Fuji confirmed that there is still a long time to go before organic sensors will find their way in mass production cameras (More info at MirrorlessRumors). As you know that kind of sensor is developed in conjunction with Panasonic. I guess it will take at least 2-3 years before we geta MFT camera with such sensor. But maybe in the meantime other new tech will surface that will make that kind of organic sensor useless anyway…
Reminder:
On paper the new Organic sensor has the following advantages over conventional sensors:
1) it has only 1/6 of the thickness of the current sensors
2) Increased Dynamic range of 88dB
3) 1,2 ISO stops more sensitive
4) range of incident angles of 60 degrees, efficiently utilizing light entering at an angle for faithful color reproduction with no color mixing. It also gives greater flexibility in lens designs, facilitating the reduction of overall camera size.
The full press release can be found here: 43rumors.com/hot-news-panasonic-and-fuji-developed-the-first-organic-sensor/
79 Responses
The organic sensor appears to be nothing more than a mirage. There may be research, patents and rumors, but no real progress it seems. Meanwhile, other camera companies are making real progress such as dual-pixel AF, 5-axis IBIS, and h.265 encoding. I doubt we will see an organic sensor anytime soon, if ever.
Maybe the era of organic tech inst here yet. In 2025 things may change… Remember the times when Intel talked about mainstream processors with billion of transistors in 2014/15, hardly to believe in 2007, now its the reality.
And now?! What can I do now?! (Just some sarchasm đ )
Relax , we need further confirmation from Pana .
Fuji alone , not a valid statement to m43 .
Afterall , is Pana who do m43 sensors .
yes relax Marco lol
As if I were nervous.. :/ :)))
From the rumors, Fuji and Panasonic are supposed to work together at this organic sensor. Anyway, the sky won’t fall on me if only Sony and Canon are going to show high megapixel sensors on 2015: I won’t buy a full frame 40 or 50 mp camera, I would only be interested in a medium format one, at that pixel count.
I’m more interested in an exotic dp2 Quattro, but Sigma viewer really is frustrating.
I’ll wait till the end of February to see if anything worth (for me) comes out, otherwise I’ll stick with the Monochrom đ
Yes , wait .
Likely a turning point is going to happen .
Fuji likely divert it’s X Pro 2 to higher MP with same X trans tech since the organic tech is not ready yet to cope with CanonNikonSony’s MP war in 2015 .
Oly’s 40MP captures even convince me , 2015 is war of MP since no sensors breakthough for all camera manufacturers .
Only left LUMIX , nothing heard from them .
Not sure Yun will be able to handle this.
Of Course , I can accept it ,
Provided something need to come out urgently .
Let’s wait & see reaction from Pana before conclude anything .
we still have organic photomodels Yun
Believe me .
Pana surely got something to show for replacement if the organic sensor can’t make it’s appearance .
I guess 2015 , is a year of battle of MP since no techs are available so soon .
Even so, their products will be vastly inferior to N and C’s. Why don’t you jump the gun and move into a proper camera system? If you are so keen, you should at least give it a try.
M4/3 is proper camera system . Those reprimand the system because they are not photographers & failed to get highest image quality from the format .
In sufficient lighting , m4/3 with decent lens combine with correct photographing techniques capable of delivering stunning photos .
No way I going to that bulky system that only promise a very less improvement in overall image quality compare with latest m4/3 especially in tele shooting .
But you always complain here and would continue to complain regardless of what system you use. I don’t think you will ever be satisfied.
already used both brands, while they both have good stuff, their mirror& ovf makes them less flexible…its just different approach, thats all; people who can just praise one system, are very narrowminded imo
LOL You owe it to yourself to try a DSLR, but for real. Having
mirror, ovf and live view is *more* flexible than EVF only. It is more, not less. Repeat a few more times. This is a simple fact…
i never tried a liveview on LCD on a dslr, except on an E-3 and EOS 600D. I did my work on Canon 1D and Nikon D1x long time ago. The switch to mirrorless 4 years ago was, for me at least, a logical one . The WYSIWYG is very vaueable, ofcourse thats also the same for liveview on a dslr/LCD, but shooting by using EVF is what I do 90% of the time. OVF is not my 1st choice, but sure its ok, if others prefer that. so no need to convert me back thank you.
According to NewCamera , the tech is on development stage & cap by certain limitation .
This is the only tech that capable to bring m4/3 to another level .
Pity it still not available yet .
Wondering what kind of sensor tech will Pana feature in 2015 .
