A lot happened this week on the competition front. And some of those new products compete against actual Panasonic/Olympus cameras:
1) Leica announced the new Full Frame fixed lens Q camera (details here at BHphoto). This camera is not made in collaboration with Panasonic as it happened with past fixed lens cameras. And I think the sensor is a Sony too (Panasonic doesn’t make FF sensors yet).
2) Sony A7rII (details here at Amazon). It has 5 axis stabilization just like the Olympus E-M1/M5II cameras. But the tech behind it is completely different. It also has internal 4K recording making it a serious GH4 competitor (although the A7rII costs more than double!).
3) Sony RX10m2 (details here at Amazon). This is a Panasonic FZ1000 competitor. But we know Panasonic has a new FZ3000 camera on schedule. Don’t know if Panasonic will use the new Sony 1inch sensor too.
4) Sony RX100m4 (details here at Amazon). Definitely a LX100 competitor. LX100 is cheaper but the RX100m4 has tons of great features.
Always good to hear how Sony is pushing the boundaries. I hope this helps to speed up their E-M1II, FZ3000, GX8 and TRIP-D release 🙂
156 Responses
another slow news day
I’ll try to pick up my Q Saturday 🙂
I will wait for my RX1 mark 2, or RX2 : )
rich 😛
I wish I was! Granted, I have to eat bread and water for some time from now on.. :/
F&B is important too .
Don’t treat yourself this way .
Gotta admit, its the first Leica that really doesn’t have anywhere near the glaring compromises of its predecessors. First Leica I really wish I could own.
Count me in .
But it’s always my style to wait for reviews before going for such ultra high price
stuff .
Grab me one as well. I’ll pay you back in increments over the next decade.
Greetings from Netherlands! Thank you admin for posting the news of these awesome Sony cameras. I wonder if there will ever be a ~$2300 m43 camera to compete with Sony.
The RX100m4’s sensor seems much more advanced than the 20MPx one which was rumoured to be in RX100 mk 4.
Stacked BSI Sensor for fast readout!
Sort of. But the stacked sensor is mainly good for read-out speeds. They don’t actually claim any improvements to quantum efficiency over the standard BSI sensor (i.e. improvements to noise or DR). The 20MP 4/3 sensor would still have provided better image quality, but would have required a larger lens and wouldn’t have been able to do the high frame rate video…so obviously they didn’t deem the tradeoffs to be worth it.
Thanks for valuable info, I didnt know that.
I am a bit confused. In this post, you say the rx10ii is a competitor to the fz1000 (yes) the. You say you know the fz3000 is coming. In a previous post where the g7 and gx7 were mentioned there was a picture with the term fz300 and not fz3000. With the lack of that 3rd zero it leads me to think of a replacement not for the fz1000 but a replacement for the fz200 which has a tiny sensor. I am guessing you added an extra zero? Have you received rumors of BOTH fz200 and fz1000 replacements??? If not can you clarify which one you are talking about.
yes, tiny sensor is the main concern!
Sometime articles are typed wrongly .
Turn on your intelligence analysis button & you will able to get it correctly .
Makes mft look quite boring to be honest.
: )
Would you marry me, mary?
You should stop talking to yourself.
Jealous?
My comment is about the RX100 because the Q and the a7Rii won’t fit in a paragraph, the latter elicits drool, yes. I was thinking about the 20mpx FourThirds sensor from Sony. No news on who will use it first, yeah? Hard to say because the E-M1 refresh will be due soon, but it seems quite obvious that it would handily change the competitive quality of the LX100. The new RX100mk4 puts pressure in exactly that spot.
that is new,this is new,why you don’t give time to olympus and panasonic.
they still wait to release new product,please wait.
when sony role with walkman ,steve job begin build Apple Company.
and then Apple Ipod beat all sony’s multi-media.
why you like Sony , You are 5 year old child,You do not know Sony Company,
They are loser company.and next they will be loser again.
Stop trolling us with $ONY sensors or cameras…
well, Admin runs both 43rumors and SonyAlphaRumors…
Why not?
I personally would welcome even more news from the “other side of the fence”.
The websites in the collaboration each could create the “most important news of the week” article and let it appear on other websites (and all of them in bulk on the MirrorlessRumors).
you sound so much like the beloved m43 moderator here lol
I’m perfectly fine with it. I would like to have Panasonic feel the pressure to keep innovating. I think GH5 must have IBIS now. I’d like to see better internal codecs for 4k and 1080p too. Maybe raw in 1080p.
I held the FZ1000 in my hand. My goodness what a bulky and heavy thing is that! Quite a NO-GO for stills, but maybe a little acceptible for 4k video…
FZ2000 order sensor from sony semiconductor and beat RX10II again ,i bet
LOL, ha ha ha
The Leica Q sensor is not a Sony one. It’s almost undoubtedly CMOSIS, but possibly Toshiba. It is not ISO-invariant, as all modern Sony sensors are, and is about 0.5-1 stop behind a modern Sony sensor as in the D750.
