[shoplink 39058 ebay]
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The [shoplink 39058 ebay]Ikon Contax[/shoplink] also had a hybrid mount solution
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The new GX camera rumors really has stolen the show from Olympus. But trust me, that’s going to be a strong and intriguing rumor battle! In these last few days I got two rumors from sources I know from a long time. Both told me that they got hints about a new high end Olympus camera that will be announced in September. And it’s going to be a camera much larger than the current E-M5 that has a mount that allows to take both Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds lenses without the use of any adapter!
How this could work I don’t know. There are two examples from the filmcamera history but I don’t know if Olympus will pickup one of the two ideas (or both together):
1) [shoplink 39057 ebay]Contax AX camera (here one Bay)[/shoplink]: The camera had a moving film plane inside the camera.
2) [shoplink 39058 ebay]Zeiss Ikon Contax (here one Bay)[/shoplink]: The original Contax rangefinder made from the 1930ies to the 50ies had two bayonets! Camerapedia explains how this works: “This mount is in fact the combination of two bayonets. There is a focusing helical built in the body and the standard lenses mount directly in that focusing ramp via an internal bayonet. So the standard lenses have no focusing ring of their own. The other lenses mount on an external bayonet and have their own focusing ring, only the rangefinder coupling is done via the body’s focusing ramp.” A nice image of the mount can be seen at Fotocommunity.
I hope some of our sources can me soon explain how this works for real (if the rumor is true). This is going to be a really exciting time, GX successor sounds amazing and that Olympus high tech may turn out to be a really nice (and useful) camera too!
Stay tuned on 43rumors! (and if you have some time help us to test our new beta deals site project: DealsRunner.com).
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Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
FT3=41-60% chance the rumor is correct
FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
147 Responses
Jeez, I’m a bit like Yun at the moment.. as soon as one camera is rumoured, I’m looking for what else might come on the next one!
Guess I’ll buy lenses instead.
So do I, but luckily there are no appealing lenses at the moment! 🙂
I’m waiting for better Oly mFT zooms since 2 years…
They’ll come, I’m sure. Olympus has to sort the dual AF first.
Hope it has E-5×0 dimensions. My E-510 is the ideal DSLR form factor, IMVHO..
Matthias I understand your point. Zooms available at the moment never convinced me, and personally I prefer primes, so let’s see what will be next!
That’s not entirely true…
the Voigtländer 42.5mm is supposed to be released this summer.
Any word on that, admin?
no word yet 🙁
Mr.Reeee yes, Panasonic 42.5mm is an interesting lens, but it seems that we’ll have to wait until early 2014 to see it, so at the moment I won’t hold my breath! 😉
🙂
He’s talking about the lens I’ve been waiting for since I got SLR Magic 25.
Ouch! My bad, I have read too fast! Yup, Voigty is more appealling to me too, but there are no rumors about it unfortunately..
He is talking about the Voigtländer 42.5mm f0.95 manual focus lens and not the panny 42.5mm f1.2.
both upcomers are equally interesting, would love to see a comparison in the future how they render wide open, especially with full body and regular portrait shots.
Nor are there any appealing flashes. They better ones look ridiculously huge on most Pen and G models. Can’t they do a compact flash similar to a flip out screen which can turn and rotate to cover more angles?
Have you tried the Olympus FL-600R?
+1
Even the small FL-300R is too large. I bought a Nikon SB-30, but it’s not TTL, so it needs to be set up separately.
I use my FL50R on my E-M5 with grip & it’s not too bad like that (especially when using the 75-300 lens) but I wish the focus assist light on the flash could work with it, but perhaps it’s too dull to be effective enough for contrast AF & hence the E-M5 was not configured (programmed) to be used with it (infrared focus assist light).
What kind of telephoto work do you do with the flash?
Possums in the trees with a torch to aid in focussing etc.
“luckily there are no appealing lenses at the moment!”
I wouldn’t say luckily. Panasonic and Olympus seem to be in a race with Sony concerning new body announcements, while we haven’t had any new lens for how long? Panasonic 45-150mm was announced last July and since then there were a few refreshed models, not yet available Schneiders, Tamron and Nokton and a body cap lens… There are still many holes in the system that no Speed Booster can fill.
Owning Pana7-14mm, Oly12mm, Lenscap15mm, Oly17mm, Voigty17.5mm, Pana25mm, Oly45mm, SLR50mm, Oly60mm, Oly75mm, Oly12-50mm and Oly40-150mm, what I need for my works is a second m43 body.
By saying “luckily” I meant to say that at least I can try to save money for one of the new upcoming cameras.
My dissatisfaction was not with your comment, but with Panasonic and Olympus strategy. Nice lens collection btw, I’d be satisfied with half of those :).
That’s ok, it seems today I keep misunderstanding comments!.. 🙂
NHF :).
I would not be interested in this camera if the rumor is true…as I have no 4/3 lenses. I can’t imagine anyone who has a MFT kit being interested either..but then I don’t get the whole metabones thing either so……there are many outlooks…
I would be interested in the sucessor to the current OMD (hope that that is NOT this hybrid camera), and also the new GX2. Since my current cameras and lenses are so incredible…I can wait for both to hit the market and get throughly reviewed to truly see what the improvements are before I decide to buy one….but all three (if there are in fact 3?), cameras sound interesting and exciting!!!!!
You may not be interested but there are many of us that have both 43 and m43 cameras, and hence 43 and m43 lenses. Some of the 43 lenses are outstanding, especially the Oly zooms which have not yet been matched by the m43 offerings. I continue to shoot with 43 and m43 cameras, and I hope that such a rumor is true. If you have no 43 cameras or lenses, and are not interested, then fine, but you also don’t know what you are missing.
