The E-P5 comments are divided between people who thinks this is an overall nice new camera and people who doesn’t’ believe the E-P5 makes sense in today’s market. I picked up two statements expressing in short two different views on the E-P5:
Thom Hogan: “I was an early E-P1 purchaser and upgraded right up to the eventual OM-D E-M5. An E-P5 would be a step backwards, as far as I’m concerned. I’d also have to assume that the few new features we see in the E-P5 (focus peaking, WiFi, etc.) will make their way to the inevitable OM-D E-M6. So I’m good to go. But would someone buy into the E-P5 instead of an OM-D E-M5? That seems debatable.” (Source: Sansmirror).
Douglas Brown: “Frankly, I went to the preview prepared to dismiss it as a model that should be merged into the EPL series, but came away totally impressed with the build, new functionality, interface changes, and most especially the new EVF.” (Source: Torontowide).
The E-P5 is certainly not going to be a big jump in the MFT history (as it was with the E-P1, GF1, GH2 and E-M5). Yes, the E-P5 isn’t a deal-breaker and yet it has some new nice features. Hard to say yet if this will be a success or failure in terms of market sales. For now the E-P5 superkits remains the hottest option according to Amazon ranking (Click here). The body only preorders are not really high.
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Specs, Price and Preorders:
E-P5 Black at Amazon, Adorama, Samys. In Europe at Amazon Germany, Amazon UK and at Wex UK.
E-P5 White at Amazon, Adorama, Bhphoto and Samys. In Europe at Amazon Germany, Amazon UK and at Wex UK.
E-P5 Silver at Amazon, Adorama, Bhphoto and Samys. In Europe at Amazon Germany, Amazon UK and at Wex UK.
E-P5 Black with 17mm f/1.8 lens and VF-4 at Amazon, Adorama, Bhphoto and Samys. In Europe at Amazon UK.
E-P5 Silver with 17mm f/1.8 lens and VF-4 at Amazon, Adorama, Bhphoto and Samys. In Europe at Amazon UK.
E-P5 White with 17mm f/1.8 lens and VF-4 at Amazon UK.
E-P5 Black with 14-42mm lens at Amazon Germany, Amazon UK and Wex UK.
E-P5 White with 14-42mm lens at Amazon Germany and Amazon UK.
E-P5 Silver with 14-42mm lens at Amazon Germany, Amazon UK and at Wex UK.
17mm f/1.8 Black at Adorama, Bhphoto and Samys.
45mm f/1.8 Black at Adorama, Bhphoto and Samys. In Europe at Amazon Germany.
75mm f/1.8 Black at Adorama, Bhphoto and Samys.
VF-4 viewfinder at Adorama, Bhphoto and Samys.
110 Responses
My humble opinion:
Great camera with a too high price tag.
Or let me say it in a different way.
A absolutely brilliant camera to buy in 2 years for 300 euro…
Exactly so. A blogger compared it to the X100, and found the E-P5 with EVF overpriced by 200 $.
Lepidi wrote that in France it will be sold only in luxury shops, and not in the whole network which has Oly products. So it is personal jewellry.
One can live without a built in EVF, but the design, which was understandable at the beginning, is now getting long in the tooth.
@amalric : Lepidi is only trying to make the French buy their gear at some shop in Paris because he must have a deal with them or so. I’ve not seen this information anywhere else, so I guess it’s just another “mistake” of this no so trustworthy blog.
The E-P5 is not a luxury product! It’s just a niche product. I still prefer the form factor of the E-M5. But I’m sure the E-P line has its fans.
i’m french and he’s totally wrong…
> A absolutely brilliant camera to buy in 2 years for 300 euro…
Agreed. Price is the only real flaw. And time heals all wounds. 🙂
Yes….it is an overpriced camera…but what camera isn’t when it is released??? All camera companies benefit from the initial-anticipation buyers..I think that most of us have been there, ready for a new model and ready to buy… I think the price of the E-P5 will drop sooner than later after the initial bloom dissipates.
I own an EM5, so I have no intention of purchasing this camera (I also will not look thru the new LVF, ..don’t want to know what I am missing, LOL!).
I think that the E-P5 looks like a great, stylish, well built camera that will appeal to a lot of buyers. If you have not bought into the OMD for whatever reason…perhaps this style body will appeal to you, with its Wifi, etc. No one can deny THAT this camera is loaded with great features, a good sensor, IBIS, all in a combination that is very appealing. It’s a fun, useful image maker! Now…about that price…….
Actually, plenty of cameras are not overpriced when released.
I think the P5 kit with 17mm lens and VF4 is a really good deal.
But the body only and the 14-42 kit is overprized, regarding the M5 kit with 14-42mm has exactly the same list prize. So a list prize of 800 euros for body only and 900 euros for the P5 kit with 14-42 seems much more realistic.
May be a good deal but why not buy the OM-D EM-5 instead?
Why is the VF-4 only in black?
