Jut woke up and there is the leak of the new Panasonic-GX1 at Mobile01 (Update: Pictures have been removed!). Or click on the thumbnails below to see more full size GX1 images.
It looks more like the [shoplink 14828 ebay]Panasonic GF1[/shoplink] than the [shoplink 26385 ebay]Panasonic LC1[/shoplink]. Actually only the grip reminds me a bit the LC1. I hope sooner or later Panasonic or Olympus will also take a look at the competition, like the [shoplink 19929]Fuji X100[/shoplink] or [shoplink 25396]Sony NEX-7[/shoplink]. I mean, after almost three years you can try to do something else or not? 🙂
Anyway, for now we know that the camera will be announced on November 8 in Japan. It will come along a new 1.44k dot external viewfinder (tiltable). It has a 16 Megapixel sensor, 12.800 ISO and a 460k LCD screen (non tiltable). It will have a new processing engine no more JPEG motion recording and be slightly smaller than the GF1. Be sure to be here on 43rumors.com on November 8! I will follow the announcement live and give you all updates you need. And don’t forget to join us on Twitter and Facebook (new fanpage!).
[poll id=”95″]
P.S: Thanks to the 32 people sending me the link to mobile01 from 2am to 6am i the night here at Berlin time. I was sleeping and what woke me up was not a sixth sense for a coming rumor but a REAL earthquake here in the middle of the alps!
467 Responses
That’s it? After all the rumors of it having a professional build and LC1/L1 style body with manual controls this is what we get? It doesn’t even have the drive mode level of the GF1. It looks like it was slapped together at the last minute. I have lost all faith in Panasonic.
Looks OK to me. What did you expect – a G3 with the viewfinder and the flash moved 3 cm in separate directions to make it look more like a rangefinder?
“Slapped together”….that does describe it well.
Nobody but this site rumored that the new GX1 would be LC1 styled. Get your facts right.
Funny to see how people now tend to look at design than rather how it performs.
I blame Steve Jobs for that……rest his soul.
This body and the 12-35..oh yes please. If they test well, it’ll be my first m43 camera.
I’m in the same boat as you. I’ve been coming to this site for maybe over a year now, not having once owned a m4/3 camera and just waiting for the perfect one. I gotta admit, the lack of EVF and the same-resolution screen has me a bit disappointed, as well as the apparent lack of a microphone jack, but provided the price isn’t too high I might make the jump. My other option would be to see if the GF2’s price lowers anymore as a result of this, in which case I might buy that instead. Decisions, decisions…
If the EVF is at least 1.44M in res. I can live with the low-res screen rear LCD. It looks like it has a good grip and comapct size, hotshoe, sufficient physical controls – now if the price is right I’ll take it even tho it’s a bit outgunned by a certain EVF and use the money for lenses.
a
I can see a hotshoe and having the controls on the right side probably means there’s a pop-up flash concealed on the left. It does look practical especially with the grip, but from first glance I don’t see much point in buying this camera over the G3 in terms of physical design. Perhaps this camera is meant as a redesign to replace the GF and G series of cameras?
Probably you should look lower images and see that there’s pop up flash indeed. And no, this camera will NOT replace G series for the reason it does not have EVF.
it looks like a ROBOT rather than camera to me ,…maybe because with the X lens,..Honestly little bit disappointing compare to the Old Panasonic LC1 4/3 system,..Hope GF-7 will exceed our expectation,..But don’t know when?
and people called photorumors crazy when they said it was announced to the press only.
..so may be they ara right about the 12mpx sensor with h.iso performance and very good dr(at least better than g3)…in these days I try the g3 and it’s really a great camera with a great sensor.
I think it’s got more than 1,5 stop iso performance than my epl1.
If the gx1 will be better than g3…it’ll be a great camera.
If you look closely at the dial pad, you see the drive mode has been moved to the bottom where the Fn button was on the GF1 and the Fn is now separate.
And BTW Admin, why are you sleeping on a Friday night? Got important news to cover. Sleep is for the weak.
Because I have a flight to New York City today! 🙂
ADMIN
Can you tell us if this is the same as your rumored GF PRO model or will there be another GF something release?
There will be another GF model. That’s what I heard. But not this year.
Duuuuude huge news. You should make this more prominent. Although it could mean it is just the GF4.
I like it. I think it looks like the best of the current m43 crop. I’m curious to see the quality of the lcd, though, since that of the EP3 is pretty nice. I can see how it is a disappointingly small step forward, but I think it should be the top enthusiast choice at the moment — if only by a small margin. It won’t win a lot of upgrades among current m43 owners, but should capture a big chunk of the new, enthusiast m43 buyers.
looks like a gf1 with an lc1-style grip… nothing special… i was hoping for more rangefinder-like styling and buttons/manual controls ala x100
doesn’t look bad at all but isn’t an reason for me to leave the gf1.. design is nice.. no touchscreen ( i hope ). and bad things are : no mjpeg ( witch is better than avchd) , g3 isn’t sucha good sensor – so not quite Dr or iso upgraded , body looks smaller than gf1… so is not an real upgrade from GF1. i won’t buy it. and i’ll hope GF7 will coming with some serious assets 🙂 or i have to wait for nikon or cannon to join in m43 club .
“g3 isn’t sucha good sensor ” it’s really better than Gf1 sensor…it’s another league …i used the camera for a few days and it’s far superior than my epl1(same sensor of gf1)
on jpegs or raw pics? cos i heard they” improved” ( more milky pics) the jpeg engine on the G3 .. and pics are less noisy .. but after reading a lot of reviews about g3 i cannot see an huge step or, “other league” , from gf1 sensor .. in terms of DR , color depth ( it’s even worst than gf1 ) and iso low light , no more mjpeg codec witch is better than avchd… so why i should left my GF1 and buy the new gx1? … i found no real reason.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/701|0/(brand)/Panasonic/(appareil2)/632|0/(brand2)/Panasonic/(appareil3)/630|0/(brand3)/Panasonic
I only shot raw with noise reduction turn off.
And i can tell you that the difference is huge between Gf1/Epl1 and G3 sensor.
ok. i haven’t an g3 to compare with the gf1 so i approve you . anyway it’s make sense conforming with dxomark iso comparison .. but how about DR and color depth ?
I had a GF1, G1 (still have it) and a G3 and can say the new sensor is far superior to the older 12MP cameras as far as noise goes.
If this does have a new, modern, 12MP sensor then it can be great news as it could mean increased DR and sensitivity.
It brings back a couple of buttons that have been taken away from the G3 which is great, cause I miss those buttons in use.
A large rubber grip is a +++, though it looks a bit weird on that tiny rectangular body.
The buttons seem to be of good quality (if not just nicely painted). The LCD is sunk a bit into the body to offer some protection which is nice.
The flash has a long “foot” which will allow the use of larger lenses (that and the grip).
Lack of integrated EVF is a bummer. I will not buy a camera without one (hated the GF1). I really don’t care where the EVF is placed, as long as it makes ergonomical sense.
I wish Panasonic came up with a camera with two dials. I think the directional arrows could have been integrated on a dial. Come on – having to click the dial to change functions is a (very slight) pain.
I’m interested in seeing what the reviews will say.
Wow, now that is one ugly camera. Looks like they took a bunch of random pieces out of their bins and glued them two a GF1 body without any thought of what the finished camera should look like.
Now that’s what I thought, too. If that’s what’s coming, I’ll better go back to bed for another six months…
Seriously?
The GF1 “successor” has *fewer* manual controls than the GF1? I thought this was supposed to compensate for the dumbing down of the GF2/3.
After all the pent-up consumer demand for a serious enthusiast compact (e.g. the X100 and NEX-7) and all this time to develop one, all Panasonic did was take the GF1 body, slap on a new grip, take away direct drive mode control, and add an “intelligent” auto button that no self-respecting enthusiast would ever touch. Oh, and shiny metal buttons.
Guess I won’t be selling my GF1 anytime soon. Panasonic is getting pretty good at disappointing their customers.
It doesn’t have fewer manual control than the GF1 and it does have a drive mode button. I thinking you are just rushing into madness.
I prefer a lever for the drive mode, like the GF1 has. There can’t be too many dials and levers 🙂
yes me too, this really is important to me to instantly see which mode im in even before turning the camera on.
a button drive mode sucks
They moved the drive mode from a lever –> button push + dial. When you have to go into an onscreen menu to change a setting, that’s a loss of a manual (i.e. physical) control.
it’s ok, but is it really a killer feature to be that disappointed?
The design can’t match NEX 7 !
Overall is doesn’t impress me at all .
Failure to have build in EVF , no OLED screen like EP3 , last resort will be it’s image quality .
If Pana , still can’t impress with the IQ beyond
reasonable point , let’s forget about this lousy stuff .
Fortunately, as the NEX–7 design is hideous. (The camera quality and IQ aren’t, either.)
I like NEX-7 design, but what lens do I put on it if I buy the body? Ok, the Zeiss, but what about other focal lengths? The kit zoom does not have enough reach, I don’t want bazooka sized tele zooms, the only wide is mediocre at best… There’s nothing to rival m4/3’s 24m F1.4 (T1.6), 24mm F2, 50mm F0.95, 50mm F1.4, fast 24-70mm, small 28-84mm and 28-300mm (all 35mm equivalent focal lenghts) and there is nothing on the roadmap telling that there will be similar lenses for NEX in 2012 and 2013. So what’s the point of a great body for which there are no appropriate lenses? Or at least lenses small enough to look OK on a body. Adapted alpha lenses are too big, even those with shorter FL.
As you said, the Zeiss 24mm is quite good, also, the new 50mm/1.8 is very good (and only $300). From the test shots I’ve seen the kit 18-55mm performs pretty well on the NEX-7 (and has the same reach as all the m4/3’s kit zooms). The 18-200mm is a large lens no doubt, but it looks larger in photos then it does in person. I imagine it will balance nicely on the NEX-7. Plus, just yesterday a solid rumor came out that Sony is changing their lens road map to add pancake lenses. Unlike Panasonic it seems Sony listens to their user demands. People wanted an enthusiats rangefinder-like body; a year later Sony made one. People have demanded pancake lenses, now it seems Sony is about to deliver those too.
In the mean time thanks to focus peaking I’ll be perfectly content with manual focus primes. There are tons of great 28mm and 35mm m-mount primes to choose from thanks to the 1.5x crop factor.
In short, yes, Panasonic currently has the best lens line up, but they better get a serious body at sooner rather then later because I don’t think that will be the case much longer.
Meh, save some money on the body, put it into the lenses, that will help IQ more than the sensor upgrade.
Probably what the GF3 should have looked like?
Looks like a more robust, up-to-date GF1 than anything.
I too wish it had a built in EVF like everyone else wanted.
Perhaps there is a GF PRO (GF 7?) down the road, with all the goodies we demand?
Really curious now about Fuji come February…Canon too!
+1
After all of the hubub. Wow. I hope Oly does better with their high-end m43 camera.
Please, can someone release something with two scroll wheels and a flip-out LCD.
I love it – just a serious, no bull-shit replacement for the GF1 🙂
I’m beginning to expect that a ‘pro-sumer’ Panasonic body will be announced with the 12-35 + 35-100…
I like it a lot! Small, stealthy, probably lightweight. If it has the guts to backup the compactness, I’m in. It’s also possible the LVF1 (which I have) might be compatible. I’m not concerned about built-in EVF. I’d rather the space be filled with circuits, e.g., 24p. Looks like no mic input for us video shooters. C’est la vie. Still likin’ it. Let’s roll, baby!
Looking at that makes me proud of having the GF1. Panasonic haven’t done anything on this, the only differences are the grip (I think the idea for a grip was copied off the E-P3 and it’s removable one) and LESS manual controls. They’re losing those who’re looking for a GF1 replacement cause clearly this isn’t one, and they’ve had a long time to bring out one.
If the IQ of this thing isn’t a significant improvement, Panasonic should just stop trying.
They’ve added Full HD.
The interiours are more interesting, however in my opinion the GX3 has got all it needs with respect to the external controls.
A new chipset speeds up AF. Still looking forward to see how large buffer and how many fps. A new sensor might have electronic shutter capability.
I agree with you: GF1 has a much nicer layout.
Panasonic just don’t seem interested in the enthusiast market. They are squandering the early mirrorless lead they had. Strange when the GF1 created so much buzz and now the NEX 7 has been so well received. Another disappointment. I just can’t understand Panasonic. Why not give people what they want for a change. Surely the enthusiasts are the people who buy the most lenses particularly the more expensive ones and an enthusiast model helps make the whole system more desirable.
They believe the enthousiasts go for G3… They are wrong!
You just do insinuate I’m not an enthousiast…
Oh… It is like a flashback to 3 years ago! Everyone dissed the GF1 at the time and were 100% EP1 with its rounded form and classic revival. Now the GF1 is most sought after vintage and EP has ten different tin and plastic versions, including the curves being emulated by the GF2, GF3 and even G3. For me it all depends on spex on the inside now. I wonder if it is a supreme confidence that panasonic has in its automatic everything and picture processing engine or just great lobbying by the department that implements those algorithms to put that iA button so prominently next to the video record button. If a new hack will let us use it to call up our favorite Lua scripts, it would make it really useful. Please let that new VF be compatible with my GF1!
Now the GF1 is most sought after vintage
LOL!
I can get a used one with a one year guarantee in pristine condition for 200 euros. That doesn’t sound like “most sought after” to me.
where from. ive been looking to buy another one
And you fans didn’t think Panasonic couldn’t get anymore lame. LMAO. LOL. Talk about regurgitating the same camera. Yes, Panasonic has learned from the master of regurgitation — Olympus.
According to sonyalpharumors Sony is changing the lens roadmap to include prime pancakes, m43 does not have much time left to release a good rangefinder like body with EVF.
As it stands this GX1 has a bit of a better sensor than the EP3 and worse controls, LCD screen, ad on EVF. What is it’s strength ?
Than nice pancake zoom. Will it be enough to compete with the NEX and PEN series ? My guess is it will depend on price.
1. For enthusiasts who care for controls, EVF and IQ it has some incremental upgrades, if I was in the market for a GF1 or EP3 I would prefer that because of the better sensor. But as I have an EP1 and legacy lenses I am not.
2 For point and shooters it will depend on the price, if it is cheaper than the NEX5n it might stand a chance but knowing Panasonic I fear it will be expensive (I mean the kit with the X lens).
Overall I am disappointed again by the m43 offerings 🙁
+111
I own both an Oly m43 and a NEX. The NEX lens “roadmap” is a joke!
There’s no excuse for the fact the only stills lens released 1.5 generations after the original NEX-3/5 is the 35mm Macro, while 3 new bodies were announced (2 shipping). Having invested in the original NEX ending up with a vastly inferior pair of kit lenses, and with the optional lenses never coming, I certainly regret my choice jumping in when I did.
Meanwhile: The GX1 here looks like a fine camera. I can see one choose the GX1 for its lens or the dial placement over a E-PL3. I personally prefer Oly’s in-body IS, but I know most happy Pana users would disagree.
Right now the GH2, E-P3, and G3 seem to cover the needs of just about everyone, even taking into account the endless combinations of features one expects in a camera. Other than that, it’s most likely an issue of how a camera looks — DSLR-style, retro-style, futuristic, etc.
I really wonder why the G3 isn’t considered more highly than it seems to be, as that seems to be a very fine camera.
Go test out a G3 and you’ll understand why. On paper it looks great, but in person it feels like cheap $250 point and shoot build quality.
I also don’t know what you mean by “the only stills lens released”. They just released two excellent lenses in the Zeiss 24mm/1.8 and the 50mm/1.8.
They’re shipping??
“They just released two excellent lenses”? Every major retailer in the US and Japan tells me that they haven’t started shipping.
So you’re wrong on two accounts: 1) Can’t get a hold of either yet, and 2) You have no way of knowing if they’re “excellent”, or garbage.
You’re arguing over semantics. The point is, the new lenses have been announced, they are up for preorder, and they will ship soon enough. Your google-fu must be very weak; it’s not difficult to find samples taken with each lens. DPR has an entire Zeiss 24mm sample gallery for example. I’ve seen enough from each to know they are quite capable. I thought this was obvious; but I’ll say it anyway: thanks to review sites you don’t have to own them to judge IQ.
I don’t argue semantics; I judge on availability.
If you’re happy with the current state, that’s great! It’s just that best-of web examples of non-existent products don’t excite me as much.
Aesthetic-wise, this is ver disappointing, considering Pana managed to put out a rather handsome looking body with GF3. This just looks like something Pentax would do, a huge letdown. Possible consolations will be the specs. Higher burst speed, cleaner ISO beyond 800, lower shutter lag etc.
original poster deleted all the pictures
I’m stumped.
People spend years bitching that Panasonic won’t release a replacement for the GF1.
Panasonic releases an obvious replacement for the GF1 and people bitch that its too much like the GF1 and doesn’t have an articulated screen and EVF :/
What you say is correct to a degree. When the EP1 and GF1 were introduced everybody was salivating over the design and even though there were complaints about lack of EVF the enthusiasm was there. BUT that was 2 years ago and small EVIL cameras from PanaOly had no competition.
