[shoplink 56059 ebay]
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The [shoplink 56521 ebay]Olympus Pen EED film camera[/shoplink] had a built-in viewfinder. Source: DSLRmagazine.
I got the following info from a trusted source:
PEN-f announce datę: 27.01
Sensor: 20mpix
Two kit lens: 14-42ez and 17mm 1,8
New EVF
Price of kits 1499-1799Euro
I still have to check if the announcement date is related to a single country or a synced worldwide announcement.
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309 Responses
1499, that must be one hell of a camera
That must be one hell of a grass Olympus managers are smoking.
Remember that this is for a kit that includes two lenses. The body – if available by itself – would be much less than that. But I agree that even with the two kit lenses, this price point is too high – unless that $1499 is in Canadian dollars 😎
Well,
if it has 4K video, 5-ax IBIS, (semi)-new sensor, new VF, mic-in = then I am all in
It’s not a kit with two lenses. It’s two different kits.
The posted info in this forum says “Two kit lens: 14-42ez and 17mm 1,8”.
Admittedly, the way it’s written is a little ambiguous; I interpret that as BOTH lenses are included. Which is incorrect? Do you have an independent source?
The suggestion of Pen EED underneath the photograph shown does not bode well for what we are expecting to see on release, EED is a fixed lens camera.
Was that a “tongue in cheek” comment or are you expecting a film camera? 😉
A bit of both, there are enough reflex Pens to use without looking at a fixed lens, it sometimes worries me that the information we are being given is so incredibly incorrect, not helped by the garbage being written by the anti 4/3 brigade..
Just stick to what Simon writes then. He is giving correct inside information (I don’t know if he has said anything this time yet though).
I hope that the new Pen F will come even without a kit lens.. mft is a SYSTEM! I don’t understand the reason for Kit-Lenses… for example it’s not possible to buy the Panasonic GM5 as body only. Hmm… why there are so many kit-lenses at ebay.. ??…
I guess some people collect them. But also lots of buyers get their camera with kitlens and never buy any other lens.
There will always be opportunities to buy the body only, sometimes even with warranty.
E-M1, E-M5 and E-M5 II comes with kit lens too, it is called 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO.
Do you say that it is terrible lens?
That isn’t a kit lens. It is a lens combo that is boxed with a few of the OM-D cameras. Those cameras also offer a real kit lens (14-42). When we say “kit” lens, we are referring to the cheap zooms that don’t increase the price of the body significantly.
You got it the wrong way round. Kit lens is any lens bundled with a camera. The term kit lens just has a bad reputation because it usually refers to slow, not very sharp 3x zooms. On this site, everyone should know that kit lens doesn’t always mean it’s a bad lens. Although I’m not impressed with the PEN F kit lenses either.
This might be the only m43 camera to impress in 2016 & true upgrade for DMC GX7 holders ? .
Since it’s armed with Sony 20MP sensor means it very likely to beat that bulky GX8
without doubts ? .
Looking forward to know further specs about this new PEN ? .
The GX8 only looks bulky.
In use, it’s not bulky at all. Handling is excellent. It just feels right.
Too bad Olympus didn’t release this PEN-F a couple of years ago.
They pretty much killed off interest in the PEN lineup by not doing so.
Maybe they’ll make up for lost time with this one? Who knows?
Right now, there’s so little information everything is just speculation.
Trust me , my sense usually hit the right spot .
This new PEN surely outsell the current GX8 .
I wouldn’t be so fast in the judgment. The enthusiasm around the E-P5 was very very high, yet it has largely failed in the market. The Oly fans might be loud, but it simply doesn’t reflect on their buying decisions.
That might reflect on their buying decisions, but a few dozen sales do not a viable market make (sry Yoda).
Oh yeah, you have fabulous sense…
By the way, how’s that organic sensor performing for you? ?
The Leica SL only looks bulky.
It use it’s not bulky at all, handling is excellent and it just feels right.
The GX8 is exactly the same size as the E-M1, without the protruding EVF hump. Is the E-M1 bulky to you?
Yes. And please take note that I only have one m43 camera and it’s an EM1.
I’ve been hoping for a smaller form factor m43 replacement. At this point, we know nothing about what size the PEN-F will be.
There are plenty of options already for smaller m43’s cameras than the E-M1.
The E-M1 Mk II is likely later in the year, but more than likely with this sensor. Don’t forget that Simon mentioned that the PEN-F will be the test bed for components & features etc for the E-M1 Mk II.
E-M5 line is the test bench for OM-D line. And PEN-F is as well a new test bench for OM-D as well.
You get to know what the E-M1 II gets is when you combine E-M5 II and PEN-F and then throw few new features and bonuses.
EM1 m2 & New PEN are different class & taste of photography tool .
They aimed for different customers .
Don’t mixed them together , PEN is not under OMD .
Both have their own merits to impress .
Never mind Yun. It was Simon that said 3 new features are coming to the PEN-F & is the test bed for them (those features) as they will also appear on the E-M1 Mk II. Does that make it a little clearer? Also, open your eyes & realise that the E-P5 was a ‘test bed’ for features that came to the E-M1 & later E-M5 Mk II (& other models). Just think! Remember all three models have that ‘magic’ two way switch for a start, not to mention WiFi that started with the E-P5.
The reality is that all Olympus models are mixed up with similar features one way or another. That doesn’t mean each model is not a legitimate model on its own or distinguishable from the others.
“This might be the only m43 camera to impress in 2016”
E-M1 II and GH5 are likely this year. Somehow I don’t think another m43 20 mpix FSI rangefinder-styled compact will impress anybody.
EPL-8 should also be likely this year…and hopefully EM-10 Mk III…priced accessibly.
Why? What any of them can bring? The same 20-mpix sensor?
I doubt there will be an E-PL8. Not enough sales to justify two PEN models, this new PEN may be the only one this cycle.
Why not? With the PEN F, Oly has 4 cameras that have a viewfinder. So there should be space for at least one camera in the style of the EP Mini or EP-L.
Well I am looking forward to it, and may well dump all my Fuji gear in the process.
The digital PEN F would have sell a lot if a new 1.2 lens is coupled as a kit.
E-P5 + VF4 + 17/1.8 was offered for the same price when announced and failed in sales. This one better be special.
