Crop Sensors vs Full Frame :: Crop Or Crap?
Kodak PIXPRO S-1 MFT camera tested at Soomal.
Apple adds support for the GH4, E-M10 and Stylus 1.
Ricoh’s proposed 7mm f/2.6 prime for 4/3-inch sensor size (Imaging Resource).
Olympus SP 100ee review at Photographyblog.
Leopold: “Here is my first trailer of my upcoming project “After Us”. It was also my first time with my GH4 out in the wild after spending some time with all the technical possibilities with that very nice cam. I´m very excited filming in 4K with this tool and although realized in the post production how much i still can push it and will in the future. https://vimeo.com/103432291”
Flammaboi: “Hey I just wanted to share this live music video I made shot with three cameras; one of them being the GH3 and Camdiox Focal Reducer. The colour between the cameras was a bit different and it took some effort to match the colours but I did eventually manage it: https://vimeo.com/103027540“
50 Responses
Please remove yourself from photography. This is the most ANNOYING video I have ever seen- period. You go on about “not getting in that fight” but post a video doing exactly that. Even worse, you choose to use a prop in the most useless and irritating way. If you swing the stupid stick around one more time I’m going to smash my computer screen. This video is about you listening to yourself and watching your own reflection in black and white. You provide no worthwhile information. Anyone, and I mean anyone, has heard this argument ad nauseam. No one cares except self glorified professionals who delight in the fact that the argument is low hanging fruit in terms of something to squawk about. How about providing some useful information. Maybe something like, hey- want more resolution on a dime? How about using your old DSLR, grab a 4×5 and a multistitch plate and wammo- 130MP files. You can now have tomorrow’s technology now. See, that’s useful information. This is just rubbish.
Well he tries to make a point and does it better than this Tony Northrop guy, with his idiotic equivalent nonsense.
I simply choose to ignore all of it. 😉
While spending thousands of bucks on overpriced. over sized manual focus lenses trying to chase what you can get easier on other systems
…and shoot a portrait with ears and nose out of focus.
I guess that’s your problem, eh?
I have no problem at all with it.
I love my Voigtländers… native M4/3 and adapted.
I’d rather carry a small camera, like my GX7, and an array of different lenses… whether they’re the Voigtländers, 7-14mm, 100-300, 45-150mm, 20mm or even the Oly 15mm Body Cap… than a big, honking DSLR along with big, honking lenses.
When Sony gets their act together with version 2 of the A7-series, I’ll take a hard look, buy a pile of lens adaptors and use all my 135 format lenses… 20mm to 300mm. That’ll be the best of both worlds, a large sensor camera body of reasonable size… not unlike my Nikon FM2… and my manual 135 format lenses from Voigtländer, Pentax SMC Takumar, Nikon AI-S and Olympus OM.
Indeed, that Tony Northrup guy is ridiculous.
As opposed to the myriad of foolish mFT users who do not understand equivalence and how it impacts all camera formats. It is one of the unique features of mFT forums that make them such a source of amusement to so many.
You all sound like American religious creationist nuts
http://www.creationevidence.org/
And god created M43 in the third day….and there was “total light gathered”…..hehe.
I hear that. Tony has a few decent points but he leaves out a lot of information. I’m amazed how many people with a camera become titans overnight for the photography community.
The only thing that is amazing is the denial of mFT users to accept what is a basic photographic fact. Have a look in the Nex forums, the Nikon CX or APS forums , the Canon M forum, the Canon APS forum few beyond absolute beginners have any difficulty understanding equivalence. Yet for mFT is it tantamount to heresy lol
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/2666934640/what-is-equivalence-and-why-should-i-care
http://admiringlight.com/blog/full-frame-equivalence-and-why-it-doesnt-matter/
That explains it correctly, while dpreview only lies and promote same false claims as Tony Northrup.
I was going to reply with exactly the same link. That is a very nice article and it spanks. Well let’s say at least DPR doesn’t accuse camera makers of printing focal length and f/ on lenses, which was considered cheating by that Tony guy.
Most people in the m3/4rds community understand equivalency, that is not where the problem lies. The problem lies with people bringing it up when it just doesn’t matter, and also in people who don’t really understand i (or just as often who don’t know how to explain it well) confusing newbies with very bad explanations of equivalency.