You mean because of the banding at iso 12k?
Or at ISO 100 pushed +4EV (so ISO 1600 equivalent).
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/leica-q-typ116/6
That was quick – interesting stuff. So it´s even more questionable why anyone would spend that much money for a closed system (fix lens) that will be obsolete in a few years.
By Leica standards it is actually very cheap. That 28/1.7… Summicron-M 28/2 is about the same price alone, and upcoming Summilux-M 28/1.4 is more.
If you have a business partner who is not into manual focus, it would be an appropriate gift. 🙂
I wouldn´t waste that much money on a business partner…
What does that mean for m43?
Olympus:
– Olympus now has a serious competitor for 5-axis IBIS, with the added disadvantage that theirs doesn’t work with video and their video offers are subpar so far. The really need to work out better sensor deals. I assume they have contracts with Sony / Pana that actually cripple Oly’s video efforts
– Oly might get new BSI sensors from Sony – but this might take a while. The new 20MP m43 snesor was not BSI.
Panasonic:
– Pana must innovate on the sensor front more than ever. Sony and Samsung are getting away. Assuming Sony puts a BSI sensor in the next Axxxx, Panasonic should definitely have a new sensor in the GX8. Otherwise they’ll look really bad.
– Pana must try to get IBIS with video to work. Their video processing is generally better than Sony’s, and I’ll assume they will take the lead again with the GH5, but IBIS and large sensor 4k will outweigh better handling for many.
By the way, could the Leica Q EVf find its way into the GX8? It’s field sequential, so it might be Panasonic.
IMO, sony’s 28mbps AVCHD is much better than pan’s, not sure about the newer 50mbps XAVCS though.
EOSHD thought the GX7’s video was much better than the A6000.
I prefer MP4 to AVCHD and I don’t have an A6000, so I can’t weigh in personally.
fake ,no 28mpx from sony that is samsung nx1 with advance BSI and better than all APS-C sensor include sony’s ASP-C,
please come back trolling to SAR.
ha ha ha fucking guy.
fake, if no FF hybrid camera Panny always better than Sony.
and FF hybrid will compare to Varicam 35mm (super 35mm sensor)
Why do not ? please com back troll on SAR.
“What does that mean for m43?”
It means that Olympus and Panasonic must radically reduce prices for GH4 and E-M1. But at least in the US, their representatives are slackers, will miss this, and will just stupidly wonder why the sales just gone down so much.
In the US, among Olympus cameras just E-PL6 kit is properly priced at $299 (original E-M5, being 3 y/o, is close to being properly priced too but just too old). The rest just cannot compete. E-M5 II, even without OSPDAF, or 4k, or at least full-sensor readout in 1080p60, for $1100 body only? Who in their right mind… when A7 is $900 new? Its right price in the current market is $499 max for body, and then only if they equip it with 12-40/2.8 for $400 or so extra. Had it had OSPDAF and 4k, it would be a different, $999 story, but some product manager in Olympus brainfarted and released 2012 camera in 2015.
I don’t see how you come to that conclusion if you compare flagships. Sony has bumped the prices of all three cameras from the older models. The A7R II sits at $3200, which is $2000 what you pay for a GH4 body. If anything, Panasonic currently has a price advantage.
you are right, the only way for m43 to compete with apsc and ff is lowering the price.
I really wish APS-C didn’t get lumped in with FF in these conversations. The gap between them is twice as large as between M4/3 and APS-C.
By sensor area (not rounding), and without all the rounded approximations that get thrown around:
APS-C -> M43 = 0.55-0.71 EV (depending on whether it’s Canon or Nikon crop)
FF -> APS-C = 1.23-1.39 EV (again, depending on 1.6x or 1.5x)
They really aren’t the same. Yes, to match FF @ f2.8 you need about an M4/3 lens at f1.4. To match APS-C? You need f2.3. Wow.
but you have additional crop when using a GH4 to shoot video. Also the16:9 crop in a 3:4 sensor is larger than in a 3:2. Endup the different between m43 and apsc is as much as apsc and ff.
Fair point on the video front, I guess.
That said, the GH4 is nearly 1.5 years old now, and was Panasonic’s first 4K effort. I don’t imagine that all of their future cameras will maintain the 2.3x 4K crop.
Personally, I hope that they go back to multi-aspect sensors and make a higher end GH5.
Don’t know what you’re talking about. My XE2 smokes Any M43 camera in Image quality. Especially when I use the 35mm fuji lens, that’s even smaller than the P/L25mm that I also own.
