One of the great things from Olympus is that they really work on details. The new E-M1 will use an “improved” viewfinder that ahs the same specs of the VF-4. The sources didn’t tell me what exactly has been improved but it sounds good anyway 🙂
Reminder: Same thing happens for the sensor. Based on the E-m5, but without AA filter and PDAF on it.
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120 Responses
will be nice to have a better finder 🙂
really hoping the focus is going to track better and work in dark better ?
but either way its moving forward slowly so will pick one up
Slightly improved electronic connection. Unfortunately requiring those who already own a VF-4 to purchase the new version for their E-M1. Officially named the “Lens Hood Generosity Program.” Comes under the same umbrella as the “Charge An Extra Few Hundred For The Same Lens But Different Color Program.” Another gift from Oly to their legion of deliriously fanatical fanboys.
???
why would they need to buy a new evf for the em-1? it is built-in..
Just a sarcastic, bitter, and now embarrassed troll.
He meant you’d have to buy an EM-1 to get the “improvement”.
No, that’s not what he meant. He was talking about “slightly improved electronic connection”, in other words about an external viewfinder. He obviously thought this rumor was about a slightly improved version of the external VF-4, to be used with the E-M1, not realizing that the E-M1 has a built-in EVF with the same specs as the VF-4.
Have you ever bought anything from Apple?
It probably cost about 10 dollars to manufacture… Olympus are an absolute joke. Just shows you the morals of fanboys – after one of the most serious corporate frauds ever, they still worship their middling camera brand, with their poor imitation super-small-sized sensors and way overpriced lenses (well I guess Olympus will be having to pay back the multi-millions they swindled, so will have to charge double for a long time. Olympus is so over the hill.
Sorry, but what cost 10 dollars to manufacture?
I can only guess he’s referring to the new EVF, but it would be a bit silly, because Leica happily sells the inferior vf-2 for 100s of dollars and their margins are high, but not that high. Then again, Leica is probably more evil than Olympus. Just guessing.
Fanboys alone can never keep a company afloat, dear. In that sense, your analysis is rather flawed. Welcome to world of free enterprise: as long as Olympus exists, your criticism is just hot air, because ultimately the market decides.
@mr allegro
Do you have a bank account…have you checked that no fraud has occurred in your banks history?
Your taxes contribute to some things you don’t agree with…
The world is not black and white as your simple mind understands it.
ckmaui…why would you want the VF to work in the dark? You cannot take photos with no light???? There must be light.
I have to laugh at peoples expectations sometimes…
I am sure that this VF kicks ass…sounds like the refresh time is great!!!!!
LOL!…so true…an optical VF doesn’t work too well in the dark either!!!!! 🙂
what I said
really hoping the focus is going to track better and work in dark better ?
not the EVF but the focus 🙂
I think most know what I meant 🙂 dark receptions or events where its not bright etc..
Ck…it’s not DARK at a reception…that is what we refer to as LOW LIGHT! 🙂
Better response in dim lighting will be welcome.
The devil is in details, right Oly? 🙂
This is wonderful to hear. It is necessary to make all those little adjustments and improvements on 1st generation products, especially those that are significant new products to make them perfect. This is often preferrable to big changes and risking again teething problems, which is common due to the fast releases. We have seen various issues with the X100, X-S1, GH-1, RX100 and other significant and innovative products, and how they were fixed only in the next versions, to make the product really shine. I suppose you can never beat the wide and thorough on the ground testing by thousands of real users on the ground, no matter how thorough and disciplined your experts in the factories are.
Olympus has released the VF-4 with the E-P5 and also let the E-P5 have the 1/8000 sec, and Focus Peaking, which are not even available on the E-M5. That was puzzling to a lot of people but it turns out that is a pretty good testing, whether intended or not, for all those features/products, before they are put into a pro and flagship product.
As well as testing out those features on the E-P5, it helps make the E-P5 attractive above the other PENs & to some degree the E-M5.
If Olympus was anything like the company it used to be six, seven, eight years ago, they would have long since provided focus peaking and the improved small-AF-field feature for what still is their flagship product, the E-M5, by firmware update. Like, for example, Fuji does.
