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The [shoplink 56521 ebay]Olympus Pen EED film camera[/shoplink] had a built-in viewfinder. Source: DSLRmagazine.
Trusted sources told us that on January 27 Olympus will announce the new PEN-F camera. It has a very high-resolution integrated viewfinder and the new Sony 20 megapixel MFT sensor.
Stay tuned for more details…
Preorder links to the two new MFT lenses:
Panasonic-Leica 100-400mm lens at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto and Panasonic. In EU at WexUK.
Olympus 300mm f/4.0 PRO lens at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, GetOlympus. In EU at Amazon DE. WexUK.
—
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258 Responses
Has Pen-F fixed lens or MFT-mount?
Simon said the new f1.2 lens focusses 30% faster on this PEN-F camera than the E-M1 & E-M5 II, so from that it has to be MFT mount.
He also said the PEN-F is the test bed for three new features that will also appear on the E-M1 Mk II (later in the year). I guess one of them is the 20MP sensor & maybe the higher resolution EVF & I wonder if Hi Res mode but faster than the E-M5 II for hand holding is the 3rd feature? That possibility has been hinted at from Olympus management a while ago now.
Who’s Simon if I may ask?
Simon Says? I have no idea. LOL!
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BJgAAOxyeglTW6N0/s-l1600.jpg
An occasional poster who clearly has accurate inside information.
Thank you, appreciated.
He is either an Olympus insider, knows someone inside or privvy to inside inside information some other way, but he is accurate with the information he gives. You can read his last lot of information he has given here. http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-olympus-300mm-pro-lens-will-be-announced-on-january-6-at-6am-london-time/#comment-2428815209
Pretty interesting indeed. The guy is obviously German (“und“).
Well, they have a floating sensor right now, maybe that Pen will be a floating camera? No need for a drone 🙂
A build in coffee brewer would be nice as well. Perfect for a winter stroll with a camera.
But more seriously, they should make better use of the IBIS, like Pentax does. I would love to see some more features, like for example:
– a star tracker function (like on Pentax DSLRs)
– a vibration induced AA filter simulation would be nice, since all Oly cameras have no AA filter (or have it very weak), again, like Pentax
– a sensor based tilt-shift function – sure, it would not have the same range of movement as a tilt-shift lens, but maybe that would be enough for some applications
Other ideas than that (I think there are patents for those):
– built in ND filter
– built in polarizing filter
” – a star tracker function (like on Pentax DSLRs) ”
Hmm, that certainly sounds interesting.
hmmmm….that would mean perhaps there is something going on with the AF on the new sensor, perhaps?
So he knows lenses that haven’t been released AF faster on a camera that has not been released. So far, so good. However, I hope he’s not talking about single AF lock. What we need it faster tracking and continuous AF. Single AF is fast enough, imo. So this info is next to useless.
He has always been right in the past. I think he can’t tell all he knows, simple.
maybe cross-type pdaf to make use of that new 300 f4?!
and of course my four thirds glass.. yes please!
Of course it’s not a fixed lens camera, it’s PEN afterall.
Really looking forward to checking this out.
So, New Pen, new F1.2, new trouble with my wife 🙂
Haha! Good luck 😉
New Pen, new F1.2, new wife 🙂 No trouble.
We do know a lot about the 300mm from a long time now, it would be nice to have more info about this new Pen.
The post is from Jan 7th: “On January 6th Olympus will launch the Olympus 300mm PRO lens.”
This should be a little more attainable than the 300mm Pro!
Looking forward to see this new design.
Funny how people tend to forget the price of the 300mm 2.8 Top Pro on 4/3…
I never looked at or even considered the price of the 300mm f/2.8, (even though it is an impressive optic).
Let’s face it…if you want to stay in business…you need to have a good product that sells at a reasonable price. This new lens (almost) makes sense as a viable alternative to mortgaging your house and going FF with big white $12K lenses.
The other Oly business model (Four Thirds), just did not work for large numbers of users in the photography world: money-spent/image capture.
Anyone pro was going to go FF. Not too many serious amateurs or pros were buying $6000 FT lenses. Clients want that FILE. Simple.
MFT makes more sense in its current image file vs. money spent..
I am going to wait a year and then perhaps purchase the 300mm from the Asian Market ….like I did with my 40-150mm Pro (well…I did not wait a year! LOL!).
I bet I end up getting one for about $2000 after all the intro hoopula calms down.
It’s a shame you & I can’t afford a Rolls Royce then! 😉
So, the olympus version of GM-5, maybe “on steroids”…
I would prefer a Trip-D with 4/3 sensor, weather-sealing and a fixed 40mm f/2 equiv…
Make it fully underwater capable and you’ve got me…
If there will be this new Sony 20MP sensor in the E-M1 II then I might jump out of m43. This sensor does not show anything groundbreaking new but wants to catch us with 4 more useless MPixels. I hope we will see a new 16MP sensor according to older rumors, global full electronic shutter, stacked BSI, high ISO etc. Otherwise buy an E-M10 II since there is no improvement at all where it would matter.