Hey…i am not saying there is anything wrong with the hybrid body….I said “there are many outlooks”. I use my MFT kit as a Micro kit (very small and use it when I don’t need or want to carry out my big kit), to complement my Full-Frame kit. If “I” want to use large, high-quality glass, then I am going to use a large high quality full-frame sensor, too…For me that quality is BETTER than anything 4/3 or MFT can offer. That is “my” outlook…everyone does not have to do things the way I do. …But for a small full kit with fisheye to 600mm (equivalent) MFT can’t be beat!!!! It’s really compact and the quality is very good…but does not stand up to my Full Frame Canon with “L” glass, Zeiss and Sigma (Sigmas chosen very carfully!! LOL). Not even close. I think it is great for 4/3 users if this new hybrid body is good for them…that is awesome…it just is nothing I would be interested in. It does not fit in with my approach to creating images. The tech sounds interesting, though!!!!
Not that it will be a major factor, but 4:3 is a DSLR like focal length, so the adaption of FF glass to 4:3 is the result of shorter rings and a glass-to-body balance ratio. An Oly Hybrid that shoots m43, 4:3 — can also be used on the larger options of FF legacy glass as well. My 4:3 body remains in my kit, for that very reason. Bringing out something new and updated doesn’t sound so bad, as well as the main bonus; opening the use of, now -legacy- 4:3 glass … the more lenses you have access to in any system, can only be a positive.
It won’t sell madly because it’s a niche market. Photographers, not the consumer retail mob. THat is big statement from OLY.
I think this camera is more successor to E-30.
So this september new OM-D will be a hybrid model and not a replacement of E-M5? Because I had real concerns for my wallet by if it’s true I’ll sleep well.
A full replacement of the EM5 is unlikely, rather there will be the addition of another model, on the “premium” side, leaving the EM5 on the market not replacing it. This is Olympus’ offering for the “portableWithBuiltInViewFinder” for now at least. the GX2 will have them accelerate the release of the long-awaited RF-like for sure.
OTOH I am surprised that the “OneBeautifulSystem” is really happening.. I thought it was a chimera. In terms of profitability and mere number of customers it seems like a sheer misplacement of resources to me. Sounds like one of those typically Japanese decisions for the sake of honour and the like. But I might be wrong. Certainly people here will disagree with me.
One thing I am sure. It won’t be the main feature of the new OMD as it will be a commercial disaster if it would. I am talking in terms of market share, nothing personal or fanboysm whatsoever.
Interesting times anyway. Especially to buy a used 43 lens then, before they start going up on ebay!
Mau
“OTOH I am surprised that the “OneBeautifulSystem” is really happening.. I thought it was a chimera. In terms of profitability and mere number of customers it seems like a sheer misplacement of resources to me. Sounds like one of those typically Japanese decisions for the sake of honour and the like. But I might be wrong. Certainly people here will disagree with me.
One thing I am sure. It won’t be the main feature of the new OMD as it will be a commercial disaster if it would. I am talking in terms of market share, nothing personal or fanboysm whatsoever.”
I see it just the other way. FT nearly really made it to the mass market – it always remained a system for those who knew exactly why they wanted FT and nothing else.
But now, with µFT having opened the gates to a far bigger market, the OBS could be the game changer. Everybody who will shoot the OBS with an FT HG or SHG lens will ask himself why in heaven he should keep his APS-C or 36mm DSLR. So this definitely could result in a huge sales-figure leap for the FT HG lenses that still are second to none. I’m not so sure regarding the SHG lenses (price/size) but the HGs alone will turn Oly’s µFT system in a system with nearly evrery lens you need available )apart from some special lenses sich as tilt/shift and the likes. So, I believe that the OBS will represent a fantastic business opportunity for Olympus.
“Interesting times anyway. Especially to buy a used 43 lens then, before they start going up on ebay!”
Agreed. I really should re-accelerate my search for the 150 2.0
IMO the OBS (good name :)) won’t make a dent in the market. It will be too specialized for the general public, too large for mirrorless aficionados and too expensive for most shooters (“why would I buy a $1700 beast with a smaller sensor when I can have a – fill in the blanks – with a f/2.8 zoom for half the price?”). It’s a great technological achievement for Olympus, but a non-significant one in wider perspective. Nevertheless, it will reinforce Oly’s reputation as a great innovator and original thinker.
Reason for you would buy an 1700$ camera by smaller sensor is third thing, lens, good lens and very good lens. 😛
I totally agree. I don’t understand, why Olympus still wants to support a system, which was not commercially successfull (FT). It could not convince main brand’s DSLR buyers, because sensor IQ wasn’t good enough, the system body and lens sizes were to big to fulfill the expectations, and the really good lenses weren’t affordable to many. Does Olympus really except that all this will change with the new body? They may attract still current owners of Zuiko lenses, which want a new body, but those aren’t that many.
If the camera is significantly larger than the E-M5, the camera won’t attract too many m4/3 owners, who joined the system to have smaller gear.
Instead investing a lot of funds in the development of this hybrid 4/3 m4/3 camera, Olympus should dedicate its resources to make a better OMD, because this camera is full of ergonomic issues, despite of being an excellent camera otherwise.
It would be better to port 4/3 lenses to the m4/3 format, or try to establish a high quality lens series, so that 4/3 owners will be tempted to switch to m4/3.
OBS would have been interesting if it came 2-3 years ago. Now the majority of FT users have left the system. OBS is dead weight. The future is mirrorless anyway.
Don’t think so.
And even many of those who temporarily left the the FT boat might come back if they hear that there is a state-of-the-art camera with a state-of-the-art sensor that can be used with the lovely FT lenses.
Back at the end of January at CP+ Olympus had aposter in the booth that listed the interchangeable lns cameras that were planned for released this lens. It listed three cameras; the E-P5 by name, an OMD and E-Series.
