I told you yesterday how the new GH 4K camera that will be announced on Friday is all about video. The new 16 megapixel sensor doesn’t improve the still quality. Panasonic main work was to create a body that can dissipate the heat produced by the new 4K camera. I also have been told the new GH 4K uses a 2,36 million dot OLED EVF. And it has no on sensor stabilization (unlike the GX7).
Panasonic didn’t set the price yet and the camera will ship in late Spring only.
These are the FT5 specs we know so far:
– New 16 Megapixel sensor optimized for 4K recording
– 2,36 million dot OLED EVF
– 200Mps and ALL-I intra mode recording (4K)
– Price less than $2,000 (final price to be determined).
Announcement on Friday Feb 7 at 5-6am London time. As usual follow the event live on 43rumors !
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76 Responses
As a GH3 user for mostly video work, this is all pretty exciting. Won’t be using the 4K any time soon (that gimmick is there to sell units for sure) but am looking to add this to my set up at some point in 2014
It is more important to have ALL the HD modes supported…
So for this camera to make sence it needs 1080 24/25/30/50/60p & 50i/60i at good quality.
Next most usefull would be 1080 at 120p at good quality.
Then 2.5k at good quality (for cropping)
Then 4k at whatever quality the HW can muster… but 4K is at the bottom of this pile – so I want to see the rest there too please, if this is to be a serious video and imaging camera.
Yes, yes and yes. If it has all of this then it’s a must buy from me. If they gimp it to be cheap or protect their other cmaera ill be having second thoughts.
Actually, if heat dissipation is significantly improved, then there would also be noticeable improvement in image quality for long exposure shots.
And long exposures are an Achilles heel of Panasonic cameras. It was the only reason I did not buy GX7 (which in every other aspect, was a ideal camera for me). And I’m kinda glad, E-M10 looks even better now, and has everything I need and want.
I’m still rooting for Panasonic on this. Hope they can start the 4K revolution.
I don’t get it. The one thing Olympus cameras have in their advantage for video is its IBIS. Panasonic was finally able to implement it’s own version for the GX7. It’s a shame that they will not make this feature available for their flagship model. Big disappointment for all video fans.
There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.
Heat dissipation requires large heatsink (heavy) -> increases inertia -> no IBIS.
Using Peltier? Again need large hearsing bound to the Peltier element itself -> impossible to decouple sensor, Peltier and heatsing – even more inertia here.
Active cooling? Air cooling – dust, water cooling… – I’d like to see that – should be funny 🙂
So either you have small matrix with IBIS and more or less high bitrate – or you have large matrix with IBIS and lower bitrate – or you have large matrix bound to massive heatsink (or construction) and no IBIS – but very high bitrate.
Well, I had hoped Panasonic would have figured out how to reduce the lunch’s price! Certainly, someone should be able to figure it out. If you’re right, then I guess they’re not quite there yet.
Yes, there are some other approaches already: like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu6Ucv4A06k (internal) or that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhuo82QBPpE (external) – if you are fine with those dimensions and weight 🙂
Maybe they could add a fan and blow cold air past the sensor. Maybe a shaking IBIS could increase the heat transfer? 🙂 [OK — goes into the category of useless engineering ideas…]
More mass at the sensor is even helpful if you have IBIS like olympus. Because you need more force to move larger masses and you want the sensor not to move when the cam shakes a bit.
your right, the sensor is trying its darndest to not move so mass in theory is not an issue – apart form the force required to “hover” the sensor in the right starting location (overcome gravity).
If you are really that dedicated to video production at 4k, then ibis is the least of your concerns. You will be attaching this puppy to a rig that will stabilize it far better, and with less distortion than a moving sensor.
True – Oly IBIS is bloody good for HD but even olys I bet will start to be problematic for 4k.
For a stills photographer, who would like to see a real flagship camera from Panasonic this new one is a disappointment. Did Panasonic actually rework the problematic view finder of the GH3?
No IBIS means still a significant limitation in the usage of lenses. Photographers hoped that Panasonic would start a new camera generation with IBIS build in as a standard with the GX7, but no, it does not happen.