Because many people here can only do (street) photography with black gear. I expect to see a lot of new Bressons and Erwitts now, with their black camera + black lenses + black EVF! 😉
I don’t want to talk for everyone in the street shooting category, but we are already on this site, being waiting for Oly all-black gears for years! We couldn’t do a proper job and take good pictures because of the “bling-bling” silver lenses. That was so unnerving. Now luckily we can go all black with our Olympus gears. Excellent job Oly! Oh, and the 1/8000th is the icing on the cake!
Anonymous, I don’t think I am a mage, but I have never had a problem in taking candid pictures with silver lenses. Or a silver Em5. BUT I understand that a black lens can help you to achieve the “right attitude”. I don’t want to start a discussion over it, but PERSONALLY I don’t need a masked/black camera/lens for “street” photography. I understand easier those who ask for the same coloured combination, for the aesthetic reason.
It’s only really a good deal relative to the very poor deal offered by the body. If you were planning on paying _full_ retail for the 17mm and VF4, okay, the body is now at $670, which is a mediocre kitting discount if you suppose the body ought to be more like $800. (For comparison, the E-M5’s kit discount was $200.)
As a couple asides:
* I find myself wondering if Olympus isn’t trying to push the 17mm lens, after being disappointed in sales.
* We may well see dekitted bodies selling for $800-$850 after release. That certainly would be rather interesting.
+1, most of time body only = regular price, kit = discount.
now with ep5 body only = overprice, kit = regular price. the saving looks awesome but if you think again and compare with other offers you will see there’s nothing exciting about it.
Exactly my thoughts. Don’t get me wrong, the camera seems to be great, but, in all honesty, i can’t find a logical reason why I would either:
1) Pick it instead of an E-M5, which is basically the same guts, plus weathersealing, built in EVF, the possibility to attach battery grip, etc. Oh! And, in several countries, the E-M5 is even cheaper than this!!!
or
2) Buy it if I already am an E-M5 (or GH3 for that matter) owner looking for a smaller, more compact backup body. There’s the E-PL5 for that, a way better value proposition. I don’t think an existing user of the flagship models would be interested in investing this much in a stylish retro backup body. It makes no sense.
I believe wifi, 1/8000 shutter speed or the possibility to attach a “better” EVF are good points, but certainly not enough to pick this camera above the other choices, not for most “rational” users at least.
An E-M5 owner wanting a second body but needing the 1/8000 top shutter & also desiring the 5 axis IS with WiFi being just a bonus, I can see a number being bought on that basis (especially as a kit with the 17mm f1.8 lens & VF-4).
While I agree that it’s a pretty excellent device, it’s not without its shortcomings. Quickly: heavy metal body and no weather seal (+status iron, -functionality), screen doesn’t flip around (only occasionally needed, but very useful when it is), no GPS (smartphone connection doesn’t cut it for hikes), weak video options (and no focus peaking), no EVF, etc.
Nitpicking? Maybe, but mind that while the price of this is dropping, new and better cameras are going to come out that plug those holes and improve on what it already has. In a year, is it going to be a good buy while it’s still over $750 (supposing history of P3 holds)? Heck, depending on your use case, the G6 is quite competitive with the P5 and it’s at that price _now_. In two years, when it’s at $450 (since it started higher than the P3), how is it going to compete with the PL8 which will be about the same price (judging by PL5)?
So, I suppose I’m in Thom’s camp here: unless the price drops rapidly there’s limited value in this camera. Still, I suppose for people more interested in best than value, it’s certainly available for purchase 🙂
“Great camera with a too high price tag.”
I have to agree. Look at the price of similarly spec’d NEX-5R (sensor of similar IQ, tilt LCD, WiFi, focus peaking, touch screen, full HD movies, …) : 500 euros with kit lens. While E-P5 is 1100 EUR with its kit lens. OK, IBIS may be worth 100-200 EUR (for making photos much more :)), but E-P5 shouldn’t be more than 700 with 14-42mm.
And yeah, every camera is overpriced at launch. I remember the reactions when GX1 came out with a 1000 $ price tag. And look what it sells for now.
Except for the looks and handling, I like E-P5, so I’ll wait until the price comes down. My E-PL1 is still working fine.
“The camera industry is already a tough place to stay competitive. It’s going to get tougher. Spending engineering resources on marginal change won’t really cut into the Canikon duopoly.”
And making retro styled bodies with basically the same guts won’t cut it either.
Olympus really shot themselves in the foot this time.
This is the first Olympus m43 camera that really interests me, though I have been using Panasonic since the G1 came out.
I have come to prefer the tilt-up add-on EVF. For years I said I would not buy a camera without a built-in viewer and stuck to Panasonic’s G and GH series, but after handling a friend’s GX1 I was sold. In fact I bought 2 bodies and really love them. Adding the tilt screen on the Olympus is a big plus for me, as well.
Biggest downside to me is the inability to use add-on flash or microphones at the same time as the EVF – at least that is how I read the specs, please correct me if I’m wrong on that. And I would prefer a fully articulated LCD.
The price is what it is. I expect that as the digital camera market reaches saturation prices will rise, as manufacturers will have to recover development costs over smaller sales numbers. I also expect the pace of new models to slow and discounts to become less common. I don’t like it, but think it has to happen for the camera makers to stay in business.