I don’t understand why Pan Oly don’t use an APS-C sensor in their m43 camera.
APS-C tech is far more advanced than m43, BSI, stacked etc.
There wouldn’t be too much wasted pixel area and the economy scale of production would mean probably not more expensive to produce.
It would allow full multi aspect on m43, and offer some possibilities for adapted lenses as well.
Why don’t Oly buy the superb Samsung APS-C sensor from the NX1, rather than a 4 year old tech Sony m43 sensor?
I actually agree completely…
Many M4/3 lenses except for the kit zooms can actually cover APS-C without cropping anyway…
m43 may work on APSC but they’re not designed for it. It’s like FF lenses on APSC, there are often IQ differences, for the worst, except for vignetting.
You still keep the same m43 format, cropped from an APS-C sensor.
The argument is you get a better sensor since APS-C sensor tech is far ahead of m43.
You could also have m43 multi aspect like the GH3 was.
I agree. But why not both?
No you don’t.
On pixel level, current 16mp 4/3 sensors have pretty much the same performance as modern 24mp APS-C sensors. So if you take that APS-C sensor and crop it to 4/3 size, you get the same thing as the 16mp sensors we currently use. Only you now have useless megapixels lying around not contributing to anything. Where’s the sense in that?
It would only make sense if it was to offer Super35 mode for video, and for providing multi-aspect feature for stills shooting.
The far corners would definitely be in poor shape, but I think a 4:3 crop of an APS-C frame would have little, if any, consequence. It’s only a 20% linear increase (i.e. 10% on either side of the frame) to go from M4/3 vertically.
At least give the user the ability to select the crop they want. APS-C mode or 4/3 mode.
So what would the MP count be cropping a 4:3 image out of say, the Samsung 28MP BSI sensor? probably around 20MP?
It’s technically feasible because JVC video camera LS300 has a m43 mount and an APS-C sensor
That’s Super35 actually, if I’m not mistaken. The thing is, it’s 16:9 aspect ratio, so you can actually even use lenses that do not fully cover full APS-C sensor.
APS-C or larger than 4/3 sensor in an MFT body mostly makes sense for video. And for stills, for implementing multi-aspect, like GH2 did or LX100 does today.
Errrm… Size, maybe ? Larger sensor = larger IBIS = larger body = Fujifilm sized mirroless…
You mean like the GX8, GH4 and EM1 bodies?
Even if an APSC sensor does mean that the body must be larger than typical for current M43 cameras, wouldn’t the benefits (as noted by other posters) worth it at least for the flagships of the M43 world?
Then the power consumption would go up by at least 30% for no good reason, not to mention the handling of the output, i.e. the processor has to be replaced as well. ..
Working w Samsung to cut the sensor waffle down to the M43 size is more feasible, but that’s just wishful thinking.
Since I bought a Fuji with the 56mm (cause it was cheaper with body then the 42.5 PL here!) I have been thinking the same.
I’d love to see Oly, Pana and Fuji in one System!
APS-C tech is far more advanced than m43, BSI, stacked etc.”
Only in Samsung, the rest are the same thing, probably coming off the same lines.
It would also require bugger, heavier, more expensive shutters, new, bigger and heavier IBIS, new optical stacks. But it is possible, in a camera without IBIS even easy enough, some of them (or a 3rd party, like Sigma) should have tried that. Sigma primes would cover it for sure.
@PP What makes you think they are better? They’re just larger! The recent 20MP sensor from Sony was only available from last year.
I’ve been waiting for this since I sighed deeply and bought an E-PL1 the moment it was released. Hated that steam-punk VF-2 I coughed up for, but it did work well.
Have just worked out how to work it into the arsenal. My daughter loves my old E-PL1, but covets my E-M1. She might just get her way….
It this PEN rocks…..I may have my E-PL6/VF-4 converted for B&W infrared shooting….hmmm…what wavelength….hmmmmm…… 🙂
695, 715?
Where are you going to have the conversion done? I’d like to do the same.
Marco….I have just google Infrared Conversions on Google. There are a number of companies out there that seem reputable that will do the conversion. I have no referral but thought that I would just give one a shot that seems that they are experienced. It is not terribly expensive.
Thank you Bob. I’m doing the same and I’m trying to find a (trusted) company in Europe.
Check out dslr astrotec in germany.
Thank you! (Love when people give suggestions and constructive replies on fora)
I look forward to it and the blazing 1.2’s. Now about that cost….
f/1.2=EXPENSIVE. Simple. 🙂
No problem as long as it deliver .
There is no doubt about that.