Patents still be Pattern,where is …. any tech,
such as ->Multi-Layer (foveon like) canon,sony,panasonic & olympus,
Better Foveon patents -> APCS by sony,MSC by panasonic,
Alternative -> Honey-Comb pixel is mean density more than Bayer-Filter,
i bet all cannot produce, how much you can pay Yun . ha-ha-ha
produce to mass product
I am not sure who the biggest fool in the forum is… You surely make an argument for yourself, but then we have Jun, and then the shills.
Yes , all cannot come out included Canon’s multi layer sensor , Sony’s APCS & Fuji’s organic tech .
Ha.ha
No offence, but I doubt it is “the only tech capable to bring m4/3 to another level”, unless you work for all sensor manufactures and know whats worth introducing?
Aren’t you a bit hysterical about this? Apart from some bullet-points, nobody knows how well it could work in reality (not so well apparently). Treating this as some kind of holy grail of sensor tech is silly. By the time they overcome the problems of this organic sensor, it might end up not being any better than next generation of CMOS sensors. There’s still some room for improvement in currently used technologies, and we’re gonna see that in coming years.
So, instead of worrying about some future sensor tech, learn to appreciate what you’ve got.
yeah,No-CMOS sensor has Global Shutter,
TDP is excellent,Full-Size Photo-site ,no pixel & microlen gap (gap make lose of pixel colors),
install new Image Processor with SIGGRAPH
there are CMOS sensors with global shutters and 43rumors even posted about such ones
Increased Dynamic range of 88dB means nothing… Increased over what?
Bwaaaaaaahhhhhhh and now? Little nerds going to cry out loud?
Well….I can still buy my organic blueberries at Wegman’s…and I have my E-M1 with all this GREAT glass that I can create images with today…so why the long faces? đ
You are late for the party .
Yes , organic coffee for me on my part
Organic fair trade espresso black.
Subjectively, not because I believe in all that, but because it really taste best.
It’s been a great year for m4/3!
In MY opinion, this Organic Sensor is either going to Save M43 for Panasonic, or the Jump to APS-C for Panasonic.
I think the cancelation of lenses and bodies from Panasonic is a sign of them ending most R&D from M43 and playing it safe with bodies like the GM/GH series.
Even thier new compact takes cues from Fuji with manual controls.
As I stated before, once Canikon comes out with SERIOUS mirrorless systems, not even a broad lens selection will save M43. Especially since more companies are taking 4K video more serious and even Sony has full ibis.
It only makes sense for Panasonic to go APS-C or Full Frame. Thier partner in this organic sensor is APS-C and their other partner in Leica has a APS-C system.
I’m sorry, but I think M43 has run its course, even though I’m fighting getting another GX7 over a Fuji Lens.
You mean their new compact takes cues from their LC1 circa 2004, right? If anything, Fuji was inspired by Panasonic, not the other way around. (Kidding, they were both obviously inspired by Leica, or a dozen other film rangefinders, and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves).
Is Takes cues from its MANUAL CONTROLS. Selective reading problems?
“Even thier new compact takes cues from Fuji with manual controls.”
Wow… you even fail at reading comprehension from your OWN posts.
The LX100’s manual controls are the same as those on the LC1.
Look at this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/minami/3056030028/in/pool-camerawiki/
Same shutter speed dial, same aperture ring. The only difference is that it doesn’t have an exposure compensation dial.
But then again, Nikon had one just like that on the FE, and Canon has one just like it on the Powershot G10.
http://img1.lesnumeriques.com/produits/1/4093/canon-g10-dessus.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_FE2#mediaviewer/File:Nikon_FE2_2.jpg
These are in no way new concepts, so to see Fuji get credit for them – or even simply for “reintroducing” them – is a bit annoying, and demonstrates a complete lack of context.
http://m.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-lx100/3
“As you can see, the LX100 looks more like a Fujifilm X100 than a Panasonic LX7.” -DP Review
Again…
MANUAL.
CONTROLS.
DO.
YOU.
UNDERSTAND?
And yes, fuji didn’t create manual controls, they just reintroduced them in a retro looking body.
And I don’t understand how you can’t see that the MANUAL CONTROLS on the LX100 are directly inspired by the Panasonic LC1 from 2004. The controls, as well as the overall aesthetic, are the same!
If the GH4 has sold beyond Panasonic’s expectations, why would they now, want to abandon the m4/3 platform? Who would trust them after they make this jump?
It’s obvious you don’t see the value of m4/3.
It’s obvious you didn’t read my comment. I did say, the interest would stay with the GH line.
And what’s the value? Smaller bodies? -The EM1 and the GH4 are just as large, if not larger than the Fuji line. Ibis? Sony has it now, with a similar size body. Price? Hahahaha! There’s no value in that. Lenses and lens size? Fuji is knocking on the door, with premium lenses, that may be slightly larger, yet better build and aperture rings on many of them. For size/price/image quality, there’s nothing better than the Fuji System right now, Nothing.
