects (3″ screen, WiFi), although the Oly loses like total shit in all the majors I mentioned above. And Oly USA has the galls to price it higher? It might (MIGHT) sell at half the price of a5100 to budget-concious buyers, although I would buy a5100 instead even at twice the price of E-PL7.
Something as *nice* as the GM1 in terms of overall quality with IBIS would be amazing.
I was blown away by the quality difference (build, screen, etc.) between GMs and PMs/PLs.
It’s simple…..in the end these are all the same. Old design/new design. Nobody cares. Just lower the price and you may have a shot at survival. I may be wrong but since the camera industry has basically gone down the Toilet, most consumers aren’t forking over $1500 for a camera. Furthermore, nobody even knows who Olympus is for the most part because they are nowhere to be found as far as marketing and in store presence. A company can’t be all that successful selling to a small percentage of gear addicted,spec craved GASaholics.
Just lowering prices will not keep you in the market. I just attended a great wedding in Madrid, people from all over the world. I was the only guy out of 150 guests to bring a camera. There was one(!) guy having a consumer video, and some 140 guests with iPhones & Co, mostly rather new models.
The smartphone is the new small camera, and trying to lower your prices will not create a market.
They will raise prices as all manufacturers are doing.
There’s no money in cheap disposable cameras and the answer is to only make premium cameras.
The industry created its own problems by doing this.
The phone industry did the same and is now also moving upmarket with all metal premium designs.
The watch industry has been doing it for a long time. After all a cheap digital watch does the same as a Rolex and is arguably more durable. But people want the Rolex.
That is the only way to survive in a saturated market. Make objects that are very desirable and cost a lot.
well I suppose I agree with these statements about high end products and quality goods, but, I am not so sure these outsourced products are finely hand crafted works of art. There are quality control problems with all of these camera companies. I really hate to say it but consumers rarely get what they pay for anymore.
Options Olympus has (in my oppinion) for revamped PEN line:
– Getting much smaller (with simplified or no shutter mechanism), Panasonic style (GM1, GM2)
– Camera without EVF, but kinda (Google like) glasses EVF display included with kit (bluetooth/WIFI communication between camera glasses) Sort of further evolution of AIR camera, but you don’t need a phone…
– New, so far unseen communication / programming features (like camera has integrated SIMM card, and can be configured to upload files / communicate with cloud storage / creation of shooting scripts with some sort of programming language…) In short – camera would get a lot of Smartphone functionality, but would probably not run Android software. I guess that would make Thom HOGAN jump to the skies, and say “I TOLD YOU SO…!!!”
I would prefer if they would reinvent the E-5 and release a E-7 or so … that E-M1 is way to small and rattly
I bought an EM5 mark II because there was no EP7 to buy.
Sleek design + usable AF-C, please!
Not much difference between the Pen and the OM-D line. Why do you need to package the same sensor, same image stabilization, etc in two different bodies.
Time to let the Pen die. Money, etc wasted on a new Pen could kill Olympus. There are already too many OM-D cameras.
OMD cannot overtake Rangefinder Camera .
The unique of a RF camera can’t be replace with all the EM series available .
Have a look on the sweaty GM5 & lovely GX7 , Oly really need something special
to compete against these formidable duo .
I doubt Oly can do much to improve the EP5. I’ll just buy another one for dirt cheap when my camera dies- likely no time soon. This is why they aren’t selling. A niche product thats already satisfied that niche.
Well sadly it will die sooner then later because of not working front or rear dial wheels.
Mine has fallen twice (on 2 different Olympus E-P5s).
Yes this is Olympus today. Very similar trouble is reported for many E-M1 units.
My old E-PLx units still work … QC is going down.
Cheers
All camera makers have the same QC troubles. And Nikon is no.1. But Oly isnt innocent either.
Nope. Problem with Olympus is that it is a small company (camera division) and they can not afford to make any manufacturing changes. It’s a well known fact that E-P5 dials are falty but they were manufacturing it till the end without any changes. This would not happen to Canon or Nikon.
Sadly more E-M1 and E-P5 are their TOP models …
I’ve had zero problems with mine. I’ve had it for about two years now I think. I’ve dropped it and treated it like garbage. I drag it out into the woods and into the rain. Everything works as it should.
Either you do not use your camera often enough or you are quite lucky guy,
Mine refused to work after 1.5 year and the other one camera had the same trouble after 1 year of a very light use.
