After yesterdays post I got feedback from more sources including some trusted sources. The new E-P5 definitely has NO(!) electronic viewfinder. Price of the camera with kit lens should be close to $1,000. It will also be announced “soon” (how soon I don’t know) and probably be in Stock by June/July. A source also confirmed that major high end Olympus cameras are coming the second half of the year.
I ask the sources if they may can give me some more hint about the upcoming new lenses and the exact release date. Thanks!
—
Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
FT3=41-60% chance the rumor is correct
FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
229 Responses
I guess built-in evf is reserved for the highend “pro” cameras as they will be expensive?
1000 is not enough expensive? 🙂
I wouldn’t pay 300 for an EP anything, in fact I wouldn’t even pay 500 for a OMD, at this point. I guess someone will give Oly it’s bread money, but it won’t come from me. 🙂
Valuable info, thanks for sharing!
I’d planned on a new PEN with EVF, but now will just wait til the next iteration of OMD and buy the current, weather-sealed one when the price drops to $800 (refurbed would be fine).
E-P5 with EVF will cost about 1300,-. An OMD with build in EVF is less expensive! That is what counts.
If the E-P5 doesn’t have the new 20MP Sonysensor, it will be no attractive deal.
And according to Oly’s strategy, the new sensor will be reserved for new pro-Models.
Wonder,… so you know Sony will produce a FT sensor on 20mpx soon.
But won’t this get really pricy for the SE black model they now will have that comes with a nicer strap at $1300?
I would prefer modularity. I would be willing to pay extra for this feature—like the NEX-5n/r.
GASP!
No FF and 1000 $? Are they trying Seppuku (hara kiri)?
Gotterdammerung, admin? 🙂
Good grief!
I will wait for GX2 – whatever it will be.
At least we see that the Yakuza Spirit still lives at Olympus!
ADMIN. …we are tired of looking at this couch…can you at least get us a throw pillow to spice it up a little???? 🙂
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2HjIv8amalU/UTXwOKkjILI/AAAAAAAAAbw/yDTIVKAhK_U/s800/Couch.jpg
Lol, awesome
I was going to make the pillow silver..but then everyone would demand black?! LOL!
Olympus, be prepared for a coup d’état!
I could care less, coz I’m happy with my omd 🙂
And by the way, Admin, could you do us ALL a favor?
Those Trusted Sources who some months (a year?) ago said that the whole PEN line would see a revolution, and later the also said that the E-Px line would stop to exist as it was before and be reborn in a completely new concept… would you please downgrade them from Trusted Sources (FT5) to Plain Liars (FT0)?
Thanks!!!
ROFL
+1 on that.
They also said last November that there would not be any fast zooms during 2013. Now apparently they have changed their mind again. Sounds like these Oly inside reps are using admin for their own purposes.
you, know these are other trusted sources, far more trusted than all the others 😉
Unless it has the 5-axis IBIS of the EM-5, I can’t see the point of this.
The E-PL2 already has the (excellent) sensor and 2-axis IBIS. If you’re paying this much of a premium just for an extra dial and a couple of buttons, you may as well pay a little more and get the EM-5 with the better IBIs and a viewfinder.
“Unless it has the 5-axis IBIS of the EM-5, I can’t see the point of this.”
Even with all the goodies of OMD, modulo EVF, at $1000 I do not see point of this.
The E-PL5 might have not all goodies, but has street price of $600 right now.
This is both disappointing and interesting. As you said (fantard) perhaps it will have the 5 axis IBIS?
It certainly needs more than just a few extra controls to warrant that price over the E-PL5.
The E-P? range has always been the one that most appeals to me – but if Olympus aren’t careful it could end up as something of a pointless product sandwiched between the PL5 and OMD.
It won’t have the same 5-axis IBIS, as the hump is needed to place the sensors up high.
sure – but that was the reason when the EM5 was in development. Things are always advancing. Also the EVF in the OMD simply has to be part of the reason the hump is so big, no?
I’m not convinced the hump is necessary for the IBIS sensors.
it could have the 5-axes IBIS, but the probably the 12 MP sensor because
if it’d have all the goodies of the E-M5 for 1000.- who would then buy the E-M5 for even more?
but we will see
Very dissapointing, that’s all that can be said really. On the positive side they MUST have something special up their sleeve to distinguish it from the omd and epl5 for that price?
maybe weather sealing is what differentiates e-p from e-pl?
in europe the OM-D is now in stock for 899€; what would be the point of upgrading to E-P5 ?
Only after significant price drop.
Big FAIL !!!
Did they learn nothing from Fuji ?
This is a typical response here from so many to what is still only a rumour. We don’t know the specs & once they are known, even then there will be those that won’t be satisfied or will find something to be critical about. Reacting to minimal information from a rumour is only, what I like to call, “dummy spitting”. 😉
Here’s a rumour : (FT5) No viewfinder means fail, no matter the other specs
Have you picked up the camera & tried it? Can you tell me all its specs? No, of course not! What’s the point of spitting your dummy until we know what it is offering?
Thank you – makes me feel better having recently bought the GH3 😉
No. Bueno.
It says 1,000 EUR with kit lens. Depends on the kit lens: With 14-42 II or 12-50 probably a bit high, with a f2,8 zoom – maybe interesting 😉
You don’t really think they include a F2.8 zoom or are you that naïve.
Come on a F2.8 zoom should at least do €800 or more so a body for €200 could never ever be high end!!!!1
doesn’t have to be constant f/2.8 and does not have to start at 12mm. Both making it more expensive. Look at the Fuji kit-Zoom…
I know the reason! Main customers being Camera Joshi, Asian women, they are afraid of spoiling their false eyelashes with an EVF.
Makes plenty of sense 🙂
You actually got a good point there.
Oohh. Got it. E-P5 is for women.
Meh. Asian women = fake eyelashes?
Sure, his favorite hooker. Think M Butterfly….
Wonder what could justify this high price???
as emde said, maybe with nice new kit lens…
but body only, they can’t sell it much more than epl5
I might be one of the only ones happy about this. As an EPL2 with VF2 and OMD user this is a perfect body only update for my backup Camera. And when I want to go light no VF and 14mm, 20mm, and 45mm this is a nice more pocketable option than OMD with hump. If it has 5 axis IS,More manual control big bonus and worth the extra. For me. I will definítely look at it.
I am not saying it will a bad camera, just that it will quite expensive compared to the rest of the Olympus lineup
built in mascara dispenser? 😮
They’re behind in paying the rent?
Ridiculous pricing. It will cost more than a Nex-6, Fuji X-E1 or OM-D,
without having a VF (worth ~200 Euro)…
^^^This. For a grand, it better have a EVF or it wont compete. Not with the XE-1 and NEX6 out.
Shocking. This better have something special or they must be smoking something. OM-D and EPL5 are already awesome and priced very reasonably. This sounds like a really confusing release
If EP5 is without build in viewfinder , GX2 will be the same . This really disappointment of the day !
So hard for mFT to come out rangefinder camera with viewfinder attached to it . Even Fuji’s junior X camera , the X20 also have a nice build in viewfinder .
I would expect smarter from Panasonic : they recently did acknowledge that “enthusiasts market” was different from what they expected…
And their nice user interface (fantastic when compared with Olympus stubborn deep menus) clearly shows a more client oriented attitude !
