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UPDATE: You can download the E-M5 manual (Click here for the english manual pdf).
Merci Beaucoup Focus Numerique! Finally we can download the original RAW files form the new Olympus E-M5 (Click here to visit the site). To download the file click on “Télécharger le fichier raw“.
So there is nor excuse now! This is the very first time we can judge the image quality without having to worry if the JPEG settings were correct or not. Focus Numerique reviewers are quite satisfied with the results: “At 1250 ISO, the image retains a lot of details and the color rendering of Olympus is always pleasant“.
So take your time guys, analyze the files and give us some feedback. Click that link to see the ISO test with the GX1. It will be easier for you to compare the [shoplink 29074]Olympus E-M5[/shoplink] RAW quality. A couple of days ago I asked you if you were happy with the JPEG quality of the E-M5 but many of you answered that you have to see more full size and RAW pics before to give a final voting.
I am going to start a new Poll. As usual take time before to vote:
[poll id=”118″]
Full Updated Preorder list:
1) Black E-M5 body at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Warehouse UK (Click here), Redcoon Germany (Click here) and Amazon Japan (Click here).
2) Silver E-M5 body at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Warehouse UK (Click here), Redcoon Germany (Click here), and Amazon Japan (Click here).
3) Black E-M5 body with 14-42mm lens at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here) and Amazon Japan (Click here).
4) Black E-M5 body with 12-50mm lens at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Jessops (Click here), Redcoon Deutschland (Click here), Amazon Deutschland (Click here) and Amazon Japan (Click here).
5) Silver E-M5 body with 12-50mm lens at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Jessops (Click here), Amazon Deutschland (Click here) and Amazon Japan (Click here).
6) FL-600R wireless flash at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here) and BHphoto (Click here).
7) MMF-3 Four Thirds adapter at
Amazon (Click here) and Adorama (Click here).
8.) HLD-6 power battery holder at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here) and Amazon Japan (Click here).
372 Responses
Definitely too much smoothing in these JPEG for my taste.
BTW, does a software that can read these RAW files exist already?
OK finally managed to open RAWs using Raw Photo Processor (thanks WT21!), and results are great, 3200 ISO is impressive and 6400 looks to be useable for small prints. Only colors get a bit off when sensibility increase, quite normal and recoverable. Quite impressive. I just hope they’ll improve the JPEG rendering with final release, but I’m quite confident with Olympus 🙂
As a side note, is there a way to change my vote? 😡
Yep! I can change it. Let me know how you wnat it now 🙂
Amazing, of course! 🙂
I changed the vote …but you will still see in bold your first vote (don’t know how to change this).
RawTherapee 4.0.x can open these files without problems.
For the records, xnConvert Mac (which is free and available in the App Store), can also open and convert these raws to PNG. I confirm the excellent results so far.
Looking great in general, tho still noisy shadows as always with m43.
at low isos is see minor amount of shadow noise only (in comparison with my E-P2 or GXR)
Olympus Viewer 2.0
For fast see:
Fast Picture Viewer
+ Picassa
One word: wow! I’ve just developped the files with Olympus Viewer (NR set to minímum) – plenty of detail upto ISO 6400 and hardly any noise.
My judgement after a quick look at jpeg results is ‘Promising’. There seems to be some strong processing going on, but you have to enlarge a lot to see it. And we have more pixels with this camera, so there’s a downsizing advantage too.
Me Like It so far!
You can open the file with RawTherapee 4 or FastStone 4.6
There is noise in shadow at 400 iso and 100% view, but on more reasonable size, it’s almost invisible. 6400 looks good too.
How do you open those RAW files? Lightroom 3.6 does not support them.
Fast Stone viewer loads them without breaking any sweat. Don’t forget in it’s settings to set RAW to be fully loaded (instead of the embedded JPEG preview).
Or don’t, and press ‘A’ to load fully only when necessary.
It would be great if I could open these with PS5, Preview, or camera raw but alas, nada. Doesn’t look as phenomenal as oly tried to make it sound.
Neither LR3 or 4 opens them. I hear RAW Therapee does usually.
Raw Photo Processor will open them.
Thanks!
Thanks as well.
Was also looking for a OS X Raw ‘Opener’ when Preview, Photoshop and everything else failed.
That 12-50mm, albeit slow, has a nice smooth bokeh.
I think they are much better at higher ISO in terms of noise. Looking at sample #15, ,at ISO 6400 (this looks like a hotel lobby with a lot of black), it looks useable in smaller sizes. The noise looks controllable. A lot more than i can say about current Oly high ISO. (I don’t have a Panny to compare, so I am only comparing to my experience with Oly)
fantastic performance! iso6400 and 12800 are both usable. I think that this is not the G3/GX1 sensor…
I also think it’s incredible! OK, it IS smoothed, but nearly no colour noise up to 3200 and also 6400 looks ok. My pen E-P2 was much worse at 1600!!!! But: 25600 is only a marketing gag.
> But: 25600 is only a marketing gag.
No, it isn’t. Look at the last picture, which is ISO 25600. Even that is perfectly usable for small prints (with some PP, of course). I’m very impressed by the performance.
Yea, 25,600 is good enough for images on the internet 😀
Or nighttime video 😀
Interesting, but unfortunately still not the final firmware…
You’re not suggesting the final firmware wouldn’t be as good, are you?
No, no, no, I expect that the pics will be better with the final firmware 🙂 And I think I can preorder my E-M5 now 🙂
I would like to pre-order, but it will have to wait & maybe another model will come out before I can buy again.
Better than I hoped. In noise terms it seems D700 territory. I’d be happy to use ISO5000, which is way beyond my needs.
The Olympus Viewer seems to work. That said – remember, it’s still prerelease firmware, so I’ll wait with making up my mind 🙂
Does Oly Master open the RAW or the embedded jpg? Because when I view the file 1:1 in Oly Master, it’s got jaggies like it’s low res, blown up too much.
ISO 1600 looks promising…
There is something very unusual going on.
There is a massive amount of noise when you go from ISO3200 to ISO6400. I’d almost swear that there is NR going on ON RAW at ISO1600 & ISO3200.
Having said that ISO3200 is AMAZING. This looks like the IQ is way above G3/X1 or even GH2.
On another note: RIP anti-alias filter.
Many of these pics are good tests for the blacks, something, IMO, Oly has struggled with. The noise is very uniform, and is more grain like in High ISO with less Chroma noise. But none of these pictures unfortunately really stress DR. Still, if the new camera gives us blacker blacks, that’s a big step in the right direction for Oly.
If you get blacker blacks, it means that the DR is LOWER.
I guess I mean less noise in the shadows. Purer blacks. Any rate, would love to hear other’s input on the same. I’m not the best judge of DR
There’s finally a landscape picture, although a small one here: http://www.facebook.com/OlympusOMD.Official
Sweet! Now to find software to open the images…
Not sure if what I am viewing is the raw or embedded Jpg, but managed to open them in the Olympus Viewer. Even if they are Jpegs, the noise control looks pretty good to me, even at ISO5000. The portrait shot of the guy in the rain is ISO2500, and looks reasonable, but somewhat muddy/smoothed when viewed at 100%. I wonder if that’s the result of Jpg compression?
Wait, I’ve found it now! Olympus Viewer > Filter > Raw Development > Noise Filter > Off.
Well, it’s tricky to judge the images as there are no consistent shots of the same image showing the drop in quality. The shots in the hotel seem to be slightly out of focus or something, because even when turning off noise reduction, the flowers seem smudged. Overall though, I’m pleased with the performance into the 3200-6400 range, especially in the better lit photos like the guy in the suit and the macrons. No good high ISO photos sharp across the range to judge shadow noise though.
View 1:1 in Oly Master. If you see jaggies, then you are looking at the embedded jpg.
In Olympus Viewer, I zoom in to each image full size. Some of the higher ISO images look a little smushed, but turning off the noise filter shows fine grain, so I’m assuming this is the Raw file. No jaggies I can see.
Okay, apparently even with the noise filter off I’m still looking at the Jpg. Am downloading Raw Therapee to try.
There’s definitely a much finer grain and more detail in the raws. Having downloaded Raw Photo Processor and checked, it seems the Olympus Viewer software is showing the Jpegs, even with the noise filter off. I’m very impressed with these pictures and the room for exposure compensation. I just wish I could change my vote above from ‘slight improvement’ to ‘amazing’ :D.
That makes sense about Viewer. They usually have to release a new update before a new camera is supported.
Ok, so there are already 60 votes, 30 of which claim ‘Amazing’, and about 75% claim better than G3/GX1 or ‘Amazing’ yet any popular Raw software cannot 0pen the files?
Something is Amazing, but it might not be the contents of the files just yet…
Someone post some actual processed files without messing the NR…
“Someone post some actual processed files without messing the NR…”
Yes, please! Pretty, pretty please!
You can use the latest version of Olympus viewer 2 to open them.
I believe you only see the embedded jpg. Go to 1:1, and you’ll see the pic resolution is really low, meaning you are viewing the jpg, not the RAW data, unless someone can correct me on that.
Yes, you are right, sorry.
No, Oly Viewer processes these allright. It’s just slow to zoom to 1:1 😉
Tried clicking that, but I didn’t see a change in image quality.
Same here!
Faststone viewer.
raw therapee opens those raw files, very interesting results…
RPP, too.
Well, not bad at all!
they are amazing they stress black… with lightroom 4 they would get rid of colour noise (only at 25600 there is no color saturation and that means iso 6400 would be really like today iso 6400 in e-p3)but with better DR… look how grey tones have small grain and not coarse big grain which is an indication of less than 8 stops of DR usually… This must be Toshiba (FUJI) sensor of x10 because that sensor if scaled would have 9 stops at iso 3200 (good for pro-like results ) and 8 stops at 6400, 7 stops at 12800 and 6 stops at 25600… In an emerggency even 12800 could be used
Sorry, not following. Could you re-state? Your conclusion sounds informative, but my little brain needs a bit more explanation 🙂
How can you say these are better than G3/GX1 based on smooth/oily JPEGs? You can’t.
Seeing as Olympus have historically had a better JPEG engine with better resolution, colour, etc, you would expect to notice a difference but these images have excessive noise reduction – look at the flowers in the high ISO shots…
If it’s a raw file, you should be able to set the amount of noise reduction in the raw developer program.
Looks like Pany G3 images.
I have a G3 and the raw files look different…especially the blacks. At the.very least, the chip processing to output the raw file is different even if the sensor might be the same as the g3.
If a software can open raw files, that means they’re from an existing sensor.
Does it? Wouldn’t it just mean the raw-file follows the same standard as before for storing information?