The other problem lies with something related to what this video was saying. You say that equivalency is a “…basic photographic fact”. You are of course correct, it is basic, it is related to photography, and it is a fact. However, TONS of things that users of “FF” cameras don’t spend 10 seconds thinking about in their entire lives are also basic photographic facts, for other formats. If you shoot “FF” 135 format cameras (Canon, Nikon, etc.) I have to ask…. How much time do you spend doing equivalency calculations for your camera in comparison to Phase One “Full Frame” cameras? If your answer is no time at all, then congratulations, you now understand precisely how unimportant equivalency is most of the time. It doesn’t matter to you because what matters to you is what the gear you can use can do for you, and similarly it only matters to m4/3rds users what the gear they use can do for them. Equivalency is a basic photography fact, and it is also almost entirely unimportant and irrelevant. You should understand it if you frequently discuss other formats with other people for whatever reason, or if switching formats and needing to know what to expect from lenses when you do so, but when it comes to actually being a photographer it doesn’t matter at all.
“Those who can’t, teach”.
Equivalence is a fact of life for all formats , for some odd reason almost uniquely mFT users cannot seem to understand it , Olympus users in particular.
Seems that only Olympus users has seen the truth, others still denying the fact that Crop Factor == Focal Length Factor and nothing else. No aperture factor, no noise factor, no sensor technology factor, no electronics factor and so on.
ps. I own 5D Mk II
When you make things up like “Aperture Equivalence”, that is simply wrong and has intended misleading in it. “OMG! I don’t want to use a f/3.6 lens! it will kill all my nice night shots and all my creamy bokaii with such a slow aperture ” Possible newbie photographers’ reaction after watching that Tony guy’s equivalent nonsense.
By the way, crop is crap for those that value that extra smidge of shallow DOF. Full frame is crap for those who value large files such as what a massive LF camera can give them. It’s all crap until you reference it to what the photographer wants to do. People don’t just shoot LF because it gives them more resolution either. Tilt shift functions, slowing your photography down, etc. Come on, seriously? You could have mentioned any of this.
I think Zack is a little biased: just look at Fuji camera “catwalk” toward the end of the video, it just looks like a sponsored video and distracts from the good points he makes during it.
Above all, he’s right when he says that the person behind the camera is more important than the camera itself, and a LF camera is a cold beast.
It’s funny how he mimics gearheads pixel peeping or comparing DXO numbers (btw, DXO can’t measure XTrans sensors..).
And I agree with you: that stick is so annoying! If I were one of his assistants I would already have hidden it.
Well- for instance- some of us don’t like how fuji renders their files. I know Steve Huff is one who would agree. I appreciate how Olympus renders their files more and the overall system as a whole. Hats off to fuji though for their constant firmware updates and implementing more features based on user feedback.
Pot meet kettle…. Biased?
Even though he gets a check from Fuji when they have him do a project, he’s far from biased. In fact, he doesn’t even like the XE-1/2. Robin Wong Loves everything from Olympus, even if it’s crap. There’s a big difference of getting the occasional check, and actually working for them
I prefer someone who says clearly that he’s getting paid by a Company, to someone who puts a 3 minutes advertisment at the end of an interesting video.
Just to say that at least I know how to consider his thoughts.
I’m not spitting on your Fuji nor Panasonic… 😉
So you like being lied to, when a product really isn’t all that, yet robin claims that it is? There has not been one review from Robin, not ONE, that was even slightly negative about Olympus. He even claimed some cameras better than the competition, when they clearly werent!
Well, at least he finishes his reviews.. Still waiting on the GX7 review by a certain paid spokesperson ..
No, I’m still able to use my brain. 😉
I think Wong is just a happier guy, maybe he gets discounts buying from Olympus since he works for it.
I very much liked his video. Especially the stick as…. you need stick instead carrots to tell the fact. So long time already (decade) the small format fans has been claiming stupid things.
And people follow those stupid claims blindly. No matter how many times it has been told nicely, they always bring the same flaws like “Total Light gathering” and other crap. It is like trying to listen a christian about why christianity is good and not believing God is bad. After while you just want to take a stick and give them a lesson.
People really should see that he is acting there, but seems he does it so well that morans behind camera gets annoyed when their small format camera isn’t promoted.
Yeah. I wish though that someone starts making TS-adapters with real quality. Not those 300-400$ ones with limited momvement and tons of internal reflections.
And I don’t think it’s wrong to openly admit that resolution and file quality is one major consideration when shooting larger formats. It’s just a fact.
Yes , all you get with the best FF compared to the best mFT, is better DOF control , better DR, much better low ISO shadow noise, much better high ISO , higher resolution and best of all you do not need to spend $1600 on a Panasonic 42,5mm to get the same DOF as an 85mm F2.4.
I’m not arguing with that one. That’s why I still have all my full frame glass. For 1600 I can get practically any slightly used zeiss lens for less with more DOF. I guess it all depends on what you value.