Let’s hope…
Can’t follow you on the menu’s. Only thing to enable on the Oly’s is the SCP (Super Control Panel) an 95% of all changes can be done very quickly. If you need the functions of the other 5% you’ll have to dig at first but then if it’s typical for you than you will remember them.
The only thing missing is a kind of custom settings bar where like Pana you could put your own specific items. Although this is very linited at Pana too.
“GX2 will be the same”
Crossing fingers that its not.
But then, Panasonic probably put decade worth of innovation into the GH3, meaning that GXn and the rest would be some me-too, mild upgrade only. Sadly.
“Even Fuji’s junior X camera, the X20 also have a nice build in viewfinder.”
It’s an optical, non-TTL VF. Pretty useless for a zoom camera in general – and totally useless for an ILC.
“It’s an optical, non-TTL VF. Pretty useless for a zoom camera in general”
The view finder in the x20 does zoom as you zoom with the lens. It’s probably not 100% accurate in displaying the field of view but it works pretty good. I played with one in a shop. .
Perhaps you already know this. . . I don’t know what TTL stands for in your post.
TTL = Through The Lens
Really disappointing!!!
I think price is 1000$ = includes new 12-60mm m4/3
no other explanation
That would make the EP-5 a $101 camera.
12-60mm m4/3 small and very cheap that 12-60mm 4/3
12-60 f/5.6-f/11? 😛
I wouldn’t be so sure about that the mirror being removed allows for considerably smaller lenses which are also far lighter. As an example the respective 7-14 lenses the price weight and size difference is very significant.
Weight length Price
Panasonic 7-14mmF4 300g 86.1mm $960
Olympus 7-14mmF4 780g 119.4mm $1800
Who knows maybe they could manage a design that removes the mustache distortion at 12mm on the current FT 12-60 , which weighs in at 575g is 98,5mm long and costs $900
.
It doesn’t matter what the individual products sell for if I’m purchasing as a kit. The bundled kits are often subsidised at the retail level (and should be!) so the consumer gets a discount when purchasing both camera body and lens together as a kit. What matters is the total kit price. For example, a Fuji X-E1 body currently retails anywhere from ~$800-1000. The Fujinon XF 35mm f/1.4 prime sells for ~$600 and the 18-55mm f/2.8-4 OIS kit-zoom for ~$700. I can get a bundled kit from a brick and mortar store with either the prime or the zoom for ~$1200. So there are savings of ~$300-500 when purchasing promoted kits instead of purchasing body and lens separately.
Body $800 Lens=$400
Body $900 Lens=$300
Body $1000 Lens=$200
Lens $700 Body=$500
Lens $600 Body-$600
What matters at the end of the day is what I pay in total.
But this is Fuji’s current pricing strategy I’m using as an example. Somehow, I don’t think that Olympus will be as kind as Fuji is as to what kit-lens they will bundle with the I-EVFless E-P5 for $1000. I don’t expect a f/2.8-4. It will probably be yet again either one of the two current slow kit-zooms: 14-42 or 12-50.
For that price if it doesn’t have a viewfinder then it should have this:
(1) All features of OM-D (except for VF).
(2) All video features of the GH3.
(3) Maybe combined phase + contrast AF system, for improved low-light and motion tracking AF.
The 5-axis IBIS together with all the GH3 video features would make a great product and might justify the price, even without a viewfinder.
Oh, but doesn’t that 5-axis IBIS require a hump ;)? And the camera under that cloth is humpless!
I’m also expecting something major to prevent me from buying E-PL5, that is two times cheaper.
Disappointed.
I don’t think the 5 axis IBIS necessarily needs the hump & it might be a possible inclusion (since there would be no built EVF), but lets hope the flash is still built in. That means an attached EVF can stay while a remote external flash can still be triggered.
A built in flash on an Olympus mFT, NEVER. Get a Panasonic or maybe a Kodak if you want that.
The E-P3 has a pop up flash & I would hope the E-P5 with no built in EVF to have the same, being useful for remote flash triggering (as well as fill if desired) while the hot shoe/accessories port is being occupied with the external EVF.
” And the camera under that cloth is humpless!”
No wonder it’s humpless – it’s the E-P3 (read the sign).
It says “EP3 successor”
Only a serious nut case would use a camera held out at arms length to make a video. I don’t mean serious video maker either.
Prob it has a similar IBIS like the OMD then. If i had the money, I would take this as my 2nd body beside the OMD.
oly please give us augmented reality headgear instead 🙂
Does it have a new sensor?
Maybe it is capable of detecting BS.
would be nice if it can use the HLD-6 too!
Now you’re hopin’! 😉
What will be focal lenght of rumored Oly f/2.8 zoom lens? Hope it will be larger than 12-35 mm.
this really is quite a big disappointment. i wonder what new features this e-p5 will bring, though.
+1
Fuji and Sony managers are celebrating at the moment :(.
At only £399 the Sony NEX 3n with 16-50mm lens is looking more attractive to me. I’d never buy another lens for it but for that price I’d have a very good sensor and an OK-ish zoom in a small package that I could take almost anywhere.
You could also consider one or both of the older Sigma EX DN primes for NEX E-mount. The 19mm f/2.8 and 30mm f/2.8 (28.5mm and 45mm equivalent focal lengths respectively in 35mm terms). Both have superb resolution, great colors and contrast. The 19mm has softer corners on the NEX compared to m4/3 but it’s still a very good lens on both. Don’t know what the current UK pricing is, but they were available for $99 each recently. Even at $150, they would still be considered bargains. The 30mm performs well even on the notoriously difficult 24MP NEX-7 sensor. It performs well beyond its price point on the 16MP sensors of both NEX and m4/3.
OK KODAK.
You have seen the requirement for a rangefinder with EVF, 5 way IBIS and flip screen.
If (and its a big IF) you make it well. You are guaranteed of success.
I would be concerned it would be the cheap Chinese copy quality.
If they use the formulae and nail the quality they will hit Oly where it hurts.
If! 😉
Yeah, unlike Oly with their cracking screen holders and dials that drop off the cameras.
Well, if Kodak (Chinese manufacturer) can, then bring it on. Competition is welcome.
Does it have a swivel display?
G7
G3 😉
I currently use G3 (it’s a great camera) but I now consider to sell it (to a good friend) and upgrade to G7.
You´re considering the upgrade to a not existing camera??? >:•)
If G7 was just a G5 + GH3 sensor it would be already worth to upgrade. But I expect much more innovations here. 😉
Will Olympus ever release a small affordable camera with a built in EVF? I don’t need the 5 axis IBIS or the weather sealing of the EM5. I just want a half decent evf in a small affordable camera.
Me too.
Well, Panasonic recently said, not with the exact same words, they’d be targeting people with fat wallets (or those willing to spend no matter what). Olympus must have smelled blood and money. Good luck.
There’s no way I’ll spend eight to nine hundred bucks on a m4/3 body that has no inbuilt EVF and that can’t focus 4/3 lenses acceptably fast. What will the EP-5 be? A warmed-over EP-3 with the newer sensor and a shiny racing stripe?
In six months or so, the GH3 will look like a bargain. I don’t mind being behind the curve.