Not even close. All it means is that the files are using a known format/compression schema.
I´ve opened them easily on raw therapee, with no color problem at all…
Files sizes are pretty small — 14MB for low ISO shots (up to 18-19MB for the high ISO, noisy shots). I believe that means it’s still got pretty standard/low bit rate color, correct?
It’s lossless compression of the raw files. Bitrate does not apply.
Maybe its the new lens, but the files are not sharp…noise seems well controled (not amazing), but the G1x images i downloaded from photographyblog are much sharper than this 12-50mm lens….
Olympus Viewer can open the files. Just remember to press the yellow triangle below the image to view the files in full resolution when you are viewing them at 100%.
Clicked that – no change at all.
I know you guys are dissecting the ins and outs of the sensor, iso noise and depth of colour etc but your not discussing the really important issue of the Focus Numerique article.
I mean seriously Admin!! where is the voting for how SMOKING HOT the model is in the RAW pics 😉 😀
+10000!
I am sure she still look as hot with smooth edges at iso 10000 napalm 😉
She’s fine in any ISO, imo 😀
Hey Robert. You REALLY like the guy in the bow tie THAT much? 😉
Bow ties are cool, so says Dr Who 😛
Goddamn randy Australian!
Disclosure: I am one too.
Looking really good. Haven’t compared side-to-side but 3200 would probably best anything at 1600 shot from my GXR A12. Jeez, I wonder what an Olympus Pro m4/3 holds for us?
As an aside, could anybody compare output/noise ratio to something favourable in the Canon/Nikon arsenal they know best? I don’t deal with digital unless it’s mirrorless slash rangefinder.
ISO12800 seems usable. noise is acceptable, color mostly retained. A bit mushy, but should still produce decent prints.
It ISO12800 looks like ISO800 of my Ixus 300HS, maybe even better
For me, the RAWs look like they have been de-noised by the camera. The look very smooth, with a lack of details.
You can turn off the noise filter when in the develop raw mode of olympus viewer
Nope, in Olympus Viewer you can’t turn off NR completely. Even if you set it to “OFF”, a weak NR will be applied (it is the same for e.g. E-P3.) Use Raw Therapee or something similar to see the original images.
Righty. Downloading RT now then.
OK, opened it with Raw Therapee and now have seen the real RAWs: not to bad, not to good, but for 16MP OK.
edit
Right, I’m getting pretty good results from Raw Photo Processor 64. Looking at the 3200ISO and 6400ISO samples from the hotel lobby, I’m pretty impressed – even 12800ISO is usable, but I would’ve left it there. 25600ISO is an absolute emergency setting in my opinion. Anyways, I’ve been doing fine with a max setting of 3200ISO on my 5D mkI, so I think I can get over not shooting at 320000ISO yet. 🙂
There is a typo on the vote question ahve instead of have.
Thanks!
Comparing the RAWs to a GX1 it seems that the EM-5 at 1600 is as good as the GX1 at 800. But the EM-5 has no ISO 100. Maybe Olympus simply added 1 stop to the ISO numbers for marketing reasons?
I know this discussion is all about high ISO noise, but since it’s clearly not an issue with the E-M5 I would like to discuss another observation: colour signature.
The colours in the samples that begin to emerge are different from the ones I’m used to see from the PENs. They seem more subtle, “mature” if you like, with Kodachrome-like characteristics. Greens and blues are especially deep and well contained. Of all Olympus cameras I had the pleasure to own, the colour signature resembles that of the E-3.
I promised myself “no new camera in 2012”, but I’m not sure I will be able to resist this rich, dark goodness for long.
Well they say dark chocolate is good for you, why dark cameras 😉
From looking at the RAW histogram, it appears that ISO3200 is a real ISO, and 6400 is a digital scaling.
I don’t know about the GX1 et al., but that definitely makes it different from the GH2.
Guesstimating from the histogram, the read noise at ISO 3200 is about 9.x ADU, and the available signal range is about (4096-270 (offset)), so a dynamic range (DxO-style) of around 8-8.5 EV at that ISO. That would be about the same or slightly better than the GX1/G3, and much better than the older sensor.
Real dark frames are of course needed to tell anything for sure.
Same sort of guesstimation from an ISO 200 file gives about 11.something-12 bits of DR. That would be a huge improvement over the old sensor and probably better than any other current 4/3 sensor. I don’t really trust my calculations, but I will be very interested to see what DxO says in controlled tests.
So sounds like high ISO is good. What about 200 ISO? How’s the DR and shadow noise?
These look great. Only a real fussy pants could complain about a four thirds sized sensor producing results like this. Amazing is the word I would use, especially living through all iterations of the four thirds sensor.
put that sensor on an EP3 body and im sold
Too bad you still can’t use the live histogram and level gauge simultaneously. Reading through the manual, I find this very disappointing. Also, the AF points still look too large for thin DOF work.
using Raw Therapee with everything set at neutral:
I checked the 200,400 and 640 iso shots first as thats where i mostly am.
As I pushed the exposure to +2, its amazing to see how clean the shadow areas stay, almost as good as i pushed the iso 80 files from my kodak dcs 760. Even the raw headroom has become better now (almost being able to recover data at +/-2 stops it seems)
The high iso samples are impressive.
one word: amazing!
I just did some experiments pushing up the EV too. Much better than my current EPM1 in these limited tests. Definitely interesting now.
Thanks. It sounds really good. Maybe it’s time for me to change a camera at last. 🙂
Seems to me one of the best, if not the best, MicroFourThirds RAW out there. The noise is really fine grain. And lots of detail. A think this camera will be a huge hit.
Amazing quality – bring on an E-7 with this sensor and processing engine!
IQ looks very good. The sensor is much better than E-5.
One dissapointment: no way to plug in a rode mic. Okee, you can do this with the sema-1, but this uses the flash shoe so no possibility to set the mic on the camera.
Question: did you read the manual?
I could not find the framerates in movie mode with the exception of 30fps and 60i. No 25, 50, 60 fps available?
Went over the manual, Couldn’t see any mention of Intervalometer / Time Lapse mode.
I guess DPReview was wrong, Too Bad!
Moreover, the bracketing mode is wrong again (I want option to initiate the whole process by one press).
You can trick Olys into time lapse by using the anti-shock + timer combo.
When bracketing, set the camera to continues shooting and you will get all bracketed frames with one shutter button press! What bugs me is that the AE bracketing range is again so small.
Too bad they time lapse function seems to be wrong info.
Therefore it seems you can do 3D images with any lens now (see manual page 61).
Does anybody know if it will have an orientation sensor? I would guess so, but couldn’t find this info anywhere.
When bracketing, set the camera to continues shooting and you will get all bracketed frames with one press of the shutter button! What bugs me is that the AE bracketing range is again so small.
Too bad the info about a time lapse function seems to be wrong :-(.
Therefore it seems you can do 3D images with any lens now (see manual page 61).
Does anybody know if it will have an orientation sensor? I would guess so, but couldn’t find this info anywhere.
The interesting feature wasn’t time-lapse, its the ability to see a bulb exposures in real time.
+1000!
That’s the feature that jumps out for me. It’s a pain to shoot really long exposures and have no idea what it will look like, even with Constant Preview, etc.. It would be great to be able to hit STOP, when it looks right! Just like baking cookies! 😉
@Archer Sully
agreed 😀 and anyway no timelapse and 2 custom white balances was a typo/error by dpreview
It’s not what I meant.
Because I’d like to initiate the bracketing by using 2Sec delay.
It has to be one press (and release) to get them all as fast as the camera can.
I wish it had an intervalometer.
Those 2 features are so easy to implement.
Don’t have time for RAW, but having compared high ISO samples of the restaurant entrance, I’m more than satisfied. I’d safely use ISO 1600, ISO 3200 in low light situations with moving subjects, even ISO 6400 as an emergency. Bravo Olympus, the image quality is amazing! Don’t need anything more from a digital camera sensor. Now, put that sensor in a more conventional and more affordable body that looks like G3 or NEX-7.
my two dinars 🙂
First price drop E-M5 body.
EU price is set at 999,99 euro’s. First announced price was a bit higher approx 1100 euro’s. So this is good news.
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/olympusem5/page2.asp
AE Bracketing is only accessible via menu… no shortcut buttons like on the E-30 and E-5 and it can’t be assigned to the Fn or REC buttons. Im in no rush to buy a new camera, I’ll wait for the pro OM-D
noise performance looks good, judging from the jpegs
but the skin texture at low iso is quite smeared and also the skin tones don’t look like olympus at its best. let’s see.
They probably used the portrait scene mode, which shall smear skin tones..?
Then we do not get the grip included like UK.
Ha ….. PS & LR rendered useless here. 😀
I may be imagining it… but to me… the way the noise is spread it looks like a Fuji sensor.
But then again… I am no expert.
Slight O/T.
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/olympusem5/
Number of comments on is above 1000 for the DPR’s preview of the E-M5.
Sold GH2s and canceled NEX-7 preorders, free hugs and fluffy bunnies, it is all there.
Yes, I’ve noticed that too. This camera ticks a lot of boxes.
Yet I won’t sell my GH2, it’s still too much of a Frankenstein for video.
I agree, the noise characteristic is similar to the x100, although is defibately isn’t the x100 sensor.
Bah…high ISO performance is the cancer of the modern Photography…Why people need clean images at 32006400 iso?!? We have a lot of fixed lens at 1.4 1.8 etc…etc…and the SUN…imho Photography is light and in abscence of a “good” light images are horrible.
Just spend an hour in a park and take pictures of a pet dog or a casual jogger. You’ll most likely end up retracting the “cancer” statement.
@hlbt
could always use flash for casual shots of joggers http://www.flickr.com/photos/youdidntdidyou/6189761154/in/photostream
That’s a very nice picture, with tasteful use of flash! I still believe that a wider degree of freedom over shutter speed is always a welcome option though.
This is perfect to go along along with my D800 🙂
This still isn’t the final firmware, so we can expect the production cameras to be even better.
Anybody else find these files painfully slow to render in Oly Viewer? I hope this is fixed in the Viewer version that supports the E-M5, and isn’t just because of the higher resolution.
Me too. Thought it was my computer, but perhaps not. Try looking at the images in a proper raw program. The Oly software only sees the Jpegs, and although they look good, I’m pleased to say the pictures have even more detail when viewed in a raw converter :).
zzzzzz…..let me know when the Lightroom update is announced.