It has a new sensor to start with! 😉
So did the E-P5 have. Remember that E-P5 had new sensor and not same from the E-M5. And E-P5 had new processor 2×2 switch etc. Why E-P5 got focus peaking, timelapse and couple other features that E-M5 didn’t have.
The difference was improved features + new sensor + no EVF + no weather sealing.
And E-P5 has been dumped out for last 2 months. Special prices like 299€ for E-P5 + 1.8/25mm that is even less than lens alone!
Pick a VF4 for it and it is 120€ extra! totaling just 420€!
Are you sure about this? I thought that em-5, ep-5, epl-5 and e-pm2 shared the same sensor.
Yes, E-P5 wasn’t the first to come out with this sensor.
As well as E-PL6, E-PL7, E-M10, E-M5 II and E-M10 II – and Pana GH3 – all have the same Sony IMX159 inside. Its like Canon with their old 18mpix.
Yes. …and in the hands of a capable photographer these cameras can create incredible images. What’s your point?
At that price; dead already
Really? So you’ve seen it & know all its specs?
No need to. Digital cameras are in general so good that price is becoming a major factor in a buying decision. Would you really pay more than the E-M5 MkII for a camera such as this? What technology would really justify that decision, and if the technology is that good, this is not the camera to put it in.
Free hand 40 Mpx modus for example…
The E-M5 II already has the 40MP mode so why spend more for it in this camera?
The fact they feel the need to resurrect the PEN name is a sure sign they are scrabbling for ideas instead of using the well-established EP(x) lines
Em511 High Res is not Hand Holdable, requires tripod
Point taken, but it would be a very limited market if that were the only reason to buy this camera over another one. I can’t see them creating ‘E-Mx in a PEN body’ especially as they have already rationalised their EPx lines and the E-M5 is such a superlative tool as it is.
I keep coming back to the idea that this has been created to play off the PEN name/reputation and that is usually a sign of a company that has limited ideas in the pipeline.
What to know? Sony 20mpix sensor, 17.3x13mm, meaning in the class below any APS-C competitor to begin with.
You seriously are idiot when you claim that way that cameras most important function is the megapixels and then sensor size bigger=better.
You are what your avatar shows.
If you don’t care about resolution and quality, why not just use your smartphone?
You do.
> 14-42ez
> Price of kits 1499-1799Euro
Assuming the 1499,0 price for 14-42 kit, then one can expect the 1300 price for body only.
That is 100 Euro more than the launch price of the GX8. Which is IMO enough to cover the IBIS. Though GX8 has some goodies of its own, so it would be still a tough sell.
GX8 has IBIS too, and also priced NOT TO SELL.
You’re 8 years old and bored aren’t you.
I am bored, that is for sure. And I was 8 many decades ago unfortunately.
unfortunately for us, your mentality still stay at 8 after many decades. 🙂
When you can’t debate… Resort to name-calling…
SAD.
It also has 4K. Something this Pen will not…
Even if it will, it is not a feature which would warrant triple price over competition. Those few who really need good 4k video in m43 use GH4 already and the pen is not going to change anything, unable to match GH4 in battery life at least (and probably in bitrates). 4k in 2016 is simply expected, the same way 1080p was expected 4-6 years ago and nobody considered it a killer feature.
Too bad Panasonic dug themselves into a hole with the stupid DFD, barely working and only with a handful of their own lenses, with framerates in AF-C falling to unacceptable levels… Although without doubt Olympus gave them a huge chance to survive by not implementing OSPDAF anywhere but E-M1 for 2.5 years already.
I really, really hope it will have PDAF…
Yes .
Such as the a6000 track focusing system would make this new PEN a real
breakthrough .
Such as the E-M1.
Em1 sensor is too old for Yun. He wants and needs only the next thing. 🙂
This seems a bit expensive, but we never know the camera might have some really cool tech inside which warrants a price mentioned above . But surprising thing is no leak shots of the real camera have been leaked .
a bit?
“but we never know the camera might have some really cool tech inside”
Absolutely no cool tech exists which can bring an m43 camera to be worth 1500 euro, when APS-C camera with 11fps with OSPDAF AF-C costs $398. Especially given that there no cool tech there, just boring FSI 20mpix Sony sensor, AT BEST equipped with Oly OSPDAF (then it is worth $350 maybe, without OSPDAF it is just a slight rehash of E-PL6 for $200, because of EVF maybe worth $250).
Your negative posts are fact-challenged and always amusing.
Everything I told in my post is a fact.
You need a carer.
I have one.
Espousing negativity.
LOL!
The Sony APS-C E-mount cameras are quite compelling given their prices and performance but two items limits these cameras.
The first is the lack of good image stabilization that stabilizes most if not all lenses such as what the Olympus cameras can do. Sony is rumored to release a new camera with IBIS. That should address this shortcoming.
The second is the lack of good lenses. Compared to the m4/3 options, Sony has only a few good prime lens and virtually has no good mid-range and long-range zooms. Even the Sony UWA 10-18 zoom is compromised as it is practically an f/5.6 zoom as it is only in this aperture that the image is acceptable. For this reason, my Sony APS-C E-mount cameras are essentially prime lens (19mm f/2.8, 24mm f/1.8, 30mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.8 and 55mm f1/.8) cameras only whereas the m4/3 cameras have a wide-array of prime and zoom lens that Sony will not be able to match anytime in the next few years.
The net result is that even if I can get very good Sony cameras at excellent prices, unless I use my Sony E-mount cameras with adapted Nikkor lenses, I will always be limited in what I can use it with. I will never have anywhere close to the lens options and image quality than the m4/3 system can deliver. And as a camera system requires both camera body and lenses, then the Sony option is not as attractive to me as the m43 system for a compact and light mirrorless camera system.
I do wish that Olympus and Panasonic will price their new camera bodies lower when these are released. But given the unavoidable price drop that takes place over time, it is perhaps understandable why these two companies will price their products as high as the market will bear before the inevitable price decline takes place.
“The Sony APS-C E-mount cameras are quite compelling given their prices and performance but two items limits these cameras.
The
first is the lack of good image stabilization that stabilizes most if
not all lenses such as what the Olympus cameras can do. Sony is rumored
to release a new camera with IBIS. That should address this
shortcoming.”