As it is, we probably have to expect the same neglectful firmware update policy if we buy the E-M1 when it comes out. If it wasn’t for FT compatibility, I might rather be looking at Panasonic, Sony or Fuji just because of that.
Like Panasonic updates anything. How is that focus peaking on GH3 doing?
Gave focus peaking a try in the store on the EP5, wasn’t too impressed… It was using the 17.. f1.8, so maybe the DOF was too deep even wide open, or maybe the ISO 1600 was having an impact, but I wasn’t too impressed.
Having not tried any other implementation of the feature I havn’t much else to say 🙂
Well, any feature like this takes practice. Not everyone likes focus peaking, regardless of the platform. I’d rather have a little box within the scene with magnified view.
E-P5 overlays a white outline over areas that are within the plane of focus and called it “focus peaking”. The lines were difficult to see clearly and their accuracy seemed dodgy at time, it is a bit of a joke!
Any news on the video specs, admin?
Yes!!!??! 🙂 any news video specs, admin, if olympus improves on video: new codecs, raw, bitrate, 24,25,30,50,60p, like blackmagic pocket camera, in out jack audio, hdmi free, etc…… I will buy omd pro
Same question here, my OM-D has becomed my main still camera but as far as video is concerned 30p is useless for me here in europe, I need at least 50i and better 50p or I will have to go on carying a GH2 which ergonomics and viefinder I don’t like very much. Comon’ Oly, there is a huge market for video capable cameras, and only Panasonic ans Canon seems to care ! I would buy the new OM in a minute if its video specs where on par…
+1000e1000 😉 totally agreeeeeeeeee
I don’t get how they can just put PDAF on a sensor that already exists. Perhaps they began development at the same time but it took a while to get the PDAF to perform. Would love to see it in action!
I know form follows function but I have to say, the E-M1 is hideous. Maitani would be rolling in his grave! I hope those shots we saw were a test mule of components.
You are right, of course it is impossible to add PDAF to an existing non-PDAF sensor.
Unless PDAF uses existing photosites rather than dedicated ones. Then it’s a matter of processing only. I believe this is the future trend.
Yes, of course photosites are used but they must be paired optically. And there software only is not enough. Silicon can be basically any silicon but a sensor is not just silicon.
-p-
All you have to do is split select photodiodes into 2, or 4, creating “dedicated” cells. In fact, you could do it to every cell. This does require reworking and rewiring the circuits, but it would be considered a “modification” rather than “new sensor” if the photodiode technology and layout are essentially the same as before. The biggest headache will be in doubling the number of sense amplifiers without introducing noise.
If so, it would be only a matter of firmware! Here E-M5 users crying.
I guess an intelligent solution would need hardware improvements. Like Canon build in 70D.
No it isn’t there’s also alot of processing power needed. That might stand in the way of getting the E-M5 updated. Focus peaking however could be added without much effort.
1/8000 shutter or 100iso isn’t a problem to provide by FW either.
You’re right: it can’t be firmware only. There needs to be die-level change.
Also: I believe having on-sensor PDAF will compromise some of the dynamic range, but it would be confined to the modified cells.
Maybe it’s not exactly the same sensor but for example 90 % of pixels are exactly the same as e-m5 and only 10% are new pixels for PDAF so basicaly the pixels for picture are the same ?
Adding of phase-detection pixels has nothing with redesigning of the sensor. See http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-discloses-a-camera-with-on-sensor-phase-detecion/ for example.
The only thing that changes is the color Bayer mask and probably microlenses – instead of color filter there are clean filter that blocks light coming form one direction and passing from another.
After that it’s all about processing – those pixels are being excluded from the image raw processing flow in the same way as current hot/dead pixel remapping works – by mixing signals from near pixels. But used to do AF (very rough btw due to very small gap between righ-left detecting pixel, that’s why you need CDAF on the terminal phase of focusing anyways).
So you could perfectly add PDAD on sensor to the current silicone version. And it will have same parameters (except more wasted pixels).
Of course there are Canon D70 approach – but I don’t think Canon will share patents so soon with the rest of the world.
In comparesion with all kinds of solutions, I think what Canon has done on 70D is the best and perfect, that’s works just as a microprism-focus-screen and no IQ loss.