Today there is fierce competition and SONY of all the manufacturers has given us what we were screaming for, Fuji with the upcoming X200 will too (most probably).
Yes the GX1 is better than EP1 and GX1 but now there is the NEX7-X100 even the Nikon 1 which is doing very well (I have to eat my words on that as I was predicting it would be a disaster).
Doesn’t look very weatherproof! I’ve been using an E-P1 for two years and all want extra is better low-light focusing (E-P3 will do that) and weatherproofing. How difficult can it be? Until then the E-P1 stays.
Let’s start with the fact that this camera is said to be competing with NEX-5n and NOT NEX-7 – people should get over it already, it’s done and it won’t change unless Panasonic decides to launch a real NEX-7 competitor.
That said, let’s see…
If what photo rumors said about a new 12MP sensor instead of the G3’s 16MP sensor, this can be promising in several ways. We can expect at least better ISO performance but I hope we can also get better dynamic range, etc.
12MP in m4/3 is something like 20MP in APS-C, like Samsung NX200 and it’s less than the 24MP from NEX-7. I don’t really have all this faith in Panasonic, but they should be able to make a sensor with as good high-ISO as the NEX-7, the NX200 also seems to have a very nice high-ISO.
Where the GX1 can exceed against the NEX-5n:
– dials and controls – sometimes the NEX-5n lack of it is annoying
– better lenses portfolio – Sony, seriously? Try to copy Samsung, there are doing a heck of a job in that department…
– smaller lenses
– it can have better video – I hope the new engine can help with the rolling shutter effect
– touchscreen control – NEX-5n has touchscreen but no touch shutter, it’s almost useless, but it’s good for pin-point focus when necessary.
– I don’t like NEX menu, it’s pretty but it’s not organized in tabs, it’s just a very huge big scroll list and that plus the lack of buttons doesn’t help at all.
But the NEX-5n will win in high-ISO and overall image quality, if Panasonic could just render images like Olympus, it could be a plus. I think that Sony’s EVF will still be better. The pop-up flash from GX1 is better positioned than the NEX-5n because the big lenses from NEX get in the way of the flash, not that this is so important – but standard hot-shoe against Sony’s proprietary flash is always a plus.
The NEX-5n has 10fps, even though the memory buffer can’t sustain 1 sec, it takes 5 frames and then it starts to lag a little. The Canon 1DX can sustain 4 seconds in 12 fps! I wished the NEX-5n had the 40fps/20fps like the GH2/G3 electronic shutter burst for smaller images. Will the GX1 have something like peaking mode or like Ricoh’s black and white focusing? The NEX-5n has tiltable screen, I personally prefer the swivel one, but tiltable is better than fixed screen.
Aesthetically speaking, it doesn’t seem as good as the L1/LC1, it seems a little rustic, I don’t know, not very polished looking. But it’s the kind of thing that you wished it was better, but I personally don’t really mind that much about it.
If the GF3 X-lens kit is around 750$ I think we should expect something around 850~900$ for the X-lens kit, right? And probably 600$ body only.
But in the end I’m also a bit disappointed that this is not a NEX-7 competitor. If they were talking about weather sealed lenses, there should be a weather sealed camera, right? If not it doesn’t really make sense. But it should be above the GH series, GHX? Or will the GH3 be weather sealed? Since it’s a GX1 and not a GFX1, I don’t really think there will be a GF-PRO-like-NEX-7 competitor. Maybe this GHX, but it won’t look like a GF PRO, but more like a GH PRO?
If I didn’t HAVE to buy one until October, I would have waited for the GX1. But depending of the IQ I can even consider trading my NEX-5n, but it’s unlikely. My real plan is wait for the GH3 and then consider which system I should adopt because so far I’m only using old Nikon lenses. I’m not really going to invest in the NEX lenses with the current lenses – lack of – options.
The rumors for a NX1 is starting so I may consider a NX camera – which was unthinkable for me until some time ago, but the NX200 seems to have a nice IQ. At least the NX lenses are very promising – 85mm f/1.4, 60mm f/2.8 (macro), 16mm f/2.4 (pancake), 30mm f/2 (pancake), 20mm f/2.8 (pancake), 20-50mm (compact zoom), etc – the majority of them faster than f/2.8! I just wished that Samsung had better video/video feats, which is a point for Panasonic if they can stay ahead in that department.
I don’t really care about fanboyism and brand battle, I just want the best camera system possible – for my personal needs.
the g3 sensor already has less noise than A77 and sony nex7
Take a look at dpreview and check the noise and noise reduction page in the review of sony a77, if you set raw with no noise reduction…you’ll see that.
G3 sensor doesn’t have less noise than A77 at equal size. Check dxomark. You can’t compare 16 MP and 24 MP at pixel level like DPR does. A77 has lower noise at equal size, and Nex-7 is going to be better than A77 by 1/2 stop.
I believe what i see and dpreview test show that I’m right.
A77 it’s not good above iso 1600 and G3 is better.
Dxomark…it’s a joke, pls…;)
I don’t know, I think that the 24MP still performs better, but not only noise-wise, but overall, it has better DR, etc.
sigh….. it looks like crap… can’t believe it. all this time I have been waiting and we get this.
Dream M43 Roadmap:
Panasonic GF PRO announced in 2012 with LC1-like styling, weatherproofed black body, Built-in EVF, advanced sensor, manual controls,swivel OLED screen, focus peaking? 1080P @ 24/60FPS…
Olympus PEN PRO announced in 2012 with built in EVF…
Just keep dreaming, because you know Sony has those pancakes on the drawing board, and Fuji and Canon are coming on strong!
Um, Canon?
Sony has just a wonderful pancake…like the super sharp 16mm…I hope for you that they do a better job…;)
You’ve got to be kidding… the sharpness don’t mean a thing when the warp is more prominent than the same comany’s point-and-shoots (with Vario-Tessars).
It’s what the GF2 should have been.
+1
very disappointed with the design. essentially a GF1 with a grip. I hope the mechanics blows away the competition or it would be a loss leader. Does it even have a touch screen? if so I hope it is not the same as the G3
Wow, Panasonic made an EP3 *yawn*
Exactly…except this is so not sexy. It looks like Frankenstein. LOL!
This camera is really “better than you reader think”!
Look at the buttons! the lovely buttons are really great! they are all shinny!
And the grip, I can see a DEEP connection with the LC1 or L1
Of course I love the X mark on the lens and the blue iA button which are not ugly at all!
Wonderful I am going to order NEX 7 today!
it looks just like the LX-5 with a different hand grip. No surprise at all.
2011: Panasonic releases the GF1 (again).
Guess I’ll just stay with the original one.
I like the way the GH2 shoots 24p video. Neither Panasonic nor Olympus has a compact 24p camera, unless it’s the GX1. Major dealbreaker for me that will fortify or nullify my loyalty to M43.
My assessment of Sony: NEX-7, freakin’ killer video specs! NEX VG-20, freakin’ killer video specs. I almost bought the NEX VG-10, then users said it was a dog, which it was. Hence, I bought the GH2 and built up my M43 system. Sony bounced back within a year, akin to the Cardinals takin’ it in the bottom of the 9th with one strike left.
However, BIG BIG BIG decision for me is Canon. 5DM3 with longer recording times? Dealbreaker… bye-bye M43, NEX, and all the other new kids on the block.
Wow the design is embarrassing, really disappointed! No match for the l1 design… After so many hopes and wait im ordering the nex7 today… Was waiting for pana to surprise but this is garbage, maybe they had parts left from gf-1 production
It’s a fake. It can’t be real.
Ok camera. Too bad about that ugly grip.
+1
Agree
Agree. +1
Apologies for the triple post above. I got an error the first 2 times which suggested the comment was not succesfully posted.
At least the grip doesn’t have the Frankenstein kludge-like exposed screw like the EP3.
“At least the grip doesn’t have the Frankenstein kludge-like exposed screw like the EP3.”
But it would be nice if it was removable and they offered larger ones, for use with big lenses…
Again, I’m disappointed by Panasonic 🙁 Maybe it’s time to move on to something else.
This is obviously not an upgrade camera, but sold with the pancake zoom as the kit lens (and with good advertisement) it might draw new people in the m43 format.
yawn…
I guess Panasonic gave us what we wanted, another GF1. I actually like the GF1 design a lot more for various reasons but my main gripe is that the design doesn’t look like an evolution, just a variant on a 2 year old design.
They should’ve paid Richard Franiec to design their grip. I hope either the grip is removable or that’s not final. I’m not a big fan of the silver buttons. I prefer the GF1’s black buttons. And I see they kept the L on the bottom right of the camera. Ugh…
Design issues aside, if it has some stuff on the inside that makes it worthy of the X moniker then it’s all good. At least it had Full HD now. Hopefully they’ve got AVCHD 2.0 on it. It’s kind of silly that the Sony HX9V, a point and shoot camera, is beating most Micro Four Thirds cameras for videos. I’d like to see Panasonic put GH2 quality video on all their cameras.
By the way, how long until we’re able to get our hands on this? The Panasonic delays are killing me. Meanwhile, I just saw the Nikon J1 in the store earlier today. Didn’t they just announce that? That’s the kind of turnaround time that I wanna see! Don’t dangle the carrot in front of us then wait a few months until you give it to us.
The second Sony can figure out how to make quality pancakes, I’m selling most of mt M4/3 gear and getting an NEX. I’ll probably keep the GH1 and the zooms (7-14mm and 14-140mm) since they do a killer job and an NEX equivalent might be too big.
Looking at the pictures, I am starting to believe the rumors about the sensor being 12MP. This looks too much like the job Olympus did with the EP3.
It might still be nice, but I think I’m more tempted to up my budget and wait for Fuji to come up with something sexy.
12MP sensor is a good thing actually because it would be a new one, with less pixel density than the 16MP, which automatically means better high-ISO performance and more.
+1 that would be a relief!
It depends. If it is the same thing Olympus did with the EP3, it will not be a new sensor, just updated processing. The EP3 was more of a tweak job than anything new. Not that it is necessarily a bad thing, just not the progress one might expect after two years. But I guess we will see in a week’s time.
if it is a 12MP it WILL be a new one, it doesn’t make sense to use anything worse than the 16MP sensor, there is nothing more to tweak in the old 12MP sensor even Olympus is done with that as they were looking for other partners in that area. and if panasonic do use the old 12MP, they will fail completely.
Venting:
Seems like many of the folks here think Panasonic and Olympus compete purely on the basis of making the best camera for a knowledgeable user or enthusiast. Or worse, think every product they build should be judged based on a professional’s standards.
Panasonic and Olympus build products according to business strategies not an imaging arms race. Who can fault them for doing that?
The NX1 as shown here doesn’t appeal to me. So what? It’s not like they called to check with me before building it. They did pay attention to what the mirrorless enthusiast market seems to like, namely the GF1 and EP3. The GX1 looks like the unfortunate bastard child.
I’m guessing this GX1 is just a short term play to assist the launch of their “X lenses” and not a long term camera product line.
*sigh*
when will panasonic get their industrial design mojo back?
who knows…
I find it funny how a lot of people always get into that berserk mode in which everything is lame, everything sucks, bitching about everything when they don’t even know the real final specs, they have never seen a single sample image, they have never read a single preview, etc. Just like people went crazy mad about Sony’s decision with the 24MP sensor, a lot of them told it was no good, that the A77 was horrible – always comparing with something from a category above or comparing with the price from the category below -, they said that they would not get the NEX-7 because the sensor was worse than the NEX-5n and so on.
I just don’t get these people, but as it happens in sports blogs, technology blogs, etc. I guess it’s just the way people behave nowadays, they simply cannot reflect or think about something more than a few seconds without rushing into whatever conclusion they can get in those few seconds. And I have to say that they usually talks nonsense.
“it doesn’t worth the upgrade – from GF1”. How can someone possibly say that without knowing specs and image samples? Just because it looks like the GF1? Personally I didn’t like the design, but is that such a priority above IQ and everything?
“It’s not better than a NEX-7, I’ll buy a NEX-7”. They already said it, it’s not a NEX-7 competitor, it’s a NEX-5n competitor. So you should buy a NEX-7 from the start and cheer for Sony new lenses – I have a NEX camera so I know what it’s like.
etc.
etc.
I completely agree. But that’s gear fanatics for you, always looking for something to rage about.
I don’t about NEX-5N competitor though. If you need a hotshoe and like lots of buttons like me, NEX-5N isn’t going to cut it. I feel it’s more than a “NEX-6” if anything.
yeah, that’s where the GX1 has a edge over the NEX-5n. anyway, as the sources from 43rumors said, it’s more to NEX-5n than NEX-7.
> I find it funny how a lot of people always get into that berserk mode in which everything is lame, everything sucks […]
It’s a perfectly normal reaction of people who are not planning to buy a camera right now. Thus they have no particular features in focus and rant about everything at random.
> etc.
Seconded.
P.S. Amidst the static, I can see two general complains: (1) “we want rangefinder body” and (2) “we want GH3”. One should ignore the rants about group number 1, because there are plenty of rangefinders and RF-like cameras on the market. Rants of the second group suggest the ranting people do not own the GH2. Probably because they can’t afford it. Intermediate conclusion: people are bitching about lack of money to buy the gear they want. Final conclusion: it’s all right, no end of world in sight, people always rant about lack of money.
aie !
very disapointed
pana don t work on this one, they ve mixed gf1, gf2 and lx5 , add a piece of rubber for the grip, put the g3 sensor inside and that s their new camera ???
@ admin : a new gf not this year ? so in 2012 ? when ? …
Basically, it is GF1 with a new grip? Plus, a better sensor.
..and don’t forget the better buttons…
CRAP!
Pana & Oly had 2 years of advantage over e.g. Sony & this is now the result?
What a shame. why the management of pana & Oly want s to lose all the time? where is the winner gene?
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
I want a camerea with all the features of Sony Nex-7 (HDR, Panorama, Remote,SW-Features etc & also GPS-Mode) Price dosn’t matter, I just want an incredible good product, something that least for years!!! It should not be like a sellphone that you change every 2 years. for that I am also willing to pay more!
Do you got it dear managers / marketing people!?…
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
nex 7 has poor noise, worse than g3…
> Price dosn’t matter,
So what stops you from buying the NEX-7??
> I just want an incredible good product, something that least for years!!!
Tough luck. Tech at the moment make improvements every 12-18 months. Meaning that gear, specs-wise, becomes obsolete every 2 years.
> why the management of pana & Oly want s to lose all the time?
What were you smoking? Just released NEX-5N and NEX-7 are the first bodies to make any competition to the m43. And NEX lenses are still f***ing huge.
the lenses are to big otherwise no doubt for the nex-7, up to now Olympus still has its chance. but next year (beginning) descision time!!
i dont even care now~, about the camera body~, P&O just cant stop disappointing us~~shame~~
“dont talk to Pana&Oly, cause they’re only there to make you sad.
dont dream of EVF, cause they’ll only bring you down”
Why did they make the GF-2 not so good as the GF-1 and again the GF-3 not as good as the GF-2 and now maybe there is a “real” GF-2??????????? Strange
The GF2 is better than the GF1. Another person who has never used the GF2!!! Look at the specs.
@ ReadingZ
+1
R.I.P DIO!
what is tha magic of the iPhone?
it is the best product on the cellphone market & it is still easy to use.
also other products are good & are maybe better for what I use it. But I want the best product on market because I am changing also all the time & so I can grow with the product!
wake up marketing people of pana/oly !!!
I don’t have a problem with the appearance. If as is rumored it is slightly smaller than GF1… Good. The control layout is seemingly all there….. Thank You Aly for pointing out the drive mode button on four way controller. So much else is unknown.
However lets speculate this is a multi aspect ratio warmed over GH1 sensor with better Iso and Dynamic range. That would really interest me. Better processing to better the G3 output. All of a sudden I can get very interested in this camera.I am already I have DSLR’s with viewfinders and a GH2 and G1 I have no problem with a detachable EVF. And I also own a Panasonic L1 that flash looks very like the tilt flash on my L1…… Just dreaming out loud.
When we know more I’ll make a decision. Any combination of the above and it’s a definite buy for me
I would like to see a picture without this ugly lens but with a pancake or the 25mm
More than the berserk mode, it is rather the “disappointed and fed up with lukewarm updates” mode
It’s pretty much what I wanted at the end of the day.
I guess I wished it took even more styling cues from the LC1, had a higher res LCD for review and even *gasp* has the EVF built in, but as long as a I get a compact camera that manages to have to lots of manual control and a hotshoe built in, it’s what I need to do my work.
If it has the same image quality as the G3, I might even consider this instead of the Nex 5N, if it has the same old 12mp sensor its an EPIC FAIL!
I guess it will be extremely overpriced too if you consider that its essentially an GF1..
People (including me) are disappointed, because Pana was supposed to release a NEW camera. This is litte more than a tuned GF1 successor that should’ve been released half a year ago, instead of messing up the GF line with crippled GF2 and GF3 cameras.