In the consumer market, Sony has 16-50 kit, 10-18/4, 55-210, 35/1.8 and 50/1.8, ALL with OSS and all more or less reasonably priced (compare, say 35/1.8 to Panasonic 25/1.4 giving the same AoV and noise performance, or 10-18/4 to 7-14/2.8). I doubt an average consumer in this market would buy or need anything else, even that 10-18 is stretching it in terms of pricing (few would consider a lens costing significantly more than a body they have just bought). Of course there would be a market for something like 20/1.8 OSS to replace their smartphones, but then again, there are smartphones doing just that, with quality which satisfy 99.99% of customers at that AoV. Hard to compete with something customers already bought anyway.
Maybe there would be a market for a E 50-150/2.8 if reasonably priced and guaranteeing AF-C performance in low light gyms, but then again, Sony probably decided they cannot make it below $1000 and above $1000 there simply going be too few sales to pay its fixed costs. So “Rebels” (including all consumer APS-C cameras from Canon, Nikon, Pentax and to a degree Sony) with 70-200/2.8 Tamrons, 50-135/2.8 Tokinas etc will continue to get all the market all for themselves.
Of course Oly has much more complete offerings with their “PRO” line, they are just priced way above consumer market and provide performance (specifically, noise levels in low light) way below to what real pro market is accustomed to, even below to what modern “Rebels” provide with their cheaper f/1.8 primes (like 50/1.8 for $100) and f/2.8 zooms.
You seem to be seriously quite knowledgeable in sony e mount camera system. I think your contribution to sony related blogs and forums will be of immense help .I feel you are wasting your time and effort here on m43 blog. Let the small sensor lovers enjoy the discussion here .
In Other Words: Nobody here gives a rat’s patootie.
Can’t wait to hear the A6100 *BURP* after it eats this puppy for breakfast..
You are right, the A6100 should eat this – how else would Sony get some decent lenses? 😉
For this Price i would change from Olympus to Fuji
You are right .
But please wait further to see what is this new PEN is all about before decide
which one to go . Maybe it will delight you again .
WOW! That was almost positive. 🙂
hahahahhaha amazing, YUN is human after all.
Looking at prices lately Oly has its nose a bit to much up in the air. If the E-M1 II will cost accordingly, say 2000$, with the Sony 20MP sensor, Oly will have made a fatal decision. Oly’s m43 is great, but Oly should not overdo it. We see Nikons latest cams and there seems to come advantages by a large margin IQ wise, no reason to become nosy Olympus!
No, I think it is just the speculators, whingers & whiners here that have their nose in the air & if they’re not careful they will trip if they don’t look down at reality occasionally. 😉
“Costs 1499 Euro with kit lens.”
Epic fail, again.
A quick search on amazon.de shows that the EM-1 still sells at about 1000 Euro. Obviously, it was higher than that at launch. Not too far off from that 1500 Euro mark.
…was it an epic fail…?
Depends on what they mean by “kit lens”.
14-42EZ or 17/1.8, whatever, neither is worth more than $150.
$400 at BH for the 17mm. Same ballpark on amazon.de
Whether or not you value it that low does not change it’s current worth.
Asking price has nothing to do with value.
What you want has nothing to do with value. What most people are willing to pay does. You’re outvoted.
Most people do not buy it. Most (like 99.9999%) people have not purchased 17/1.8 lens. Here it is.
0.0001% of the world population did buy it?
I rest my case
If you think otherwise, it is time to take a remedial course in economics, or in basic logic.
And you should start to stop confusing basic economics jargon.
Peevee. Are you on drugs? Perhaps you are but your dosage needs adjusting.
Disagree. I think the 17 is worth more, but the kit zoom is definitely only $100 or less.
True. Not to mention that 1000 Euro is for body only.
That new pen is not out yet. We just don’t know yet how compelling it will be. A bit early to call it DOB…
In 2013, E-M1 was the best mirrorless camera available. It is 2016 out there.
Whatever it is priced anywhere, does not mean it sells in any meaningful qualities. Look at the amazon ratings, it is NOWHERE, while various kits of a6000 are in the top 20.
Where as the new pen, we don’t know yet.
To say and I quote you, that it will be an other epic fail, is to pretend to know better than any of us.
Peevee has a pretty good handle on this because he reads blogs. I’d trust his word.
HAHA!!
WHAT do you expect from the PEN F? Even if it had an awesome sensor with global shutter and filterless photon counters, it would not match low light performance of FF cameras available today for less than $1000. BUT IT WILL NOT HAVE IT. It will have the boring Sony IMX269 which is already behind even cheap APS-C competition from 4 years ago in resolution and low light performance. So there. It just puts the hard upper limit on the price at which it can achieve mass sales (beyond diehard fans which are very limited in numbers), and that limit is somewhere in the $350-$400 for the body, $500 for the kit with 14-42EZ (at $550 most customers, at least here in the US, will choose a6000 with stronger brand and bigger, better sensor, or continue to choose Rebels etc). As Olympus prices it at triple that, they are clearly not willing to reach mass market and instead try and fleece the few fans they can, as they did with E-P5 and E-M5II.
Good luck to them, but every person who did not sleep through their economics 101 course knows, they have no chance with strategy like this. The story of Four Thirds all over again. 🙁 As a person invested into m43, I am VERY disappointed.
For what it’s worth, the A7 (the only FF sensor available for less than $1000) has between 1.25-1.5EV better noise performance than the 16MP or 20MP M4/3 sensor when downsampled to the same resolution.
And given that the Sony f4 zooms cost the same as the M4/3 f2.8 zooms, don’t expect miracles.
That number is courtesy of DXOMark, so if you disagree, you can take it up with them.
The 2EV theoretical equivalence figure (really should be 1.94EV, but that’s nitpicky) gets quoted a lot, but the real world Sony sensors at the sub-$3000 price point tend to be underperformers.
And don’t expect miracles from the A7’s autofocus either. Its pokey as all get out.
Be disappointed all you like. It’s not an argument. If you think it spells doom and gloom for m43, please open up a new church and move on.
Your ad hominem attacks referring to other’s grasp of basic economics and logic does nothing good either. I personally find your understanding of economics questionnable. Namely, you overestimate the value that the average new customer places on sensor size and low light performance. Get this : real life is not always about forum dwellers.
Besides, both Olympus and Panasonic already had success with cameras launched well at above $1000, namely the GH4 and the EM-1.
“Your ad hominem attacks referring to other’s grasp of basic economics and logic does nothing good either.”