We all like different things in photography. I don’t mind noise in my images (which M4/3 obviously has) and I find that Fuji X-Trans images trade smoothness for detail and are a bit soft for my tastes. The 25/1.4 there is also sharper than the 35/1.4 at every aperture, and even sharper at f1.4 than the Fuji is at f2, so the size tradeoff obviously gets you something. You can check Lenstip or Photozone.de for confirmation, or just look at a few pictures.
“Olympus now has a serious competitor for 5-axis IBIS, with the added disadvantage that theirs doesn’t work with video”
Huh? It surely does.
” Oly might get new BSI sensors from Sony – but this might take a while. The new 20MP m43 snesor was not BSI.”
At least it has decent readout speed. BSI at these pixel sizes does not add much. But Oly should really look at alternative suppliers of both sensors and processors – like Samsung or OmniVision.
“Huh? It surely does”
Nope. Not with the 4K video.
You did not write anything about 4k video, you wrote, as in my quote, “that theirs doesn’t work with video”. You have probably mistook Olympus for GX7.
Utter BS. Have you seen the 5 Axis tech Sony used for the Sony A7ii? If its the same tech then its garbage, Panasonic lenes give a steadier shot. Olympus has the tech for stabilization only until a competitor copies it successfully though. The olympus EM1 I predict will kill everything, I’m betting 4K, newer sensory and that awesome stabilization.
And why do you think Oly will have (great) 4k all of a sudden? their video track record is abysmal, why should that change?
At least we know they are considering 4k since they acknowledged it. But may take them longer than this next gen EM1. 4k firmware update for em5ii would be appreciated, I’ll pay extra for it. Even true 1080 would be great.
I can’t believe y’all believe that Baloney that there’s some “contract” stopping Olympus from doing proper video…
-Sony has ibis as well as Panasonic AND both have 4K. Maybe not all in one camera, but they have it. Olympus video still sucks, because they don’t care for video, and/or they don’t want to compete with Panasonic because they know what they’re doing video wise.
It’s like Panasonic seen this mirrorless competition coming, and created a genre in video and small cameras to carve them a decent slice in the mirrorless pie. If they were smart, they would go small and more affordable. Then they could do away with the 1″ sensor and take over that slot.
So Panasonic would look worse than Olympus, with the old Sony sensor in their latest camera? I’d wager that they will use either the same Sony sensor, or the GX7 sensor in the EM2!
” And I think the sensor is a Sony too (Panasonic doesn’t make FF sensors yet).”
I bet it is actually CMOSIS, like the one in M Typ 240.
neither it seems
How it “seems” so?
Leica releases an affordable camera for the masses…
You called that affordable ?
Or maybe otherwise can’t see Leica will survive in nowadays digital camera era .
Understand sarcasm…
The RX10 II is some serious competitor, the RX100 IV depends. It does have 4K, but only for 5min, on the other hands it has 960fps slowmo!
1080p 1000fps?
Not really. Look at the specs.
Actually the “effective resolution” is 1,136×384 in “Quality Priority” and 800×270 in “Time Priority”…
I don’t know how they will make it work but it says it’s going to output 1080p files. Sony has an algorhythm to make upscale enhancement which they had used on pictures before, so that might be it. You can’t say it’s just a simple upscale but sure, it might not be a perfect clear 1080p, but nonetheless it still looks pretty good from the samples on the net.
[PAL] mode
XAVC
S HD:50p 50M (1,920×1,080/250fps), 50p 50M (1,920×1,080/500fps), 50p
50M (1,920×1,080/1000fps)
25p 50M (1,920×1,080/250fps), 25p 50M
(1,920×1,080/500fps), 25p 50M (1,920×1,080/1000fps)
I like them small.
lol.
he said 28mbps AVCHS (that’s bitrate and codec)
all you see is 28 m and p and think of 28MP….
ok,typo,and 28mbs on aps-c sony sensor worse than FHD lumix .
that i sure.
4/3 and FF different so much ,can not compare.
Panny and Oly should work together as a team rather than a competitor. On paper, A7r2 is like the best of GH4 + E-M1 features together.
Should be double the cost then, instead of triple.
No
Is more than that .
a GH5 + E-M1 II I dare to say .
Good video is no longer an excuse for a lack of IBIS.
And a good IBIS is no longer an excuse for bad video.
Now let’s wait 1-2 years for Pany/Olympus to fight back. I wish Sony was still involved in APS-C mirrorless; I might have considered changing system. But with the current lack of lenses and no commitment to that format, I’ll keep my m43 setup. I have no interest in lugging an FF kit, even if mirrorless, and no interest in paying $3000 for a camera or $1000 for any decent prime. Still glad Sony released that amazing camera.
Almost my exact thoughts.