M43 days are numbered. At least from stills point of view. I just don’t see them lasting in a couple of years. IF Canikon does what I think they will, how will M43 compete? Smaller lenses won’t cut it. Compromise is paramount, and M43 doesn’t have that advantage anymore.
I’ll say it again: it’s obvious you don’t see the value of m4/3.
Arn’t you contradicting yourself by saying the interest for the GH line will remain, while condemning m4/3 to death in a couple of years?
Your argument that they won’t last is based on Canikon moving forward while m4/3 stands still.
Fujis are nice. Sony FEs are nice. M4/3 bodies are nice. All of them have real and noticeable advantages over each other.
The bodies are all about the same size. Sony FE lenses are large, M4/3 lenses are small, Fuji lenses are in-between. Exactly as you’d expect.
Sony FE has the best low-light performance and resolution, Fuji has some improvement in low-light over M4/3 but no better resolution (pixel level sharpness suffers compared to M4/3 due to the baked in noise reduction), and M4/3 is the worst in this respect. Exactly as you’d expect.
Sony has okay image stabilization and video. Fuji has no image stabilization and poor video. M4/3 has the best image stabilization and video (albeit on different bodies). Exactly as you’d expect?
Handling-wise, I think Sony has the best controls but the worst interface, Fuji is in between, and the top-end M4/3 bodies (E-M1, GH4, GX7) have the best handling, not least because they’re the only ones that seem to recognize the huge advantage that a touchscreen has, even on prosumer bodies.
Price-wise, M4/3 has the best starting place in terms of quality bang-for-buck, but requires exceptional engineering to match the image quality of larger sensor formats, so their top-end lenses look like poorer value. That said, there’s nothing on Fuji or FE that matches the quality-to-value ratio of the 20mm/1.7 or 45/1.8, and the Oly 75/1.8 matches the performance of the best 135mm FF lenses. Macro is also miserable on Fuji and Sony FE.
Horses for courses. Pick what’s important to you, recognize that not everyone has the same priorities, and that all the formats have their own advantages.
“And what’s the value? Smaller bodies? -The EM1 and the GH4 are just as large, if not larger than the Fuji line.”
Yes, it’s sad how all the other u43 bodies stopped working / vanished off the face of the earth once the EM1 and GH4 came out. đ
See anything selling, that’s not a OMD, GH, Or GM?
Didn’t think so..
Your attempt at sarcasm fell WAY short.
But hey, keep trying.
So you want panasonic to move to APS-C or FF, removing any differentiation from their products and the competition once Canikon finaly bring out worthy mirrorless offerings? That would be a suicidal business plan.
It’s only suicidal if they were going on by themselves. If they go in with either Fujifilm, or Leica, they’d be better off.
APS-C is utter crap. Most of the best lenses from Canon and Nikon are FF lenses so you have to buy them if you want the best lens for the job which means you have a huge camera/lens combination and could have just gone FF instead and saved you all that trouble. And if reach is the goal APS-C is crap too because m43 has it beat with its 2x crop factor.
M43 is just starting with the differences in high iso getting smaller and smaller each sensor generation and people like you are afraid that their gear and themselves, as they identify with it, will become obsolete. Fun fact is that happened already a while ago, you just didn’t notice, being too busy trolling the m43 forums…
đ
Btw, Olympus and Panasonic flagship cameras are truly innovative and often cameras of the year and are selling like hotcakes, while Canon makes the same camera again and again and takes 5 years to accomplish that and Nikon can’t get their QA together realasing untrustworthy cameras with serious flaws all the time (focus, oil spots, white dots, banding, etc.), Fuji has nothing pro in their portfolia at all and Sony can’t design a body with decent ergonomics if their company depended on it because their philosophy changed to small small small, no buttons but hard edges and tiny misshapen grips so that no pro really wants to use it as it is a fashion accessory first and camera…maybe third?
Very well said .
Thumbs Up
no need to say a system/format is crap. that makes one’s opinion less objective.
I don’t said that
is DensetsuX .
He / She might right .
D7100 / D800 / 7D / 5Dm3 with kit lenses compare with GX7 with 45mm F1.8 , which combination will excel in image quality , cost efficiency & practicality ?
Think about it .
Even with the kit lens, C and N will run rings around your software corrected plastic toys… Why, what did you expect?
another one who really need to join a club and thinks the others are too lowly..thank god you dont rule the world or some would end up in a camp
I was thinking of salt mines for m43 fanboys and Olympus execs alike.
better to compare a 50mm 1.8 on aps with the 45mm..similar quality but the dof advantage on aps is always ignored here, even by you Yun, which says enough for many of the users here. I would never praise MFT into the skies, just because i use it, since I see advantages of the bigger sensors as well, even an aps ones.