The audience for shooting video with a massive 4K resolution will be quite limited, as the camera is by far not the only investment necessary for producing and viewing 4K footage.
All in all, Panasonic created a niche camera for a special target group. Nothing so useful for the general audience.
And since when top line body was aimed at general audience? GX7 is a lot more closer to general audience. And it’s actually nice for m43 world, olympus focusing on top-end stills, while panasonic going for the top-end video. There lots of other goodies for mainly video shooter apart from 4k ability.
What in the world are you talking about? There are currently two excellent stills (and video) cameras for the “general” public – the GX7 and GH3. And likely within the year we’ll see a GH5, the real successor to the GH3.
Yes, but will my nice mFT SLR Magic lenses from my GH3 be of any use on a 4K camera? Would they even mount? Would the same degree of crop apply as on the GH3?
Yes. Why wouldn’t they??
I’m not certain. Perhaps the glass doesn’t hold up at 4k as it wasn’t necessarily designed for it. Perhaps a 4K sensor changes the effective focal length of my lenses.
I don’t know what this new tech will affect…
Your lenses will be fine – 4K is the equivalent of 8MP (8.8MP/8.9MP to be exact). Your SLR Magic lenses are designed for 16MP mFT sensors. They’ll be fine.
Your focal-length will be the same 2X crop that comes with all mFT sensors. The GH4K’s resolution will not change your len’s focal-length. It’s like shooting 1080P on a GH3, albeit at a higher resolution.
Of course your lenses will work, they already work for 16K still photos.
Well, the stills are 16 MB all right (not 16K), something like 4592 x 3448 or so (GM1). The 4K video designates video footage 4000 pixles wide (as opposed to the usual HD 1980 resolution). But again, as teh optics are capable of handling the resolution for 16 MB stills, for sure 4K video will not be a problem, as the resolution and sharpness requirements for moving pics are normally less than for stills.
Yes, my math was haywire. 16 Mpix still photos are roughly the size of an 8K video image frame, so we have a long way to go before worrying about video sharpness with any of the high performance Micro 4/3 lenses.
I think you mean MP as in Mega Pixel..
as far as bang for the buc…stay with the GH3
Hmm not exactly burning up the Comments section, is it!
the target market for the GH4 is more likely to be found on dvxuser, vimeo and eoshd….
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?175-Panasonic-GH-Cameras&s=68a52ac9705b99af017fd912057423da
Panasonic GHx and micro 4/3 Community on Vimeo 13,600+ videos, 4500+ members nearly 1,000 forum topics http://vimeo.com/groups/gh1
If i want to shoot video i will buy a proper real video camera with a bigger sensor. Not a fotocamera which can shoot video like this one.
And from your comment we can see, that you never will shoot proper video or you would know more about “real video camera”
@zumz
My point exactly, Viezevure just showed their ignorance when they thought they were making a point… LOL
Poor Viezevure (and whatever other aliases he had previously and currently..)
Always sonned and beaten up badly few minutes after posting.. But he still keeps posting and posting more of those ridicolous comments!
What’s in it for him?! Is there a kind of pleasure in being beaten up publicly and humiliated like that, or is it just plain incompetence (á la Wile E. Coyote for instance)?
This could be an interesting point to debate..
Seizure is Amalric’s rational twin. 😉
+1
Hey bud, you seem to be really confused. Most “real proper video camcorders” have sensors SMALLER than m4/3. Don’t confuse any APS-C of FF unit as good video unit.
Aww…..you can not blame Viezevure for trying. The one trick pony troll comment works 9/10 times over here.
Only this time it was actually funny.
Yeah, now tell me wich “proper video camera” shoots 4k and has a large sensor for less than 2k$. You probably don’t know what you are talking about
It’s a hybrid camera. It’s designed to do both equally well. Why should we have to choose either-or when one can be more than capable of handling both tasks? It’s the same reason why very, very few smartphone users carry dedicated mp3 players anymore.
Sqweezy – you’re exactly right. The GH cameras are hybrids, equal parts video and stills, AF works just as good in video as stills and the functionality of the camera remains the same regardless if the photographer is capturing still frames or motion frames. It’s all just data to the GH cameras.