A bit surprised about Thom’s opinion sounding a bit narrow minded/focused. Surely he can imagine that lots of people prefer the PEN shape instead of the OMD. I have an OMD also but I can dig the external EVF concept.
Agreed. I’m also really surprised that no reviewers seem to appreciate the modularity the the E-P5 gives with its optional VF. Maybe it’s because they have access to a plethora of cameras for any situation that a simple hobbyist like myself simply don’t have.
I think the E-P5 has better improvements compared to the previous E-P3 than the E-PL5, the E-PM2 or the ridiculous E-PL6.
Of course Olympus will make all these improvements into the new E-M6 on 2014 and then somebody will say “Bah, all these we will see in an eventually new E-P6” 😛
Olympus is moving this premium pen into the the $1000 price point because the OM-D will effectively become the “Pen” Pro model moving higher in spec and price point. It’s a fine plan except in order to keep the m4/3 system relevant and competitive this camera, for the price, should have incorporated a built-in EFV even if it was the same resolution of the current OM-D. Then releasing the higher res add-on EFV would have made the latest/greatest tech available to this camera and just as importantly hinted as what’s to come in the next OM-D.
So, one has used the camera, one hasn’t?
There is a saying in the marketing world, if you dont “get it” it probably wasn’t for you. The E-P5 advances a number of key areas and introduces a new EVF which is class leading. If that isn’t enough, well you are probably happy with your existing camera.
Abraham
Yeah, we all know who this camera is for! 🙂
Dentists? 🙂
..and lawyers and wealthy real estate agents and..
Don’t forget car salesmen. 😉
dentists an rest of those types will buy mark3 or D800 …oly is too cheap and senzor too small
People like that dont know jack about sensor size, the pen looks pretty and luxurious, thats all that matters
And the E-M5 is for patients. 😉
Keep in mind a fuji x-e1 from last year has a built in view finder with the same resolution. The vf4 will be bigger but the vf4 problem is- put it on and you just destroyed a key selling proposition of the pen5- portability (add the hassle if an external thing like that too).
Anyone looking to use a vf4 would probably be best served by te em-5
While it may be bigger on, unlike the Fuji, it can be removed. That is why they call it optional. Plus this viewfinder is barely bigger than the old one.
Yes, unlike the Fuji, it’s optional and can be removed. Considering the Fuji is near the same size as a camera, I would say that’s a Fuji pro, not a cons, and a cons for the pen.
>> “(focus peaking, WiFi, etc.) will make their way to the inevitable OM-D E-M6.”
Shouldn’t focus peaking be added to the current OMD EM5? As it should be possible with the current hardware? Or do Olympus not add features via firmware?
I hope so!
Admin, any news on this front? The E-M5 needs a firmware update and especially to add 24p even if it uses the same codec. Focus peaking should be added and can be added IMHO.
i guess they do not add these features to existing camera but they will add to new camera ,
😉
We need firmware update on older Pen if we will use VF4 on camera, so i hope this come after summer.
I was told by Olympus that they have no intentions of releasing a firmware update to improve the paltry video capabilities of the EM-5 (or any other PEN) even though the hardware is entirely capable. So don’t hold your breath.
Worse, even the E-P5 is on track to have the same C+ video capabilities. Olympus will apparently have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into taking video seriously.
The E-P5 should be regarded as a lateral branch of the m4/3 evolution. It is targeted at the fashion market more than at the tech-conscious photography market. This is why Mr. Hogan and others “don’t get it”. It may be a good camera, but first and foremost it’s a luxury accessory. The wood grip versions may actually sell more than the regular ones, eventually.
As a luxury accessory, it might make sense, agreed. It would also make a lot of sense at a more reasonable price point, between the E-PL5 and the E-M5.
I can see , the new functionality Wifi it will help me a lots for the street photography,.
I used to putted the camera,.GF1/E-PL5 in front of my chest with the strap lugging around my neck and use zone focus with the zuiko F2/12 or F1.8/17 but the problem is the composition is not always good ,.
But now with the new Wifi feature on E-P5 ,i can use my iPhone and connected as my window,.to see the composition and also to take a shot without people have to notice they’re being shot,..,and that will be cool.
If the window on the Iphone.can assist the Focus point by touching the on the screen and focusing .
The use of lenses it will be more wider,.you won’t just depending on Zone focusing with the Zuiko F2/12mm or F1.8/17mm ,for the street photography.,but also any Lens with AF like 45 ,60, 75 and also Lumix lenses and sigma will be compatible and fun with this kind of method,..
I can see your point,.wow something you can not do even with the OM-D
thats not street photo…thats voyeur
Agree.
Do you dress like a ninja too? wait that will capture attention. a more ordinary disguise would be better.. LOL –
There’s always be a circumstances you would find the environtment would not allow you to take picture , in some parts of the world if you ever had traveled before, you’ll be force in a very tough situation ,.even in some environtment like galery,meuseum ,monarchy,temple etc you would need a legal permited to take picture,.
And i think this is where those SMART japanese enginer /R&D at olympus would think about these one and try to give us the solution or smart alternative ,.which IDIOT like you would never understand.
In other words those Smart Japanese people want to tell you dont be like an IDIOT wearing ninja suit, but use this WIFI feature .to take the picture,.