Yeah, but the f1.0 lenses would have been double the cost & double the weight (according to Simon). 😀
This is the PEN I have been waiting for, finally it sounds as though Olympus have listened to their customer base and added the integrated EVF into the body, if the EVF is as good or better than the current levels of EVF technology i’ll sell my X-pro1 & X100 to invest in the M43 system, Resolution is good enough now, high iso is sensible and usable, I do hope they stick to the classic body form and high quality controls, keeping them minimal though is the answer for me, not hundreds of buttons like the EM5 MKII, stick to the 3 main ones, shutter, aperture via front or thumb wheel, & exposure comp, everything else should be accessed via a Q menu . I think the EVF is the main selling point here though, the bigger they make it the better, fast refresh rate then it will be a winner and give a real alternative to the Fuji’s & Panasonics out there.
I agree, and have been holding off on buying the e-m10II waiting for this Pen F… could be a great accompaniment to my nice e-pl7.
And what do we really think this will offer over the Panasonics and Fujis?
Cameras aren’t that different anymore, in the end it all comes down to brand favoritism
Olympus has a ton of tricks up its sleeves for photo. Live Composite, Live view, in camera stacking, in body IS, etc.
I might be biased a bit towards Olympus but I think they have better bodies for photo in u4/3s while Panasonic has the edge for video.
I thought that too for a long time (and I thought the Oly lenses were way superior too, since Olympus is in the photo business for a long time).
Thing is: that was before I even tried the Panasonics.
Now I can say: they are at least as good. For tracking for example they are way better. And their lenses are superb!
Might have to give Panny bodies a shot. I just find the Olympus ones extremely nice (really dig the retro styling).
Regardless, I’m happy to have invested in u43.
Well partly you are right. But Olympus is milking the cow as much as it can. If there was no Fujifilm or other competition we would still be waiting for any PEN-F like camera. I would say we would wait forever.
Hopefully PEN-F will finally be usefull from the begining and will not include many other things that break its functionality. So no failing aperture wheels, no breaking EVF, no huge shutter shock and no visible banding when shooting around 1/250s shutter speeds (in other words when sensor read out is activated) !!! All these were killing my top model E-P5 usability.
Cheers
I would prefer a new-design shutter… with shuttershock higher resolution sensor and pro lenses are not so great with 1/60-1/125 speeds.
Internal viewfinder is nice, but I think Fuji takes a step ahead in this form factor with x-pro 2.
“my X-pro1 & X100 to invest in the M43 system, Resolution is good enough now… stick to the 3 main ones, shutter, aperture via front or thumb wheel,
& exposure comp, everything else should be accessed via a Q menu .”
Sounds like you want X-E2s. Why switch systems?
Because the M43 system offers more lens choice, that are smaller and in some cases better built than their fuji counterparts, also for some reason I prefer the shallow rendering on the M43 system as opposed to the fuji’s, nuts I know, but take the panaleica 25mm 1.4 on M43 compared to the 35mm 1.4 Fujinon. To my eyes the Panasonic renders nicer (not sharper) than the fuji, the images have more of a Leica like 3d rendering than the fuji does, more please to MY eye personally. Also AF is way beyond what Fuji has, am tired of waiting for the af to lock on on my Fuji’s, when it’s almost instantaneous with the current M43 systems
20MP sensor from Sony sounds impressive , should be better than in the GX8 .
Let’s wait & see how thing turn out .
How do you know GX8’s sensor is not from Sony?
Even if it is, Olympus will produce better JPEGs than Panasonic.
Pana had improved their JPEGs significantly a few years ago (around the time of GH3 release).
Not so sure. When go back to look at the pictures from the 12mp sensor of the prev gen, they are better in some ways than the current one. Oly is not always keeping up its mojo.
Simple .
Because 4/3 rumors never report it .
Which doesn’t prove anything.
Yun needs no proof ..
There will be no 4K. Sorry.
Why?
Because Olympus. Hell, they can’t even make 70Mbps 1080p look as good as Panny’s 28Mbps 1080p. I’d like Oly to resolve that first.
Only EM 1 Mark II
If they add a built-in EVF and 5-axis stabilization, then how will they differentiate PEN and OM-D?
probably simpler controls, forego weather sealing (as on low end OM-D) and fewer dedicated accessories maybe
basically just the rangefinder styling that many prefer…and the EP series is built to a higher standard than the EPL series…
Will PEN-F be the successor of PEN E-P5?
With it being used as a test bed for features to show up on the E-M1 Mk II, I hope so (being a replacement for the E-P5).
I’m hoping they can finally get the Pen right this time, albeit 2-3 years late. Add a builtin EVF, keep the package small (GM sized) with simple controls, include a proper mechanical and electronic shutter, offer it packaged with 17 1.8 or 14-42 EZ and price it at no more than $599. If they manage that, this could be the perfect carry every day camera for current m4/3 users like us and could entice new users who would otherwise go to sony or fuji. I like Olympus, always have but my guess is they’re going to blow it again by either pricing this thing too high or by omitting a key feature both of which would prevent it from being useful and competitive.