@the eye
There’s no way I’ll spend eight to nine hundred bucks on a m4/3 body that has no inbuilt EVF and that can’t focus 4/3 lenses acceptably fast. What will the EP-5 be? A warmed-over EP-3 with the newer sensor and a shiny racing stripe?
What will the E7 be assuming it will exist at all,surely not a warmed over E5 which was a warmed over E3 with the new sensor, that would be good recycling of a body that first appeared in 2007 lol
My personal wishes were a E-P5 WITHOUT and EVF, since those do not work well with the touchscreens. So thank you, Olympus :).
One more thing – a tilting touchscreen, please. Most preferable of OM-D size and proportions. And good E-M5 wheels also. That would be the perfect PEN 🙂
I may be the odd one out, but I find external EVFs a better solution than integrated ones. A viewfinder (VF-2 or better) must be included for this price. Otherwise the E-P5 cannot compete with the E-M5 (assuming no major improvements).
Why do you prefer an external evf? I’m guessing you never use never use flash or strobes, but even then, when I used a bolted on vf-2 before, never felt it as natural as an integrated one.
I am fortunate enough to have used both an E-P3 with VF-2 and an E-M5. I like the option to tilt the viewfinder, not to mention the possibility to remove it when not needed. I do use a flash occasionally, but when I do it’s always off camera via remote control (the E-P3 has an internal flash to take care of that, which leaves the hot shoe free).
Absolute agree Sneye.
Me normal use by EVF when i put camera in bag after i have use camera is at take of EVF and put one lens cap befor i put camera in bag, it`s easy for me anyway.
+1,000,000! I thought I was the only person who didn’t care about a built-in EVF, good to know that only 150 comments down someone else feels the same way! (I also like silver lenses, though, so I may just be contrary.)
Fair enough, I used a E-PM1 with VF2 before, so if wanted flash, no EVF. I tend to prefer radio triggers though to flash syncing though.
Agree the ability to tilt VF is nice, but still prefer the over-all more flush design of having it built in. To each his own 🙂
I don’t want a built-in EVF either – I am left-eyed. I want a high-end built quality Pen with a new sensor and superior ergonomics, not some junk electronic device that will fall in pieces within 2 years.
I want a great 912k+ OLED screen, lots of manual controls, a built-in flash, IBIS, an electronic level (none in E-PL5 or E-PM2), speedy AF and engine and no bugs, great jpgs and tonal curve, and an attractive kit lens (either prime or fast zoom). Hopefully I can still use the VF-2 with E-P5.
It has a square flip up frame on the top at the front. A flip up tab with a little hole just behind it.
Its a newfangled way of lining up the camera for a shot (Used to be called composition or framing). Flip up both the tab and the loop. Look through the hole, line shot up with inside edge of frame and press the shutter. Woweee a picture.
Just like the bellows camera my old man had. 😀
Don’t worry. E-PL1 had an introduction price of 599 euros, the clearance price was 99 euros last autumn.
I actually bought two E-PL1 for $129 each just a few weeks ago. I use one for reproductions and the other one as point&shoot. I refuse to spend a bundle for a “sensor holder.” Got the VF-2, the 14 mm Lumix and the 60 mm Macro. Meanwhile, my 12-60 etc are in use along with my E-620.
>Don’t worry. E-PL1 had an introduction price of 599 euros, the clearance price was 99 euros last autumn.<
So true! Never be an early adopter – or a milked cow – just wait a few months 🙂
If you don’t have a mobile phone don’t buy this. It links to your mobile and the image is displayed on the phone. Do all the composition and manual focus with your mobile. Just use the arrows on the screen for fine adjustment and the bars across the top and down the side for fine focus.
Just hope the camera is not nicked if left on a wall, tripod or forgotten as you eagerly check your shot on your mobile and send it to flickr or facebook.
You’re in good form tonight. 😉
Rumours, just rumours. Now I am in the wrong place it’s rumors, just rumors.
🙂
Wow! I’ll be able to focus my manual lenses using my iPhone? Now THAT’S innovation! 😉
Let’s look somewhere for someone who hope for RF camera with build in VF like me .
We still have chance here , the unclear Pro mFT camera by Panasonic is the last hope in 2013 .
A fix lens mFT camera or the very highend L style camera , just wait for admin to unveiled it .
I doubt that Panasonic will have a model above the GH3. The price would be prohibitive. I’d rather look out for a G6, which, if it is similar to the G5, but with the newer sensor, will likely be a very decent camera for a decent price.
You may have a better chance of Fuji vastly improving their AF…then we can just bail on MFT and have more for less, at least there could be a glimmer of hope there as Fuji continues to increase it’s lens line….. the way these MFT prices are headed has got me looking around…..
The Fuji AF is already sorted on the X100S, from what I have heard from early testers and owners. (It’s already shipping in Asia). Just don’t expect absolute instantaneous AF speed. For me and many others, it’s good enough now to consider as an alternative, once the new tech gets implemented into the Fuji X ILCs.
…but there is no excuse for it not being as fast as the most recent contrast autofocus of the lastest MFT bodies and lenses..
It should not be ANY slower…then Fui has a winner…and I think their sales would sky rocket. I would consider switching over and selling off all of my MFT cameras and lenses… Does Sam Yang make a Fisheye lens for the Fuji system?
Bob B., I understand the wish for would be adopters (and there are many of us!) for Fuji to get its AF system to match m4/3 levels and beyond. But one must understand that the Fuji X system is just one year old! m4/3 has had since 2008 to perfect its contrast detect AF to the level where it is now. That is a four year headstart on Fuji. For Fuji to get where it has and the interest it has generated in that time is a great effort for such a niche player in digital. No doubt that the AF will improve in both the bodies and lenses over time. They already have Phase Detect on the sensor now in the X100S and in some of their compacts. Early user reports vary somewhat: some say the X100 AF is as fast as any m4/3; others claim it’s faster; others say it’s good but not excellent. So a lot of claims and counterclaims will have to be verified over time.
Every product development has budgets and certain features are given priority over others. I think when the Fuji X cameras and system was developed, the sensors and the lens quality was given high priority, and the AF system was compromised. No company does everything equally well to a high standard. You have to accept some compromises.
Also, companies don’t just “figure things out” and equal what the competition is doing. It takes research and development and finances to meet that. m4/3 didn’t just figure out how to do contrast AF. It took time and effort. Panasonic had been working on CDAF for several years. That dedication pays off eventually. Up until the E-P3, Olympus’s AF was not anything to boast about. It took them 2-3 years to get it right. Fuji, Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, whoever else, will have to put in the same effort and finances themselves.
Samyang have an 8mm f/2.8 fisheye (12mm equiv.) for Fuji X mount.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/876963-REG/Samyang_sy28fe8mbk_fx_8mm_f_2_8_Fish_eye_Lens.html
http://www.adorama.com/SY28FE8BKFX.html
I’m not a fisheye lens fan, so haven’t looked for any reviews on it. But I’m sure there are some out there in the blogosphere.
ISO…you have all valid points…and I concur…but it is 2013 and these companies have ALL been making AF cameras for years. Fuji took a little break from their pro line…but ..still…(hey ..it sounds easy to me…but I do not know the difficulties…I do know that people have NO IDEA what went into one of my photos sometimes…so I can at least understand..that I do not understand).