My thought are quite in line with yours, something that people choosing sides can’t really understand. Sony fanboys gets angry when I complain about Sony’s lack of commitment with APS-C when it comes to lenses and somehow they think we are all rich and that we should simply buy into a system that every lens cost $1K+ or even worse, use the FF lenses in APs-C bodies.
But I don’t think Panasonic and Olympus have 1-2 years to fight back. In the video front, Panasonic has to step up fast. The GH5 will certainly be cheaper than the FF from Sony but in the end, it’s about upside. If Sony releases a A7SII with internal 4K, absurd DR and low light capabilities, Panasonic will be in trouble. The GH5 will certainly offer some things Sony can’t with that formfactor, which is better battery, no time limit for 4K recording.
The GH5 will need less crop for 4K (how about the 1,86x crop they had before), new sensor, out-of-the-box V-log and IBIS working in video. With the new Metabones the crop may not be such a issue but if Panasonic can come up with a quick full readout sensor, less crop is easily achievable. But IBIS or the lack of it will be huge. With Metabones and so many PDAF on sensor, the possibility of using Canon lenses with OIS or just passive adapter with IBIS is a huge plus for Sony. You don’t need Sony lenses with that, if you have the money for the body, the GH5 will not be so compelling.
But I liked the RX10 II a lot, it’s a great B camera, even primary camera depending on your use. It brings tele AND 1000fps slowmo, it’s a nice complement to a standard kit for video. But I’m in no hurry and I don’t have the money now, so I’ll wait for Panasonic’s response. Right now, the weather sealing, 1000fps slowmo, built-in ND, touchscreen, constant f/2.8, 14fps, S-log, etc. are things Panasonic can’t offer with the FZ1000. FZ1000 basically only has better price, longer zoom and articulated screen as advantage.
About “1-2 years to fight back”, I guess I’m more patient than the overall market! But you’re right about that: they don’t have that much time if they can’t afford losing some market shares.
Micro4/3 is kind of an eternal underdog, I don’t think they can afford to give any competitor much of an edge even more for 2 years. I’m also patient towards this things but the market is pretty volatile, even more for Micro4/3. One would think that with the way Sony did with their APS-C cameras – a total disrespect towards their users with basically no new significant lenses at all for the past few years -, not many would be willing to bet on their FF, nonetheless, people bought in quite quickly.
Well, that’s quite the generalization there. I am a Sony APS-C user and am quite unhappy with the current lack of development. But that is Sony, kind of expected. On the question of pricing though, m43 is hardly a cheap system, if you really want to achieve good IQ. That is one of the reasons I decided to not invest in that system, even though I really want to.
I don’t get what you are saying. I said that fanboys gets angry when you talk about the lack of commitment of Sony but then you said that there is a generalization and that you are unhappy, so are you saying that you are an unhappy fanboy? It doesn’t make much sense though, maybe you misinterpreted what I wrote.
But the question is not about if you have to invest in expensive optics to achieve better IQ, that’s kind of obvious and that will be true for ANY system. The question is that you should have cheaper options for those that can’t afford all of that off the bat or those that don’t mind the ultimate optics. The 45mm f/1.8 from Olympus is quite good and you can get it for a good price, the 20mm f/1.7 from Panasonic as well, you have those options, whereas from Sony, you don’t. It’s not about a cheap system, but having options to choose from.
The APS-C line up was getting interesting back then when Sony launched the NEX-6 and NEX-7, they also launched the 35mm and the 50mm primes, things were looking good and you would had expected more primes and even a 16-50mm f/2.8, which would be a natural development for the system. But instead, Sony launched the RX1, a FF mirrorless with fixed lens, that was an experiment which became the A7 series.
Since that decision Sony basically dropped the APS-C system development – giving up the photography APS-C mirrorless niche to Fuji – and since then you get new bodies every year, some quite good like the A6000, but you don’t get the whole package since I think lenses are part of it.
Samsung is now getting more aggressive about APS-C mirrorless market, seeking to get part of the market Sony is neglecting, even more 4K video with a proper system – like Micro4/3 has it. Samsung finally delivered the body people would want, they do have some lenses, with more focal length options than Sony, but it’s not as developed as Fuji, but they are probably going towards that if they want to really be a competitor in that market.
I am saying that I won’t get angry “when you talk about the lack of commitment of Sony”, because that is the reality 🙂
I understand what you mean about cheaper options, but they are clearly coming (the newly released 28mm F2 is the same price as the Zuiko 17.5mm and cheaper than the PanaLeica 15mm). Obviously, Sony wanted to begin with the high end stuff.
The 45mm and the 20mm are merely the exceptions, i.e. good and cheap. They also need to cover a smaller sensor. Looking at the pricing of the e-p5 (700 dollars for a two year old m43 camera without EVF!), e-m1, e-m5ii, olympus 12mm, panasonic 7-14 etc. the system is indeed cheaper, but, as I said, not cheap at all. And if we look at adapting lenses, then it looks even worse.
