[shoplink 28231 ebay]
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Image on top: the [shoplink 28231 ebay]OM-4t (here on eBay)[/shoplink], the first camera with a built-in spot meter.
A couple of years ago Olympus said that 12 Megapixels were enough and there was no need to increase the Megapixel number on the Micro Four Thirds sensor. I tend to agree with them but I would have been happy to see some sort of new “version” of the current über-used 12 MPX sensor. Now according to two trusted sources and a new source (Thanks!) Olympus choose a 16 megapixel sensor for their upcoming new digital OM-D camera. I have been told that the sensor has been “tweaked” by Olympus to get a a super EVF performance. The new electronic viewfinder is really the most advanced new technology of the camera. The sources didn’t tell me if the 16 Megapixel sensor is basically the same as the one used for the [shoplink 22077]G3[/shoplink] and [shoplink 26836]GX1[/shoplink] but I guess the answer is yes.
Message to sources: I always try to double check rumors before to post them. As you can imagine I get many false rumors and I don’t want to make a mess. A particular thanks goes to the new source that send me the name and the specs of the camera. I am double checking it and will post them soon on 43rumors! I have some question to all of you:
1) Will Olympus announce “something else” along the camera? Like lenses and adapters…
2) Can you tell me more about the new EVF?
Thanks!
P.S.: Hope to get some GH3 specs soon too 😉
299 Responses
Progress – albeit not a quantum leap.
Their marketing suggests the viewfinder was where the “leap” is at.
If they beat the NEX-7 EVF resolution I’d be impressed. If not, just another mostly cosmetic ho-hum release.
So if they equate (and don’t beat) the NEX-7 in resolution, it is jus a ho-hum release. And the resolution is the only quantity that counts. Do you really mean this?
Yes. It probably means Panasonic will come with a new 18MP sensor for the GH3, or a better 16MP sensor maybe with global shutter. Looks like Olympus will go from the outdated 12MP sensor to the soon-to-be outdated 16MP sensor… But still progress.
Increase from 16 to 18 MP is negligible in every sense of the word.
did the G3 not get some of its nice IQ by using special trickery – smoothing the gradients and upping the contrast/sharpness on edges – resulting in overall better looking (sharper), and less noisey images?
If so maybe the G3 sensor is not much better then the old 12Mpix one – just better because of image processing!! Which would mean if Oly does not use same method we might have noisier images from Oly using this sensor????
Of course if this is the GH2 sensor then we are in for a good machine, without doubt! GH2 sensor used no tricks – just pure quality!
What a pitty! It looks like there are no mft sensor innovations! Is it time to change the system? Sony or fuji?! They bolth have more “pro ambition” than pana/oly or what do you think?
Sure, go with Sony with their useles, oversized lenses & Fuji with yet another exlusive mount & limited lens range (which will also be larger). There will always be a compromise somewhere, no matter which system you use.
Why, is something wrong with the camera you have? Enjoy taking pictures, that’s what it’s about.
Agreed. If rumor is true this does represent REAL progress. Importantly, if the new camera has a new sensor… that sensor will trickle down to the PEN series as well. If history holds true, whatever sensor is in the new camera will be the sensor that Olympus uses for years to come… so I hope it is good.
What remains to be seen is whether the Olympus variation (a different post-processing engine?) is up to the task of competing with the newer EVIL cameras.
it starts to become interesting…
count me in for this one … as long as its not bigger then my EP3
I agree but considering that they will have weathersealing as well as an integrated EVF, I think its going to be bigger than EP3. How big? That’s the question.
😀 😀 oops just as I predicted a couple of days ago 16mp for “marketing reasons” 😀 😀
updated:
yes, I’ll think they’ll announce a weather proof micro four thirds to four thirds adapter and also a GPS unit and maybe new flashes…
OK, good news. Now, if the EVF is in the right (left) place……
It’s going to be an OM styled camera. The evf will be in the center of the camera.
Not for me then….
Not for me then….Never mind, money saved!
Big nose ?
Yep, and used to keeping one eye open when using telescopic sights!
There are niches for you on the market 😉
No complaints here – I’m left-eyed.
Yeah bit annoying that the EVF will be in the center, one step forward two steps back.
And using the soon to be outdated 16mp sensor, my faith is officially shaken.
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Nose into the palm of your right hand then?
Same here…
At 16 Megapixel on m43, what is the limit to resolution; the lens sharpness or pixel size?
The SHG lenses are, IIRC, designed to a 20MP limit.
Lens sharpness. Pixel size would start to limit probably around 20-24 mpix. Depends on technology and AA filter (or lack of it).
There is a theoretical limit due to the Nyquist limit (where more samples won’t increase resolution). But more MP will still improve demosaic until 2 x Nyquist rate and improve SW noise-reduction (apparent noise can be reduced far more with SW than the noise added with the smaller sensels). 4/3 should have room for > 30MP.
Although dynamic range and color fidelity will suffer unless basic sensor technology (AD-converters, well depth, et.c.) is improved with every generation. Note that the analog part of sensors are not improved by shrinking processes and Moore’s Law. Sensel och AD-converters are quite difficult to improve unless you’re willing to spend a lot on exotic materials and purity. This is probably why you won’t see the GH-sensor in a G/GF-series camera, the sensor is probably a lot more expensive due to better AD-converters. You get what you pay for and analog technology won’t get much cheaper by time.
It sounds to me that the Olympus’ “new sensor” is the GH-2 sensor but unlike Panasonic’s implementation on a flex strip, it will be in a ceramic casing to allow for sensor shake.
While nothing new, I am interested because the GH-2 sensor is very very good and if Olympus make an E-5 mini with a swivel LCD and an integrated EVF, what else more can one ask for?
All good, so far! 🙂
I hope they wont make a copycat of the GH2. Better ergonomy, better build quality and first of all better sensor are needed.
Panny is the only company making 43 sensors. It wont be a sensor better than GH2. It is likely not even the GH2 sensor. Probably the G3 sensor, but if it is the GH2 sensor, its likely because th GH3 is about to be released with a still better sensor.
Either way, it doesnt matter. Any of the 16MP panny sensors will give the Oly +1 stop in ISO noise, and thats a good thng.
They could use any of the better APS-C sensors with multi aspect capability. Who cares if the sensor is a bit bigger than needed?
A bigger sensor means retooling the IBIS, the whole board. For a company that is financially strapped, it’s not possible.
I apologize if this is harsh, but people making this claim have no idea what they are talking about. No idea of the design, build and manufacturing of eletronics.
Agree, the IBIS most likely implicates the GX1 type of sensor, unfortunately not the oversized GH type. Could be carried over directly from the E-30 camera.
I think most of us would trade the IBIS for best APS-C performance, but IBIS is like a trademark of PEN cameras so it is unlikely ;).
I hope they managed to increase DR, competition is 3 EV ahead. Those 16 MPix 4/3 sensors have the same DR of 10 MPix ones, only GH series are slightly better at this department.
Sony is using similar type sensor shift stabilization with up to full frame sensor so there’s no reason why it shouldn’t work with GH2 sensor with little changes to mechanical parts.
It can work, it’s just an investment to REWORK it. As you might know, Oly is not rolling around in money right now.
Hey, I’ll be really excited if it’s the GH2 sensor. I’d love that, but I just doubt it.
Oly claim its business as usual and the camera division has not been affected by the turmoil. Lets hope that is true.
Canon’s new G1X uses a 43 sensor! A 4/3 aspect ratio, that is, but with a crop factor of 1.85. Thus, technically speaking, Olympus could have used this one. But probably they won’t…
As far as I know Canon doesn’t sell their sensors to other companies like Samsung and Sony do. That’s a shame, the Canon G1X ISO test DPR posted Friday is mighty impressive. They’re supposed to post a gallery of real world shots sometime today. I will hold off my judgment until I see them, but based on that first ISO test I’d say it looks like Canon is able to get one more stop of usable ISO out of a m4/3’s size sensor than Panasonic has been able to do.
Edit. Scratch that. DPR has posted their real world shots from the G1X:
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/albums/canon-powershot-g1-x-preview-samples
They don’t look any better than the Panasonic GX1 to me. ISO3200 is pretty muddled.
Canons sensor technology using the same pixel pitch as their DSLR line, is still a analogue output sensor, not much better than the Panasonic GX1 technology. Still lagging the column-parallel A/D conversion technique à la Sony sensors. Unfortunately, no big difference or improvement at all, if using a Canon sensor in a MFT camera. Await DXOlab for confirmation.
“Await DXOlab for confirmation”
^Or you can just, I don’t know, look at photos taken with it and decide for yourself. Crazy, I know. Bring on the bar charts!
Judge a camera by the photos it takes? That’s crazy talk!