Seems like Nikon nailed it immediately …which I would expect…but then you take the biggest camera company in the world, Canon…and their mirrorless offering is pathetically slow to focus…now that had to just be cheapness or not wanting to compete with their DSLR’s…because ..I think we all know that Canon could certainly make a super fast focusing mirrorless camera…one that should beat all others..but they did not???
It is all kind of confusing and baffling. So for now..I will keep my GX1 and OMD and my ten MFT lenses and shoot on…the future can only get brighter!!!!!
Bob B., I think the challenge for all the mirrorless camera makers is to have viable, complete systems where AF (both speed and accuracy) is no longer a talking point but just works as expected. m4/3 AF is already at high levels but it needs to improve tracking AF.
On your other points:
Fuji: I’m in the wait and see camp when it comes to Fuji X ILC in 2013. The lenses that get my interest are the 10-24mm f/4 OIS, 23mm f/1.4 and 56 f/1.4. That would cover me for most of the photography I want to do. None of these have been announced yet, but they are on the roadmap for 2013 along with a few others. X100S has a lot of new tech and firmware features that many are wishing/waiting to see in the X-Pro and X-E cameras.
Canon: Excellent PDAF in their enthusiast and pro level DSLRs (I think you also have a 5D Mk III?) but their CDAF is nowhere near as good. Their hybrid AF didn’t turn out good at all. There is no doubt that there is some deliberate crippling going on to reduce interest for mirrorless and protect their DSLR lines.
Nikon: The “1” system has the best AF speed of all the mirrorless systems so far. Nikon got the phase detect on sensor AF to work and perform at high levels. The much smaller sensor size (1″) helps in this regard. Will be interesting to see if AF is equally as good on the Coolpix A with its APS-C sized sensor. Like Canon, Nikon’s mirrorless also seems half-hearted. I wouldn’t be surprised if both Nikon 1 and Canon EOS M are abandoned.
m4/3: Where’s my RF styled camera with integrated EVF? Oh, yeah. Still not happening. Maybe in 2025.
WOW…intelligent feedback…how refreshing…
I am still at a loss as to why neither Olympus or Pany has not produced a rangefinder-style camera. i can live with out it…there are just so many great cameras right now, but is a little odd…
So many have been asking for it since the appearance of the GF-1….seems like a no-brainer…I must be missing something obvious as to why it has not become a reality….
10/10 go to the top of the class
No interest for me either. Missed opportunity.
Since Oly will be launching “high-end” cameras shortly after this EP5 I think that this camera will just be a modest upgrade from the EP3 (camera body cap will be $39 additional! :-)).. Oly can’t include anything too exciting as that will be what is offered on the new “pro” camera(s). I can’t imagine what will reall distinguish this camera from the EPL5? An included VF would have been the perfect opportunity to clearly define the EP line….
…but that would be logical :-p
Too true, very little to distinguish all the pen range.
Really disappointed. It would have to be really really something special compared to the E-PL5. IMO, the E-M5 goodies alone wouldn’t suffice.
Crossing fingers that GX2 would have EVF.
I’d really like to know the specs & the facts before I get disappointed.
Psssssssstttttttt….”improve Fuji AF”….best hope!
Olympus refuses to listen, ignores the competition, and has no clue about what will sell. The PEN line in its current state is barely competitive and will now have again (like the E-P3) have an overpriced flagship, that does not meet customer requirements.
Olympus, with such a subborn, clueless strategy, you are bound to fail.
Bob, indeed. In the end too many models, and marketing dictates clumsy choices. I also agree with Yun that the last hope is Panny.
OTH it’s true that the E-M5 is not big, but sharp angles of the hump are v. bad for pockets.
Just look around you: the NEX 6 and X-E1 can be had for 800 $, and they are certainly not inferior cameras. All that m4/3 has is a much wider lens selection, and IBIS.
So I am not worried for the present, but for the future. This is a cutthroat competition with world sales plummeting. Make a marketing mistake, and you’ll be bought out. In fact Oly might end as a subdivision of Sony, and stop making bodies if their sales are unconvincing.
Thankfully the E-M5 was a success, but no amount of retro is going to save their skins.
Very true!
I just hope Sony will keep compatibility with M4/3 lenses.
Don’t care about Olympus bollocks…
IMO the center-viewfinder design is much more widely accepted than the faux-RF, regardless of what we enthusiasts prefer. Fuji’s X system cameras are hardly hot sellers and Sony probably sells ten NEX 3 and 5 clones for every NEX 6 or 7.
I agree that a m4/3 model equipped with a corner VF would be nice to have as an option, but perhaps you are overestimating its contribution to the success of the system.
Olympus with their FT range always had very well featured models even lower down the scale with the top models distinguished by build quality and better viewfinders .Sadly this does not seem to be the case with their Pen range they seem to have decided on a feature lottery between models making it tricky to get the feature set you want in one model.It would need to be some very surplussing advantages on the EP5 to make one choose it over the EPL5 especially for those who perhaps have the E-M5 or GH3 and are simply looking for a smaller model to compliment their main mFT body.
Obviously we will have to wait and see if they have managed to add features that distinguish it from the rest of the range { 5-axis IS , build quality ,advanced LCD etc.Unfortunately I was also one hoping for an in built EVF. Oh well maybe next time
no evf? on a $1000 camera?
this move will put olympus back into the financial hole that the EM5 dug them out of.
olympus would have been better off to scrap the EP model like they originally said they would, instead of releasing this garbage. with the great fuji’s out there and the good nex system, you would think they had learned how to give people what they want, but clearly they didnt.
it becomes reasonable to think that the EM5 was a mistake camera, something that will never be duplicated or improved upon by the likes of the idiots at olympus.
If Nikon can do it why can’t Olympus?
No View Finder? in spite of that NEX has it?
veeeeeeeeeeery disapointed.
I won’t buy. I” wait for new OM-D or Panasonic GX2
Hi admin,
I know you like to slowly release info but what else hve you got on this $1000 camera with no evf? Please!
I don’t get it. If this turns out to be true, this is a really bad move.
First of all I thought Olympus was trimming the fat from their camera line and that’s exactly why the E-P3 passed on while the Pen Lite and Mini updated. The OM-D with viewfinder having taken the place of the flagship.
None the less rumors of a new, higher end Pen sounded good if squeezed into into the line both feature and price wise.
I they’re to do it successfully there are 2 essentials.
1) Needs to be noticeably expensive then the OM-D
2) Must contain a damn viewfinder.
I figured Olympus would drop the prices on the current pens by about a $100 (pricing them where they should have been from
day 1) and fit a viewfinder equipped E-P5 in at $799-899.
That’s the only way fattening the yet line again makes any sense at all.
I don’t see anyone in 2013 buying a $1000 viewfinderless, mirrorless camera there are already so many options with a viewfinder in the price range.
No edit option and 3 typos:
IF they’re to do it successfully there are 2 essentials.
1) Needs to be noticeably LESS expensive then the OM-D
2) Must contain a damn viewfinder.
I don’t see anyone in 2013 buying a $1000 viewfinderless, mirrorless camera WHEN there are already so many options with a viewfinder in the price range.
Here’s what i want in the new E-P5:
I want an exact copy of the E-P3 with the E-PL5 sensor and the OM-D IBIS.