Yes, it’s most innovative approach I’ve seen till now. Yet I’d like to see some real world samples/tests from users first. Splitting one pixel on two requires additional metal interconnects that eats up the usable area of the photodiode(s). +Specific design of microlenses.
So I’d like to see SNR and dynamic range from this sensor – but more importantly normal pictures from real users 🙂
Hmmm… it does avoid die-level change, doesn’t it, but at the loss of light on many pixels…
This is not problem, Olympus has an patent from ca two year ago them use micro lens on the green pixel by differance focus point, and the Pixel so is in moust focus give also hight contrast, so we can say the is an tweak on CDAF but the also give PDAF info to, but is mot easy to do but an good reason to do this is, also the not give IQ loost so is very important.
Whiskeybravo: “I know form follows function but I have to say, the E-M1 is hideous. Maitani would be rolling in his grave! I hope those shots we saw were a test mule of components.”
Of course it is a test mule as you put it, or a prototype. Put together by hand from available pieces for testing purposes. Consider it a drawing of what we will see, not an accurate image. The final will be better.
The video was not meant to be released to the public and was a poorly made spontaneous test that was in some way mishandled resulting in its getting uploaded to the internet. Definitely not something that should have been made public. Try taking a look at the stuff Olympus does release for marketing, and like it or not, it is well done and cohesive, not a jumble of images from a jerky camera with unscripted commentary. http://www.youtube.com/user/getolympus
The video was not made by Olympus for marketing purposes, it was made by Engadget for their website and it obviously was intended for release to the public – after the official announcement – that’s why it was on their website.
Who do people think the video was made for, the commentators mum?
What Stig said. Olympus would not put Engadget book-ends on an Olympus video. (face-meet-palm)
Super glue. 😉
The VF-4 is a great viewfinder with its increased resolution and magnification, which equals a full frame SLR. But is has problems in low light situations where noise takes over and you wish for an optical viewfinder. If Olympus could solve that noise problem…
What you see in EVF is dependent on what is feeded into it from sensor an processor…
Already with E-P5and VF-4 you need a very good DSLR OVF to be better in very low light. Most OVFs can not really be used any more when VF-4 gets really noisy.
+1. You are right. Due to the fact I still rent DSLR’s from time to time I can confirm what you say. You can still frame with an EVF in situations where you can’t discern anything with an OVF. The downside is the low framerate of the EVF but hey you can actually see what you capture as opposed to an OVF where the scene is just black with a small dot and you have the choice to 1) pray the camera focusses on the right subject or 2) focus on the light source. Both methods are insufficient warranty for keepers.
Try taking photos of stars or planets with an E-M5 and focusing on the stars using the viewfinder. All you can see is noise. The trick is to use the magnified view – then one can see the stars to focus on, though it is still very noisy.
I think Olympus should work on a night mode option in the settings in which the viewfinder circuitry doesn’t try to amplify and boost the brightness of the image the way it does normally.
Turn off boost in settings, it is possible now.
Thank you! I’ll try that.
Focusing on stars? Isn’t it just focused to infinity?
If you actually want to get as much detail as possible, ‘just focussing on infinity’ will not get you there, especially not at longer focal lengths.
There is a reason telescopes have a focusser, and there is a reason why people being serious about using a telescope will happily spend a chunk of their budget on upgrading to a dual speed focusser so they can obtain more accurate focus.
Have you ever tried focusing on stars with OVF? From what you say I am absolutely confident you haven’t. Good luck with that.
I am sure you have never taken star trails with OVF.
Forget the noise in the EVF. Concentrate on the image that you are composing not the technical aspects.
1. Video spec?
2. Is C-AF improved with m43 lenses?
3. Which current m43 lenses can benefit from the speed (240 fps) of the new sensor?
After first questions
well, Olympus got pretty good at tweaking components after having to squeeze as much as they can out of Panasonic sensors they were stuck with for so long
As a user of the VF-4, I don’t know how it can be possibly improved in any perceptible way. Maybe a further reduction in lag? A greater diopter correction range? Something to do with focus peaking? Even shorter blackout in sequential exposure? I’m puzzled.
So, we’re back to the usual slow dripping of information before an Olympus announcement? Good. I prefer it to massive leaks :). Keeps the tension up.