OMG… ISO 6400 is very usable…. the only problem i see is the picture is a little soft… to my opinion its the same with Xz-1 camera… my guess is the one who manufacture the sensor of XZ-1… is also the one who made the OMD sensor… for sure
Well, the hotel lobby pictures are made with the 12-50 wide open @ 12 mm; and I do not believe that it is a “reference” lens under these circumstances. It is also possible that the raws are somehow “cooked”.
Images look good, I cannot wait to see the results with a real lens attached. The 12-50mm is not very good.
Be careful: RawTheraPee is good, but I have always gotten better results from Olympus Viewer when I do shoot RAW.
Hi!
I´m starting to wonder if this hype is made by Olympus themselves? And how relevant can imagefiles be when the camera operates on Beta-level? Why not relax a bit and wait for the releaseversion of the cameras firmware. There is a reason why sites like DPreview.com and cameralabs.com sometimes write their reviews a bit late in the consumers opinion. They simply want to review the finished product.
Look at their panasonic GX1-review. In a preview the high-ISO noise looked exactly like that from the G3, in the review however there is an improvement in GX1s favour after the camera got it´s final firmware. Patience fellows…
If the images are looking this good now, I have little doubt they will look slightly better when the firmware is officially finished :D.
Panasonic and Olympus sit down for a meeting:
Look, its in both our interests to expand the user base of M43. Competition is starting to hot up in the mirrorless arena. What shall we do ? We should go upmarket and weatherseal etc.
Olympus: Then Give us your latest sensor for our new OM-D ?
Panasonic: OK. We will give it to you. You get a 6 month head start, BUT we cripple the video and multi aspect. Then we release the GH3 uncrippled after 6 months ?
Olympus: OK deal.
I did some comparison with my G3 files and the EM5 files: Difficult to compare, but in similar lighting condidions the resolution/sharpness/detail is NOT better than G3. That may be because the 12-50 lens is average. I used 12mm, 25mm, 45mm all significantly better than the kit zoom. So I would estimate the EM5 quality is the same as G3/GX1.
Also viewing Fuji x-pro files(jpg) in the same viewer, these come out on top.
Did not check high ISO – not that interesting for me
Hmmm ISO 6400 looks like 12800 on the 7D which for me is very usable 🙂
That is too bad because I had just decided that I cannot afford it, now I must start saving.
to all idiots who voted for “image quality is amazing”
are you guys retards??
I guess seeing m4/3 images everyday you really forgot what is amazing image quality
Look at the bathroom photos @ISO3200
It is like waterbrushed photo, how could someone can not see this ?
keep getting milked cash cows.
People are really going to listen to what you have to say when you call them “retards”.
Try being civil for a change.
when they voted for Amazing, i believe they are referencing m4/3 quality. of course compared to FF they dont come close. but these look pretty ‘amazing’ compared to previous m4/3 samples
You forgot about the m4/3 advantages in size and weight. Many people on this forum have Canon and Nikon systems, so I don’t think their excitement over the E-M5 is “retarded”.
Perhaps we should talk about why the Eos 60D has better high ISO images than the 7D when it is lower grade camera.
That is because you have just described what the JPEG file looks like which has loads of noise reduction. Try downloading the Raw file and opening it up with Raw Photo Processor (free program)
I am glad you did not call them Pentax Q users! LOL!
I’m impressed. Using Cyberlink PhotoDirector to view the ORFs at full resolution. For stills, this camera should satisfy most requirements.
Whenever I see a camera company showing off their new sensor by presenting B&W photos, I always wonder how much chroma noise they are covering up.
To me image quality at high iso is almost identically to the GX1/G3…:(
To my mind 1K is way to much.
Well then, buy the plasic camera and be done with it.
I said it before the E-M5 is much different from G3/GX1 even if the sensor would be the same, its better then the Pana’s. Build, features and IQ together justify the €999,99 price of the body!
Can someone tell me if the EM5 IQ is better or worse than fuji x100 at high iso 3200 and 6400 (what I currently own). I dont have a trained eye like you guys but still like to get the info as a relative comparison
Nope, fuji is another league
To each its own, but IMO, IQ is not there. The camera is beautiful from a design POV, no doubt, unfortunately, the IQ is not what I would expect at that price point. When you think rationally about it, a full OM-D system, with say 3 prime lenses (m.zuiko 12 & 45mm + PanLeica 25mm and a kit lens) is about $3K. A comparable Fuji X-Pro 1 system with three prime lenses (18, 35 & 60mm) is about $3.5K and the Fuji can produce substantially better IQ than this OM-D.
IMO, MFTs still need some more R&D and maturing time to even come close to DSLR IQ. For now I will stick with my great D5000 (albeit big and at times heavy). Entry level Nikon and Canon DSLRs offer substantially better IQ at reasonable prices and a fraction of the cost of this Oly, specially now with new models coming out, D3100, D5100 and even D7000 (if you can find one) prices should drop further. Heck, a new D3100 with a kit lens sells for about $500 and has far superior IQ than this beautiful looking OM-D! And also, consider that Nikkor prime DX lenses go for about $200. I would even favor the new ugly Pentax K-01 or the new Canon G1X over this OM-D. To me it’s all about IQ, the rest is all fluff. Just my 2¢.
I see a great IQ in those pictures. I am sure the sensor is made by Sony and then tweaked by Olympus. There is also great dynamic range not found in the GX1 samples. This immediately screams “Sony”. Those images rival the NEX 5n at high ISO, which is saying a lot !
Imagine what this sensor is capable of with fast prime lenses…
The low part of the RAW histogram in one of the ISO 200 pictures seems visually pretty tight (maybe only ~1 ADU read noise). That would give a DxO-style DR pushing 12 bits at base ISO, which would be pretty impressive.
With MFT you are paying a premium not to lug a massive Nikon or Canon DSLR. And if you are going to carry a gargantuan DSLR, you might as well step up to a full frame.
Agree, but really, how much smaller and lighter is an OM-D with a kit lens compared to say a D3100 with a kit lens? Check this out: http://camerasize.com/compare/#3,289
As someone who ditched his APS-C kit for MFT, the difference in bulk and weight is huge. I can fit my entire MFT kit (4 lenses) in a bag that’s smaller than 550D + L zoom. There’s no turning back for someone who travels a lot, or rides a motorcycle.
Yep, exactly the reasons why I am looking at alternatives from a size/weight perspective without sacrificing IQ. For now though, given prices and IQ samples I have seen thus far, I am disappointed at the OM-D and favor the Fuji X-Pro 1. I am willing to pay a prime for smaller and lighter gear but with IQ at least comparable to APS-C.
But then you have already decided against the m43 at the outset! Due to the larger sensor and physics, m43 sensor can only approach that of APS-C asymptotically. But why are you then even interested in 43rumors???
I have not ruled out MFTS yet. As I said, I am looking at alternatives and was hopeful that this beautiful OM-D would somehow match APS-C IQ. Unfortunately, so far it hasn’t happened but I’ll keep waiting for serious and complete reviews to emerge before I make my final decision.
MFTs will never reach APS-C IQ. But a more valid question is whether the small difference in IQ matters, and whether it’s worth the (rather significant) compromises one has to take with other systems on size, bulk, lens selection and overall flexibility. For pixel peepers MFT<APS-C<FF<MFDB, but for those who take pictures it gets more complicated.
The E-M5 is larger than I would like, but the X-Pro 1 is a monster. It really isn’t all that much different than a K5 in size. What’s the point, other than having a Leica-look-alike?
this -> Nikon D3100 is 79% (33.1 mm) thicker than Olympus OM-D E-M5.
The D3100 is bigger, no doubt and when said in % sounds like a lot, i.e. huge 79%… but alternatively I could say:
Nikon D3100 is 2% (3 mm) wider and 7% (6.4 mm) taller than Olympus OM-D E-M5, or Nikon D3100 [505 g] weighs 105 grams more than Olympus OM-D E-M5 [400 g].
Having used both DSLR and rangefinder digital cameras, I can honestly say the MFT system is far, far smaller than any DLSR including the Oly FT DSLRS. The lightness makes a world of difference for me.
I use only primes, so the kit lens does not even matter, but even then, the kit lenses are very small.
I was carrying around the FL-36R for a while and even being a small flash, relative to the ones that take 4 AA batteries – FL-50, it is way too big for the MFT cameras and lenses, which are just so much smaller. On a DSLR the flash was ok, but I’m just tired of it now. This is why I ordered the FL-300R the other day, it bounces and is a fraction of the size of the FL-36R -very comparable to the difference of the typical DSLR to MFT. Except, while the flash is probably slower, the MFT cameras are actually quite fast.
I have the OM-D on pre-order from B&H and will pair it with my 50 mm macro, and will probably keep my EPL-2 with the 20 mm attached. (May also get the new 17.5 mm Cosina as I’ve really become fascinated with manually focusing all of my lenses – the results are much more memorable.)
The Fuji X-Pro1 may seem like the best camera, but remember it is nearly twice the price (body only) and is quite a bit larger and heavier (which to me is the whole point of these cameras, if not just get a full-frame), and Fuji does not have the lens repertoire that MFT does.
This kind of measurements are pointless. Why not look at the volume of the camera, which will show you how much space it actually takes? The D3100 is twice as big as the E5, while having less controls and a fixed screen. Also, 100 grams less just for the body is a big deal.
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/nikond3100/Images/allroundview.jpg
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/olympusEM5/images/allroundview.jpg
Claudio to really compare the two formats you need to take photos with both systems yourself and not just look at samples on a website. Reality is if you take a photo with say a EPL-1 with a decent lens on it at 200 iso and compare it with a D5000 or a D90 which I have done, the EPL-1 will show more fine detail because of the weaker AA filter.
You start cropping a photo to say fit onto a 10×8 piece of paper and most of the benefits you think you have with the Nikon sized sensor have just been cropped off. The difference at this point is much smaller and from there it is all down to how good the lens is, how weak the AA filter is and how good the photographer is at making sure the photo is correctly focused, exposed and held still enough to stop visible camera shake in the photo.
There are quite a few pro photographers out there using 43 and if you were looking a print unless you were told you would not have a clue if the were shot on a 43 camera or a D7000.
It’s only at high iso where there is a difference and that advantage can go straight out the window if the photographer does not get everything right. How large that difference is now with this new camera is hard to tell until we see more Raw samples but going by these Raw samples when you open them up in Raw Photo Processor Olympus have made quite a jump forward. The Jpeg file sample have a huge amount of noise reduction going on and don’t show what the camera is capable of. Also at the moment these samples are not taken with a top end lens.
Great comments Stu5, you obviously know your stuff! Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience about some aspects that we normally tend to overlook, much appreciated.
I agree that we should relax a bit and take the image samples that are surfacing with a grain of salt.
Cheers!