Most likely the OMD camera is going to be a pro-level MFT camera that is position above the E-M5 in the OMD line of cameras. Olympus officials did mention that the camera is going to be slightly larger for better ergonomics. I wouldn’t expect the E-M5 replacement until next year. The E-Series camera mention on the poster is an total unkown. I am guessing this hydrid camera is going to be in the E-series line of cameras because it takes the FT lenses. I am guessing it will ne able to take both FT and MFT lenses by moving the sensor foward and back. It might even use this movement to be able to AF the MF lenses faster when using CDAF. So there just might be on sensor PDAF in the hydbrid camera.
Anyhow, according to Olympus there are two new cameras coming this fall so the rumors about these two cameras can get mixed and combine to confuse people.
Dave
Olymps at CP+ listed the interchangerable lens cameras that are planned for release this year. What is planned are:
1. E-P5 (mention by name)
2. OMD (only series name so one has to assume it is not the E-0M5 replacement, but maybe the OMD-Pro)
3. E-Series (This hydrid FT/MFT cmera just might be possition in the E-Series and be considered the E-30 or E-3 replacement.
Oly has big problem with sales of FT old lenses. So they try to find out some way to make people buy these obsolete product.
These “obsolete” product needs simply the right sensor. It’s like calling a ’80s leica summilux obsolete..
Obsolete?? There aren´t many lenses on the market that are better than Oly SHG-lenses.
Obsolete or not, some of these lenses, including the 12-60, are absolutely superb as far as image quality goes. It’s a shame for them to either be forgotten or to never have an m43 equivilent made.
Typical ignorant statement. Those “old” lenses are outstanding, and with a camera that can properly accommodate them, they provide unmatched clarity and performance. I should know, I have them.
These lenses are available new and well listed on ebay. HK and Asian sellers seem to be selling them new. These HK and Asian ebay stores do not keep massive stock on hand or keep non selling stock. In other words they would not have ordered a warehouse full 2 years ago and kept them there because they are not selling. They don’t work that way. So they must be finding a market.
Would it be somewhat similar to what is happening with Sony and the A mount? I hear it is going mirrorless. Sounds like these may have the best of both worlds.
Wuhuu – finaly the OBS seems to be coming true.
My FT lenses already start dancing with delight.
What is most interesting is that both Olympus and Sony rumors are telling us the same – double mount cameras are coming soon. This must be another area of their cooperation. I am also interested to see how will that be achieved.
And the “much larger than the current E-M5” part means I probably won’t be interested in it. That’s the E-5 successor, I suppose.
not only Contax had two bayonets, but Exakta Varex or VX too : the great one for heavy or luminous lenses, and the inner one for other lenses ; Topcon had only the inner Exakta bayonet ; Tamron lenses for Exakta used the outer bayonet, and there was a Novoflex adapter with outer bayonet for Exakta
Perhaps they can build a mechanism that can precisely move the sensor forward and backward to suit the correct flange distance. Might double as a built-in extension tube!
I think its a double side bajonet design body, FT on one side. MFT on the other side. I just wonder how they combine that with the LCD screen, only a hinged/rotable type would be possible here.
I think thats too unreliable for accurate focus,and it doesnt fix the mount issue
Yo dawg, we herd U like lenses, so we put a mount in your mount so you can… Wait, Xzibit doesn’t work here.
If they install a moving sensor then maybe it will autofocus with MF lenses? 🙂
Contax did that with FF, no idea if it worked, but this is twice as hard on a 2x system
I have just 1 piece of question. Assuming
1. the adapter is able to forward all signals from camera to lens and vice versa, 2. the camera/lens firmware is able to emulate the FT behavior via this adapter,
3. this adapter is included in box,
why the hell would need anybody a bigger camera just for making possible the direct usage of FT lenses?
That would be nice: 4/3 zooms and m4/3 primes used by the same camera. I don’t mind if it’s larger than the E-M5, just hope it’s not as massive as the E-5. I have them both and would prefer something in between (OM size). Oh, and it will be terribly expensive. $1700 to be precise. The next three months will be a good time to sell E-3’s and E-5’s.
“why the hell would need anybody a bigger camera just for making possible the direct usage of FT lenses?”
For me it’s a matter of weight balance… I need a big camera body to comfortly use my EC-20 + 50-200 SWD.
And my EC14 with Sigma 150mm macro lens.
At least it will a thicker body to take into account the longer register distance of the FT lenses.
I would much rather have a native MFT 100-500mm.
and some faster prime telephotos. I just don’t see any FT lenses that excite me.
.. and teleconverters!
The ZD 150mm f/2.0 very nice one
And the 300/2.8 for those who can afford it.
this may be good news. i have been waiting for a solution to my problem and this might hack it. i have the e3, e30 and the em5; sigma 50-500mm, olympus 50-200mm swd, olympus 300mm f2.8, lumix 100-300mm, ft-mft adaptor, tc14 and tc20. when i get lucky, the em5+300mmf2.8+tc20 gives outstanding shots on a reach that gives the equivalent ‘full frame’ angle of view of 1200mm @ f5.6. but this combination is slow and oftentimes oof if one relies on the em5 af. so i go manual which is aided superbly by the magnification capabilities of the em5 viewfinder. but my photography is mostly on wild birds and this system is difficult and sometimes impossible to use. with lots of missed opportunities. ideal for me if either they come up with an ft body with quantum jumps in iq and dynamic range than the e3/e30/e5 which i can use with my 300mm and extenders; this rumored body that can take both ft and mft, and hopefully also weather-sealed; or just give us a weather-sealed 300mm f4 and a similarly weather-sealed 1.4x extender – i don’t care if this mft lens can be as massive as my lumix 100-300mm. i have waited years for a solution so i guess a few more months would not make a difference but please, just do it!
without adaptor, I and judge it’s false.
Is this a RF camera or SLR style camera ?
I thought is a SLR like E5 but photo display by Admin is RF style . ???
