The imaginary GF1 successor from Blog.Livedoor based on the current [shoplink 23692 ebay]Panasonic L1 (See that cam on eBay)[/shoplink] design.
I am now almost pretty sure that the new GF1 successor will be pretty soon in November/December. The “bad” news is that I just heard from a couple of sources that the camera will be available in Spring only! So like it happened for the GH2 and the Leica 25mm lens we will have to wait for a very ling time before to get our hands on the new Panasonic camera. I am not sure that is a smart “strategy”. It gives plenty of time for the competition to adjust their product specs and prices and + many potential buyers will get upset with the long waiting and delays.
The second rumor I got from one single source is that the new GF1 successor will get a “tweaked” [shoplink 16254]GH2[/shoplink] sensor. I don’t know yet what we should imagine with the word “tweaked” 🙁
One more thing: We know Panasonic is using two new names for upcoming products, the GF7 and GX1. I don’t know if the GF1 successor will be called GF7 or GX1 yet.
Reminder -> Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
FT3=41-60% chance the rumor is correct
FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
124 Responses
not that bad. GH2 has the best m43 sensor up to date. With little tweaking it could be a winner.
tweaked – like oly tweaked the 12Mpix sensor?…
“almost pretty sure…”
Not sure then. 🙂
LOL 🙂
GF7 and GX1 could be one with integrated EVF and another without?
Oversized sensors is a cool feature and it’s irritating that so far it is only on the GH serie that you find it.
+1. it is a unique feature of the format that I find great for composition. The crop views provided by the GF, G and Oly cameras are a poor substitute. When comparing 4:3 and 16:9 on a GH there is little difference with APSC cropped to the same ratios.
+10
The multi-aspect ratio sensor is a great feature. For those of us who compose photos with a camera rather than relying on editing in Photoshop, it’s a revelation.
The fact that you lose nothing when shooting 1:1 or 3:2… even gaining pixels shooting 16:9… it really encourages experimentation and makes aspect ratio another option to consider along with lens and exposure.
I do not desire a multi-aspect type sensor (GH series).
This is because the EX digital zoom M-mode 3:2 of a not multi-aspect type sensor(GF series) has the same image circle as Super16 format.（Japan web site http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ktf_turbo/26559401.html)
When you use the lens of Arriflex or C-mount, this is a very delightful fact！
Would it be possible to have an extra “low” (say 10MP) mode that boosts e.g. Dynamic Range? something like this would be very nice, and it would help to position the camera as Pana’s N1 tool for stills.
Narretz: yes, there is such a thing. It’s called “shoot the photo at full resolution then downscale it in the computer.”
FT4 …so this is pretty solid info? I was REALLY hoping for an all “new” sensor for the GF1 sucessor. 🙁
oh…and “nice call” voiceoverman! LOL.
I really hope it is true follow up… Similar size, features, built in flash, NO swivel screen, NO touch screen. Pro level but minimalist, no gimmicks.
I know it’s hard to please everyone, but I would rather buy this than a Nex-7. (Because of the lens situation.)
I hardily agree with the NO touch screen comment. …but the market being what it is …I would not be surprised if that was part of the camera.
An articulated screen is incredibly useful. It would be a mistake NOT to include one! I wouldn’t buy a camera without one AND an EVF.
I doubt that it wouldn’t include a touch screen, either. Some of the touch features are very handy, like touch focus, but at the expense of external controls. On the GH2 you can opt to use it, or not, unlike the GF series where you have no choice. I would hope that it uses GH2 mode.
I was no fan of the concept of a touch screen, but after using it a bit, it’s not the embodiment of evil that some assume. As long as I’m not forced to use it, then no harm, eh?
Mr Reee
You mean a fully articulated screen? I personally would be happy with just a tilt screen and an EVF. That might be more likely in a small package.
Come on Panasonic.
Either one. I have a GH2, but would be happy using an EPL3 or NEX screen.
In some ways, I kind of prefer the TiltyScreen™ for street shooting and some macro, because it’s more contained. Full articulation does have a lot of benefits for video or for shooting things off to the side.
As long as the screen moves, I’ll adjust and use it regardless. Fixed screen is Point & Shoot.