So what? It’s the size of the SYSTEM that matters. NEX cameras are smaller, but with EQUIVALENT FOCAL LENGTH lenses they are significantly bigger and heavier than MFT. No pancakes, either. It’s even worse with APS-C and the Fuji.
waste of time
I would rather not have the pyramid, but I think it makes the height misleading… look at the camera versus the xpro1. It will take up much less room in a bag and same goes with the 3100.
Thanks Jason for your kind and detailed reply and sharing your experience.
Re: Kit lens, I agree with you, not my interest either, however, for those that are thinking about getting the kit lens, I just wanted to point out that, based on what I have seen, it’ s not a “small” lens. An option, the LUMIX G X VARIO PZ 14-42mm / F3.5-5.6 ASPH appears to have some serious issues according to dpreview’s on the Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 (you can read it here http://tinyurl.com/6vv6279)
I agree with your other points and if Oly turns out it can produce “decent” IQ it will be a serious contender. The 50mm combo you mention would be about $1,500 for the Oly vs. $2,300 for the Fuji, a substantial difference if money is an issue. But if you plan on getting all three Fuji primes and similar on the Oly side that difference shrinks to about $500 ($3000 for Oly vs. $3,500 for Fuji).
Size and weight are, in my books, serious considerations, but within reason, second to IQ (http://tinyurl.com/8xvj67l). The weight difference between Fuji X-Pro and OM-D is negligible (only about 50 gms.) and size is so minor that I am not too concerned.
@Claudio, understandable that you want the Fuji, it is a better looking camera I think and the very professional layout is nice too.
I will probably always be biased towards Olympus because of the 50 mm macro, the colors, jpegs and built-in IS – all things that really help me produce great close-ups with quick turnaround time. Yes, some of my images are published in magazines, but mostly I post to the web so jpegs and a slightly smaller sensor do not bother me…
As I said above, I only use primes, and this really makes a big difference and IMHO more than makes up for any weaknesses in the sensor department. I actually like the grain the the EPL-2 produces at ISO 1600 (which is why I’m keeping it). That said, it appears the OM-D has seriously improved its ISO range and I think can produce the same quality as the EPL-2’s ISO 200- 400 at its ISO 800-1600. I could be a little off, but the new ISO range is a big improvement and the 5 axis- stability sounds like it will make my macro shooting even better….
If I didn’t have to shoot macro, I would strongly consider investing in a D800 or Fuji XPro1.
Thanks Jason. Again you bring up some very good points to consider. Dollar for dollar and features I this point, despite the fact that the OM-D is very appealing, I am leaning towards the Fuji, but like I’ve said, I will definitely wait until better and more complete reviews are available as well as trusted opinions from knowledgeable folks like you share once they’ve had a chance to field test the OM-D.
Cheers!
Have you compared the size and weight of the lenses? Note that you are also making pretty big assumptions about IQ for an unproven and yet-to-be-released system to one established system with very good lenses which are already available in stores. Who knows how long it will take for Fuji lenses to come in stock.
You have to take the weight of the lenses in consideration too. Mft has really small and light lenses. the bigger sensors calls for bigger lenses.
Claudio,
Heres some math: X1Pro with 3 primes is $3550. OMD with the 12, 25, & 45 at current Amazon prices is $2780.
It’s a $770 price difference. You can get a 45-200, 17, and a flash for that much. Or a 100-300 and a 7.5mm fisheye. Or some photography classes.
Now consider this. The wides are 2.0, the normals are 1.4, but on the 90s, the Fuji is f2.4 and the Oly is 1.8, and you get IS.
Also consider you can get a “budget” kit with the OM-D with a Pany 14, 20, and the Oly 45 for $2040. Thats $260 LESS that an X1Pro and one lens! $1510 less than a X1Pro kit.
So, it’s cool if you like the X1Pro. It’s great camera, but the price difference is not “only about $500”. It’s $770. And you have much more affordable options with the OM-D that make the difference “only about $1500”.
Thanks for the math recap. I had already done it and stand by my numbers as of today based on mail order listed prices. But to clarify…
If you get the OM-D body only and the m.zuiko 12mm and 45mm along with Pana/Leica 25mm primes, yes, the difference is about $700, but if you get the OM-D with the kit lens option the difference is about $500 (some folks might want the kit lens for what it is and/or to match the cams weather sealed feature; I personally think I would pass on the kit lens.)
You really don’t get it, do you?
“IMO, MFTs still need some more R&D and maturing time to even come close to DSLR IQ.”
Try to use dpreviews image quality comparison tool, and you’ll see that this claim is just nonsense. Up to ISO 800 at least you will see hardly any difference, if you compare e.g. the GH2 to the D7000. At the highest ISO values it’s a difference of 1 stop at most, and that’s it. Nothing earth-shattering!
BTW, I use Nikon FX, DX, and m43, so I know what I’m talking about.
I have and also looked at DxO’s reviews. The APS-C IQ is far superior to any existing MFTs today. That is a fact.
Bullshit!
I understand, it can be very frustrating and those DxO guys are so mean sometimes … 😉 http://tinyurl.com/7m4u7nv
Now that I go back and read all of your recent E-M5-related posts, it is clear that you are just bitter that the Oly has been so well received.
.
I think we’ll talk again once you have actually used the cameras you’re dreaming of 🙂
Hopefully a nice OM-D, perhaps this model or maybe a second or third generation.
It is a beautiful camera though, no question about that and has many appealing features. But for now I hold my final decision on this OM-D as the jury is still out and I will wait for the serious reviews.
Cheers!
MFTs are comparable to APS-C cameras from a few years back. I and millions of others used APS-C cameras back then and had no problems creating beatiful images. Just because. Upgrade-itis is fun and all, but one has to prioritize – is that 1% more IQ worth missed images due to a bulky system left in the car?
Also, DxO measures only some aspects of IQ. Sharpness is an important one they don’t. My E-PL1 with its weak AA filter produces better sharpness than 550D.
To each their own, for sure, but then why are you surprised about the price when you don’t take into account the features of each camera? They maybe fluff for you but they are there – dials, weather proofing, size, etc.
If you just care about the sensor, buy a NEX5n.
Good point. In my case weather sealed is a big plus… but whether I like them or not, the other features are part of the offer and Oly needs to get paid… I still think the camera is overpriced though.
It’s not only the sensor, I just use APS-C as a benchmark, although, undoubtedly a good sensor correlates very high to good IQ.
NEX 5n? hmmm… somehow, the Sony’s just don’t appeal to me at all, despite all the technical hoopla. In that case I much rather go for a Leica X1 for instance.
Cheers!
Dear friends, I’m on summer vacations (southern hemisphere) in a remote location in the Chilean Andes. My phone Internet bandwidth is close to 1 bit per second, when I get connection. I voted amazing based on the opinion of all the pessimist within you. I can’t believe what I’m hearing. Thanks for the discussion, text is the only thing I can see here.
Hola MGuarini. En que parte de la cordillera estas? Cualquier cosa en que te pueda ayudar no dudes en contactarme. Un abrazo por Chile. Chau!
> Merci Beaucoup Focus Numerique! Finally we can download the original RAW files form the new Olympus E-M5 (Click here to visit the site).
Uhm… Hard to compare. The high ISO test images were made only in the high ISOs. Without the ISO 200 reference, there is nothing to compare them to.
@Focus Numerique: very, very nice portraits!
Looking at a couple of the ISO 200 images, the RAW histograms at around zero exposure have very tight histograms (maybe only around 1 ADU standard deviation). That would imply that Olympus really got their act together in the A/D conversion stage and that the DxO-style DR could be pushing 12 bits. That would be a huge improvement over the old sensor.
A question, how looks the resolution at ISO 200? Is the AA filter weak?
Am I right in thinking these are 16 bit?
12-bit
16 bit is marketing – there’s no photographic portable camera outside of military (if even there) in existence which has 16 bits of valid data. This includes MFDBs worth as much as a BMW.
Not one comment on the manual? What is the difference between the two top HD modes?
Full HD Fine
1920×1080
59.94i *2

Full HD Normal
1920×1080
59.94i *2
Probably the bit rate. IIRC Fine would be 20Mbps, and Normal would be about 17 Mbps.
For filming buffs (I’m not one), a High 30Mbps option would be very desirable (i.e., lots more detail in any moving picture).
I wonder if the hacking community will take any interest in the OM-D and expand video features, ie Panny GH2….
Sure aps-c is superior if only the sensor matters for iq……….
Be careful with the high ISP assessments. Other than the dark black hallway lobby shots everything else high ISP is pretty much done in good enough light. That’s hardly a high ISo test at that point. Looking at the hallway shots…
I assume they stopped down, so light became less.
I think the the 6400 hall shot was 1/15th at f/3.5 ISO6400
Yes as I pointed out the hall shot is low light
Raist continues to be one of life’s a**holes.
he can be like that who cares. The thing is he is completely wrong this time, something that will become more evident within a few days. His problem is going to be reconciling how he vilified a number of people for their enthusiasm, so it will be an interesting study on the basis of his standards.
Te funny because I am still seeing a step forward but I will keep it in mind to see if you have the half decency to apologize
I’m not sure why you still care about Olympus.
Because I am an Olympus customer and I want them to do well? Because most of my photography work is still 4/3rds? Not that I have to explain myself or anything.
You’ve poisoned DPreview for so long. I just don’t understand your motivation and wondered over the years, so I thought I finally ask as you do the same here.
No, I have not. I have always called things as I see them. Nobody criticized me for a glowing 420 review. And the e-620 tone curve was something that when you actually read it, was to make the best of the tool and ask for a feature request to Olympus. Step by step so all can verify. Got from many childish insults when I was cordially scientific and even encouraged people to not believe me and do it for themselves. That alone says a lot of the “victims of the poison.”
Some people don’t like to read things that seem “negative” yet seem totally willing to drink happy sounding Koolaid. That isn’t my problem.
dpreview 1022 is not supposed to be a fanclub, but a forum to exchange tips and ideas on using the equipment. Accurate assessment of it goes with its purpose.
There are many who appreciate this, doesn’t sound like you are one of them. Then skip the stuff you aren’t interested in.
Ricardo (Raist 3d):
If you “want [Olympus] to do well” why do you do things like send me a private message on DP Review, gloating over Olympus’ financial scandal? Why does everyone here who had previous contact with you know that you’re a rather pathetic, pompous and self-absorbed troll?
Sometimes I wonder if you’re being paid, but even though the attendant lack of ethics wouldn’t be a problem for you, most half-way awake marketing people who engage in such things would realize very quickly that you’re overwhelmingly annoying, and your efforts simply backfire.