If you don’t believe in economics, how about history? Does Four Thirds ring a bell? Another overpriced system with underperforming sensor, how is it going now? Same exact sht.
“Namely, you overestimate the value that the average new customer places on sensor size and low light performance.”
Do not underestimate, those who buy ILC cameras today understand these things. Those who do not, still use P&S or (99%) their phones.
But price is more important, and brand is more important. Canon, Nikon, Sony all have stronger brands (at least in the US, but I bet everywhere), and even the people who know nothing about sensor sizes would not pay more for an Olympus (and coincidentally, the brand value corresponds with performance, with maybe Canon cameras somewhat overvalued today – but lenses still rule). Maybe Oly managers live on some other planet where it is not the case.
“Even if it had an awesome sensor with global shutter and filterless photon counters, it would not match low light performance of FF cameras available today for less than $1000. ”
You are sadly and boringly obsessed with the extremes of image quality which the vast majority of photographs and photographers don’t even need. Cameras are more than their sensors. Get that through your thick skull.
NO
At that price it better be spec’d like an OM-D which really makes no sense because all they would be doing is spreading resources to compete against themselves. Personally I would prefer to see the f1.2s sooner than later
An optical engineer designing lenses is not the same person as an electromechanical engineer designing cameras. I don’t expect the same team is used for both sets of products, so there’s little resource transferability involved.
Wow…you are such an expert. Maybe Olympus has some multitaskers on staff.
What do you think? Do you think that’s the case? That reallocating people from one team will substantially speed up another?
There’s a saying in project management that even if you want them to, 9 women can’t make a baby in 1 month…
With this form factor, Oly is also competing against the Fuji x-xpro2, the Pana GX8, a possible Sony A7000
better to cannibalise yourself then let the competitors do it.
I spoke to one Olympus manager in November and he told me it will have corner EVF and it will be very expensive. But also that it will have better features than current E-M1. He couldnt tell me anything else.
I guess it will have the handheld 40mpx mode.
Thanks for the post…if your facts are correct than the price makes sense. Looks like Olympus decided to make more of a supercharged EP5 successor to challenge the GX series at the expense of the cute/small PEN. It may be a good strategy to deliver a very capable camera as the idea of some of the smaller PENs has just been replaced in people’s minds by cell phone cameras.
With this price they are actually creating a new niche. Super high-end rangefinder style camera. The GX8 is already at 1000€ new in Germany.
“The GX8 is already at 800€ new.”
What country? In Germany it is still 999€
The market for this type of camera will go for it because of the specs or…. for a cool factor, as a fashion statement?
HIGH price, so there must be something really new. Otherwise it seems very expensive. Sensor shift technology without a tripod needed would be such a new feature, but I rather expect this for the EM1 MK II. Just imagine with the 20 mpx sensor you would have 80 Mpx at RAW !!
You might expect it on the E-M1 Mk II but why shouldn’t they test it on the PEN-F first? Remember, there are 3 features being added to this model, being tried & tested on it before being implemented on the top model E-M1 Mk II. That was what happened with the lower tier E-M5. It was not the top Pro model (E-M1) & we were reminded of that at the time from Olympus too.
I am hoping it will drop in price quickly 🙂 – then there should be a chance this camera is for me..
Don’t forget the EP5 with 17mm 1.8 and viewfinder launched around £1350.00. I expect body only will be around £999.
And they sold barely any
I think the 17mm is an excellent choice for the tote camera. The 20mm serves the role very nicely too, and using either one on the OM-D for the day, actually begs the question of how convenient is convenient-enough. The E-M10 is a tiny camera if small is the priority.
Sold my m43 gear. Bought a Fuji X-T10 and a couple of fast primes for what this Pen + kit lens will cost. IBIS is missed, but overall IQ is better; plus I prefer labeled control dials.
Glad your happy now and took the extra effort of coming here and telling us. Hope it works for your pictures too!
Meh i hate labeled control dials. I like to choose which dial does what, not have the manufacturer decide.
I get that in theory. But in the end, I just forget which dial does what and which way to turn to open or close aperture or whatever. Plus Fuji has done a good job of labeled dials and switches for the controls I regularly use anyway — aperture, ISO, shutter, focus mode, exposure comp. I also like being able to look at the camera in-hand and figure out what it’s up to before turning it on.
I have a dedicated exposure comp dial on my GX8 and I hate it. When in A or S mode, I’d rather exposure comp be done by one of the other dials, but since it has a dedicated exposure comp dial, I have to use that one.
I do have some fond feelings for the Fuji mirrorless, but only because the 16-megapixel APS-C sensor has large pixels and a small advantage on ISO. I opted to stay with μ43, upgraded the camera and chose three of the f1.8 primes instead because I wanted a lighter camera and smaller lenses in the bag, six at the moment. To each his own. I am not sure, but I think Toshiba fabricates the sensor, and it is an excellent sensor. My opinion on why others shy from it is the difficulty and delay in getting RAW software converters for the funky demosaic requirements. Maybe changed by now.
A grand too much…
Maybe your mother thought you were too expensive too. 😀
definitely too expansive!! Body only should be max. 1000€ to be able to compete… if it’s like 1299 forget it. I’d pay 100-200€ more and get a full frame A7ii or Nikon D750… sorry but Olympus really does not play in the same league as the d750… Although, I really love all my Oly’s for various reasons!! But when push comes to shove I’d pick the nikon… sorry.
Also right now you can get the gx8, for around 800€ so all the more reason to adjust the price!!!
Your assumption is that a PEN buyer will only consider a rectangular shape. I think you are correct, though it is a mystery to me why the rectangular shape is SO important as to exclude the OM-D cameras for $800.
Can we expect the 4.4 million pixels EVF? I hope so!
You can expect that resolution in a couple of years from now. You will be very lucky to get 4,4M dots, this year (1,47 MP).
He used word “Pixels” and not “resolution”. The EVF panel has X * RGB * Y pixels so it is X * Y * 3 and it makes that 4.4 million pixels.
Same thing is with the digital cameras. We don’t have 16Mpix as resolution, it is more like a 5.5Mpix * RGB and that totals to 16Mpix.
Yeah, I mean that. The same EVF as the Leica S. Why not!
Leica SL, sorry
I agree…if the Leica was able to get the new 4.4, then no reason Oly couldn’t be first to use it in a high end m43…I look forward to this camera…and no need to get over excited about rumoured msrp before you even see the product…
Dots are sub-pixels so anyway you look at is is incorrect.
