A couple of 43rumors readers linked me to the latest post written by Bradley Cox on the Olympus E community flickr forum. Obviously I cannot guarantee the info he got from his “source” is correct. But if the info is correct than there is a good reason to be excited:
“During the interdiction phase of a workshop I attended the instructor talked about how he was leaving Nikon and going to move to Olympus. He said the Oly rep who had contacted him talked about the next OM D, and that it was a collaboration between Olympus Sony and Fuji and that the was going to have something like 15 stops of latitude and offer much more than anything we have seen to date. He is a well know national photographer. He was excited to see my gear. It left me very excited about whats next. Said it would be out this year.“
I rated this rumor as FT2 because I still didn’t get reliable info from trusted sources about the possible dynamic range of the new OMD. All I know is that the camera is definitely not the E-M5 successor and it’s going to be announce din September along other new cameras and lenses!
—
For sources: Sources can send me anonymous info at 43rumors@gmail.com (create a fake gmail account) or via contact form you see on the right sidebar. Thanks!
For readers: Don’t miss any news. Join our group on facebook and follow our tweets.
Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
FT3=41-60% chance the rumor is correct
FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
92 Responses
15 stops of DR with silicon diode is possible(?) but it won’t be M43 size sensor. 😉
But since it is an Oly rumour, however fantastical, it must be true!
remember fuji S5PRO with two sizes of photocells? I hope they use this in next OMD!
well yeah i have one fuji finepix with two sized CCD cells .. absolutely crappy image quality.
the images look strange an “crunchy”.. strange pixel pattern.
every canon P&S i had was better.
Why did you buy a camera with crappy images?
because i trusted internet camera reviews and it was only 200 euro.
teached me a lesson.
I taught I teached I taught a pussy cat!!!!!
Lots and lots of clueless people posting gear reviews on the ‘net. Having a blog does NOT make you an expert. Sad but true!
Which one do you have? I still miss my S5, the DR is incredible. Even today the S5’s DR-performance on iso 800-1000 is better than any other camera.
Surely S5 is a little bit soft, and needs razor sharp lenses to be on par with other Dslr but…
The DR?
And the wonderful colour?
And the gentle shades?
And the print you can obtain?
Sure is not an everyone camera and need some experience to obtain the best, but in some ways there’s no modern sensor who can achieve the same result.
yeah sure.. that why all the world is using it today.
because it offers the best results.. get real.
it´s crappy compared to todays cameras…
lol…. soem moron believe everyhing
I believe it will be a special camera, but 15 stops? No way. Also the collaboration between Oly, Sony and Fuji seems too much.
..yeah, this rumors sounds like they are brewing the “Justice League” camera LOL
Hopefully not the Wonder Twins camera!
The bunch of Sony toy-features and the pile of Olympus gimmicks in the Fuji X? No way!!!
@Admin, I’ve just found out from very trusted sources that GH5 will have 16 stops dynamic range!
Excuse me, typo, 17 stops! (Crappy keyboard…)
😛
😀
+1 😀
I offer 18! Looks like I’m the winner 🙂
19.16524 That sort of number just proves it must be correct. Do I take the pool now?
If that was true, then why would panasonic put their new sensor (which is a collaboration with fuji and also might have around 15 stops dr) in a camera not before the end of 2014/2015? And since when does sony collaborate with fuji? Did I miss something?
Because Panasonic is sloooow…. I wish they could be faster in releasing their products (42.5mm anyone?)
They’re not slow, they show their planned products earlier than other manufacturers.
Miroslav, that’s semanthic, for us customers.. There’s not so much point in showing me that one day there will be a 42.5mm. They should say: in two years you’ll get this lens. In the meanwhile, if someone really needs that focal lenght, he can look elsewhere (if available, of course).
Therefore I won’t hold my breath waiting for any of those Panasonic lost in time products.
I’m really interested in the new GX camera, BUT I won’t wait too long for it to hit the shelves on stores, because I need a second (really good) body for my work.
I know that it will be like apples to oranges, compared to next OMD (both will be really good), but the first to arrive will be my next purchase.
Back to the 42.5mm example: Voigtländer’s version will be available sooner (summer). If I didn’t have to buy a second m43 body I would have gone for it (AF vs MF is not an issue nor a downside to me).