As to the void left in APS-C, not sure what to think of it yet. Fuji and Samsung are indeed fully committed, but market share numbers point to Sony dominating for the moment.
Yeah, but that’s what I didn’t get your comment since I was only addressing the fanboys, not users in general.
I know that it’s not all cheaper lenses that have that quality, my point was about having options.
But I didn’t get your point about the FE lens though, since we were talking about APS-C or why you talked about the price.
Sony might dominate the low end market and the brute numbers but the profit is really on the high end market – which is why Sony went FF – and I doubt Sony dominates the APS-C high-end market. As a whole it’s probably Canikon, as for mirrorless market, it should be Fuji, I think.
Sony was special Company that make begin of Business look awesome,
beautiful,innovation,almost very good thing.
when the time gone by,they shock customer & fanboy with remove part of product,abandon magic product. they clear all non-profit product although it’ most favorite of many people.
look BetaMax,Mini Disc,Workman,Liquid Television(many inspiration they do),
Computer Monitor,Decrease model of Smart Phone.
Play Station from 90% market shared to 50%.
ect..
You seem to forget… Panasonic can always beat Sony with a lower price and still offer close enough video quality to whatever Sony puts out.
Panasonic also has a lens selection much greater than sony
I actually addressed all of that and as I said, this is not about choosing sides, ok? Also, Panasonic’s video is usually better than Sony’s.
No point speed up E-M1 II & GX8 without new sensor to it’s support like what
happened to E-M5 II .
As you can see , all the stuffs launched are interesting & have their own merits at it’s class
especially Leica Q & A7rII .
Maybe it’s best time to own my first FF camera .
Do it!
Nah, try a Fiji X camera first.. the truth shall set you free….
A new version of the x100 with a non x-trans sensor could be interesting….
Fiji is new GCN of AMD graphic tech,
Fuji do not intent on Hybrid Camera.
today i am not interest Fuji X system. 🙂
lol GCN did dissapoint many AMD fans (with those issues with DX12) but you can wait for tomorrow for the big news!
why disappoint? i do not care but AMD graphic still good and HBM with impress new performance,ok guy i don’t like bias to brand,country or racism ,everything had pros/cons please rethinking by yourself.
Amen
Anyone know if the newly announced sensors match the ones announced as in development?
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/IS/sensor2/products/index.html
If anything, This is exciting for future olympus products, I.e. high readouts and frame rates. Notice the higher tech is mainly on the smaller sensors. The 1″sensors have ram built into the chip allowing the super high frame rates. This means the tech is more feasible for m43 than FF. Too bad Sony doesn’t care about this size sensor for their own interchangeable lens camera product line. FF is still overkill for me and requires lenses that are too big, considering shallow DOF is more of a limitation than a benefit in most cases. The flagship Sony is about 3 times more expensive than the gh4, and they are just catching up with 4k in this iteration. Looking forward to seeing the response.
How is it exciting? It’s not like Sony is going to give away these new sensors to Olympus for free. I can see the next two top of the line Flagship cameras from Olympus being Old Sensors, because they’re not turning a profit.
Sony can get away with using newer sensors because they Make them. Even still, the 43 sensor has reached its limit. The only thing I see saving more photos from leaving is the fabled Organic Sensor. And even if that happens, there’s a APS-C Organic Sensor in the works for Fujifilm as well.
So you think olympus will have a better profit with older sensors in the next two years than by buying new ones and settling better cameras? Maybe so, but I doubt sensor cost is the main factor in their pricing and business model. Maybe I’m wrong.
According to some data (from a few years ago) from Canon, the sensor is by far the most expensive component in the camera and I doubt that has changed. Also, Olympus already did what MrALLCAPS is describing with the earlier 12MP sensor that they used for 3 or 4 years (Canon also did the same with their 18MP APS-C, as another example).
There are obviously high costs for redesigning interfacing hardware, making new boards, testing, etc, so it doesn’t make sense to put a new sensor in at each camera iteration. Sony and Panasonic don’t put a new sensor all the time either. But seems weird to say olympus will cripple their cameras for years to come because they don’t make their own and will be too expensive from Sony.
New sensor tech is exciting for people like us, but image quality is probably not the deciding factor for general consumers anyway since it is already so good and mostly distributed on the web. I’m personally excited about frame rates and video applications the most and improvements are probably possible with the current em5ii sensor too with more effort on the processing side.
Well, I agree and disagree 🙂
Company level : It is not that they want to cripple their cameras on purpose, but Olympus, for various obvious reasons, will probably continue to change sensors less often than Sony (at least, that is what has been happening until now). While this might not be a huge issue for the likes of Nikon, it is hardly the same for Olympus, based on the state of the company and the nature of the system (smaller sensor, for example).
