Two sources shared new info about the posisble AF101 MFT camcorder successor
Source 1:
I had a conversation with a Panasonic Rep here in Japan.He told me in the near future there will be an upgrade of the AF 101 camera announced. Newly designed sensor will have an immense dynamic range of up to 15 stops and 4K. Sensor will be a big surprise in unexpected ways. Not shure about the price tag though.
Source 2 via Photorumors.
- 4K video
- 18MP photo
- 16+ stops of dynamic range
- Improved lowlight capabilities
- Improved skintones
- Improved highlight rendition
- Useable ISO (almost no grain) up to 12,800
- The new camera will basically have one of the best stills and videos images/color rendition/dynamic range compared to the competition
- Price tag is expected to be high – similar to the AF101: around $3k-$4k
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Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
FT3=41-60% chance the rumor is correct
FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
89 Responses
Wait even current sensor started grainy at ISO 1600, what is this witchcraft? Organic sensor is coming?
Bsi
BSI same 1″ rx100 III sensor ? although BSI on 4/3 sensor that can not provide 16ev DR ,i believe.
Yeah, BSI doesn’t give the NX1 extra DR, so there must be something else here.
It’s called wishful-fanboy-thinking-masquerading-as-a-rumour
It’s called a geometric sensor and you will see it soon.
This must be the organic sensor that they were working on with Fuji
16 stops of dynamic range would be immense
This is what RED Dragon has.
In raw though right?
Obviously, although you can also stretch it in a 10 bit V-LOG profile.
14.6 stop on DXOMARK
Yes, at pixel per pixel level, but 16+ at 2K (after resizing).
Some commenters on DPR forums have floated idea that it is a BSI sensor.
My first reaction was an oversized sensor to cover Super 35 image circle. But BSI seems more likely.
BSI had better specs than general Cmos sensor but 16ev
too high, almost produce super 35 that can’t give 16ev i think about 14ev
the way that can do it,
pump up pixel use material better much same day image sensor,
remove all filter,eliminate color filter,get full-scale (more 90% area) per 1pixel(no heat,no clip)
and last ,capture full color on 1 pixel(transform to digit data)
because bayer-filter use shared color that never get full-scale on pixel [RGBG 2 * 2]
The only way to increase DR in such a substantial fashion is to introduce a layer with logarithmic light sensitivity in front of the silicone chip.
maybe,if still include LP filter,color filter this sensor can not produce 16ev on 4/3 sensor,
It’s also possible if you’re cooking the raw files.
Or you can employ an on sensor amplifier with a log gain curve. Hmmmm
Or you could boost the flux capacitor with merithian crystals….yeah….there’s that.
I can’t wait for this sensor next year to come in GH5. 🙂
^^^ another one waiting for ‘the next thing’…….not content with the GH4 chump??
GH4 will successfully be used until GH5 arrives.:)
And then it stops working?
Killer! A pity though it’s unlikely for this technology to come to DSLM market sooner than 2016. Panasonic needs to squeeze the juice out of the pro market first. Noise performance was always the Achilles heel of m43. Now it’s changing.
If so, this is great news for both Panasonic and Fuji, as it will likely be the “organic sensor” they have been working on. For me, that is exciting, as the X-Pro 2 will likely come with it.
If it is true; then it sill silence the M43 doubters; I can’t wait for the GX8 now. If only they could get CAF autofocus to improve
Cool! I’m really glad it’s not more than 18 Mp! The dr sounds dreamy! I hope good high iso performance doesn’t mean a higher base iso…
If this is true, then the gx8 should be equipped with this.. And should be awesome. More DR is more important than more megapixels
No, it should not. Panasonic reserves best sensors only for GH series.
GX1 had worse sensor than GH2. GX7 – worse than GH3. GX8 should have sensor worse than GH4.
Besides, sensors with best DR, like one in RED Epic Dragon, don’t appear in photo cameras. Probably because heat dissipation is difficult in smaller body.
This sensor is headed for the E-M1 II, so that probably isn’t the case for this one.
remember,before released GX7 ,@admin post 18mpx but revised to 16mpx with larger photo site.may it be this sensor.