Welcome to the Future ,..IDIOTS
I don’t see why you feel the need to offend and call names.
Leaving apart your bad manners, I think it’s necessary to discuss upon each situation. In some museums (almost all), you can’t take photos because people are supposed to visit in person, even your friends who care so much about what you have seen in that museum you visited. And because there are catalogues and books, for selling.
Sometimes it’s because your camera flash ruins paintings and even stone statues.
This is for museums and churches.
You can take photos without flash and with a fast prime. No need of a f0.95 btw.
If you want to capture a candid scene, something happening in the street, you should take into consideration other people privacy.
But given your manners it seems you don’t care so much about other people..
MY personal rule: shoot first, then kindly ask, IF the person is clearly visible in the photo.
This because I’m interested in what happens around me (as photojournalist).
And I’m not interested in taking pics at unknown people talking at the phone or doing their normal own business. That’s what I call voyeurism.
Hey while you are calling names I have a doubt you can clarify from your previous post..
Is it the ninja the “Smart Japanese people” you are referring to?
I see it as a good camera, along with the other E-P**, however the WiFi and Focus Peaking are not enough to sell it to me, so apart from the Sensor I see nothing over the E-P1/2/3 other than change in design.
It’s obvious the choice of the flash rather than a viewfinder (build in) hinders the EP5 to peak the summit.
Imagin having a small flash in yer pocket but the large, bulky viewfinder : )
Whens using the VF you cant use a real flash! Ha ha ha, is it only to creat one different feature than the OM E-M series? Exept the weather sealing and the VF its the exact same camera, same size, same retro style…
Ask me they should make the E-M series more semiproish like the E series.
I think olympus could have somehow make an EP5 with built in EVF, that would make it worth upgrading from an em5 but at this point, why even bother getting an ep5.
The Ep5 will sell well and prove a lot of people wrong….
+100
I believe it is,. And I already PRE-ORDER it
Look carefully at how Olympus has tiered their micro-4/3 cameras.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/05/16/business/olympus-returns-to-black-in-fiscal-12-but-digital-camera-sales-weigh/#.UZUOeSugmVt
big loss with cameras… at one point olmypus will stop making cameras
This could happen. Olympus is rumor to be stopping production of their p&s cameras. The p&s cameras at one time was very profitable and kind of carried the higher-end cameras. With smartphones/tables replacing the p&s and the p&s market is satuated with cameras the future sales of p&s cameras don’t look that good. So it is good to see Olympus leading the way in stopping production of these cameras. From the rumors Olympus will be releasing a high-end p&s camera, an OMD and an E-Series camera this year. Hopefully these cameras will sell well.
They will: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/05/16/olympus-to-axe-cheapest-point-and-shoots
I am somewhat disappointed with Mr. Hogan’s post. It is rather uncomfortable how close the E-P5 comes to the E-M5 in terms of pricing, but I think Hogan is a little off base insofar he talks about all of the things that support his supposition without conceding some other very important facts. Most importantly, not once does he mention the 1/8000 shutter speed. This is a big deal. Being able to shoot wide open on my 75mm 1.8 without having to fit a ND filter is nice. There is also peaking (but only in photo mode…somewhat of a fail IMHO).
In regards to the E-P5’s position to the E-M5, I believe this too will change in time. It will come down in price. And I suspect it will replace the E-M5 in the lineup when the next generation OM-D is released. Here is what I mean: When the Panasonic G6 is released, the price of the G5 goes down further and it fully replaces the G3, which is finally completely phased out. You can buy an E-M5 for $1,000 today, but the next OM-D will most likely bow at $1,300, leaving plenty of room for the E-P5. Though the G3 is currently backfilling the G5 at a lower price point, manufacturers do not do the same thing with their top cameras, ergo the GH2 was discontinued when the GH3 was announced. Also, I suspect the OM-D will be the first model to feature the next generation MFT sensor. If it is something like 24 megapixels (can be done, the 1-inch Sony RX100 packs in 20), then the EP-5 is going to carry the banner as the low-light, high-iso, high-speed ninja; while the OM-D will be a landscape and studio samurai (especially appropriate considering its built in EVF).
According to Olympus, OM-D is not a single camera, but a system that eventually will consist of a lower-end, medium and higher-end camera. It is very likely that if a new OM-D is introduced this year, it will NOT be a replacement of the E-M5 but either the lower or the higher grade body for the OM-D line. An actual E-M5 replacement is not very likely before spring 2014.
So you might be right about the $1300 price point, tho I wouldn’t be surprised by a $1500 price point either. The E-M5 being around for a year now will slowly see its price drop. But it doesn’t compare to the G3, G5, G6 situation, it is more like how there can be both a G6 and a GH3, or an E-PL5 and E-P5 (both PENs).
I fear 1500 Euros will be the price. Ok, 1499 Euro, just to sound less expensive. (It is, I know..)
Being able to shoot at f1.8 without an nd filter *in some situations* is nice. Being able to not have to worry about attaching/detaching and breaking and carry the vf4 (plus able to attach a full external flash while having an evf) is nicier (much much nicier).