So are the pixels on sensor, your point?
This has been discussed meany times, some manufactures tray to mislead agar to believe people with big numbers and this is all.
A camera pixel is totally different because even if it has a single color, it gets the full color information from the adjacent pixels after democratizing. A screen dot will only emit that particular color whatever you tray to debate. In this case you need at least 3 colored dots (sub-pixels) to make a full color pixel. There are multiple manufactures who use more than 3 colored dots to make a pixel, like LG who ads a white dot to make a better image. In this case a single pixel is formed from 4 dots.
Oly, if your RF styled Pen-F shares all MD-1 features + a few new nice ones, has higher res EVF, around GX-7 size, at least -3EV AF sensitivity with AF point covered the frame, controls for on-fly shooting, with big and perfectly placed near thumb back AF-On button, C1/C3 Custom Modes with fast access, direct access for AF points changing, all buttons fully programable with any feature, a few Fn buttons, front and back dial + exposure compensation dial, sensor with clean 3200iso + 6-7 DR, and tilt LCD, you have my money. Make soon also classic fl with f/1.4 primes (FF equivalents: 24/35/50/85) and I will never look back on Fuji or Sony APS-C.
> sensor with clean 3200iso + 6-7 DR
any chance that could happen ?
He must mean 6-7 EV DR at ISO 3200, not 6-7 more. Seems feasible -ish.
Depends on your definition of clean, really…
Dxomark measured more than 9 EV for the GX8/em5ii at 3200 iso.
For RAW ?
If 9EV for 3200iso Raw that would be amazing.
What makes you think the Pen-F will be “RF styled”? The original Pen F was a SLR.
I think “rangefinder” these days means, strictly, a more or less rectangular shape. I also do not think many people understand the word “reflexive.” The reflexive use of the single lens buy use of a mirror OR a live-view sensor effectively eliminates parallax errors that were common to twin-lens rangefinder cameras of the era. I think we should update our terms. DSLO and DSLE for optical and electronic. Maybe we should drop the D and use F-SLR on the rare days we wish to discuss film era concepts. D is not an archetype anymore. Photography has gone digital and it has long since become redundant to be specific about it. As to your question, I think everybody assumes the PEN-F will be rectangular or not very far from it because we are living, basically in a two-shape paradigm. (Some folks need to be reminded to say para dime…)
at this price ill expect (some degree) of weather sealing. like the em5 II
if they weather seal it, this will be an instabuy for me, even at this price.
OMG! So expensive! Everybody freak out!
Oh..don’t worry…THEY ARE!
I am 🙁
That is definitely pricey. Seems like a mistake to me, but who knows. That said, M4/3 is extremely solid in midrange products (E-M10 II and G7 are competitive in class), and the camera market as a whole is shifting towards high margin items.
Maybe there will be some very impressive features to justify it. Build quality isn’t high on the priority list, Sony seems to have done a good job building high IQ but extremely basic bodies, particularly the A6000.
Not at all. Sony APS-C Systemquality is nearly alltimes weak. You will get sharper images from mFT unless you don’t stop down a Sony to F8 or more.
I agree that APS-C E-mount lenses are extremely weak, and really don’t match the potential of the A6000. The 16-50mm kit lens is really almost garbage, you get strictly better output from a 14-42mm mounted on 16MP M4/3 sensor unless you stop down to f/8, as you say. But the 18-105/f4 isn’t terrible and is reasonably well priced. As is the 10-18/f4, and the 35/1.8 and 50/1.8 are also decent. But none of those lenses are better than the M4/3 equivalents, so it’s kind of a tough sell.
I think the trump card for the A6000 is it’s autofocus as burst speeds, really, and they have been heavily marketed. The sensor quality itself doesn’t offer much noise benefit over the 16MP sensors, maybe 1/2 stop when downscaled to the same resolution. I haven’t seen a lot of evidence of superior DR, but I’m sure it’s there at base ISO.
“APS-C E-mount lenses are extremely weak”
and will be even weaker if the A6100 really brings the 36MPx sensor => not enough resolving capability + diffraction from F6.1 is guaranteed.
Yeah, honestly I don’t understand why they’re doing that. I guess just to get crazy press attention, which makes sense. Or maybe they’re trying to amortize the cost of the sensor tech for a 83MP FF A9 pro studio camera?
Seems very expensive – likely the most expensive Olympus MFT camera ever.
I think I heard they use the 12-40 2.8 as a kit lens.
Still not cheap, but maybe they really did put everything that’s in the OM-D’s into the F. Maybe even a bit more.
would be a strange idea for a quite small body (i assume a body close to the ep5).
I only heard it in my head, maybe.
Hopefully not bigger than that.
“I think I heard they use the 12-40 2.8 as a kit lens.”
Unfortunately, no. $1500 for a kit with 14-42EZ, $1800 for the kit with 17/1.8. No sales expected at these prices, so no sane store purchasing manager will order it, so it will not be on any shelves.
PS. Well, maybe in Japan. They love cute little things there, irrespective of value.
Assuming this rumor is true:
I had my wallet open.. ready to give them my money. At this price, my money will go to Fuji.
In the age of super-bargains in the 400-500 Euro range, the 1300 Euro camera would inherently have very little appeal.
One can get a lot of other m43 gear for the money – or Fuji’s – which would contribute much more, than another camera body ever could.
Depends on the features.
“Simon” said it will have three new features not seen before that will be “tested” in the Pen F before introduction in the E-M1 II
Fuji doesn’ even have such a camera!
Compare Fuji X-T1 to E-M1
and Fuji X-T10 to E-M10II
and make your choice
You forgot the XE2. OR the XE2s coming this month.
The xpro2 will hit approximately at the same time as the Pen F, so they will be compared.
You were ready to give them your money before you knew ANYTHING about the camera? Seriously, all we know is the name, and some rumors about it having a 20mp sensor and EVF.
Seems pricey but it depends on actual specs and features. Im hoping for upper OMD-level type of camera.
If you want a cheap Pen, there are plenty of EPL5-6-7 to choose from. Even the Panasonic GM1-5 are good alternatives.
Logically, a cheaper Pen F could still be coming, an EPL8 or something. A cheap plasticky toy like the A6000 to make Peevee happy.
Add some metal to a PEN, and it somehow not a toy anymore? It is just a toy with more metal.