I dont think it’s going to be a budget camera. It should be a higher end rangefinder IMO.
GM5 sizing is too small for me, as was the EPM2. I have a GF7 and it’s kind of a fun take and go. But thats about it.
I’d be okay if it is $999 at launch body only like the GX7 was.
That’s what I’m thinking – 899-999
Pen F with new 20 MP sensor, built-in EVF …. and the 17mm f1.8 (which is already $399) for only $599. That would be on my wish list too but probably not a realistic price point.
I picked up my E-P5 on sale recently and am really stoked about how nice this camera is to shoot with. It feels like they got a lot right already with this PEN. The twin dials make me feel right at home and the control work-flow reminds me of my E-M1. I bought the E-M1 knowing that Olympus would probably replace it within a year and the E-P5 the same thing. You can indulge yourself and save a lot of money by waiting if you don’t absolutely need the latest and best.
Don’t think I have ever seen anyone ever say Olympus has priced anything except too high.
Better expect $1000, so the chance you’ll be financially disappointed is just a little bit smaller.
Why stop at $599 when the lens currently is at $399, why not demand a camera at $399 – same price as the lens, or $299 where you make a profit of $100 by buying the camera. Good night in chu chu land.
“current m4/3 users like us”
Don’t put me into the same bucket as you sit. It’s already filled with your pipe dreams.
Olympus will give it for free after a 3 days marketing lessons.. 🙂
Ha.. I’ll be so generous as to give them a week of marketing lessons if they promise me an E-M1 II when it launches
The 14-42EZ lens is $150 with most of their cameras, and it is not really more expensive to make than their regular 14-42 II which they give out for $50. The extra zoom motor costs maybe $1 (see all the $50 P&S with zoom motors).
a3000, with bigger (more expensive) sensor and bigger (more expensive) shutter and bigger (more expensive) 18-55 lens was $300.
E-PL6 is $200. Add the EVF, it is easily $300 at most (even the external VF-3 is $99 retail, $85 shipped from Japan, the new huge VF-4 which will not be able to integrate in a PEN is $135 on ebay, new).
17/1.8 should be $149 at most retail. There is no reason it should be significantly more expensive than Pana 25/1.7 or Oly 14-42 II or 40-150/4-5.6, there is no more glass or mechanics there.
The 17mm lens is of MUCH better quality than that meh 25mm f2 lens (I say F2 because it is unacceptably blurry at f1.7). I know the 17mm lens isn’t the sharpest for m43’s, but it is better than the images I’ve seen of the 25mm f1.7.
Any tests to confirm it? Like lenstip, with numbers? For 17/1.8, they are so-so, especially in the corners.
Settle down dude… Don’t give yourself an aneurysm here. We’re just talking cameras.
Truth be told I am not pining for nor dreaming of nor going to buy a $500 PEN-F for myself even if Olympus decides to make one (which they won’t). I require features my OM-D offers and my dough is already earmarked toward either a 300 f4 or PL 100-400…. yes I’m in the camp that knows the prices for those lenses (and other m4/3 winners like the 45 1.2, 75 1.8, 40-150 2.8 and even the 12 f2) are justified given the product quality.
I was just making a statement that I would like to see Olympus reassess their Pen strategy because their current one of stagnate development, high prices and no viewfinder doesn’t seem to be working out so well. The OM-D commands the Olympus camera line and starts in the mid to upper hundreds with the E-M10 II. If Olympus is intent on splitting it’s resources to keep the PEN alive I think it needs to work hard to gain serious consideration from new camera buyers who otherwise seem to be defaulting to entry level DSLRs or APS-C mirrorless.
Make the PEN a winner by building something new that really embodies the benefits of m4/3. A small camera that can be pocketable with the right lens, feature packed with viewfinder plus only essential buttons and dials and priced aggressively. Offering a choice between 2 not so new lens designs (assume manufacturing costs returned by now and let’s face it, for their respective optical qualities, both lenses are over priced as stand alone) but 2 options that offer clear wow factors to buyers who have educated themselves enough about cameras so as not be totally confused when shopping… Choice of either a super slim, pocketable pancake that’s also a 3X zoom!!! or lens with f1.something on the barrel!!!
Seems to me such a move could help expand the m4/3 user base and maybe in a year or 2 we might actually see some PENs on the street again.
It’ll be
1. bigger than the GM5
2. more expensive that $599
Oly won’t put a small EVF in this PEN, and they need space for the IBIS. Otherwise you’d have the GM5 and that camera already exists …
Are we going to see any of the more ground breaking stuffs from Oly this year, like
–sensors w global shutter
–handheld high res mode
The PenF sounds nice but it’s more like re-assembly of the existing pieces, even w the 20mp sensor. Doubt it would bring in the latest Epson viewfinder, that would consume too much power.