@DonTom
Always look for what is next intend a smart move .
From there you able to justify if the current available device worth of your purchase .
I’m still attached to my GX1 , the release of OMD doesn’t effect me cause I know if I shoot RAW & do some edits , I can make my photos very close call to OMD . The same for GH3 .
Don’t kill me but too large size !!!
It could be a good transition but for m43 user why could buy a camera with almost the same size than dslr over priced.
m43 is interesting because it brings quality AND compacity.
A much larger size than E-M5!! This is almost certainly the worst of both worlds, if it means a DSLR size camera but with a smaller sensor. What else can it mean?? How can it compete with APS-C and larger sensor cameras??
Olympus should just let 4/3 die. No future in it. Instead, they keep wasting resources on it. This camera is only of interest to those 4/3 lens owners, who are not what Olympus’ future relies on. Those lens owners are not going to buy many more lenses. Olympus should get high quality native M43 lenses developed and leave the dead-end 4/3 behind. New M43 will sell.
I really can’t see a combined FT / uFT camera making any sense at all. It’ll be big, heavy and of minority interest. I got into uFT to stop hauling heavy kit around. There’s nothing wrong with Canikon if size isn’t the issue!!!
+1 !!!!
Huh, I had no idea that Canikon lets me use those 6000€ I dropped on 4/3 glass. That’s really nice to know.
I think it will do 40,000 units.
It can drag in both m43rds and 43rds users
& the mid sized camera might be more appealing to other brand users looking for a piece of micro but not be dependent on it
Epson EVF seems a certainty
the question really is pdAF, I guess the answer is in the pipe from Sony
Maz
“A much larger size than E-M5!! This is almost certainly the worst of both worlds, if it means a DSLR size camera but with a smaller sensor. What else can it mean?? How can it compete with APS-C and larger sensor cameras??”
The current PENs, Gs, GHs, Gfs and the E-M5 do quite well whe it comes to competing with APS-C and even 36mm, don’t they? So what do you want to tell us with your question.
And by the way: I also dislike big cameras but that’s just a personal point of view.
To be taken serious, on the market, µFT unfortunately needs bodies such as the GH3 or evenb bigger. We still live in a bigger is better world.
“Olympus should just let 4/3 die. No future in it. Instead, they keep wasting resources on it. This camera is only of interest to those 4/3 lens owners, who are not what Olympus’ future relies on. Those lens owners are not going to buy many more lenses. Olympus should get high quality native M43 lenses developed and leave the dead-end 4/3 behind. New M43 will sell.”
Sorry, but you really seem not to have got the slightest idea what you are talking about. The FT HG and SHG lenses are amiong thev finest lenses ever built on this planert and anybody who had the chance of using them for a while will have extreme difficulties to switch back to something different. The µFT range so far features just two lenses – the PannyLeica Summulux 25 1.4 and the m.Zuiko 75 1.8 – that play in the same league as the HG and SHG lenses, when it comes to image quality and character. The FT lenses are exactly the Olympus feature that could turn µFT from a solid success into the dominant format on the future consumer and prosumer market.
There ain’t anything as old lenses if the IQ is outstanding and if they are able to AF on the highest level, combined with a new camera.
There are already DSLR sized m43 cameras (GH2, GH3) but few people complain. Just don’t buy it
Sure but they wasted so much R&D on this “feature” that could have spent to solve some problems of a much wider audience hence making more money for themselves!
Much wider and more profit? Did you do a research, where from your ideas are coming from? Some numbers please, otherwise it’s pure fantasies that happen only in your head.
It’s same as claiming that everyone needs small body as possible, everyone needs a rangefinder style body, everyone likes em-5 etc…
Larger-than-EM5 would improve handling of buttons, which are too small in the current m43 format. BTW, I would wish Oly to produce pure OVF model as well, since EVF blackouts during shooting is a significant drawback for enthusiasts like me.
This seems to come far too late. A solution for 4/3 lenses would have been a great move 4 years ago, but now all but the most diehard 4/3 users have already moved on. Sure, there are some great lenses out there, but how many people today are going to buy a premium (and possibly large) camera just to use them?
This is one area where Sony really beat Olympus, offering a fully functional A mount adapter for NEX almost from the first.
I used Olympus 4/3 for 3 years, but much as I loved their lenses I finally gave up on them ever getting a competitive camera to market in a timely manner. I still use my 14-54 lens on Panasonic bodies, but only because neither Oly nor Panasonic has seen fit to offer a m4/3 equivalent.
i like new OM-D !
Uhm,
it’s not a m4/3 camera that can 4/3, but it’s 4/3 camera that can m4/3.
very difficult to decide if to buy…
Well of course it’s larger. Have you even seen the HG zooms? The 12-60 is too large to comfortably handle on any m4/3 body except perhaps the GH3. The 50-200 is a 1Kg monster. SHG lenses are even more massive.
This won’t be your standard m4/3 camera. If you don’t use 4/3 glass you won’t need it.
Hmmm – I don’t think so. With my E-M5 with landscape grip I can easily handle both the 12-60 SWD and the 50-200 SWD. If they’d only AF properly…
well my opinion is, that as long as you put a decent (3rd party)grip on a m43 body, there is nothing wrong with handling big/heavy FT or any large MF lens.
I think thats right too..
the only hitch is in using 1.4x,2x, and macro adapters
that adds up to stacked adapters
Lenses like 150/2 make handy tele lenses with a 2x or 1.4x,&
you can drop the adapter off to halve the FL
I use the 12-60 on the em5 handling not really a problem. Focus speed is the real downside.
Oly claims 4/3’s lenses like that will focus faster on the E-P5 & that has no extra grip options, but I do like the added (HLD-6) grip on my E-M5 though. It will be interesting to see what does actually come in September.
I wish that it is only marginally larger the E-M5. Oly can build a much larger external grip than HLD-6 to balance the weight of the FT lenses.