NX1 has APSC BSI sensor, and is very good but to be clean at 12,800 on M43 they will need more than just BSI
If this is true, it is likely the organic sensor that Panasonic and Fuji have been working on together for the past few years. If so, the next generation Panasonic and Fuji cameras will be groundbreaking. It makes sense, as Fuji claimed they were waiting for a breakthrough in technology to release the X-Pro 2, and it has been deferred until later this year. The dynamic range and high ISO performance will be better with the larger sensor, but it will be exceptional for m43 as well.
multi-aspect sensor is back.
THis si fine for me, have the Veydra primes, and will buy two bodies.
Kineraw Mini 4k and the Panasonic. ( nice to see, taht we come to intern 4k 10 bit
recording..and taht the next samsung Nx-2 has intern 4k recording/ option prores/ maybe
raw..) This brings fire to the market in Australia, plastic-propaganda-red-america, japan..
and yes 2 Bodies for the price of one Sony Fs-7 ( waht i suppose to buy-but fine to tell my
sonny-marketta that he will find a pleasent good way to bring me more for the mony..)
Sold my good Sony F-3… okidoki 🙂
Sounds impressive! Hope this sensor makes its way into an E-M1 Mark II soon, as well!
We need an ETC mode like the GH4 has Panny so we can use our B4 and C-mount lenses on it!!!!
It has to be the new organic sensor. No other way this can be done. Panasonic does this and this camera will be a game changer, guaranteed.
The engineering departments as camera companies measure dynamic range
differently than DXO does. Before anyone gets too excited about an m43
camera with 16+ stops of DR be sure you are not comparing pounds to
kilograms.
Yes, perhaps so, but DxO doesn’t measure usable dynamic range either. They measure the difference between the saturation point and the point where the signal-to-noise ratio is 1:1. I think most people would agree that, in practice, an image becomes unusable well before that point, so the usable dynamic range is lower than DxO’s numbers suggest.
I have found that when DXO says sensor A has 2 stops more DR than sensor B it will have 2 stops more DR in real life situations as well. I agree that usable DR is less than what they measure but am looking for a way to compare DR of different sensors and DXO works pretty well for that. I am not sure what methods are used by sensor makers but they are even more optimistic than DXO.
Honestly, if this happens this camera will represent a HUGE leap forward. A leap this great cannot be done with BSI- this has to be the new Fuji/Panasonic organic sensor. If this rumor is true, Panasonic is about to shake things up big time. 16+ stops of dynamic range and usable up to 12,800 with a small four thirds sensor? LOL! Those specs are insane. Go Panasonic Go! I wanna see this in a GH5- and soon!
If this is true than what does it say about the same sensor tech in a APS-C sized sensor….in the X-ProII. I hope there is something to this….
Usable ISO up to 12,800? Put that in a GX7 body and I’ll buy it. EM5 mk2 should have had this sensor
I would love if Panasonic would share this sensor with Olympus but don’t they tend to be pretty stingy with their best sensors? I’m worried it will be awhile before we see this in an Olympus body but would love to see it in an EP7.
Panasonic already has shared their best sensor with Olympus, namely the one from GH4 (E-M1).
Except with a (2year) contracted limit on video application.
You have actual evidence of this contract?
Conspiracy theorists don’t need evidence. The burden of proof always lies on the non-believers.
I recall they wouldn’t let Olympus have the GH2 sensor. Perhaps they’ve changed their attitude when it comes to their best sensors. I sure hope they have. This sensor in an EM2 would be amazing. But if this is true this is gonna be such a groundbreaking sensor that I wouldn’t be surprised if them and Fuji keep if for themselves for awhile. But I hope not. I much prefer Olympus cameras and lenses. The new five axis stabilization is the way to go.
make sure! olympus do not order or panny do not share,
where is about info?
It would be smart for Fuji/Panasonic to keep the new sensor tech to themselves for now since Olympus is their primary rival in the sub full frame market.
Compared to Olympus, Panasonic had been kind of on the lackluster side as of late. That puts things back into perspective, I would say..