It’s called a “Tilty-Swively Screen” (c) Kai Wong.
My vote is for a fully-articulated >1MP screen, plus a >2MP EVF, both with false-color peaking for focus assist. Or better yet: Always-available magnify focus assist, including during video recording.
I strongly dislike fingerprints & dirt on monitors, so I prefer not to use a touchscreen.
Just my $0.02 US. Cheers.
No EVF is a deal breaker to me. I don’t care if people call me old school.
Tiltscreen, I used to abuse of it. As cool feature as it is, I probably could live without now. At least for stills.
Speaking of street shoots, I *want* a firmware update that shows a digital min-max distance scale with actual numbers that means something concrete when on manual focus (with native lenses). Right now, with my GH2, I have this stupid progression bar with no numbers. How practical…
Actually, I could use those distances when on AF too. Practical to evaluate distances and make better use of the feature on manual focus.
Tactile, manual controls. The more the better. In my world surfing thru menus takes away from the experience of taking pictures.
Does anyone agree with this???? I also don’t want the camera to be TOO small. I know I sound OLD now! 🙂
But you’re right. If it’s too small to hold it comfortably, that’s no good. IMO the miniturization of CSCs has already reached that size, they shouldn’t make cameras any smaller.
I want as many dedicated buttons and other manual controls as possible. An inbuilt EVF is also a must for me.
An EVF is all I need if they can make a it a really thin body (25mm?). This would really help pocketability. A protruding grip can be thicker than this if it helps the ergonomics.
Make more sense if 2 cameras will be announced in coming Nov. One will be available for Xmas 2011 and one for spring next year for the olympics 2012.
One coming dec will be GFX1 with a modified GH2/G3 sensor, a premium but compact model(clip-on EVF, no swivel screen)…
For those who can wait:
One coming next spring will be GX1 with a new sensor with built-in EVF and the whole shebang…
Yah, your guess is as good as mine. HaHa
I concur with your analysis that a GF7 or GFX1 GF1 replacement will be announced in Nov for availability by Xmas as that is one year since the GF2 was introduced but hope it will come with higher EVF option and possible higher rez tilt screen and I would expect use of the G3 sensor.
The second camera the GX1 coming in spring also makes perfect sense as is 1 year since intro of G3 in time for high summer sales. A recent breakdown of the innards of the GF3 and G3 showed that each uses the same basic internal core module so expect both cameras to be small only the GX1 to be thicker like G3 to house the EVF in different rangefinder form factor
One possible reason for Panys delay in rushing these products to market aside from delays in developing the new EVF,is for the last 3 months the GF2 has been the hottest selling small mirrorless camera on the market but that is now being challenged by the NEX5N and the sales of the G3 have been accelerating in Japan just behind the GF3 so Pany wants to maximize sales of those cameras while it can and is sticking to their normal 1 year cycle turnover or longer. Also bear in mind the now available compact Xlenses will make all these models including GF3 more attractive. I think one reason the GH3 is left on hold to late 2012 is the new GX1 in new body will do everything that one would have done and be more attractive to buyers.
Read from a China website called it GFX1, you can check out the image here http://product.it168.com/detail/doc/463630/index.shtml
That link is funny …they have a GFx mock up, (on what appears to be a product page) with the old 4/3’s Leica 45-100mm zoom as the kit lens!
The “GFX1” name is what Andrew Reid from EOSHD got told by his sources. And that mockup was created by him as well. It’s based off a Panasonic L1 picture (just like other mockups), hence the FourThirds lens mounted on it.
oh…so that is just an old L1 photo with GFX1 printed on it….I see.
Thanks for posting this link to what may be an even bigger rumor than the existing one. While the picture indeed is that of the L1 and the actual GFX1 may look closer to that rendering shown for this rumor, they go to great lengths to show size comparisons to G12, GF3, and 60D so very likely a scaled down L1 same size as the GF1. Another very interesting point they show a blank for a future GX1 so there are two models in the works! Seems very odd to produce such a product page even comparing to other cameras unless it is coming? After all recently most camera leaks have come out of China and the expected announcement is only the end of Nov?