+ Maximum
Or maybe design full size body (ala Nikon D4) in smaller size?
The use of a double Bajonett seems not very likely to me. The difference between the FT and the µFT Bajonett is not only the diameter but more importendly the required distance between the mount area and the sensor area. So the two bajonetts need a significant different camera thickness. One way to achieve this would be double sided bajonet, but that will result in a very bulky body. Another approach could be a moveable sensor plane, that’s resulting in complex additional mechanics, precision-requirements and a body thickness of at least the E-5.
The best way to cover the bajonett issue is an adapter, which is already available – the MMF-3 is already a weather sealed solution.
The only real issue that worries me in using my FT Lenses, like the still unbeatable 35-100mm f 2.0, the wonderful 50-200mm f 2.8 SWD and the still fantastic 50mm f 2.0 macro, on the EM5 is the slow AF-Speed. So the most important feature of the OBS-Camera is a Phase-AF equivivalent technology that allows the FT lenses to be used with at least the AF performance as currently experienced with the E-5.
I get it, there are people aout there who actually spent a lot of money on 43s glass, but this isnt necessarily a good move. Oly should nurture 43s and m43s separately.
The merger was planned right from the beginning of µFT. So what is wrong in realising what was guaranteed to all the FT users at the Photokina 2010?
Admin…is this the only camera that Oly is planning for this Fall, or will there also be an EM5 refresh/update?
I’m fine w the E-M5 on HG lenses, size wise… just need faster focusing of the old lenses.
I’d be fine w an E-500 size 4/3 mount body w the E-M5 sensor… for around $500
or E-M5 sized body w m43 mount that will give reasonable AF speed w 4/3 lenses.
Or just give me an equivalent of the 12-60 and a 300mm f4 in m43 mount.
Oversized, over priced OM-D w dual mount? Not so sure about that, but I’ll wait to see it before I pass final judgment.
Really interesting how Sony-Alpha-Rumors and 43rumors have the same rumor about a hybrid mount. I really think we will see a massive technology joint between Sony and Olympus including PDAF on sensor, 5-axis IBIS, Hybrid Mount etc.
After having read all the thread, I concur absolutely with Mau:
“OTOH I am surprised that the “OneBeautifulSystem” is really happening.. I thought it was a chimera. In terms of profitability and mere number of customers it seems like a sheer misplacement of resources to me. Sounds like one of those typically Japanese decisions for the sake of honour and the like. But I might be wrong. Certainly people here will disagree with me.”
A big complicated dual mount camera just to appease the few remaining pure owners of 4/3 lenses, is an impending disaster. Even, they never gave up the need of an OVF with those lenses, so how can they accept an EVF.
It’s not that it cannot be made, probably at a huge price, but how many are going to use it, bar pay for it?
I see that there are still some starry eyed people in denial with reality. It is rather different to think of a camera with an adapter and PDAF on sensor, but a 4/3 camera that can take m4/3 lenses would be the last of the dinosaurs. Wasn’t it the same fate of the Contax?
Even Leica never attempted a dual mount camera- Imagine a R camera with dual mount for M too.
Really isn’t it a laugh?
I’d rather believe that Oly will make another E-7 for those it cannot wean out of the old sSLR technology. Remember? it never make out any money with it, and now it must crown that with a Gotterdammerung hybrid?
And you lens snobs go after it?
LOLOLOL
In comparison the E-M5 will be remembered like the simplicity of Genius 🙂
Please lemmings, clean this place before leaving for the cliff to suicide 🙂
You can use Leica R adapter on M-240 and while you cant move center during live-view, you can focus without much issues and shoot with Leica R lens, if you wish. Tho there are better options (Sony A99 is best of them).
Olympus SHG lens cost about same as Canon or Nikon counterparts and they are equal quality, some of them even higher. In not so distant history, Olympus made one of best lens too (its pretty much right after Leica and Zeiss, but in film times, most big companies made really good lens). And even today 75/1.8 is crazy good.
So having something to fully use those 4/3 lens seems as really good idea. 🙂 Im sure people which put like 10.000-20.000 USD into that system would be happy. Its about caring for your customers. Olympus doesnt have that much of them and they know that. But unlike Canon, they act according to that (remember Canon FD vs EOS).
And I appreciate that. 🙂 Im pretty positive, there will be quite a bit of people which will too.
Hm, when I look on this camera, or for example Leica M3, I think how far we went from having really good quality cameras.
Whats today comparable quality camera? Maybe D4/1Ds MK3 or M-E. Most of others is just ugly plasticky disposable stuff. Made just to last its warranty.
Ok I might be slightly oversimplifying stuff. And D4 isnt exactly thing of beauty either. But I guess you get point.
Which today camera will work after 50 years.
Not even single of them..
question is: who cares?
put a new film in a M3, and it will deliver you the same image quality as a M7 with the same lens.
It just not the case with digital. today camera in 50 years will not deliver the quality of the new cameras. They will not communicate with your devices, etc. Therefore it is less interesting to built for 50 years…
I think the whole concept of photography is changing. And for that reason, the usefulness of any film camera will never be replaced as a tool for the classic concept of photography. In another 50 years the camera may operate mechanically, but film may not be manufactured?
Digital cameras are superior tools in that they can do many different and useful things. But these do not change the concept of classic photography, rather they open up new possibilities for new creative endeavour.
Coming to think of it, there is no feasible way to combine both mounts into one. The only solution would be an interchangeable bayonet (screw-in or otherwise). If so, the camera will be sold with two separate mount modules. That should eliminate the need to move the sensor forward and back, but make weather sealing a tough challenge. All this implies a very high price point. It will be defined by Olympus as an E-5 successor ($1700) that can also use m4/3 lenses (an extra $300 for the additional module).
The design should be quite appealing. Thin and robust like a classic OM (with the 4/3 module sticking out about 18mm from the front panel).
