Strong competition for the Panasonic high end compact.
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I still have no confirmation from trusted sources but I am getting multiple mails from anonymous sources saying that the “mysterious” new Panasonic camera that is coming end of April may be a High End compact camera with larger (FT?) sensor. Apparently some of the sources talked with Panasonic managers and they all said the GX2 is not coming yet. Anyway, until trusted sources cannot confirm this I cannot guarantee that this may be a tactic from Panasonic to spread false rumors 🙂 test
Anyway, if the rumor is correct than Panasonic really has to reinvent the wheel to focus against the competition. Nikon just released the very compact Nikon Coolpix A (specs here). Pentax the cheap Pentax MX-1 (Specs here). Sony has the tiny RX100 (specs here) and the best in the class almost cetrainly is the Fuji X100s (specs here).
ThePhoBlographer tested the latter and wrote: “In all honesty, this camera’s RAW file performance had me looking at my Olympus OMD EM5 and thinking to myself that its raw files just weren’t up to standard. Indeed, the Sony sensor inside the OMD far outperformed by the X100s. Granted, that is a Micro Four Thirds sensor, but it is one of the best in the mirrorless camera segment.”
As I told you, Panasonic has to reinvent the wheel to be successful in that segment!
Premium compact camera price and specs check:
Fuji X100s at [shopcountry 37160].
Pentax MX-1 at [shopcountry 37161].
Nikon A at [shopcountry 37162].
Sony RX100 at [shopcountry 37661].
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Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
FT3=41-60% chance the rumor is correct
FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
59 Responses
To be honest I don’t see the point in a fixed-prime-compact by Panasonic unless it’s a full frame camera (which it won’t be). M4/3 offers so much more.
I agree. Just silly.
A fixed focal length camera will never be “Best in Class” to me. I don’t need a huge zoom. However, I do need at least 3x.
Panasonic doesn’t need to re-invent the wheel. They just need to re-present the LC1/ Digilux 2 with a bigger sensor and latest generation EVF. Keep the 3 control rings on the lens barrel (aperture, manual focus, zoom).
Even if they give us a fixed prime camera, or their 14/42 zoom pancake as a fixed lens, the EVF is the key. These OVF/EVF hybrid cameras aren’t the future, they’re the past rehashed. WYSIWYG is brilliant to have, and getting better all the time.
I keep looking at the X20. Love the styling and size, but….not going to go back to an optical VF.
I feel your pain. Sadly, Panasonic lost its taste for style and good photographic practice back in 2006. I will be very much surprised if something like the LC1 (or indeed, the L1) appears again in the next decade.
Totally agree. Panasonic actually INVENTED wheel, so to speak, with LC1 and L1. It’s been downhill in terms of innovation ever since then! I am still waiting for a worthy successor to L1 in m43 format but I am not holding my breath.
You’re absolutely right, i have L1 and god, it’s simply magical.
The future Gx must have same control layout and same pop-up flash.
And, the advanced compact, must be a Lc1 simply with new technologies:same sensor size, same lens, same body, but with natural improvement in IQ, autofocus and EVF.
It might be workable if Pany introduce its new tech the smartFSI in a one inch sensor to compete against the sony RX100. It will be slightly larger than the LX7 but with just as bright a fixed zoom? This is to replace the small form factor of the GF5 which will be upsized?
If this rumor is true it will compete in a class where simplicity is of the utmost concern. A quality fixed lens, fixed focal length camera that is coat-pocketable will appeal to those that wouldn’t care to buy additional lenses in the first place. In an age of smartphone ubiquity, the Instagram-generation enthusiasts who are already accustomed to a single angle of view on their phones, may seek such a product to improve their growing interest in image quality. The fact that Fujifilm appears to show some success in this arena and is able to churn out competitors from well-known brands makes this a viable market to engage in. Why buy an interchangeable lens system if you don’t need interchangeable lenses?
Cameras like the Fuji X100/S and Sony RX1 are not designed for people “that wouldn’t care to buy additional lenses in the first place.” They are backup, secondary or tertiary cameras for advanced users who already own a camera system with lenses. The fixed 35mm focal length equivalent in a reasonably compact form serves the purposes of photojournalism, documentary, street and travel photography well. Of course, there are some users for whom a fixed lens camera like the X100/S could be all they ever need. I’ve been wondering whether I am one of these type of users. But then I figured that I would miss the ability to go wide (15-24mm equiv.) or longer (85-100mm equiv.) So an X100/S type camera would be my primary or secondary, but I would still have an ILC with 3 lenses or thereabouts.