Yeah, lackluster. Only the best hybrid video / stills camera on the market. Only the best C-AF in m43. Only IQ as good as any other m43 camera. So sad.
I was having the CP+ in mind, where Olympus stole the show. Yes, of course, the GH4…
I smell wishful thinking…
But maybe they finally implemented those color splitters that they were boasting about two years ago? That would net them 2-3 fold increase in light sensitivity, which should be enough to get useful ISO 12800. I’d guess a video camera would be the best candidate for introducing this technology, since there’s no issues with third party support for demosaicing weird RAW files. Fuji’s X-Trans is much more traditional, and still has limited support in third party software.
We get it, every new sensor does high iso like never seen before.
What about down to a native ISO100?
I really hope they do away with the HiLoMed gain and have an easy access ISO selector.
EFFING FINALLY!
I swore I wouldn’t upgrade my GX7 until they made a significant leap in IQ (mostly DR) and this is it ! On the other hand I wasn’t planning on upgrading any time soon so this is a bit unexpected budget-wise, nevertheless we won’t see a new GX until well after this videocam is released so that’s some comfort for my wallet. The best thing about this though is that this will FINALLY shut up all the trolls that come here everyday.
I’m really interested in Oly’s keystone and live composite features so I’m also hoping Oly shows some sign of progress with their own joint-venture towards new sensor tech, then again I doubt they’ll ever release something like the GX7 so maybe it’s safer to bet on Pany introducing their own Key Stone and live composite features.
HA, what are you gonna complain about now trolls !? Farewell, I hope we never have to read any of you again.
You realize you are trolling here, right? Grow up.
Please, tell me in explicit detail, how I am trolling you or the community ? Have I insulted you ? have I started a heated argument ? have I attacked the m43 system, the same system I have used exclusively for the last 4 years ?
Here’s a list of topics I touched on my post:
1.- I have a GX7
2.- The GX7 is a panasonic camera, this news relates to panasonic
3.- As a GX7 user I’m a potential buyer of the next model and whatever technology it comes with, such as the one being discussed.
4.- The timing of such events is of my utmost interest
5.- As a m4/3 user I also support Olympus and I’m interested in their exclusive features
6.- As such, this kind of technology also benefits me as a m4/3 consumer if it ever comes to Olympus too.
7.- In order to acquire those features I’m currently forced to go with an Olympus body that might not use this sensor tech or be comparable to the GX7 ergonomically. Thus I’m also open to Pany integrating such features into a GX body
8.- The problem of trolls in this site is commonly acknowledged by the community, such attack are mainly argued around the issue of sensor size and performance, this tech nullifies such arguments, thus, the problem of trolls diminishes. This is of benefit to the whole community because only then we will be able to establish reasonable debate on this site.
Is any of this a problem to you ? why ?
You want to upgrade from a rangefinder GX7 to a camcorder.
The recording codec bitrate is low, there is no internal recorded 4:2:2 and no 4K mentioned in the specs. I would sell my GH4 and upgrade to AF100A otherwise.
You are looking at the AF100 speck there. The new camera will replace it.
Remember the FT5 rumour about the GH3? Apparently it was suppose to have a ‘new high DR sensor’.
Wasn’t that a let down!
It would be nice if there was a new sensor for the next generation of stills/video cameras as well as dedicated video ones, but am not holding my breath.
S35 sensor would be nice, with 43 crop for those that use m43 lenses. The EVF position on the AF101 was bad, like a big handy cam, something more appropriate for shoulder rigs would be welcome.
Will this be a micro4/3 or a Super35 sensor? Will this be an organic sensor? Will this have global shutter tech?
Will this be an FS7/C300/1DC competitor?
The main issues the engineers were having was about heat dissipation and battery drain, which is less of a problem in a video camera body.
I don’t think it will feat IBIS, but I would had liked so, to see Panasonic delivering an IBIS tech that could turn the use of adapted lens a wonder, even more if the specs are close to the reality.
The only thing is that 18MP is an odd MP count.