Why don’t you take up another hobby, like skydiving or bungee jumping?
I didn’t send a message to you because I want Olympus to do bad. I sent it *specifically to you* because you tried to make fun of me when Pentax got sold to Ricoh, saying it was “my karma” so I thought it was funny and worth pointing out *to you and to you only because of what you said* what was going on with Olympus.
This wasn’t because I was happy to see Olympus going through that, but because of the idiotic behavior you exhibited earlier and since you called it Karma I thought it was ironic that in your attempt at an insult earlier this was going on.
That’s why I sent that to you and you only. Because of *your behavior earlier* I thought it was ironic.
Or did you forget you did this?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=38801178
So easy to take things out of context eh?
Ricardo/Raist got so used to being the “victim” in life that he needs to keep living out his self-perceived martyrdom on as many internet forums as he can possibly annoy.
Still fighting your childhood bullies Ricardo?
Nice story. Doesn’t have todo much with the em5 sensor characteristics though. Seems like you are projecting
gay mofu shut up….
just knock it off Ricardo, it’s tiring to hear you constantly saying negative things about Oly. Just let it go, buy Panasonic or Sony or whatever, and start bugging their forum or something.
cheers
Did you miss when I defended the “hump”, the price and that I think this camera will sell out? Or you just count “the hits” of what’s convenient for you to hear to acknowledge your preconceptions?
Not that I have to explain myself or you can tell me what you do. You certainly can skip and ignore. You are empowered.
Yes, I can be a gay mofu. Thanks for the compliment 🙂
There is still no excuse for wallowing in your victimization, Ricardo. It’s pretty obvious that you don’t know how, and don’t believe, that you can relate to others on the basis of sharing and mutual respect.
You’ve learned to believe what the people who bullied you told you, and all of your trolling makes it painfully obvious, rather than disguising it.
Stop playing the victim/martyr and move forward.
Given I was respectfully talking about a photographic tool and not people, please point out specifically where I was disrespectful where I don’t know how to share with mutual respect?
Look at your first reply, all crying and hurt and getting personal from the first post
I was commenting on the camera and it’s analysis and some people came back with personal attacks. That certainly includes you out of the blue all hurt because of a private post I sent you that you deservedly created the situation yourself
Then you try to accuse me I playing victim. :-\
I’ll respond briefly to one of your earlier posts, which doesn’t have a reply button.
Ricardo, your many hundreds of posts that consistently earn the enmity and contempt of your fellow photographers on this and other forums ultimately have very little to do with photography or sensors.
When you engage in such obsessive and uniformly antagonistic behavior over years, it speaks volumes about YOU and your problems, not the photographic window dressing you try to give it.
Unfortunately, you trolling…it’s the only way you allow yourself to feel “significant”.
Isn’t there enough people saying good things about Olympus? Why does one person’s dissenting comments cause you so much pain?
I know some people don’t like truth. I don’t care. Btw I still do think the em5 is fantastic so not sure what the problem is now
Trying to re enter the fold eh raist? You have obsessively trolled Olympus forums for years, now your cornered you pretend to be a champion of Olympus! You know what you are and why you make these nasty attacks.
How long have you been at the Olympus forum at dpreview? I have been there since the e-300 days. You should look my posts and see if I am “pretending anything.” IT’s all there in the history, please do not believe me.
I am not cornered at all, lol. I am again, calling it as I see it.
PS: Nor do I need your limited assessment or “permission” of what constitutes “being in the fold” or whatever related concept. These to me are photographic tools. That comes first. If I didn’t think that way before I would have never bought an e-300.
You guys sure seem to be the insecure and infantile ones. I can’t believe the how you are so threatened and intimidated by one man’s complaints, as if you are afraid the world will find out how true they are. What kind of sheep are you confessing to being anyway by referring to Olympus as a fold. You paid your hard earned money to a company to serve it? Seems kind of backward to me. Although, as I pointed out elsewhere, the joke seems to be on you guys and not on Ricardo, who’s complaints seem to have been met in the EM5. Who had the nerve to complain about the sensor in the E-5? Yep, Ricardo, all the while you were busy kissing up to Olympus as if they paid YOU to take home their equipment. Now when Olympus actually does put in a new sensor, you are the butt kissing sheep trying to jump on a bandwagon that you had no part of before. Hmmmm. These nasty attacks! How dramatic.
Some people don’t like to see things as they are. Some do.
He’d be hard pressed to compete with you. I don’t recall him having the audacity to call you one. The a$$4ole would be the one thinking that it is appropriate to call someone that based on their opinion of something inanimate.
Hodges the poodle arrives, rolling on his back before his master Ricardo.
I realize that someone who has a brain that independently expresses a similar opinion about some things can be intimidating so it’s easier to write them off with an ad hominem attack.
Your comments are honest and insightful; which is like ammunition for close-minded fanboys.
Since you know me well enough to call me a poodle, don’t mind if I roll your mother on her back again tonight, son.
Hey boy you wouldn’t know what to do you haven’t progressed from sucking your mommy’s teats yet. We can see what you are. Every school had a wet creep like you lapping around teachers feet.
Be careful how you speak to your father, son.
Uh, Dudley, why don’t you press the keys down really hard so I’ll be even more scared, hurt and upset. If you can’t figure it out for yourself, you’re not really hurting me, I’m just pretending so that you’ll stop making a fool of yourself. I’m leaving you on autopilot now so feel free to continue by yourself, just like you do when you go out on dates. B-bye now.
Pretty much gx1 performance. The ISo 6400 dark hallway looks ok- lots of detail gone. The black looks better than what I remember a pen do but lots of detail and range gone
The iso 200 image oftge ducks Nd other birds by the pond has maybe a notch more detail in the blacks than pens but it does show color chroma noise (xnconvert)… And this is ISo 200! Not coninced this is anything other than a gx1 class sensor.
High ISO I tend to agree (GX1/G3 level). From looking at the low ISO RAW histograms though, I suspect that the DxO-style DR may be better, perhaps even pushing 12 bits. I wish people like FN who get early cameras would shoot some reference black frames.
David, which raw converter are you using? I tried xnconverter and it seemed to work but I have grown skeptical of the conversion. It just did it too fast and makes me wonder if it just extracted the embedded JPEG.
Dcraw will convert the files. I just added a little hack to dump out the RAW data so that I could look at histograms in Matlab. I was only looking for some estimate of read noise, not trying to get real pictures.
Thanks for the heads up, how could I forget about dcraw 😉
Matlab? You are hardcore! 😉
well ricardo, remember NR in jpeg is adjustable. Adequate analysis of the RAWs (which is what you are not doing) suggests it is some way in front of Gh2 sensor (perhaps half to one stop), and Gx1 doesnt approach it.
I think you might have to apologise to a few people after this, in particular Am …
Buzzt wrong! I am looking at raws when making that comment. Funny you try to
tell me this when it is me who usually points out the error to analyze a sensor by jpegs!
Really you are past idiot an moron at this point. You keep doing false comments on me as if they had any base. The only two times you brought a valid point I acknowledged it to you. You never admit anything.
I’ll day this: I want to see more raw converters tested so I will check with some other converters as I am not 100% sure te one I am using is really converting the image properly.
Also keep in mind: a JPEG shouldn’t be showing chroma noise that way even with noise reduction “off” at ISO 200 anyway
well its funny you should get it so wrong then, take a look at what KenW says
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=40625721
does that sound like a GX1 sensor to you?
really you don’t have a straight analysis worth listening to, you’ve been making a jerk of yourself dragging this camera down for weeks and we both know the knives will be out over at dpr. All you gotta do is make some subthread apology someplace and Im sure everything will be cool. Not to do so, in a community sense, might go pretty badly.
wise up man, just sayin
First- acknowledge that you were wrong- you were accusing me of referring to JPEGS and I wasn’t. Though if you look carefully I am giving the EM5 the benefit of the doubt in questioning the results from xnConv.
2nd, how exactly have I been “draggin down the EM5” for weeks? WTF. I have posted I think this is the best camera Olympus has made in a long time. I think it will be a huge success. I have spoken against critique of the hump and price. How exactly have I been “dragging down this camera for weeks?” That’s a good one.
As for apology I don’t understand where you get the remote idea I owe any kind of apology. Apology for what?
As for analysis I have given my analysis before even with step by step instructions people can go and verify for themselves with the e-620 and yet people like you wouldn’t still see it and resort to personal attacks.
You are not everyone, and you certainly have shown it’s just not worth arguing with you.
“Pretty much gx1 performance. The ISo 6400 dark hallway looks ok- lots of detail gone.”
is all about jpegs
“2nd, how exactly have I been “draggin down the EM5″ for weeks? WTF. ”
you simply wont shut up about it, you’ve been all over the internet for weeks criticising people for their expectations, now its going to turn out you were wrong, what of your criticism then, will you critique yorself ?
“As for apology I don’t understand where you get the remote idea I owe any kind of apology. Apology for what?”
you were all over Am for 2 days continuously harassing and baiting, now its going to turn out you are wrong, in such cases more usually real people own up to that and try to undo the damage they’ve done. Of course my opinion of you is such that you will not do that. ALL show, no go.
“as for analysis I have given my analysis before even with step by step instructions people can go and verify for themselves with the e-620 and yet people like you wouldn’t still see it and resort to personal attacks.”
wtf do you keep bringing that up, I had NOTHING to do with that, NOTHING to do with your wedding shoot that got roundly trashed, it has NOTHING to do with me. I have no idea what went on between you and the people in those threads, but I do know you have had it in for 1022 ever since. Then there was your step by step analysis of DxO and your claims of exaggerated ISO, we all know how that worked out
“You are not everyone, and you certainly have shown it’s just not worth arguing with you”
you argue with EVERYONE, ALL the time, take a look around at some of the comments about you right here, wtf is wrong with you are you blind?
“is all about jpegs”
Once again, I made it quite clear I wasn’t looking at the JPEGS.
“you simply wont shut up about it, you’ve been all over the internet for weeks criticising people for their expectations, now its going to turn out you were wrong, what of your criticism then, will you critique yorself ?”
Wait hold on. So if I say the Em5 is going to be a great success for Olympus, I actually mention that the so called “hump” is a non issue, that the camera is small and probably darn fast to operate and nice ergonomics and a great price.. if I say this too, that’s like bad? WTF.
As for expectations, what exactly about to turn wrong? You mean Almaric’s hybrid view finder that never happened? The better than GH2 video? The fast 4/3rd lens auto focus? Hey, if I get one wrong now, seems like I am doing pretty darn good still.