I wonder if at least popular gimmicks like in camera HDR and sweep panoramas are finally included. That, in addition to the new, better grip, would make a serious step up form the GF1. Uhmm… 😀
Uh yes, now finally Panasonic has an “X” line of cameras. Important nowadays, as serious competitors tend to have an X in their name scheme. Sad they needed to relabel the GF line and haven’t been capable of introducing…oh, did I mention before….a NEW product.
Good news for me – looks like the EVF fitment is the same as the GF-1.
A Hi-Res [1.44MP] add on EVF for my GF-1 sounds good.
I can wait for Panny to come up with something revolutionary since any poor photos are usually caused by the nut behind the camera.
Damn… look at the quality of those buttons!
The thumb wheel is still that lousy plastic thing without a real feel to it. I like the wheel on the PENs better.
Not bad, but I stay with my G3 which has a better set of features. Tried for two years to get used to EP1 and GF1 non-viewfinders and then decided never ever to buy any camera of that kind.
BTW, did pixel peep NEX-7 high ISO noice v.s. G3: About the same. But of course the pixel density is higher in NEX-7 and subsequently a print from NEX-7 will look better than from G3.
From the looks of it, there’s nothing here that would make me consider replacing either my GH2 or GF2. The GH2 still sits comfortably above the GX1 in terms of features (multi-aspect sensor, articulated screen, built-in, slightly higher resolution EVF) and I manage quite well with the reduced controls of the GF2 when I need a more compact kit.
I might have been more interested if the GX1 included some features currently not found in the compact GF range: like an articulated screen and an integrated EVF. Then the GX1 could have replaced both my GH2 and the GF2.
For me …… Is it a multi aspect sensor….. with better processing and ISO.. I have a GH2 as well. You give me multi aspect in this format. I’m all over it. The GF1 was a great cam, if this offers more in output, I’ll buy it
Well..I already have a GF1. I don’t even understand why Panasonic would make this camera? I really don’t. This is definitely not my new second MFT body. Definitely.
Maybe a year or two from now we will actually have the next generation. Thank God the lenses have gotten so exciting with Panasonic and Olympus …that is where MFT shines. No revolution here with the body or sensor. Oh well.
why on earth did they remove buttons? i would have voted for an added physical AFS/AFC/MF switch.. anyways i think people bitched enough and for what most of us want this looks like a fail – the only feature that could lure me into buying this now are full manual gh2 style video controls.. but to be honest i think ill stick with my gf1 for now – amazing how long it’s lasted me..
It looks good to me and the button control seems to be adequate. But without an integrated VF is real deal breaker.
GF2, GF3 and GX1. Basically iterations of the same camera.
GX1 is Panasonics EP3. Slightly different design with metal body, and higher price of course. Still too small grip, and only 1 dial. Nothing to get excited about.
I like it, though it seems to have a bit too few improvements over the GF1/GF2. It’s good for what it is, but doesn’t improve enough compared to its obvious predecessors. I can live with it not having a built-in viewfinder, but the apparent lack of an external microphone input really is a bummer for an enthusiast- or semi-pro-oriented camera – omitting it for G and GF seems to make sense, but does it really have to be GH-exclusive? GX and GH are the sort of higher end counterparts to GF and G, so why can’t they share a bit more of the higher end features?
And a movable display would’ve been something to greatly welcome. :S
It’s a good, more up-to-date option for all those considering a GF1 or GF2, but if one already has a GF*, it doesn’t seem to be a reasonable update.
Have a peek in sony a77 or nex 7 viewfinder to see whats up to date tech
I´m glad it is not that special. Because I just got GH2 and this certainly does not make me want upgrade my GF1 anytime soon 😉 Of course if the High ISO is something phenomenal, then it is another story… But it must be on 5D mk II level before I even consider..
Well, you will be waiting about 10 years to get 5D Mark II level of image quality on a sensor this size, if history is any indication.
With that lens it’s very special
With that lens it’s very special
Just buy the lens and save a bundle of money…the box is nothing new.
True, the box is not new… Nice since the “trend to worse” appears as broken !!!
While i do appreciate the come back of dials and buttons, i must admit my diappointment…
Looks like an anwer to EP3 !
@ the ones who argue against childish unsatisfied Members: would the inside appear innovative, what a lack of design and market trend analysis then !
I don´t agree with you, Bob. I have shot with DSLR since Canon 10D and I must say that GF1 is already better than 10D, and the difference is only six years. GH2 is already surprisingly close to original 5D (I shoot both) so I will give it couple of years of sensor evolution. DOF control is totally different matter and for that I need to stick with FF sensor for my paid work.
This is very disturbing. All they had to do was to include a tilt screen and I, and many else, would have bought it.
Its totally MADNESS to introduce a camera (with full hd movie), without a tilt screen in 2011. Sony with their NEX-serie got it right.
Looks like I will wait for GF Pro or E-pl3. Damn, I really like the pancake-zoom…
I will probably be the first one in this discussion saying that I really really like the camera. All I really wanted was a compact rangefinder-like camera with high image quality. The GF3 had an old sensor, and the G3 was too big. The Sony NEX-5n has fatal video sound flaws and the lens are too big. The GX1 incorporates the latest Panasonic sensor in a compact camera. And they throw in a 3X optically stabilized zoom lens for good measure. I’m all for minimality and high quality, which the GX1 delivers. I wouldn’t mind if the camera was even smaller though 🙂
Sony’s fixing the sound flaw on the 5n for free. Obviously it’s a pain since you have to send it into the factory and wait a week, but not too difficult. The limited # of lenses is difficult, though.
this is pretty much the same old gf1..
epic fail.. i am leaving the sinking ship called 4/3 for good : P
Well well… if you have a 7-14 or a 45 macro in mint condition, I might be interested 🙂
I dont like tilt screens….articulated screen are much better –thats why i love the GH2 and G3 cameras. Tilts are no good when you want to photgraph with the camera on its side.
+1
I think I will buy epl3. That is so disappointing.
How do you know its not that special ? The GF 1 is great but it has major problems with its low light performance .To my mind a camera that takes the GF1 and addresses those issues is going to be something special .
It would have been special with a multi-aspect ratio sensor. Like that it can’t compete against the E-P3.
Pure none-sense.
Multi-aspect ratio sensor is a cool feature, nothing more, nothing less.
A camera can be crappy or great with or without it.
I have the GH1 & the GF1…what I am not liking ~ is not being able to see the LCD screen outside and to be able to change my settings. I am now stopping myself from buying any new micro 4/3 lens because it is soon time to switch up before I get in too deep.
I am going to stick to mirrorless cameras.
The new NEX 7 has KILLER CONTROL KNOBS, better LCD – EVF and larger sensor…but I still have my eye on Fuji, in hopes they will put out a camera with interchangeable lenses (I love the images coming out of the X100)!
I guess I’m in pretty deep already. I just bought the 45mm Olympus lens, and already have the 20, kit zoom, and a couple of cheapie toyiish lenses.
I’ll keep my Gf1 and hope for other bodies down the road.
This thing is pretty disappointing, especially if it’s meant as some sort of answer to the Sony NEX cameras. Clearly it’s not.
If it at least had a pivot screen, then it would appealing and quite workable as a better second body than the GF3, which lacks the excellent Control Wheel. I have little use for a hot shoe, but an external mode dial is a good thing. I like the metal buttons.
My GH2 should do me for quite some time. But I’m not buying anymore native M4/3 lenses until both Panasonic AND Olympus put out more full-featured cameras and not another round of glorified point & shoots. Until then, I’ll be looking at Leica M mounts and a Nikon or two.
Given the late trend of M4/3 dumbed-down POS camera bodies, I’d like to see something I’d want, actually PAY for, carry and use all the time. The kicker will be what the GH3 ends up being. As far as I’m concerned, the GH series is the real deal of ALL M4/3 camera bodies in terms of features and flexibility.
I for one…disagree with all of the people wanting an articulating screen. If you want a video-oriented camera…buy the GH2, its a great ride as a stills camera, too. I want the GF1 sucessor to be a stills-oriented camera (which I feel the GF1 was/is…I turned off the video button the day I got it and it has been off since), keep it simple, no touch screen, lots of manual controls and oh yeah…um ..give me something new, something improved. This camera missed most of that, as have all of Panasonic’s offerings since the GF1.
IMO an articulated screen is important for photos too, but I think that a Sony-like tiltable screen is a good compromise when compactness is important.
I shoot with the viewfinder. Exclusively. I NEVER use the screen. Ever. To shoot. No way to work in my world. I only us the LCD to view..I can tilt the camera.
You have the GH series of cameras for an articulated screen. I don’t think it is appropriate for the GF successor …if in fact that is what this is.
I have to think you’re in the minority on that one. I absolutely require an EVF, but for low angle shots a tilt screen is an excellent feature to have. Well, that is unless you enjoy laying belly down in dirt and filth to compose.
Then you’re clearly not in the group Panasonic has targeted with this camera that don’t even have a built in viewfinder. The advantage with the NEX-design is that it gives a tiltable screen while only adding a minimal amount of weight and thickness to the camera.
Panasonic obviously can’t make one model for each user’s requirements and by leaving out a tiltable screen (and viewfinder) they exclude some (I’d say a lot) potential customers (like me) while presumably making the camera more attractive to others because they can sell it slightly cheaper.
Btw, I think it looks pretty good, they can’t compete with NEX-7 so they don’t try. It’s just not a camera I’d buy because of my priorities.
MY LVF tilts up so that I can shoot low easily…plus…I like rolling in the dirt whenever possible!!!!!! 🙂 (you guys can buy the GH2)
This camera will obviously have a port for an optional LVF.
Obviously, but an external EVF is a kludge sitting in the hotshoe and making a otherwise small, nice and fairly smooth camera much more akward to use. I’d be very reluctant to buy a model with external EVF because i prefer viewfinders in many situations. I’d consider it on a compact like LX5 or XZ1 where there simple isn’t any options, but not om MFT were I can get a G3 with both viewfinder and tilting screen.
That’s also one reasen (the other being the sensor) why NEX-7 generate so much interest. Sony has managed to pack it all into pretty compact body. NEX-7 is clearly the camera to beat at the moment, but compete in a different price range for now. And they need a couple of compact lenses too. If they can make someting like the Panasonic 14-42X to go with NEX-7 then they cold sell it at any price (well, almost).
I have a GH2, shoot mostly stills and use the articulated screen often. The EVF I use mainly, since I mostly use manual lenses and do lots of macro shooting… but for city shooting and low angle macro, I use the LCD. I find no use for a camera with a fixed, point and shoot style LCD and no EVF.
Even for a second, casual body, I’d want a tiltable screen at bare minimum, like the EPL3 or, ideally, a NEX-5N (manual lenses and focus peaking!!!!!) … OR a body with an EVF only, but since I have no interest breaking out my Nikon or Pentax 35mm film cameras, I guess I’ll have to settle for a TiltyScreen. 😉
This thing kicks butt on the 5n. The handling of the 5n is far inferior in the use of real dedicated controls. Then you look at the handling of the available lenses & it’s pretty clear that the only advantage that the 5n has is the sensor. So does the 5n sensor make up for the inferior handling.
I’ve spent a little time messing with the NEX-5N and NEX-7 (helped by a Sony Rep) and while the interface is a bit odd at first, once I knew where things were, it wasn’t too bad. Olympus isn’t much better.
Adjusting exposure is similar to a Panasonic with a wheel. And when in M mode, you have focus peaking which is very intuitive, pretty close to the look and feel of using an optical viewfinder to focus, actually. I find that even with my GH2’s EVF, I can guess a little when using manual focus.
Every digital camera has weird interface quirks that one learns to adapt to.
Perty: your right!—sony 5n has bad handling (and besides sony has awful lenses too )
Mr. Reeee: I’m a long time Panasonic user, currently with a GH2 as my main camera. I’ve used both an Olympus E-PL1 and a Sony NEX-3 out in the field for periods of several weeks. The interesting thing is, while I never was able to get comfortable with the Olympus interface, the Sony UI was no problem.
Keeping in mind that the NEX-3 targets a different segment than the GH2, I found the Sony’s interface logical, flexible and responsive. Once I got accustomed to it, that is. Yet I just couldn’t get comfortable with the Olympus, no matter how intensively I used it.
That experience has made me pre-order the NEX-7. I’ll use it in conjunction with my GH2 to see which system works better for me. Like you, I use a tilting screen for unobtrusive urban shooting and framing photos low to the ground. The feature is so useful to me that I will no longer consider any bodies without a tilting screen. Including the GX1.
Come on, why are you unsatisfied with Panasonic’s product policy? The GH2 is not even a year on the market and Panasonic has to release already another body with similar attributes?
A flagship product is a flagship, there is only one! At this moment, it was simply necessary to fill the middle class of the product line, that is the gap, the GF1 left.
There are signs that next year will bring the GH3 probably available in the second half. A 1.5 to 2 year sequence for a flagship products is not that bad.
We and Panasonic should not glare at the NEX-7, which from the perspective of control layout is nothing than a point and shoot (LCD driven).
The disappointing vendor is clearly Olympus. There is still nothing beyond the boring PENs, whereas Panasonic as the most diverse system camera product line of any camera vendors (incl. DSLR vendors) to date.
GF1 + G3 sensor + GF2 touchscreen + new jpeg engine + grip
or
GF2 + G3 sensor + GF1 mode dial & buttons + new jpeg engine + grip
How lame is that? Almost as much differences as between E-P1 and E-P2. Did Oly product managers went to Panasonic?
This is what GF2 should have looked like. This should have been out in November 2010, not November 2011.
But why am I writing this? Nobody from Panasonic is reading our comments anyway… I’m leaving the website.
Just joking, I am staying here :). But, I don’t like these endless incremental updates. I’d like Olympus and Panasonic to make two or three models, with all the features a 2011 mirrorless camera should have and leave it like that for two years. No need for updates every six months, make an extra effort, make a benchmark camera and watch the competition trying to catch up.
I do not like it at all, because it doesn’t have VF.
But then, if I were looking for a camera with VF, I would have turned to G3.
Not my thing. Just like the old GF cameras – and the whole Oly’s m43 line.
Again all the complaints that a multinational corporation is not manufacturing and distributing a device to meet every individual expectation. I am happy with the GF1. The GX1 looks a sensible evolution of what I like about the GF1. Depending on price and performance from REAL reviews I may buy it. Or not. Life goes on, I keep capturing images and worry about more important things.
fugly, the GF1 was much prettier (I held one briefly). Again I can see Panny’s strategy – they probably wanted to launch their next sensor tech with the GH3 by now, but the tsunami pushed back their schedule. They also put a lot of resources into the X-lenses, so they want to recover some money before giving us the next significant advances. So here’s the tweaked GF rehash with the kit X kit lens. X never meant ‘pro’, it meant miniature = the GF range. We’ll have to wait for the GH3 to really see something new.
Metal buttons! metal buttons!
such a pro camera will cost you a forture.
still no IS? damn.
+1
But that’s not going to come from Panasonic this century.
@miroslav
What’s really lame….. is all the whiners complaining about a camera they know absolutely….NOTHING about. Other than it’s appearance. The GF1 didn’t have a tilt screen or built in EVF either. And it’s a great camera.
Get over it…. Buy a G3 if that is what you really need. Or how many who have invested in m4/3 lenses are really going to buy a NEX7. Not many for sure. Nothing worse than hollow threats on the annonymous internet. “GUMS”….action without teeth ….. as effective as a near miss.
+100!
Well that camera appearance is telling enough, isn’t it? Whatever’s inside is not going to help you in bright sunlight or if you need to shoot above the crowd. Panasonic already have similar body – GF3 and mode dial, hotshoe and bigger grip are not enough to justify making another model. This one’s just another variation without substantial improvement.
As for G3, if Olympus comes out with similar model (with IBIS), I’ll be the first in line. I’m not going to switch to Sony, there’s even less choice there.
@miroslav
You have absolutely no way of varifying a word you say. YOU don’t have a clue what’s inside. Your a glass half empty type screaming ….. the sky is falling!!!
Get a grip, show some patience and make decisions based on known facts……. Otherwise your just annoying,distracting, White noise… adding nothing of value to the conversation
Within a week the camera in question will be officially announced. I’m sure DPR has a pre production model and will have a hands on preview. Then and only then will we know exactly what this camera is.
Until that time I….. as I’m sure many others will not be influenced by all the chicken little hysteria on this site that this camera is unworthy…… I actually believe it will be a camera I would like to buy.
I doubt they’ve chosen a mid level model to introduce global/electronic shutter, PDAF on sensor, focus peaking, stitching modes, TTL bounce flash or IBIS. And I’ve given up hope there will be any of those in GX1, frankly. But if it has all or most, it will be a camera I would like to buy.
…wise words!
