LX vs FT sensor size comparison. Image courtesy: Cameraimagesensor.
Last week an Asian source from SLRclub Korea (found via Dicahub) said Panasonic has a large sensor camera coming soon. I worked on that rumors and two highly trusted sources confirmed that Panasonic will launch a fixed lens compact camera with built-in EVF and a Four Thirds sized sensor. One of the sources also said this is not a “LX” camera.
The camera will be announced before Photokina sometimes in late August or very early days of September!
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Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
FT3=41-60% chance the rumor is correct
FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
110 Responses
Sounds great. I want one.
Lol……The sensor almost looks normal size in this picture. But in reality its still tiny. Why buy this where there are much better APSC and FF camera’s.
yeah totally agree..should have make sth. in competition to the ricoh gr and nikon coolpix a! So at least aps-c…..
Or zoom. Or brighter lens. Fixed f/2.8 prime is boring and should cost $50, not $1000.
Agree, but waiting to see what kind of zoom is there
Perhaps they don’t want you to buy their cameras 😉
cause MFT has best fun/quality ratio.
This is exactly right. You have captured the essence of MFT. My Olympus is the most fun camera I’ve ever had, and it makes outstanding images.
For those with a reading age of 3 years old “because these are COMPACT cameras”
Well Seizure, we know that giant sensors compensate for other tiny things. But a bigger sensor and bigger camera won’t make your brain any bigger.
plus 1
What is this guy talking about??? I had FF, I had APS-C and now I’m a more than happy M43 user. Hopefully I could get rid of all that old tech and still get excellent pictures (much more of course due to portability). Sensor size is important of course but not everything… maybe this moron don’t know anything about that. Seems the type of guy that can only take good pictures with the ultimate pro mirrored heavy and expensive Canikon gear. Some put gear before the photographer. Poor moron…
I don’t even think he is actually a photographer.
You must be new here
Can you actually take pictures? I’d say not, but just in case, you must be pretty bad at it. Why? Because you missed the obvious differences. If those diffs don’t matter to you, let me advise you on an excellent Canon G16, to replace all your m43 toys. You won’t regret it.
FF are crap, Real photographers use medium format like the Pentax 645 Z with 50mpx 44mm x 33mm sensor 🙂
No, large format rules. f/64 and be there!
Why buy a hamburger when you can buy a cow? Why buy a car when you can buy a truck? Etc.
SD… I mean Viezevure,
You mean “it’s”, not “its”.
Obviously a non-colonial education.
🙂
How funny, how sovereign… Now go back scrubbing.
You’re beautiful when you’re angry.
Did you go out shooting with you Nikon 1 over the weekend?
I knew!
So, is this comming instead of the LX8 with 1 inch sensor or will there be both cameras?
The way I read it is that both will be coming? As this 4/3 sized compact will not be an LX camera thus can’t be the LX8
Hmmm, but would an 1 inch sensor model aka LX8 still make sense if we get a 4/3 compact…wouldn’t they be to close and canabalize themselves? Just wondering.
If one has a zoom (the LX8) and the other is a prime lens (the 4/3 one), then yes, they’ll serve very different markets.
nikon coolpix A are way better!!
No viewfinder, crappy shutter, poor video options, slow burst rate and high price = complete Nikon fail in this segment.
“1/6.3 inch”? What kind of BS is this?
It’s 1/1.63 inch
“fixed lens compact camera with built-in EVF and a Four Thirds sized sensor”
This is that I was thinking of a month ago.
With current m4/3 sensors ( GX7 / OMD ) , it’s possible this incoming fixed lens camera got it’s own market especially if have to be cheaper than RX1 & X100S . Likely for wide angle shooters but is not for me .
Sounds promising, but one way Panasonic could screw this up is by overpricing it. It needs to be significantly less than other APS-C competitors from Nikon and Ricoh. Let’s not crap out on the lens either.
The Nikon and Ricoh don’t have a built-in EVF. The X100S would be its closest competitor.
I would think this camera would be much smaller than the X100s. Panasonic tends to go with the more modern, streamlined approach. Maybe GR sized even with the viewfinder? No reason for it to be larger with the smaller sensor.
Please do not paint yourself into a corner. Sensor size does influence the price, but it does not and should not explain everything.
There is such a thing as a premium for a superior optics, rugged build, weather seal, etc.
I agree that sensor size is not the be all, end all of a camera, but it remains a significant part of the total equation. Moreover, it is probably even more important to the perception of the enthusiast market. I am guessing sensor size is perceived as a greater deciding factor to the market than to yourself.
It is one of the biggest variable.
Until we see at least the specs, it is unwise to tell how much is should cost.