I only hope the rumor of availability not until spring is referring to US market only so we can at least know what is coming which would be reasonable as they would sell to Japan market with higher markup or profit first and then to US when production ramps up?
I wonder Is there something more substantial and interesting to appeal to those of us who have a GH2……. surely there must be more…. mabe an EVF….. or a better JPEG engine
Sorry, once again..
That would interest me as well.
> mabe an EVF….
I guess an EVF will be included. But the LCD in particular needs improvement badly.
> or a better JPEG engine
Yes, that can be expected.
Something else, apart from the smaller size? Electronic shutter?
they will miss Xmas again!!!
if by tweaking they will improve DR by one stop, then its a good enough sensor for me, otherwise i’ll stick to sony or film
GH2 sensor? Now tell me what it can possibly have over a G3 – except for manual controls – which I increasingly feel I will be purchasing for Christmas…
Multi-Aspect Ratio!
Spring… 2013?
Yep, that sounds about right, for Panasonic. 😉
Just in time for 2013 financial year in Japan
They just need to take G3 interior and then:
– put this into L1 like body and add two more function buttons (3 Fn is nice)
– replace EVF with better one, up to Nex-7
– change sensor to tweaked GH2 (please give us more DR!)
– keep articulated screen
So basically make GH2 with better EVF and bit smaller, more stylish, less DSLR-like body.
This way it can be competition to Nex-7.
GH-2 sensor is already obsolete compared to the competition, it better be a new-ass high-performance sensor like the sony’s have, otherwise, goodnight panasonic, i like the ‘only 10mp but super high performance’ (D3s like…) sensor idea…
Hehe, it’s already a “top dog” sensor in more than one aspect:
*1. http://www.eoshd.com/content/4279/how-the-gh2-is-still-top-dog-for-video-quality
*2. “The GH2 actually has a fully digital sensor with A/D converters on each channel, and it runs at 120fps for the contrast detect AF system.”
(already a design not too far from Sony’s sensors!)
Its seems you and many others often forget that the Micro Four Thirds sensor intentially was made smaller than APS-C size. It’s a physical property that gives nearl oneaperture stop lesser performance from the MFT sensor when compared to APS-C. A fact to have in mind when i.e. looking at the DxOLab figures of merit.
I want a Gf1 size body…..
The new 12-35 and 35-100 two lens kit
Optional sumilux 25 f1.4 kit
In camera HDR, Panorama
Advanced metreing and white balance
Better JPEG engine
EVF
Articulating screen
Better flash control.
Improved video
And I don’t mind if the price seems High……
> And I don’t mind if the price seems High……
More than $3000/2400Euro would be my first guess for ‘the new 12-35 and 35-100 two lens kit’ (if it is available at all..) I’d love to be pleasantly surprised, though.
+1
+ touch screen
+ “focus peaking”
+ electronic shutter, i.e. high flash sync speed
+ built in GN15 flash that can bounce
+ proper grip or exchangeable grips
+ IBIS ( oh well, maybe that’s too much for Panasonic’s limited resources 😉 )
+1 on most of those things.
GH2+ multi-aspect sensor with higher dynamic range. 2 stops?
AND no more pixels! 16MP is more than enough!
Bring back ISO 100. ISO 50 would be better.
EVF and LCD at similar resolution as NEX-7
YES articulated LCD.
External Mic jack that doesn’t need an adaptor.
YES YES YES to focus peaking. Tried it the other day on a NEX-5. VERY nice.
Actually make body-only available. I don’t want or need kit lenses.
My guess is that they will Announce the camera’s, just before the NEX-7 becomes available.. Just a thought.. So I guess this means GH3 wont be coming till 2014.. 🙁
Cant wait to dump my GF2, I really hate the interface on that camera.. Hopefully Panny speeds things up.
+10,..dont forget to ask for a good battery life-500 shot
-You want a power battery grip (and while at it, include the GPS as well), or a larger battery internally, like in the new Nikon V1?
Finally! It’s been more than twenty days since you’ve posted a major rumor :).
“we will have to wait for a very ling time before to get our hands on the new Panasonic camera. I am not sure that is a smart “strategy”.”