Credits to Panasonic for providing the same crappy sensors year after year, thus perfecting the fine-tune techniques of Olympus Imaging.
Don’t blame Panasonic. Thank the skinflint Olympus Yakuza management team who could have gone to Sony at any point and bought sensors.
maybe Olympus were locked out of Sony sensors because of an exclusivity deal/contract with a competing camera company who were prepared to pay a premium called…
Is it really that easy? I think Olympus was stuck with the agreement using Panasonic sensors for a few years. If they would be able to switch to Sony years ago,we can only inagine how much further they would be right now. I dont blame Panasonic anything, their sensors were good enough, except for high iso range.
Here we go again with these “posts”.. yawn..
“Credits to Panasonic for providing the same crappy sensors year after year, thus perfecting the fine-tune techniques of Olympus Imaging.”
Hehe. But I actually think it is opposite: thanks to Oly’s fine-tuning skills, they could even get good IQ out of outdated sensor.
I have read somewhere that Canon and Oly, those two always held the crown of QA (quality assurance) and attention to details. So my theory is actually fits historical data.
P.S. And blaming it all on Panny is also unjustified IMO. I have read somewhere that Oly was getting insane discounts on Panny sensors (talks were about 75% discount). Think about. One can imagine that Panny might have got long term exclusive supplier deal as the compensation for the discounts. Later, no doubt Panny was unhappy about the deal too: they wanted to develop new sensors and new developments always costs more; yet they were contractually obligated to supply Oly with something cheap instead. That theory might also explain why they have refused the G3’s sensor to Oly: the discounted price would have meant way too big losses for Panny.
When you read something somewhere is it an actual fact, or is it like this forum where everyone blurts out knee jerk opinions as though they were facts? Canon and quality assurance shouldn’t be allowed in the same sentence. I think everyone with 1D Mk3 and 1Ds Mk3 still have focusing issues. And what about the original 5D Mk3 owners whose mirrors were falling out? Or 50mm 1.2L owners whose lenses were falling in half? Canon seems to be in such a competitive rush to get things to market that quality assurance seems to fall to the wayside. Not that everyone else is perfect, but they’ve had some colossal, embarrassing blunders on high-end product in the last few years.
Correct.
Canon’s QA drove me to Olympus 43. FF and BF issues with my L-lenses cost me a fortune on calibration fees.
Come to think of it, I owe Canon a thank you, after switching to Oly (m)43, my camera’s (E1, E5, E-420) never needed sensor cleaning or calibration.
To be fair I did get good prices on the Canon gear when I sold it.
I waiting finally Olympus add HDMI Liveview OUT
In the last part of the E-M1 film, it looks like they have what you want.
That was through WiFi, not a cable.
Are you shure? I meant the IBIS demonstration part with the Pegasus.
+1. liveview monitoring. You can’t do that with the EM5.
Very nice. I am very happy with the news.
But why can it be regarded as pro-spec? Still unclear…
“Pro” is marketing blurb. Certainly not a standard.
so true 🙂
shot 22 jobs last year using the OMD 🙂
did shoot along side a DSLR but to me choosing the OMD is like choosing a lens its a tool to do the job
When discussing “pro” specs of a future OMD in 2012, I seem to remember that the Oly representative mentioned a higher bandwidth internal “bus”, making it possible to dump images to the storage cards faster.
Pro spec usually means rugged and fast.
The camera and lens shouldn’t slow you down, so it mostly needs fast AF and card writes, weather sealing and robustness (body and shutter life), easy access to photographic settings and it would be nice to have the possibility it can simultaneously use 2 memory cards.
For Olympus pro spec also means they support it in the OGPS program.
But not all pro’s use pro specced camera’s all the time me included. The OM-D is officially not a pro specced camera but to me it’s enough. I also used a 20D and E-420 in the past and before digital I owned and used many non pro camera’s before using the EOS 1.
Maybe improved with bigger eye cup ..
😀 don’t set your expectations too high
Yes thats it. And grey version is standard. But there will be also a spezialiced black rubber version….
Less lag is imperative…i would like more pixel too ,it’s just ok now.
Have you used one?