I use it a few times every week. I don’t have that many shots- I do not believe it is above 15k yet. However, no problems with it. My wife dropped it last year so the top has a dent but it operates without any issues. Maybe I did luck out, but I guess I want buy another one if what your saying is true.
I picked up an E-PL6 for about $260 for my wife–nice little camera and lens for that price point. Really. No need for the rest of the line. It may not be cutting edge but the price is right.
If they have to evolve make it like the Tough line.
It would be cool if they did a hybrid VF much like the X-Pro1. To keep the PEN line relevant, it seems like they need to add features that really add to the value of a psuedo-rangefinder form factor.
I waited long for the new Pen and I found it . . . But it’s called GM5. Make something like that but with a stabilized sensor ( 16mm is enough .. .) at a reasonable price and the GM5 has a companion.
I’m sure style will rank over usability – and thus it should be!
I want it to compete with rx100 series. Make it as small as possible, built in view finder that is not humped, fully articulating touch screen, built in flash and should be pant pocketable with a pancake lens 🙂
They need a better pancake zoom, too. The 14-42 EZ just doesn’t cut it.
A pure waste of time. You can’t bake a dramatically different cake by mixing the same ingredients, only because the first one came out very good. Only Olympus marketing heads can’t see that… They should instead listen to what people and Oly pro-aiming users need (and what others do to keep being competitive). They put out already a good deal of consumer average stuff. All same sensor… all same just limited functions. I am frankly tired of that.
For the minority that demand a RF style, Olympus needs one high end Pen…E-P6 with integrated EVF that is what the GX7 could have been. Compact E-PL to compete with GM5. All smaller P&S are redundant and being replaced by smart phones. Give me the best of GX7 and X-E2 and roll it into a premium E-P6 thank you very much…..including a screen that just tilts.
+1 for GX-7 and X-E2 features, design and handling.
But I really need also big back AF-On buton, If Oly will bring such cam, I will buy it, Current Pen line is all waste of money and resources in my view.
What is wrong with a decent function button that you can configure for back button AF if you want to? That possible to configure on all recent Panasonic and Olympus body’s.
+2 for GX-7 X-E2 size/design. By the way didn’t realize the X-E2 is lighter and smaller than the GX7 ! (and APS-C) That GX8 is really too big …
waouh.. 57 comments so far and about 50 completely different directions.. I doubt that Olympus engineers and marketing team would find this helpful at all 😉
The formula is pretty simple. A worthwhile Pen must be very small (GM sized but with better shutter), EFV, IBIS, good build quality and available body only, with the 14-42EZ and with a prime like the 25 or 17. Cost has to stop at $450 body only, $499 with the EZ lens and no more than $599 with a prime. Otherwise Olympus should kill the Pen line and focus on OM-D adding real features (20MP, handhold able hi-res mode and better video support) and it might seem improve QC. Thus far I have no complaints with any of my Olympus equipment, from the film OM days to my newest being EM5 and 2 metal primes and the 12-40 zoom. No doubt, unhappy owners are always louder than those who are pleased so hopefully that accounts for the high number threads I’ve seen about QC problems. Based on my experiences I still don’t believe dials falling off without abuse or accident is the norm but I also don’t have the latest bodies. I hope QC has not taken such a tumble because I would like an EM1II or EM2 when it arrives.
I entirely second that (although I would rather see a new, better pancake zoom); but I will not hold my breath …
m43 camera with Olympus Android OS, lol!
I wouldn’t be surprised.
What can they reinvent to bring it closer to youndger public…
That would make a lot of sense, it could give the PEN line the boost it needs. A highly undercover android, with full functionality between the camera and the most used photography apps / sites.
the feature I want Oly to add in the PEN line is the EVF. Many will say then it becomes an OMD but never say never.
You are not far away from having that kind of camera but still the old question here .
Will it have new sensor to it’s support ?
That is what you should worry , not RF with VF cause the camera GX7 alike is
almost guarantee for Oly .
Most of posters here are talking about many, diverse features to improve photography experience. Dunno if all Panasonic fans care about is sensor, but here, we are looking at the whole camera system and sensor is merely a part of it.
Just sayin’
It’s just unlikely they will release a new PEN before sensor update that will surely come to EM1 II first.
Obviously they will have a new PEN or PL after that, since EPL6 is the top mirrorless seller in Japan that will need a update.
The E-PL7 is already there.
Aware of it. It just does not catch on as EPL6
E-PL6 was updated over a year ago. Please refrain from throwing around your opinion without knowing your facts.
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/olympus-pen-e-pl7
Oly needs a replacement as a best seller, not just A replacement.