I’m sure there are many who own a premium compact only and don’t use it as their “backup” camera. That said, I think the jury’s still out on who these cameras were designed for. Regardless of its intent, they fulfill the needs of many as their only camera. If Panny can find success in this then it can only help m43 in the long run.
No wheel needed: put GH3 sensor in LX3 body, make zoom with similar range and apertures ( yes, it’s going to be large(ish)… ), make LCD articulated, add EVF and you’ve got a winner.
Nobody from Panasonic is listening? Never mind, I got used to that…
LX7 body and lens, not LX3 :).
If it’s LX7 lens range and aperture (12-45mm f/1.4-2.3), I don’t think that largish is the right word to describe how it would be 😉
Integrated into the body, optimized for the specified distance from the sensor and collapsible, it could be much smaller than the standalone (m)4/3 lens. Just compare Sony RX100 lens with any Nikon 1 zoom.
A 12-45mm f/1.4-2.3 zoom lens for a 4/3″ sensor in an LX7 body. For $399 with a bonus backpack to carry it plus one year’s supply of arthritis cream and migraine tablets. Preorder now for delivery in the year 2050.
Only by the year 2050, you won’t need any camera to take pics, you’ll take them with your bionic eye.
The inventions of air flight and space travel never stopped people from going on foot.
However, I do see your point.
If the rumours about the GF6 specifications are correct there is a lot of room between it and the LX7 to slot in a nice fixed lens camera with a sensor which is larger than the one in the LX7. If Panasonic were to announce such a camera and they get the feature set and the price right I think it would sell well.
My wishes are a lens that starts at 24mm, better image quality than the LX7, manual photo & video controls, built in bounce flash and a touch screen for a touch to focus option. Yes I know, I’ll keep on dreaming 😀
Panasonic at the first place should put everything in the LX7 , a famous series . And that is the highend compact from Lumix .
If Pana want to come out another highend compact , it should aim against the RX1 or X100S otherwise no point or waste of resource in another compact that perform below the models mentioned .
By the way , where is the L style camera everybody is waiting ???
you mean the l style camera YOU and only YOU are waiting for. You ask for it in every post, every time with a new feature, now you want the MCS sensor..
lol — I literally LOLed at that. Spot on. So many people think Panasonic is dumb to not spend millions on a camera that only they and 50 other people would buy. It’s the other way around!
Exactly! And that’s exactly why Panasonic only released 4 Four Thirds lenses… no profit in it.
There is no real need for a highend compact camera with large sensors! Nobody forces a customer to change a lense. You can even buy a E-PM2 and fix a 17mm 1.8 with some glue.
Of course, if you want a rangefinder there has to be a body in that style.
Agreed. The EPM series fits very well into this category already.
As does the GX1, but with superior interface and ergonomics.
Don’t forget the definitely weaker Panasonic sensor and ugly body style!
Sorry, but I must disagree! There is enough demand for small, compact, high end cameras, X100, X100s, X10, X20, Coolpix A, RX1, RX100, Leica X1/X2, etc alike. They do not sell like mass-produced goods (with exception of perhaps RX100 and X100 perhaps), still they win enough enthusiasts.
For people like you it might be winning concept to weld a lense of your choice to a E-PM2/GF6/GX1…
I will create a small exclusive series of such cameras. Hightech welding and you can only remove the lense by destroing the body.
Never ever fear of removable lenses…
most ppl just stick with a crappy kit zoom, it’s better for them to get a high end compact with decent lens and size. not for you? yes. bad idea? no.
There is a difference between your DIY fixed lens camera by “fixing” a prime on a CSC versus a true fixed lens camera with its lens that is matched to its sensor and its sensor to its lens. In the Fuji X100/S and Sony RX1 designs, the lens sits quite deep into the camera body, as close to the sensor as possible, to maximise resolution potential and therefore overall IQ. It’s no suprise that the RX1 and X100/S are at the top of their game for large sensor fixed lens high end compacts, combining top grade sensors with a top grade prime lens. They are uncompromising designs for people who want the best IQ for a single focal length in a reasonably compact camera.