“fixed lens” is a bit ambiguous (to me), do you just mean a lens that is fixed to the body (but can be a zoomlens)? Or does it imply a lens with a single focal length?
this post is so ambiguous, we even don’t know if it’s one or two different cameras… and the GX7 discontinued post…. admin is not the same… maybe 43rumors was sold and we don’t know… 🙁
What’s so ambiguous? I am not a native English speaker yet I understood:
(a) there will be TWO new compact cameras, not one.
(b) Instead of just the smaller than 1″ sensor LX8 as previously rumoured, there will also be a larger sensor m4/3 model.
Whether that will be zoom or prime, usually “fixed lens” is used to denote a prime lens camera, like the X100 or RX1.
That’s not how I understand this rumor. And I hope it won’t have a zoom lens, just because a prime can deliver high IQ while still compact + reasonably fast. A m43 version of an X100 would be interesting.
I hear you. At that sensor size, I expect the fixed lens to be fixed focal length. Or as a let down, a slow 3x normal range zoom.
fixed means not ILC
fix focal length = prime
It means the camera has a single built-in lens, you can’t swap lenses on & off the way you can with micro-4/3 cameras (and, of course, others). Most camera manufacturers have built cameras like this (but with smaller sensors) that contain a prime (single focal length) lens, but it’s not necessarily part of the design.
I don’t understand why a fixed lens FT camera sounds so appealing to so many out there???
FT is significantly better than 1″ offerings and roughly on par or better than current APS-C compact performance from Nikon (A) and Canon (G1X). Recent cams by Panasonic have also been shown to deliver the highest value when feature set is considered (GH4, FZ1000, GM1, etc.). A fast Leica lens, 4K video, better styling, better interface, FT sensor and high frame rates combined will quite simply smoke the competition.
Really? So 43 is the only format that breaks the size rules? Tell us more, it’s funny. Whoops I meant interesting.
I don’t unterstand too, The GM1 with the kit lense is small engouh for every days travel and gives very good result. The only problem i have with this camera is the ergonomics and the lack of third party lenses.
You can contract the lens into the body making the depth of the camera/lens much shallower than a GM1 + lens. Also, you can design the micro lenses on the sensor for one specific lens giving better corner results in a compact design.
So will this drop soon, and a month later, be posted as Discontinued prematurely like the GX7?
If they think they can fool 10 people enough to post a link to the article and get 25,000 other people to go to this site, you can bet they will.
The GX7 has not been discontinued by Panasonic.
I hope it has a zoom lens, preferably a bright zoom lens. 2-3 x is enough.
For users lacking of patience I recommend a quite good 3-component workaround until this fixed lens FT camera appears:
1. Camera body: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-LUMIX-DMC-GM1-Digital-Camera/dp/B00I3KP33S
2. Lens: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-H-H020AS-Olympus-Thirds-Cameras/dp/B00DJS8322
3. Super Glue for setting together: http://www.amazon.com/SUPER-GLUE-SGH22-48-Super-Glue/dp/B00009V3VK
A very good approximation- I love my e-pm2 and 20mm. I’m just hoping that a fixed lens version would be reasonably pocketable, like the Ricoh GR. If it’s not much more compact, I agree that there isn’t much of a point. Buy a small body and a 28/35/50/whatever length lens you want, and call it a day.
Not a really good approx.
This would be the minimum:
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-H-HS12035-LUMIX-12-35mm-Series/dp/B00843ERMW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
But this config would cost about the 2x of the expected camera.
Negative, the Super Glue costs just $0.99 per unit.
I prefer a FT sensor with 12-45mm F1.8-2.8 zoom, that will be a perfect camera, light weight, compact, no need to change lens
It would be nice but not really compact.
I hope it’s a “action” oriented camera, with water/dust sealing and shock proof. There’s nothing like that on the market with a sensor this size and focus speed. It could very well be the perfect travel camera.
Simultaneously releasing similarly featured and sized M43 and 1″ pocketables with EVFs and zooms seems unlikely. The general public would have a hard time distinguishing them, as would Panny’s marketing. Is the 1″ LX rumor dead?
Too bad the Stylus1 didn’t have a 1″ sensor at its price point. That would have been a game changer.
But a rugged little mini GX7 with fast, tactile twist zoom and an EVF would be attractive and a great “placeholder” until a major sensor tech breakthrough (“Organic”) becomes available.
My bet is that the m43 fixed lens will be a fast prime, not a zoom. So there will be enough difference to market both.
Makes sense. But there are already tiny M43 bodies and pancake primes, so it would need to be an amazing combo to command a premium. CoolPix A and Ricoh GR are formidable but lack EVFs, weather sealing and tilting LCDs, so very beatable. And the Fuji X100s has great style and user experience, but isn’t pocketable. And the X20 is great, but the VF is weak and the sensor small. But the tiny, fast, twist zoom and handling and style is awesome.