“you were all over Am for 2 days continuously harassing and baiting, now its going to turn out you are wrong, in such cases more usually real people own up to that and try to undo the damage they’ve done. Of course my opinion of you is such that you will not do that. ALL show, no go.”
This is what happens when people take things out of context. Almaric was claiming a hybrid view finder that never happened. Maybe you missed it but it was Almaric, *not me* who interjected me on a thread at dpreview. Did you miss that? So when the hybrid view finder prophecy he had declared- on which he was trying to make fun of me btw- didn’t happen, I merely pointed it out- you know. Only fair no?
This is why I owe him zero apology. Apparently you think it was me who started it missing it completely, that it was him who interjected one of my threads out of the blue and tried to insult me. But you don’t say anything on that, do you?
“wtf do you keep bringing that up, I had NOTHING to do with that, NOTHING to do with your wedding shoot that got roundly trashed, it has NOTHING to do with me. I have no idea what went on between you and the people in those threads, but I do know you have had it in for 1022 ever since. Then there was your step by step analysis of DxO and your claims of exaggerated ISO, we all know how that worked out”
I keep bringing that up because part of what I said there corroborates what Dxo says. I keep bringing it up because it talks about the tone shift and how the ISO shifted vs the previous Olympus cameras. And most importantly, it was a great example of how people took one completely neutral finding that would have shown how to make the best of the tool they have and completely decided it was “negative” so insulted me left and right. Not everyone did, some thanked me, but a select group of 1022- with pretty much the same mentality as yours- did.
“you argue with EVERYONE, ALL the time, take a look around at some of the comments about you right here, wtf is wrong with you are you blind?”
I don’t so, sorry. And I have posted clearly my own threads at dpreview quite positive about the EM5. A few people like you all can do is “just wait until it goes bad” or whatever, without any base whatsoever to post such things.
You need to grow up. Sorry, deal.
Oh btw, I checked the Ken link at dpreview, thanks. He makes it clear he is not sure of his analysis, and I applaud him for it. I pointed out where I think the error is.
So I wonder if you will apologize when the time comes Riley, but you can start apologizing by making the wrong assumption I was looking at mere JPEG files. Though again, you really shouldn’t have any color chroma noise at ISO 200, right?
My simple reply, I’m not going to belabour yet another forum with arguments formed over such obvious miscalculation as your own.
For those that want to follow your nonsense to its ultimate conclusion they can read my reply here.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=40633469
and that as they say, is an end to the matter
Your simple reply is quoting someone else that you don’t quite understand. But that said between anyone at dpreview and the engineers that build a commercial raw converter at dxo, I certainly believe dxo is the authority.
But like I said I explored the exposure shift myself and most importantly I gave step by step instructions so everyone including you can replicate.
Yes, you can (and should) actually use your brain
Raist, I am also sick of you as well. You are an ass on DPreview and have been for years. You are a very unhappy person, and make others very unhappy as well! Please, as I have asked for years, go away.
Then simple- don’t read me. Really. As for dpreview you are your self appointed victim. you don’t need to read. Where where you when I wrote the great 420 review?
You love playing the self-righteous martyr don’t you Raist?
The overwhelmingly negative response here and on DP Review to your many years of unrelenting trolling seems to only reinforce your delusional belief that you are a crusader for truth.
Too bad for you that we’re far less delusional than you. We see you for what you are — a deeply unhappy person who desperately and unrelentingly craves attention through annoying others.
Lol. I don’t. I was commenting on the camera and it’s analysis and some people came back with personal attacks. That certainly includes you out of the blue all hurt because of a private post I sent you that you deservedly created the situation yourself
Then you try to accuse me I playing victim. :-\
It’s terrible !! I can’t open the raw files beacause I’m not at home and I read people saying:
– Amazing !!! low noise, great DR, Sony sensor, fuji sensor etc…
– Average G3/GX1, same noise, panasonic sensor, etc…
– Bad, crappy, bad noise, soft, m43 is shit, APSC is the only way, etc…
Is everybody looking at the same pics ??? Are there some fanboys, some pessimistics ? Are you all crazy ?? 😀
I don’t know what to think…
Well, the comments in first category are all from Oly employees. No surprise there. The second category of comments are all from Panny employees. No surprise there. And the third category of comments are all from Canon and Nikon employees. So it all makes perfect sense! 🙂
😀
LoooL.. Third category contains Sony employees too 😛 but not sure about Nikon as they like microscopic sensors..
All Sony employees only starting and try make better. 🙂
In which category wouold you put Raist as an employee?
I bet no company wanted to hire him anyway, except pehaps the Barnum Circus 😀
Keep going. You have been wrong more than many times, so one more, doesn’t add much to the track record 🙂
Please do again that part were you step into the puddle looking elsewhere with starry eyes 🙂
You are getting hit today. 🙂
Raist is a big olympus fan guys. He is more glass half empty and wants to be proven wrong because olympus has burned us in the past.
Trust me he is a fan of this camera, panny sensor or not.
I don’t believe it is a panny sensor but I’m also a glass half full of koolaid kind of guy.
Whatever it is it looks fantastic and almost renders the need for a giant brick camera useless.
Thanks ;-). It’s difficult to be dating all these men at the same time ;-). I think I am more of a glass as full as it really is guy 😉
Ricardo:
You’re more of a vampire sapping other people’s good will. You actually believe you are so much more smarter than the rest of the world….
Judging by most of the responses here, people know you very, very well. And we’re really tired of watching inject your personal misery and pessimism into every Olympus and 4/3s forum year after year.
“You’re more of a vampire sapping other people’s good will. You actually believe you are so much more smarter than the rest of the world….
Judging by most of the responses here, people know you very, very well. And we’re really tired of watching inject your personal misery and pessimism into every Olympus and 4/3s forum year after year.”
This one is very reach. How did some people posting here right now used to refer to 43rumors.. wasn’t it 43rds humor? And who was one of the first to defend their track record? Oh yeah, that was me. Don’t believe me? It’s right there on the history of dpreview threads. Let me know if you want me to dig it up for you.
So that sort of makes your point rather umm baseless me thinks?
5 million people singing Olympus praises and one person stops you from enjoying your gear and the forum. Wow.
Hodges:
Appreciate the acknowledgement that Ricardo + Hodges = “one person”.
I didn’t want to mention this because most people wouldn’t believe me, but Raist is actually employee #15 at Lytro. His job is to sew the seeds of discontent into every other camera fan base, and judging by this forum he’s doing his job well. At Lytro, they simply want all other companies to make way for customers to buy upcoming Lytro cameras. No surprise there.
So Raist does his job by providing a counter to every new hotness in cameras. When it’s a hot Fuji, Raist is all about Oly, Panny, Canon, and Nikon. When it’s a hot Oly, it’s all about Fuji, Nikon, et al.. The game just goes on and on like that — while naive consumers (that’s us) hold our pocketbooks in check. And our pocketbooks are what Lytro has its sights on, and that’s why Raist is so good at flip-flopping from one camera to the next, and back again — giving us all consumer brain freeze… until the Lytro comes out and we all hightail it to Lytro cameras, spilling our hard-earned dollars into their piggy bank.
So, be nice to Raist. He’s just doing his job. 🙂 [Raist, did I earn my Lytro discount coupon yet? ;-)]
So once again, it all makes perfect sense! 🙂
Bravo, Occam. From now on I will be’ afraid, very afraid’ of Lytro and employee #15. 😀
very interesting match going on here.
Now atleast the teams are playing!!!
Your explanation makes far more sense than all the others combined and square, even if it’s still not true 🙂
Only a little perplexed by the number of login names you are carrying around.
Does it change by the subject you discuss or the person/s you are discussing?
are you still ill or already braindead?
The Barnum Circus rejected Raist’s job application because they already have too many clowns. Also, Raist’s pseudo-intellectual and self-righteous pronouncements simply aren’t informative or entertaining.
I am sure that’s exactly what happened and your attempt at a personal attack sure has to do with the discussion of the em5 camera characteristics. Did I get that one right? 🙂
Ricardo:
You’re actually getting closer to your problem now.
Most of us don’t have problems with considered and topical opinions, negative or positive. I personally shoot far more with Sony cameras than my E-P3 right now.
We do have a problem with people like you who litter our forums with many, many hundreds of posts spewing forth your personal unhappiness and antagonism to others, over many years.
You keep trying to pretend you’re talking about photography, but,more than anything else your incredibly numerous posts show how desperately you crave the attention you get by annoying and inflaming others.
More projection it seems. I was talking about aspects of the camera under discussion and some people like you came back with personal attacks. Never mind your false accusation that you started with my personal message to you
You are the one bringin lg this up, not me. When I clarify the misinformation about me you brought up then you accuse me of playing victim (?!) or craving attention (!!!).
Let’s stick to discussing the camera. I didnt start with personal attacks- you did. Take responsibility for your actions.
Since it keeps eluding you, let me try to make it clearer by analogy:
You live in a community of photographers and you keep telling everyone that you only want to spread your love of “truth” in photography
But, for years, you pick dozens of fights each day with your neighbors. You lead your dog to poop to on our front steps several times every day, and refuse to stop or clean up. Instead, you do it more and more.
During all of this you are oblivious to our objections and your overtly anti-social behavior. Instead, you keep telling us that we — not you — don’t “get it”. You repeat this mantra over and over again while going out of your way to find and antagonize everyone you can.
This goes on many times each day for years and years and you apparently have nothing better to do than instigate fights with us under the guise of “teaching” us about “truth” in photography. Out of thousands of such fights and incidents over the years, you have only a couple of good things to say.
You stopped really talking about “photography” long ago. You’re just a troublemaker misusing photography forums to project your personal problems that you won’t face up to.
You really don’t believe what you just wrote do you? I mean really, this guys opinions keep you awake at night? Is there really poop on your steps? Isn’t the least bit ironic that one of the things that make the EM5 so desirable is the new sensor? Isn’t that the main thing that Ricardo has been complaining about? I guess he’s really stupid for wanting one, but no one is stupid for getting what it seemed only Ricardo was asking for…
I think what keeps eluding you is that I am making camera observations- discussions like everyone else and you come in with personal attacks.
You don’t even owe to your own personal attack on “Karma” that ended up biting you apparently and now you are hurt and crying.
Seriously it’s that obvious. I was talking about the camera and you came in with personal insults. Not much to see into it than that.
As for photography, I have been posting photographs all along at dpreview. Where are yours? Maybe you have an awesome gallery somewhere.
Ricardo/Raist:
We’re not stupid or naive. You don’t cease being one of the most profligate trolls around simply because you couch your trolling in photographic terms, and keep insisting that you’re not a troll.