Given your past responses, not surprised you’ve missed it.
I’d like to see an E-PM.
Considering Panasonic now only makes full featured rangefinders in either Extra Small or Extra Large, Oly might be on to something if mid sized.
Cough – current Lumix range is GH4 GH4R G7 G8 GM5 GM1 GX8 GX7 GF7 GF6. The latter, the GF- are mid range. The GM1 is fiddly. Olympus still do the E-PM2.
I was speaking to Panasonic’s current line of “full featured rangefinders”
Two of those are SLR bodies (GH4, GH4R)
One a SLR hybrid (G7)
Three are discontinued (GM1, GX7, GF6)
And one doesn’t even exist (G8)
Leaving in the arena of “full featured rangefinders” including only The GM5 (Extra Small) and the GX8 (Extra Large).
There is no such a M43 sensor so far as Panasonic is falling behind in the area. Even the sensor in GX8 is borrowed from Sony, which is meh meh, nothing special. Look like Sony keeps the best for themselves.
Olympus would have to try really hard to make this happen.
I really dont see what is wrong with the current PENs. EP5 and EPL7 are both very good cameras with good features, just not very affordable. Built-in EVF is for OMD, and the only possibility to have one for a PEN makes it more like a GX from Panasonic. Not a bad thing, but I would argue that it becomes something else entirely.
I do have a grudge though, that my EP5 gets short changed on features such as unlimited time laps, and some other goodies for the OMD lines via firmware update. It feels as if they ONLY care about OMD and not PEN users. If they supported the PEN line as much and offered better value, they may see better sales numbers.
I think it is the key for a new PEN to have the same level of features built in as their EM-1 MKII, and be updated as much. Of course, they need a new sensor and better video for all their cameras as well.
What is wrong with the current PENs? Too pricey what they offer.
The E-PL7 is actually quite cheap and does most of what the E-M5ii can do, give it a VF-4 for when you can’t see the monitor.
One person’s cheap is another person’s kind of pricey.
Sure, after paying the better part of an additional $300 one can add a terrific V-F4 to several Pen models. My point is that if EVF’s were designed in and built in, they would be less obtrusive and less expensive.
“Built-in EVF is for OMD.”
That’s like saying headlights are only for certain cars; that everyone should have a car with headlights for when they drive somewhere at night and another car with no headlights for daytime use.
I like my Pens. I take them out in bright daylight, where their LCD’s too often are all but completely blanked out by the sun. I must then put an expensive add-on EVF on the camera, try to improvise some kind of shade, point ‘n’ guess, or go take pictures indoors. In reality, EVF’s should be standard equipment on all better cameras, just as headlights are standard on all cars.
I’d say it’s more like saying truck beds are for pickup trucks.
I’m cool with the next Pen having no EVF. I have yet to see a compact camera with a good viewfinder that doesn’t make that viewfinder a central part of the design (E-M10, GX etc). The GM5’s VF is horrid. Just leave it out and add controls.
Considering the usefulness of an EVF when the LCD is useless, I’m cool with an EVF being a central part of the design. I’m at a loss trying to understand how your truck beds comment has any relevance to my analogy about cars with or without headlights. I’m talking about basic, vital necessities on cars and on cameras.
As for the GM5’s EVF, the fact another manufacturer produced a camera with a lacking EVF has no bearing on what Olympus could and should do.
I assume he thinks that a truck is designed to carry large items which a svelte 2 seater coupe which although looks nicer hasn’t got the size to fit on smaller country roads (i.e. pocket). Basically a high quality EVF can fit, but in my opinion the reason why Olympus doesn’t put an EVF into a range finder style camera is because they have been burned when the public didn’t buy such camera’s e.g. E300 and E330. As they added bulk and the people who bought them were kind of niche, and the SLR hump has been decorated as “Pro” by the Canikon brigade, it’s worked so well that the E500 sold much better than the E330 even though it was larger and fewer features(no dual live view/mirror viewfinder) and worse sensor, smaller viewfinder. The only difference was the E500 had a mirror hump which then sold much better even with all the disadvantages. It would be interesting to see the sales figures for Panasonic cameras as they are going for both styles to see if the bias still exists, but by tradition, Olympus attracts more older users than Panasonic so they may not have the option without risking a loss.
Good and interesting points, especially about how people relate to the SLR prism hump. I think that might be changing, though, as people have had more experience with phone cameras, so-called smartcams and other form factors.