$1000 please……
I´m very shure, that a new olymus camera in an classic design with viewfinder will come. perhaps it is not the new pen, perhaps it will be another line. olympus testet it. may be, that we must wait a little longer
klaus beermann
No viewfinder, NO SALE! Come on Olympus, what is wrong with you!? This is a huge disappointment. I’ll have to turn elseware and maybe even away from m43–which stinks.
I will give you a idea;…. OM-D 😛
Lol, you guy just dont get it do you?
The price is totally justified because:
1. You can now download android apps which is really useful.
2. You can shoot fake 3D with any lens. Really cool.
3. You can control it by voice. Also it talks to you when you look bored.
4. Its bigger than the PL5. Bigger -> more expensive.
5. It got legs.
Who cares? Just Gimme a 12-50 2.8!!!
Right said Fred!
I’ll take a 12-60mm. 😉
If the rumor is true, it´s an easy decision to buy a PL5 then.
Man the price asked for this camera is ridiculously high, come on what a bad joke! Who on earth will give 1000euro for this kit, come on Oly stop the robbery
so, we get an e-Px sized e-PL5? that is so uninspiring, boring and for a $1000 it makes very little marketing sense? If it is targeted at women, why would they want a larger camera with the same features?
In 2006 I owned an Olympus C-70 compact. It was about the size of the PENs, 8Mp and shot RAW, but the really excellent feature about it was it had a bloody hole drilled through it so you look through to take the photo! How did that “technology” drop from the minds of the technicians and R&D wonks, in only what 7 years? When it died out I had to buy a Canon G10 to replace it, there wasn’t a Olympus option, the G10 stunk. It looked awesome and had great design and took the softest images that looked wonderful on their LCD back, until you got back home … The PEN line was great news, but lacked any OVF or EVF. It seemed that was simply a technology wait for the right level of EVF performance. But?! We’ve arrived to that aspect level. So, what went wrong Olympus? While trying to bankrupt your corporation, did everyone just go into stupid mode … if Fuji can do it, an Sony can do it, then Olympus should wake up design a world market PEN, not some inward, Nippon-targeted market design!
“so, we get an e-Px sized e-PL5?”
In my opinion, exactly that´s the reason why the P3 failed on the market. PL3 was cheaper, faster, lighter, more handy and had the swivel display.
I don’t understand most of these Panasonic and Olympus products. So from Olympus with 1000 usd you could get Omd or EP5 that both have bad ergonomics and small but quite good sensor.
But with same money you could get something like Nikon d7000 which has bigger and better sensor, sharper and brighter (at bright environments) superfast viewfinder, better ergonomics, more options for good glass, better battery life etc. And d7000 fits your camera bag just like the OM-D M5.
Actually even Nikon d3100 which is less than half of the price of EP5, would beat it. Both are compact system cameras but not pocketable, while Nikon still has superior viewfinder, sensor pretty much par and better ergonomics, glass etc.
I can see micro four thirds cameras competetive only if they would be a lot cheaper. Models without EVF should have price of better compact camera and EVF-models should be at beginner dslr price point. At least for the EVF is always complete turn off.
It is the combination of IQ and the toal size and weight of the system. For quite a few people m43s is just right and for quite a few it is not. Not for you it seems but it is very important to me. I have used the D7000 and the difference is big, certainly when I want to take a couple of good lenses with me.
Informed users who buy into mirrorless know what they have bought into. They realised and accepted the compromises but also the many advantages. Some models of DSLR will always appear better value and a better product than a mirrorless ILC at the same price point, and in many cases, they are. But a complete mirrorless kit will almost always be smaller and lighter than a comparable DSLR kit. For many users, this is more important than the one and two percent differences and the arguably better value for money that DSLRs offer. Also, there is no reason why one cannot use both DSLR and mirrorless if it suits their purposes. They are in competition but they can also be complementary.
I think size it’s quite different:
http://camerasize.com/compare/#382,317
the small micro 4/3 don’t fit in your camera bag, they fit in every bag
I disagree on “better ergonomics.” The E-PL2 was (is) a joy to hold, certainly better than any DSLR just because it was so light, with a perfectly sized grip. There’s no reason the EP5 coulnd’t emulate that.
if the kit lens is 12-50mm, $1000 makes sense.
My broken fuji S5000 telezoom had the view finder, my friend told me it´s not optical.
This sounds about right. The E-P3 list price on Olympus’ website is $899 (“on-sale” now for $825, though can be had at Amazon and others for $550).
Olympus must have some sales figures that prove majority of their customers are of the newer generation that perceive viewfinders as dinosaur technology. The inclusion of an add-on external VF is merely to keep the oldies happy to open their wallets as well.
Have we forgotten when the digital point-and-shoot cameras first came out that people were entranced by the fact that “you don’t have to look through a stupid viewfinder anymore!”? That same generation is now dropping major cash on iPhones and iPads and using them just as they did their first digital point-and-shoots, and you don’t hear them groaning about the absent viewfinder. Olympus obviously wants some of that Apple money, and it is plainly obvious that high-density super-beautiful retina screens, NOT viewfinders, are what sell devices.
When the E-P3 came out, it’s main selling points were the vastly improved display and focus speed. I guess we shouldn’t expect any different of the E-P5.
I predict the E-P5 to have a big, beautiful, bright full-featured touch display with at least 1.4K dots, and hybrid focus that will essentially be the prototype of the upcoming successor to the OM-D.
This is insane. How long do they expect us to put up with these shenanigans! The XE-1 and the Nex 7 have EVF’s. This is absurd!
Wow, just Wow! I’m amazed at how many Oly fans there are here that bitch about Oly, then turn around and buy their products. It’s inconceivable, inconsolable, idiotic and the very definition of insanity – repeating the same behavior over and over again and expecting different results……
That is because we like their well made products and they are much more interesting then Cannon and Nikon combined. Its the results and the use that makes Olympus cameras good. They are not a spec value brand so go use you Casio.
No viewfinder. 1000 dollar makes you wonder what DOES justify this pricepoint.
Naturle new EVF, a VF4,…..LOL or maybe a VF5.
Am I the only one to notice that the Rumor says ” NO ELECTRONIC VIEWFINDER”? I may be grasping for any kind of hope, but no EVF, does no equal to no VF.
dream on!
uh-thats a nice dream- i would love a optical vf in the style of the fuji X20- and the option to add the VF-2 when i like to have the advantages of E-VF when i need them…
Still, i think thats not the way there going- my biggest hope at the moment ist, that Oly is spreading fake rumors-to create a positiv surprise when the E-P5 is presented 😉
And now some are putting their hopes on Panasonic. Gluttons for punishment. 🙂
+1
$1000 body plus kit lens….Could it be a new kit lens? I wonder….
…I am losing count…that would be five kit zooms…yes? LOL!
If the rumors are correct, then I feel Olympus has let down Joe Public. I can’t beleive they are not aware that Joe Public has been asking for a Pen camera with a built in viewfinder for sometime. If they have totally ignore the wishes of Joe Public and decide to go there own way, as they think they no best, then I can only put it down to stubbiness, and another word for that is pride, and you know what happens to people that have pride, it comes before a fall.