@elf if i may i’m going to reply you the way you reply to miroslav.
why are you defending a camera that you don’t know anything about except, i don’t know, what miroslav was talking about… it’s exterior. it’s about that what he was talking about and he has a few good points.
i also find this upgrade a complete nonsense. why? because i really don’t care only about what’s inside. a camera without good controls are useless no matter what’s inside it.
i have a L1 and i want to update it sooner or later. i want to get a couple of voigtlander lens to go with the new camera but, for me, the L1 controls are simply top notch and i want that in a gf type camera… that and a good built in evf… until now there’s nothing like it and trust me, like me there are many waiting.
in the process if a x100 comes out with a m mount (or shorter) i’m there and i’ll stop waiting for a panasonic camera to show.
+1000 !
I am waiting …
@David.The control layout of GF1 is there rearanged but there.
I too have an L1 with kit lens and PL 14-150. You’ll be waiting a long time for anyone to make that camera in micro anything. The L1 is a huge brick of a camera as you know. But very pleasing to use,and own.
I am responding to all the negativity about nothing more than appearance, and guessing. Empty hollow whining.
Lets wait and see exactly what this beasty is.
I remember when I bought the L1 new….it was one of the most reviled cameras too big,too ugly, too expensive, not modern enough for digital. All the people who said all those things probably wish they had one now. All we hear is a camera that looks like the L1. Built in view finder etc. Just where are we going to put this whizzbang VF on the GX1. What? Smaller lcd, big carbunbcle growing off the top an appendage on the left side perhaps. Or maybe with no controllers buttons etc. we’d have just enough room for one of those little ones like on the FZ models.
I like the camera just the way it is. If I want more, I have a GH2 better platform for all that stuff you know.And I have no aversion to an add on EVF,only makes sense to me.
Cheers
Tilting screen is nice but I’ve never had any trouble shooting over head with the GF2. If you want an EVF then buy the addon EVF, if you want a built in swivel screen and EVF then buy the G3 🙂
Should have put small EVF in the place of that accessory port, and there’d be 90% of votes for “It’s a very nice camera!”.
+1 now that we have the x100 and NEX-7, there is nothing special about a camera with no VF.
I’ll take this camera over a overpriced camera like the nex-7 any day of the week.
It’s getting tiring to hear about the nex cameras and they’re not even M43!
I refuse to buy into sony’s expensive ecosystem.
Then people would complain endlessly about the price.
A small EVF? I’d rather a decent (G1 quality) addon EVF then a small low quality EVF.
The NEX-7 has a better than “decent” built-in EVF that is flush with the camera body. High-quality and small don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
Yah but the Sony’s built in VF is in a bad place if you shoot with telephoto lenses..in the middle like the G3 is much better for handling!
Excellent point! Extremely enlightening, actually! Especially with the fixation on “bright zooms” (which means BIG zoom) that some have.
There’s a real issue of balance with an off-center viewfinder. When I tried a NEX-7 it did feel a bit weird. You also lose the direct, aligned sightline of a vertically aligned VF and lens. The rifle shot, if you will.
A true rangefinder (I actually owned and used 2 Konicas exclusively for about 10 years) had 35mm, 40mm or 50mm lenses. Only with the most exotic RF cameras were you able to (expensively) change lenses and viewfinders. I really can’t imagine trying to work a 14-140mm or 100-300mm on a NEX-7 style body. It works fine for shorter prime lenses, but certainly not for longer lenses.
Yah and speaking of bright zooms: I hear Panasonic will be bringing fast zooms to the table…cant wait! Then maybe the GH3 will come out next year too…and i hope the VF will be in the middle (hey Panasonic dont listen to the people who want the VF of to the side please) ☺
Small EVF is better than no EVF. Not every model can have the best EVF, leave that ones for top models. Clip-on EVFs make these small cameras much less portable. Don’t see much point in them, too clumsy, another way for manufacturers to earn some money, I guess.
Yeah, I’ll keep my GF1 without hesitation. I’ll buy NEX5N for my vintage lens collection. Period.
deleted
Wow. Nice to see that the comments on 43 rumors are becoming remarkably like the bitching, whining and trolling over at the DPR forums…
And it used to be nice here.
People are just tired of waiting for Panasonic to give them the camera they really want. The GF1 was out in early 2010 and I figured they would have a built in EVF model by October 2010 when I planned to take my trip to Europe.
I bought one at the last moment with the EVF and was generally happy with it, but would have been happier if the EVF was not an add on.
I really hope the low light chops and dynamic range is better on this new model.
you right Nick!!—Everybody just complains now—but i think no matter what forum you go too people complain.
Panasonic : people complain about VF..
Oly: people complain about old 12 mp sensor..
Sony : people complain about oversized and poor quality lenses
Nikon : small sensor & ugly lenses
pentax…complaining about very small sensor..
Samsung: not sure what they are complaining about yet..
cheers eh
Samsung? A name that sounds like something you’d scrape off your shoe!
That’s worth some big-time bitching. 😉
Mr. Reee: that the best coment ive seen all day!-hee hee
-cheers eh!!☺
Samsung: bad sensor.
I guess no manufacturer, except maybe Panasonic, has really put maximum effort into mirrorless R&D. Some are still testing the water (Samsung, Pentax), while others are protecting their DSLRs (Nikon, Sony). Which leaves one wondering what Olympus is really up to, having almost almost abandoned its DSLR lineup while not replacing it fully with mirrorless.
“the comments on 43 rumors are becoming remarkably like the bitching, whining and trolling over at the DPR forums.”
That’s because many people came here from DPReview. DPReview introduced comments on news posts to stop that a bit.
if the new VF is compatible with the GF1 then I will probably stick with GF1 for now but replace the crappy original VF. anybody know if this is the case yet or have they done a “NEX 5N” on the external VF to make everybody buy the new camera.
That remains to be seen. The level of software support Panasonic provided for the 4/3 and X lenses compared to other bodies shows that they have been laboriously deprecating the GF1 out of existence by making it incompatible. And now that they have a full-blown successor to force onto GF1 owners, they have even less incentive to support the older body.
this won’t be possible, the accessory port on the gf1 only outputs a signal with resolution matching that of the current evf. unfortunately, else i would also just pick up the new evf and be set for another year at least. oh well.
They do, if you look at side by side picture the G3 isn’t really much bigger than the GF1.
Currently Panasonic has a larger semi-pro camera (GH2), a smaller camera with a built-in EVF and swivel screen (G3), a small camera with full manual controls (GX1) and a tiny consumer camera (GF3).
I’m sorry but isn’t that enough choice?
That is indeed what Panny executives and marketing do think…
That is also indeed not what the market expects.
We do not complain about what is obviously rather difficult to provide 12 Mpix 43 sensor APSC Sony level and best – Olympus – Jpeg processing. That should take time…
We complain about Panasonic incapacity to deliver what it has been developing for… years and years !
Youre right Andy!—the G3 is an awesome camera!!!!!
half the price of the Sony 7, the money you save you can put towards the vastly superior lenses from Pana and Oly!
I’m a bit confused by the strategy of Panasonic with m4/3. They’ve obviously done the work on the technology, but they seem confused about what sort of cameras people want. There’s a clear lack of vision. At the moment they seem to have a suck it and see approach.
For a start this is clearly a GF2, but the problem is that we’ve already had a GF2, that wasn’t really a GF2. Panasonic have said that the “X” range of lenses is going to be a premium line like Canon L. So you’d have to assume that an “X” camera would be a premium grade camera. However, the GF1 was not a premium grade camera and nor is this. What I’m puzzled about is that if Panasonic does introduce a more premium grade camera along the lines of the NEX7 or X100 – then what will they call it? Unless Panasonic introduce another tier of lenses above “X”, a mid-range camera would carry the premium name, and the top range camera a different name.
It looks a good solid camera that will presumably be a good photographic tool. But it’s unimaginative and there’s no attention to detail. Why a fixed LCD when tilting LCDs are not only becoming popular, but many photographers are now starting to appreciate them. Why a 460k screen when other manufacturers put screens with twice the resolution in lower level cameras.
Whilst I think their technology is good, I also think that Panasonic don’t really understand photographers. Enthusiast photographers, photography writers/bloggers and pros may be a small proportion of the total market. However, they have immense influence on what other people buy. People immitate and copy the photographers who produce the best work and who write on the subject. Just look how the NEX7 and X100 were received. At any point in the last few years Panasonic could have produced a m4/3 camera in that niche. They obviously have the technology and know how.
“At any point in the last few years Panasonic could have produced a m4/3 camera in that niche. They obviously have the technology and know how.”
All things considered, the GH2 was almost universally well-recieved – especially by enthusiasts and pros… It’s probably still the most well-rounded mirrorless camera available (perhaps superseded by the NEX7).
@SteB
“For a start this is clearly a GF2, but the problem is that we’ve already had a GF2, that wasn’t really a GF2.”
This should have been called GF3 and GF3 should have been called GX1. Just like Olympus introduced new entry level line with E-PM1. Let’s say GF2 was a step in the wrong direction as GF1 successor, but this camera has many GF2 features…
@Nick Clark
“All things considered, the GH2 was almost universally well-recieved – especially by enthusiasts and pros… It’s probably still the most well-rounded mirrorless camera available (perhaps superseded by the NEX7).”
That’s what I meant when I said Panasonic already have the technology. The GH2 is a technologically accomplished camera. What I said was not a criticism of the cameras as I will probably get a GH2 soon, because after having waited to see what elese came out it looks the best choice for what I want to do.
My point was about the strategy of Panasonic, and not a criticism of particular Panasonic cameras. Whilst higher level cameras sell in smaller numbers they are an important consideration for many photographers buying into a system. The more capable photographers whether amateur or pro are very influential on the trends of what the less experienced photographers buy. From a photographer’s point of view the buzz cameras like the NEX7 and X100 create are very important. They give a system kudos. This is why I think m4/3 needs at least one higher level camera. Solid body, ideally weatherproofed, good direct access controls, best possible image quality and other functioning.
@steb. Nice post. That pretty much sums it up.
“Just look how the NEX-7 and X-100 were received.”
The NEX-7 and X-100 certainly have been salivated over by forum posters, but how many have actually “received” them… in the sense of buying them with their own money?
Not so many, I think. Both of those are US$1200 cameras. Panasonic realizes that many people, even “serious” photographers, simply can’t afford to spend that much money. I suspect that they are planning the features of their camera models so they will fall into well-defined price tiers that are realistic for their target customers. That approach may not excite forum posters who only read specifications and look at pictures, or bloggers who have demo equipment hand-delivered to them (e.g. Steve Huff’s enthusiastic NEX-7 review) but for SELLING cameras it seems like a rather sensible approach.
It’s easy to make up wish lists of every feature found on every competing model and say, “Why can’t I have ALL of them?” … but engineering all those features into a sensibly-sized camera that can be sold at a sensible price might not be so easy!
At this point I think the entry level market has quite enough bodies to choose from when it comes to m4/3’s. By now both Olympus and Panasonic should have the know how to create a true DSLR replacement. But unless you count the GH2 we just haven’t seen much in that regards (I personally despise the Canon Rebel-like form factor of the GH2). As the admin loves pointing out, a m4/3’s LC1 is long long long past due.
Re: “I also think that Panasonic don’t really understand “photographers.
i wonder if pansonic really cares about the market outside asia. they update their models too rapidly for the european and us market, alot of camera shops where i live in spain have recently stopped stocking any panasonic micro43s products.
-THIS.
I don’t understand all of the whining going on here. This looks like it will be a nice camera with the goal of being VERY SMALL and offering image quality comparable and perhaps better than the GH2 or G3. I’d like a viewfinder and an articulating LCD screen as well, but if you shove it into this model, you make it a GH2 or G3… things that already exist.
So my question to unhappy people… why didn’t you get the GH2 or G3 already? I’m liking this model because it’s a compliment to the GH2 and I might get one as my small (almost) pocketable m43 camera while I’ll still use he GH2 for more serious stuff.
+100
GH2 : too big and video oriented
G3 : too light build
Both : too bulky
Reduced L1 would have :
– entrerd our big pockets
– Fit our big hands with its nice controls
– been selling far more than FUJI X100
I agree mostly except I was hoping it had a tilting LCD, which is more compact than the swivel mechanism of the G/GH cams, should barely add mm to the body’s dimension (see the NEX line), and would be easy/cheap to do (add 2 hinges?).
Panasonic shouldn’t be making m43 cameras fixed LCD anymore, especially that they are fairly video oriented. A small GX1 with tilting LCD would complement the G/GH.
OK, I’d agree with that too. A tilting LCD would have been nice.
Boy, am I glad I just bought a GH2! I thought I would regret it, but this validates it. What the hell is Panasonic thinking? At the Photoplus expo, Nikon had an overwhelmingly prominent display for their new mirrorless stuff with miriads of accessories, etc (they don’t I even have the IQ capability) and Sony had an impressive display of cutting edge products (although I am somewhat unimpressed with the Nex7). Panasonic is on its third gen now. Why does it seem to me like it’s going backwards?
What a strange world mirrorless is, so many cooks yet not one can put it all together:
Sony Nex5N: Great sensor, well-built small and slender body, 3″ HD tilt LCD, peaking for legacy lenses, right price; but no IBIS, no built-in flash, poor lens selection (even with the 3 new introductions), and they’re oversized and non-collapsible.
Sony Nex7: Magnesium alloy “pro” body, 24MP sensor, 2.4M dot built-in rangefinder style OLED EVF, HD tilt LCD, built-in flash, peaking for legacy lenses; but pricey, no IBIS, and same lens issues as 5N.
Pan GX1: 16MP sensor (remains to be seen if better than G3’s sensor/processor combination), nice-sized body with plenty of controls, built-in flash, solid lens selection plus new compact 14-42,grip; but no IBIS, 460K fixed LCD, no built-in rangefinder style EVF, likely same old mediocre Panny JPEG colors, likely pricey.
E-P3: Nice-sized/designed body with plenty of controls, IBIS, Truepic colors, 3″ HD OLED LCD, built-in flash, solid lens selection; but same old 12MP sensor, non-tilt display, no built-in rangefinder style EVF, pricey for what you’re getting.
E-PL3: See above except gain tilt LCD and smaller body, but lose some controls, OLED display, and built-in flash. Also, usable area of display a paltry 2.4″ and still pricey for what you’re getting compared to NEX 5N.
E-PM1: See above but lose tilt LCD and controls, plus same paltry 2.4″ usable area of display and no built-in flash. For $500 you do get IBIS and Truepic colors, but in a stripped down and, to these eyes, cheap looking camera.
Nikon V1/J1: Sensor too small/noisy at high ISO’s, not enough lenses to merit consideration and likely never will be since they don’t want it to compete with their DSLR’s.
Panasonic Q: Tiny sensor makes this a pointless camera for those seeking DSLR-like IQ in a small package; also lacks lens selection and $800 price is in la-la land.
Olympus would be the obvious candidate to put it all together in a body combining a state-of-the-art 16MP sensor from a new manufacturer, tilt 3″ HD OLED, built-in rangefinder style HD EVF, IBIS, Truepic colors, plenty of buttons and 2 control wheels, all wrapped in an attractive, slim magnesium alloy body.
With the kooks currently running the show, this will never happen. Unless, perhaps, they all end up in the clinker (there’s always hope!) and a new board is appointed that actually cares about the future and listens to the camera consumer.
Mighty curious why you left out the G3 and GH2, which sound like the closest to what you’re after…?
Clearly, he’s comparing cameras with rangefinder (rather than DSLR) styling. Additionally, the GH2 is about the size and weight of an entry-level DSLR.
> Additionally, the GH2 is about the size and weight of an entry-level DSLR.
Have you actually held the GH2 in your hands? Obviously not.
I have. It’s about the size and weight of an entry level DSLR.
Thank you 🙂
No, it is smaller and lighter in every aspect
Canon EOS 60D 145 x 106 x 79 mm weight inc battery 755g
Panasonic GH2 124 x 90 x 76 mm weight inc battery 609g
That doesn’t even include the huge size and weight differences once you put a lens on it.
A Canon 60D is an entry level camera?
Try a Canon 1100D weight including battery 495g.
And if you want to use the GH2 for its intended purpose (video), you have to step up to larger adapted lenses, since focus-by-wire is useless for racking. Not to mention the dearth of fast lenses in m43, there may be a few fast primes, but no fast zooms to speak of. Add an adapter (M42/K/F) onto a GH2, and suddenly it’s thicker than a 7D.
I have a friend who is heavy into video, and his GH2 kit (mostly adapted lenses) is as bulky as an equivalent APS-C DSLR kit. True the GH2 stomps nearly everything else for video quality, but lightweight and petite it ain’t.
Ok Voldenuit,
If you want to compare these body only (your 495g is body only not with battery)
Canon 1100 130 x 100 x 78 weight 495g (body only)
Panasonic GH2 124 x 90 x 76 weight 392g (body only)
Panasonic G3 115 x 84 x 47 weight 336g (body only)
There you go. Again smaller in every dimension and in weight.
The adapter for manual lenses is a strawman argument, there are fast primes out and fast zooms on the way.
I had an error in my original GH2 body + battery weight for my earlier post as that also INCLUDED the kit lens.