IQ seems to have hit a plateau. A very high one. But a plateau
YEAAAAA!!!! I hope that this cam have a 12mp sensor m43 size and ALL GH4 video features plus clean 10bit hdmi and c4kl Fidef 35mm equiv f1.4. I buy this for 1200$
Finally a HIGH quality image in fixed lens optimized lens and body. I hate zoom lenses all with poor image quality! If panasonic put in this a 12mp new sensor i buy this on first day in the market
and i hope yes a EVF but no pop up! I wait a camera in size as fuji x100s
Fixed lens does not mean no zoom.
GOOD 🙂
The camera you seem so keen on has been available for some time now. How did you miss it? The Fujifilm X100/X100S – and with an even bigger sensor. Perhaps the new rumoured Panasonic will be smaller in size and quicker to focus/function with better video , so it will have its own niche regardless I suppose.
Makes little business/market sense to do that with a fixed lens camera. Who wants to shoot the highest quality video on 35mm equiv?
It will be a street photographer’s camera with some video features. Maybe 4k, but nothing close to what the GH4 offers.
I don’t think that’s possible because of battery life in a little camera. Why do you think some video modes are missing on the GM1?
a 35mm EQUIV F1.4 would be a 17.5mm F0.7 or did you mean the mFT denialist “equiv” lol
No, you lack understanding of this game. a 35mm EQUIV F1.4 would be a 17.5mm F1.4, or did you mean the physics denialist “equiv”?
Equivalent lenses cross format must have three things the same:
1, Equivalent AOV
2. Same DOF
3. And most critically same total light gathered
To match a 35mm F1.4 on FF you need a 17.5mm F0.7 to get the same AOV , same DOF and same total light gathered. It is really that simple though obviously not as simple as some.
The design could approach this but with a fixed lens
http://www.43rumors.com/new-panasonic-mft-camera-patent/
to small i hope in a solid cam with decent grip and decent external controls
The correct size is that of a less protruding GX7 with the viewfinder, a fast lens f1.4, and all the features 4k.
In addition, headphone jack, microphone output, and hdmi 10bit.
Panasonic can fit it all in less than $ 1,400
If it’s over around $800, it’s a non-starter. I wouldn’t count on great video features.
Agree on the price but I think it will be $999, initially, to give it “premium” cache, and bet every new high end Panny is packing 4K. That seems essential to help usher in TV sales too. $799 would be a homerun if style, handling and features are X100esque
800 is a LX8 but a fixed mysterious name camera m43 fixed fast lens is over 1000 for sure
I don’t get it why do you need microphone output. For most people a microphone input is enough.
Confirmed: We don’t need any more cameras.
No, we need continuously new cameras even if we cannot use more than 3-4 at the same time.
Not that I’m really interested in this particular camera, but, if I’m wrong in my knowledge I’m about to write below, can somebody refresh my memory as to what the difference is between Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds Sensor?
My understanding of the difference between Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds is that they were essentially the same size sensor (& basically performed the exact same), only Four Thirds (which came first) actually had a mirror in the system, much like a dslr.. once the switch to take out the mirror and go mirrorless was made, the sensor because known as Micro Four Thirds because the overall package with a mirrorless Four Thirds sensor was smaller or more “micro” in comparison to the predecessor which had mirror and was larger overall.
If true, seems a bit backwards to make this product since it wasn’t that popular to begin with as MFT is now.
M43 SENSOR AND A FOUR THIRDS SENSOR IS THE EXACT SAME SIZE.
THE FOUR THIRDS MOUNT AND THE MICRO FOUR THIRDS MOUNT IS WHERE THE DIFFERENCES ARE.
But is the difference in the mount because the FT has a mirror and MFT does not?
Yes the FT cameras were DSLR’s the mirrorless option has a smaller flange distance from the mounting flange (the metal ring on the camera and the rear of the lens) to the sensor plane. FT has a 38.67mm flange distance , mFT A 19.25mm distance
“Four Thirds” is the colloquial name of both the dslr mount and the sensor size. The sensor itself is specifically referred to as (4/3″ type).
People just call it a “Micro Four Thirds sensor” because it’s only currently found in those cameras.
Yes, you are correct. The Micro 4/3 mount uses a much shorter register distance because of no mirror, and the lens communication interface is designed specifically for high-performance CDAF (contrast-detect AF) operation. This was a landmark (though not unexpected) innovation from Panasonic starting with the DMC-G1 camera.