And metal does not cost much. Take a beer can, it has about as much metal as a compact or prime lens with metal shell (like 20/1.7ii or 17/1.8). Costs nothing.
I’d rather buy a full frame Sony A7II with little bit more money than this one. Too expensive for me considering a m43 camera.
43rumors is overflowing with the FF shooters these days. What these people are even doing here? The site name is “43rumors”, not “FFrumors”.
Or is it the reading comprehension problem?
And worries, fear, feeling the need to convince the world that they actually still matter, explaining others that their choice is still the right choice, yes, everything is bigger and heavier, but for god’s sake, it’s still worth it, isn’t it? I made the right choice, didn’t I? Don’t you get it? Don’t you see why my pictures look so much better? Didn’t you notice? Etc.
43rumors is overflowing with people always ready to defense themselves whenever any opinion appears against m43 cameras. That is the kind of the expression that they are highly unconfident about themselves. Myself is a m43 shooter too, just saying that I feel the price is high for this camera. That’s it.
I think the suggested price for the Pen here seems too high.
But even though I know the body sony a7ll is very compact, the lenses are not. Pricing on a7ll with kit lens is 1850 euros (in Denmark), so still a little higher..
“Myself is a m43 shooter too, just saying that I feel the price is high for this camera. That’s it.”
Which Oly E-Px camera ever had sane launch price?
Remember how little of a camera E-P1 was? – 800 Euro for kit at launch. E-P2 – 1100 Euro (because initially they have bundled the external VF). E-P3 – 900 Euro. E-P5 – 1000 Euro.
There is no history of Olympus pricing the E-Px cameras sanely, ever. So why complain? (To me it is “complain again?” because I still remember how forums have exploded when E-P3 and E-P5 prices were announced.)
You are correct. There is always a disappointed wish at price announcements. High prices appear as cold water in a market segment that doesn’t have a lot of fire left in it. I side with opinion that E-P5 was a flop.
But you don’t have the full specs yet & that will be the deciding factor on its value. Also, new camera models always look expensive against the street price of older models.
Don’t worry, the whingers & whiners will slink away or eat humble pie & join those cueing for the camera when it is released. The more patient & discerning will sit back a wait awhile as the price drops & the model proven itself plus FW updates will have improved on certain little things.
I disagree with psychological analysis. Individuals who can sort-through trade-offs and choose for themselves have the entire market open to them. I don’t have a problem with a prickly response to individuals whose only purpose here is to be dismissive. I do agree, the price seems high for the niche.
What is your problem with mentioning other products which compete for the same money? You are like Olympus managers who don’t know that anybody else in the world exist and so they can set any price they want and expect their product to sell.
Well, a competitive market does not work like that.
Is Olympus nuts? The GX8 with 14-42 was 1299.
So the Oly 14-42 costs around 250€ at the moment, the Pana 14-42 costs around 200€. And Oly wants 1500€ for the Pen F kit? If we assume with the kit we get the lens for 100€ less, we are still at 1350€ for the PEN F body only. This is insane. Looks like Olympus doesn’t want my money. I hope this price is wrong!
…..but….um…you have not even seen the camera?
I didn’t say it won’t have cool features, I’m saying I won’t pay that much for it. The GX8 also has cool new features, but none that scream “buy me”, at least not for 1200€. And Oly would need to release a hell of a camera that I make the jump at 1300€.
Or the kit lens….
Perhaps price is PEN-F + 14-42mm F 1.2… 🙂
Serious: It must be something like a weather sealed GX8. And a camera positioned at that level will not have an ordnary 14-42mm….
The GX8 is weather-sealed, too. 😉
It will have 14-42/3.5-5.6EZ.
I think ALL of the μ43 kit zooms are boring because of aperture limitations. We need an f2.5–4 that is smaller than the const f2.8 PRO lenses. Collapsible tubes would be okay.
What if it is gold-plated and designed by Swarovski? And has integrated iPhone 7?
1299€ for the body is not bad at all. NOT AT ALL!
Olympus does its market research, there is enough buyers to get the new PEN F for that price, just as there were for E-P5!
It is just the normal whining that poor people causes by believing that everyone else are as poor as they are!
1299€ for many is just 3-4 month extra cash they would otherwise spend to something else non-useful.
1299€ is for professional a one month gain they can spend to gear.
Do you really believe the EP5 was a success? If so, why is Oly straying from a “successful” recipe then? And it’s not about having the money, it’s about what I’m prepared to pay for an upgrade over my GX7. If I’m not the target market for the PEN F, then so be it.
Straying from? It isn’t straying away from anything!
It is exactly enforcing the PEN line with PEN F!
Olympus is not rejecting all other models and placing all behind PEN F! For science name get a grip of the reality!
E-P5 was success, only few really found it problematic and that even mainly by the price that they couldn’t afford! Yet it got excellent reviewes and it is excellent by features and capabilities, yet being small.
How can you say the EP5 was a success? Do you have the sales numbers? It wasn’t a flop, and it was well received critically, but many people on this site wanted a camera exactly like it, except with a built-in EVF. And other than that it had almost nothing over the e-M5. And the question remains, if it was such a success, then why is Oly putting a corner EVF in the new PEN F? By your logic they don’t have to do that, since the EP5 was such a resounding success without it.
I have info from multiple countries different store chains warehouse data. E-P5 was sold often fairly quickly from all the batches that were ordered and then backorders were for a while until they were gone again. Now they are gone as E-P5 isn’t anymore ordered.
And you don’t have any logic that the missing EVF was a problem.
The PEN F has a viewfinder, they are now replicating PEN F in digital form! IT NEEDS TO HAVE EVF!
E-PL line has been success, Olympus own documents shows that as well.
Young people don’t use viewfinder so much, the rear display is more than enough for many!
Well if you say so. I can’t dispute your data, but you can’t show it to me either …
Still, based on the reception the EP5 got in this forum, it was not what people here wanted. So from that perspective, it wasn’t a success.
Dont forget that people here dont represent a majority of the market / real buyers.
Indeed. Talk is cheap.