It is. It will deter many from buying NEX-7 and that’s the reason for such early announcements. The same strategy was used by Sony for NEX-7… They even leaked prototype images a month before. I’m not complaining. If I didn’t want to know what the manufacturers are up to, I wouldn’t be reading this site.
if it were to compete with the NEX 7…
these are all it needs: (realistically)
1. GH2 Sensor
2. Compact/sleek body design(L1)
3. Better JPEG processing.
4. G3 interface
5. Improved EVF
obviously.. if it is being called the GX1.. then it is going to include the new 14-42mm X lens in the kit. which i think is awesome!
if this happens… then $1000 would be a steal.
Wrong place, sorry.
I would think GF7 is GF1 successor. GX1 ought to be something that relates to X lenses, either very compact (GF3 successor) or a video oriented camera, but with a different form factor than GH. If the latter, maybe it is the successor of GH2, and there will be no camera called GH3.
I think the strategy is the best they can (apparently) have at the moment. They are not ready with this product, but they MUST prevent M43 users sell their equipment and run for e NEX-7.
I can imagine that many of us look with envy to the NEX-7 which is announced but not yet available. Announcing a similar product, even if it is slightly less advanced and even if it is a few month delayed could keep a lot of us on M43 and wait patiently for that Lumix. The much better M43 lenses (compared to Sony E mount) is a strong argument that could compensate a slightly less capable camera with a slightly later availibility.
No matter how good the NEX7 is, I will never switch because of the lens situation. Ferrari without tyres etc. I dont believe good & compact lenses are possible for NEX. i borrowed a NEX5 and 16mm for three weeks and the sensor is great, but the lens was good in the centre but very poor off centre.I am not much interested in the world of manual lenses and adapters.
Sounding hopeful – looking forward to more news, could be just what I’m looking for!
Does anyone know whether Panasonic have ever revealed exactly what the various letter designations in the G range stand for?
They use G for the complete range, as in “Lumix G Micro System”, and I’ve seen promotional material at exhibitions seeming to link the G to Generation, as in “New Generation System Cameras” and “Lumix Generation System Cameras”, with the G of Generation matching the G logo, but does it actually stand for anything specific?
The H in GH seems to link with High End models and HD, and could GF categorize Finderless models? X seems to be related to the power zoom lenses.
Anything specific guys and gals? If we understood the code perhaps we could make more sense of leaks and rumors.
i’m afraid the decent gh-2 sensor, is not ‘good enough’ to face the sensor tech from other competitors which are already on the market today
panasonic needs to pull out something better than the GH-2 sensor imo if they’re serious about this product
as far as i know the best 43 sensor up to date is still the one from the GH-1
i guess the gh2 i just bought will hold its second hand value then, 🙂
what i would like is the gh2 sensor in the exact same body as the gf1, so it still fits my 1000 euro underwater housing
Panasonic have to be as good as Sony NEX-7. In NEX-7 we have swivel superb LCD, beutiful EVF and the best APS sensor (in some test better than many FF sensors).
What will offer Panasonic to compete with such NEX?
Sensor from GH2 is below level of sensors from newest NEX.
No swivel LCD (or OLED) is worse then swivel.
EVF from Sony is now better than in GH2.
The 24MP sensor is supposedly very noisy. The NEX-5 is getting rave reviews.
-It probably still comes out in the wash, whether you print from a 16Mpix or a 24Mpix camera, if they both use the same semiconductor process.
-The drawback is power consumption, heat, battery drain, handling and storage. Personally, I seldom need such large files, and if I do, I better feed it with high class lenses.
– better DR is necessary (much better)
– Mpix are not important, can be even 10Mpix
– articulating screen (OLED?)
– flash control like in Olympus (or better, by Wi-Fi)
– faster AF (Nikon V1 competition)
– panorama, HDR in firmware
– “focus peaking”
– IBIS
It should be better than NX-7. Maybe NEX’s sensor is bigger and has more Mpix, but in DR with smaller amount of Mpix Panas have to be equal to Sony (or better). And better in other aspects.
A miniature L1 with 25 1.4 would be amazing.