Well, if all you’re saying is true, and even without any groundbreaking stuff, I’m still interested.
Global shutter will come from a company that has deeper sensor tech knowledge. This is one these things that are so fabled, I doubt it’ll be simply announced as part of a product. It’l be huge before that.
Olympus does R&D for sensors, has been for decades. They just don’t have factories to do mass production. And if someone offers a compromised sensor for cheaper price, they can take it if no one is willing to manufacture sensor by Olympus designs.
Oly can order custom made wafer from FAB specialty companies, it can add additional capabilities through “packaging”
“Are we going to see any of the more ground breaking stuffs from Oly this year, like–sensors w global shutter”
Olympus does not produce sensors. But if they wanted, they could have ordered a sensor with global shutter from Sony, Aptina, Omnivision or whomever they wanted. The problem, as they currently made (with separate charge-holding “pixels”), they increase read noise and cost, and to make it properly (with photon counters, or ADCs in each pixel) you need multi-layer tech and innovation.
Apparently you missed the report(s) last yr re. Oly’s success building GS on top of a BSI sensor in its R&D dvision. I brought it to the attention of the admin here, my post at DPR:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56532713
Also as Oly shows, no need for per pixel ADC.
It seems to me it is the regular design with charge storage, just multilayer instead of in-plane. It is still not digital storage (as for photon counters), and as such will introduce extra read noise (should lose at least 1 bit/EV of DR) at the charge moving stage.
What I really want is this photon-counting scheme:
1) 1 big photodiode per pixel, no color matrix
2) 3 transistors per pixel, connected to the photodiode in parallel:
2.1) first opens for any charge on the photodiode,
2.2) second opens for the photons with energy above yellow-green threshold, and blocks the first one
2.3) third opens for photons with energy above green-blue threshold, and blocks the first two
3) 3 counter registers connected to the transistors, probably 16 bit each to compensate for the lack of non-linearity, maybe even 18-20 bits with 16 of those available for readout (which 16 should be switchable depending on “ISO”)
4) completely digital readout and initialization, with fast SRAM or DRAM interface.
Of course, it is possible to subtract green and blue from red digitally and not block the addition in analogue part, but it would require an extra bit for “green” register and extra 2 bits for “red” to preserve their DR. Depending on specifics of implementation, it might be a better solution.
Your scheme requires multiple global gate operations. Unless going organic, it won’t happen. As for read noise, the improvement of moving storage unit and wiring to the backside increase the diode area, I’m hopeful this new sensor if ever gets done, will have good improvement over the existing FSI ones.
“Your scheme requires multiple global gate operations. Unless going organic, it won’t happen.”
What organic has to do with it? Such a sensor (especially if having reasonable resolution, like the one in A7s) would still require fewer transistors than Xeons or modern graphics processors (especially given that the digital part, the counters/memory, could and should be on a separate chip, stacked, like RS line of Sony.
“As for read noise, the improvement of moving storage unit and wiring to the backside increase the diode area”
Storage diodes are usually off the illuminated part of the sensor anyway, on periphery of it if it is single layer.
Unfortunately, when charge is transferred to the storage, big part of it is lost (easily half), leading to both worse DR and worse low light performance.
My scheme would eliminate color filters, improving low light performance by about a stop instead, and eliminate charge transfer, partially compensating for additional heat from the 3 amplifying transistors and digital circuitry.
The digital part should also be fast enough to count incoming photons, which for bright light might be a problem even at 4GHz (and blocking in the analogue part would help with that), limiting maximum size of the pixels.
But I think the biggest limitation is energy consumption.
Both Fuji and Invisage’s new sensor technologies use the organic material to provide the global gate operation as you described, not unsimilar to the older implementations that use liquid crystal.
Modern GS implementations on the back of BSI sensor are highly quantum efficient. If you check the numbers on Sony IMX174, you’ll find that has QE >75% and better DR than its non GS/BSI peers, and lower dark currents.
I am looking forward to this camera very much. I hope the size is somewhere between the Panasnic GM5 and the OMD EM10 ( both of which I currently have).
If so I think it will be my next camera.
No .
It will be around EP5 & GX7 size .
Somewhere in size around the EP5 or GX7 would suit me fine. I find the GX8 to be too large a camera for me personally. I have a EM10 and i know that many folks likely think it is a small camera, and compared to many a camera it is. I think i would carry it around more if it didn’t have the extra height from SLR like hump fir the viewfinder. Feature wise i like the EM10 more than my GM5, plus i like the fact the Oly has IBIS.