To be fair, I labeled the article “I’m not sure I get it” and not “I don’t get it.” I’m willing to be persuaded otherwise, but at present I haven’t seen anyone make a really strong case for the E-P5 and E-M5 at basically the same price with the primary difference being what’s built-in versus what isn’t: flash and EVF. How does a store sell that differentiation?
Yes, I’ve discounted the 1/8000 shutter speed, slight changes to focus, and a few other small features. My expectations are that an E-M6 has all those things. Which brings me to a point I didn’t write: there’s a good chance that the E-M6 goes up in price point. That’s the only thing that makes real sense to me in the current positioning.
Also, note that this was not a review, it was simply me writing down my reaction to the camera itself. Perhaps the proof is in the actual product. We’ll see soon enough.
I appreciate your feedback, Thom. For me, the 1/8000th shutter clinches it. Outdoors, I run into limitations with the 1/4000th shutter. Fast, relatively inexpensive single-focal length lenses like the 75mm 1.8 and the 17mm 1.8 can obviate the disadvantages of the MFT system in terms of depth of field, but not if the photographer is forced to stop down to f/2.8 or more. The 1/320th flash sync is also a boon if it works with studio lights on location (might make a suitable replacement for my D3X when I don’t need the extra pixels). The focus peaking is also nice. Finally, the EVF (though optional) is superior to the one fitted to the E-M5. I understand where you are coming from in terms of their price points. That is certainly a concern today. But I do think it is important to consider the E-M5 is much further along in its product cycle, while the E-P5 is at the beginning of its cycle. It should settle down to $800 soon enough, and at that price point, it’s a good buy. Probably not going to pick it up at $1,000.
You’re sort of making my point. The new features aren’t enough to make you buy it at the present price. I’ve not said that the E-P5 is a bad camera, only that its differentiation from the OM-D is problematic. You end up with a customer weighing small pluses against small minuses. Technically, that person wants weatherproof, 1/8000, built-in flash, built-in EVF (that tilts), better LCD, and the whole litany of stuff that define the two cameras. Instead, they’re presented with a bit of a Morton’s Fork.
I suspect that the E-P5 and E-M6 will be differentiated, as the E-M6 will have all the features of the E-P5 except for the built-in flash, and some additional ones. But this just exposes the problem of doing a model lineup that isn’t correctly timed. The E-P5 will sell fewer copies than it should until both the E-M5 is off the market and an E-M6 is at a higher price, by which time the E-P5 itself is likely already discounted due to its low sales numbers. In other words, revenue to Olympus isn’t being maximized because the options to customers are overlapping and confusing.
Remember, when Olympus started work on the E-P5 they could have had those same engineers do that work on the base E-M5 instead of the E-P3: add 1/8000, better LCD, better focus, better IS, etc.
Well, exactly so. Oly designers always seem slightly out of sync, with the exception of the E-M5. But now the confusion is on again, with the result that sales will suffer.
IMHO having a built in EVF should be the dividing line between entry levels and advanced, like at Sony.
As it is the E-PLx will stay the top seller, the OM-D the next natural step, and the E-Px will be relegated to luxury item, with indifferent sales.
FWIW, the single thing which stopped me, so far, buying an E-M5, is the lack of titling EVF. I can’t see why so many manufacturers saddle themselves witb OVF constraints when designing EVFs. And that goes for Fuji too. If we have to live with the bloody things, let’s at least get some benefit from the opportunities they open up, not just put up with their limitations.
However, yes, the price is a little on the eye watering side.
But you are looking at the Fuji option here as if it was all limitation and the other all win. It’s not like that. The Fuji being built into the body, is something you will always have with you, and not be a hassle that makes your camera bigger or could break. I will agree that a tilting EVF can be a pro, but Fuji’s option also has its pros.
Probably because there’s some small advantage to the traditional “at eye” design in terms of camera stability. One could argue that IS reduces that need, but to defeat legacy you need a major advantage. Rotation adds complexity to design, after all, plus the way the external EVF does it would increase likelihood of damage when the product is dropped or bumped if done that way on the body itself.
One complaint I’ve had about the way our cameras are designed these days is the isolation of the Japanese engineering teams from the customers. Thus, they tend to evaluate their ease of doing something against their committee decisions on usefulness. They’re not necessarily evaluating user need/desire as highly as they should, thus often miss small things like this.
Thom, I think a big differentiator actually is- the fact the Pen5 is in the end a smaller camera. Sure, you have to take out the VF4 of the equation but the point stands. To me for example, as a street photographer, the difference in that “little size” is huge- it’s pocketable vs not. That’s huge.
Also I really think the EM6 is going to go up in price. The EM6 taking the place of what was… the Olympus 4/3rds line proper…
Maybe. I’m not convinced on this point yet, and won’t really have the ability to test that theory in practice until my E-P5 arrives. Technically, the E-P5 is only smaller in the height dimension. It’s already a big camera width wise. One of the reasons I was using a GF5 as my second camera instead of a E-P3 was actually right to this point: the GF5 was tangibly smaller. Personally, I’m willing to give up features for size, and I think most people are, too. Sure, I wouldn’t mind if ALL the features got crammed into the smallest possible size, but when it comes to actual size versus features, if size is my motivating characteristic (carry all the time in any pocket other than shirt), that’s what I’ll make my decision on.