So we’re about to enter 4K and the ignorant still see it as “video” when video is nothing more than 24 still frames per second (or 30 or whatever) so what about when “video” is 16mp per frame? Right now there have been plenty of pros on the high end shooting with the Red for print media and the 4K footage prints well.
So where the Red is a 4K camera for cinematographers the GH cameras are designed for the photographer which makes a huge difference.
The fear of photographers not shooting video goes deep and is based on their cameras suck and video and perhaps the photographer relies too heavy on post so their video clips look a mess which means hours in post. If a photographer can, with the same exposure, capture a still and then shoot 4K video that has the same look and feel as their stills? That’s a huge win.
So camera geeks probably won’t understand and appreciate the new GH but there are thousands of pros around the world that will be lined up to get this body.
The only other DSLR shaped body that shoots 4K is the EOS 4K body which is like $12,000. The new GH will be a big deal and a game changer.
Perhaps being ignorant is something you like, but please don’t make total idiot out of yourself
and leave sensor size out of this discussion. What “proper real camera” are you referring to?
What cameras are used by people who live out of video production?
How many of those use sensor that has same size as your beloved “FF-sensor”?
Out of those that use “35mm” sensor, how big part of that sensor is used for capturing HD-video?
If you can answer those questions, you will realize how ridiculous your statement is, if not at least get educated before you choose to enter the discussion.
If DSLR-s sized cameras are not used as main cameras for major part of video productions it is because of other reasons like ergonomics, few external controls and connections etc. not because of size of their sensor.
Viezevure-san loves to drop bombs, with nonsense comments…
So is it all but confirmed that the body will be identical to the GH3 then?
Another mistake from Panasonic. End of story.
Yes, a mistake to increase video resolution – I wish cameras could have stayed at 640×480. Doh…
With this new camera Panasonic will not sell more cameras, why this GH-4k will be a best seller? The customers needs more than just a simple update over GH-3, must be something enterily new to be it on top. With this model Panasonic will have just one of the best video on a camera, but is this enough? I don’t think so.
You won’t have to wait long to find out, as the GH5 will be out in the fall.
He was obviously talking about ergonomics not resolution.
So it appears they took heed to the EVF complaint. I’m willing to bet we also see focus peaking in this model.
I suspect that focus peaking would almost be necessary (not just nice) for many manual focusers when trying to work with 4K and shallow DOF. GH4K with an F0.95 would be a perfect interview test for candidate focus pullers!
I think it is other improvements, aside from the 4K, that will make this camera interesting.
All the “photographers” need to stop bitching and moaning. Especially the ones that are ignorant to just how large the independent cinematography community is. This camera isn’t meant for you “photographers”. Move along. If you can’t make great photos with the GH3, the problem isn’t the GH3.
I cannot take great photos with the GH3 because I haven’t got one.
I am not planning to buy one either, because I can have a proper camera for a similar price, with just a little more bulk. In fact, I have a couple of those already.
Even though I own a GH3, I actually agree somewhat as I also own a D7100 and a NEX-5n. I find myself using the D7100 and NEX-5n much more than I do the GH3 when it comes to photography. However, when it comes to video, I use the GH3 exclusively (alongside my Blackmagic Pocket Camera). However, I have done many photos with the GH3 and I think it delivers great images – albeit with the good lenses – but that goes for any camera.
For “videographers”, OMG
Thats the reason because Panasonic GH4k will have IBIS.
XDDDDDDDDDDDD
Great move Panasonic, great move
Another half coocking “video” camera.
PFFFFFF!!!!! double facepalm
>>>Thats the reason because Panasonic GH4k will have IBIS
IBIS is a problem with video for a number of reasons…
– Large heat-sink required to cool sensor makes IBIS difficult to implement
– IBIS makes noise that can cause problems with on-camera audio recording
This is why Panasonic has been backing Optical Image Stabilization in most of it’s lenses, as IBIS is not a video friendly technology.
What specs? Nothing you have already told us pimp!