+1
Well, whatever it is, I hope it spurs Olly to bring out one in a similar style. PEN E-FT1 anyone?…..I really don’t use video, and don’t want to lose the Olly JPEGs, but I do want the EVF in the corner! Make it a kit with the 45/1.8 to really surprise and delight!
I am with you on that one. I want to know what Olympus is doing. There has been no information on any Pen with built-in EVF for a while. What have Olympus SLR division been doing given that there has not been any replacements for E-xxx and E-xx 43 models for years.
Here’s hoping they come out with a model with built in EVF and with a new improved sensor. And yes an EVF in the corner like the E-330 please. Oh and release the 12mm and 45mm lenses in black. Otherwise I may have to buy this Panasonic model.
Simple. Just put G3 sensor into GF1 body with built-in EVF and that will sell in bulk loads and kill off all competition.
I wonder what makes it so difficult and long time for panasonic to think of this.
I hear ya Nick, but no need to kill off any competition. Competition brings us what we want faster. Also, fans are fans, there will be no NEX or m43 killer for a long time.
Mind you, that whole game makes for faster obsolescence as well. My E-PL1 isn’t worth 25% of what I paid for it now, but it is still more than 25% of the usefulness of an E-PL3. At least the PEN with built in EVF will probably use the same batteries, so the E-PL1 will always be a good back-up body.
Hope it is the downsizing of the Evf which makes problem since it would be good news (even if implying delay)… Not quite sure yet that evf is included !
Hope it is the downsizing of the Evf which makes problem since it would be good news (even if implying delay)… Not quite sure yet that evf is included
You actually think Panasonic might do what we want????????? :-0….I am hopeful…but definitely not holding my breath!
Lol !!!
New sensor is necessary to compete with NEX. Current sensors are out of date.
Not with more Mpix, but with better DR and ISO (DR specially, because fater lenses in m43 – wide prime is 1EV faster, expensive standard is 0,5EV faster – Leica vs Zeiss) can help to keep lower ISO.
Re: New sensor is necessary to compete with NEX. Current sensors are out of date.
– Agree that a sensor like in the new Nikon 1 System or the Sony Exmor “Column-Parallel A/D Conversion Technique” is necessary, to maintain the IQ comparison between MFT and APS-C. But beware the MTF sensor actually is physically smaller.
– However, for the same lens volume, the overall camera system performance, should come out in the wash. While accepting an aperture stop lesser performance, the size of the MFT system should always be more pocket attractive!
“available in Spring only! ” :
It will give me time to save money for it 😉
For my part a swivel screen will be appreciated, because it really help for video…
I am all for it, if it has a built in EVF and the X 14-42.
What we really need Admin, is to know an approx price.
Also to know if a Pen with built in EVF is in the works for next spring. We prefer IBIS
Last but not least: size.
If the system keeps developing we might get to the point of owning two cameras.
One for the sake of pro lenses and completeness, the other for absolute pocketability.
Admin, stay on the topic, please.
Also by comparison there is going to be a clash between the Fuji X100 successor, with bigger sensor, and the new micros, with lots of lenses.
So, depending on price I might go either way. I am sick and tired of throwaway cameras.
In other words this camera will offer nothing new except, perhaps, a retro RF appeal and hefty price tag… enjoy!
And nice number of well placed buttons an one nice Pasm dial and reasonnable size !!! Am I dreaming ?
Probably as Bob B said !!!
A lot of people seem to want evf but that seem to go against the design of the gf series which is to be compact. How I’d like to see Panasonic deal with this (as unorthodox as it may sound) is offer two shoes to keep the body as small as possible but still allow users to attach both flash and evf when needed, or light and shotgun mic for video shooters.
I agree with those saying articulated screen is a must, it’s a major leverage over Sony’s tilt screen. Touchscreen I’m not a fan of as it is usually one of the first things to break down in my previous devices. I understand that is the new trend and I’m okay with it as long as there’s enough physical buttons to operate without it.
The beauty of a GF1 is it’s simplicity. If you want an articulated screen I think GH2 or G3 has that. A true follow up to the GF1 should be compact and simple but with advanced features.
Definitely should have the option to turn off touch screen.