The improvement in Canon sensor is significant according this direct test with GX1:
http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1354/compact-canon-g1-x-powershot-bruit-electronique-12.html
At least 1 – 1 1/2 stops…
that would be a silly move because their lenses would not cover the larger format !!!
Harold
Well, it is not that much larger. And it would be far better than using an APS-C or FF sensor. But I doubt it will happen.
Vivek
I totally agree. This would be the right stuff for me.
G3 sensor is also a likely candidate; according to some it’s m43’s best for stills, which is Olympus’ game. Panasonic will probably make sure the GH3 is released before Olympus can have a go on the GH2’s sensor…
The multi aspect sensors are used only on the GHx models, they were never offered to Olympus and Panasonic does not use them in any other camera line.
If the 16MP sensor is from Panasonic, most chances it will be the same one used in the G3 and GX1.
And if sensor availability has ANYTHING to do with GH availability, it’ll be 2015 before we see any OM-Ds.
How long has it taken Panasonic to get the GHs to the people after release?
why can’t olympus make their own sensor… 🙁
Because it’s really expensive to do so and they have no prior experience in these things, unlike the other manufacturers who have been at it for so long. Considering how they’re even $1.7 billion plus in the red due to the recent scandal, Olympus has little in the way of resources to even think about making their own sensors.
What do you mean by “make”?
Do you mean build and manufacture. Any idea how much investment that costs? No way.
Do you mean design, and then use a contract manufacturer (or even outsource the design)? Far more plausible, but the volumes would be so low, the cost per unit would be quite high, and I’m guessing Oly at this time in their corporate life doesn’t have a) the current resources to pull that off, not b) the demand for their cameras to justify that.
I hope they will get a seriously improved sensor compared to the GX1. The 16mpx from Panny is good but not good enough to be on par with the competition in 2012. How could this camera compete with the X-Pro 1 then?
I do not think the m4/3rds cams (any) have a chance against the Fuji X Pro 1 in terms of image quality.
Compete? Be realistic.
Not now but maybe in 1-3 years. It’s hard but I can live with that. Sooner or later we will catch up.
And then, Fuji and Sony sensors will still be ahead.
Unfortunately, I think you are right. m43 needs an “Apple moment”, like with the iPhone. Apple completely blindsided the phone makers, and they’ll be a step or two ahead for a long time because of it. (not forever).
IMHO m43 had its chance to have that Apple moment, but then gave it away by focusing on secondary things like the race to making the smallest camera. They STILL don’t have a fast zoom, yet there are a bunch of kit lens iterations. (I know it’s coming for sure now, but it should have been sooner). Just to name a few things.
I think m43 still has a chance, but they must must must focus on innovations with the sensor technology. Presumably, Fuji has shown that sensor size does not have to be a hindrance. Heck, even Nikon is showing that with the 1 series, although those sensors are too small for other reasons. Pana/Oly needs to do the same.
I honestly believe that m43 is the perfect format for photography. I think it has the biggest possiblities in the balance between image quality and physical size. That being said, there are still times I miss my several years old Canon 40D. That just shouldn’t be at this stage in the game.
I agree with Berneck.
Fuji and Nikon have shown that sensor size was not that important compared to the technology inside. Let’s face, if only Olympus could use a cropped version of the 24mpx from Sony (the one in the NEX-7), they would certainly be able to compete, even with the X-Pro 1.
I’m sure Olympus can keep up with the competition if only they do not charge too much and dramatically improve their sensor.
So if I’m happy with Fuji or Sony now, I should be ok then. Phew!
Seriously, things do not work that way at all. Technology development tends to stagnate every know and then because of a) laws of physics and b) value generated for average consumer – look at the xbox 360 and the PS3; they’ve been around quite some time now. Many people are happy with current cameras, in 2-3 years this will only improve.
Net result: only pixelpeepers and spec-nerds will care. They are unimportant in the bigger picture.
“only pixelpeepers and spec-nerds will care. ”
Non of them hear shawly 🙂
If your on a site like this you are a spec-nerd…. 🙂
How much do you think Oly will charge for this camera, with the new kit lens? $1,200? $1,500? $1,700?
It won’t be able to compete with the Nex 7 or Fuji in terms of sensor. But if they are going to charge those kind of prices it better have a weather sealed body and some other goodies.
I better throw away my E-PL1, then. Just because it’s not at the bleeding edge of technology doesn’t mean the camera isn’t great – and as implied there’s much more to a camera system than a sensor, or even the camera itself.
And how do you know what the IQ on the new Fuji is? I haven’t seen any independent comparisons from production cameras and lenses.
The XPro1 costs a couple of times more than the GX1. Comparing those two is like comparing a VW Golf to a Porsche.
More like a Golf to a WRX…
We still don’t actually know the price of the X-Pro 1. I was one of the few that managed to get a pre-order in before they were taken down, my order is still valid, but I got an email telling me the price will change. However, it could very well be “only” $1500 for the body and $600 for 35mm/1.4 lens.
A GX1 is $700, the add on LVF2 viewfinder is another $250,and the Panasonic 25mm 1.4 is $550…for a grand total of $1500. That’s still $600 cheaper, but that gap could close depending on how Fuji prices their bundles. They could possibly sell it with the 35mm/1.4 lens for under $2k for all we know.
don’t we remember the advantage of m4/3? ….they compete by allowing a package size about half that of the X-Pro 1.
That’s simply a design choice Fuji made (clearly aiming at the Leica M9). APS-C cameras can be nearly as small as m4/3’s cameras (as Sony and Samsung have shown).
Lens size is always the argument used when saying m4/3’s is smaller, but that’s really just a design choice as well. For some odd reason Sony hasn’t yet made any collapsible zooms and only one pancake prime. When comparing similar designs such as the Panasonic 25mm 1.4 vs the Fuji 35mm 1.4 the size advantage is non existent. The Panasonic 14-45mm is also about the same size as the Sony 18-55mm. As soon as Sony, Fuji (unlikely), or Samsung copies the new collapsible power zoom 14-42mm X lens the size debate will be a wash.
While true for certain lenses, all we have to do is look at the 45mm f2.8 macro and compare it to the 30mm macro from Sony… Or the 45mm F1.8 from olympus and compare to the 50mm f1.8.
While the equivalence between the lenses may be different, an equivalent macro on the sony with OIS and an F2.8 aperture will be larger than the 45 from Panasonic simply due to the longer FL. While the larger sony sensor will mean better noise performance at higher ISOs, we are still achieving the same shutterspeed and reach in a smaller more compact lens.
I think the real advantage in m43rds is the lenses, each lens system will have lenses they can make pancakes easily due to the sensor size and flange back distance… As they move out of that FL it becomes harder and harder.
Say olympus makes a 100mm macro for m43rds, it will have a reach of 200mm, Sony will have to produce a macro of 135mm to match the reach (or thereabouts) and f2.8… It will be larger. And so on, and so forth.
As i am sure you accept, we trade less sensor performance for smaller lenses. Sony buyers have to accept they bought for sensor performance and they will get bigger lenses. While the 50mm f1.8 is a nice lens, it is bigger than the 45mm f1.8 and is a 75mm equivalient while the olympus is a 90mm equivalent ( a nicer portrait length). If Sony had made a 60mm f1.8 it would have been that much larger.
Ab
Very true, but m4/3’s users often overlook DOF when comparing lenses. I know not everyone views shallow DOF as a bonus, but I think it’s safe to say most photographers do. So from that point of view Sony would simply have to make a 135mm f/4 (or f/3.5 depending on who you ask) to equal the look we’d get from a 100mm f/2.8. I think both lenses should be very close in size. Just look at the size of the old Olympus 14-35mm f/2 vs the Pentax 16-50mm f/2.8. If I recall the Olympus 14-35mm was actually larger than the Pentax equivalent…and the Pentax actually had a bit more zoom range.
I don’t think we’ll see any truly noticeable size advantage happening until we get well into the super telephoto ranges. I imagine a m4/3’s 300mm f/4 would most likely be smaller than a 400mm f/5.6 NEX lens. However under 150mm eqv I don’t think the difference is worth worrying about.
For now m4/3’s is certainly the best mirrorless system due to it’s diverse lens line up. However, I will reevaluate that position in a few years after Sony, Fuji, and Samsung have all had time to work on their lens lineups.
DOF is not talked about because it’s mostly a non-issue. Shallow DOF is a bonus mainly in portrait photography. Landscapes and macros benefit from MFT’s deep DOF. For portraits there are specialty lenses available at around f/1.0 and 50mm.
“Sony would simply have to make a 135mm f/4 (or f/3.5 depending on who you ask) to equal the look we’d get from a 100mm f/2.8.”