Because Panny no longer innovates in photography.
The GH4K and the AF100 successor will hit Canon hard in the video segment and make it harder for Nikon to enter the video world, also lots of videographers appear to have canceled their Black Magic 4k pre-orders (fed up waiting).
Hopefully the GH4K will do 4K and high fps well and have a few nice surprises 🙂
The GH4K will NOT take away market-share from Blackmagic if it lacks a 10-bit codec – whether it is in 4K or 1080P, it must have a 10-bit codec/colour-space in order to be a serious threat to Blackmagic (I wont even bother going into RAW).
If it does, however, lack a 10-bit codec/colour-space, it will need things such as 120FPS @ 1080P, focus-peaking, XLR, and so forth, in order to get a good foot-hold.
Being an owner of a BMCC, BMPCC and a GH3, I can tell you now – once you have filmed in 10-bit, it is very, very hard to go back to 8-bit. It’s a world of difference (especially if you know how to light and grade).
As for Canon – Panasonic isn’t so much a threat – why? Because many of the people that buy Canon cameras, such as the C100, C300, C500 and 1DC, are people that are heavily invested in Canon/Canon-EF mount lenses. They are also people that enjoy Canon’s low-light performance (even though anyone that has used a Sony FS100, or F5 will tell you that Sony’s low-light trumps Canon’s, and is much better value – hell, even a Blackmagic Pocket Camera with an 18-35 F1.8 + Speed Booster gives the Canon’s a good run). However, if Metabones final gets their s**t together and brings out the EF to MFT Speed Booster…well, then you’ll see some fireworks…
Yeh I fear this 4k might be as usless as the 4k smart phone – 4k is for best of the best… so you better be able to do imaculate 1080 befor pushing 4k!
As I understand there are just two really decent an competitive cameras from Panasonic right now (at least for ones who don’t care about video): the GX7 and the GM1 respectively. All other Panasonic cameras are either outdated or outperformed by the competition (E.g. E-M1 is clearly better than GH3 in all aspects.)
Panasonic should improve the line for stills BESIDE the one for video, otherwise it will lag behind Olympus and Fuji!
The E-M1 surely doesn’t outperform the GH3 in video.
If only the EM1 had 25/30/50/60p video… WINNER!
And what about the 3000+ viewfinder?
I’m not into video myself, but I am happy if Panasonic produces this nice camera.
Regarding the lack of improvement in sensor quality (stills): I suspect that the current quality of m43 sensors is approaching a limit in quality, and that it will take some sort of “quantum leap” in technology to improve it significantly. There has been little improvement in sensors for APS-C and FF, too: the A7r is similar to the 3 year old (?) D800, etc.
While waiting for improvements in sensor quality, the focus will be on improving usability, LCD/EVF, connectivity, menu system, bandwidth/video, lenses, etc.
Personally, I don’t mind that more focus is put on other things than the sensor quality: the quality of the latest m43 cameras is sufficient for me — it is rather I, the photographer, who is the limiting factor in the pictures.
I haven’t heard of any limits being reached (there are so many things I haven’t heard of though:-)) Sensors require so much investment that it’s pretty normal for companies to decide to use the same sensor for multiple bodies in order to amortise costs — look how long the 12MP sensor lasted, for example.
Less than two years ago the EM-5’s sensor seemed to be an incredible achievement. Now Panasonic sensors have recently caught up, and that would also be seen as an incredible achievement had we not got used to the output of the 16MP Sony sensor.
Canon’s 18MP sensor has lasted for 5 years, and given Sony sensors’ improvement over that time it doesn’t seem to be because Canon had reached a *technological* ceiling.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the GH4K sensor was exactly the same as that in the GX7 and GM1 (both of which, I recall reading on EosHD, are theoretically capable of 4K) only with different external wiring. They’re just reducing costs; improved sensor technology has already been announced (micro colour splitters; organic sensors) and will be along when it makes financial sense (including yield rates, scalability etc.) to introduce them, I guess.