So for me the pending Oly Pen-F looks like it might just hit the sweet spot. Looking forward to seing and reading about the new Pen at the end of the month.
will be bigger than EPL7 for sure
It uses the larger Olympus battery. If it uses the new Epson EVF, it is larger than the EVF uses in the current OMD cameras. So it will be EP% or GX7 size and might be closer to GX8 size. It will not be GM5 size.
Let ‘s hope it will have the same battery as the current EM body line-up
It does have the E-M1, E-M5 MkII battery. The battery type was in the government license permit for the Pen F.
The 20mpix sensor is not so new, it was listed on Sony site AT LEAST 9 months ago (probably more), and used in GX8 8 months ago. Engineering samples of it should have been available years ago, Oly was just too slow (or too busy releasing useless rehashes like Stylus1s, E-PL6, E-PL7, E-M5II, E-M10II), or trying to unload their stockpiles (or contractually obligated quantities) of IMX159.
It’s latest in Olympus world .
You have completely new sensor than any of OMD series .
Should make you proud to walk around in Olympus cities .
its your last point. Likely unloading as much of their older 16MP stock as they could before putting out the “newer” 20MP stock.
Sony 20MP doesn’t have PDAF (so not a likely choice for E-M1, not that it was ready then).
E-M5 II was probably in development for a fair while and implementing high res with a brand new sensor would likely have caused delays.
E-M10 II and low end Pens are not going to get the newest sensor before the higher end.
Olympus don’t have any control over when Sony release new sensors and this one didn’t time out well with product releases. However is perfect for a new high end Pen.
“Sony 20MP doesn’t have PDAF (so not a likely choice for E-M1, not that it was ready then).”
The sensor itself (silicon) does not need anything special for PDAF. OSPDAF is implemented by special mask in the optical stack above the sensor, and fast partial readout of those masked pixels (all sensors allow partial readout, for video, live view, digital zoom etc).
And that is, of course, why they went with a Panasonic sensor in the E-M1?
Panasonic has exactly 0 cameras with PDAF, they obviously did not develop a special sensor for it.
Probably the Pana had faster readout than the Sony IMX159 available at the time.
Although I have yet to see a definite confirmation that sensor is a Pana. The performance (image quality) difference might be due to the different mask, with OSPDAF pixels.
if this is true and oly doesn’t botch it and puts a quality [ not a field sequential crap one like panny] evf in the corner position and decent controls ina robust well built body with a classic design without poorly realized design updates ….then this will be my first oly body since many a fuji purchase
this is the camera they should have produced back in 2009 instead of the ep1 …..they are only 7 years late to the party
Field Sequential is not crap. It is even better than oled evf’s. Oled has color filters like convential LCD/TFT monitors and produces aliasing. Because of the color filter you get only a third of the stated pixel-resolution and black gaps between the pixels (fly screen effect). Field sequential gives you true RGB-pixels and not RGB-subpixels as oled. Oled is only used more and more, because its more compact, cheaper to produce and can be used with polarized sun glasses. But field squential has way more sharpness, better color accuracy and wider color spectrum/color gamut. Some are worried about the rainbow effect, but it is a minor disadvantage against the said advantages before and very little present for the majority of people.
(p.s.: it is very similar to foveon vs. bayer sensor)
In the graphic below you can see how it works for this example pattern:
RGB
BRG
GBR
different strokes for different folks ….personally i returned my gx7 after a week due to the color tearing phenomenon i experenced .looking thru the evf …your mileage may vary …..further i was completely psyched to buy a panny lx100….but after handling one at b and h photo and seeing the same issue i decided not to…to pannys credit they put a non feild seq. evf in the gx8….which i passed on buying due to its bloated size …..cheers from nyc
The tearing is due to Panasonics subpar EVF optics ask Mr.Allcaps about it.
To be fair, the EVF in the GX8 is freaking fantastic. Not field sequential thank goodness.
i didnt realize it was sharper and had a foveon over bayer type advantage …….thanks for that info
Foveon also has disadvantages over Bayer… much like field sequential has disadvantages over OLED. I could not stand the EVF in the GX7, it was like playing an FPS game without V-sync at under 30FPS with lots of lag and tearing. The G6’s OLED finder was leaps and bounds better because it did not have these issues. So even if field sequential is technically better, if they cannot resolve the lag or screen tearing, it needs to stay on the drawing board and not in a camera.
Let the masturb… fantasizing begin! ?
LOL! It’s so true!
Handheld hires will be a GX8 killer, any word on that or they saving it for the OMD?
maybe a real competitor to the Panasonic GM7 or GX8 (compact rangefinder body with evf) ?
I own 3 M43 cameras, a slew of lenses and love the system. That said:
I wish the “F” stood for a fixed lens, full frame 40mm fast pancake to battle the Q,and RX1 with Oly IBIS.