Well the fact that you are holding your breath and not buying from the competition –i.e. the great Oly 45/1.8 – is EXACTLY the point of announcing a product waaay before selling it.
Some of these vaporware products are in the end not even shipped at all…
Klaus
Funny…this sounds like a blending of all of the Panny/Fuji Oly/Sony rumors the we have to date. It would be exciting if it were accurate…but this sounds very “iffy”.
FT2 – 21%-40% chance that rumor is correct, therefore 60-79% chance that rumors is incorrect
But if will be true, I will buy new OMD. DR is much more important from me than high ISO.
Actually those things go hand in hand. 15 stops of DR would mean something like useable ISO50,000.
Sounds expensive 🙂
Sounds expensive 🙂
Sounds Expensive 🙂
V. skeptical about the usefulness of such DR. We know from HDR that we can obtain extended DR, but to the price of lack of contrast and unnatural looking images with washed out colours.
So perhaps it’s a fantastic sensor but not for such DR feature only. This information is worthless.
Actually, there is no such thing as too much DR. Firstly, because the sensor can offer as much DR as it may, you can still get the same visual rendering of contrast, which solely depends on the JPEG engine or Raw converter. Most important, a high DR in a sensor does not imply the image will get HDR looks. It just means you won’t get blown highlights where you otherwise would.
And secondly, because more DR usually means less noise, too.
Yes, any normal picture (a jpeg either out of camera or from RAW) has some 7-9 f-stops of DR. Even if the sensor has 11-12 stops, no one uses it all because of the low contrast it would require.
15 stop of DR would only be useful in very specific situations, like taking a picture inside a room with a window to a bright outside where you still want to see the sunny outside.
The thing is, beautiful pictures require beautiful light. What’s the point of having a camera that can take pictures in very crappy light if the pictures will be ugly anyway? Like a camera with very clean ISO 200.000. What would be the point? With such crappy light that requires ISO 200.000, the picture will be ugly no matter how cleans of noise it is. Similar situation with DR.
Well exactly my point. However for w@ankers living off the Internet, who presumably never take a picture, figures are everything.
Mind you a company going after easy money can give them exactly that, but I don’t see Oly trading quality for quantity, like the unwashed would have.
Therefore if there some truth about the increased performance if the next OM-D, there must be in the new sensor as a whole, not only DR. Perhaps the deepthroats meant that it has increased SNR, which helps in various ways.
But It won’t be the magic wand that turns pigs into photogs 🙂
Said the good photog..
I’ve seen it suggested that human vision can handle about 26 stops of DR, far further than anything possible now (and further still than results achieved by many HDRs). Of course, that involves a process of our pupils refocusing and our brain combining information- in a sense, similar to HDR video. Does your vision look washed out and lifeless to you? Of course not. Your brain has a terrific JPEG engine. 😉
One site that I often find interesting discusses it:
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/cameras-vs-human-eye.htm#sensitivity
No, you really can’t have a problem with a sensor capable of TOO MUCH dynamic range. If you don’t like the result, adjust the tone curves as desired and call it a day. No one ever wishes for a sensor that blows more highlights. If you want them blown in post, no problem. But if they weren’t captured in the first place, you can never get them back.
too true for the internet to handle.
Yeah, this is a new sensor with 15 Ev dynamic range and 2 Mpix 😀
Not sure why people are so angry here, bashing Panasonic, bashing Olympus. I’m happy for every progress that m43 makes, be it from Panasonic or Olympus. I buy the best gear and lenses from both.
And if Fuji suits me best, I buy Fuji. Not sure why people need to bring Fuji into so many threads here.
Exactly!
+1000
+1001
+ infinity x infinity
+2000 (+1000 for pana and +1000 for oly)
Hmm.. Oly partnering with Fuji and Sony huh? That would explain why they are dragging so much their foot on the “RF-style” model. It must be part of the deal with their “buddies”..
Crazy conspiration theory thoughts?
You can probably put that one in the same trash heap that the highly popular “Olympus will never implement focus peaking because they partnered with Sony” theory went.
15 stops of dynamic range really impressive .