User level : On the other hand, I would have to agree with IQ being “irrelevant” for many. Taking a photo with an e-m5 instead of an a7r will hardly ruin a photo.
So, how it will all play out is anyone’s guess, but I personally do not see a bright future for m43, as their advantages are eroding (up to a point, of course). Sony, with its rather underdeveloped APS-C mirrorless already has the biggest share in that market.
Hate to bust your bubble, but megapixels and sensor size aren’t the same as film cameras. Right now there is a megapixel war going on, as well as a sensor size war. Canon can get away with running old sensors, because they’re the overall camera leader. Why innovate when you’re on top? Stupid, yes, but what’s more stupid is people keep buying them.
Sensors are to me the key point in buying a camera. People say the 16mp xtrans sensor is old, yet it’s still better than the latest M43 sensor. That says a lot. And you’re right, the average consumer could care less, which is why Canon turns a profit.
Olympus is not canon. They can’t afford to use old sensors, yet they can’t afford newer sensors. They’re in a losing situation.
You think the 4/3″ sensor has reached its limit, yet somehow the 1/3″ sensor, 1/2.5″ sensor, 2/3″ sensor, 1″ sensor, APS-C sensor, and FF sensor haven’t?
i am agree ,why olympus must expect image sensor from Sony.
Today they (olympus) can develop medical sensor on 3rd silicon factory, that good, and let it’s true because olympus had many patents on image sensor.
and Panasonic still develop new tech sensor that olympus can order new image sensor from TP factory(tower jazz).
or they make new tech sensor by themselves.
you said right , 4 year no new image sensor from Sony to Olympus.
That make less interest to EM5Mark II ,although it’s had many features.
Amazing how all the high tech digital camera news is Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Olympus, and Fuji. Guess Canon is relying on their customers to stay put.
Many of them have migrant to Alpha world & the rest .
In Asia at least you can see it .
Honestly, besides the A6000, Sony’s full frame cameras are dogs when it comes to AF. I just tried the original A7R at a camera store to compare it to my E-M10 and, the AF speed wasn’t even close. I hope this new A7RII really closes the gap, but even then… m43’s is decently fast, but not as a fast as the higher end DSLRs.
You forgot Nikon with Canon
At least they have innovated in mirrorless with high speed autofocus in their 1 system. But yes, you are right in general.
Yeah I am talking in general, its like Nikon did do something better with their mirrorless but not of the level the other mirrorless cam makers have done
I think Canon will go ff mirrorless in time, so will see if customers stay put. It will be like Apple saying they will never release a large iPhone (when the competition is), then later releasing a huge iPhone. Brand loyalty is a funny thing.
But still S6>>>>>>iphone 6
The Leica Q sure is interesting, except I don’t know about the lens. I haven’t been tempted to use a 28mm fov for a very long time.
A Ricoh GR or even a Pany 14mm f2.5 on your m43 camera would be easier on your bank account if you’re not sure about the FOV. Slightly less “wow” factor, though.
I had the 14 2.5, one of the first m43 lenses i bought, but sold it some time ago.
Actually what I mean is, the Q would be much more tempting if it had a 35 or 40mm lens.
Sort of need a better, f1.4 14mm lens on m43’s to get a bit closer to the “wow” factor the Leica seems to be putting out. The closest we really have is the too expensive, but good Panny 15mm f1.7.
Leica Q is not a competitor the way I see it. It gives me a great full frame tool, for low light and indoors when I need it. I can keep my light weight m4/3 kit and never be in a spot where my images will be inferior to the full frame Sonys.
RX100 IV: That’s just an evolution of the RX100 but I don’t think it affects people that bought the LX100 that much. If you want 4K, LX100 is still the option to go since 5min of 4K is not really usable for most needs, whereas although 15min isn’t 30min or 1hr, it’s still decent amount of time. If you want smaller camera, it’s the RX100, that didn’t change. The RX100 already had 120fps, so people wanting some slowmo would had already chosen the RX100, so the 1000fps is a great leap.
RX10 II: This one is big. It’s certainly more expensive but it also has lots of upside. It has weather-sealing, built-in ND, touchscreen, constant f/2.8, 1000fps slowmo, better EVF. But I still don’t get how can Sony charge for things like time-lapse, that’s nonsense. Panasonic has better price, longer zoom range and articulated screen, that’s not enough. I wonder if Panasonic has a response for that, without the same sensor, it’s not gonna cut it.