It’s people who constantly compare fixed lens to ILC that miss the point of the fixed lens cameras. “You can’t change lenses” is one of those standard forum/blog comments that well deserves the counter phrase of, “Stating the bloody obvious”.
The only one that sells is the RX100. I don’t understand why everyone is making theses cameras. A camera for purist is not appealing to enough people to ever be successful. General people want at least some zoom.
+1, interchangeable lens cameras are always bulkier, and more expensive if you consider a comparable large aperture lens. LX7 with f1.4-2.3 lens is $299 on sale, how much would it cost if there’s a m43 lens with similar spec? and I don’t believe small lenses are cheaper, m43 lenses are often sold at higher price than similar full frame lenses
OK, I’ll give you that point, but I will then say: they already have the x100s. Why chase a market you have no penetration in right now, instead of solidifying the market you arguably have the lead in, but have competitors nipping at our heels?
I suspect this’ll share a lot of R&D with the GF6 – i.e. FT sensor and the the new Venus engine. Sharing parts will allow Panasonic to keep the price down to be competitive.
Now, if you were going to share parts with your MFT system, why not extend that to the lens too and use one of your optical designs? The obvious candidates are the 14-42PZ and a fixed focal length – 14 or 20 (the 25 being too large).
To someone upgrading from a more basic P&S, the zoom range of a 14-42 is unlikely to look impressive against the competition (I doubt these buyers look at sensor size, and those that do would probably go Fuji anyway), so a fixed focal length looks more likely to stand out.
So, my ‘prediction’ (wild guesswork) is a MFT-based fixed focal length without EVF/OVF included (but available as add-on), priced much lower than the X100 to a more mainstream crowd. Probably looking very similar to a GF6 (so they can use the same battery and circuit boards in a similar-shaped body).
“So, my ‘prediction’ (wild guesswork) is a MFT-based fixed focal length without EVF/OVF included (but available as add-on), priced much lower than the X100 to a more mainstream crowd. Probably looking very similar to a GF6.”
Please explain the benefits of this design over the GF6.
More compact/faster than comparable lens on GF6 as sensor micro lenses can be designed specifically for the smaller lens design. A leaf type shutter would give us a quiet shutter without the side effects of an electronic shutter and it would also likely avoid the shutter shock issue.
Probably very few actual benefits. Perhaps slightly cheaper (removing lens mount and the motors for sensor cleaning), maybe weathersealing?
But that misses the point. Panny can market this as a fancy-Instagram thingy, adding loads of weird and wacky effects. The same buyers could acheive the same with a GF6, but perhaps wouldn’t consider getting an ILC – even if they never bought more than one lens.
An MFT-based fixed focal is going to be out-specced by models already on the market – but that doesn’t mean Panny can’t make and sell one. The EOS-M is selling and that’s dreadful…
Sell the sizzle not the sausage!
That Fuji is one hell of a good looking camera!
Admin, please stay away from double negations!
(at least until you master the skill of putting together one single sentence without an obvious typo)
Corrected the typos. The spelling checker didn’t work today. And let me know what to change on double negations…
admin,
“until trusted sources cannot confirm this I cannot guarantee that this may be a tactic from Panasonic…”
does not make sense.
Instead, try this: “I cannot guarantee that this isn’t a tactic from Panasonic… until I get confirmation from trusted sources.”
BTW, perhaps Panasonic made a private introduction of the new gear to journalists during which some questions were asked and answered. This could explain the sudden flow of similar info from various sources.
The sentence may be convoluted but you did make sense from it, that is why you can correct it. As a non-native english speaker myself I do see “non-standard” english has its charm sometimes.
the anonymous spelling nazi is back: you may also want to look up a few things not corrected by Spell Checker (even when it’s not broken), like “then vs than”
I don’t know why the pentax is even in the mix. Everyone has a camera like the Pentax MX1. It goes up against the LX7, P7700, G15, S110, XZ2 and maybe the XF100 and X20. It doesn compare to the RX100 the A or the X100s.
+1. Dime a dozen.
I really hope this rumor does not mean that the third camera to be announced by Pany this April is the LX upgrade and not a GX2 with EVF? If the former than I would expect a new model like the RX100 with 1″ sensor. I seriously doubt we will see any fixed zoom lens camera with sensor larger than 1″. A fixed focal length lens in a m4/3 not likely unless best sensor is used.