You don’t need to ask anybody. Get a calculator, type in the sensor size numbers, and you’ll find yourself that the Sony DX sensor is about 65% larger than the m43 sensor, not 100%. So its advantage is just 2/3 of a stop.
The NEX system would need roughly a 130mm f3.5 lens to give results similar to a 100mm f2.8 lens on m43.
You should send photozone.de that memo. They put 35mm DOF equivalents on their lens reviews. On the Olympus 12mm f/2.0 review they clearly list the full frame DOF equivalent as f/4. On the Samsung 30mm f/2.0 review they say the full frame DOF equivilent is f/2.8. To me that implies a one stop difference between APS-C and m4/3’s. Of course they could just be rounding off for the sake of simplicity.
I’ve seen some people such as yourself swear there is only 2/3’s stop difference while others swear there is a full stop. All I know is that there is a clear difference in the two, so when comparing lenses IMO that should be taken into account.
Hey Eric,
While you are correct that Sony could opt for slower lenses that would upset their userbase tremendously.
Imagine with their larger sensor and all the benefits that come with it, negated in an attempt to keep lens size competitive.
The testament to this was the 30mm macro, there were some unhappy bunnies with the F3.5 spec… And in that particular case it was a short FL, with a slower aperture and i believe it was still bigger than the Panasonic lens. While it may have been lighter, one gave up a great deal to achieve the lightness.
Maybe Sony lacks the experience of leica (working with Panasonic) or Olympus, but it took those companies a long time to get where they are today. I believe, that despite Sony’s promise, we will not see small lenses that maximize the sensor. We will probably see larger lenses with the performance and smaller lenses that lack it (which will be the only ones competitive on size).
Ab
1 stop longer dof than 35 mm would have a crop factor of square root of 2. or approximately 1.4. aps crop is somewhere between 1.5 and 1.6 depending on manufacturer and even model. there’s not a full stop difference between APS and 4/3.
Not happening. And against the new Fuji X1 sensor? Nope, be real 🙂
Sorry.
Great! It will have the current Panny 16MP sensor, which is perfectly respectable for its pixel density. I know people here will still be whinging that it doesn’t have 20 stops of DR and a clean ISO 1,000,000, but I think the combination of this sensor with Oly’s start of the art processing will do a good enough job for just about any real world photographer (as opposed to photography forum measurebators).
+1
Oly seems to be able to get more out of a sensor than Panny. The IQ will likely be better than the G3, and maybe better than the GH2.
If you need better IQ, then get the no-lens NEX system, or the much larger, much more expensive and slow-AF upcoming Fuji system. Evereything in life has tradeoffs, why are we surprised that there is no “perfect” camera?
Of course, the no-lens NEX system is smaller than the Fuji system. But how do you take pictures with no lens on the NEX camera?? (Hint: as soon as you attach a lens on the NEX camera, it is not so small any more…)
Need NEX lenses? You go here:
http://cameraquest.com/
Or here:
http://www.rainbowimaging.biz/shop/category.php?id_category=4
We don’t know how big this new Olympus will be. I’m confident it will be smaller but don’t know if it will be much smaller. Also, we don’t know how fast the Fuji will focus. The one video on YouTube- the guy didn’t know what he was doing so it’s really unfair to say it’s slow focusing based on that. We need to wait till it’s released. As far as price, I do hope the Fuji is far more expensive than the Olympus- but I have a feeling the Olympus is going to cost a pretty penny (in the $1,500+ range).
I agree the new Oly price will not be low, and if the E5 is any indication, it will be more than I’m willing to pay, but on the Fuji focus — I believe (and it’s just a gut feel) that Fuji would be making a stink about the AF if it was truly great. They aren’t, so my guess is it’s a bit better than the X100, but that the Oly 3rd gen (EP3, EPL3, EPM1) will still be faster. Just a guess, but we’ll have to wait and see.
WT21, I think you could be right about the Fuji. I certainly won’t be surprised if it’s slower. But I have a hard time believing it will be as bad as the X100. But it could be.
How small?
Think EP3 with a GH2 style centrally located HUMP.
Then add 10% on all sides for weather sealing, retro styling and whatnot.
How’s that for speculation? 😉
I WISH — I hope they stay in the footprint of the original OM, and not go E5 sized.
Most likely, it’s the DMC-GX1 sensor, which delivers analogue output. (While the GH2 sensor delivers digital output with on board A/D conversion). So adding Olympus A/D conversion and image processing, expect the output to be better than from the G3 and GX1. Understandable, since it will be leveraging on both these cameras.
But in the future, I expect we all would like to see a fully digital output sensor with column-parallel A/D conversion technique à la Sony or implemented like in the curreent Panasonic GH-series.
Thank you for bringing sanity to the discussion! I’m perfectly happy with 16MP, and the Panny version looks good. There’s more to a camera system than sensor – but it’s about time Oly updates it to keep up with the competition.
So we can expect this “new” (essentially that sensor is probably as old as the GH2) sensor to be in any new Olympus cameras of the next two years. Is Olympus merely recycling Panasonic’s scrap when Panasonic moves on to something better?
I really hope Olympus gets it right and
* makes the feel of the OM-D body as solid as the E-5, including the button and dial haptics
* introduces a viewfinder that is bright, BIG and 100% field of view
* introduces manual focus peaking / focus confirmation for manual focus glass
* has buttons and dial laid out correctly so that operation of the cameras does not require to make any menu choices ever, but allows to jump in all relevant settings with one click of the buttons/dials (just like with the E-5 which has awesome usability)
* introduces the same kind of custom settings presets that can be saved to modes like on the E-5
* introduces usable ISO 3200 RAW images – anybody claiming that the E-PL1 had usable images at ISO 1600 is wrong, I expect better quality than that from the new camera at ISO 3200
Also, since the new camera will be sealed, I thin it’s time for Olympus to create a set of fast, sealed prime lenses. A sealed 20mm f/1.4 or a sealed 25mm f/1.4 or faster would be nice.
If Olympus fails to execute on that vision, I will probably save money for the XPro1 and keep my existing MFT stuff till then.
I like your vision, but you best start saving for the XPro. There is nothing in Olys history to indicate they are capable of the revolution you have outlined. Ad, yes, Oly is cycling Panny sensors. Panny is the only producer of m43 sensors.
I think, though you may find the AF speed, quirkiness and bulk of the XPro to be a differeent experience than current m43. If you are still only using an EPL1, then you are missing the benefits of the current Oly. You are using a two year old body, and thats not a fair comparison to any new camera system.
i think that is was gets people so worked up. They are completely capable! However, they are just too chickensht to do it!
You have to commend Fuji for making a strong initial investment in their new system.
Most of that laundry list is things that Olympus has already done. ISO3200 may be a stretch, but 1600 ought to be there.
Looking back at the list, maybe you are right.
The most revolutionary thing on the list is the 100% bright VF, and that’s what Oly is claiming. Maybe this is do-able. Especially if a it’s a brand-new body type. They never seem to make this many changes in iteration (i.e. EP1 to EP2 to EP3), but they do launch entirely new bodies (i.e. EP1 after e620), so perhaps this will be the body that is launched.
It won’t be for me, though, as I’m not looking for a large (and the E5 body is very large) body for $1,500 with the Panny 16MP sensor inside. For me, weather sealing and better VF isn’t enough to justify $1500. If it’s $999 list, then I might consider it. I realize others value WS higher than I do, so maybe it will be the camera that certain folks have been waiting for. We shall see.
If you expect them to cannibalize the E-P3 sales you are mistaken and need to get your Fuji or whatever else melts your butter. The E-P3 sells for $899 expect this body only to be in the $1099-1199 and (if there is one) Kitted for $200-300 more.
They’ll sell a ton at $1500. As any as the E5, most likely.
(/sarcasm)
There is nothing too revolutionary in what he described. He’s basically asking for a smaller E5. That is what I expect to Oly to produce- albeit with a few improvements.
> There is nothing in Olys history to indicate they are capable of the revolution you have outlined.
?! Tobias mostly refers to the Olympus E-5 with some technology thrown in that is pretty standard on Nex and many APC-C cameras now on the market.
Then he asks for weather sealed lenses, an Olympus specialty.
So what indications are you missing, exactly?
See my earlier reply just two posts up from your reply. The limits of threaded discussions.
Full frame damnit!
Really?
To quote Olympus exec: “Full of what?”
Wow, love these rumors. Plenty of exciting Oly and Pany stuff coming just over the horizon! Keep ’em coming, admin!
Let the whining (whinging) begin, as usual!
Let me be the first.
Oly still doesn’t want to diversify sensor suppliers.
Even Nikon now has two suppliers (Sony and Aptina).
Sony supplies sensors for Oly P&S.