Camera designers have come up with all sorts of clever ways to downsize in recent years. I have an E420, prism hump and all. It’s a good camera, IMO. It’s main shortcoming is the lack of IBIS. But regarding size, look at the photo in the link that follows, with top-view, back-to-back comparison of the E420 and E-P1. I think it’s remarkable.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/olyigel/3708411680
Hey, if Oly can fit a quality EVF into a E-PM then go for it. This is just a dilemma manufacturers have. Some photo enthusients have it in their head that its not a real camera w/o a viewfinder, so they ram one in regardless of how much it sucks.
I’m all for it buddy, but Olympus needs to make sure the new sensor gets big improvement over E-M5 sensor, not only-slightly-better joke like the GX8 sensor.
And where on earth is that sensor going to come from?!?!
The rumored one E-M1 II is going to use? It better is good if Olympus will use it for next 3 years.
That might not be the one they’ll use in the revamped PEN though, but then again, I suppose they need to test a new sensor somewhere before committing it to their top model.
But your idea of big improvements over the E-M5 sensor is a bit of a dream. Where will that design & manufacture come from & occur? Your wish does not mean it is possible to fulfil (in reasonable time & at suitable costs).
OH, BTW, that one you’re talking about. It’s a rumour!
Pen is expensive, heavy, no grip, no EVF, camera designed for fashionista snap chicks but a really good camera inside. They should create their version of the GM5….ie a trip
Heavy? Really? No offense, but if you find any of the Pens weigh you down to the point of discomfort, a health checkup might be in order. If that turns out OK, some exercise including with barbells should help.
I would like a PEN with VF, But don’t think it will happen. . .
A top line PEN would be solely catering to those who “need” the RangeFinder look but would otherwise be satisfied with an OMD, and I’m not sure this would be a financially sensible model next to 3 OMD lines.
I think Oly need 1 PEN as the cheap option for the system. Probably needs to be compact above all else!
I dont think you’re far off.
Rather than 3 models for each line, they could have a single line with ~4 models.
EPM (going for GM size)
EP ( RF style EVF)
EM5
EM1 (which could inherit a bit more from the E series)
that said, I think the two models that sold the best were the EPL and EM10 – but I think one would chose those over EP and EM5 mostly because of price – so special care needed for the middle of the line (EP/EM5): no compromises at a reasonable price. Success guaranteed.
I know it’s not gonna happen.
Oh, and the Pany line up is a good reference :
GM vs EPM
GX vs EP
G vs EM5
GH4 vs EM1
very coherent, all needs are covered, as long as they are not priced out of reach
Frankly, I don’t see much market for the PEN line. A dedicated device without seamless connectivity is a very hard sell to selfie fashionistas and for “ordinary” people it’s still on the more expensive side. Actually, I wonder what percentage of such people even need an interchangeable lens camera. It seems like Olympus produces PENs for the sake of producing PENs.
given the same functionality I’d choose a PEN over an OMD any day.
I did so with the EP5, and chose it over the EM5. But I do miss the EVF.
I dont think that the limited success of the PEN line means that it couldn’t have success *IF DONE RIGHT*.
IMO olympus made a lot of weird choices that have hindered it’s success. Features, look, handling, form factor, lineup, marketing, PRICING – it seems they experimented all over the place, with variable success – sometimes without a very clear goal it seems.
So a new approach to the PEN line sounds like a good idea to me – I just hope they get it right. Because the might very well drop the ball entirely.
But the EP5 and EPL7 sure give me hope to see more good things from Olympus.
I am happy owner of E-P5, since I wear glasses I don’t need EVF. In new PEN I would love to see PDAF and higher resolution of picture on smartphone when camera is on Wi-Fi control.
“since I wear glasses I don’t need EVF”
Huh?
That doesn’t sounds like an intelligent answer, unless you have “special” glasses! 😉 Get this, not everyone wearing glasses has the same vision as you!
I do wear glasses and like my EVF very much, thank you.
– much more reliable in bright light.
– higher resolution, better judging of focus.
– better stability, by having arms bended versus holding a camera at arms length and by providing a third point of contact (head against camera)
– ‘tunnel view’ leads to better concentration and composition
there’s probably more, but these are just the first that come to mind. None of them have anything to do with glasses.
EVF can be a bit awkward to use with glasses, or not work for you, given its limited dioptry correction – but not needing them outright sounds strange. Not wanting them is fine of course, I’ve managed several years without it on the PEN series, but eventually I got the EM10 ‘just for the EVF’ and totally feel the EP6 should have it. For EPL and EPM it’s less of a necessity IMO. But with the GM5 it was shown that the small size of the camera is no excuse.