OMD Pro is the right gadget to go for 2013 if it did produced such rich DR .
Olympus again in the highlight !
Soo…now its no msc no organic no 15 stop dr no buy?
no way, this will not happen 2013 (or 2014), ft0.
I heard the OMD Pro has a mount that takes lenses from Nikon, Canon and Fuji, and ofc (m)43. The sensor size also changes according to the mount. Exciting!
P.S. Kit lens is a 1mm – 1000m 1.0. Not a pancake unfortunately.
btw, admin, in the random posts list I often see posts from 2011 that talk about the magical 12-50 2.8 – 3.3 lens from Panasonic. Whatever happended to that? Did they actually make a prototype?
It’s likely to be a false rumour. Let’s be happy if the next OM-D jumps to 13.5 EV.
It’s possible for 15 stops, look at the 13 stops of blackmagic pocket but for DR ….
I don’t believe any rumors… I only believe proved news 😉
interesting…er…ummm…..then why are you commenting on a rumor blog????
because of the news, it’s not only a rumors site 😉
It would be nice but I won’t trust that kind of speculation: “someone told me that a friend saw…”
Pekka Potka wrote that this new model will be different from Panasonic upcoming RF looking camera. And he wasn’t writing about the shape. So I wonder if the only big (for those interested) improvement will be a good compatibility with 4/3 lenses or what else.
Higher DR would be perfect for my landscapes.
If I remember right (FT4), I wrote about the rumored “GX7” (FT?) and the rumored “next OM-D” (FT?) being rumored to be aimed (FT3) for different (FT3) rumored user groups. Which does not imply any opinion (FT4) on good/bad/better/worse…
-p-
Pekka 🙂 I was referring to the rumor linked in that Flickr thread. I remember you plied to me saying that those two cameras would be quite different and I wonder if it’s only a matter of 4/3 lenses usability and rangefinder shape/size difference.
(Your blog is a constant presence on my tablet, keep up the good work)
Could be because of this 16 stops DR , Pana have no choose but to approach Fuji .
Of course Oly is not capable of this but with Sony’s sensor tech , everything is possible .
Look at RX100’s DR then you will get the answer .
Yes..pana partnered with fuji because of an unannounced, unproven, untested unmade sony sensor that we’re just hearing about…
So this is not merely an “Olympus rep told me” rumor (notoriously unreliable) but a “met a guy who said an Olympus rep told him” rumor?! Even FT2 seems too strong!
@admin i thought we werent getting any updates on the new omd until they were ft4/5. I guess u caved due to the constant requests/cravings for info!!
So earlier or later we will get a 15 stop dr sensor, that´s for sure.
But please Admin, tell us more about the lenses. Waiting sooo long for fast zooms from Oly.
DR can be measured in many different ways, no ISO or other standard. The way DXO measures, Nikon D 800 is 14.5 or 14.7 if I remember right.
As D800 owner I agree with some views above: It is a great asset, but you do not always need all that DR. The good thing is it is up to you as creator ( not the camera) that decides about what tonality you need to achieve your purpose of the image.
maybe, just like the 12bit,16bit,18bit DAC chip race during the early CD years which at a sudden moment led to a 1-bit DAC for audio reproduction,we might end up with some kind of a 1-stop solution for digital photography.
🙂
You should file a patent for it!
If you have enough pixels (is high enough sample rate) then yes, that works in pretty much the same way as it does for sound.
Was really hoping for 16. 🙁
Its fun to look at rumours sometimes. But sensor and inter-company interaction rumours are a couple of times removed from reality and not so interesting for me. Admin, please tell us about the real sensor in the GX7.
All I want is an Oly OMD that solves some of the very few OMD quirks, has the new viewfinder, and has just a little bit better native grip (without having to add an extra one)….but manages to still be smaller than the GH3 overall. That would immediately become my primary camera, with the EPM2 as a backup….
BTW I still use an E-PM1 as backup and couldn’t be happier. That is why I said that above a certain ceiling figures don’t impress me.
True one could have a function of ‘Extended Dynamic Range’ for very specific situations, but the rest of the time 12-13 stops are more than adequate.