That’s what I was hoping and thinking too (except I would add the word “equivalent”), but it seems to be a regular m43 mount camera. Still interesting, but then surely we’re still supposed to get that fixed lens version a bit later….. 😉
I also hope to see a fixed lens pen. Is it that hard to produce a 24mm – 120mm (35mm equivalent) with fixed aperture?
If it would have a zoom I would be totally disappointed. The 35mm ~ 40mm fov equivalent fixed prime part of the story is what makes it interesting in my opinion.
You could always stick a prime on it with superglue or just pretend it was fixed.
That’s rather different. Then they’d have to make the body / sensor design compatible with all avaliable lenses vs just this specific lens / body / sensor integrated and optimised holy trinity kind of design.
That would be a different camera., with a different designation. Not PEN.
Historically, yes. But one rumor said this would be “a very different kind of Pen.”
FF would qualify. And a fixed lens would be a quick and easy leap into the new format, like Fuji did with X100.
As i think the grand prize in this olympus contest will be this new pen, and it talks of a lens kit, it seems it will have a removable lens, but maybe as they dont talk about any specific may this pen f be a full frame camera? is it really confirmed to be a mft?
Because the “F” in “pen f” is intriguing me, since omd means “om” digital…
http://gopc.olympus-imaging.com/
Well i heard from my camera fretailer there wll be a presentation in barcelona day 15th, so lets wait to see what happens
That will be a Trip 35 instead of PEN F.
You’re right. WAY better branding there
I am excited about this new PEN. Haven’t had another Oly since my original E-P1.
Then this new PEN should impress you in everywhere .
Time to replace the EP1 .
Do you happen to know something we do not know? 🙂
You don’t need inside knowledge to know that the difference between EP1 and Pen F will be huge 🙂
Rangefinder looks (something like mini leica, more elegant and smaller than gx8), 5 axis, quick and high resolution evf….
….and if it is happen…i sold
Yeah, a GX7 from Oly would be nice: better EVF, better IBIS, EFCS.
But Oly IMO always compromises on the grip. Why I dislike the whole OMD series: grip too small and slippery; the add-on grip changes little, since the space between lens and grip is still too small. It is likely that the PEN-F would have the same crappy grip of the OMDs.
Pana with the GX7 did the unthinkable and the ingenious: they made the grip longer. Solved a lot of problems with only extra 6mm (compared to GX1) in one dimension.
I doubt Oly after the success of the OMD would change the formula though: they found a way to charge literally every OMD owner extra $100 premium for a grip for the camera.
The E-M5 with grip could only be described as slippery if you and it were submerged in mud. My E-M1 came with a grip. Actually so did my E-M5 as Oly bundled the two grips at no extra cost.
You have likely never owned an OM-D and are in fact a Panasonic user.
{ Most of what follow was discussed ad nauseam on all m43 forums so we do not need to repeat it all. }
“My E-M1 came with a grip. Actually so did my E-M5 as Oly bundled the two grips at no extra cost.”
No E-M5 kit – mk1 or mk2 – sold in Germany has the optional grip at no extra cost. But I’ve seen several more expensive offers. (Just checked E-M1 kits – ditto.)
“The E-M5 with grip could only be described as slippery […]”
Which I didn’t. I said that it is uncomfortable because, as I have said “the space between lens and grip is too small”.
“You have likely never owned an OM-D […]”
Indeed, I have never owned. But two of my friends have the E-M5 mk1 and I have plenty of chances to use it. No grip attached – slippery. Grip attached – fingers jammed between the grip and the lens.
“[…] and are in fact a Panasonic user.”
Indeed. After trying several times to start liking the E-M5 (I come from Oly 43 cameras after all; I tried hard), I simply went and pre-ordered the GX7 on the day it was announced. Because I got tired waiting for Oly to release any decent successor to the E-30 or the E-620/E-520.
As someone new to photography, I didn’t have any complaints about the em5ii grip until I realised what I was missing when I bought the portrait grip bundle…just so much nicer to work with, (and now my I can mount my nocticron on a tripod (it used to hit the release plate))
DFD: Hopefully PEN-F will have a better C-AF. Most wanted would be an extended m43 Standard Definition including DFD Method. Customers would like to use Panasonic and Olympus lenses with support DFD: of DFD Autofocus.
I have decided to rethink my whole photographic strategy . I am going to leave the mass-appliance maker cameras’s behind ind switch over to a real camera company. Olympus. This to PEN could me my photographic salvation!
MrTONGUE-IN-CHEEK ??
I really hope Olympus gets this right. I switched to Fuji in 2012, but I have always said that if Olympus came out with an E-P with an integrated VF, I would be sold. And no, mrsmallcaps, the GX7/GX8 is not that camera. I still want that old-school look and feel that Fuji and the E-P series captures so well.