Did you ever use one? I already have the VF4, and just loved the camera, the way it handled and it was a looker in my book as well. I sold mine when I had some random problems with shutter shock. There was no solution at the time and decided to sell mine. ..it was a shame, because I REALLY loved the way that camera handled! Well designed in my book with a great VF as an option.
where’s the Link to this sales data, when the consensus is, the camera was a Failure? http://www.dpreview.com/articles/2330974890/olympus-stems-loses-but-pen-sales-disappoint
The Pen series was a big loss for Olympus and has been since the OMD EM5. Different sources? Yeah, sure…
Even when Olympus ID turned a profit (operating profit), http://www.dpreview.com/articles/0832983171/om-d-and-pen-sales-help-bring-olympus-imaging-division-back-to-profitability
-it was again because of the OMD. Pens may have sold, but at HUGE discounts. Face it, the EP5 was a Flop.
And also note, Olympus plans to charge a Premium to help sales. Sell less point and shoots and Charge for enthusiast cameras like the Pen and OMD lines. So don’t be surprised at the price of the new Pen.
Sell less premium cameras at a higher price, to show a profit… Kinda lame if you ask me… Howabout selling a decent camera, at a decent price, market it and sell a crap of them?
I think you are correct. E-P5 was a bunt, first base. E-M5 was a home run.
I had one. The first week, the flash popped up by itself in my bag and damaged itself. I wanted to love that camera, but it was a bit clunky (weirdly heavy) and the flash button was overly sensitive. My favorite PEN was and is the E-PL7. I’m definitely in the market for a high end PEN w/o VF. Something with E-M5 II features but smaller. I don’t know what’s the point of a rangefinder styled E-M5 II. The E-M5 II is only slightly bigger than GX7 and has much, much better battery life.
“poor people”? Ok we are sorry that we don’t have 1299€ extra cash growing on our money trees.
“Olympus does its market research,”
It does not. Otherwise it would not have their pathetic market share.
You can pick up an E-P5 for 300 new or slightly above on ebay. That’s free. For an extra 2MP’s the camera has got to wow some other way. I await the announcement.
Oly 14-42EZ is $150 in every kit in the States.
Gosh
I so wanted a new Pen but I m not going to pay that much for it, no way.
🙁
Stop worrying about price, the market will fix any Olympus pricing errors, it always does.
By providing no sales, and refusing Olympus any money for further R&D. If not killing their photo division completely. A real cause to worry for people invested in their system.
And Olympus managers are too dumb and proud to discount their cameras quickly enough to have some sales. They WILL discount the cameras by 50% (like they were supposed to be to begin with), but 3+ years later, when 150 new cameras have been released and nobody is interested in the historic relic of a camera anymore.
Is the sensor in portrait orientation?
Why would it be?
To differentiate the product in a stagnant market? To prove they aren’t another modular Sony camera lackey? To provide life to studio and magazine shooters and Fuji 645 users?
Basically, things you aren’t interested in.
Things not many buyers are interested in.
Pretty much.
If they wanted to ensure that it would stay on the shelf even longer than the E-P5, I guess that’s what they’d do.
Not to fond of products being different just to be different, landscape is the better orientation.
Not if you shoot portraits, or for magazines, or newspapers.
I guess, but I think the professional magazine and newspaper studio-shooter that use mFT for that kind of work are very few, probably would be a very small niche.
Because the original Olympus Pen F was portrait orientation? (It was a half-frame 35mm camera.)
The original PEN F was also a film camera with an optical viewfinder. You want the new Pen F to have that, too?
Portrait/Landscape orientation is irrelevant in the digital age. It only makes sense with the original PenF because it was HALF FRAME. In digital this is for lack of a better expression: :FULL FRAME.
dumb question: why this pen costs that much? Is it worth it?
That may not really be a dumb question, just not that easy to answer right now.
It is easy, same way it is easy to answer why E-M5II is overpriced and fail, and E-P5 is overpriced and fail, etc.
Nobody knows if this price is even correct, let alone what justifies that price if it is true. At least, nobody who is allowed to speak about it. The specs haven’t been released yet, all we have are rumors and “leaks.”
Dumb answer:- This PEN-F hasn’t been announced or released yet!
Because Olympus managers who set the prices are dumb. That is why Olympus does not dominate photo market, it is not Canon. Or Nikon. Or Sony.
If you are going to do a two lens kit with at 17mm 1.8, why do the 14-42 EZ. Do something more exciting like a 45mm 1.8. My kit 14-42 hasn’t been used in years as 14 isn’t wide enough…Too bad it can’t be bundled with the 12-32.
The rumor is not about a 2 lens kit but 2 different kit bundles.. one with a 14-42EZ and another with the 17. It would be nice if Olympus had pushed the pancake zoom to 12.
There should be few kits.
PEN F + 17mm f/1.8
PEN F + 17mm f/1.8 + 45mm f/1.8
PEN F + 25mm f/1.8
PEN F + 25mm f/1.8 + 45mm f/1.9
PEN F + 17mm f/1.8 + 25mm f/1.8 + 45mm f/1.8
And then:
PEN F + 17mm f/1.2
All those three existing f/1.8 lenses are excellent kit lenses for PEN F. There shouldn’t be reason why buyer should be required to buy those bundled by the store instead made kit ones by Olympus. And it would boost the sales when you can get 17mm/25mm/45mm cheaper with the new PEN F (like say 20-30% cheaper than if bundled).
Each additional SKU (which includes kits) involves additional fixed costs, which Olympus with their tiny sales should avoid to incur.
There should be only one model, body only in one color, with retailers offering matching lenses and colored half-cases to make a kit and cater to different tastes – for cost reasons.
rather a new “kit” lens the zuiko 40mm f1.4 with af bundled with the PEN for 1499 🙂
I believe you misread the post. The Lee are two kit lens options, not a two lens kit. The 14-42ez kit is £1499 and the 17/1.8 kit is £1799. I would expect the body only to be £1299.
What would make it worth that much? A few possible answers: improved hi-res mode (maybe even handheld); improved in-camera focus stacking; improved Live Composite (with selectable blending modes); 4K video. But, it’s sort of foolish to say it isn’t worth the price until we know what that price will buy. At the very least, it’s going to have a very, very good EVF and 20mp.
Weather-sealing. Tank construction. High end EVF. Deep buffer…
Essentially everything missing from low end models like the xt10 or the A6000.
Tank construction, with panache and capability thrown in. Makes most cameras feel like toys in comparison.
UK body only prices:
XT1 £605 body
EM5 mkll £585
GX8 600
EM1 550
A7 ll 995
Is the pen really going to be worth so.much more? Only for the must have the latest camera gear fan boys!