To each his own. I am a big fan of the Olympus Pen line, having given up my Nikon system for it without regrets. However, sorry Thom … I have no interest in the OMD or its successors. I tried as hard as I could, but its the form factor. I tend to shoot “Rolleifex” style, so the VF-2 and the VF-4 are deal breakers for me … toward the PEN line and away from the classical (D)SLR. The integrated EVF is meaningless to me. I’m tempted to go for the E-P3 ($369 at Adorama) … but my wife says to wait. I’ll own the E-P5, 17mm f1.8, and VF-4 by this coming fall even if the price is still $1,499 for the kit. Bottom line: the PEN line does have its fans and they actually buy the cameras.
I can understand that omd-m5 owners will not upgrade to EP5, but for us who thought that omd-m5 was a great camera but just to freaking ugly to spend moneey on, the EP5 is very welcome..
It is not often that I agree with Thom Hogan, but in this case I do. Even the good report by Douglas Brown only stated that he was impressived with the camera after seeing it, but it sounds like he would have been more impressed with the EVF built-in in the top left corner.
My wife hs a E-PL2 that I got her for her birthday two years ago. She now wants a new camera for her birthday in late June. The VF3 lives on top of her camera. She really likes my E-M5. So it looks like I will be getting her an E-M5. If the E-P5 had a built-in EVF I might have gotten her one.
The price of the E-P5 does seem a little high when compare to the E-PL5 or the Sony Nex 5. I can see the price dropping to below $800 soon after release. I am guessing the next MFT camera Olympus is going to release is the OMD and it will be either the camera below or above the E-M5. The E-M5 will continue until pring or Summer of 2014. With the price difference between the E-P5 and the E-M5 being about $100 I would guess the next camera will be the one above the E-M5. Lets call it the OMD-Pro. I would guess the price will be around $1,500 USD if not slightly higher. It all depends upon how it specs out in relation to the pro-level aps-c cameras like the Canon 7D. I am also guessing it will be slightly bigger than the E-M5 to improve the ergonomic. It will be a very good platform for the f2.8 zooms Olympus should be coming out with.
Anyhow, I do like the features of the E-P5, but it is too expensive for a camera that doesn’t have a built-in EVF. One just has to compare it to the Sony Nex-6 and Fuji X-E-1. Still I like the featues and am looking forward to getting those featues and a few others in the E-M6 next year.
Humpback Pen! ^_^
Thom Hogan sort of has a point, the main issue is that the camera is overpriced and should be $800 for body only, as the E-P3 was. What’s kind of troubling is that now they’re probably going to raise the price of the E-M6 too, probably to $1200 (E-M5 started at $1000). On the other hand, Olympus cameras really are superior to Panasonic so enthusiasts will probably still pay.
No gripes with the E-P5, the problem is that it doesn’t bode well for prices to come. Since SmartPhones are eating a large part of the imaging market, companies are moving upstream the value chain like the salmon, in order to preserve their profits with lesser sales, that is what is worrying.
To be a photog, albeit an amateur one like me, will become more and more expensive, not only forbodies, but lenses too. That could feed a negative loop, until all hardware will become a luxury item.
Japanese companies were never elitist, like the Europeans became or were forced to become, but SmartPhones could have the same effect on them.
Another worry is that if mirrorless prices skyrocket, C&N could have an easy game in price dumping them, with cheap, small FF. And then mirrorless could be smothered in the cradle, so to speak.
As for the the E-P5, it will be interesting to see how long it can hold the full price. Despite all the reviews it has made very little ripples at DPR, meaning that despite the progress, the market judges it an elitist experiment.
Not a great worry. The worry would rather be about the price of the coming OM-D Pro, which has to be a watershed for the whole system.
That is only a problem for the end consumer if you are used to buy a camera every six months to every two years. Maybe time to realize the photography won’t improve that way and its just mindless consumerism. 😉
What a lot of people who are saying “do we need an EM5 without the EVF built in” don’t realize is there are probably a lot of people who would prefer the smaller body and only have to put the EVF on when they want to use it. I always preferred the body style of the EP3 that I sold to get the EM5. But I made the switch NOT because of the EVF, but because I wanted the improved IBIS, the improved sensor/processor and the improved control layout. So for me – and I am sure there are others also – this camera is a better fit than the EM5.
Now – is the price for the body only a bit high, sure – but that is the way Olympus has always marketed their newest “flagship” bodies. Yes, eventually the price will drop – if you want to wait.
Why is it confusing for bloggers n reviewers to understand?
Want an evf, get om-d?
Want larger screen n on board flash, get PEN ep-5 and u get an extra stop with 1/8000
The weather sealing to me is a non sealing feature until there roadmap has more weather sealed len’s – 1 average lens is hardly a selling feature for the weather sealing.
Perfectly reasonable logic by olympus in my opinion.
I think the next pen variant should have 1/4000s, no on board flash, no wifi, no peaking but optimized video performance ie epl-6 ans called epl-5 Japan only the epl-5s.