Olympus scores major points as far as fun factor goes. Yet, I don’t see how without any significant improvements in IQ it can continue to command it’s prices. I see the OMD line as electronic jewelery including the top EP5. I’m totally fine with that by the way as I love the cameras.
With that said, an A7II isn’t all that much more expensive especially on the used market. There are plenty of smaller lenses although not quite as fast. Given the cost though- you can always look forward to pushing higher resolution, getting better ISO and adapting decades of full frame glass onto your camera.
Despite such a compelling product- the market is so freaking tight right now. I fail to see how they can continue gain new market share. I didn’t even mention fuji either (I’m not a fan). Seriously though, they have some interesting products over there.
I think it would be interesting if Olympus took a shot at full frame similar to Sony’s cybershot line-up. Fixed lens cameras with state of the art technology- you know- do FF the olympus way.
Good for Olympus. I hope the “more features” will include a good EVF, VF-2 or VF-4 good, as standard equipment. And, using economies of scale from including the EVF as standard on all models (or at least most models), pass the lower cost of these built-in EVF’s on to customers. That’s a good way to be more competitive and score gains over Panasonic and Sony.
Opinion is obviously divided on what the new definition of the PEN should be. The PEN F was a half frame film, interchangeable lens, brick shaped SLR. The digital PEN was originally a synonym for Micro Four Thirds, a different animal entirely. The OM-D cameras live on as successful DSLR type cameras and the PEN is a flop. Why? Because the market has answered very loudly that the RX100 type cameras are perfectly suited to fill the roll as the highly flexible, kick-around, trippy, brick shaped widget, whose imaging qualities fit a convenient definition of excellence. The IQ is not absolute, but awesome, for a good many things because of the fast lens, and it sells a hell of a lot better than the Nikon One. I am not sure how well the LX100 is doing, but here is the kicker. You could substitute a 38mpx FourThirds sensor in an LX500 and have the same pixel size as the 20mpx one inch. Do the math. The area is 1.9 times greater, 225 / 116; or you could do say 24 mpx for better low-light sensitivity. I don’t really think we need a brick with a lens mount. We must have EVF.
Mark, do you mean RX100 when you write “LX100” or “LX500”? LX100 is somewhat cropped but still much larger than a 1 inch like RX100, which is the ratio you calculated.
Actually I meant to refer separately to Sony RX100-MkIV and Panasonic LX100. And yes I do understand that the LX100 does not make full use of the FourThirds sensor. I was just thinking out loud about a 38mpx sensor that could be binned down to 19mpx when 3200 ISO was needed, so that in all ways such a sensor could exceed the one inch, PROVIDED that you supply the camera with an equally fast, fixed lens. The pancakes that go on the PEN cameras have dismally slow apertures that currently put them at a one-stop disadvantage compared to the RX100-MkIV. If cropped the same way as an LX100 that would work out to about 31mpx.
The appropriate strategy would have been:
Pen line –> Half Frame as the original (which they did with the 2 crop factor sensor) but with included EVF
OMD line –> Full Frame as the original
Pen line for street, discreet, travel, low weight etc. photography
OMD line for more demanding applications, professional, wedding, sports, wildlife, fashion, weather sealed, flash etc.
Now all you have is the same cameras with a different form factor…
The draw of MFT for me is having so many form factors that utilize the same mount.
With most other camera makers, one mount = one form factor (SLR)
To me, that’s a strength.
And two lens ranges ?
I think you would still be waiting for many of the lenses we have now.
And paying significantly more as each lens range would sell a lot less.
Please Olympus, no more EVF warts. Make them integral like GX7/8 for top models and leave them out altogether on budget models, with WiFi connectivity of course.
Dream on
I just don’t get why Olympus don’t just re-invent a micro four thirds E-1 series. Heck, it can even has a tiltable LCD like the E-10. The ergonomics is great and the size is perfect for the PRO lenses. WTF
You’re talking apples and oranges. The E-1 was designed around a four thirds sensor. That required a larger lens mount than M43’s.
“Reinventing” the micro four thirds system back to a four thirds system is a non starter. Four thirds didn’t attract sufficient sales, probably because the system offered little advantage over DSLR’s, for which millions of enthusiasts and pro’s already had tens or hundreds of millions of lenses. Four thirds cameras weren’t that much smaller and lighter, and offered little or no price advantage over APS-C DSLR’s. M43 did offer size and weight advantages, and some were somewhat less expensive, if not at introduction within a year or so.