So there’s a size difference of 6 x 10 x 2 mm and weight difference of about 100 grams (~= a 20mm f/1.7)? Doesn’t sound all that different to me. Also, the D3100 weighs 455 g body only, an even smaller difference.
While we’re splitting hairs, however, the NEX-7 weighs 291 g, is smaller than the GH2 by 4 x 23 x 33mm, yet retains ample manual controls and an EVF.
The point is that, while the GH2 is certainly a fine camera, it loses the compactness that u4/3 can easily achieve without sacrificing features. It’s the byproduct of the mentality that size must correlate with sophistication (i.e. bigger = better), which unfortunately translates to product development/marketing, even for those with “Micro” in the name.
The reason I love u4/3 is that it offers quality, compact lenses. I’d just like to have a full-featured compact body to match – one that doesn’t dwarf the lenses attached to it.
100 grams in this case is 20% lighter. That is a big difference in relative terms.
Comparing it to the D1000 and the GH2 is still smaller in every single dimension and more than 13% lighter.
Comparing the G3 to the D1000 and you have an even larger difference in every single dimension and 26% lighter.
Again, this doesn’t include the differences in the weight, bulk, or center of gravity of the lenses. It isn’t splitting hairs at all if you want to carry a reasonable amount of lenses with you that are matched to the system all day.
I’ve got nothing against a NEX7ish form factor, but since you can’t really easily pocket most of these with a lens mounted, I’m not seeing why the GH2/G3 form factor is such a problem with people. They both have swivel LCDs and the EVFs that everyone wants.
I’ll add Canon’s US site
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_rebel_t3_18_55mm_is_ii_kit?selectedName=Specifications
“Weight
Approx. 17.4 oz. / 495g (body only)”
and that the battery weighs 68g, not the 36g that you are suggesting.
The G3 AND the GH2 are smaller in every dimension AND are lighter than the very smallest and very lightest DSLR that you can find. This is before you add any lenses, which make the bulk and weight differences all that much more pronounced.
I’m still far more interested in what is inside the GX1 and what it can produce with the right person behind it, pushing the silver button. But I know from owning both the GH1 and GH2 that I can carry many more m43 bodies and lenses in a much smaller space and weight than the equivalent entry level DSLR.
dpreview states the 495g weight as including batteries
http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/slrs/canon_eos1100d
so does photographyblog.com
http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/canon_eos_1100d_review/specifications/
Without the battery, it only weighs 459g
http://snapsort.com/cameras/Canon-1100D-specs/weight
You are incorrect..
Cut and pasted directly from
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS1100D/page2.asp
“Dimensions * 130 x 100 x 78 mm
Weight (no battery) * 495 g”
And copy and paste from http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/slrs/canon_eos1100d
Weight (inc. batteries) 495 g (1.09 lb / 17.46 oz)
Go directly to Canon.com
http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_1100D/index.aspx?specs=1
Weight (Body Only) Approx. 495g (CIPA testing standard, including battery and memory card)
The point was that someone stated that the GH2 weighed as much as an entry-level DSLR. This is clearly meant as an illustrative point, and he obviously meant that the GH2 is big and heavy for a m43 camera, and may not have meant the statement in the literal sense. Nobody goes around weighing bodies on scales when they go shopping for a camera, they usually go by hefting it in their own hands. The icing on the cake is that his statement is literally true, but that fact is not germane to the argument. There are lots of people who prefer getting an E-P3 or E-PL3 or GF2 to a GH2, even though the image quality is not as good, because they value the portability. This is the same reason people bought m43 over APS-C DSLRs in the first place.
But how come your summary misses all of the existing Panasonic cameras.
gh2 is definitely smaller than entry level dslr.
Then put on lens of said dslr @ put on equivalent lens on gh2, then gh2 is substantially smaller than entry level dslr.
GX1 – No IBIS Well the IBIS on the PENs is problematic at certain speeds according to numerous reports by users and cannot be used with video offsetting its usefulness with legacy lenses or those lenes w/o IS.
Same old mediocure Pany JPEG colors – The reviews show that the colors in G3 and GF3 have been considerably improved and if you check just how accurate color the Pany ones in most cases come out as being more accurate and natural (PP).
Pricy – We don’t know that for sure at this stage and for fairer comparison need to know the body only price or what price would be with the old zoom lens as the compact X lens is a league of its own for a zoom lens. I think a lot depends on whether or not Pany retains the GF2 at a lower price with the old lens or replaces with this new GX1 with Xlens. Pany would be foolish not to offer the GX1 body only since many already have the lenses they need.
“GX1 – No IBIS Well the IBIS on the PENs is problematic at certain speeds according to numerous reports by users and cannot be used with video offsetting its usefulness with legacy lenses or those lenes w/o IS.”
It’s easy to buy OIS lens if you want stabilized video, seems to me that new 12-35mm will be brilliant video lens, but you can’t stabilize your primes with a Panasonic camera.
“E-PL3: usable area of display a paltry 2.4″
If that’s a price to pay for smaller body and/or more buttons, then I’m all for it.
It’s the consequence of using a 16:9 screen on a camera with 4:3 sensor. I’d like to hear the explanation from the designer who made that decision.
+10
Pens all pens use generations old sensor with no image quality gain from one model to another. The idiotic EP-3 has fastest ever AF claim is the usual Olympus subterfuge { it is only relevant with one specific lens in specific conditions , try using the EP-3 in low light and get back to me about fastest ever AF }
The avid mFT fan boys love to make claims about the V1 if you compare the shadow areas in the RAW files. The Pens are more comparable to the P&S models, and before the whiners get going about the V1 having NR above 800iso, this may be true but look at the shadow area such as the box with the reels of thread there is no detail in the EP-3 it looks like pointillism.
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikon1system/page5.asp
> so many cooks yet not one can put it all together
Given your assessments, it appears “all together” to you means:
16-24mp (APS) sensor, 2.4m dot EVF, tilt/touch OLED LCD, focus peaking, built-in flash, metal body, compact lens plus plenty of others, solid grip, IBIS, high-ISO capability, and in a “right price” camera.
This is the problem with asking users what they want: you get a feature list. In practice, there’s a congruence of form/function that makes a design right. I’d agree that none of the companies have got it right, but I’d disagree that it’s a complete feature list that they’re missing. It’s the sum of the parts that are off. There’s a big design dissonance in each camera so far (I’m oversimplifying):
NEX 3/5: novice UI versus enthusiast level of performance
Pens: enthusiast UI (sort of) versus novice level of performance
Curiously, you omit one company that’s come closer to making form/function than the others: Samsung. They’ve got moderate enthusiast in both UI and performance, at least in the NX100/200.
The thing that gets me is why we need all this groping around and experimentation/iteration in terms of this new class of camera. They’re cameras! Something between true novice/consumer (compact cameras) and true enthusiast/pro (DSLRs) isn’t going to be some new alien form of camera. It needs to be something that does one of three things: (a) positions users from transition from compact to DSLR; or (b) completely replaces compact for DSLR users; or (c) completely replaces DSLR for compact users.
Using those definitions, the companies picked as their design approach:
Sony: none of the above (NEX 7 may be an exception)
Panasonic: (c)
Olympus: (c)
Samsung: (c)
Nikon: (a)
Pentax: none of the above
It’s not about lists, it’s about what should be basic features of a rangefinder styled mirrorless camera at this stage in their evolution.
– Sony quality sensor for low noise at high ISO’s (Olympus struggles at 1600)
– Olympus JPEG colors (subjective, but many seem to agree)
– IBIS: why wouldn’t you include this? You can always turn it off for OIS lenses, but it’s always available for legacy lenses and primes
– tilt screen: again, why wouldn’t you include this on cameras that are now doubling as video cameras?
– 3″ usable area HD screen: this is the industry standard, why go back several generations and provide something smaller? Many have now also been spoiled by iPhone 3.5″ Retina displays; I could see this becoming the norm on E-P3 sized bodies.
– built-in HD EVF: who would accept a DSLR without a VF?
– easily accessed control buttons/wheels: still far easier than fumbling with a touch screen.
– small and collapsible lenses: what’s the point of a small and slim body if the lenses are similar in size to APS-C lenses? mFT gets this.
– magnesium alloy body: this is subjective, but isn’t it about time mirrorless grew up and provided a quality build body? Sony get’s this, along with their very compact yet high quality rangefinder style EVF in the NEX 7.
I’ve had a built-in VF, flip LCD, IBIS, Truepic colors in one package for close to two years in my E-620, body purchased for $454. Compact size is great, I get it, but why sacrifice fundamental features? Put it all together and sell it for under $1000, and many would scoop it up.
According to this list, the Leica M9 does not have “”what should be basic features of a rangefinder styled mirrorless camera at this stage in their evolution.”
Yet it sells not only at a “basic” price, but at quite a bit more than that. This suggests that TH is right and that a “congruence of form/function that makes the design right” is more important than checking all the boxes of some arbitrary wish list.
A little bit disappointed by the design, it’s just a GF1 with a grip…. 🙁
2 years after and it’s the same camera…
Any news about manual controls in video ?
I’m so disappointed. No design improvement than 3 years ago with gf1. No big revolution with sensor , etc…
What do you mean no big revolution with sensor? The G3 sensor seems a lot better than the old 12mp sensor to me.
Funny, I thought it was a mock-up based on the GF1 the first time I saw the pics, before realising it is in fact different.
So it seems like Panasonic woke up and decided to provide a natural upgrade path for the owners of the deprecated GF1 as well as GF2.
Not a bad camera. Not winning me over the E-P3 still.
Thanks Admin, very nice reporting.
what is under that clip in hot-shoe cover on the rear of the camera?
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc498/43rumors/Schermata10-2455864alle063831.png
Its a secret port ..that takes you to a wormhole where everyone gets the camera that they imagined! 🙂
This looks almost exactly like my olympus e p 3
How depressing is that?
Not the camera, but that Panasonic know how to come up with the very minimum required to keep us interested in m43?
I think like when the GF1 was introduced, people will like this GX1 replacement much more once they get it their hands and use it. The pictures of either do not look necessarily very inviting as they look larger than they are but that perception will change once you get to feel one.
Much of the disappointment on this forum is because Pany did produce a couple cameras the LC1 and L1 which everone now wished to have only in a smaller form factor. Little doubt from the rumors but what the next m4/3 from Pany will be to accompany the larger faster X lens to be announced in January 2012.
I would have loved to see this GX1 model like the fake ones shown earlier on 43rumors but Pany management apparently deciding on making the designers use as much of the GF2 body and innards as possible to keep manufacturing costs down rather than a bolder all new product we were hoping for? Maybe they will do the same with the next one with EVF using basically the G3 with its swivel screen but an all new L1 like body?
Pany still has an opportunity as apparently tests are showing the NEX7 or A77 24mp sensor is no better at noise or high ISO than the m4/3 sensors. Sony should have stayed with the better 16MP one used in the NEX5N but that will be at least another year away for the NEX7?
It’s funny how the same people who whined about the GF2, wanted a “REAL” update to the GF1. Now that a true update to that camera is shown, everyone’s in a uproar.
I kinda like it.
What a cheap design!
Do they think the metal buttons make the camera look better? This is a cheap LX5’s big brother. GF1 looks 100 times better.
I have a GF1 and looking at the pictures of GX1 and comparing can find very little change in the substantial metal body outside of a better more substantial grip and using the better GF2 flash which can bounce. Internally that is another story as the GX1 reportedly has much better high ISO with its sensor and new processor, faster AF, less noise, among other items not to mention the new compact X zoom lens.
I have mixed feelings about the styling of this camera. While they are moving BACK in the right direction, they are falling a little short of a true next generation. They really need to start listening to what people want…. Built-in EVF and a tilt screen….
I am curious about the speed of this camera. My GF2 just isn’t fast enough to capture images of my twins. I may step up and get this camera, but the performance has to wow me.
Otherwise, I’m holding out hope for the GF Pro…..
This would have made a nice entry camera into the M4/3 game by in 2009. Has anyone considered sending Panasonic HQ a photo of a Fuji X100? Maybe they are not to date on current trends.
In fairness, if it comes in at under $200 I’d consider one for my mother.
Why Japanese designers tend to put too much letter’s on their products?
Looks like it has got a more ergonomic grip than the GF1. Good news.
But?! Can you call that an “expert” camera?! Not at all.
No viewfinder, no design adaptation for experts… And there is an IA button? What the hell, does experts need IA?!
I was expecting a camera to replace my GF1, which is nice but to noisy and not good enough in high ISO. The external viewfinder is also not good enough to me.
I’m disapointed, the design is awful (GF1 one is so much better), there is no major new NEEDED features…
I will never buy this camera. What is Panasonic doing? It’s like they promised us a nice expert generation of cameras with the GF1, we bought lenses and accessories, and now they only propose us this crappy camera?!
Next Panasonic camera has to be GF Pro or I will sell my pana stuff and turn myself to Fuji.
I actually like the iA button. There are times where my wife will borrow the camera, and I showed her how to simply use that button. It works great for somebody who has no idea what they are doing….
It’s just another button, get over it. In addition, it may be able to be remapped to another “pro level” function. How is the design so awful compared to a GF1, the design is almost identical to the GF1.
Hey look they added a dial to the to of a GF2! And made the grip better. Waiting to see what the real specs & I.Q. are but doubtfull that I would buy one without built in EVF. Anyone who was waiting to see what panny came up with before purchasing nex7, will now pull the trigger I assume..
Sweet!
Bundle this with the new EVF for under $950 and it’s a winner. Unlike the NEX-7, these manual controls should be hard wired. Agree that most (real) photographers want a viewfinder, but the portability of it being removable can be a great plus for travelling.
But then it could be a liability for travelling, since it’s more one thing to lose. I actually like the NEX-7 in this regard, the body is the same size and EVF is built in.
Eh, but I’ll live with a 1.44M external EVF. I really can’t stand the G3’s faux DSLR styling haha!
I was waiting for Panny’s response before buying the NEX-7, and this is actually good enough – if it will save me a couple hundred USD, I’ll get the Panny instead.
I think it will be an innovative new Accu that requires less capacity … ; °)
As others have said, this is indeed the reincarnation of the GF1 with a better sensor. No adequate reason – at least for me – to abandon my GF1. We shall see if the new external EVF is backwards compatible. And if the kit lens is also. Will try to wait for the NEX7 fighter. Make it happen ASAP, Panasonic!
Wow I’m loving this camera. It has some decent direct controls, IS in the lens and I’m sure the picture quality will be just fine.
I think you all need to chill out and get some perspective here. This will be a good tool. I shoot professionally for magazines and ads and a camera like this would work. I was given an EPL1 from Olympus for their Penready project and I used it on a few jobs already next to my MKII as a test.
See I’ve been a 4/3 user since day one. I was supported by Olympus with the E1 and I still have images in my book from it I show to clients. The E1 was 5MP!
Even if you’re making large prints any of the 4/3 cameras will do great.
Yes it would be nice to have an EVF built in but who cares. Just buy it and go take great photos.
The one thing Panasonic can’t upgrade is your ability to take good shots. Study and shoot, upgrade your skills and its not going to matter what you shoot with.
I am looking forward to this camera.
so true Giulio
yeah I agree. The first thing I worry about for any camera is being able to find the ISO and change the aparture and shutter speed without any fuss. I see all the buttons I want there. I wished for more dials but the Panasonic click wheel system is okay, and at least the GX1 has a mode dial, a luxury in mirrorless compacts these days it seems :/
This to be more important my photography than any auto panaroma or high ISO noise performance. And I shoot a lot of panaromas, so I don’t say this lightly.
Who was the photographer of these images GX1? Panasonic’s left eye was the house and test photographer?
A good example of nonsensical narrow DOF with product pictures.
Real bad …
This is a leaked picture, not a product image, idoit
A GF1 looking cam, including thumb wheel, but with more modern things. Great.
If the body is even as robust as the GF1’s, display has better resultion, autofocus is fast and the price is not too much higher than the GF3’s, then this is exactly what I want.
Is this a prototype version of GF1?
Hopefully that grip is removable.
And thank god no gimmick swivel tilt screen!
Very disappointed that it doesn’t have at least the pivoting LCD from the G3 (the G3 LCD is slim enough to be a perfect addition for this camera) – I was on holiday abroad recently and frequently struggled to clearly see the screen in bright sunlight on my GF1. It is the depth of the viewfinder of the G3 that stopped me from buying it.
Retaining the MF button of the GF1 is great news as I find myself using MF quite often – especially for close up shots such as individual plants where the autofocus often picks up the background instead of the subject.
For me sensor quality is the key issue – I would like improved dynamic range (rather than high ISO capability) as the sky too frequently ‘burns out’ on the GF1. Im no expert but I am sure that dynamic range could be improved on small sensors. I appreciate the limits of pixel area but couldn’t they use a multi-layer 3D sensor design to store more charge per pixel?
I guess we have to accept, that this is NOT the long awaited rangefinder with build-in VF. However, it seems the right successor of the well-selling GF1.