On my E-P5 i’m very happy with EVF4 for portrait and landscaping…but for action look on the screen with E-P5’s fast response is better.
Dual high class SD Card Slots anyone? 😉
I’m pretty sure there is two slots ( in fact there is two lines on the side of the camera like the e-5) for sd cards. Thats great. Illuminated button would be nice like the nikon d4.
@kavat
configurable, responsive illuminated buttons would be awesome(you could choose which ones would illuminate and what colour 🙂 and responsive ie as it got darker they would get brighter)….
With configurable illuminated buttons, I would much favor the buttons not too brightly lit.
Maybe even an illuminated body so it would be easy to find in your camera bag? 😉
Let me guess: the improvement is a smaller form factor, because it is build in.
But of course, you cannot tilt it up at 90 degrees 😉
To be serious: even the EVF from the E-M5 is very good. ( I am using an E-5 until now!) So the VF-4 in the E-M1 will be perfect for me.
Looking forward to my new camera in 2014.
Modified viewfinder? Cue 500 comments!
@admin, any news/rumors on GX7 body/kits black/silver availability?
Looks good all round for the EM1. My only disappointment is that the “tilt-only” rear screen seems generally to have ousted the fully-articulated ones, such as those on my Panasonics. My own experience is that the latter are more versatile, much quicker and easier to use than the tilting screen of my EM5. Does anyone else feel that way? I can’t imagine there is much cost difference in producing one versus the other.
@johnhappy
The E-M1 has full tilt and swivel screen :]
How do you know this? It looked very similar to the E-M5 tilt screen. Most fully articulting screens have the hinge visible on the left side of the camera. Unless the E-M1 uses a new design, it’s just a tilt screen.
@narretz
“O” posted in the comments on here about a week ago, unless Admin let an impostor through!
@Narretz,
Regarding the screen and if it fully articulates (TILT AND SWIVEL) I’m not sure either, but if you have a good look at the leaked video and particularly the image of the hand-held camera, rear view, you can see a thicker part of the rear screen at the top left of the screen (viewing from the rear). Can’t see the base as it is hidden by the hand. The OM5 does not have this “thickening” so I am guessing that this may be the component or reinforcing for a tilt and swivel screen? One can only hope…..
No one cares…. (apart from nerdy fanboys)
Obviously you cared enough to make that post!
PDAF on sensor = different sensor. The E-M5 sensor can’t be modified for PDAF. Also, doesn’t removing the AA filter means new processing is needed. This is not just a transplant that you peel an AA off, tack on PDAF and go. Maybe the IQ will be similar, but with all these changes, it could be different. Maybe better.
One of the rumour sources stated that the E-M1 would feature an all new processing engine and that the image quality improvement over the E-M5 was significant.
I want to see a leak about the new kit zoom that’s supposed to be optically very good. I suppose there have to be one or two juicy secrets for the release event. The complete silence on video capabilities is almost telling in itself. Well, that may just be wishful thinking on my part. 🙂
Well also sensor is the sam but not micro lens so is on evry pixe. I think Olympus use than patent for PDAF so them have self.
Wish they simply used the vf4 and replacable so it could also tilt and put te hot shoe on top of the grip like on the old is1000 would have loved that is1000 high rise double flash head also, hey oly still possible, let it stick out in front of that hump… The cam is already ugly sooooo,
hmmm maybe an aftermarket idea…. Since it is ugly…
make a compact flash which uses the acc port together with the flash shoe for grip and nests in front and around it, just as a normal build in flash, slightly longer could be a lot longer, heck i am even fine if you add 2 aaa in front of that hump or rechargable cr123,
but should be able to flip up, preferably with a head which can do bounce and straight ahead as a wireless trigger…
As long as the head is not resting on any standard lens or at least the 12-60 50-200 with the 43 conversion I am game…
Tomorrow’s blog post: (ET5) E-M1 uses the same shutter as E-P5.
it will have a higher tested MTBF then any prev. Olympus MFT camera, so i doubt that it will be the same as the E-P5.
Maybe they have introduced an ir night mode to the Evf so you can at least focus in darknes
I know my old km a2 boosted the signal and switched to black and white, it was not super but it worked…
Heck even the rear view camera in my car does that as doe my webcams…
And since there is no aa filter maybe also no ir cut off?