One feature i really miss is the infra red sensor. Remote triggering the shutter with a small remote was very handy on trips. Bought a vivitar remote but its bulky and uses up the hot shoe(unless you want it hanging around).
lol at you guys who thought/were hoping for a built-in viewfinder in the EP-5 (even more to the ones that were also hoping weathersealing or the E-M5’s IBIS)! I mean come on, don’t you think that would eat into E-M5/upcoming E-Mx sales? There has to be SOME distinction between the product lines. Plus, what would Olympus do with the VF2/VF3 detachable viewfinder? Common sense seen a mile away.
Your logic is flawed and your argument is weak. An E-P5 would not eat sale from the EM5, there would be plenty of features to distinguish them: weather-sealing, IBIS, modularity, form factor, etc…You’re just making excuses to feel comfortable with your choice of camera. An E-P5 would fill a pretty obvious gap that exists between the PL5 and OMD, a void which Sony and Fuji are exploiting freely. Even if you were right and the E-P5 does eat sales from OMD, so what, that money ends up in Oly’s pocket anyway, and even then there’s a big possibility that Oly will come up with a Pro OMD, I bet many current OMD user wold upgrade, and EVEN THEN, by the time all these new camera come out the OMD would already be obsolete for the most part, so where’s the damage ?
Olympus have repeatedly fckd up in the past, that’s an unavoidable reality, and they have done it again, not only are they loosing consumers to Sony and Fuji, they’re gonna loose all their existing consumers who were waiting for this camera, be it to Pany, Sony or Fuji. There’s no excuse for pricing this warmed up E-P3 at $1000, just like there was no excuse for the price of the E5 over the E3, and the price of the E-P3 over all the other cameras. I wasted 2+ years waiting for Oly to come up with the most obvious of upgrades while there were plenty of options available, settling for sub-par IQ in hopes that they would improve their line up…should’ve learned from 4/3 users: Never wait for Oly.
Why did they delay the E-p5 for soooo long after the E-P3 ? what was it all for ? just an E-P3 with OMD sensor ? what a load of BS. I really hope Oly is playing tricks on rumors but if so, this mark a bad precedent for them as a company (no surprising from them actually).
I love m4/3 as a system enviroment but at this rate I’ll wait for Pany or maybe Fuji’s next XE-2, Oly is getting annoying.
no VF?
this kind of narrow thinking will see more folks switch to companies that have VF, like Panny and Sony.
Although I’m still waiting for the refurb price drops on the epl5 I can’t image this cam will retail well. It could flop.
Eventually ALL ILCs will have EVFs or laughed at…I bet Oly, even 15 yrs from now, will be releasing the e-pm15 without an EVF and using the same sensor as the e-pm2.
surely no-one was hoping for all 3 things you listed. But surely it has to have one of those features – or else it is simply an EPL5, but your paying a hell of a lot more for an extra control dial and a button or two !?
That was meant as reply to TOM – (Bloody reply buttons)
No built-in EVF? Oh well. Another camera I won’t be buying, then.
Admin,..I wonder are they [Olympus/Panasonic] people would ever read this blog site just to hear and listen our complaint and idea,.?
Coz I believe this blog contributed a lots of bright idea and positive complaint,.and many people around the world are reading this blog too,..
Even if they did they don’t care, if so they would’ve have release a Nex 6 or XE-1 equivalent years ago. The very first thing that people asled for after the E-P1 was announced was an EVF, the G1 had it, they’ve had the technology to do this for years, somehow they’re are just unwilling.
No viewfinder = no go.
Was looking for an OMD with viewfinder on the left as opposed to middle – far more ergonomic for me.
Oh well…
No built-in VF…???
So what’s the point of having a smaller sensor than the competitors if they can’t even fit a viewfinder?
I would actually expect a portrait orientation VF (just like the original PEN-F). That would be in-keeping with the spirit of innovation that Olympus (used to) have.
Disappointing, to say the least.
Well I am too very disappointed.Iam expecting it will have very sexy vintage design. That’s what we pay for. Thank you Iam not interested.I do not know why but with every new oly product I fill they weight design too heigh.
I know I’m in a minority here, but I’m not concerned by the lack of an integrated EVF. I already have a VF-2 so as long as that still works on the E-P5, I’m satisfied. What would turn me off of the E-P5 is if it accepts only the rumored new detachable EVF and is incompatible with the VF-2. I also prefer that the E-P5 NOT have a tilting or articulated LCD. I have no need for such a feature, which is prone to damage and makes the body more bulky. Basically, all I’m looking for is an E-P3 with the improved OMD sensor. I can even live without the 5 axis IBIS.
$1000 is more than I’m willing to pay for an E-P5, but I’m happy to wait for the price to drop. If the majority of the comments here are any indication, maybe sales won’t be great and Olympus will end up discounting it heavily as happened with the E-P3. If so, my oddball preferences could turn out to be an advantage. At least I hope so.
Sounds like you want an E-PM2.
– You don’t want tilt lcd, so no PL5, check
– You want OMD sensor, check
– you don’t want 5 axis IBIS, check
– You need compatibility with VF-2, check
– you want it cheap, check
Why come here and make noise against an EVF E-P5 when all you want is an PMP2 ? is the E-P3 THAT important for you ? are you willing to waste $4-500+ for an otherwise 99% similar camera that fulfills pretty much the same functions. At least with an EVF the E-P5 would distinguish itself, your reasoning makes no sense.
E-P’s have more dials and buttons than E-PL’s, and E-PL’s have more dials and buttons than E-PM’s. E-P’s are also larger; European men seem to have trouble holding on to the E-PM’s…
If the E-P5 with kit lens is $900, that’s $300 more than the E-PL5 with kit lens. Maybe it’s worth the extra dials and buttons and better EVF and better grip? And maybe more “scenes” and maybe better JPEG and maybe better IBIS? It’s still cheaper than the E-M5.
Not to me, but I can see it mattering to some. I’ll wait for the E-M5 or the E-PL5 to be discontinued, and pick them up from the bargain bin. Actually, I’ll probably wait for their _successors_ to come and go before I consider another body. I love my E-PM1! 🙂
Nope, I don’t want an E-PM2. I don’t like the lack of physical controls and I really dislike the 16:9 aspect ratio of the LCD. I agree that $1000 is too much for an E-P5 w/o EVF, but time will take care of that, and I don’t mind waiting a year or more for the price to drop. But only if the E-P5 turns out to be the camera I want. At the moment, it’s only a rumor.
Who says that these rumors are true? To talk about rumors is only a waste of time 😉
Noooooooo!!! It can’t be!
dream on…
You’re talking about rumours…
I’m actually more interested in what Oly defines as a “kit lens” for this camera. I suppose they could just throw on the tried-and-tested 14-42. Makes sense, I suppose, and cheaper for sure. But if you recall, the 12-50 was announced in advance of the E-M5, and this might be an interesting way to get the new lens out there. It would give Oly insight into the interest in this lens prior to the new bodies – whatever they are -that are supposed to be announced later this year.
Nonsense! I’ve been hanging on to my E-P3 waiting for the replacement with viewfinder integrated, interest level just dropped to 0%
Mitch, I had an EP3 and loved it, but the Em5 did it for me. I know the form is different, but it’s just fantastic. Same size as EP3, way better sensor, better IS, better dials, weather resistant, EVF, it goes on and on.