Just replace every “much” with “2 times” or “1.41 times” and your post would be quantitative. Now, does that factor of 2 make a difference?
I’ll take the liberty to decide for myself.
Well done Apple – Stylus 1 introduced October 2013; OM-D E-M10 January 2014 – better late than never
Ricoh 7mm 2.6 for M43? I would like to see that happen… but not too sure it will.
This lens is for Projector. It can be possible for M43, but diameter is 89.5mm quite huge.
Thanks. I guess your Japanese is better than mine. 89.5 diameter? That would indeed be an awkward design for a m43 lens.
Haha by that live music video this guy Flammaboi says: The colour between the cameras was a bit different and it took some effort to match the colours but I did eventually manage it: and then you watch the video and it’s black & white. 😀
7mm f2.6 YES PLEASE !!!
Does that “crop or crap” presenter have a low IQ? His speech has such a low information density, high religion rate, and no original content. I assume his therapist advised him to produce this anger release video as part of rehabilitation treatment.
repetition not religion – annoying autocorrect…
Well, it was funny and somewhat informative.
Never before I have seen so many film formats in a line-up. Gives a nice perspective of the technological progress.
But considering your tone, I gather you are one of those FF fanbois/equivalence brigade types at whom the video was targeted. Still worth repeating: NEGLIGIBLE. NEGLIGIBLE. NEGLIGIBLE.
Though, overall, it made me think of the potential next sensor breakthrough might bring to us. If cheap manufacturing processes (e.g. printable chips) would finally materialize, then we could potentially have an affordable (or even DIY w/ 3D printer) 6×4.5 or even 8×10 digital cameras.
No, I’m not a FF fanboy. I’m very happy with my GH3. My tone was aimed at the very low information throughput in that video. To make my point, perhaps I should have re-stated my previous sentence 20 times, each in a slightly different way. Maybe such repetition would have made my post more humorous.
That Graflex 4×5 camera made me feel depressed as it was my next project to go into 4×5. Unfortunately i have no gear at all right now 🙁
Very funny! Now let’s start making pictures. Who’s in?
One of the things the bearded one annoyingly failed to mention is that in relation to resolution, film and digital are not equivalent. A 35mm digital sensor is nothing like a 35mm piece of film. I would guess it is much closer to medium format.
He also failed to mention that a very significant proportion of commercial/professional photography last century was done on 35mm film, not just MF. Ergo, for many commercial/professional uses, 35mm film was deemed ‘good enough’.
I used to shoot 35mm film. Then I got a 4000 dpi film scanner and would scan my slides and negatives until the thing died. I then got an E-M5 with the 12-50mm. I discovered that when that lens is set to macro mode, it can very handily be used to ‘scan’ 35mm slides, so I built a crude but effective device that would let me do that.
The reason I mention this is that it soon became clear to me that the scans I got this way easily matched or bettered the ones I got from my Polaroid 4000 dpi scanner. It was also quite clear that a modern 3/4 sensor has a good bit more resolution than 35mm film does (Fuji Velvia/Provia), and that was just using the 12-50mm!
In terms of resolution, I think 4/3 is the new 35mm, and 35mm is the new MF. last century, most amateur and a lot of professional photographers found 35mm to be adequate and found the bulk and cost of MF equipment to be excessive. I think many 4/3 users feel the same way about 35mm.
These days I wonder how many 35mm DSLR shooters have printers capable of A1 and larger prints or get such done commercially – my guess would be less than 1:100,000.
4/3 is much better than 35mm film. For anyone that doesn’t remember the era, 400 ISO color print film is only usable for 4×6 inch prints. 8×10 prints are too grainy. So people used 100 ISO film for better quality but most people didn’t care. Slide film or B&W were the only films capable of prints larger than 8×10. 35mm film is more comparable to a cell phone camera.
Looks like my comment about how horrible this video was deleted. Suprise suprise. God forbid anyone speaks their mind. The comment wasn’t insulting…it was personal perspective and I thought the video was pretentious and nerve grating. To much? Ok, flowers and skittles and rainbows….now everything is ok right? I even gave reason as to why this video shouldn’t have been made. If the M43 community wants to advance itself it needs to stop giving credence to artificial arguments such as that presented in the above video, present relevant information and show your work! That’s what makes believers. If the video’s author wants to chime in please do- I’d welcome it. And again, get rid of the stick for crying out loud.
Wow, if the video annoyed you that much, I wonder how you react to things that are actually important in life…
Calm, cool and collected. Thanks for asking.
I think the whole extention was to get on certain people’s nerves.
Guess it worked.
Can’t stop watching this video!!!!! In one word: “ELBIGILGEN” ….genius!!!! XD XD