“tweaked GH2 sensor” – This is not enough, m4/3 sensors are already one generation back, this would put them two generations back. Sensors are not only about Mpix and ISO and the competition are improving at a much faster pace than Panasonic.
EVF in GH2 and G3 are very, very simple I think – must be improved a lot.
I own a G3 and the increased resolution is really useful.
What would make me by a new m4/3 camera? Significant improvents! The G3 is a very nice compromise – so far. Now PanOly cannot continue to “boil soup of a nail”, believing they now have the ultimate camera that just needs “tweaks”.
I am very interested in the NEX-7, it will be interesting to see whats tests and evaluations will tell.
Think about it’s features – m4/3 has to deliver something similar to stay in competition. (Not do like Olympus sit on their ass claiming they have the perfect camera – and those who disagree does not understand.)
Re: m4/3 sensors are already one generation back
– Actually the G3 sensor is pretty competitive. Should you upscale it to APS-C size, you should see. Many seems unfortunaltely not to understand the performace implications of a somewhat smaller sensor size that affects the Micro Four Thirds, and at the same time are blind of the positive effects it gains.
While the G3 sensor currently is the best choice at high ISO, the GH2 sensor is still the video “top dog”: http://www.eoshd.com/content/4279/how-the-gh2-is-still-top-dog-for-video-quality
Sensor is the weakness of m43. Competitors have better technology of sensors (or bigger, or both – bigger and better technology). All other things are not so important as sensor technology.
There is to companies in the system – Olympus and Panasonic. It is wrong that there is only one source of sensors. Olympus should find another deliverer of sensors (e.g. Sony) or to encourange somebody (e.g. Sigma, if Fuji don’t want) to enter to system with other sensors (Foevon).
Other things – like EVF in small body (not like G3 or GH2, similar to NEX-7), swivel LCD in small body (like in NEX), additional wheels are important, but not so important as sensor
now that nikon has release their terrible version of mirrorless, panasonic knows that they can put the older sensor in their new cameras and still sell something better than nikon. i feel that there will be a lull in real improvement for a while.
slightly larger gf1 with built-in viewfinder please. This is not rocket science.
Lack of elementary science happens to show somewhat frustrating nowadays !
Well, if Panasonic were able to build a better sensor, they would have done it already. We have to face it, at the moment their sensor tech is just worse than Sony’s. They excel at lenses though. If we could just get both together!
Panasonic should talk to Kodak (they make the Leica M9 sensor)….As they are about to go under…they might entertain any proposal right now! 🙂
Uh?
Kodak doesn’t make CMOS sensors, and their CCDs – besides not being suitable for live view cameras – have very poor low light performance.
@Narretz:
Panasonic are not so far behind – the problem has to do with pixel density, not efficiency.
(m)4:3 sensors are very very dense – if you take the G3 sensor as a reference, an equivalent (in terms of pixel density) APS-C sensor would have more than 26MP. Should you take the time to compare the G3 against the NEX7 (24MP) you might be surprised to learn they perform more or less on the same level.
You chose a small sensor system without understanding the consequences.
I am fine with the current (in my GF1) resolution, detail…etc. I am most disappointed by the dynamic range.
The blown highlights. That is what needs improvement. I can even live with the present low-light capability.
(I am a still shooter…I do not care about video, live view etc. As far as I am concerned …”Go buy a video camera” LOL!). I used to buy a still camera to shoot stills….now all my needs and my pocket book have to be impacted for video. I don’t get it? I don’t have a choice in the matter.
Imagine what a GREAT cost-effective camera that could be made if it was being made for ONE purpose! 🙂
i too love the gf1, and still it is my only digital. but please, 16 bit instead of 12bit output would make the world of difference to raw people.
Uh again?
12 bits are more than enough for the dynamic range the current (m)4:3 sensors are capable of.
The extra four bits would only contain zeros.
OK, but CCD means no EVF… if you really want a Kodak (or other) CCD you should be thinking in the lines of a RF or a DSLR.
+1
P.S. It might even be that the new Nikon 1 system sensor would perform better than the Sony dito for the same sensor size. And in addition containing embedded PD-AF sensor arrays.