How about they tried but couldn’t? You really imagine them sitting behind their desks going “We have to always use Panny sensors! We have to always use Panny sensors! We have to always use Panny sensors!”?
However, it’s a good whine – full marks on originality! 😀
So true on first paragraph, and so lol on second 🙂
> You really imagine them sitting behind their desks going […]
It’s a well known fact (ok: ft5 rumor) that Oly buys the sensors from Panasonic at a price far below market.
They simply do not want to get off the Panasonic’s sensors, because in the eyes of their MBA, the savings on the sensor is a pure profit.
You missed the boat. No one else makes the 4/3 sensors except Panasonic. The sensor design and fabrication requires billions of dollars of investment. Oly doesn’t have a choice right now, unless they decide to sink billions of dollars in sensor research (and even then they might end up with a worse a sensor than Panas).
Excellent. As usual, Olympus will extract a bit more from sensor than Panasonic, so I expect good jpegs at ISO 1600. Enough for me. If only the LCD was movable and the size was around NEX-7…
As I mostly shoot raw, the jpg IQ doesn´t count for me.
LCD like on the E-3/5/620 would be great, even better: a really good EVF!
But I will never dream of a size like the NEX-7 or 5. Why such small bodies, if in the case of the NEX the lenses will be bigger than comparable m43-lenses??
All you get is a little smaller package to carry around, but every time you are working with this body, it´s not comfortable, not sure to handle and so on…
Admin, how about the 16mp samsung sensor rumor?
http://www.43rumors.com/ft4-hot-samsung-offers-a-16-megapixel-sensor-to-olympus/
@frosti7
sounds possible!
+1
Good find!
+1
Good find!
Good find! That certainly sounds plausible. Olympus buys screens from Samsung, so why not?
Don’t forget http://www.43rumors.com/samsung-wants-to-partner-with-olympus/
That’s only because they want the medical technology etc..
Would be great. Technology advances and choice is always good.
Anybody thinking the OM-? will be FF is off his/her knockers.
“tweaked” implies the sensor is already in a production camera.
OMG, OMD…you found it better than the admin…lol…congrats…
Thanks for the rumours! =)
…and here Olympus falls down again — maybe. Great, we get an EVF but if the sensor is not any better or does not overcome the issues we have seen with the GH2 sensor, they have once again done half the job. They cannot, for the life of me seem to create a complete camera. I am hoping I am wrong but it is sounding like we are going down the path of a parts bin camera again with some good parts and some Ok parts and the one star feature that is suppose to overcome the other parts that are lacking but not a solid complete system.
We will see in 3 weeks what “tweaked for Olympus” means
Last time, when they made the ep-3, “tweaked” meant “same old sensor but with some beefed up image processors”.
Tweaked is the same by OM-D so E-P3, fast fockus.
Watch you language, missy! 😛
Olympus use IR light to sensor for give high speed auto focus on E-P3 camera, i think the also Olympus do the on OM-D.
If it’s better than the GH2, it’s good enough for me.
I think we’ll get what many will consider a serious competitor for the NEX7 and the Fuji XPro1. And I have a lot of glass waiting for it. Oh yes.
Finally, IBIS + state-of-the-art EVF + Olympus colors + good iso 1600. Leight-weight, great design echoing earlier Olympus glory.
It’s what I live for 😉
What are the issues with the GH2 sensor?
Bye bye FF with 4/3 working in crop mode 🙁
Let’s hope it will sports the GH2 sensor, that would be good.
Why do everybody assume it’s the GH2 sensor and not the G3 one? Isn’t the GH2 18 MP (in total) by the way?
The multi aspect ratio sensor is actually pretty awesome. I was already extremely disappointed that Panasonic didn’t put that in the GX1.
Olympus will probably not feature the multi aspect ratio sensor as I imagine their image stabilization in the body is going to be pretty complicated with such a sensor. Maybe I’m wrong which in this case would be a good thing.
It really does not matter if this is the sensor of the Gh2 or G3 . ALL panasonic sensors are wayyyy inferior to the sony ones even including the size difference
Olympus won t make any significant waves in sell until they get a NON panasonic sensor
Harold
What were you dreaming of really? A new line of lenses… Yeah right…
M43 needs to be better at three things only:
Dynamic range.
Dynamic range.
Dynamic range.
Quit the overhyped high ISO-talk, and get serious about low-iso quality.
Funny why they dont make a DR-competive 12mp instead of a so so 16-megapixel.
If this is the Panny-16mp – the Olympus is not interesting.
I agree here. I would much rather the performance an the 100-800 range be improved rather than see 12800 be available so that the marketing people can plaster it all over ads even though it’s completely useless in the real world.
+1! Better DR cleaner low ISO, and even ISO100! That’s what I’d most like to see. Stellar ISO 100-800, but I’m not holding my breath, lol.
+1!
I’d rather have higher dynamic range, than more megapixel!
+1
When taking in dim light you have the options of using a fast lens or at least playing with the noise reduction if you shoot RAW. For static subjects you can use a tripod or other support. If you do not need to be discrete a bounced flash can work OK too.
But there is no substitute for dynamic range. All the HDR programs I have tried never give results that are as good as what I get when I use my SLR which has more DR. And HDR does not work with anything except static subjects.
+1
To be honest I was really hoping for that. Something like: “We already told you people 12mp was enough, so here’s 2 stops of DR for you. Btw, the noise levels at iso 800 set a new industry standard.” Shame.
Exactly right. What we need is DR improvement and better low ISO performance.
+1 thank you for fighting the good fight!
+1. I agree. The DR performance of Pannys 16-megapixel sensor is just not good enough and specially the highlights clip is too steep (just like the GH1 sensor).
I can’t say whether Olympus can “tweak” DR on a Panny sensor but I doubt it.
I need an oversized sensor (like on the GH1) anyway because I shoot 3:2 for my work.
Not so good news for me, though it was to be expected.
If asked, I should have preferred any little increase of dynamic range over so many mor pixels. Should have preferred decent ISO 640 over more pixels.
But they do not ask customers. They ask marketing strategists.
More pixels is not mutually exclusive of better dynamic range or noise. In fact, with the Panny chip, I believe it has better dynamic range and I know it has better signal to noise for cleaner ISO.
> More pixels is not mutually exclusive of better dynamic range or noise.
It’s law of physics: Smaller photosite/pixel gathers less light!
Meaning lower real data signal causing overal decrease in SNR (= more noise) and lower dynamic range because range between signal discernible from noise and pixel saturation gets smaller.
So only way for even retaining same performance is by improving sensor tech and as that’s something Panasonic seems to be bad at increasing Marketing Pee number is the worst possible thing.
Yes, there is the physics issue, but no one can answer if we are at an evolutionary stage where we have hit the physics limits yet. By the way Sony, Canon and Nikon are making chips, seems we are still a bit far off from the actual limits in the physics.
Oh, and more MP is not completely bad. In a decently controlled situation where I can get my image within the DR limits of the sensor, I could then have a larger image for resolution/prints/cropping. I just have to lug out my lights with me for some location portraits…
11.3 DR is still beyond the 6 or 7 you get in print.
Yet higher MP cameras invariably have improved SNR to lower MPs, or even compared to previous generation of the same sensor. MPs are not created in a vacuum, ie. there are commensurate improvements in other areas of sensor design while they decrease sensel size. I’m sure we’ll bump into a hard ceiling some day in the future – but they’ve been saying the same about HDD data densities for decades.
The matter of noice and pixel size is not that obvious!
On a sensor of same size, lets say 4/3 size 🙂 , a 12mpix sensor will have less noice at pixel level than a 24 mpix sensor. But if you resize the 24 mpix file to 12mpix you can easily have less noice!
Going to 16 meg was panny’s choice. Olympus gets what it can when it comes to sensors.
Hi Admin, is there any special support for regular 43rds lenses?
Thanks 😉
I asked. Should get an answer soon!
Thank you 🙂
I can remember that 4/3 Rumors trailed rumours of 4/3 adaptor for m4/3 of the type that Sony made for the NEX system. That was ages ago, I reckon Sony got the idea from here (my tongue is firmly in my cheek when I said that).
Probably not, but since it’s OM, there’ll full support for OM lenses ;). You’ll have to wait another ten years to be able to use 4/3 lenses again :).
Despite lot of comments, I’m not happy with this rumor…a new 12 MPx sensor with better dynamic range would have been better for me. I’m a Gh1 user, I’m happy with my 12MPx which are enough but I would like more dynamic range in lots of cases…
bye bye to my foveon dream..:(
Will this sensor decrease the effective focal length (in 35mm equivalent)of lenses used? Can a decrease from 2.0 multiplier to 1.8-1.5 be expected? My interest in the ep3 led me here and I am primarily interested in wildlife photography, so I want to understand the impact this model may have if I choose to hold out for this.
it wouldn’t be an m43 sensor if that was the case and would likely have a different lens mount
The GH2, in 16×9 aspect mode is actually a 1.8 crop ratio.