There is no m4/3 sensor. The sensor is the 4/3 sensor. If you look at the specs provided by Olympus and Panasonic, that is how they refer to the sensor itself. The m4/3 mount is smaller and with a shorter flange distance since it does not use the mirror. That makes no differnce for the sensor. The 12mp sensor Olympus used in the E-P1 was the same as the E-30. Olympus used that sensor in several DSLRs and Mirrorless models.
Because of the current state of the camera industry, I believe it would be in the best interest of each and every one of these camera companies to get together
and have a “WTF do we do now meeting”
Not sure that it matters since the visual comparison seems right, but the lx-5 actually uses a 1/1.63″ sensor which is a lot bigger than 1/6.3″
I’d love to see a line of aperture ring packing, weather sealed, tiny lenses (like the new Leica 15) and a weather sealed, Leica like, left side EVF toting, analog style tiny camera to wear them.
Honestly, if they were to make the successor of the DMC-LC1 with a fixed Panny/Leica 20mm 1.4, smaller than the Fuji X100s, for around 749.99, I’m SOLD.
Would make the perfect companion to my Fujifilm kit.
Oh, and keep it simple, no need for 4K video, leave that to the GH4 and keep the price down, oh, ibis in lens.
A tiny 3 axis ibis would be perfect. And I agree: make it a photo camera.
I don’t look for any future Panasonic camera sans 4K. Hi Res video is here to stay.
Any new Panasonic camera with 4K video will serve as an attraction for new buyers or step-up purchasers rather than being just another photos ONLY camera. The Nikon Df is illustrative. It is precisely the cell-phone photographers who are being courted with this type of offering. Soccer moms who want top quality video along with still photos. This is a market segment which has been absent for several years, and Panasonic is making a play to lure them back.
20mm = 40mm is too tele for a fixed not replaceable lens
35 mm or 30mm f1.4 would be perfect
40mm is a classic focal lenght. (See for example the Olympus 35 Trip D)
Personally I find it a sweet spot: both landscapes and portraits look great on that focal lenght.
35 mm or 30mm = 70 mm or 60mm is too tele for a fixed not replaceable lens
17.5 (35mm FFE) f1.4 would be pretty sweet
I believe GH2 sensor is actually a bit bigger than usual M43 sensor for multi-aspect..
It is. It is cool, but not a killer feature.
Where is the Trip-D? I still prefer Olympus…
it’s ok as long as my lenses are usable with an adapter.
I think you might have misunderstood; this post was about fixed lens cameras
so fixed lens – are they saying a fixed focal range as well? If so I am not thinking it would be able to compete with the Fuji X100s – if much cheaper it might sell – I am hoping for a big brother of the LX8 with a M43 sensor but similar specs – so of course a bit larger body to fit larger sensor and larger lens – I just do not think it will compete with the Fuji X100s in Image Quality – it will of course compete in ease of use etc as Fuji does is more geared for old school dials and controls and no Touch LCD, no Mode Dial etc etc – but the M43 sensor just cannot compete with the APS-C sensor in low light and some other aspects –
I am a diehard M43 owner and user and have 2 GX7’s and OMD-5 and OMD-1 and love them over the Fuji X and Sony NEX now Alpha Mirrorless due to lighter and smaller over all kit and the so many lenses – but it is a smaller sensor – and the user friendliness –
I do own the Fuji X100 and X100s and I have a mixed feelings – the X100 is useless due to super slow focus – the X100s is better – of course image quality is nice etc – I guess I like the retro looks but not so much the old fashion way of no Mode Dial etc –
Fuji now have a huge user base of X100/X100s and I assume a new model next year so I do not think Panasonic can ever win many of the Purists over – Sony has the RX1 with full frame sensor and great IQ as well but it has struggled to win many over from the X100s as for being almost twice as costly and not offering much better IQ –
So I hope this is either much cheaper then the X100s and with lots more features over the Fuji X100s or better yet a LX8 big brother
The X100s is rumored to be updated soon and it will likely cost US$1200 or more, so this camera, if executed right, could be a direct competitor with 90% of the IQ, twice the focus speed and half the size, at a lower but comparable price. And a tiny, fast, fixed zoom one inch LX8 to challenge the Fuji X20 update and Sony RX100iii seems warranted too. But it seems like Panny, Oly and Fuji are waiting for Sony to release the latest one inch sensor and the RX100iii will be first to market.
Panasonic is the leading company to design pocketable M43 body (GM1) . Now they should ass a tilting screen and very sharp folding lens (either single focal or zoom range).
It would be hilarious to build something as X100/S;
Single focal length !
Not pocketable !
Very expensive !
Additional lens to be mouthed, which are still non pocketable ! And what the heell ! What are those adapters ! Why did not you make it zoom lenses at first 🙂
Just hilarious.