Leaving a lineup of evf, pen, video configurations.
“Why is it confusing for bloggers n reviewers to understand?
Want an evf, get om-d?”
I want a pen with a left side rear internal EVF. Why is it confusing for you to understand? Most others here want the same. The original pens have viewfinders. I would also be happy with portrait mode. But want the viewfinder on the right then.
“Most others here want the same”
Says whom?
Bart. There has been a constant demand for an integrated EVF from the time the ep5 was hinted at. Possibly one of the biggest single requirements. Just go back a month and review some of the comments.
You are confusing a few things here:
– the amount of noise made by a group does not actually say much about the size of that group
– people wanting a PEN with an EVF does not imply they all demand a left corner viewfinder
– people who do not get what they want are bound to be a lot more vocal then those who do get what they want
– I never said there was no demand for an integrated viewfinder (and if you would yourself do what you suggest, read back a month of comments, you’d have known that I’d in fact really like a PEN with integrated viewfinder), but I do question if it is the majority of potential customers for an E-P5 that want this.
Please read and consider a bit more carefully next time.
Bart.
Part 1 – Noise, So true. But ignore it at your peril. The old saying smoke without fire. Seems to prove right, time after time.
Part 2- Left side. Left side, or left of centre is the position of the EVF on all digital cameras other than DSLRs. They are as central as the body allows. I don’t recall any on the right but that does not mean there are none. However many old film cameras had a viewfinder in the centre. But the standard today is left in the body or centre on top of the body. Placed elsewhere may not be acceptable. Unacceptability is to be avoided. Hence the call for a left side EVF.
Part 3 – Yes entirely. Except. The winning team in all sport is more vocal than the looser.
Part 4 – Your questioning comment above implies such but does not necessarily say such. Also. I never said, that you said there was no demand. It cannot ever be implied from my comment that was responding to you. And yes I have read your earlier comments which is why I was surprised to see your “Says whom?” comment.
And I neversaid there are no people asking for a viewfinder, but I qustion your claim that MOST people are asking for a left corner one specifically, rather, I think most people who want that go buy another camera that offers one.
Also, your ‘winning team’ doesn’t apply, there is no game to win, nor are there any winning tools.
As with your smoke without fire comment, the amount of smoke says little about the size of the fire unless you know what is burning.
“And I neversaid there are no people asking for a viewfinder,”
True and I never said you did.
“but I question your claim that MOST people are asking for a left corner one specifically”,
See my part 2 response and the following.
“rather, I think most people who want that go buy another camera that offers one.”
That is precisely what the whole thing is about. To minimise walkers to another brand. Olympus needs to cater to distinct markets with the same/similar camera. The SLR type the range finder type and the want it very small type. The parts need to be common as much as possible to reduce cost. The style is the grabber along with the functionality. As a post further down the page says auto makers have been doing it all the time.
“Also, your ‘winning team’ doesn’t apply, there is no game to win, nor are there any winning tools”
Bart, there is always a winning team. Even if only one says its a race. Scores, profits, biggest or smallest as applicable. All have winners. Where is betamax? Who was Blue Ray DVD battling with? Kodak?
“As with your smoke without fire comment, the amount of smoke says little about the size of the fire unless you know what is burning.”
To be effective in tackling a fire it should be known what is burning, yes. But, letting the fire take hold while it is being analysed is not the way to extinguish the fire and prevent any more smoke. Having the solution after total destruction is a bit meaningless for anyone other than historians and academics. Fire experts have a good sense of what may be burning, like wise Engineers have a good sense of what is wanted next. Marketing departments are notorious for ignoring what the real wants are and imposing the corporate or management wants.
First of all, you are implying I’m denying there is any such demand, while the ONE AND ONLY thing I am questioning is if the MAJORITY of users is asking for this.
Then, no, there is no ‘winning team’ here when it comes to SLR or rangefinder style handling, and it is totally absurd to approach it as such. Both can exist, both have a potential market, and everyone ‘wins’ if both exist. Beyond that, no not everything is about ‘winning’, some things are about cooperation, coexistence, improvement over your previous ‘attempt’. The concept of ‘competition’ is good, but within limits.
And last, you might end up not actually fighting a fire, but instead ‘fighting’ someone’s BBQ, a smoke machine for some show or what not. Figuring out what is up is really a good idea. (to witness, a little while ago, we had fire fighters disturbing a cremation because there was smoke). Hence, where there is smoke there is fire is just one step too simple, and actually a very very bad idea to use for making assumptions about other things then fires.
Besides, you are twisting the argument, you were suggesting that since people make noise about a left corner EVF, there MUST be a majority of users asking for this, and that is something you did not in any way substantiate, regardless of all the text you put into the effort. Additionally, twisting arguments like this isn’t a very honest way of trying to have a discussion, or to answer a critical comment.
So, I’ll ask again, who exactly is claiming that most users on here are asking for a left corner EVF, and where is his/her ‘proof’ for this. A simple question that can do with 2 simple answers, and none of what you posted comes anywhere near answering it.
Sorry but you MUST figure out what is the matter before deciding on going to fight it.