I’d say little chance this is in the next E-M1. If it was they’d put the E-M1 sensor in the new E-M5ii. My guess is that this is panny trying to ck-block Olympus and sway em5ii buyers to hold out. Either way, Olympus is at the mercy of panasonic and sony when it comes to new sensors
olympus play save game,they don’t want to order new sensor from others company,
because cost too high,they wait cool image sensor from panny that price reasonable.
Olympus was the first ot use the 16MP Micro4/3 sensor made by Sony on their E-M5 – which was used after that in the GH3. Although this sensor seems to be a tweaked version from the GX7/GM1, Olympus was also the first to use this new Panasonic’s 16MP on their E-M1, which was then used by Panasonic itself on their GH4 later. So that’s not true, Olympus does seek competitive sensors and was even the first to use them.
and reason that why no next m43 sensor from Sony?
Who knows. At the time, Sony wanted to buy shares from Olympus, with all that Olympus’ scandal, maybe they did that to allure them to make the deal and sold the rest to Panasonic. There may be a new one in the future, who knows.
The sensor in Gh4 is different that the one in E-M1, the first has double the read out speed to accommodate 4K video + 30% more DR and the second in Olympus has PDAF.
The sensor is same, you can even compare the Panasonic manufcaturer codes in the sensor chip. But, that sensor is modified by Panasonic to Olympus specs. Added PDAF. Otherwise they are same, same dynamic range, same colors etc. The magic happens then in A/D conversion (processors). That is where the real difference comes and where Olympus is leading Panasonic in still photo side and still camera functions. It isn’t said for nothing that Panasonic is for video and Olympus for stills.
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GH4-versus-Olympus-OM-D-E-M1___943_909
Look at base ISO, on Gh4 it’s lower, there are several differences between the two sensors, each one with it’s strengths and weaknesses.
They may share the same manufacturer but are differently tweed, the Panasonic one is optimized for higher speed read out for example.
I don’t see why all the fuss, both Panasonic and Olympus are great tools. We should be glad that both share the same lens mount, thus more lens options.
they wouldn’t use it for m5 mark2, this is not the flagship. they might use it for the future m1 depanding on what’s going on with the gh5, let’s see. fingers cross for haveing it sooner.
The new sensor in the em1ii most definitely . But if that was in the road map they should have put their best senor in the em5ii. the em5ii sensor is going to be over 4 years old once the em1ii comes out!
Can’t wait for this tech to show up in Panasonic still cameras!
When they say almost no grain at ISO 12800, they are probably talking 4K only. I find it pretty hard to believe they could suddenly do two or three full stops better in ISO performance at 18MP. Downsample to 8MP and maybe it can be done.
And if they could, they would not bring it at once but stretch it for marketing reason. I am still open for a nice surprise…
major is brand royalist,format,if exist on M4/3 that very impressive if not many words ‘lie’,’fake’,’impossible’,
i wish new tech of image sensor make heat of market,make competitor progress new chip with better specs,but some stupid people love Sony rule on image sensor factoring.
Why? if all company use Sony sensor,no develop image sensor will become,
many patents will lost.
Why high credit(or) level to Sony,Sony that lost Walkman,Sony that lost vaio, and mini-disc ect.,They divide market product 2 section profit and no-profit,
and exit no-profit market,
one day i think probably sony silicon factory and imaging will exit
I believe the ” almost no grain at ISO 12800″ was referring to 4K video, not full size 18Mp sensor output. With better sensor, image resizing and temporal noise reduction, the rumor may come true.
wait to confirm specs,if it is a camcorder 18mpx was useless,
Still photo with AG/AF!!! no way.
Of course I’m waiting, I was just having fun speculating…
Of course it is 4K! It is easy to achieve that claim as it isn’t many stops from ISO 800 or ISO 1600 that are now good. (800 > 1600 > 3200 > 6400 > 12800).
And that is still remarkable change as often you don’t need more than 3200 ISO unless going to very ultra low situations and you want subject to be brighter than in reality.
I for example need good ISO 6400 for my work, but if ISO 12.800 is usable, even better. GH4 can be managed with good lenses until ISO 3200, but I don’t mind having something with 2 stops better.