Would you please elaborate? I would guess it’s rather a dual crop factor of about 1.85x:2.45x for that aspect ratio, whilst the diagonal measure is always at the minimum of 2x and can’t go below that irrespective of sensor size and aspect ratio due to purely mechanical constraints of the mount.
Interesting, so the new Oly flagship gets the G3 sensor… does this mean that Panasonic has a new and better sensor coming in the GH3 maybe?
The OM-4 was the first with multi-spot metering (combining up to 8 readings), not with spot meter (think pentax spotmatic?)
DR (Dxomark)
Panasonic GH2: 11.3 Evs
Sony Nex-7: 13.4 Evs
The cameras has about the same size pixels, why is Panny/Oly so dramatically behind?
The thing becomes clearer and clearer for me: my future camera will not be a M43. Its gonna be Sony, Fuji or Canon.
Why is M43 the only who doesnt focus on DR?
its a smaller sensor. Sony has no lenses…that whole setup is a mess.
Eventually, when it makes financial sense to the powers that be…MFT will show up with a better sensor…but even with the lack of DR…I think it is still the best “system” right now.
Hopefully it will change soon!
One reason is Panasonic use NMOS sensor but Sony use CMOS sensor.
But fockus to Panasonic is global shutter, so i hope come in GH3.
Because Sony’s sensel has a superior design. All things being equal, the difference would be about .67 stops.
“DR (Dxomark)
Panasonic GH2: 11.3 Evs
Sony Nex-7: 13.4 Evs”
Crap numbers! I have both the cams.
Indeed! dXoMaRK is the worst thing that ever happened to the camera industry. It’s all crap numbers. Way too oversimplified and thus pretty much worthless.
Oversimplified only for those who look at one number. Dxo offers in detail analysis with much more details, just don’t be lazy and open that page with details.
No it’s definitely crap.
Well, Olympus could talk to Sony then.
Cropping the NEX-7 sensor to MFT, would give you a 15 Megapixel sensor with the NEX-7 performance, just 15 Mpix and not 24 Mpix.
Could you live with that?
All what’s needed is a sensor with digital output, such as the Sony with their column-parallel A/D conversion technique. Both Samsung and Panasonic could make one, Olympus should ask for a quotation…
This is exactly why we should just ask ourselves if m43 is good enough today, because it would be silly to think the technological differences will remain (or remain relevant for practical use).
What makes you think that they haven’t?
If the GH2 had a base ISO of 80 instead of 160, it would be doing 12.xx at base ISO. In other words, Panasonic’s on-sensor A/D conversion technology seems reasonable, but their well capacity is too low for some reason.
Or there may be other limitations on electronics side like power consumption / heat dissipation or maximum save voltage.
A GH2 with 50..100 shot battery capacity and up to 5min video before overheating wouldn’t sell. But lower ISO is only a limit to very few.
Great: according to this rumour, with Panny not being mentioned as sensor supplier, there’s still hope that the new camera will represent the end of the exclusive sensor deal with Panny and features a new FT sensor provided by somebody else.
Come on, Sony, Canon, Fuji, Aptina etc, there’s money to make with an FT sensor.
Hmmm… if Aptina took the Nikon 1 sensor and added pixels until they had a 4/3 sized sensor. How many MP would that be and what would the image quality be? The Nikon 1 is not bad on a per-pixel level. It just has too few.
For its size, you probably wouldnt want more than 12 anyway
Olympus with a PD-AF enabled Aptina sensor using the same pixel pitch (3.40µm) as in Nikon CX, would result in 19.5 Megapixels for a MFT sensor.
What about Canon’s new big-sensor compact camera. It’s sensor is only slightly bigger than FT and the additional space could be used for the IBIS, couldn’t it?
I want Kodak. Just as the E-500, just as my 14nx, just as the Leica M9. Kodak gives stunning colors (they should, of course).
Moreover, it has similar qualities to Olympus: it steers nasty whiners to Canon, Nikon and Sony.
I always buy Panasonic…Olympus takes hand-me-downs from Panasonic…puts in retro body, years later… (yawn)..and people buy?
Why not buy from the source?
This is just silliness.
Oly does make some kick-ass lenses though!!!! 🙂
Because Olympus give beautiful JPGs out of the box and has IBS. I’ve owned 6 Olympus bodies and 4 Panasonic bodies in the last few years. I like what Panasonic does, but Olympus images look better. And when I use fast primes (including adapted vinatge lenses) in low light, IBS makes a measurable difference in keepers.
My last side by side comparison was a G2 and an EPL1. Got them at the same time to test m43. On paper the G2 was way better. In practice I loved the results from the EPL1. I’ve now upgraded to an EP3. Love it.
It’s not all about statistics and specs.
I shoot raw and make my images look the way I want in PP. It is never right out of ANY camera for me. That goes for my FF DSLR as well.
I shoot RAW when Im getting paid. I shoot JPG the rest of the time. I do very little paid work.
Also, as someone else said somewhere. When it comes to photography I’d rather be a hunter than a cook.
I’m not an Oly fanboy. I’ve had both at the same time. Still prefer Olympus bodies. I have lenses from both.
I like the system, not a brand or specs. My preference is Oly bodies for the above mentioned reasons. I’m glad you prefer Panasonic.
yeah…funny how are preferences go….I just am hoping we get more dynamic range soon! With all of the building competition ….there has to be some breakthru with the MFT sensor…or it just won’t compete…for me it is the only thing lacking here..resolution is great for such a small system.
Amen. I keep wondering what ever happened to the sensor that was in the GH1. Seems to have been the best in the DR and ISO departments and it was only used on one model! Bring that back and “tweak” it!
Also I’m sure if Oly (or Panny) get bids for a sensors from Sony, Samsung, Aptina, etc. they might get some options. Plenty of manufactures go to rivals for components. (Like in the auto industry)
Well…talking about that…I betcha that Canon has something up their sleeve with the sensor in the new G1X? They can’t have brought a whole new sensor to the table just for a G11 update…I am thinking that they could use the in an ILMC. They have to jump in at some point. I wonder if that sensor is produced in-house or purchased from someone else.
That sensor could be IMPRESSIVE with some good glass in front of it!
Exactly. Spot on. (I also have both Olympus and Panasonic, the latter primarily for video.)
Best thing: where the two differ now (video quality vs jpeg color, for instance), they will differ less and less in the future. Until new specialty positions are taken, of course – which is beautiful.
looking fourward for the gh3 rumor.. I think the gh3 will have an edge against this OM-D camera
yeah i don’t care about the OM-D either. Waiting for the GH3 news. This news basically confirms to me that oly is making a retro gh2, and i much prefer sci-fi.
So, any comments on the video quality? One reason I’ll have trouble ditching the D7000 is that it is an awesome video camera for my needs (big sensor, fully manual controls).
If video quality is what you care most about, the GH2 (with hack) is still pretty much overall top-of-the-heap. Especially in terms of down-sampling and lack of moire or aliasing artifacts, Panasonic puts a lot of others to shame.
GH2 is amazing, but Oly has IBIS, and somekind of GH2+IBIS would be orgasmic for filmmakers 😀
The Oly IBIS sucks for video. If it wasn’t a “computed” IBIS, and a true one, it might be fine. I find it better to run the video without IBIS and run it through Deshaker in post.
Argh! Didn’t know that!
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusepl3/page10.asp#digitalis
Man, that fake-IBIS sucks! 🙁
Then, I’ll keep my great and hacked GH1
Ahaa the is reason for Panasonic have OIS in lens.
Absolutely. And it is one of the really cool things about micro four thirds. Having both IBIS and OIS available in lenses, means we can buy a Panasonic OIS lens for video on an Olympus body. No other format offers both choices, that I know of.
Well, it is something I have considered. I already had a D7000 when I added the E-PM1, so I was sticking to just the D7000 for video/stills and E-PM1 for stills only. But, I am wondering about ditching the Nikon and going to one system only, so if I do, I need an alternative to it for video (E-PM1 is nowhere near). The GH2 is definitely a contender.
That said, I’m just not sure if I want to get rid of the APS-C and larger sensors from the Nikons…
🙂
Good !
It could be the nex7 24mp sensor cropped to a 43 16mp sensor. 😉
Wait&see
lol
What worries me most is that 1 year after the G3 finally Oly is now coming with a camera that w.r.t. functionality and sensor will rival the G3 only.