A7RII: This is interesting because it atumatically implies that a new A7S II will come with internal 4K, that huge DR and low light capability. GH4’s uphand was the internal 4K, price and lens ecosystem. But with that many PDAF on sensor, you should be able to use Canon lenses with both AF and OIS, plus the IBIS work with 3rd party lenses. Panasonic stepped up with the GH4, Sony responded, can Panasonic counter it? The GH has other things like better battery life, more complete video feats, etc. but for most people that’s not so much for buying it if there is that A7S II coming. So one thing is sure, Panasonic has to come up with a new sensor AND IBIS working in video, if not, I’m not sure it will be any good putting a GH5 out there, it’s better to wait and develop something rather than rushing without upside.
Competition is so great!
How much will the a7s II be? Also 3k plus? Would be a game changer if they could get the faster readouts with a low megapixel count (12 mp). A 1 to 1 mapping of their sensor to the video frame. Although still bulky and expensive for most.
The A7 family is not really bulky, but FF lenses will always be compared to the Micro4/3 but so many also uses them with the GH4, so it’s not such a big issue.
About the price, it’s sure more expensive but anything up to 5D/D800 price people have shown that they are willing to pay, tons of people still use the 5D for video. So that’s why, although more expensive I don’t think that so many will be upset if this camera really delivers all that.
One of the major issues I have with the A7s is the rolling shutter but if Sony can implement their new tech to improve the readout speed, that will certainly help.
If Sony really wanted to be bold, they could finally launch their rumored A9 line up. One with better formfactor, one that would be big enough for articulated screen and bigger battery but more importantly, one that would not have overheating issues while recording 4K. This camera could have 24MP, so it would work for photographers as well but fast full sensor readout with lots of PDAF is important.
The 24MP is so you could get full sensor readout FF 4K but also Super35/APS-C crop for true 1:1 4K. This Super35 4K would allow for even less rolling shutter and with a Metabones you could get even back the FF if you wanted. The PDAF would allow you to proper use AF from Canon lenses and with OIS and IBIS options, no overheating issues, this would be a truly video workhouse camera.
This would be a true game changer because except for the price, it would take most of advantages the GH line up has and Canon, “poor” Canon would finally pay big for their lack of innovation.
Where are you seeing touchscreen on RX10 II? I’m not seeing it.
My bad, I thought I read somewhere that it had touchscreen but now I looked at the official specs and couldn’t find it either. Thanks!
actually 5min 4k IS usable for most needs.
Admin, when is this mythical TRIP D coming? I’m almost tired of waiting. Maybe should just get an RX100m4 instead.
Panasonic will move with GH5. Sony a7rII is a beast cinema camera!
Hopefully this latest Sony bombshell will wake up the other manufacturers and make them innovate rather than release marginal updates every year.
1) A quick google search would have informed you that the Leica Q sensor is made by CMOSIS. I guess lazy work leads to…
2) This post is pointless at a site called “4/3 Rumors”. How is a FF fixed lens camera “competition”? Posting random photo news and labeling it “competition news” does not make it a 4/3 rumor.
Oh, well.
Admin gets to post whatever he wants to post. Admin also posted m43 news on SAR, no problem at all.
just like m43 moderator gets to delete whatever comments he doesn’t like… I am sure by his logic, admin is trolling here.
The Admin posts something on the only subject you ever want to talk about (Sony) and all you can do is complain. Under many names as usual.
Once a troll, always a troll.
Feel better now?
If you don’t want to read anything besides Micro4/3 things, there is a very easy solution. Don’t read it, I know that it might sound quite revolucionary idea nowadays but, give it a try.
It’s quite contradictory to waste your time not just reading it but going to the comment section, typing, complaining, etc. Isn’t it much easier to simply ignore the post and only read the ones you want?
4/3 Rumors hasn’t posted really anything about 4/3 for a few years. That is of course not the admin’s fault, as there is not nothing to report about in 4/3 and m43 is the official successor to 4/3. But nobody makes a fuss that the site (and domain) hasn’t been renamed m43 Rumors. In reality, the site has expanded from m43 coverage to m43 + Olympus + Panasonic coverage, at least the higher end cameras and some (most?) of the Panasonic video products.
The Leica Q is competition in the high-end fixed-lens camera sector which in itself is competition for mirrorless (in particular small mirrorless). And both are markets where Panasonic (and Olympus) compete. Plus there is the rumour that Panasonic helped Leica with the development and lens production.
I read somewhere reliable, can’t find it now that it’s neither Sony or CMOSIS but some other manufacturer Leica is keeping secret.
This is just a Sony RX1 in lederhosen!
With faster AF, EVF, touchscreen and better IQ. So… nothing like the RX1 except for being a fixed focal length full frame camera.
Better IQ? It still sports one of SONY’s best sensors. Be that as it may, the RX1 is all about the lens, and tight integration, of course. I agree with mfs that the two cameras’ Gestalt is quite similar and unique to the market, even if the Q’s controls seem more appealing.
No thanks for the Q admin, I will wait for the RX medium format compact camera from Sony, with zeiss lens!