Furthermore, the new Fujifilm sensors, …
It’s been over a year since the GH2 was announced and (sort of) went on sale. I would assume (and HOPE) that their internal road map would include improvements for the flagship multi-aspect ratio sensor for GH3 and whatever “pro”-ish GF7, GX1, GFX1 camera will be announced.
And honestly, this fixation on high-ISO performance at the expense of low ISO performance is detrimental. Of course, high ISO compensates for slow kit lenses. Remember when REAL professional film had ASA ratings below 100?
It’s like the megapixel fixation. How many people really shoot above 1600 or even 3200? Sure, I’ve played with 3200 and 6400 and even 12,800. Some of us get fast lenses for shooting in low light.
Low ISO and wider dynamic range is more important and might draw more DSLR shooters to M4/3, increase the user base, market share and profit. And would hopefully mean more money for R&D!
I personally think high ISO performance is more or equally important to m4/3 cameras as most cannot afford expensive fast zooms which would defeat the purpose to keep the size & weight down. So what if the newer cameras are obtaining a sweet point closer to ISO 400 when they at the same time are getting higher resolution and detail and capable of very good pictures at even ISO 1600-3200? Surely Pany is counting on development of the electronic shutter with its high speed HR capabilities to as rumored increase DR by up to 3X?
For me using high ISO capabilities of my Kx enables me to use my slow tele lenses of F5.6 with fast shutter speeds that only a couple of years ago would have required a huge bulking f2.8 tele lens. With tele lens I shoot at ISO 1600 most of the time especially in poor light and get sharper pictures than going lower. The same would apply to m4/3 products where many are complaining of the slow zoom lenses. Well in SLR days the principal reason for a fast lens was so that you could focus fast and accurately. Now with almost instantaneous AF that is much less of a factor except for the shallow depth of field wantabees.
Hopefully Panasonic has a strategy which will involve phasing out the old 12MP sensor by the end of next year. So in 2012 we might see the cheapest camera, the successor of the GF3, having the sensor from the G3. The sensor from the GH2 could then be used in the GF7 (the presumed GF1 successor with an EVF). Then an enhanced multi-aspect sensor can be used in the GH3.
Will Panasonic make note of the request from many of their customers that they reduce the base ISO and do their utmost to improve DR? Perhaps they will note that both the Nikon and NEX systems use a lower base ISO and copy the competition.
I’d be surprised if Panasonic launch any new model without the G3 (or better) sensor.
I hope phasing out here doesn’t mean shoving all those ‘unused leftovers’ down the throat of Olympus, or rather Olympus just happily rename them ‘Olympus optimized’ sensors.
Quite honestly I’ve gave up on buying any more m43 lenses and/or bodies for the time (I already have the 9-18, 20, 14-140, 45-200, 100-300 on the EPL1) and to me there is absolutely nothing that the new products offers that scream ‘must buy’ for me (my only gripe is that EPL1 doesn’t really have proper remote release).
I’m not yet ready to call the format a dead end, but if all Panasonic is willing to do is small upgrades to their sensor or even worse just cramming more MP into their outdated sensors, and having Olympus just being happy to re-badge those outdated sensors, m43’s future will definitely be very bleak.
Panasonic should buy sensors from Sony. That’s the best solution for all of us. I don’t mind paying a bit extra.
I’m pretty confident that M43 will be the mainstream and NEX will be niche in near future. Current NEX users are mostly ignorant consumer who blindly believes that the bigger sensor is better, and a few experienced photographers who use legacy lenses.
M43 sensor size is perfect for the compact size mirrorless and it has already proved by its lens lineup. NEX doesn’t have future, because its lens lineup will be small/dark or bright/huge lenses.
Anyway, it is true that Panasonic has to improve their sensor dramatically asap.
Some of you still don’t get it that the Panny sensor has better DR at 200 ISO, and that anyway the ISO scale is cooked.
By now there are various ways of improving DR electronically, lihe the Apical technology, which is built in the Oly’s Auto Gradation.
As for High ISO that’s what the market wants, possibly because people shoot after work hours, in pubs, or at home.