Current Olympus m4/3 to 4/3 made for OM-D is weather sealed. 🙂
You see I don’t doubt that since Olympus is a century year old photo company, some members of the board believe it to be the Leica of the East.
Do they think however that the times are ripe to ask for Leica prices for a hybrid flagship? Which carries over dSLR distance to flange, combined with an EVF for m4/3 lenses?
It’s true that some spend more than 10,000 $ in 4/3 lenses, but what is the rationale for them to mount the despicably cheap m43 lenses on their flagship? And will they ever accept an EVF for them?
Can’t they buy two separate cameras or an adapter if they want to mingle with the proles? 🙂
If this thing sees the light it will the living proof that engineers, marketing men and the Oly board each live in their separate realities.
I believe Olympus is aware of the low potential demand for this. Expectations of slow sales will only contribute to the high price. Of course, six months into the life cycle of this camera Olympus will announce the E-M6 which will do everything the flagship does (only with a regular adapter) for half the price.
I think OBS has become an obsession for Olympus. It will cost them more than it will ever sell and they know it, but they can’t skip this painful step. Just like in a Greek tragedy. I suppose this behavior is part of a business culture mere westerners like ourselves cannot grasp. But then, most Olympus share holders do understand and perhaps even encourage it.
Just keep in mind that Olympus does things different, always did and always will. So in some way its true thinking they have their own interpretation of logic. Now we hear Panasonic will prob come with a flat top design EVF MFT body, which is great,and hopefully will sell as much as there are people who were begging for one to come. Beside that we have Olympus, stubbornly still busy with the AIO (m)FT body, while alot of people think it gives more drawbacks then it has advantages.But at least it shows the habit to come up with something not seen in the current digital cameramanufacturer scene; the possibility to morph it all into one solution. It is these kind of efforts within the system which are fascinating to me and belong to the highlights of the 43rumour topics.(And now back to photographing……..)
Plus whatever I’ve got to add.
> The new GX camera rumors really has stolen the show from Olympus
As an Olympus fan, may I add, “and deservedly so!”
Funny, now that Panasonic let some info slip to discourage people form buying the EP-5, Oly came back to steal Panasonic’s technical innovation thunder (IBIS, built-in, tiltable EVF) with their own on-purpose leakage of a camera with two mounts. I’m fairly convinced these leaks are not accidents.
It seems like with each new m43 cameras coming out, the price is getting higher and higher. OMD $1000, GH-3 $1290, E-p3 $1499 and FF canikon is getting cheaper and cheaper @ $2000. When the Oly e-5 was launched @$1,700 3 years ago, FF canikon cost @ $4000-6000. There maybe a reason Oly e-5 can compete then because of the price different. If the new Oly OMD-pro release @ $1,800 in a next few months, FF canikon could drop their price to $1,800. Wondering if Oly still can compete?
Well exactly. No system is an island. There are price and size constraints after which a buyer will choose FF if price and size is the same. Hence old Oly members of the board are flirting with disaster if they think they can ask any price for an Oly camera.
I remember that some Oly 4/3 lenses cost 3000 $ and that explains why their owners are so enraged and yet unrealistic. Who is going to pay FF prices for a body to use them? Not a single new buyer.
So with this uberexpensive model here comes the final crunch for 4/3 and its lens snobs.
Have a glass of champagne, take the pill and let the Reichskanzlei enjoy the gotterdammerung. Not everybody will take the poison though 🙂
As you mention the E-M6 will be a breath of fresh air, in comparison.
There is no reason to slag off those poor chaps. The truth is 4/3 lenses are marvelous. Many of them don’t have sweet spots and they actually make cameras like the E-5 quite competitive with FF offerings in good light.
It is unfortunate Olympus never managed to put a worthy sensor behind them, but that is about to change according to rumors. Better late than never.
Agreed. People on here seem to be trying to play CEO of Olympus. I don’t know about their sales figures or profitability or anything like that (and I don’t really care) but I do know that options are nice to have. There are a couple of SHG lenses that I could see myself picking up if this “OBS” body strikes my fancy. I have no idea whether or not I’ll like the body, because it’s not out yet.
I’ll watch with interest.
What the hell is wrong with you and makes you use all this Nazi bullshit?
I’m utterly disgusted!
He needs the attention! Btw, no matter how often he uses (his personal own spelling of) “Götterdämmerung”, I don’t think it’s related to Nazism per se.
I thought only K Rockwell writes extensivly about gear he never saw or touched, but obviously I am wrong..
Can’t see this happening. The E-7 will be an E-7 or possibly a resdesigned E-7 body, I haven’t seen one viable alternative to PDAF in an on sensor system. Nikon’s only works with their V1 lenses and then poorly with their FX and FX lenses, Canons blows, Sonys blows (in comparison I am speaking).
SO we are expecting Olympus to leapfrog all these competitors and develop a fully functioning on Sensor PDAF system in their first try? Then, they will dump this new tech into a flagship product?
I think it more likely we may see a hybrid focusing module on the next E-M5 or the premium E-M5 which will help with PDAF efforts on m43rds and marginally speed up 43rds focussing again… Then we will have a traditional DSLR, with a new PDAF module and all the bells and whistles from the m43rds development.
A double mount camera with a moving sensor is a pipe dream, how will it affect IBIS, how will it affect sensor alignment? Having 2 mounts… what will be the weight of the camera??
I call PIPE DREAM 🙂
When on sensor PDAF or a similar technology comes along there is nothing wrong with the MMF3 adaptor. WHen I am using 43rds lenses and switching them on the body I leave it on the camera and remove the lens !! Not rocket science.
Abraham
HYBRID is an OVERUSED and CONFUSING Buzz Word. As in: I want a Hybrid camera with a Hybrid Finder with a Hybrid Lens Mount. WTF are you talking about??? Maybe Multiple-Mount (an actual description) would be more enlightening, and less confusing, than Hybrid.