And for those who quote Fuji cameras, having seen their EXR ones, I saw that they lose resolution, so there might be a tradeoff. You would also lose in microcontrast which is very important. Perhaps you should even change lenses. People like to trade figures but IQ is more than that as we saw with some strange finding of DxO.
1st off.. it’s probalby the much hinted to E-5 replacement and probably not a mirrorless product.. probably something to compete in the D800 market.
2nd.. That would be a 2-3 stop improvement in light.. or 4-8x ISO improvement. Thats orders of magnitude better then the improvement Sony brought to the OM-D and EP5 from the older 2nd generation sensor. I don’t see how such a quantum leap could happen, especially for an OM-D and not in m43 format. Olympus would be foolish to not launch a APS or FF variant with 5-axis stablization. They’d own the APS market body wise.
Pesonally, I’d like the Sensor manufacturers to focus on better low ISO ie ultra clean ISO 50 and 100 (not extended 100 with a loss of DR) in m43s and further improvement in micro contrast. Especially now that we have a 1/8000s shutter in the EP5. Add native ISO 50 and all those fast primes would really come into their own. ISO 3200 is already good enough.. a slight improvement in 6400 and what more would you need.
I’d like to see olympus build an ultra spec 20mm pancake to get rid of the slow Pana focusing. Then a fast telephoto zoom and the system would be complete.
Olympus already released the m43 17mm f1.8 a couple of months ago. It took care of the AF issue on the 20mm. As for pancake and “ultra spec”, I don’t think they will release another version since they already have two lenses in that FOV (two 17mm). You would be better hoping for a Lumix 20mm MKII (which is not planned, as far as we know).
I think a 20mm mkII with fast, silent internal focusing would make sense, especially with Panny’s focus on video. I don’t do video myself, but I would upgrade.
I have had no issues with AF with the subjects I use the 20mm for { landscapes, cityscape and social shots}. A good few people do seem to complain about this usually Olympus users , I am curious to the type of shots you take with a slightly wide angle lens that require ultra quick AF.The 20mm sells for nearly £150 less than the Olympus 17mm which is not exactly a stellar performer. I am afraid that i think that much of the complaints about the AF are exaggeration. I have had the 20mm since it came out used on the GF1, E-P3 ,GH2 and GH3 and have never lost a shot because of it.
1st. You can speculate it would be for a E-5 replacement, but sensor size in 4/3 and m4/3 is the same, so DR performance in either camera, mirrorless of DSLR, would be the same with a given sensor technology. I would go with admin, thinking that a hybrid system from Olympus is more likely at this point than a DSLR.
2nd. I agree 15 stops DR in FF would seem more realistic. In this case, if I had to bet on either “Olympus is going full frame”, or “this rumor is just bullshit”, I would certainly go for the latter. Olympus has exactly zero FF lenses in production. Sure, there is no mirrorless FF camera right now except for Leica ($$$$), so there is a market opportunity. OTOH, Sony is entering this market soon with plenty of A mount FF lenses to fill the gaps at the start. I don’t think Oly could be competitive against its business partner Sony. As for APS-C, the modest sensor size difference with 4/3 doesn’t warrant building a new lens catalog from scratch. I think that Oly moving to a larger Sony mount would be more likely at this point than Oly creating a new competitive FF or APS-C mount. My opinion is that Oly is keeping m43 as its only competitive system, while trying to achieve good legacy compatibility with 4/3 lenses.
Yes, this makes good sense. What they could do however is make a rebranded Sony FF body with Olympus lenses they provide to Sony.
It would give them some access to a FF system, while keeping m4/3 as their main business. Those systems are highly complementary.
Sources can send me anonymous info at 43rumors@gmail.com (create a fake gmail account) or via contact form you see on the right sidebar
You should really suggest that they use a hushmail.com account. Hushmail transmits very little header data and will wipe any account that hasn’t been used within three weeks. For throwaway accounts, it’s far more secure.
“… the instructor talked about how he was leaving Nikon and going to move to Olympus.”
I would have rated that even FT1. We have plenty of such enthusiastic rumors from enthusiastic people who were talked up by overly enthusiastic Oly salespeople.
But then again, I want to hope too.
Just make the new one focus like a dslr !
Then worry about DR
Sony and fuji helping out?….mmmmm?