Ministries of propaganda throughout the world use the same smoke and mirrors you do. Most of us realize that your self-serving self-descriptions don’t matter.
What matters is what we’ve seen you do consistently over many, many thousands of posts throughout the years — disrupting and inflaming forums in order to feed your addiction for attention.
The fact that you have for years been compulsively churning out enormous amounts of posts that consistently annoy people, and poison the atmosphere, doesn’t reveal you to be confident, knowledgeable, constructive or socially adept, like you want us to believe.
Instead, your obsessive craving for attention by destructive means shows just the opposite.
Given how thoroughly and consistently you’ve shown who you are, we’re not going to take what you say about photography seriously.
Sadly, you’re made yourself into a joke and (with the exception of your alt or poodle, Hodges) the uniform subject of contempt, Ricardo.
“Sadly, you’re made yourself into a joke and (with the exception of your alt or poodle, Hodges) the uniform subject of contempt, Ricardo.”
You sure write a lot that has nothing to do with talking about the camera. Sure that Karma private message hurt you a lot, which you know, you made of your own doing because you are the one who started that.
It’s not the “we are not fooled” as much as “I am trying to hurt Ricardo with whatever I can find, because he hurt me.”
Let’s talk about the camera, which is what I was doing. I mean it’s rather obvious you are resorting to personal attacks like some others without much base. The stuff I write as I said, I even tell people to verify for themselves and not believe me, on many subjects. Not sure how much more reasonable/objective can you get.
But from camera discussion to personal insults. It’s rather obvious Tony. 🙂
Since ACR and Lightroom won’t open these raw files, a lot of us are having to look at them using converters that aren’t as familiar to us. That makes it hard to factor out what differences are caused by the camera and what differences are caused by an unfamiliar conversion process, which may explain some of the variability in the responses.
+1 Very good point.
Well, that and the fact that some of us see what we want to see, and the rest of us see what we don’t want to see.
I want to see industry best or better sensor. I’m not seeing it. 😐
We cant say this is the indusrty best sensor but there is no doubt it is a BETTER sensor.
I hope you are seeing it.
i’d say a small step forward for 4/3 sensor, at least they didn’t stay still this time, fair enough for this class of camera, no match for bigger sensors though
just try to imagine a 64 MP FF dslr with the current processing algorythms, thats how the E-M5 output performs.
you look like a frightende gay opposum on your image… someone told you that before?
Warning, we have a twelve year old on board…
lol that made my day!
Wow, from looking at the manual, video recording on the EM-5 is really poor. 2gb file limit, 59.94i the only frame rate possible, frames off the sensor are “about 30fps” and may drop.
Possibly a deal breaker for me. Extremely disappointing in a camera I am otherwise very excited about.
On file size/recording length — stolen from someone discussing a similar case for a Canon camera:
“European Tax law applies 4.9% import duty on camcorders made outside of the EU, and they classify a camcorder as any digital camera that records 30 minutes or more of video at 800×600 pixels or higher and a frame rate of 23 or higher. The end consumer is not directly paying these duties as they are applied during import, but the cost is passed on to the consumer via the retail price. That would mean the SRP on the 7D would be about 66 Euros more (about $93USD) if this camera recorded even one second more of video. This may not seem like much but in this highly competitive market an extra 4.9% is a consideration for camera manufacturers”.
I had heard about the EU tariff issue before. I’m sure that’s a big part of the explanation, although of course it wouldn’t apply in the US and many other non-European countries.
I suspect that the second part of the issue is that many manufacturers’ cameras wouldn’t be able to record much past 30 minutes anyway because of sensor heating or some other technical issue. So they figure that there’s no value in paying extra for the EU camcorder tariff, or for the distribution complications of having different time limits in different markets, when it would add only a few more minutes to the camera’s maximum recording time.
Anyway, it makes me glad that Panasonic was willing to pony up and give my US-spec GH2 the capability to record continuously until the memory card is full. (Sure, it’s usually better video technique to record in shorter “takes” — but a lot of my video work is of performing arts events, and it’s awkward if your camera hits its time limit during a big dramatic moment!)
The fact that the E-M 5 has a time limit isn’t a deal-breaker for me, but it does mean that even if I buy one, I’ll be hanging onto my GH2 for video!
Just checked out the user manual… no improvement on the composition issue with manual focus.
All Oly would need to do is show a magnified *inside* the green zoom rectangle so you could focus while you still see the image in its entirety.
You do not need to see a huge area to focus on – you are done with focusing when some well-defined edges show up.
Or they could at least zoom out when the shutter is half-pressed.
Once this is implemented, I’d sell my E-PL2 and go for the E-M5.
Until then, I’ll keep my money.
I suspect that with the stabilized VF, magnified MF should be a bit easier. Still, focus peaking sounds like a good idea: I don’t personally know, though, not having ever used it.
Regardless, not having purchased a µ4/3’s camera yet, this one hits pretty much all of my checkboxes.
I expect the stabilized EVF making magnified focusing ALOT easier. Peaking can be very useful but it depends on your subject and style. For me its not accurate enough (yet)
It isn’t accurate enough for sure, but why omit it? It’s just software and people apparently do want it.
prob in a future firmware update ala Sony 🙂
Do that many people really want or care about peaking? I am happy with the current implementation and with the EVF stabilization it should only get easier to use.
Could be stockholm syndrome though 🙂
i am stockholmish too i guess
Bad news in manual i see:
You cannot shoot pictures or movies when the HDMI cable is connected.
🙁
Not possible use my monitor/tv as liveview for macros.
🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁
With Panasonic cameras is possible.
I do not understand this silly limitation of Olympus, more in “pro” camera
There has to be a way as olympus did that at a press realease for the camera when demo the is and and af. The link was a few posts back and u can see guys talking in japanese with liveview streaming to projecter behind him
There has to be a way as olympus did that at a press realease for the camera when demo the is and and af. The link was a few posts back and u can see guys talking in japanese with liveview streaming to projecter behind him.
I was very disappointed to read that too, it was the first thing I looked up in the manual. The GH2 has this option and for videomakers I think it would be a must. I’m guessing the press release was done with the regular video cable which can be live during recording, but only offers VGA resolution I believe.
Oh, I hope not… this is a deal breaker for me. While I don’t shoot macros, I do use the hdmi out as same time recording on my work’s GH2.
it seems videographers gettin even more demanding then photographers….well we live in a world now where its hard to be satisfied with the things we have.
They look good, but it is still inconclusive until a real comparison test of several competing cameras under controlled conditions. It isn’t that difficult to create some good-looking high ISO files using just about any camera today.
I only trust two types of tests: my own test (and everyone should trust his own test); and properly controlled comparative tests using the same shutter speed and aperture under the same realistic light condition. These are not one of them, although the fact that they do come in raw files makes them the best samples so far.
Bear in mind that Olympus has tried to make us believe that every new generation of their E series digital cameras made at least a full stop of the improvement over the previous one. Just think about it, it’s been at least five generations since the E-330, which was the only time a E series camera made a real one-stop improvement over the previous generation (E-1). I would say that E-M5 is probably finally an unashamed full stop improvement from the five-generation older E-330. By my standard, the usable high ISO for E-1 was 400, and for E-330 was 800. Before I see real controlled tests, I would conservatively say that for E-M5 is 1600 finally. If it goes up to 3200, I’d be elated.
My decision to buy the E-M5 seems to getting firmer and firmer.
As some might have noticed, alot of the raw files were prob intentionally underexposed, this to checkout how much correction can be applied to retrieve the shadow detail. I made a crop from one of the ISO 400 portraits of the “HOT” model. No processing has been done, except for the cropping and the +2 EV adjustment to show how the shadownoise looks. I think this is a pretty good result:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33496987@N08/6882282615/sizes/l/in/photostream/
Haha, you have got some hot models too!
That poor “hot” thing. Must be hot under them lights I see sweat in that crop. Nice work ulli btw
thankyou..Robert & MP 🙂
quiet impressing. imagine this camera and SHG lenses as a combo producing images better than the ones in the website, it’s gonna be fantastic. time to sell my e620 and save some money 🙂
High ISO’s look great, but I’m still seeing a lot of noise at base ISO.
Hoping that’s caused by the early firmware, cause I don’t think that’s acceptable.
I assume you noticed the noise after adjusting the EV as most samples are under exposed almost -2 EV. Imagine how a normal exposed raw file would look like without the need for cranking up/down the EV and you will be surprised.
Some comments of the women shots (those are at f1.8 …there are not many 85equiv lenses that are as sharp as this one at f1.8 and with so low amount of axial chromatic aberrations and without glow/ghosting)
– fantastic JPG colors in the brickwall and the transition to highlight is much better… skin colors are not too orange.. so very good white balance too.
In the high iso shots I see there are 2 big transitions: From iso 3200 to 6400 and from iso 12800 to 25600 (the biggest one).
From iso 3200 to 6400 you still get amazing blacks low grain in shadows and midtones but there is a loss in color saturation that should appear in raw files too. a little less dynamic range but the blacks aren´t affected.
From iso 12800 to 25600 you get a big difference… the blacks are now grey and they have low frequency noise appearing, the noise that is course or big in grain size(they dont appear at 12800 so it indicates good ) electronics); color saturation dropped noticeable to an almost black and white level and there is color noise that is not acceptable and I believe, even in raw, is not recoverable.
Those blacks are nothing like Panasonic had produced… it probably is the Fuji/Toshiba sensor.
This sensor looks to have one stop of improvement over Panasonic 12mp sensor at midtones and 2 stops in the shadows at High ISO…
Iso3200 has very good IQ (8.5 stops of screen DR according to DXO), iso 6400 looks to have 7.5 (8 stops in print.
Indoor sports (EV 7) needs minimum 1/500 f2.8 iso 3200 (1/1000 2.8 6400 for some); weddings (EV4) need 1/60 iso 3200 f2.8 (1/125 for people walking so on those iso 6400).
From seeing the jpg at 50% I believe they will make good IQ at A3 size at iso 6400 (covers and albums are mostly this size so if you are conservative you can go to iso3200… so if you have primes or don´t print albums but newspapers instead, you can use till iso 6400
I’m using faststone imageviewer (you can get it free and quickly as a portable app) and as far as I can see, this sensor kicks previous pens out of the water and really fights its way between GX1 and Fuji territory. when I read nitpickers complaining it doesn’t perform near the same level as the d800 I just go: WTF !? are these trolls serious ? C’MON. To expect more from MFT is ludicrous, this is already far beyond my expectations for this format. Between this and LR4 improved PP we’ll get more than enough flexibility
Samples not impressed at all. Images are even not close to fuji xpro1 samples. For some reason even iso 200 is noisy. Resolution of this samples is not better than what i get from my old gh1. I hope that it is preproduction firmware and bad lens.