This is a really good news. I have E510 and 12-60swd and 50-200swd and am waiting for the “One Beautiful System”.
Sorry, guys, still cannot see the point.
Have cheap, average quality legacy FT lens? Throw it and buy its MFT counterpart.
Have expensive, superior quality legacy FT lens? Well, in this case you should afford 1 piece of fully compatible adapter for each such lens and you,’ll have a complete MFT system + high class lenses.
So please Olympus develop a fully compatible adapter with fast AF system (translucent mirror?).
If i remember well the patent for the hybrid, which is a few yrs. old, they didn’t have only a double focus mechanism, but also a hybrid VF.
Add to that a double mount or a telescoping sensor, and one can only imagine how much it is going to cost.
Sony tried the way of the translucent adapter, but how many bought it? More sensibly it is now attempting the way of FF on an E mount, not on the Alfa mount.
That is why, IF the rumours are true, I am beginning to think that Oly has lost the plot. Of a sensible price anyway.
Just a translucent mirror is needed + a basic (9 points) integrated PDAF system. It shouldn’t cost that much. Moreover, the loss of light is not worse than 1/2 EV.
I obviously rather speak about an FT-compatible adapter than a hybrid body.
As a more general consideration, we re entering a sensor dominated world in digital.
Oly built its reputation on fast zooms even across the frame, but we saw that with m4/3 new customers are happy with high resolution primes. Slow zooms are somehow offset by high sensitivity and high performance stabilisation.
So it is really a change of paradigm. 25600 ISO wt. noise is not far away, and adaptive liquid optics plus digital teleconverters will make complicated optics a thing of the past.
4/3 people demographically still live in the film past, say the ‘Easy Rider’ times, when a fast zoom seemed the 7th wonder. But they are really even needed? Even at their max focus speed their motor are left behind by the cheapest linear motors. CDAF make their recutting front/backfocus problems and calibration issues a thing of the past.
Are you up to finance an archaeological expedition into the past, if they ask you 2000 $ for a body? Most of m4/3 users don’t even know that they exist or care.
So who is going to foot the bill? Some hundreds across the Planet? Perhaps if they found a Chinese tycoon it could be viable. But what is the general interest? Even Leica primes on a digital body make more sense.
> As a more general consideration, we re entering a sensor dominated world in digital.
With that part, I agree 100%. However, the rest is conjecture, especially adaptive liquid optics changing “the paradigm” Real Soon Now. Personally, I think fotonic supplies in real-world situations can be the limiting factor, meaning there will be an end to ever-increasing high-iso performance, because *in practice*, the light just “isn’t there” for a given shutter speed with current CMOS technology. But that’s just guessing, I agree that we haven’t seen the end of it, given recent improvements.
> CDAF make their recutting front/backfocus problems and calibration issues a thing of the past.
Calibration could be done automatically in a combined system. CDAF to the rescue of PDAF, how’s that?
> Are you up to finance an archaeological expedition into the past, if they ask you 2000 $ for a body? Most of m4/3 users don’t even know that they exist or care.
If it’s the best option for me, I will buy it in a hardbeat. I would consider the D600 a miracle at the current price if it weren’t for the dust issues. Others might think it’s just quite expensive (and yet other will tell you: “yeah, but it’s full frame!”). But again, many (informed) people will just say: if it’s the best option for me, I’ll buy it in a hardbeat.
You seem to doubt the number of well-informed people out there (“some hundreds, pfah!”), but this is also not based on any fact.
If it costs the earth, I will skip it and buy another E-PM2 – at an even lower price, and use it with PanaLeica 25mm.
The present E-PM2 has FT 70-300 on it and – surprise, surprise – the focus is acceptably fast plus the fact that the new sensor boosts the performance of 70-300. Two small cameras covering a lot of focus distance, what more would one want? Not to mention that the E-520 can work as a third camera in good light with 11-22 on it – in special situations where you need to shoot a lot. Being no athlete, I have no problem carrying simultaneously the three cameras mentioned above.
Could the new model be an Olympus with the new Aptina 4K Raw video sensor with 14MP stills ?
Aimed at the video and run and gun / documentary shooter ?
If it had dual CF / SD slots and dedicated audio inputs and jacks for monitoring it would account for the size increase.
Add a dual battery grip and the camera could be a contender to the Blackmagic Pocket Camera and event the BlackMagic Cinema camera.
I for one would love a MFT 2K-4K Olympus, even if it was a little larger than the OMD it would still be much smaller than most other 2K-4K options on the market, plus you have the option of 14MP stills.
If the camera could record Pro Res as well as 2K-4K Raw it may be the go to camera for budget shooters and corporate work.
It may not be for everybody but for me it would be a perfect fit.
Sounds interesting. My HG and SHG FT-Zuikos long for a new camera to be used with. My E-3 is quite nice, but DR is way beyond time…
Just thinking. If the rumor is true about a hydbrid camera taking 4/3 and M-4/3 lenses natively without adoptors and it it is done by moving the sensor forward/backward to get the correct register distance. Why couldn’t this sensor movement be used for focusing. Contax did it for film many years ago. Moving the sensor for focusing just might be faster than the in-lens motors currently used. Also, if you use adoptors that are currently available, every lens could become AF lenses. For example with the Pentax K-mount adoptor every K-Mount lens could become an auto focuse lens. This just might get people using other camera systems to buy this hydrid camera. Anyhow, just an idea.
It would be a logical next step yes, but many lenses have groups inside which move seperately,in order to make corrections(at closer distances).So it would not be perfect solution.
The rumored next GX and themrumored next OM-D should be totally different cameras for different tyes of users. It is not wise to put them against each others.