Those new sensors are amazing. And A7R II is really packedwith great usable features. It rightfully cost so much at the moment.
But how long ago did they release A7S? That one had to have external expensive recorder for 4k this doesn’t. Time sure moves fast in sony R&D… People who bought that managed to break even on the gear if they were lucky. LOL!
These fast readout and no EVF blackout sensors will do wonders for action photography and EVFs. No need for red dot sight that does wonders for action shots on E-M1.
And so falls one of the last (if not the last) selling points of DinoSLRs
E-M1 II with 20MP or 24 and this tech and features… mmm it will be the bomb! And I guess it will have the handheld HighRes mode that Olympus said will be doable in upcoming tech.
Be ready to drop 1.500+ on that baby when it comes… 🙁
I’m really missing a touchscreen on the RX100 IV! 🙁
On pretty much all Sony cameras of any consequence. It makes no sense whatsoever that sony, leader in the spec sheet wars neglects to make their screens touchscreen.
Even the Leica Q got a touchscreen lol. Leica also just figured out what live view is.
The most impressive feature is the 5-axis + 4K on FF.
The new stacked sensor must have reduced the heat output significantly, in addition to the monster read-out/cache capability.
It seems Olympus, Panasonic have to join hands in order to compete w Sony. None can, on its own.
Greetings from Netherlands! Why removed my earlier comment admin????
What did you write?
Hi there
I thought I read a rumour here a few months ago about Panasonic working on a new camera with Leica. But it wasn’t going to be badged Panasonic?
No. 1 Admin got completely backwards. While the Leica Q is not a Panasonic camera in a Leica shell other sources say it is made in collaboration with Panasonic and the sensor is a new version of the one used in M240.
Panasonic make very good OIS lenses and it wouldn’t surprise if the lens was entirely made by Panasonic. The camera itself should like all Leica cameras not existing in a Panasonic version in most part be made in Leicas Portugal plant with final assembly and quality control in Germany.
If Sony does release an A7000, with internal 4K, S-Log2, and so on, I think it’s all but over for the MFT crowd. Especially if they launch it at the $699 price, like the A6000 was.
You can dream fanboy.
In my opinion the A7000 should be the APS-C version of the A7RII.
New class leading high resolution BSI sensor with 30-32 MP, IBIS, 4K, new video features, improved AF system, large high-res EVF, magnesium body, durable shutter, electronic shutter option…
Price obviously can’t be $699… It would be more similar to that of the Samsung NX1 or even Canon 7D Mark II price…
All it takes is Panny &/or Oly to intro a 24MP BSI true multi aspect sensor. They can still be in the game for a long time to come. 🙂
The problem with Sony apsc-E was and is lens selection. And to a smaller extent the cameras’ user interface.
The FE line fares better in this regard, but now we’re also talking much larger overall systems.
The GH4 2.3 video crop factor is now rather unappealing.
I would consider staying with Panasonic if they introduce a true multi aspect sensor.
or full readout all area and downscale to 4K.
that method samsung use on NX1 that make good dynamic range and more color dept.
don’t worry this 4K generation 0 ,Panny start with 2.3 crop that worse than FHD crop,
Sony record via HDMI and bad focus / rolling effect.
i think generation 1 of 4K will be much better.
The A7RII records 4:2:0 100Mbit XAVCS 4K internally, and the newer BSI sensor architecture should help reduce the rolling shutter effect. The GH4 isn’t devoid of rolling shutter either.
4:2:0 oh no must be 4:2:2 or 10bit and best to 12bit 4:4:4 hires.
i saw that on promote video clip but i want test A7R2 for reduce rolling,
how they do,what the slew time read 2msec/4msec/16msec ?
Even the a7s doesn’t output 4:4:4 in 1080, much less 4K. If I remember right, the a7RII does output 4:2:2 4K, but can’t do that internally. The reason that rolling shutter is less pronounced on an a7RII vs an a7s is due to the BSI sensor. Say you are using an electronic shutter at 1/16000ths of a second. Because there is no global shutter, the sensor is read one line of pixels at a time, from top to bottom. Each one of those lines is recorded at 1/16000, but by the time the last line is read, maybe 1/2000 has gone by. Any movement would make the image appear tilted, this is the “rolling shutter” effect. Now if you can reduce the time it takes to read all the lines on the sensor, there is much less rolling shutter. BSI allows the camera to read the sensor MUCH faster than regular sensors(around 3.5x is claimed for the a7RII), thus reducing the full sensor readout time, which in turn reduces the rolling shutter effect. If you use the Super 35 mode, rolling shutter is even less pronounced, as the smaller sensor area can be read even faster. The BSI tech is the reason the Samsung NX1 has very little rolling shutter compared to other S35 cameras without global shutters. It still has it, but it isn’t as bad.