If they came out with an E-P model with integrated VF, wouldn’t it look very much like the E-M10?
that’s in their OMD line. I like the aesthetics of the pen series. I’m not saying it would take better photos, but I’ve been happy with digital sensors and image quality for the last 4 years. For me, it’s all about refining the other elements. So, the other side of this is if Fuji could build the X-E2/3 to the same build standard as the X-T1, that would also fit the bill.
I have never participated in any photography blog anywhere at any time. I have decided to do so now because of my anticipated enthusiasm of Olympus’s upcoming announcement of the modern version of their original 1960’s Pen-F camera. I have appreciated the rangefinder form for many years, and I have an original Pen-F camera with several lenses for it. Olympus Engineer Mr. Maitani Yoshihisa designed this beautiful form factor and incredibly engineered and crafted photographic tool which was very modern and innovative in its day.
I’m an avid EVF user, so I never bought into the current PEN series for that reason. I’ve been waiting for Olympus to include one, and according to current rumors, the new PEN-F will have a very good one. In the mean time I acquired an Olympus OMD EM5 Mark II. I’m not a vid shooter, but I really liked how the Mark II has a fully articulated screen, which makes so much sense to me to be able flip the screen back on itself and have it not showing at all, which keeps it fully protected when not in use, and for making vertical images from down low or up high. I’m hoping the new PEN-F has one.
Another thing I appreciate about the Original Pen-F design is that it was a half-frame camera. The light projecting on the focal plane is very close to todays MFT formula of light projecting on the sensor. I find that my original lenses work nicely on Olympus’s MFT bodies while taking advantage of focus peaking and focus magnification.
I tried the new Panasonic/Lumix XG8 hoping that it would quench my desire for a modern camera with a rangefinder form and integrated EVF and fully articulating screen, but it didn’t do it for me. I really liked the GX8 EVF, the fast focus, the fully articulated screen with texture matching the camera body, but I felt the dang thing was larger than my idea of how large a MFT rangefinder style body should be, and the in-camera stabilization was not up to par when using Olympus lenses. Glad Panasonic/Lumix missed the mark for this photographer … I think the upcoming Olympus Pen-F may hit my bullseye.
I wholeheartedly agree with your wishes for the new Pen-F (articulating screen, size…). Additionally, I don’t think that, in 2016, 4K would be such an outlandish wish anymore (Panasonic, Sony, late Samsung, modern mobile phones… even… *gasp*… Nikon (d500) have 4K now!). Weathersealing would be the icing on the cake.
So, let’s enumerate the unknowns about this camera:
1) Will it have 4k (the Sony IMX269 is certainly capable of it, from full frame crop at 30fps).
2) Will it have OSPDAF (if not, will lose against the old a6000 and even X-E2 again)
3) Shutter – 1/4000 or 1/8000 (probably 1/8000).
4) weather-sealing (probably not)
5) Price (probably overpriced, at $800-1000 or so, and as such will lose market to a6000, let alone the upcoming a6100, just like E-P5 and GX7/8 did).
What they need to have a winner:
1) $350 for body only, $450 for
kit with 14-42EZ, $499 for kit with 17/1.8, $799 for kit with 12-40/2.8
(price is the most important consideration in this market segment)
2) OSPDAF at 12 fps (just to one-up Sony) for stills
3) 4k, with AF-C based on OSPDAF (no hunting) from full sensor 16:9 crop
4) built-in flash
5) body under 400g
+$50 if it is weather-sealed (good added value for a few 1-cent rubber strips).
Probability of this happening without major firings in Olympus photo division management? 0.
Is contrast AF not fast and accurate enough ?
For C-AF – NO. It simply hunts all the time. For stills, when you objects moves towards you or from you, CDAF passes the object and tries to return to the plane of focus where it achieved maximum contrast, only to find that object is not there anymore, so it tries to follow it and passes it again and everything repeats.
For video, it just goes back and forth incessantly to confirm that object did not move, creating very disturbing effect in the process (and given that most AF lenses breathe, it creates changes to the whole frame, not just to the parts going in and out of focus).
Even including C-AF in CDAF-only cameras is a fraud.
As a Leica and Fuji X user I’ll probably not buy this if it’s another M43 with modern retro styling in silver coated plastic. However if they do release a quality metal built PEN F with a sensible sized sensor and lenses that can resolve to it I’d be interested. I have the original PEN F which I still use, and I love everything about it. It is one of the most joyful cameras I’ve tried. So please Olympus, don’t settle for anything less than amazing, even if you have to charge £2k for it.
lol
“sensible sized sensor”
it’s a m43 camera. Get over it.
Fuji X is APS-C, PEN F is 18×24.
How less sensible can a M4/3 sensor be?
Can I filter off all the comments related with MrALLcaps?
I wish!
I love my EM-10, but this will be a replacement if it has a) higher usable ISO, and b) better, more configurable focus peaking.