Yeah, I get your point but I was just bitxhing about the E-1 form factor, which I think is great and can be miniaturized for the m43.
They did design & build one & it was the E-7 (with flappy mirror & all), but they decided not to release that but released the E-M1 instead as they decided it was living up to suitable expectations at the time.
OK, Robbie, that does make sense and could be done.
@ S.W. Anderson “You’re talking apples and oranges. The E-1 was designed around a four thirds sensor. That required a larger lens mount than M43’s.”
We’re still using a 4/3’s sensor, just not the flappy mirror with M4/3’s mount. 😉
Ross, we’re using a portion of the 4/3 sensors, and the way it’s being used makes it possible for the mount to be smaller and the rear lens-to-sensor distance to be shorter. That makes possible a notably more compact camera design. You’re right, of course, about M43 doing away with the mirror, it’s linkages and a prism.
I don’t know where you’re getting this idea that we are only using a portion of the sensor (apart from the normal usage area out of the total which is a negligible difference). You must be confused with some info from somewhere else, like “The 4/3’s sensor is only a quarter of the area of a FF sensor” or “it is a 2 X crop factor”. That does not change from the 4/3’s DSLR cameras to that of the M4/3’s cameras. We use the same as 4/3’s DSLR’s on all M4/3’s bodies except for the multi-aspect sensor that was used in the Pana GH2 (I think that was the model). The way the M4/3’s lenses work is not to use a smaller area but to focus on the same area at a closer distance than the 4/3’s lenses. That is all! My Olympus E30 DSLR camera’s 12mp sensor was then used in the Oly PENs until the E-M5 came along with the new Sony 16mp sensor which has continued to be used in all of the Olympus models except the E-M1 which uses a Panasonic sensor (for on sensor PD-AF).
Also, the M4/3’s mount was only made smaller because the physical size of the M4/3’s lenses could be made smaller (at least for the shorter focal lengths) because it is closer to the sensor & the optics can be designed smaller than the equivalent 4/3’s lenses that would normally sit further away in front of that flappy mirror & also because the M4/3’s lenses couldn’t have the same mount as the 4/3’s lenses.
BTW, M4/3’s format is really a misnomer. It might be called “Micro Four Thirds” but it should have been called “Mirrorless Four Thirds” because that is all it is in meaning; that is, a smaller mount that also allows those lenses to sit closer to the sensor now there is no mirror there taking up that space.
The time a (slightly) smaller portion of the sensor is used is when Image Stabilisation is used for some applications. That’s only because of the amount of movement possible with the sensor. Of course, selecting a different aspect is only cropping from the 4/3’s output for the jpeg (but the full size is saved for RAW).
I hope that clarifies things a little & sorry if I have repeated myself somewhat, but I just wanted to make sure I could convey all relevant details I could think of.
I distinctly recall reading, most likely on dpreview, but it could’ve been in any of a dozen places, that M43 cameras use a reduced area of 4/3rds sensors. I didn’t pluck it out of thin air. If that’s wrong, I stand corrected. Thanks for setting the record straight.
Unfortunately, that site has been known over time to make a comment here & there (especially in early days of 4/3’s & M4/3’s gear) that could be classed as being biased, coming from a “full frame is best” attitude that might have given a slightly misleading bit of info to the unwary about the system or else it might have been from the FF fanboys.
The good part of doing away with the mirror & mounting native lenses closer is that it also allows other lenses that could not be fitted to the 4/3’s DSLR because they couldn’t mount them close enough to focus at infinity but now they can with appropriate adapters.
Tottaly agree. EM1 is just not there in terms of ergonomics, quite behind the GH4 IMO. This and the GM1/5-like consensus, with top IBIS and proper dials.
Yes, yes, yes!!! I’m waiting for the PEN with IBIS that’s the size of the GM1 or smaller. The E-P5 is just awkward in between the PL line and the OM-D line, and the E-PL7 is bigger than the E-PL5 and PL6. How about a nice tiny E-PM5?
I think some of the “days of tiny” are a little over now (except if you want the iWatch). I replaced my phone & now the smart phones are just getting so big, it isn’t funny!
I want a smaller version of the GX8 with Olympus’ JPEG engine and IBIS – that’s what the PEN should be. I much prefer corner placed EVFs.
Here’s an idea. How about including an actual freaking pen with your purchase. Every time I buy one of these I thought I’d be up and writing on parchment before the end of the day. No such luck, just a camera in the box. What a bummer.
Better autofocus, better video and an EVF would be nice, for me. Would love to upgrade my EP5 soon.