I looked at the low-light samples with FastStone. Very impressive. For comparison, I brought in to the folder a low-light ISO 1600 jpeg sample from Imaging Resource’ review of Nex 7; — E-M5 is far better even at 3200.
I also see edge-to-edge sharpness at 12mm for the winter scene with the geese.
I am guessing you are looking at the JPEG files which have loads of noise reduction instead of the Raw files?
No, i am looking at current raw set. I am using raw therapee and i see that iq is not great. Of cause iso performance is best of m43, and skin tones are way better than my gh1, but overall quality is not great. Even older EM5 jpegs (killed by denoiser) was better than this raw set. Why so noisy?
I think that the problem is coming from the lens. And from the act that the weather was not clear. The 45mm shots look better. But I don’t think I’ll buy the 152-50mm.
1000:s of people all over the Internet think that these pictures are fantastic. You are quite alone to not to be impressed. Perhaps yuo should see an eye doctor, the noise you see can be in your eyes.
@ Admin http://pen-and-tell.blogspot.com/2012/02/wackeldackel.html
Funny videos with art filter, and stabilizers seems to work 🙂
http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Olympus-E-M5-CP+.jpg
That lens is compensating for something 😉
the video has been taken down.
that shot with the E-M5 & 150 f/2.0 looks very wanna-have-too!
Samples look good to me. I don’t care about video, therefore I did not check the manual for that option. What I don’t like too much is the 12-50mm lens. I might want to wait for the first reviews that hopefully will tell us how well e. g. the 14-54 II will perform on the E-M5 with the adapter. That might be an interesting, even though a heavier combination. I might also wait for the new Panasonic zooms and in the meantime use my good old Panasonic 14-45mm and the Oly and Pana primes. However, since the kit lens (12-50mm) is only 200 € in the bundle, I might buy this lens together with the camera anyways. So I am still undecided about the lens, however, I will most probably buy the camera.
Well the firmware isn’t final, but the manual seems to be. With the release still almost 2 months away and a final manual out this implies to me we shouldn’t expect peaking or more robust video in the final firmware. I’m hoping for 24p and peaking in future firmware updates, but have a nasty feeling Oly isn’t planning on doing it this way. I was expecting video on par or exceeding the GH2 out of this camera, even more so now that they’ve announced future emphasis on better primes. I’m worried they’ll save advanced video capabilities for whatever camera comes out with these primes they’ve mentioned.
I have no idea how to use RawTherapee properly, but that said…
I opened the dark window shot taken at ISO 640. Then I pushed it by 6 (six) stops in RT. Used highlight recovery, slider to 100.
Saved as TIFF, opened in Lightroom v3. Very quick corrections made there:
* blacks +20
* NR luminance +50
* NR color +33
* magenta saturation -50
Resized to 800×600: http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3982/olympusomdem5preserieex.jpg
Considering this is kind of like ISO 40960, I’m impressed, to say the least.
i have the GH2 and iam very happy with this camera. but against e-m5 i dont know if i would choose again the GH2,for video apsolutlly,but i like much more IS in body and weather seald camera.
Oly had made a great camera, ot will be a hard to beat for Nikon and Fuji mirrorless and dslrs
Okay, I’ve read through the manual and I have a question:
In the section about shooting using different aspect ratios (I’ll use square because I use the square format a lot) I notice that the manual seems to be saying that JPEG files will save a file in the actual aspect ratio you’ve selected. But if you shoot a raw file, it seems to be saying the file will save the full 4:3 aspect, with your selected aspect ratio displayed as only “a frame around it” (not sure how that works in ACR or Lightroom…)
I’m not familiar with the Pens, so don’t know if this is how all the Olympus M43 cameras work or if I’m just misunderstanding the manual. With my Pana GH2, if I select the square aspect ratio, my raw files save as square images with the selected pixel count.
I realize that the GH2 has a true multi-aspect sensor while the E-M 5 presumably is cropping down the native 4:3 format to make the other aspect ratios, but I want to make sure I am understanding this correctly. It’s not a deal-breaker for the E-M 5 as far as I’m concerned, I’m just a bit confused about how shooting in different aspect ratios works in the Olympus world.
They will be cropped in LR. YOu have to open them in Olympus viewer to uncrop them
Well here’s another God-awful video sample. Not sure why Oly has let a couple bunk videos samples sneak out, they need to get a jump on it and post an official HD vid sample…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukpUZPk-NTc
I bet the focus of that video is on the IBIS 5-way. The video is apparently shot hand-held, and the video says 300mm. I bet the video starts with IBIS disabled, and when the video fades and returns at the halfway mark, I bet IBIS is enabled. The result is a far smoother handheld 300mm video (never mind the pixelation and crud of the video itself).
I bet you’re right. But sheesh, some dudes handheld bird shots at 480p is the second video anyone has seen out of this camera. I hope they’re holding off on video samples for a firmware updated sample with expanded video capabilities, but I doubt it.
if thats indeed about with/without IBIS then its pretty impressive, especially since we are talking about supertele FL. I just wonder what the impact is on the power consumption. I assume the batterygrip would be handy in that case
Also Olympus Viewer opens the raw files. Just tested now and no problem.
so much tease, but so expensive likewise.
i have to wait for real tests before i commit to anything!
this is a nice peak, but does not necessarly have say much.
i hope the “old” oly lense will work better with the e-m5 as opposed to my pen, where it continously hunts for autofocus.
dont want to wait years for weather sealed mft variants to come out, altho im sure it will be very worth it.
more power to the company! :p
I just want use my 12-60 on the thing, and the 12mm and portrait-length primes with the battery grip. Thinking about getting body only with 43 adapter, and the 12mm prime to start.
My current camera is an E-520, and my low-light shots actually work (surprise to hatrz), so I would expect this to be a fun improvement.
Also, I like the design. Just not sure if I can stand an EVF.
I think Olympus has a poor marketing dept to let so much trash get our before they post controlled samples.
I know most of you don’t care about 3D, but at least this camera is capable of it. And it mention 3d lens. Either it’s compatible with the panasonic 3d lens or maybe olympus has one coming. I mean I have a 3d tv and ps3, and a bluray that supports it. It’ll be fun to use it sometimes.
Great find. Compared with the PEN manuals and there definitely is added text for 3D lenses.
The forum guys at dpreview has done some serious test, the sensor seems to be huge.
Prediction: DxO will say ~11.7 stops DR (pixel level) at ISO 200.
I am predicting it won’t cross 11.1 stops DR at Dxo, but I need to check a few more RAW files. But if it does, that would sure be great- just not seeing it happening.
unfortunately the files from focus-numerique are password protected now.
but here is a raw-conversion from me aimed at maximum detail and less texture-smoothing than the internal jpegs:
http://datenkeule.de/dl.php?file=file1329348705olympus-om-d-e-m5-preserie-exemple9.jpg
here the same file upscaled to 48mp (8000×6000) with a crop of here left eye:
http://datenkeule.de/dl.php?file=file132934883148mp.jpg
here some crops to compare the potential of texture-preservation compared to the internal jpegs. 2 100% crops with jpeg to the left and the raw conversion to the right:
http://datenkeule.de/dl.php?file=file1329342465jpeg-raw.jpg
http://datenkeule.de/dl.php?file=file1329343823jpeg-raw2.jpg
Looks good to me, especially if we consider the piccs are taken with a kit lens. What iso are these files?
Oluv- that woman conversion looks pretty good and that’s ISO 400. Pretty good indeed with a lot of detail and decent blacks- some small grain looking hard but not an issue. How did you manage PHotoshop to open it (what the exif says)? Did it recognize them?
Thanks.
they are converted with raw therapee, then saved as 16bit tiff with further color adjustments in photoshop. for sharpening and noise reduction a combination of topaz denoise and topaz infocus was used.
it is really hard to achieve the same levels of details olympus is doing without the same smoothing. olympus does a great job already with the jpegs, but there is too much noise reduction going on. i wonder how the jpegs would look like with NR turned down completely as well as sharpening reduced a notch.
I was experimenting with Olympus Viewer 2 right now. I could only open and convert the RAW of the guy in the suit shot, for some reason the other two raw files I have “go black” and don’t convert.
With noise reduction off, there’s more detail than the default JPEGS but not as much as what you are showing here. Though the shot I was converting is an ISO 2500 (though in relative bright light).
Are you using Raw Therapee – the windows build or the mac build? Thanks again.
i use raw therapee for windows, although it wasn’t the latest built i guess. raw therapee is very good at low-iso shots if you want maximum detail. it is not that good for high-iso shots though. i prefer using ACR or LR for high-iso, although we will have to wait for it to support the E-M5.
unfortunately ACR doesn’t extract that much details out of the RAWs at lowest iso. most mFT cameras suffer from this. if you have a look at the comparison of GH2 and G3 (which more or less have a similar sensor) you will notice that the GH2 is quite a bit sharper in dpreview’s raw conversion.
http://tinyurl.com/865wd8k
this is because for the GH2 raws still a beta-version of ACR was used, which was not “optimized” for the sensor. this results in sharper demosaicing with some possible artefacts. but compared to the optimized G3 version, the GH2 shows much more details which are simply smoothened out in the G3.
i am afraid that adobe will also “optimize” their algorithms for the E-M5 sensor, which also will result in detail loss, compared to a neutral converter like raw therapee, which got a very good demosaicing algorithm “amaze”.
could you please upload the raw and jpegs from the guy somewhere? i didn’t manage to save it in time. i only have 2 of the woman-shots, the bike shot and the first shot with the building, though i haven’t looked at it yet.
@Oluv,i did dl the rawfiles exemple1-6,9,12,23,24,26
let me know if you need them and i will upload them via WeTransfer to you (ulliburer@yahoo.com)
There is a new update for Olympus Viewer 2 available. Ver 1.3. I´m at work, so I haven´t tested it.
@Oluv, i did upload a small crop of the same photo to flickr(just look for ulli burer), part of her face, the only processing i did was +2 EV to see the level of shadownoise better, sharpnening and NR were disabled
So…Who made this fuc***g sensor ??
😀
And where’s my new weather-sealed 60mm f/2.8 macro and your new 75mm f/1.8? Sheesh.
Back to griping on topic!-)
hmmm this thread is starting to get nasty, lol
You said: “I’m not sure why you still care about Olympus”
I say: “I’m not sure why you still care for those who care about Olympus”
good site!! You should start many more. I love all the info offered. I will stay tuned.
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