The images show:
* better control layout than all the PENs (separation between wheel and four way selector) and the NEX-7 due to dedicated, labeled (!) controls
* good to see separate AF/MF and AE/AF Lock buttons
* great that the body seems to have some thickness and is not so tiny and awkward to hold as EPL-3.
It won’t beat the NEX-7 in many ways (wasn’t intended for), but from what is shown, to date it clearly beats the EP-3.
I don’t really care about “beating” anything. Your photography depends on the absolute utility of the tool (the camera) and not the relative. My question is more “is it a useful tool for taking photos?” E-P3? Yes. NEX-7? Almost certainly will be. GX-1? Looking pretty good.
Of course, everyone has their own requirements. Let it be, variety is the spice of life. But if it fits the minimium, it’s a good enough camera for me.
Wow !! Spend 2 years (3 generations) designing a camera like this…. pretty ! Thanks you Pan !! saved me money …..
Guys!
According to your opinion the GF3 also was just a “minor” upgrade – and definitely not worth to launch a new camera. But – as it turned out – the GF3 had to become the sexiest mirrorless camera ever made.
So, don’t worry. Even considering the GX1 as a minor upgrade, it’s definitely a really nice piece hence should be welcomed.
I don’t see any differenciation to the E-P3. And given we know the specs already (basically a repackaged G3), we can be pretty sure the E-P3 is the better camera. Also, the E-P3 looks like a camera, not an electronics gadget like the GX1. I like the design of my GF1 much better. It’s certainly less pushy on observers compared the GX1 with all those shiny stupid labels all over the body. Olympus gets it, Panasonic gets worse with every camera.
I am going to sell my E-PL1, I’ll keep my GF1, probably for another year. Maybe I’ll give in in between and buy the E-P3, but I want to wait a bit and see if Olympus is smarter than Panasonic.
If it has a multi-aspec 16MP sensor, then I’m likely to be in. If it’s just a new “regular” 16MP sensor, then I’m out. I wish it had a built-in EVF, but you can’t have everything now can you?
It took a while for the initial shock to set in, but after looking at the images multiple times I personally like the fact that this camera looks “slapped” together. I hate walking in public with a camera that looks “classy” and expensive. This GX1 looks like it was assembled using a bunch of old droid parts from a starwars movie set. Sweet! The silver Oly 45mm will just add to the mess. Cant wait! Get that slow, stupid power zoom lens off there and put a real lens on. Haha.
Body size looks perfect (just slightly smaller than GF1), grip looks comfortable and useful, all the buttons that make me enjoy shooting with he GF1 are exactly where I want them and there is an additional FN button which is useful.
If this camera can capture “useable” images at higher than iso200 (which the GF1 can not achieve for the most part IMO) than it will be the perfect upgrade to my GF1.
Having an extra stop or two of DR over the GF1, and at least 5fps shooting would be nice additions as well. I’m so glad Panny made the design similar to the GF1. It seems to be exactly what we have been asking for (minus the trendy RF-style built in VF that would have added another $500 to the price tag). I’ll take the free flash instead thanks.
The last piece to the puzzle is price. Need body only and EVF to be under $1000 all-in ($599 body and $199 EVF).
Does anyone have personal experience comparing GF1 and G3 sensors at iso 400? Please tell me there is distinctly less noise on the G3 images at iso 400? I find the GF1 starts getting ugly color noise above iso 200 unless shooting in ideal lighting conditions. I primarily use the 20mm f/1.7 and 45mm f/1.8. Any opinions regarding iso would be greatly appreciated. I’ve seen lots of sample comparisons but I’d love to hear from someone who has had the same issue with iso 400 noise on GF1 and has compared directly with the G3 16mp sensor. Thanks.
Buy a fast lens and ISO 800 is all you will need
The G3 sensor is fantastic! –much better at high iso than the GF1. But of course at lower ISO below 800 you might not see the difference. I like the 16mm file size…larger than that would be too much for my computer right now.
BTW, I also like the on/off button, which is now the same as from the G and GH series. The GF1 had a slider button, which is not as easy to operate.
i own the G3, and have owned the GF1 in the past. G3 has a much better sensor by far. G3 iso is usable up to 800, 1600 is good too honestly.
the GF1 is best at 400, usable up to 800.
G3 is much sharper, better all around.
That is great to hear. Thanks for sharing that Kenn. Sounds like this GX1 has the potential to be a “significant” improvement over the already great GF1. I was worried for a bit, now I’m just pumped to shoot with the GX1.
Actually this kicks NEX 5n to the curb
Perty: you can say that again!
Think it looks like a nice camera. plus for grip and size. Else it looks like it has a nice known interface for controlling the cam. Hope Panasonic will please us with some good internal upgrades. Because the look of this body is not a key selling point.
Personally I will wait for replacing my g2 (I like vf and adjustable lcd) and need weatherproof.
Yawwwwwwwwn…..
HA no one seem to mind that 5N and 5 looks almost 100% right with the exception of the location of the playback button, and people bitch about the updated GF1 look with much better grip
because there is NEX7 in Sony’s lineup
Plus we all know that Panasonic could come up with something better – like the L1 and LC1
@Nelson
The NEX-5 and 5N were announced about a year apart, and belong to the same product line. A drastic change in body design wasn’t expected. The GF1 and GX1 have more than 2 years between them, with the GX1 belonging to a new product line, supposedly aimed at enthusiasts. Most of us expected more.
Not all of us share your low standards.
Well last time I checked GX1 is aimed at 5N not 7, which is where the orgiinal GF1 were aiming at originally, given a lot of people want GF1 style successor so what do you expect? A complete different design aspect to GF1?
The GF1 wasn’t “aiming” at Sony products, because no Sony mirrorless cameras existed at the time.
The GF2 and 3 compete with the NEX-3/5/n, obviously, due to their smaller size and lack of external controls.
Because the GF line was split into a dumbed-down line (GF2/3) and an enthusiast line (GX), it was reasonable to expect that it would build upon the GF1’s design, rather than taking it backwards.
Last time I checked GX1 is aiming at same group as 5N, not 7, and given a lot of people want GF1 look alike successor so that do you expect? A radically design to GF1?
Unlike a lot of whinners I got M43 and 5N machines, pre-ordered NEX7 ( for profiting on ebay) and like to see how GX1 can perform
I like how you modified your comment from “GF1 style” to “GF1 look alike”. There’s a big difference, and it’s arguable whether people actually wanted the latter. The larger point, which you fail to understand, is that a product’s design can be improved incrementally, without redesigning it completely.
Unlike you, some of us don’t feel the need to defend a mediocre product as if it gave birth to us.
but all you do is whine and do nothing, at least I use my $$$ for action, if Panasonic and Olympus see how successful NEX-7 is for money grabbing maybe then they will learn their lesson
And I am not defending but merely comment on the phenomen I see on this site by whinners, too much whinning (and always change their stand constantly) and not much action
Spending money doesn’t really compensate for lack of thought. If there were a decent new product (like the NEX-7) to spend it on, enthusiasts would open up their wallets, and you might stop whining about random internet comments.
Everyone wins.
The NEX 5 and 5N do not look right. The LCDs on the 5 and 5N are unusable in bright light.
They lack the basic controls seen and nearly all m4/3 models, a mode dial. They also lack the second settings dial of the E-P3, G3 and GX1.
Only the low end E-PM1 and GF3 have the same absence of controls as the NEX 5 and 5N.
Have you actually used a NEX 5n??
Theres plenty of function buttons to shortcut the neccesary options.after setting them they become intuitive.
Mode dials are not overly important…either you shoot manual or aperture priority…it only takes a second to do.
Lcd screen is no more unusable outside than any other camera…unless I missed something when im struggling to see my GF1s screen outside.
Owning both m43 and Nex I can say this without biase.
Yes, I’ve used a NEX 5.
It takes longer than a second to quickly change between PASM.
If I spend $600 dollars on a camera I don’t want to spend those extra seconds moving between PASM.
If this is the future of m4/3, just end the suffering now.
Wow, it’s a 4.4 on USGS website(http://on.doi.gov/sYbqlg), not too small. I hope no one was hurt!
It looks like a Olympus E-PL2, but with less style.
I like it!
I actually think it looks really relly good.
I would’ve bought it if it had a built in EVF. Now it’s just a GF1. A very nice GF1. I hope it will sell. Maybe the next version will have something to upgrade to
it’s not perfect, but from a control standpoint it certainly is alot better than nex 5n, not even including the lens issue.
I do not see any sense in cameras without articulated screens. It not about not having ergonomic freedom – it is about having ergonomic slavery (one always must shoot with head attaching perpendicularly to the screen).
And there is not much compromise with size in having the articulated screens (maybe few millimeters in thickness). So there is no rational excuse for not doing this.
I do want to see 3 lines of G cameras:
1. no embedded viewfinder + articulated screen.
2. viefinder + articulated screen (like G2 – but not castrated G3);
3. viewfinder + articulated screen + metal Pro body (like GH2 but in pro body) + battery pack, Bluetooth 3.0, WiFi/GPS module, control from Android phones via Bluetooth/WiFi.
The life shows that other marketing plans of Panasonic (G3, GF2, GF3) are not much welcomed.
I do not say about opening cameras for the third party Apps (or even having Android OS on it) – is is not to be expected from the Japanese.
3. viewfinder + articulated screen + metal Pro body (like GH2 but in pro body) + battery pack, Bluetooth 3.0, WiFi/GPS module, control from Android phones via Bluetooth/WiFi.
I mean battery grip like on other pro DSLR from Canon/Nikon.
The GH2 is surprisingly tough. Metal skinned bodies deform – plastic bounces off. As long as you have really solid internal frameplates everything that is bolted on can be repaired at low cost. Think of a truck body and running gear bolted to a strong ladder frame, versus a typical unibody car – which one is the more expensive to fix?
A tilting screen is a real bonus for waist level shooting, close to the ground macro work, and shooting from a tripod. Hopefully the GX++ will have that. For eyelevel shooting the new external EVF will be better than the internal one in the G3/GH2.
Why a battery grip? Just buy an extra battery and keep it in your pocket. If you are going to hack for a 176Mbit rate you are into serious filming and you will need a rig, so plenty of room to hang on a big external battery. Battery grips are a holdover from SLR days, when one was shooting masses of film – really bad idea for the m43 world.
> The life shows that other marketing plans of Panasonic (G3, GF2, GF3) are not much welcomed.
Any concrete sales data? (In)official word from Panasonic? Or you just pulled it?
> I do want to see 3 lines of G cameras:
LOL. You forgot the kitchen sink.
Are you are going to buy all 3 of them?
The more posts like this I see more I am convinced that people commenting here are just into commenting – not into buying a new camera.
Instead of all the whining, why not write down a realistic feature list for a camera and the price you (yes, you personally) would be willing to pay for it? If Panny people would be scanning the replies here, a concrete camera for a concrete person has much more value to them than piles of “wishful thinking” cameras.
Unfortunately, the GF2, GF3 and now the GX1 show that those who frequent this forum are not the customers Panasonic cares about. Between the excitement for the X100 (particularly because of its manual controls and VF) and the ongoing demand for a built-in EVF in a *rangefinder body* and/or tilting LCD, they’ve had their pick of features to add.
Seems like Sony has been paying attention to forums like these better than Panasonic.
> a *rangefinder body*
I’m intrigued about the definition of the RF body.
It seems everybody just cry wolf for VF on the left side. It’s kind of a weak to pass for a definition.
My personal problem are the controls – and I doubt that return to RF past would solve any of them. RFs were designed around the problems of the past. IMO today’s cameras should be designed to solve problems of today. E.g. focus by touch is a great feature AND solves the real problem, but you can’t use it via VF because, well, humans don’t have fingers protruding from the eyes.
What I’m trying to get to, is that people whine here loudly “give us RF-like body” – but they do not even bother to describe what their photographic problems that supposed to solve.
yeah okay.. I sure want my camera with unmarked dials and weak lenses, not to mention paying top dollar.
That’s some good listening.
“””Instead of all the whining, why not write down a realistic feature list for a camera and the price you (yes, you personally) would be willing to pay for it? If Panny people would be scanning the replies here, a concrete camera for a concrete person has much more value to them than piles of “wishful thinking” cameras”””
I personally (I bet not only me) is eager to spend extra money for the i-Phone of micro43. But nobody gives it me this choice – aren’t they morons :).
The problem here is that Japanese engineers and even economists (take look at the recent scandal with Oly) are usually bed visionaries. They are even unable to capitalize on the monopoly.
The RF form makes the body more compact (no hump, lower-profile grip), which I prefer. It’s also nice to carry something that doesn’t look like a DSLR, and is better balanced with m4/3 primes. It’s allows the camera to be easier to carry, and less intimidating, which imo adds to its overall function, albeit in a less obvious way.
I agree, though, that the main issue is control, and think that the GX1 is a step backwards. Likewise, my main issue with the G3 is not the form factor, but stunting its functionality by taking away features such as the focus mode dial/switch, the drive mode lever, and eye-detection on the EVF.
The NEX-7, which is about the size of the GF1 (and a bit slimmer), is exactly the kind of camera I want out of Pany/Oly. Until then (or until Sony pulls out some miracle with their lenses/Fuji makes some amazing camera), my mirrorless will be a GF1, and my DSLRs will do the rest.
1. “Any concrete sales data? (In)official word from Panasonic? Or you just pulled it?”
Sure, there are data presented on this site how Sony outperformed Panasonic/Oly in the Japanese mirrorless market. Google in help.
New NEX5 is the same class as GX1 but it has at least tilted screen – I am sure it is partly a key of its success, the same with the last Olies. From the engineering/price point of view there is no problem to make an articulated screen.
2. “LOL. You forgot the kitchen sink.”
You maybe laughing – it is your right, but most of my marketing forecasts till now were right. In fact Panasonic already have these three lines (GF: no EVF, G: EVF entry, GH EVF semi-pro), the only problem that they are do not clearly discriminate their niches.
At the end let’s make a poll and see how many of potential buyers want to have articulated screen on the GF/GX line.
3. “Instead of all the whining, why not write down a realistic feature list for a camera and the price you (yes, you personally) would be willing to pay for it?”
I already and with pleasure paid for G2. And I do not see the reason why its “upgrade” G3 occurs a castrated version of G2 in terms of ergonomics (no articulated screen, no manual video control, no mic socket). This is why I am thinking about the alternatives to Panasonic.
You see, in my case (and surely not only in mine) my marketing forecasts are working.
Agree GH2 is quite solid.
But
1. it is not a system camera – no GPS/WiFi/remote control.
2. It is not sealed/nor weather proof.
3. Towards battery grip: if you do a lot of video it is a very worthy thing. Also you can use chip AAA batteries with it – not the Panasonic one.
4. “””Why a battery grip? Just buy an extra battery and keep it in your pocket. If you are going to hack for a 176Mbit rate you are into serious filming and you will need a rig, so plenty of room to hang on a big external battery”””
Why do I need rig if there is a battery grip. For my purpose there no need in rig, but I easily see need in the battery grip.
Overall GH2 is way not a system Pro camera (I mean Pro not in the sense of image quality but in terms of robustness/system-ness).
And in conclusion: I predicted that GX is a mediocre camera, and the “marketing research” among qualified users above does prove this:
Nothing special. (60%, 2,131 Votes)
It’s a very nice camera! (26%, 936 Votes)
I don’t like it at all! (14%, 513 Votes)
Total Voters: 3,580
I suppose it is very representative.
For me… a design of this GX1 is not that bad. i’m OK with this GF1 style with a better grib 🙂
about evf… if the GX1 + external EVF are cheaper than NEX7…. i think i can deal with it ^o^
I’d love to see a direct size comparison with the GF1, because the body looks really extremely similar.
Good idea to give the Q. Menu button a double function, because it is actually quite useless.
i like it, the best thing about this camera is the grip and the black colour with silver buttons, it looks like handling will be neat, and much better grip than the flat styled ep-3 or gf-1. the grip reminds me very much of the legendary hexar-af, if panasonic releases a pro (x- or whatever…) 17 f1.4 lens, i will buy it immediately, together with this camera, i also hope that the flash can be bounced like on the L1
Essentially our m43 cameras are only meant to be travel cameras that narrowly beat out a LX5. For image quality all Nex camera are and will be superior. This is a sad state of affairs. The reason I want to pull my hair out is that if Panasonic wanted to outsource a superior sensor and develop a much better external viewfinder it could, they have had 3 years to do it. For all the forum users that suggest if you want a better featured m43 camera that you should buy a GH2 or G3. – put a sock in it. As for complaining, I say we have NOT complained enough. Panasonic execs should be fired! We could have won this mirrorless war!! M43 is the best system but the crappiest sensor and Panasonic is clearly retarded. Amy Winehouse could have done a better job for M43 marketing and strategy.
I think that the NEX 7 is setting a new standard of features. With the GX1 we are probably getting a camera designed 2 years ago.
So to me the question is: will we see a built in EVF in an O&P rangefinder body by Spring?