I too prefer the look of the pens, but if Oly doesn’t put and EVF in one, the OM-D is just too good to overlook.
@Neonart, your adaptive attitude feels like a fresh wind between all the stubborn who cant accept anything else then an rf shaped evf camera.
The E-P3 replacement with a viewfinder is called Fuji X-E1. ;))
When it is released it will have.
5 way ibis
Worlds best EVF.
CDAF and PDAF all at world best speed and accuracy.
A tilt screen (16.9).
All GH3 movie modes.
rangefinder style.
HDR in camera.
Tripod mount under sensor.
WiFi everything. with computer/Mobile operation and use.
GPS.
And use the HLD6 (with a little plastic $200 add on).
Then WE HAVE A PROBLEM. What will we have to complain about? Oh I know, its to small for PDAF lenses.
BUT! We will be so relieved we will all rush out and buy one.
No PDAF lenses at givaway prices?
I truly hope so!
This olympus decision seems plain stupid and will probably be a commercial disaster.
There is a change of succes if the suggested price includes the new VF-5.
An OVF instead of EVF is a grasping dream I suspect? It doesn’t make sense, it would be a mixed OEVF if anything and that is really dreaming at this point.
I suspect we are entering the fallout of the scandal and money woes. Sony has pumped money into Olympus, only in self-interest. Do they want to see mFT variant NEX-competition models? No. Money is far different than sharing technology, it’s just them grabbing more market profits, not some Renaissance of mirrorless tech design.
Originally, Olympus was exploring EPSONs flat film designs for their EVFs. Is that in Sony’s sharholders best interest? I doubt it. Would it be to the point that something is scrapped for sake of replacing those parts in the future with Sony EVF tech?
While that may penalise the customer base and offer something not as good, and delayed in delivery date, it sounds like real world business practice.
idiots a vf in the corner position is the way to go so of course they are clueless
my em5 has nose prints on the lcd …..idiots
the x100 the xe1 the nex 6 nex 7 all wildly popular ,,,,,idiots
As a left eye-dominant photographer, corner VFs have my nose pressed against the LCD as well. Idiot.
In that case what you want is a real pen-f. Being a portrait mode camera it can be turned 90 degrees left or right to landscape mode. Thus to avoid a right hand nose, a left hand nose, and suit a right handed person, a left handed person, a right eyed person or a left eyed person.
Very flexible has superb lenses and is simplicity to use.
1000 bucks is too much for a pen. and no evf? not interested!
how excruciatingly frustrating to be waiting for the e-p5, knowing it’s likely to disappoint like the e-p3 did.
my current G3 takes fine pictures but it’s nothing special in the looks and feel department so I’m really missing my e-p2. If the p3 didn’t absolutely suck at ISO 1600 I might consider it as a backup.
Why do we need this E-P5? Does it have any feature that is unavailable or significantly better/different from existing Olympus cameras?
Typical reasons and responses given by the hidden agenda anti-MFT_RF_I-EVF_TLC brigade to deny the majority of m4/3 users an RF styled camera body with integrated viewfinder in the top left corner:
Anti-I-EVF_TLC brigade: “There is no space for an integrated EVF”
Counter: http://camerasize.com/compact/#155,183,375,da,b
Anti-I-EVF_TLC brigade: “It would make the camera too heavy and bulky”
Counter: http://camerasize.com/compact/#155,183,375,da,b
Anti-I-EVF_TLC brigade: “I prefer removable EVF to keep the camera light and less bulky”
Counter: Why buy an external EVF, if you are seldom going to use it? When you do use it, the camera will be taller, bulkier and uglier than the integrated version.
Anti-I-EVF_TLC brigade: “It would make the camera too expensive”
Counter: http://www.adorama.com/ISONEX6LBB.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0096W1OKS/ref=dp_olp_new/175-7326188-3908246?ie=UTF8&condition=new
http://www.camerapro.com.au/fujifilm-x-e1-silver-body-only-australian-stock.html
http://www.camerapro.com.au/fujifilm-x-e1-black-w-xf-lens-35mm-f1-4-53mm-equiv.html
http://www.discountcameras.com.au/discountcameras/view_product/47331
Anti-I-EVF_TLC brigade: “It would cannibalise sales of OM-D, G and GH”
Counter: Cannibalise your own products with your own products, rather than somebody else cannibalising them with their products. Profits go back to the company and its employees, regardless of which products made them. Sales are being lost every day by upgraders holding-off from purchasing. Users and therefore future profits will be lost to other camera systems because of refusal to provide the products users require.
Anti-I-EVF_TLC brigade: “I don’t want to pay extra for EVF”
Counter: You don’t want to pay for an integrated EVF but pay for an external one instead, that you “leave behind when you don’t need it”. They got your money anyway, and by “leaving it behind”, you paid for thin air. Great economics. Another thing, with m4/3 you pay extra even without an I-EVF!
Anti-I-EVF_TLC brigade: “Get the OM-D or G5/GH3 then!”
Counter: This is a desperate, low-life comment from those who hide in dark corners, with a sharpened knife to attack those who would oppose them, full of hatred and vitriol towards those who would choose a different product to them. Their agenda is assimilation. You must be like one of them. They must rule and your must become their subjects.
Every single one of the anti-MFT_RF_I-EVF_TLC brigade’s arguments is easily defeated. They are the straw men of straw men of straw men. All users who want an m4/3 RF styled body with integrated EVF in the top left corner must at every opportunity counter and defeat this arrogant and ignorant hidden agenda brigade who foist their camera preferences on others while denying us of so simple and timeless a camera design as the rangefinder style with integrated viewfinder in the top left corner. This is a battle that we will win. One way or another. We will win.
E-P3: Height 69.1mm Weight 369g (no I-EVF)
GX1: Height 67.8mm Weight 318g (no I-EVF)
NEX-6: Height 66.9mm Weight 345g (with I-EVF)
Excuses, excuses, excuses.
http://camerasize.com/compact/#155,183,375,da,b
You are right but these are no arguments for the PEN brigades. PEN is a Productline without EVF. The E-P5 is for existing Customers and new point and shoot customers like women. If you have a PEN xy with VF2, you probably want an new model without i-EVF.
There is a smal market for Rangefinder-Style beside the SLR-Style of OMD and G, GH Lines.
J&H, thanks for reading and replying. But I have to counter your statements as well. All in good manner, of course.
“PEN is a Productline without EVF”
This sounds very conclusive. Set in stone. A proclamation even. “This is what we’ve decided the product is and will be and we’re not going to deviate from that”. To not even consider a design modification in spite of strong user feedback and sentiment shows arrogance and ignorance on the part of the company (and those who justify their decisions), especially from one in deep financial troubles.
“The E-P5 is for existing Customers…”
Who are these existing Customers? People who bought an E-P1/2/3 only? Because it’s these users, especially from the first generation E-P1/2 who have waited for the i-EVF model for years. Maybe existing customers want something more than a warm over of a warm over of a warm over. Perhaps I speak for others here as well, but it’s nice to have a freshly prepared meal for a change on new tableware and cutlery.
“…and new point and shoot customers like women.”