Notice the evolutions in the past 12 months:
Panasonic: GH2 -> G3
Sony: NEX5 -> NEX5n/7
Which was the improvement and which was a step back? Especially in terms of sensor DR? NEX is now WORLDS ahead of MFT. And now Olympus is going to use the same sensor as that of the G3? That’s depressing.
If it were the NEX sensor cropped to 16 MP I’d be a lot happier!
So, this will be a replacement for the E-5? but a m4/3rds camera, right?
I hope the OM-D will use the current BLM-5 battery which has 1620mAh energy capacity, as opposed to the smaller BLS-5 used in the PEN cameras.
Id like to see a 2500 mAh battery. Samsung put one in the galaxy note, so im sure one could fit in the OM-D
I am afraid it will not. Do to some new Japanese safety requirements, that it needs to meet. Of course maybe it already meets them. Then how about two.
I think the one thing that a lot of people would appreciate more and might make this camera a hot seller is for Oly to provide a way for hacking and modding the firmware (or just adding app support) for this camera.
I’m not sure how popular the GH2 is due to the hackability of the firmware, but from what I’ve read, it seems to be one of the strong point of that camera, which many people desires.
People don’t care about hackability in itself with the GH2. They care that the higher bit rate really shows that the GH2 sensor itself delivers top-notch video quality.
Thats not entirely true – the hack is also valued for bypassing Pany-imposed restrictions like NTSC/PAL switching, and the 30-min recording limit for PAL cameras. And for entirely new features such as timelapse MJPEG.
That’s not entirely true – the hack is also valued for bypassing Pany-imposed restrictions like NTSC/PAL switching, and the 30-min recording limit for PAL cameras. And for entirely new features such as timelapse MJPEG.
The G3/GX1 sensor sounds great to me. Combine this with a state-of-the-art viewfinder and I might finally add a m43 to my current 4/3 set-up. I’m definitely in wait-and-see mode, though; I’m not going to be pre-ordering anything.
I hope it will be the GH2 sensor instead of G3. Multi Format is great!
Not likely, as Panasonic stated in an interview that they’d like to hold onto some things for themselves (when asked about that sensor).
I can’t believe nobody asked yet…!
Who dares to guess the price…?
My guess
$1150 body
$1350 17mm kit
Maybe it comes out with a sast sealed 24mm lens as kit… :! That would be cool! 🙂
Oh, and PLEASE make silver and black versions immediately Olympus. Don’t make us choose and don’t give people another reason to whine. 🙂
Sadly, I’m going with E5 type pricing: $1,500, which I think will be too much.
How about the EP3’s, tilty capacitive touch screen 🙂
Damn it! And here was me just about to get a GH2. Mind you I still can, but now I have to also wait to see what Olympus has got up it’s sleeves. I’ve still got an old OM1 I’ve kept for sentimental reasons, although I haven’t shot a roll of film for years. Still if this has got a 16mp sensor it’s progress on that front. Although you suspect it won’t be the GH sensor that Panasonic keeps for themselves. I do hope Olympus sorts out a better video implementation.
Plus it would be brilliant is Olympus could have worked on producing an adaptor for 4/3 lenses of the type Sony made.
(sos*) there’s nothing more to see here move on…..
*SAME OLD SENSOR
Hmm, so this 16 Mpix is the same as the 12 Mpix they are using now? Interesting conclution.
I smell a panasonic sensor again SOS!
Of course, the whiners first cried: it’s gonna be the 3 year old 12Mpx sensor — same old sensor, Oly are loosers. Now, it is: it’s gonna be the old 16Mpx sensor — same old sensor, Oly are loosers. I say: SOW — same old whiners; why don’t you have something interesting to say?
C´mon! don´t forget you are using an optical system. the image quality of the system depends on lens+sensor+image processor (such as canon adds suggest) i know oly does´nt made it´s own sensors but oly made lenses and image processors that are great and the final image looks great too. most people gets the mega-pixel-hook without understanding what happens when an image is being taken.
Be honest to you next time you look for a camera: how many pixels do you need? i dare you don´t even know.
the more important claim i found consistently is dinamic range and this is a real one! more than mega-pixels, an increase in DR can really make your images have a better look and this shuld be the real goal.
you want your images to look better right? but do you want to print huge?
The Nikon D700 is still highly regarded and in demand with its 12 Mpx sensor.
@ admin: Can you ask your sources about a Tilt screen?
Yeah! they are reading the blog, I am sure they will answer you soon 🙂
please reply to the user who asked about the samsung sensor…
http://www.43rumors.com/ft4-hot-samsung-offers-a-16-megapixel-sensor-to-olympus/
Hope it has in-camera hdr!
Hope it don’t need in-camera hdr!
Nice one!
Admin: IIRC OM-4 was the first camera with MULTI spot meter.
That is correct
What would make me upgrade to an OM-D (from G3):
Better DR
(lots) Better EVF
Swivel LCD as on G3
Better manual controls
Better build (quality feel like OM-1)
More accurate exposure measurement
AF accuracy same as G3 or better
Focus peaking
Otherwise Fuji Xpro MAY be about what I need.
Much of this is desirable, but not all of it required. For me, the swivel LCD is not needed — I only turn on the LCD for taking pictures when I ask other people to take pictures with the e-p3; a swivel LCD that makes the camera bulkier or more fragile is a turn-off to me. I’d also like to see better battery life than the e-p3, faster continuous mode (at least 6 fps) and continuous tracking.
The coming X-Pro 1 lenses (from Amateur Photographer): “Hiroshi Kawahara, who heads up Fuji’s Product Planning operations, said photographers can expect to see a 28mm f/2.8; 23mm f/2; 70-200mm f/4 and 12-24mm f/4 – though details have yet to be confirmed. “.
* 70-200 f/4?? FF equivalent, or real focus length? Aperture somewhat disappointing?
I was looking to buy something to compliment my E-3. I was going to get a EP3, but I may wait and see how this one turns out.
Suppose they changed one of the green sensels in the Bayer array to panchromatic. Wouldn’t that increase dynamic range? They would still have a R+G+B sensel for deternining chrominance but could use the panchromatic sensel for luminance in the low light areas. In highlight areas the panchromatic sensel would clip but the RGB sensels would be used for determining luminance, as on normal Bayer sensors.
Oh no…. another non OVF camera! We photographers want OVF and not EVF…
There are hundreds of cameras with OVF available in the market. You can buy any of them if you like 🙂
Keep your dark little peep hole. Full-time live-view and constant preview are fantastic tools to work with!
If this is built on GH2 sensor technology, that will be some progress. Build on the G3/GX1 sensor it will be better than nothing but still a bit “not good enough” to “ok.” The DR on that sensor is unchanged. ISO performance is a little improved. And of course combined with a weak AA, 16 MP can go a long way.
Depending on the price, still not the leap in sensor tech I think we need. But again, better than nothing.
This could be the camera i waited for when i didn’t buy EP-3 or G3.
JPEG performance better than G3 and filming like (or close to) GH2 would sound perfect to me!
It’s almost surely the 16mp sensor from the G3. That sensor fits in the current IBIS system and the sensor is readily available. The GH2 sensor is unlikely, since it is larger, and would not be suitable for use with the E7. The way I am thinking is that this is the easiest, lowest cost way for Oly to develop one sensor that they can deploy in several cameras (OMD, EP5, E7, subsequent EPL and EPM line.)
You’re probably right, but if they modified their IBIS for a sligtly larger sensor then they’d get access to the newest Panasonic sensor in stead of having to wait for Panasonic to use their newest technology in lower end sensors, and using a smaller sensor in a IBIS-system designed for the GH2-sensor shouldn’t be a problem (except for the slightly bigger space needed in the camera). And they could support muliformat too as an addtional bonus.
crap evf so slow and so crap… so much better a canon f1 to every evf camera
I, for one, and really getting tired of this little trick of yours of put a camera that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with your article at the top of your page. Real amateur journalism – grow up!
No Trick! The intention is just to show some OM history cameras. The new camera will be a new chapter of that history so in my opinion it has ABSOLUTELY TO DO something with the article. Beside that, I am an amateur journalist. Please follow serious webesites like dpreview or photographyblog if you want top journalism!
I grew up in the ‘digital age’ and appreciate the pictures that Admin posts. The pictures are very interesting to me and are likely very informative when trying to imagine what the new OM might look like.
I really like when the Administrator puts up pictures of single digit OMs. Administrator, you also have my permission to put up pictures of OMs that had a single letter. 🙂
You also can put put up ones that had a letters OM-F, OM-G and PC. 🙂 They had great builds for entry level SLRs, I think they were based on the OM-4 body.
You may not put up the 3 digit or 4 digit ones. They are an abomination. 🙁
Taking good pictures and enjoying photograph is a state of mine, so pictures or cameras that bring pleasant emotions are great.