Consider the X200 coming and the competition is getting hard to beat. Yes we have the lenses, yes the resolution, but APS will have more DR and more high ISO. If Sony starts to make pancakes or folding lenses, it will become hard to beat.
I see the problem for Oly more than for Panny, although I dislike faux-dSLR and don’t care about video. Oly must have a built in EVF, and compete with small HG lenses.
“””Essentially our m43 cameras are only meant to be travel cameras that narrowly beat out a LX5. For image quality all Nex camera are and will be superior.”””
IQ of M43 reached the level necessary for professional work. Where G line fails is in the robustness/system-ness areas. The problem that people in Panasonic do not understand which niches it opens fixing these two issues – at least on the GH line.
Wow. You can see the how much people really want out of this format from the comments. I agree with most of what’s been said here. When I first saw the pictures I was like: REALLY!, a GF1 with a grip and a new sensor! But then I thought about it, I never had much to complain about the form factor of the GF1 but had considered getting a half case with a gripe for it. I was really yearning for a better sensor and was impressed with the G3’s image quality. And I always liked the tilt-able viewfinder but the resolution sucked. So, I guess a this is kind of what I had been hoping for. Now all that need to be resolved is the price. I bought in to the GF1 early and payed a premium price for the body and the viewfinder. I’m hoping it won’t be as heavy for this model. If it is I may go for the G3 instead.
Three questions Panasonic. can this sensor beat the (any)Nex, Samsung mirrorless or Fuji x100 on any of these specs:
Image quality?
Colour depth?
Low light performance?
umm. no. Why would the GF1 owners (that want to upgrade) upgrade for a sensor that is only 10% better and nothing else is really any better, it takes Panasonic 4 generations & 3 years to gain 10%. Where is my heart medication…
Cansalt: Ease down. The Pana G3 is well more than 10% better than the GF1 sensor!…and the new GX1 sensor is supposed to have a better processer…so i cant wait to see how the images look
thanks dj – I’m just going by the dxo mark labs the GF1 scores 54 for image quality and the G3 is 56 the GH2 is 60. Ok time to go for a nice hot bath and breath slowly.
and actually according to dxo, the g3 sensor is worse in color depth than the gf1.
gf1 21.2 bits
g3 21 bits
i think panny is spending to much time worrying about high iso for soccer mums who want to take pictures of their kids indoors, rather than enthusiasts who would use a speedlight or 2 to get a decent portrait.
i bet we still cant use the viewfinder and a wireless trigger at the same time with the new gx1 🙁
Might drive the price of used a GF1 down?
Or up?
Maybe increases the demand of NEX-7? Sony is already promising better lenses.
Fuji and Leica mirrorless systems are still a ways off.
Most Nikon v1 buyers are Nikon DSLR owners that want a travel camera
Alot of Nex buyers are disenfranchised M43 potential buyers and or upgraders from the mediocre Panasonic offerings.
if only Sony had designed the Nex camera as a m43 camera – it would control 100% of the m43 marketing but no one would buy a Sony m43 lens. So I guess that is where we are now.
Um, the Leica and Fuji systems are meant to be “Premium” systems, meaning they’ll cost several thousand dollars apiece??
Maybe Canon will come up with a Mirrorless Camera that will make this whole conversation meaningless.
I’m waiting to see what Canon does as well. As for this camera, I wonder how much of a difference it is from the GF2. Being 2 lenses in (20mm/45/200mm), Canon has a small window to enlighten me.
I’m also hoping as it looks like it, that the older EVF I own fits on this one. Price is also a factor with this camera.
Are you suggesting people are leaving M4/3 for Sony?—really? If so then they can say goodbye to the 7-14, 12f2, 20 f1.7, 25mm f1.4, 45 f1.8 ,45 macro, 100-300 etc etc etc
….have fun with those bland Sony lenses….. well Sony has one nice lens but its big and too pricey…
Your right: Some Canon people are quite brainwashed ….I know a lot of canon DLSR owners and when they look for a point and shoot as a back up they buy canon without researching the other brands. ~Sad really
Well this Canon shooter uses a GF1 and all those lenses and more (except fot he 100-300mm), when I am not using my big FF rig.
I do not like any of Sony’s cameras. They are sad..the idea is GREAT…the implementation is truly soooo disappointing. It is obviously camera-by-committee. How could they screw something so great up so badly. Will some people leave MFT for Sony..I don’t know…but I just don’t see it for me.
Fuji or Canon are the only ones with the potential to bedazzle us! 🙂
Ive just sold my last m43 gear and using the Nex instead….this GX1 camera has pushed me over.
I dont miss the m43 lens selection at all….and I owned the 25mm f1.4 and 20mm f1.7.
I agree that native sony e mount lenses are crap but Ive stll plenty of lens choice and less crop…adapted lenses dont look any bigger than on the m43 systems and dont give darn about pancake lenses.
Ive a nice set of FDns and Voigtlanders….decent focus assist…and far better quality output.
The big lens arguement is getting boring…and always the first first thing m43 fanboys bitch about to Sony users. Brand loyalty only restricts you.
I personally like the sony Nex7 -just dont like the lenses thats all –mounting legacy glass sounds like a great idea. When I buy into a camera system i look at the lenses not just the bodies that’s why i choose M4/3: now i can shoot ultra wide (7-14mm) to super telephoto (100-300mm) with a compact system that i can carry in my shoulder bag…there’s no way the id get that small size and weight with the Sony System.
“Brand loyalty only restricts you.” that would be perfect for a t-shirt. Well Said!
I prefer to use adapted glass mainly due to cost/more choice and the ability to use my lens collectin on any mirrorless body I care to
.
If you buy lenses for a particular system (e mount/m43) its stuck to that system…especially these days with electronic connections and no aperture rings/fly by wire focusing.
Lenses are an investment bodies are not 😉
You shoot with a normal lens only…the Sony should be great for you. I had someone here on the site explain to me that because the Sony mount is so close to the sensor that the lenses will all have to be big and clunky. I do not know if he is correct…but based on what I have held in my hand he is correct.
Sony Fan Boys…check out the color shifts in the Steve Huff review with those legacy lenses…pretty drastic.
I use my MFT system to compliment my DSLR…I don’t think it would be my one and only system..The size and the lens choices makes it a great complementary system. The Sony give me nothing.
Sony has to make a decision;
-Either to adjust the microlenses of the sensor to match wideangle legacy lenses like what the Ricoh GXR with the M-adapter did, but this will ruin the use with more telecentric lenses, eg. kill the entire Sony E-mount lense suite.
-Most likely, necessitated with the short lens mount register of the NEX, Sony has optimised the microlenses for a narrow range of focal lengths: i.e. 24mm to 50mm in FX equivalents. However 24mm still seems a stretch for Sony, and most likely the telephoto users will be disappointed as well.
Microlenses can only compensate within a narrow range of focal lengths, a harder task for Sony if stretching the register mount to the extreme.
We might even in the future see Sony launching variants of their cameras with optimized microlense offsets targeted to wide, normal and tele users.
*Telecentric aspects cant be neglected, if optical performance are critical.*
Again you are talking pointless things.
Steve huff loves the 5N (has software correction)…its the 5 that he was less enthusiastic.
I go by what I have in my hands not what someone else thinks.
How expensive or how cheap this camera will be that’s the question…..and when this camera will be available is another question….for me as long as this camera much more cheaper from EP-3 or EPL-3 then the success of GX-1 is at horizon….but I’m afraid the price level would be so high that even me have to choose EP-3 instead rather than GX-1
Panasonic design team have major problem on taste. Besides. without EVF, cannot compete even with NEX5N, It is not a surprised that Panasonic became less popular…..
I hate NEX design, but X series are even worse. Too many letters and logos on the body and lens.
At the time of my post the majority have voted “Nothing Special” and that’s how I feel. In all honesty the GX1 does combine certain aspects of the G-series cameras that satisfies certain users. BUT the most desired features have been a built-in high-quality EVF and an articulating LCD screen. This camera has neither whereas the main competitor (read: SONY) has already done so. Looking at the camera it has nothing noteworthy feature-wise and I share everyone’s disappointment after all the hoping and waiting for something special for Christmas.
To me this camera feels more like an attempt by Panasonic to “empty its spare parts bin” and avoid making losses in the production lines with unused parts.
So its a GF1 with a grip.
If you were new to the Mirrorless camera market then this looks like a FABULOUS choice! GX1 with X kit zoom then add the ZD 12mm and 25mm f1.4: SWEET!
Sony, or Nikon dont have anything like those lenses!
I don’t need a swivel LCD or internal EVF. I like having a EVF that swivels, and can be taken off.
I will put up some specs that don’t fit me if the image quality is good and the AF is fast.
body looks good enough for me.
i just want to know what sensor, video specs, and cost of kit and external VF.
cost will make it or break it for me, because gh2 body is less than 800 right now.
It’s just a tweaked GF2 and shouldn’t cost much more than that.
Exactly. And I cant believe the extreme prices for the GF3 either.. its like a joke..
I think GX1 makes a lot of sense
1. GF3 is going to battle against NEX3, EPM1. Primarily for users who wants upgraded point and shoot
2. GX1 will be competing against EP3/EPL3/NEX5N. Primarily for users who wants compact camera with manual controls
3. G3 will be for people in 2nd group who needs EVF
4. GH3 will be for people who needs powerful video recording that G3 can’t accommodate.
Compared to Olympus/Sony/Samsung, Panasonic has 4 models while the other 3 vendor has 3 models. GF3/GX1/G3 should be able to compete well with EP3/EPL3/EPM1 and NEX3/5/7.
Why don’t people just get a G3 if they want built-in EVF?
Because the G3 is too much like a DSLR. Compare the NEX7 with a G3. I think it has most to do with the looks. At least, that’s it for me. I like rangefinder style bodies and would sooner buy a Leica M2 than a G3, but I would like to stay with digital.
this is another stupid answer, just because it LOOKS LIKE a DSLR. G3 has everything you want, but just because it looks like DSLR, this is a bad camrea. Another idiot.
Sorry dsaf, the look of the camera can be important for street shooting, where you don’t want to pointing a big SLR at strangers on a city street. Forbes is not alone.
There are a lot of Leica fans who want SLR performance *hidden* in a rangefinder style body. It’s not unreasonable to want an EVF as part of the package.
> a big SLR
> SLR performance *hidden* in a rangefinder style body
I was at an expo and held in my hands Leica M8.
It’s big, it’s heavy and it’s not something you can easily hide on a street. And lenses are not precisely pancakes either.
GH2 is diminutive in size/weight comparison to the M8. And G3 is even smaller than GH2.
You just confirmed that you do not have even slightest clue what you are talking about.
maybe is bigger but m8 has an classic design and cannot be compared with g3 witch is very common and bit ugly .
True dat! I was just walking down the street today and noticed someone was taking my picture. When I turned around and caught glimpse of her classically styled rangefinder camera, I made sure to quickly get back to what I was doing so as to not ruin her shot.
Later, some dude had what looked like a DSLR and I was all like what?! Naw, bro. Can’t take my picture because A) You’re not stealthy and B) DSLR styling? Ew, holmes.
I don’t get why a NEX-7 is less “hidden” than small cameras like a G3 or GH2 with their small lenses vs. NEX cameras with large lenses.
To me these people who think they need the EVF at the left side (calling that “rangefinder”) are just preoccupied.
People, who need cameras with a build-in viewfinder should be well enough served with the currently available solutions.
Fair enough, but the G3 isn’t exactly a “big DSLR”. The G3 is 115x84x47 compared to 139x80x37 for the Leica M9.
It seems that a lot of the whiners here want all the features that add size and weight (optical viewfinder, external dials, flip screens), but they want it in a body the size of the GF1.
Compare both the styling and the level of direct control between the M9 and G3. People often refer to the M9 for a reason and question why other manufacturers don’t make such an elegant camera.
Even if you don’t agree, there is still a market of enthusiasts willing to pay for classic styling and controls. I guess those same people are wondering why Panasonic hasn’t built a GF1 with added EVF and control dials. It might be a bit bigger, but it will sell. Just look at the X100 and NEX7, neither of which has the combined advantages of the m43 system. The m43 system has interchangeable lenses (X100 not) and nice compact lenses (Sony doesn’t).
The X100 has usability issues that to some extent stem from the fact that the mechanical controls are actually a facade built on top of a conventional digital camera. It is succesful and innovative, but has its limitations.
The Leica doesn’t have most of the features that the whiners insist on but it’s a compelling product. This market of enthusiasts who are willing to pay for this do have the M9 (-;
A mirrorless camera with a viewfinder could be a succesful product, but it would have its limitations. For example, how large would the camera be ? How ergonomic would it be with long tele lenses compared to a DSLR of about the same weight ? How would the mechanical controls play with the firmware ? I predict that this product would be very succesful, but it would still unleash the bitter rage of the whiners who would find a long list of complaints about this product that they had no intention of buying.
the Best way to shoot “hidden” from view is use the LCD not the VF…raising the camera to your eye draws attention.
The head bulge – which contains the flash and EVF – pushes me away from G3.
It’s not the look, but the portability. I think great portability + decent image is the reason for most of us adopting M43 cameras.
Sony somehow make the 2.4megadots EVF into the NEX7 with a body only tad-higher than NEX5. I do not know why Pannasonic cannot minimize her 1.44megadots EVF.
I mainly use pancake lenses with M4/3. With a big bulge head like GH and G has, I cannot tuck the G/GH into my day pack or gear bag, like I do with the GF2.
For every-day-carry without a dedicated camera bag, I tuck my GF2 in wherever possible.
For assignment or travel, I took my DSLR for pre-planned shooting; plus the GF for candid shots and occasions where I need to be discrete. DSLR system took most of the space. I tuck the GF in wherever possible.
I think many people shares my situation and that’s why we are craving for a GF with minimized yet decent EVF.
My only wish is now the Panasonic will release a plug-on EVF comparable to SONY’s, or at least reaching G3 EVF.
dsaf, just because I don’t like the look of a camera, does that make me an idiot?
Never said the G3 was a bad camera, I simply own a DLSR already and want something more rangefinder-like as a compliment. This is exactly why many people skip the G3. Just because you don’t agree does not make that opinion less valid, or justify childish name calling.
That was really uncalled for. People want what they want and people vote with their wallets.
I probably would have bought the G3 if it had different styling. To me it reminds me of one of those Kodak Easy Share cameras. That doesn’t make me an idiot; it just doesn’t appeal to me.
Part of photography is having fun. And if you’re having more fun with a RF style camera, then that’s your prerogative.
> That was really uncalled for. People want what they want and people vote with their wallets.
Seems to me that a lot of people vote by whining in rumors forums.
While others simply troll those forums and call people whiners, instead of contributing something intelligent.
A troll is one who seeks to provoke an angry discussion. This discussion got angry long before I had anything to do with it.
I would think that the real “trolls” here are those who are flooding a micro 4/3 forum with negative comments about micro 4/3 products.
I’ve posted a more lengthy response in the “new olympus/Panasonic/SLRMagic reviews” thread as to why I believe all this negativity is unwarranted.
So was my comment negative according to you?
If you think that, you are dead wrong.
I have nothing negative to say about the G3. I never did and never will do because it is a very nice camera. I’ve seen samples with the 25 summilux and those were simply amazing.
The thing is, I own a DSLR and want something with a different styling, rangefinder styling. I know I am not the only one, that is why the NEX7 is attracting so much attention. For me it has not so much to do with size, just styling and controls (like tri-navi on the NEX7).
I don’t get why saying I don’t care for the G3 styling is supposed to be negative. It’s just an opinion and I know there are others who feel the same.
No, I wasnt specifically referring to your comment. It’s your prerogative if you don’t want a G3. My comment was directed more at the posts that insist that “any camera must have features (a), (b), (c) ” and posts that express the “want” that all the best features of all cameras be “combined” (which is often kind of like trying to “combine” a 40x super zoom with a full frame sensor, or “combine” the Nokton f/.95 aperture with panasonic’s 14-140mmm zoom)
I’m in a similar boat to you — 5D Mark II owner, looking for something that offers good IQ in a compact package. So far I’m probably going with a GF2 (and it’s definitely going to be one of the rangefinder style bodies) — really needs to be pocketable. I completely get the need for a body that is substantially different to a large DSLR.
I’d love a built in viewfinder, but I’m not going to get up and slam Panasonic and Olympus because they dont deliver every item on my wishlist. Ultimately, I’ll look at the available products and pick the one that offers the best trade offs. There is already an affordable RF style body with a built in viewfinder (the X100) but at least for me, the m43 options are better packages overall.
True, a lot of people are unrealistic with their wishes.
I held the GF2 a few weeks ago, but thought it was too small. I’ve also thought about an X100 or even M2, but agree that m43 has very good options. This GX1 with the 20mm could be a very nice combo at less cost than an X100. So far, however, nothing has really convinced me and I’m probably going to wait for Fuji and Leica.
haha, thank goodness this community is populated people like dsaf who helpfully point out which answers are stupid, which people are idiots, and which cameras people should want… instead of what they think they want.