Sensor size might also become academic in the face of the high resolution achieved in m4/3 with the new lenses.
All those considerations show that some are still helplessly film-centric and outdated.
GL1 but more in the size of GF1. And a very much better sensor in terms of DR and noise up to 1.200.Rest of thing are sure wellcome, but remember….. the more thing this box will have the more expensive it will be……
I don’t think Olympus would ever use Sony sensor as Sony had refused shipment to them before back in the early days when DC was going mainstream
Do you have a source for that?
I have no access to inside information, nevertheless since Sony is selling sensors to everybody else why wouldn’t it sell sensors to Olympus?
Question is – would a Sony (m)4:3 sensor perform better than the current Panasonic sensors? I doubt it.
While the G3 sensor has improved noise performance (read noise), it seems not to have the speed and the DR of the GH2 sensor, which is already a relative to the Sony’s Exmor “Column-Parallel A/D Conversion Technique”.
New sensor technologies will come, but the push is from smaller sensor sizes. New technologies first arrives to the smaller, like already seen with the Fujifilm EXR technologies and it’s color filter array, and recently to the Nikon 1 System with it’s PD-AF embedded arrays.
Within a few years, we’ll see CMOS-BSI arrives to the Panasonic MFT multi-aspect sensor, which first will provide the global shutter having no penalty on fill factor (maintaining large microlenses for the light capturing diodes), and using “Column-Parallel A/D Conversion Technique” for video quality, high DR and low read noise properties. The honor words to remember are: “Improvements in Quantum Efficiency”
So, I wouldn’t worry too much, the bright future is yet to come, and I’m enjoying the good lenses of MFT already today.
“I don’t think Olympus would ever use Sony sensor”
Some Olympus P&Ss use Sony sensors.
Sounds great! I’d love a multi-aspect sensor in a more compact model than GH2!
All I know as a owner of a GH2 and a Sony 5n is that the crop factor is a bit annoying (on m43 anyway) and the GH2 is bloody awful at photo quality (jpeg/raw looks like mush to me).
So if it is the same sensor as GH2..I hope its REALLY tweaked to improve this aspect.
If true…dissapointing really.
@Andy: “(jpeg/raw looks like mush to me)”
-Isn’t that only a sloppy and a rather unqualified generalisation?
Look lets not beat around the bush…previously I had a GH1 and was better at stills than GH2…even my GF1 produces better images photowise. Here lies why Olympus stick with 12 megapixels.
GH2 is amazing for video….but thinking its a great stills camera is pushing it.
Photos from GH2 are soft,colours are crushed and unnatural….These are pretty well known issues from reviews of GH2.
I know what I see with my eyes even if “unqualified”
ungrounded is a better word, stop trolling.
Why the complaining tone every time you talk about Panasonic? Personally I think they Are continually innovating and are The company we can thank for the mirrorless push!
A gf1 with a gh2 sensor would be Magic!
What I’d like to see:
-Articulated screen (a must)
-EVF
-touchscreen, but manual controls sufficient to make use of touchscreen entirely optional.
-the fewer MP the better
I think it should be inexpensive and well made (quality plastic, good image quality, under $700 body) instead of another over-priced retro-art camera (like the x100, which is beautiful to look at but just doesn’t have the functionality to justify its price).
Sounds like you want GH2?
Panasonic better announce something… I think Nex-7 is going to sell really well.
GF7?
Why on earth would Panasonic copy Minolta naming convention? At least Sony bought Minolta and follows the same numbering system (7 for higher end, 9 for top of the line).
Can’t Panasonic now even come up with numbering system of their own?
What’s wrong with Panasonic?
SORRY ALL BUT THOSE IMAGES ARE FAKE TAKE A QUICK LOOK INTO PAINT AND SEE THE LOGO G YOU SEE THAT IS A COPY PAST ANS DE MICROFOURTHIRD LOGO TO HAHA NICE TRY 🙂 FOOLS
“The imaginary GF1 successor”
You should read the post before writing in all caps and calling people fools… you fool.
im talkin about those who did the pictures…don’t have time to lose insulting on internet
and when they say tweaked it is better or less than the gh2 sensor thanks for reading
I was talking to FAKE