Also note, that many top tier financial newspapers, online and magazines have had pictures of OM cameras recently. So I putting pictures of them is done by professionals.
@Sanford
What’s the trick? Were you fooled into thinking that it was a photo of the new OM-D?
The model number on the photo and the description seem pretty clear to me. I’m sure that as a member of the journalism-police you are able to read, right? (although I think you meant “am” instead of “and” and “putting” instead of just “put”) Who do you think the admin is trying to “trick”?
(BTW Admin, classy reply)
You guys are a bunch of pansy whiners. The 12mp sensor Olympus currently uses, outputs better quality images to Panasonic’s 16mp sensor due to superior image processing, colors and white balance. Not to mention you have at least 3+ extra stops of low light still subject shooting with IBIS. Notice how all the whiners complain about sensor, but then you see pros who actually use Pen bodies produce excellent images with such ‘aged’ equipment. If this new OM body uses the Pany 16mp sensor, I believe Olympus will make full use of it’s capabilities.
No matter the amount of processing it won’t bring back what has been lost because of sensor lagging seriously behind competition.
Only decent sensors Panasonic has are GH1’s and GH2’s.
It should tell something when even compact sensor Canon Powershot G12 can produce more dynamic range than overhyped G3 sensor!
What do you need the DR for? Monitors can’t display it, prints can’t show it. All you can do with excessive DR is compress it back into LDR.
You will always map the input DR to the output medium’s DR. The input DR is almost always larger so the trick is to map it in a pleasing way to the output medium. On a sunny day you don’t want the shadow areas to be all black, for instance.
What yuo describe isnt easy, and is in the realm of experienced photographers with post processing skills and time.
A bit more DR would be nice, but not a deal breaker. All the other bonuses, the G3 sensor, FAST AF, great colour WB and pixel sharpness, great viewfinder, weather sealing…
I may have to sell off my other m43rds cams to get this one… But a built in flash and the wireless control are needed.
Ab
It’s not whining and only in your dreams the Olympus outputs better than the gh2. Jped only sure. Not from raw.
This is called making a competitive product. This camera won’t be cheap I don’t know about you but I don’t like spending over $1k USD for similar performance of 3 years ago particularly with other options around. What’s wrong in putting a true better sensor?
Hi folks,
Great news for Older folks like us. It has always been a joy to use those solidly built ”OM ” single digit series of cameras.
I have a hunch it will be this :
http://www.1001noisycameras.com/2011/11/kodak-announces-new-16mp-35mmff-and-aps-c-truesense-ccd-sensors.html
I hope it’s a Micro 4/3 Version of it along with an Oly specs…..Hope it will come true, as I love the DR and colour of the Kodak sensors.
Thanks and Regards……Uncle James.
Mods at Malaysia’s only 4/3 site :
http://www.mychiaroscuro.net
My webpage : http://www.wix.com/jjjmoh/jmoh-photography
if it’s from Kodak, they better act fast and stock up… Kodak isn’t looking too healthy right now.
Kodak sensors are no longer part of Kodak, I think.
It is whining. Olympus M43 cameras as a whole work very well. It’s only the vocal minority of tech junkies who whine about such things. The 16mp sensor from Panasonic should be just fine. BTW – The true limiting factor of all mirrorless cameras isn’t the sensor…it’s the AF system. The closest a mirrorless camera has come to DSLR like tracking performance is the Nikon V1.
Don`t know for you but why I dream of a FF Olympus OM digital body with the 16mp Kodak sensor? The one who have used OM-1,2,4 will know 😉
Admin,
Since the EVF is supposed to be the highest bit of technology, does this mean that we can kiss our hybrid ovf/evf rumors goodbye?
Also, didn’t Samsung delay the NX20 so they had time to prepare their better EVF to compete with Sony? Given the Samsung/Olympus partnership rumors, I’m guessing that the new EVF and sensor will both be outsourced from Samsung.
Can you check on that for us?
On a side note, I’m not too thrilled with Samsung as a sensor supplier. They have always lagged behind the competition which is why Pentax left them for Sony.
I hope this new EVF really is “super”.
I am checking that!
dang, i have an OM1 i still use regularly, i always forget what a big jump in technology the OM4 is… why can’t someone just make this a reality…
http://www.petapixel.com/2011/04/04/35mm-cartridge-that-transforms-film-cameras-into-digital/
we can keep using the OM film cameras which we all know and love and call it a day.
end of story.
Admin, love this site and appreciate your efforts (and hope you are making time for other things in your life). But… You know we don’t care about the number of mega pixels. We want much better DR, better low light iso performance, and better video. Whatever megapixles does that, I’m fine.
Don’t like the sound of the compromises Fuji had to make with their optical vf. Works with only 2 of their lenses (I gather). I’d rather a high quality allrounder evf. Keeps things smaller too. I’d love an electronic shutter, to reduce noise and vibration. Orientation sensor, please.
And I’d love to see a dedicated SCP button, replacing the menu button, with a slightly enhanced SCP which includes 1) shooting mode (SCP shows me what shooting mode I am in, but doesn’t allow me to change mode from within the SCP) 2) a icon added to the SCP that would open the “deeper” menu functions, and 3) I’d like the option to have the SCP settings “stick” for each shooting mode – so if I have ibis off for mode S, and on for mode P, it remembers this when I change between modes.
But mainly I think Olympus need to improve their sensor supply. Maybe they really wanted a three year old Panasonic sensor for the pen gen 3. Maybe they were stuck with it. Maybe they are happy tweaking the G3 sensor for the OM-D. Or maybe they are making the best of a bad situation, living with panasonic’s hand me downs?
For me, m43 is the best overall system. Just a pity half the cameras bodies are stuck with last gen sensors all the time. Make no sense for Panasonic. More Olympus m43 = more 20mm 1.7. Poorer Olympus sensors = more NEX 5N.
I realize some people are all about the sensor stats and that fine. Everyone is allowed to spend their money based on their preferences. For me though, photography is also an experience, the fun of using a camera is important.
I have both a 1DsIII and a 5DII, which I use professionally. But when I’m just shooting for the fun of it, I’m more likely than not to grab my GF1. It’s the least well speced of all the cameras I own (also own a GH1), but it’s by far the most fun for me to use.
I also like to print, so cropping a photo to postage stamp size then magnifying the crop ten times is just something I don’t do.
So if Oly comes up with a fun camera to use and it’s reasonably speced out, I’d take a look at it. NEX 7 is kind of boring looking to me and I certainly don’t need 24 mp to take good photos. But that’s just me.
I like this comment. Am more neophyte than pro, but find I use my GF1 90% of the time vis a vis my DSLR style camera with the bigger lenses(G1). Do I upgrade to a GH2 or to the OM-D? It will be interesting to find out.
Dude!! Writing for the 43rumors web page, you should know that there is no such thing as an MTF sensor!! THE SENSOR (AND THE SIZE) IS THE SAME AS IN 4/3!!! There are MFT cameras, yes. And MFT lenses, yes. And even MFT adapters. BUT NO MFT SENSORS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! Jeeez!!!
“I have been told that the sensor has been “tweaked” by Olympus to get a a super EVF performance.”
I sincerely hope image quality is more important than EVF performance with this sensor!
“The new electronic viewfinder is really the most advanced new technology of the camera.”
Again, IMO, image sensor quality should be the most advanced new technology of the camera. But maybe that’s just me.
Maybe some people should better learn to make better pics then always complaining about sensors, dr, etc., etc. And if they don’t like Olympus, they don’t have to buy it, and maybe they better go to a forum about the cameras they like then to write senseless comments here 🙂
“Maybe some people should better learn to make better pics then always complaining about sensors, dr, etc., etc. And if they don’t like Olympus, they don’t have to buy it, and maybe they better go to a forum about the cameras they like then to write senseless comments here”
Your statement is simply inconsiderate and mean. Many people have invested thousands of dollars/euro/yen… into 4/3 and m4/3 systems. If your are so financially well off that you can get other systems when ever you want, please realize that not everyone is.
Not everyone is a pro, and not everyone has the talents or the time to develop their photography skills. It’s not as intuitive to most people as it is to people like you. For the people like us that just want good pictures, we rely on advancing technology to get us the pictures we want. High ISO sensor, low noise, large dynamic range, etc…are actually all for non-photographers more than for professionals. A professional may never need ISO 1600 or above, but useable ISO 6400 would fix so many regular people’s shots that were ruined by motion blur..for example.
I’m not a very good photographer 😉 But I think to much people forget that photography should also be fun 🙂 If it’s not fun, then maybe it’s better to find another hobby. It’s better to have fun then to complain all the time.