There is a migration from DSLRs to mFT going on. The biggest issue slowing this migration is lack of fast C-AF and fast tele lenses. Solving this issue is only good for us, even if the body which solves it is not for everyone of us.
-p-
+1
But I think the timing of both rumors shows, at least to me, the different characters/philosophies of both companies; one gives in to a rather “mainstream” product while the other continues with a “different” concept. It’s great if both finally would be realized within the system.
@Admin
anyword on Panasonic re-entering Four Thirds with similar body?
Everybody must be into viral marketing nowadays. The problem as always is price. Of all those who are clamouring for features and new uses of a system, how many will be left to really buy a camera when it hits 1500 $?
And even if they are bought by some early adopter how long a company will be able to keep the asking price?
As I see it is not what people are willing to pay but who needs it. I would be the more dissappointed the more the price of pro level OM-D is below 2000 €. Of course I would be glad to have everything at 10 €. In real world such is not simply possible.
We have plenty of cheap options. I would like to see a pro-option to supplement what we have now, and this includes high grade optics and fast C-AF. The fastest way to usage of high grade optics is FT lenses. Simple as that.
-p-
Do you really think that 90% of m4/3 users cannot live with 4/3 lenses and a big uberexpensive camera? Think again. They’ll never fork for such a camera, not 2000 $, or even buy big, heavy zooms. It goes completely against the m4/3 paradigm.
When they need big, they already have their Nikon or Canon FF. So who is going to foot the bill? The few hundred veterans of 4/3? As always you live in a delusional world if you think that cropped sSLR can make a comeback above a limited price.
The market has already decided to go FF, or use m4/3. There is not room in between, except if you consider buying 4/3 lenses at firesale prices., or if you already have them. Then to replace them with a full blown FF system might be more expensive. But it really concerns only few people, and a big, high priced, non FF camera is not going to attract newcomers.
It’s not so much the market has gone FF, but the push by Canon & Nikon for more affordable FF bodies is more of a marketing ploy to attract would be mirrorless purchases to consider a FF instead with their cheaper FF models (6D & D600 etc.).
> Do you really think that 90% of m4/3 users cannot live with 4/3 lenses and a big uberexpensive camera? Think again.
Who cares if these users can or cannot? These “pro” lenses have been marketed bij Olympus, Nikon and Canon for ages.
> When they need big, they already have their Nikon or Canon FF. So who is going to foot the bill? The few hundred veterans of 4/3? As always you live in a delusional world if you think that cropped sSLR can make a comeback above a limited price.
I must be delusional too, because I think (full frame + teleconverter + long focal length prime/zoom) is expensive and cumbersome. You do not appear to have any experience with it, making silly assumptions instead.
Modern 4/3 or APS-C sensors are so good they make up for the light loss you’d get with a FF+TC combination (*especially* with the f/2.0 Olympus FT primes) You get cheaper + smaller with often more than acceptable quality. It’s viable.
> There is not room in between, except if you consider buying 4/3 lenses at firesale prices., or if you already have them. Then to replace them with a full blown FF system might be more expensive. But it really concerns only few people, and a big, high priced, non FF camera is not going to attract newcomers.
Mere speculation. You do your own market research and get back to us.
Jeez, I always think it’s hilarious that some people simply cannot see beyond full frame… Medium format is much bigger than a silly 35mm sensor, but it’s simply is not practical in many cases. With the introduction of the D800, current sensor quality has proven to be the deciding factor and now everybody’s lusting for the best glass to really make the most of those 36mp.
To spell it out: that FF SLR is feasting on the MF market. Better sensors do just that, provided the glass is there.
I think youre reasoning is solid. True amateurs (like Amalric, for instance) have limited funds and apparently already made up their mind, but professional FT users need an E-5 successor, preferably in 2013. Professional mFT users (current and potential) could use a camera that could be considered the EM-5’s big brother. Solution: one camera that fit both bills.
for me its better for Oly to put their R&D to down size their beautiful HG zoom lenses so it can perform better with mFT body rather then up size their body do accommodate FT-mFT capability
OM-D + 12-60/2.8-4 (mFT version) + 45/1.8 will become my great traveling kit…IMHO
How do you want to make HG lenses smaller, unless you also make them slow lenses? Also, a lot of mass (big and heavy glass) needs to be moved in HG lenses to focus, and that is less than ideal with contrast detection AF.
I would buy such a camera in a moment. I own many of the 4/3 HG lenses and for a long time was hoping for a better sensor. I also find the EM-5 a little small, albeit acceptable. I love the E-5 and its ergonomics and reliability. And I have many m4/3 lenses as well. I am not worried about the size of the body. I always felt that the major advantage of the smaller sensor was the reduced lens size. I guess for me the main advantage would be to continue to use the 150mm and the 300mm, perhaps in combination with the m4/3 12, 17, 45, and 75, which I also have. All I’d need would be a 10mm wide angle and perhaps a 12mm or 14mm shift lens.
In this case just a smart adapter (translucent mirror + integrated PDAF) mounted on an E–M5 would fit your needs. Why do you consider a totally new, bulky and expensive body?
Sony PDAF style adapter is not the solution:
1. Loss of light, more than half a stop.
2. These mirrors are delicate and difficult to clean without cumulative degradation of surface.
3. Only a smaller and less effective AF sensor system fits in compared to what we have in DSLR bodies.
4. Already in body PDAF systems have problems in focusing accuracy. They can not be built with tight enough tolerances for todays high density sensors. Such a system built into an adapter only makes the tolerances and those problems ten times worse..
-p-
Hi Admin,
The upcoming OMD Line Mirrorless camera will come with a Hybrid AF. PDAF will be similar to those of Sony SLT Cameras. It will come with an adapter and your old FT lenses will focus ( Believe it or not ) even Faster than any of your existing FT Bodies…..That’s all I can say !!!
I’m already invested in the 4/3 system so I would love to see this camera become a reality.