Don’t get me wrong , I’m not praising anything here , it just the fate on the comparation above according to price / cost . Personally I prefer m4/3 over APSC simply because I favor small stuffs with decent image quality .
M4/3 match the criterias , maybe one day I’ll get my beloved X Pro 2
mirrorless in aps is as interesting. but a faux RF body has no real advantage over a centered evf as i need to use my left eye anyway. Btw the poor man’s leica is used for more models then just the one you named đ
Don’t get you .
But X Pro when make it’s debut , some people called it poor man LEICA camera because it resemble LEICA M9 .
I hate such branding but they might have their points cause Fuji that time is famous for cheap option cameras .
Yes , I admit the practicality of a EVF at centre rather than at left side but if compactness is your point , then you have to get used of it .
imo the real lowbudget mirrorless “poor man’s leica” is the Ricoh GXR with the A12 module as it has a leica M mount.
regarding the center evf, E-M5/10 are compact too, but the people get distracted by the hump.
Thanks for your insightful comment. Here is mine: m43 is crap, believe it or not – you would believe it if you were a photographer.
wel apparently, I am not anymore, because you just redefined the meaning of that word to yourself.
………….come back to planet Earth.
Fuji has nothing Pro in thier portfolio?
I’m done.
Very funny, thanks. Panny and Oly are so innovative that their top models still lag behind C and N’s cheapest. Just for the other readers.
Don’t ever think CanonNikon to come out serious mirrorless camera simply because it’s not going to happen .
For example , Canon need to slash it’s own EOS 100 to 6D or even 5D in order to do that .
Do you think Canon or Nikon willing to do that ?
Of course it will have impact on m4/3 once CanonNikon mirrorless arrived but the huge impact still reflected to CanonNikon itself .
That’s why the Organic tech is a must for m4/3 , the 88dB sensor definitely put m4/3 into untouchable position in digital photography world
MrALLCRAP – another absolutely worthless post from you. The only thing that has run its course is YOU. You know squat about m43. Moronic troll. No one cares what you think. Take a hint.
From GM1 to 35-100 f4.0-5.6 lens I can see Panasonic is keeping the size/weight of their cameras and lens down, and the switch to APS-C or FF contradicts their philosophy. It’s still unknown which format gets most benefit from organic sensor. If organic sensor in M4/3 sells like hotcakes then why will Panasonic leave the mature market?
And the cancelation of lenses and bodies from Panasonic is a sign of them ending M4/3… just doesn’t make sense. Even the release of Olympus’ 40-150mm f2.8 raising Panny’s fear that they fail to achieve revenue goal with their not-as-good lens, is a better explanation than this. đ
There is absolutely no reason to change to a slightly bigger but less corner sharp APS-C Format. Read this to hopefully understand the issue: http://www.four-thirds.org/en/special/microftmerit/merit2.html
Most profit from such a organic sensor would have companies that ignored good telecentric design and have their problems with actual CMOS Sensors. That is Sony with a very small flange back. A7 has bad vignetting under 28mm lenses and bad corner sharpness.
I assume Sony’s short flange back was designed for the future organic sensor development with 60 degree angles.
And we might see new Olympus and Panasonic fullframe cameras with such sensors.
No, Sony E mount was designed for APS, that’s why it is flawed on 135. It looks like nobody is going to touch Canon and Nikon in the foreseeable future, except maybe in the cheap toy department.
The organic sensor looked good on paper, but then it grew legs and ran away.
2-3yrs min for a 1stop better ISO.
That is pretty disapointing actually!
What’s all that obsession with high ISO performance, is everyone making selfies in dim lit bars?
i think the fear of noise is lesser now, since most cameras do well now.Ofcourse we can do that selfie thing, its has become a new genre in digital photography.
Yes!
The angle of capture and being much thinner and lighter are the real possibility of a game changer. Also probably much less current usage.
So far, the problem seems to be too much current usage – heat and power consumption are the barriers to commercialization.
I would say thinness and lightness of the sensor is probably the most trivial difference of all, that has zero effect on the end user.
You are correct though, the angle capture and the requirement for less telecentricity is probably the main improvement. Dynamic range and improvements to ISO are also real and useful.
Honestly, conventional CMOS sensors – even in M4/3 – are already pretty darn good. A radical upgrade would be cool, but I don’t feel any need to hang my hat on it in order to be happy.
wasnt a microlens less sensor design also a good thing as Kodak did?Ok its less sensitive but most people dot really need high iso, they just want it.
i remember about rumors of organic sensor two year ago telling that will be released for 2016-17