Why don’t we get a G3? Because of this:
http://www.radiantlite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/panasonic-g2-gf1-side.jpg
Without a lens, the G3 is almost twice as thick as the GF-2 and also 1.5 cm higher. Two-third of that extra thickness come from the viewfinder protrusion but looking at a X100 which has a thickness (excluding the lens) of 37 mm, just a few millimetres more than the GF-2, shows that you can create a decent viewfinder without the G3 thickness. And the G3 handgrip might be useful for larger lenses but for small lenses we do very fine without it.
All we want is the G3 sensor + GF-2 chassis + X-100 electronic viewfinder.
That picture shows a G2, not a G3.
FAIL
That picture is misleading – the two cameras are not aligned – look at the back of the lenses. They have aligned the front of the grip of the G2 with the front of the GF1.
This picture actually confirms that they are more or less the same size, but the G2 has a grip and an EVF.
+100 That photo is rigged. Misaligned and a pancake vs. a zoom that’s fully extended. Right. Put the SAME lens on both!
Well, and to compare body size, you align the bodies not the body+lenses. My point clearly was that the G3 body is significantly thicker than the GF2 body (and higher) and that it is possible to create a much smaller viewfinder as demonstrated by the X100 (with the viewfinder contributing most to the size difference between the G3 and GF2).
“This picture actually confirms that they are more or less the same size, but the G2 has a grip and an EVF.”
Sure, and all I and a lot of others have been saying is that what we want is a m43 camera with a viewfinder that (a) does not have such a large grip and (b) has a much smaller viewfinder (ie, something like the X100 viewfinder).
(I apologize for using a G2, I just googled for a comparison picture of the G3 and GF2 and this came up.)
If you want a Fuji X100, just get the fuji X100 and stop whining.
Designing a viewfinder for an interchangeable lens camera is not the same as designing one for a camera with a single prime lens.
He doesn’t want an X100, he wants an X100-style body with interchangeable lenses.
Reading helps. Try it sometime.
> he wants an X100-style body with interchangeable lenses.
As I wrote,
Designing a viewfinder for an interchangeable lens camera is not the same as designing one for a camera with a single prime lens.
Reading helps. Try it sometime.
> If you want a Fuji X100, just get the fuji X100 and stop whining.
That’s pretty much an instruction to buy an X100.
He doesn’t want one.
Reading your own posts also helps.
I wasn’t “instructing anyone to do anything.
My point is that a manufacturer can’t orthogonally “combine” features. It’s like trying to “combine”Noktons f/.95 aperture with Panasonic’s f/.95 aperture, or “combine” a 40x superzoom with an m43 sensor.
The X100 is designed from the bottom up to have a single fixed lens. In particular, when they build the viewfinder, they know what lens it’s going to be used with.
> Designing a viewfinder for an interchangeable lens camera is not the same as designing one for a camera with a single prime lens.
Of course it’s different, but what are you implying? That it’s impossible or more complicated to do so in our MILCs? In fact, from what I’ve read about the X100’s viewfinder, it’s supposedly a pretty sophisticated system (a hybrid system). Probably even more difficult to implement than the EVFs in current MILCs.
I’m just pointing out that you can’t arbitrarily mix and match features.
There already are mirrorless cameras with viewfinders, so it’s clearly not impossible. More complicated ? It almost certainly would be more complicated, because it has to work well with a range of focal lengths including teles (“work well” doesn’t just imply compatibility, it means the whole package has to be ergonomic)
> It almost certainly would be more complicated, because it has to work well with a range of focal lengths including teles
I don’t see how that adds any complication at all. An EVF is nothing more than a small screen displaying a video signal coming from the sensor/processor, and since the video signal is an exact copy of what is already being displayed on the rear LCD, there’s hardly any extra work for the camera to do. The EVF itself doesn’t have to ‘handle a range of focal lengths.’ At least that’s how I see it.
elflord, after reading some of your other comments about the viewfinder, it occurs to me that perhaps there’s been a misunderstanding about what we’re actually talking about. Based on what you’ve said, it sounds like you might actually be referring to an optical viewfinder (OVF)? That would indeed be much more complicated, bulky, and downright unpractical to try to implement in our MILCs. But an electronic viewfinder (EVF) should not be at all complicated, nor should it require much space in a camera body. Sony proves this with the EVF in their NEX 7, and that is part of why so many of us are so annoyed that PanOly have yet to do this in an m43 body.
Well photorumors says the GX1 hat 12 (!!) MPixel! No word, if its the old sensor or a new one. But 12 MPix, and not the G3 sensor. And the autor is pretty sure about this, because the GX1 was already kind of “announced”, thats why we have such good photos now.
If the 12MP is true, I got to say eurrrrrrrrrrk panny. The 12MP live MOS maybe a good fast-reading chip when it was born. But wake-up! Now there are tons of competitor on the market. The DR of that 12MP sensor is really really bad. I have my GF2 but the dead-white highlight is driving me away from it.
Panasonic has fabrication technology to make good sensors, just look at the GH1 & GH2 for video, which has digital output, similar to the Sony for APS-C.
But also like Canon does with their latest 1DX, analog output from the sensors, but with clever noise suppression techniques, which Panasonic uses with the G3 sensor.
We know that Olympus is conservative and seems not want to leave the 12 Megapixel plateau for their sensors, so one could speculate that the new volume seller of the Panasonic sensors are using the G3 sensor technology, but implemented at the 12 Megapixel level instead of the originally 16 Megapixel.
This would result in combining the Olympus FAST (Frequency Acceleration Sensor) Autofocus with Panasonics low-noise achievements from the G3 sensor, making that combo enough competitive.
GH2 hacked version gains advantage from high bit-rate output of the video, not necessarily from sensor superiority. The NEX-5n sensor is the heart of Sony’s FS100 and F3. And those two beast are in a total different league.
From my experience with Panasonic’s AG-AF100 (same sensor as GH2) and Sony’s FS100 camcoder, I’d admit the latter wins the IQ department.
Yea, the highlight problem is the worst thing with m43.. If they could just put a good sensor in them with around 12-13 steps of DR.. Then I would have gotten all models in the program.. Why do they refuse to do something good?!
G3 is already small enough for street shooting isn’t it? now you’re talking about the look, not the size. why can’t you point a small camera on the street? G3 is no way bigger than NEX-7. having an extra EVF gives even more flexibiliy than making the camera bigger. what you talk about is no longer someone who shoots, but how someone shoots at you.
Some weeks ago, most sources assumed it had an EVF, but this turned out to be wrong.
Release it with the old 12 MP sensor is suicide – simply for marketing. If it’s new, I would assume it gets leaked easier, since it would be a major selling point. Especially after the press release and the leak, this should be imminent.
FAKE !!!
someone is really having fun, glued program-mode wheel and some lame-looking grip to GF2 and here we are…can’t be serious to believe this shots
totaly fake
And they also, moved the mics, redesigned them, moved the hotshoe a bit back, moved the iA-button, redesigned the front, added a button on the back, changed another and did it consistently on 11 images. It’s just got to be fake.
I have to Agree with you on this one..It looks to Fake…Ill wait until Nov 8 to see what is actually announced before I say anything
This is just how the GF2 should have been, with two years late!
+1
Exactly. Let’s hope it’s 2011 level on the inside…
Meh. Not for me. It also looks desperate. GF1/2 body with an after-thought grip tacked on. They got caught off gaurd. Either the EP3 is selling really well, or the NEXs are selling better than though. But a grip won’t offset the NEX 7 advantages. I’ll stick with my Pens for now.
Pretty amusing to compare the lousy pana sonsors in their strongest discipline, noise battles. Get real even 24 mp sony sensors run circles around anything put in a olympus or panasonic camera
Boring is all I can say, Panasonic have lost it. After having the best mirrorless camera out there with the GF1 they have not released anything of interest and unless their sensor has been massively improved it will still not hold up well against APS sensors.
For me 4/3 has only one thing over the much better designed and looking NEX7 or especially GXR and this is the selection of good and small AF lenses. If you want to use legacy lenses the GXR is the first choice followed by the NEX7.
Looking at this shows why it was a good decision to sell off almost all my m4/3 gear and only keeping the GF1 for use with the Nokton f0.95 and the 7-14mm zoom.
I am really disappointed by the look of this and I do really hope it is a fake. I don’t think it is though. I really don’t want to sell my GF1 and lenses for a Nex-7 but I might just have to!!
I don’t want to wait indefinitely for Panasonic to produce a genuine contender.
A Nex-7 without lenses wont do you much good though.
Sad. Panasonic just don’t get it. They have stopped thinking creatively. Panasonic need a change of management in the design department (as do Olympus…). Sony is finally getting back on track (as well as Fuji). The NEX7 is what a lot of serious photographers with a sense of good design want (this cam is what the evolution of the F707 should have been). They need to work on their lens lineup though. Pana still got an edge there. My M43 collection of lenses will still be used occasionally with my GF1 and GH1, but it certainly looks like I will have to buy into the Sony NEX system. Well lets hope for some more fast NEX primes and a well designed Fuji small size interchangable system (pretty sure the view finder will be there).
I just thought of something… What if this isn’t the semi-pro level camera everyone’s been hoping for but just another point & shoot toy! Maybe they have a camera in the works that people might actually give a crap about! Well, one could hope. I just hope the big heads down at Panasonic don’t think the difference between a point & shoot and a semi-pro camera is the addition of a grip.
Hopefully both Panny and Oly are waiting until Photokina to announce their “Pro” μ4/3 cameras (as Fuji are with their upcoming system). That, however, begs the question of the purpose of the GX1.
It took my a couple of days to give my final verdict. It is an ugly camera. I own a L1. That camera has the shape of a brick. A beautiful brick. Yes, I’m biassed. This camera is less bricky. And being less bricky is not always a good thing.
I’m going to wait for the pro gf7 which will obviously be releases with the 12-35mm f2
How are you sure a GF is comming???
I’m going to wait for the pro gf7 which will obviously be released with the 12-35mm f2
I’m going to wait for the pro gf7 which will obviously be released with the 12-35mm f2.
Is that grip removable/replaceable for a less ugly one ? Complete mismatch to the body design.
BTW; is this now finally the m43 article with the most comments?
goes to show how many were looking forward to the gx1 and are dissapointed…Wonder if Panasonic realise?
There are certainly a lot of posts, but to be fair about half of them are basically to the same effect:
WAAAAAAAHHH! I am SO DISAPPOINTED and FEEL BETRAYED and MY LIFE IS LIKE OVER. Even though I don’t really know anything about PANYSONIC’s manufacturing capabilities/market research/sales figures/anything of relevance, PANACONIC is clearly doing something COMPLETELY WRONG because this camera isn’t what I want! Why doesn’t PANSONIC know ANYTHING about the camera business???!! Why didn’t they listen to ME? MEMEMEME. MEEEEEEEEE! I am PROSUMER/SEMIPRO/ARTIST. SERIOUSLY I AM THE PEOPLE YOU GUYS!!! Sure I don’t know the specs or the price, and am basing my opinion entirely on some heavily distorted pics of the body, but these are MINOR DETAILS – this GX1 is OBVIOUSLY a PIECE OF JUNK/TOY/P&S/POS/CAM FOR ORANGUTANS! Why couldn’t it have been more like the NEX7/D3s/M9P/LEICA S??! Why couldn’t the GRIP have been bigger/smaller/fuchsia/made of edible marshmallow? PANSONIC is CLUELESS. If I ran PANNASONC all other camera makers would be out of business TOMORROW because I would make the PERFECT CAMERA STRAIGHT AWAY for ONLY $99. I am pretty sure that PNASONIC is withholding the PERFECT CAMERA just to spite me. WHY doesn’t PANSAONIC care about me?!? If only PANASONICC would give me the cam I want I would DEFINITELY be the new HCB surrounded by lots of HOT BABES! SERIOUSLY the only thing that is holding me back right now is the GF1’s ANTIQUATED 12MP SENSOR/lack of integrated EVF/lack of integrated NESPRESSO MACHINE. GAH. Why must I work with such SUBSTANDARD tools? Now I know how VAN GOGH must have felt when he CUT OFF HIS OWN EAR. Why does PANNASONIC hate me so much?! Why didn’t my father HUG me when I was a child? GIMME MY CONSUMER GOODS. OMG PAONASONIC is DEFINITELY DEAD NOW and I am DEFINITELY jumping ship to NEX/SAMSUNG/PENTAX Q/LEGO CAM.
[TOYS EXIT PRAM].
tl; dr.
You should use more caps to get your point across, moving forward.
> tl; dr.
To quote, er… you, “Reading helps. Try it sometime.”
In any event, are you sure you didn’t mean tl; dr-bnmtftttr. wh?*
As to your second “point”, you are absolutely right – if sheer force of repetition will not move PAONSONIC to address our white whine… I mean, LEGITIMATE CONSUMER GRIEVANCES, then the power of CAPSLOCK must be unleashed. iN fACT, pERHAPS aLL oF tHOSE dISSATISFIED wITH tHE gX1 sHOULD vENTILATE tHEIR cONCERNS iN tOGGLE cASE fOR aDDED eMPHASIS. mOVING FORWARD tHAT iS.
* Too long; didn’t read – but nevertheless managed to find the time to reply. Weird huh?
+10
The caps made your point pretty obvious, so reading the rest wasn’t necessary.
Also, if complaining in forums is pointless, what does that say about complaining about people complaining in forums?
I THINK IT IS EXTREMELY USEFUL.
It’s not terribly useful, because the complaints are generally uninformed (in this case none of the complainers have used the product) and amount to lists of features as opposed to a coherent vision and well thought out design for a product. Panasonic and Olympus are already aware of these features. But feature lists don’t make or break a product. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere, the Leica M9 lacks what have been held up as “essential” features by the complainers.
@ bobw… that was the funniest thing i’ve read in quite a while. Thanks for that.
Best post in the thread. Even more funny were some of the replies, like the one criticizing you for using too many caps.
I guess some people can’t handle satire.
as far as body goes I have to say that NEX’s approach beats panasonic hands down. NEX-5N/3C for the ultimate compact-simplicity, NEX-7 for the ones who wants that rangefinder brick. making four lines doesn’t matter. lack of lens selection is its downside but hey, a good sensor matters just as much as a good lens (& a good sensor is MUCH cheaper than a good lens)
Well, this is all fine, and if the sensor is in fact a new one, on par with the G3 sensor, but with less pixel density, then that’s fantastic. I’m dying for better low light and DR from Panasonic’s cameras. But WHY does the grip need to be so damn ugly!? The grip is the worst looking part of the EP3, and they choose to mimic that? It looks like it is glued on as an afterthought. No one really criticized the GF1 or even GF2 grip, I don’t know why they needed to make something that is bulkier and protrudes off the side of the body.
Glad to see they’ve ditched the short height of the GF3, and to a lesser extent GF2. I don’t see the point of making a body shorter than the lens barrel. It just looks plain weird, is unbalanced, makes the lenses look huge (which is exactly the opposite of what we want), and I don’t see what it accomplishes. Keep the height greater than the lens mount diameter, and make the body thinner instead. Or put a bigger battery in 🙂
But anyway, looks good, I just pray that grip is removable.
And yes I’m the market for a rangefinder-esque mirrorless camera.
I just wish the remote port would return, so that I can shoot some timelapses! Now I have to take my obsolete cameras (GF1 and G2) to my video trips because they have remote ports.
This is how GF2 should looked like…not GX1
Maybe GX1 is a rank up over GF line to Panasonic
I realize that I am a geek for actually counting, but there are well over 100 characters of text on this camera/lens combo… not counting the legitimate labels on the dials and control buttons (because you would expect those to be labeled) and not counting the lens cap (because you can remove that at least).
This makes my E-PL2 look positively stately and tasteful by comparison.
“GX1 – the Nascar of cameras”
Any chance they will offer a version that has the features and advertising written in the manual instead of on the body?
Here is what I am talking about. As you see, I am not counting the button descriptions or printed lens focal lengths and apertures or the printed filter diameter.
Markings on the “GX1 Nascar”:
Lumix
GX1
HD
Nano Surface Coating
Lumix G
X
Vario
ASPH.
Power O.I.S.
Power Zoom
Panasonic
DMC-GX1
Full HD
Micro
AVCHD
Panasonic
Micro
L (Leica symbol)
L (Leica Symbol) = wrong
“L” is for “Lumix”
nah’ “L” is for looser 🙂
Right 😀
Consumer junk
Ugly
CW: ugly eh?—have you seen the Nex3 or the pentax or the Nikon lately?–compared to them this is miss universe!
No built in viewfinder??? Epic fail!
Rongopony: epic fail: i think not. the Sony nex3 and 5 and the all the oly cameras dont have built VF…and they all sell well
You mean it has taken them all this time playing with what they imagine the consumer wants and they still have an external viewfinder on this GF1 update – sad! How is it that Sony can get a remarkable EVF in their NEX-7 and Panasonic can’t? This is just return to the proper serious GF line with tweaked sensor and screen resolution – what a shame. I wonder why we have Sony with the bodies and Panasonic with the lens and never my perfect camera!! :0)