Hogan on Pen
http://www.43rumors.com/thom-hogan-thoughts-about-the-olympus-pen-pro-a-must-read/#comments
http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-first-image-of-the-new-olympus-e-p5/#comments
OM4, iso1638400, Martin, shep, Alexander, Ego0, ReadingZ, ColinH, AMVR
One named Bart said “I think they are wrong on this. It is possible to create clear differentiation between a PEN with EVF and a in basic features identical OM-D, in shape/looks but much more so in handling and by extension, the photographic techniques and styles both cater to.
I split this into 2 as more than 2 links go to moderation, the first part went to moderation anyway.
“http://www.43rumors.com/ft4-new-e-p5-and-e-pl6-info/#comments
Sticky tape, Anon, J White, ricky, Rainer, Jorgen. AMVR, Ross.
Sqweexy said
“Actually, from reading the comments here, it seems more people are dismayed at the E-P5 than thrilled by it. The general consensus here at 43rumors appears to be one of disappointment due to its lack of integrated EVF.”
Bart, this is only covering the past few entries. I think that as you have little interest in the EVF, you have not taken much note of the comments going back a fairly long way. True you have responded yourself but apparently mainly to the comment of cannibalisation not the subject which included EVF. As for left side there have been earlier comments re left side and the nose alongside the camera. My earlier comment was more of a where else do you put one. The consensus from Digital cameras with an integrated EVF or OVF is left or left of centre. Where else? And none of these links are ones I have posted on and found similar requirements to my comments on pen needing an integrated EVF.
Well the body only might be overprized.
Though you can buy the kit with 17mm lens and VF4 for 1450€, then sell the lens for lets say 400€ and the VF4 for about 200€.
So you get the body only for 850€. Cheaper than the OMD..
yes but thats only if you consider the 17 to actually be worth 500$
i cant find any shop which offers it for less than 500€
A car maker makes a 4 door 4 wheel car that is a reasonable seller. Then makes a 2 door soft top with many shared body panels and same mechanicals, and flashed up dash.
Happens all over the world. Happens with many manufacturers.
People buy one or the other or none. With international sharing the same engine and body pan can end up being shared by several makers who just change the skin. (and one can often charge double the price of the other).
This has been the way of life for the car industry for several lifetimes.
Why should there be complaints when a camera company emulates the car company.
Good point
The perfect example in the motor industry would be that of the VAG group, where Audi, Volkswagen & Skoda all produce the same car with the skins being the only real difference.
Or like Porsche car size; Cayenne is FF, Panamera is APS, Carrera is FT and Cayman is MFT. B-)
Also Ford, Mazda and Volvo. At grass roots level.
Too expensive, too much. I’ll wait the next one, with built in EVF .
The correct price will be 1000 euro but with the viewfinder.
You’ll be waiting years as there is zero evidence that such an offering is even on the drawing board of a PEN built in evf variant would ever be done.
E-M5 vs E-P5 is a false dilemma, it’s being pushed by people who bought E-M5 and now are convincing themselves they made the right choice. It’s apples and oranges, not worth debating. There’ll be new E-M6 with improvements from E-P5. There won’t be a new E-M5 firmware that puts them into E-M5. With Oly, it’s what-you-buy-is-what-you-end-up-with, no new features for free.
It’s true, I think most of the people who are concerned with this dilemma are the people who currently own the E-M5, struggling to justify their urge to buy the latest and “greatest” (?) again… 😉
Didn’t Canon just release a $12,000 usd tele lens. Price is relative. This camera is high, but looks to be very capable. I get great pictures on my E-PM2, so I’ll wait. With the improvements in the 5’s, at least we know Oly is making better gear.
Sad to see that people will just keep buying the same thing (the overall template for this camera is just E-P1 with tweaks) with slight and incremental changes to the software. we should reward Olympus for the philosophy, “How many times can we sell them the same thing and get away with it?” Apple/Steve Jobs promoted this planned obsolescence product development where the same thing is released with minor adjustments, and we’re all drinking the cool-aid!
Compared to the E-P1, it has a much better sensor, much better stabilization and an accessory port. Those are neither small hardware tweaks nor small incremental software updates.
That there is too much repetition in the Olympus PEN line, I fully agree, but your example is a bad one as it is an example of useful and real changes.
I always felt the E-P2 should have been the OM-D (with viewfinder we’ve been wanting from day one) and if they had given US what WE wanted,, it would have left little room for Panasonic & Sony to compete in a market Olympus created!
I couldn’t deal with my e-p2’s terrible ISO handling at 800+ and got a cheap upgrade: the G3 which has 2 major pluses: swivel LCD and great sensor. But I’m always missing my E-p2 for its feel and looks, and I can soon exchange my nice piece of plastic for the ultimate PEN, and then that will be that. No more upgrading bodies for several years.
Whether I’m prepared to lay down 1000 euro remains to be seen. Some say it will drop fast, some say it won’t at all.
Specs posted on Olympus.com show they plan to continue with a feeble video codec: no 24p, 20Mbps bit-rate max. I get that stills are a priority. But improve on the C+ video capabilities instead of including new art filters every time.