If you need good high-iso, maybe for concert pics, then you should probably not buy mFT. But if you want to make really good night pics, then you need base iso and a tripod, and for that mFT is still very good, even with a “3 years old sensor”. Also for making daylight pics or pics in dark rooms, if it’s not to dark in there – then maybe you also need good high-iso, if you don’t want or it’s not allowed to use a flash.
For me, the sensor of the E-PL2 and image quality is good enough, and it’s perfect for long holiday trips. If the new cam delivers a much better image quality, I will buy it, but I can also live with my E-PL2 for a few years more.
But there are some people here always writing how bad Olympus is and which companys make much better cams, so what are they doing here? They can buy another cam from another company and be happy with it. But will they really be happy? I don’t think so, because it seems, that a lot of people never will be really happy, it doesn’t matter with which cam. Maybe they should change their way of thinking.
Panasonic sensor is not a bad sensor, but it’s a lot behind from Sony.
I like all the “rumors” I read for the past few days. Thanks for the treat, the OM-D source! More candies please.
If this new camera is m4/3, I’ll be very disappointed and go donate all my gear savings to a charity.
Haha, stop dreaming people, the E-P3 is already extremly overpriced.. this one will OUTRAGEOUSLY OVERPRICED!
So please.. just forget it.
There’s a fine line between complaining and expression hopes for future improvements. Most of us are here because we love m43, so I think it’s fair to assume it’s not complaining so much, as expressing hopes for the next generation of Olympus cameras.
Really, if you don’t like reading about people’s wishlists, why read the comments section here. It’s a speculative rumor site after all.
Most of us are here because we love m43.Agree with Nic
The line between whining and interesting comments is not that thin. Critical comments are often the most interesting, and whishlists are often interesting. But categorically negative statements and totally uninformed and completely unrealistic whishes are hardly so.
I shot OM system cameras and lenses for nearly 30 years, and if they can create a camera as well-designed as the OM line cameras were, then I’ll cancel my NEX-7 order and buy one. At least, that’s my emotional response.
But, realistically, I need it to shoot 1080 video, and the Sony’s 60p is really a dramatic difference separating it from the others. And I will use the 24MP files to their advantage. But, Sony is dragging their feet developing lenses, and while I’ve already ordered the Zeiss 24/1.8, how long will I have to wait for more Zeiss glass? The adapter for alpha lenses is a non-started for me, it’s huge and ungainly. And, Zuiko glass is excellent (up there with Zeiss or Leica), and if it’s a m43 system, then there’s already a good selection of lenses. But…
It’s but, but, but. Will no one come to the rescue and put together the complete package?
If there is something like a big optical Vf and IQ tops E5 output and mounts (and works with) 43 lenses flawlessly i am in.
There are some good point above. My main question is: can Oly cameras be used not only as hobby toys, or can they be used as well as tools.
In some aspects, the Phoblographer discovered that the Pens were good PJ tools, and could even be used for Fashion (in the street).
You didn’t notice enough I think that since the E-P3 prices have been seriously increasing, and the X Pro 1 confirms it. So what are we going to do with these cameras? Leave them to the more affluent holiday makers or use them to make some money too?
The question is legit because people make comparison with the 5D II and the Nikon 700 and we are getting near FF results. So is the price justified? One simply would have a lighter system.
So are we just flirting with the ‘Pro’ tag, or are we really seeing a new gen of tools? There’s some blurriness yet, especially in the Fuji case, but sooner or later the question must be asked, if they want from us such loads of money.
On FF and DOF: I recently took a picture of a friend (“portrait”; but I’m total amateur) using my 45/1.8 at 1.8. The eyes are in perfect focus. The nose and ears are out of focus, and she does *not* have a big nose. My conclusion: the DOF in m43 allows more than enough control for my use; for portraits one should probably not use the 45mm at full opening. If a more shallow DOF is required, plenty of options exist — what about the fitted Rodenstock f/0.75 lens?
+1. For portraits that lens should be stopped down a bit.
I think the balance of DOF is about right with m43. If anything the sensor is a bit too large as I sometimes struggle to get everything in focus on handheld landscape shots.
I dislike it when FF photographers use extreme DOF on portraits so that only one eye is in focus and the rest is all blurry: it drags the attention away from the photo and towards the marksmanship of the photographer. I know some people like the ‘dreamy’ look but it seems egotistical to me.
I dislike it when environmental portraits feature a person or a couple with the background blurred to oblivion. It seems pretty solipsistic.
And it makes me shudder when I hear classic FF sayings like ‘F/8 and be there’, especially when they were limited to relatively low ISOs by modern standards. Being able to get the same look at f/4 seems very much preferable to me.
Ah well, just my preferences…
Admin – the OM2sp had a built in spot meter before the OM4. I have both.I really love the spotmeter and would be very pleased if a similar implementation is added to the 4/3 camera line.
Regards,
Alan
Alan,
The OM 4 came out about a year before the OM2sp.
Did he say camera or SLR? What about the Olympus 35 SP rangefinder? That came out in 1969.
Maybe Olympus could use the new Canon 1.5″ sensor. 🙂
Well, it´s fun to look at the complaints here (really!)
i have used sony´s NEX 3, 5 and c3 with 18-55mm kitlens and have used Pen E-P1 with 14-42mm kitlens.
it´s true, sony´s bigger more megapixel sensor looks less noisy but when you look at the detail of the image, spetially on the frame (not so edgy) edges you realize how poor are these cheap optics compared to m43. and the other real photographic functions, the complete manual control is absolutely different. oly lets you work your images regardless of the lens you use or the flash you use. for sony all your true photographic experience is hidden on the menus or automated.
for me, the camera as a tool is valued for its utility. i like to work mi images and i love great image quality even for the cheap lenses.
for me the olys are beautiful cameras on the look and on the work. i expect the same for the OM-D.
i also don´t expect a high end professional unaffordable digital camera (like D4 or 1DX)but a high capability good quality affordable camera for the enthusiasts.
If only EVF the change in this new camera and with 16MP. That is close to the end game. Lacking of “innovative” not only cannot draw more customer taste/grow customer to you but in contrast, endanger your future business impact when consumer leaving from you. It seem that Panasonic and Olympus are following the path of Nokia based on the camera released recently of GX1, Ep3 and soon OMD which is far behind from its rivals.
Gonna to praise Fuji (Fuji Apple fruite? lol..) successfully created segment in mirrorless in classic-tiny-high perform camera again of their XPro1 even thought I do not really like the price $1699. Absolute nce lenses line up. But I know Fuji still will selling well in Xpro1 since Fuji have learnt that in their X100 fixed lens digital camera ~$1200.
Oh yeah, let’s see how the Sony robot (HTC lol…?) kicking the ball nex lenses. Been heard Sony shift full force in lenses lineup in 2012. By then if this is real, will be lack of one concern to be use by someone attack on nex startup issue and let’s see how FF nex in encounter rivals move soon.
“Gonna to praise Fuji (Fuji Apple fruite? lol..) successfully created segment in mirrorless in classic-tiny-high perform camera again of their XPro1 even thought I do not really like the price $1699. Absolute nce lenses line up.”
– As you indicate yourself, Fuji could do what they did because of the price. Ask Olympus to do something similar and you are logically looking at a similar price range. Without trying to be derogatory, would you not be complaining if the OM was all you hoped for at $1699?
Have to see what OMD to deliver then? Fuji has really proven their sensor par with D700, the price for a reason 🙂
Yes, I think that it is up to both Panasonic and Olympus to step up. Canon’s new G1X might ironically be the standard by which new m4/3 sensor performance is measured. At its price the OM-D will have to measure up.
I’m just glad that there is no X in the camera’s name.
So instead of releasing an ep3 with an EVF they decide to make another m43 camera body shaped like the old om1 with an EVF? And Olympus wonders why not many people take them seriously. Oh, I’m sure they will also be releasing an om lite but without the viewfinder sometime in the future. Does anyone see where this is going? Potentially, there could be 6 Olympus m43 cameras that are essentially the SAME THING, the only difference would be missing features in some cameras. Didn’t Olympus have a om shaped digital camera before? Oh, yeah..it was called the E450.Too bad they abandoned that line as well.This is how camera makers piss off their own customers. Instead of making a camera that has the features those customers want, just release another camera with more features in another product line…start feeling sorry for ep3 users..now.
do you know what
Can someone tell me why Olympus or any other camera maker cant make a camera like the OM4Ti which was an absolute killer of a camera and just make it digital instead of film?
I personally love slr’s but all these plastic bricks with dials and flip viewfinders just leave me cold in terms of style.
I kno we are heading that way with the Pen and the fuji x10 I jst wish somone would fill that niche. Perhaps this OMD camera will pave the way
cheers all