Yes it will.
1/ It will be beautiful camera. Very well made
2/ It will have really outstanding EVF. This EVF will be the beginning of the end of optical viewfinders
3/ It will have new features that no other camera maker offers right now
4/ It will have configuration that takes nearly everyone by surprise.
I have heard point 2 for a few cameras now. I don’t think it’ll be better than the one in the Leica SL
Those are discounted prices the E-M1 WAS £1250 when it came out it is currently £780 with a £100 winter discount. Assuming you are buying from the UK and not one of the hong kong grey importers
Looking forward to the announcement and more leaks. Weather sealed pro pen will be pretty cool. Need it to justify buying weather sealed pro primes.
WTF, 1500€? That’s utterly insane!
Not if you hit the powerball.
Don’t expect that… a GX8 alike camera with 20Mpx sensor and cool PEN retro design. In terms of video, I think Olympus’ will be disappointing compared to Pana.
Hope I’m wrong…
If you hit powerball, would you buy:
1) PEN-F with 17/1.8 for $1800 (or euro).
2) Leica Q, $4000
3) RX1Rii, $3200?
Yikes, that’s a tough one. Probably RX1RII. If you got the money to spend…
Please integrate a grip this time. I want an OE available grip. I know it’s a PEN- I get it. Friction grips are ok, but I want the option of an L grip.
Does PEN F have a grip? Where it is?
http://www.klassik-cameras.de/PenFT_00_m.jpg
Sorry, I don’t see it!
Does the Pen F have an image sensor and an EVF? Sorry I don’t see it!
If it is Olympus answer to GX8, then it will be welcome.
In six months to a year the price will go down a little and I may consider replacing my E M-5
(I read the GX8 is good, but would like to remain within the Olympus brand).
no, 1499 Euro is nuts. I have a Sony a6000 which I love, but I also loved my EP5 and not at all put off by image quality of the 4/3 sensor. I was hoping this would tick all the boxes but price just is out of my league. To me, a $999 kit price would be right with just the 14-42ez. Oh well, I’ll see what the a7000 looks like I suppose.
To be fair the EP5 was also overpriced when it came out which all but killed its sales it has been discounted ever since.
Yes, or at least, I don’t have the notion that the e-p5 was that much cheaper. And the price didn’t exactly drop much, especially not in the first year. And the E-P5 isn’t really a lesser camera than the average OM-D is. And this Pen F could be a more valuable camera than the E-P5 was. So there’s nothing shocking going on here.
200th!
Didn’t Olympus decide in 2013 to develop the PEN line to cater to Females? Y’all are in the minority. This camera isn’t aimed for y’all. -Not to say that you still can’t buy it.
http://photon.101medialablimit.netdna-cdn.com/hypebeast.com/image/2014/08/olympus-pen-e-pl7-1.jpg?w=1755
http://www.clothesshow.com/Press_1/8591934_assocImage_3.jpg?rndUUID=A8E4AF3B-0E5A-8E59-E1837581A53C1861
http://asia.olympus-imaging.com/content/000028491.jpg
Since the EPL1 actually.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZllIu-wCOnA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QD3ZOFZLTI
One of the reasons it makes a great street shooter. When I ask for permission to publish while showing the pic on my white E-P5 [a calculated color choice], things generally go smoothly.
We need a photograph of the new mighty PEN!!!!!!! C’mon…give her up!!!
just two more weeks!
……..but this is a “rumor” site….we NEED photos of the camera BEFORE the release. :-@
Don’t put a damper on all those fantasies.
Reality is a biatch. ?
digicame-info.com will probably have on first 😉
2016 is like Xmas time for Olympus. Next gen Pen F, EM1 mark II, f1.2 primes.
Are they nuts ?
Price is speculation but it is very overpriced at 1500 ! It does however show the evolution through the body range leading up to the new EM2n (I wish they didn’t copy Canon with MK11) so while this ‘toy’ doesn’t interest me, I look forward to the new EM and I can see that at a 2k pricepoint for starters. As someone else said, the markey will define price …. it the Pen F does not sell, Olympus will drop prices 🙂 …..
“toy”?..it will deliver the same quality photos as the new EM1 Mark II as it will have the same sensor, no doubt.
Is it Gold plated? Platinum? Palladium?
Otherwise, the price makes no sense.
Sooo… is this going to be Olympus’ new flagship? I mean, that price would make it their most expensive camera. Doesn’t make sense.
Sounds like the Pen F is basically an EM1 Mk2 (with off centre EVF). If it contains all the expected EM1 MK2 features – PDAF, WR, 4K video and possibly the Handheld 1/60 High Res. If so the price would be justified, if not it will be overpriced.
Pen’s shouldnt have L Grips – it’s supposed to be rangefinder style not SLR style even though the pen F was essentially an SLR, it looked like a rangefinder.
Logically, a higher-price point PEN would necessarily have to include some exciting tech to fetch the price. While I would agree that EVF is a must, I am not sure that declining PEN sales can be attributed to lack of EVF, but more to the success of the OM-D. Across the board PDAF would be very nice.
Olympus is targeting Leica sales figures with prices like these.. $2260 Canadian. I’m in disbelief.
Seriously doubt this. I’d expect this to come in about 1/2-2/3 that price.
Dont mean to offend but you can’t say “few more info”. Either “few more details” or “a bit more info”.
jawol!
Try to insert “h”.
meine rumors ar az gud az mein schpellinge
pics or it never happened
Censoring much?
Actually no, not at all.
But I am lightly moderating.
“OMG! It’s so expensive! Are they nuts? Very overpriced!”
translation:
“I want one, but I can’t afford it.”
🙂 yep …
Real translation: I own the system and worry that it will follow Four Thirds fate due to the same practices of overpricing products over better performing competition.
I want one but would I ever pay this much for it? Heck no. I used to have a lot of micro four thirds gear but for a single body? BLEEP no
I waited for this Cam to have a successor for my still fantastic e-p3. However, I’ll have to wait another 2 years until it becomes affordable. Would pay 1500 if they put a 25mm 1.2 as a kit lens.
Sounds lovely, but good luck! If there’s a 25/1.2, it’d probably be $1500 by itself!
I can’t imagine paying $1500 for a m43s body, seems nuts to me. All the same, I hope the camera does well, it sounds promising.
The E-M1 launched at $1400 so nothing is impossible