Olympus: “Yeah, we ‘improved’ it by building it onto the top of the camera so it can’t get lost!”
Yes, but this thread is about the VF in E-M1, so I don’t understand his anger.
I still can’t understand why, if an OVF is *wonderfully superior* to an EVF, so many DSLR shooter jump to the LCD screen after each shot to “check the picture”… Wouldn’t it be better for them if they just could check the picture *before* they shoot it?
Only Ken Rockwell knows if a picture is not blurry BEFORE he shots it. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Thanx for the hint! I didn’t know him so I went to google and gave a look to his website… I’m sure he can take a picture without a camera too. Hopefully others know that too: http://www.anthonyhereld.com/buyer-beware-ken-rockwell/ 😀
I think for that remark you should have worked with a mediocre Evf compared to a real good ovf first.
Basic
A good ovf is bright and sharp and true in color making your composition and focus reliable, however it is not telling you the truth about metering, hence you want to check on your LCD after exposing.
Furthermore it does not have any lag effects if something is moving fast, does not give any issues for high contrast subjects or when the light gets low, basic the attached lens and your eyes limit in how dark you can shoot. Oh and if you have to play peeping Tom for long time does not drain your batteries regardless which bird you are watching
A typical Evf of let’s say 5 years ago, was not as sharp as a real good ovf and had all the fast moving high contrast quirks, in low light it switched to black and white and in the end you got te noisy tv screen.
However it did give a reasonable impression on what you might get on some cameras and did come with a magnification option, which comes in handy with tele or macro work.
A modern Evf is much sharper making it less distinguishable from an ovf. A lot of the quirks are gone though if you read around some are still there. But the plus points magnification and more wysiwyg are still there.
At this moment I do not think for a second it can fully replace the e5 ovf for those bird watchers and fast action guys. But for the rest of us like me it will do just fine maybe even better.
Still not know what Those ovf people mean… Hire a Olympus e5 a 50mm f2 a 50-200 swd a ec1,4 and shoot some of the mentioned stuff…. You might have to learn a bit about spot metering and the white balance modes or shoot raw and do some weight lifting first and a massage afterwards….
Admin – How is one person’s claim the VF in E-M1 is “improved but has same specs” as VF4 merit a FT5 rumor when it doesn’t even say how it is better? Sort of equivalent to saying every new camera is improved? Such rumors would be better classified FT2 or 3 until more details are provided or the rating process is cheapened in my opinion?
Note the viewfinder VF4 is definitely larger viewing area than the VF used in the EM5 and yet the size of the hump in the EM1 has not grown, neither has Oly or maker of video claimed it is using the VF4 or improved one in the video leaked??? While this rumor may well prove to be true in the end, still insufficient detail to justify a MT5 claim at this point in time?
not via electrodes connector, but direct connection internally can get faster data transmission.
So, this “improvement” should be its lower latency or faster refresh rate.
Does the PDAF improves CAF for video?
Um, where is the news in this post exactly ?
First up… an “improved viewfinder”… Oh. Oh. Cool. Great. This is NEWS! Um…. Q: Improved over what ?
… “that has the same specs as the VF-4.”
Ooooh, right. So, probably meant improved over the EM-5 then. Not improved over the VF-4 otherwise it would have the SAME SPECS AS THE VF-4 now, wouldn’t it ?!
Sheesh.
Every time you double the pixel size of the EVF, you must double the processing speed – as an approx.
I.e. the EM-5 has two refresh rate, the faster at the price of less resolution.
Now the processor must also be faster for faster CDAF and tracking. If I don’t err, PDAF gives only an initial cue, and CDAF does the rest, so processing speed is still paramount. I further assume that this is more taxing on the batteries, so you either put two, or change model.
It’s really like a concert, all the orchestra must play together. I remember a test LL took at the rodeo, with a calf charging towards the camera, a Sony translucent. It was able to keep it in focus, till the minimum distance.
I forgot to add the last sentence: so if you increase the focus speed, you must speed up the EVF too, and the reverse.
Probably the rumor is about the tuning up of the EVF to have it in sync with the faster focus of the E-M1, compared to the E-P5.