Even if this was true, assuming Olympus was able to juice out 15 stops of dr out of a m43 sensor how much will Sony and fuji be able to extract out of that same technology in an apsc 1.5 crop sensor when it’s their turn to use it?
I’m assuming they are allowed to use what they helped Olympus with.
I’m skeptical but I’d love the OMD Pro to have all that dr, I’ll have have fun trying to blow highlights with it.
Seriously though, this guy is gonna dump his nikon gear for some promise of a m43 sensor cam with 15 stops of dr?
What happens when nikon one day drops a bombshell and comes out with a cam with much more dr than that?….I look forward to this camera and I’m hoping for 13.5 stops of dr ànd an incredible feature set with a highly capable af with both 4/3 and m4/3 lenses but this rumor I’d say is definitely an f2 at most…..for now.
it’s got 15 stops of dynamic range and i’m the reincarnation of Ronald Reagan
I love the magical switching stories, especially how they have almost zero detail. If he’s leaving his Nikon D200 for something new, why not? It’s well past 2004, isn’t it?
If the dynamic range is that good from the sensor alone, I’d be surprised for it to be in a product in 2013.
If it’s better dynamic range extension software, I could believe it. Even if it takes multiple quick shots and pulls it all into one great image, sure, that’s possible. Multiple core CPUs have become very capable.
Admin, any news on the m4/3 fast zooms?
I don’t believe the rumour because of the mention of Fuji. Yes Sony have next generation sensors coming in 2014 and they may even have a Foveon type sensor but I think the 15 stops DR will be in the new FF & APS-C Dslr sized mirrorless cameras which are due in 2014. Now you might get + 15 stops of DR but it will be in a Panasonic camera once the Fuji organic sensor makes it into a camera in late 2014 or early 2015. The next two years are going to be an interesting time for photographers with sensors getting much closer to the wide DR of film
sensor size has nothing to do with a sensors capacity for DR
Strictly speaking you are right , but at the same that statement is misleading. Dynamic range is sensors is composed with two and only two things. One is pixel’s saturation point and second is read noise. As the saturation point of the pixel is directly related to the pixel size, you must understand that if two cameras have equal number of pixels, the one with bigger sensor have higher saturation capacity and thus higher DR. This of course presumes that both sensors have also similar read noise.
There are also other ways to get better DR: multiple shots with different exposures is a familiar technique, but in principle you could built a sensor where part of the pixels record the highlight-information and other pixels the shadow-information.
But if we assume that this rumoured 15 stops sensor is based with traditional sensor-tech, could that be possible? Let’s see: Current OM-D saturation point at base ISO is ~25000 electrons and read noise 6.5 electrons. This makes 11.9 stops DR. If sensor-maker Sony keeps the pixel-size same, this means that saturation point stays same. And I doubt that they would use any less pixels in models to come, so only way to get better DR is cramming the read-noise lower. 3.25e read noise would make 12.9 stops DR, 1.625e read noise is 13.9 DR and 0.8125e read noise would make 14.9 DR.
I strongly doubt that they can get that low read-noise in next-gen sensors. For comparison, read noise in Sony RX100 is 2.3 e.
By the way, I really don’t understand people who thinks that high DR, could not be beneficial. It will always be, no matter what is your photo-technique.
critical too is an effective light pipe, going all the way back through the lens (just to be difficult) where some optics do better than others. IOW if your complete light pipe loses 1e/v via vignetting you full area readout becomes unbalanced, the average is ‘impure’ This impurity can affect m43rds as much as any other chosen system, but statistically the larger the sensor the bias will more often than not swing more against it.
But to look closer at the E-M5 in view of differences between the “engineering” definition of DR is not exactly the same as that used DxO causing an apparent e/v shift (apparent as in not actual), we know it underachieves slightly at lower ISOs but overachieves at higher ISO. So the effective results become twisted between the two sensors stated. A feature not defined well by DxO as as a result sensorgen data.
IOW looking at the baseline wont tell the whole story, and improvements to that baseline purely from the point of view of that alone would somewhat rebalance the data, although I wouldnt be in favour of that undoing. IOW II, the higher end DR looks different to the base DR, with good reason.