Are these the type of users that would pay $1000 for a mirrorless ILC with kit-lens? Would not the PEN Mini and PEN Lite with their less complicated feature sets and lower prices suit these users better? Conversely, if a certain subsection of P&S upgraders bought into the top model PEN to get more involved in the image taking process and the enthusiast feature set and high asking price is not a barrier, would not an integrated EVF be a welcome, even necessary feature, if even for the sake of matching what the competition is able to do at the same price point?
“If you have a PEN xy with VF2, you probably want an new model without i-EVF”
This is a strange statement. The reasoning behind it seems more on the emotional side than it is on the practical. Why would someone not want something that can be offered for little or no extra cost (I and others have proven this with several irrefutable examples from both Fuji and Sony already (also add Nikon 1 V into that distinguished group of RF styled mirrorless ILCs with an I-EVF)) just because they own an accessory that fulfilled that task years ago but now can be fulfilled integrated in the camera and can be justified both technically and economically. Does it make one feel remorseful, full of rage and angst over their $200–250 “investment” in an accessory EVF, if it was to be made mostly redundant because of an integrated solution? If so, then I fear for such people in such a challenging and troubled world, who cannot take such a small and insignificant cost in the greater scheme of things as an equally small and insignificant loss.
“There is a small [sic] market for Rangefinder-Style besides [sic] the SLR-Style of OMD and G, GH Lines.”
A market being small does not and should not necessarily negate the validity of a product being developed, manufactured and marketed to the right people. You make a product that enthusiasts want and will buy and they bring in other users with them. Enthusiasts act as “free” marketing for manufacturers when they can recommend their friends, family and colleagues what cameras to buy based on real user experience. If you don’t develop and make products that enthusiasts want and will buy, you lose them as customers to your competitors, as well as the potential many other users they might have brought in with them.
Also, I challenge the notion that the RF design style is now relegated to niche status in today’s digital market. There was a time when the RF style was the norm, rather than the exception; and with the slowly increasing adoption and popularity of mirrorless ILCs and the use of small prime lenses, it makes a lot of sense in both practical and aesthetic terms.
A key point I want to make in this whole drama of an integrated EVF versus an accessory EVF and whether they should or whether they shouldn’t is this:
If the EVF is integrated, it is always available whether you use it all the time, sometimes or very seldom. There is not a worry as it is with an accessory EVF that you left it at home or in the car, or that you might have dropped and lost it somewhere, or that it might become dislodged. Also, one can still make use of their accessory EVF as long as the camera’s accessory port and hotshoe continues to supports it.
And again, I have proven conclusively that an integrated solution does not make the camera any more expensive than what Olympus and Panasonic already dare to charge for their i-EVFless cameras over the years. And it does not necessarily make the camera any more or significantly larger to have an integrated solution. It may necessitate a redesign and relocation of the top plate components like the pop-up flash and hotshoe, but it is certainly achievable if the motivation is there to do so.
You will often see those from the anti-MFT_RF_I-EVF_TLC brigade throw in the red herring of the Fuji X-E1 to falsely represent the implication of resultant camera size if a m4/3 RF style camera integrates an EVF. The X-E1, while not being a large camera, was not designed to be a small camera either. Controls and dials are larger and buttons are more spaced apart on the back panel. The camera that should be compared to a m4/3 solution is the Sony NEX-6, as the feature sets and target audiences share more similarities.
I await the eventual E-P5 specifications with interest. But without an i-EVF, I will not be considering it for my next upgrade.
ISO, I thought the majority of writers wanted an EVF . Most of the complaints were that Oly seems to think that holding a camera out in front of oneself while squinting to see an image on a screen in daylight and looking like a dork is completely normal and expected.
After all is not the 5 way stabiliser to prevent camera dip when pressing a shutter at full arms length?
Good comment though.
JimD, see my post above in reply to J&H for more of my thoughts on the EVF issue.
I think composing by way of a tilting/articulating display is okay, providing that the ability to compose with an integrated viewfinder is also there. Having one should not rule out the other, especially in enthusiast level cameras around $1000.
I’m often in harsh sunlight conditions and to rely soley on the back display is not practical. There is also a principle at stake here. Why should m4/3 users who choose an RF style camera do without an integrated EVF, when competitors have no trouble integrating one in their cameras at a similar price point?
It’s akin to considering two brands of car in the same price range. One car has airconditioning, cruise control, Bluetooth etc. plus all the safety features as standard, while the other car provides some of those features only as options at extra costs. Your preference is to stay with the brand you currently drive and are used to driving. However, they are stuck in the past and force you to pay extra for features that are now considered standard. It’s only when they lose the enthusiasm of the motoring press and the confidence of the buying public, and a significant number of sales are lost do they come back to the table and start to make up for the errors of their greedy, incompetent ways.
A tilt screen is almost a requirement nowadays. I would not buy a camera without one.
A Viewfinder, OVF or EVF is not ‘almost’ a requirement it is a fundamental. After purchasing an EP2 (with the EVF) I will never buy a camera without a built in viewfinder. Sunny Sydney and no viewfinder do not mix. Having said that the EP2 viewfinder does have the ability to lift up which I find very useful. While I am happy with the EM5, I would like an RF style body.
So my order is for a tilt screen and built in EVF which is also tiltable and in RF style. Until that happens I am unlikely to be giving Oly any money for a body.
If I needed one I’d have already bought the EPL5 which looks like a wonderful little machine until one needs EVF.
What Olympus needs is a model with the E-PL2 or E-P3 form factor–a REAL 3″ LCD, IBIS that works, built-in-flash–updated to the newer 16mp sensor, and priced at about $500.
Until last week, for the past year I shot with the E-PL1 and E-PM1, eyeing upgrading to a new PEN with the newer 16mp sensor. E-PM2–nope, the LCD is still small and it’s stuck at $500, not budging. Is the IBIS any better than on the E-PM1, which was flaky as heck? E-PL5–nope, same small LCD and it’s $600. The E-M5 is everything I want, but it’s $1000.
I gave up and got a Sony NEX-C3 for $330 WITH 18-55mm LENS that addresses much of that. It has a 16mp sensor that’s probably even a tad better than the E-M5 one, image stabilization works far more reliably than the E-PM1 IBIS (on the lenses that have it), and its LCD, while it still deals with 16:9 aspect ratio mismatches LCD vs image, doesn’t have it anywhere near as badly. Also, I don’t have to upgrade Lightroom 3.5 to LR4 to process the RAW files, further stretching the price gulf between the $500 E-PM2 (now $600 by the time you include software) and the $330 NEX-C3. Too bad, I like the Olympus feature-set, ergonomics, and especially its JPEG processing, and lens selection.
A big part of the problem is that Olympus stuck with the old 12mp sensor for so long, so now you have to pay top dollar for better image quality if you want to stay in their camp, while you can get it on the cheap with Sony models that are a generation or two old but still way ahead of the 12mp Olympus models.
A $1000 E-P5 doesn’t help, either.
If they simply shifted the viewfinder from center to left side and somehow shaved down the hump there isn’t much to differentiate it from the OMD. If it’s a left shifted viewfinder OMD then why bother? It will have no viewfinder but will have some other compelling replacement. Built in flash and something else I imagine that would both make it a compelling buy and an upgrade. Oly will need to get some OMD owners to jump ship. I’m afraid the same camera with a different viewfinder orientation won’t do. Plus, if they keep the built in flash there won’t be room for a viewfinder without making the camera bigger.