I agree with you – sensor technology has not drastically improved in the last 2-3 years – but has improved quite a bit from say 5 years ago of course –
One thing Panasonic can do is remove AA filter for starters like Nikon, Olympus, Fuji and Sony –
The other thing is to make the sensor Back Lit – similar to the Sony ExmorR sensor in the RX100M2 and HX50v – also Olympus has a back lit sensor in their new Stylus 1 which I suspect is a Sony sensor – but that means that Sony has 3 sensor sizes that are now back lit –
I have the HX50v and Stylus 1 and there is very noticeable gain in low light performance – and that is an area that the M43/MFT sensor can improve in –
The other thing is lens technology – can they start making lenses that are smaller and lighter for larger sensors – the new kit lens for the GM1 is interesting due to it’s size – could they for example produce a eq of 24-70mm F2.8 in that small form factor?
So it might be true that for now we will not see any major improvements in the MFT sensor but at least remove AA filter and make it back lit –
I reckon for photography anywhere any time (dark grave yard at night/moon lit images) at reasonable 1/20th sec shutter takes an F1.8 lens and (clean) ISO 25k with IBIS that will give 3 stops so you could expect good hand held images from the Oly 75mm lens in the dead of night 🙂 thats about as low as you will ever need to go!
Then they can stop making better high ISO… (approx 2 stops better than EM5)
i hope that they will surprise us with more lens
4k looks interesting but not some thing i will drop €2000 on this year
Somebody coul tell me if there are a bit diferente betwen ProRes 10 bits and AVCHD 10 bits. There is a real diferente?
I am glad to see the GH4k – leading the video market – will cut in on Canon 5D MII/III 🙂
However – I think the 4k revelation will take a long time – especially for 4k brodcasts and then new media and media players to play 4k – even though TV’s will be way ahead of the game –
3D just has struggled and struggled and it seems like most people are happy without it – so I am thinking that there will be many that will not be spending precious income on 4k devices for a long time as HD is not bad – and the fact is that most HD is even compressed so 4k will be far off in broadcasting –
So I wished Panasonic would have put more emphasis on a smaller Pro Grade M43 camera – something between the GX7 and GH3 –
I just fear that Fuji is getting most of the attention now – and I am suspecting that the superb GX7 is not selling that well – it is truly an awesome camera – but the Olympus OMD-EM1 shows that there is a market for something between the GH3 and GX7 –
something rugged similar to the Fuji X-T1 as I think many think the GX7 is not rugged enough for Pro work –
If Panasonic made their MFT sensor back lit and no AA filter and put phase detect
on it then it really could surpass the competition –
The key is to improve the MFT sensor – not go to larger sensors as that will only make the lenses larger and heavier –
Interesting read on the subject:
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/why-4k-heres-why-not.html
forget the nonsense that nobody needs 4K nor nobody can use it. I will happily make 4K movies of my growing children and I absolutely don’t care I have nothing to play it on TODAY. I will be happily watching those memoirs in 2-3 years when 4K will be everywhere and will be not complaining about your 1080i… what quality will you have when fullHD is drop dead and forgotten ?
Ha, don’t you mind playing HD-Ready (yes, 1280×720 !!) today ? How does it look like, how will it look like in year or two upscaled 10 times on 4K ? Ahaaaaa… didn’t think about it, right ?
Hell yeah, I bought Seiki 39″ 4K for 499$ – I use it as computer monitor now. I didn’t want to buy 50″ or 65″ model as they were unnecessary expensive for me and unnecessary UNUSABLE (I can’t use 65″ as computer monitor, but 39″ is one sweeeeeeet thing). Right, I have zero 4K content to play. No distribution, no TV, no satellite, and for sure no home-made videos yet just because there was nothing I could afford. Sony AX100, 2000$, not available now. Panasonic GH4, around 2000$, not available at all. Anything that does 4K today is like 4000$ or much much more. That’s not for me.
I only wish I could afford filming 6K or even 8K back for XX years… I would do that without blinking an eye.
The rest of you who say otherwise – you just don’t understand it.
I’m praying for it to be in the same form factor and same button configuration as the GH3 so I can keep using my underwater housing (made for the GH3)