But I (and I suspect many others) don’t CARE (ore even WANT) Panasonic to equal or best the x100s. If we wanted the x100s, we’d BUY the x100s. No pangs about the system etc, it’s a fixed lens. What we WANT is for them to improve the MFT line. If focusing on taking the x100s at the same time dstracts/takes resources from what it is we really want, that is a BAD thing, not a GOOD thing.
I’m genuinely happy that people whose needs are met by the x100s, have the x100s. But Panasonic would be fools to do what you seem to expect them to do, chase a crowd they don’t even have the attention of right now. They need to focus on keeping & expanding attention of the crowd that they already have the attention of, away from TRUE competitors like the Sony ILC line, and even Olympus MFT.
the Pentax MX-1 is not a high-ed compact in the same category as the X100s or the Coolpix A. is as much of a high compact as the X20, LX7, RX100, etc. but I’m just saying this because it’s not the first time that the MX-1 is put in the same category around here.
“Panasonic is just staring into his beer. A single tear drops into his IPA. He just released the GF5 and has realized it’s a total pain in the ass of a camera and wishes he could go back to the good ol’ days of the GF1.”
Thats why I have a GF1 beneath my 5D mkIII. Cause everything is sh*t from Pana since then.
Once again.. Panasonic’s best option in the compact space is a waterproof camera with a FT sensor. IQ better than RX100 or Nikon 1. Wifi for remote monitoring via tablet/laptop/phone. This product would leverage the legacy of the lx & ts compacts, and would benefit from some of the GH3’s video tech.
weatherproofing on a fixed lens compact with maybe a 2.8 – 3.5 24mm – 50mm focal length equiv would be awesome.
The heck with “weatherproofing”! Release an Oly Tough-like M4/3 body with a fixed 12 to whatever- mm lens.
I’ve had several Oly Tough cameras (TG1 now) and they’re great. Something similar with a M4/3 sensor would be fantastic!
Now this would be interesting. And I would happy with a fixed 28 or 35mm f2.8 lens to go along with it… I am not sure they could do an optical zoom with tough features… But a semi-fast normal-wide would be great!
This is exactly what I want in this segment.
A tough camera with a FT sensor and a 12~40 zoom lens. I’m not sure how bulky a “periscope” design would be, but it would certainly be different.
Solid video capabilities would also be key.
I think a re-invented LC1 would sell like hotcakes if they pay attention to details, add killer software features, keep the rangefinder styling and keep the Leica lens branding.
Its not out of reach.
I still can’t believe how overrated the IQ of the Fuji X-Trans sensor is – there’s a haze over every image. Just compare them with the OMD on DPReview, for example (the text in the centre is almost unreadable!). Also, the random colour array doesn’t eliminate moiré, it just changes the way it occurs – look at the yellow stains on the dollar bill, for example. IMHO, the moiré produced by X-Trans is even more objectionable than usual, and almost certainly much harder to remove (if not impossible).
Fuji applies noise reduction to their raw files, people look at them and pee their pants thinking its an amaaaaazing sensor.
It’s usually not worth replying to such comments because it’s just feeding the one-eyed fantrollboys. But I’ll just make this point.
On-chip NR is not a bad thing at all, if it’s done well. Nikon and Pentax apply image smoothing to their RAWs. Pentax apply it afer ISO 1600; I’m not sure about Nikon. There’s no evidence so far that Fuji does exactly the same thing. NR leads to a fairly visible loss of fine detail which is apparent in Pentax cameras as we go further beyond ISO 1600. But looking at Imaging Resource’s comparometer, the Fuji X-trans retains remarkable detail all the way up to ISO 12,800. Those who say that Fuji “overstates” their ISOs shows they are more interested in technical data and analyses than picture taking. In today’s sensor tech, it doesn’t matter what the measured ISO is: it’s the end result that counts. The original Fuji X100 with a Bayer sensor had a native ISO limit of 1000. The higher ISOs were achieved by “pushing” the sensor to achieve comparable exposure. This is what Fuji does also with the X-Trans sensor. End result is brilliant images and noise handling, retention of fine details and colour rendition even at High ISOs.
Those who are used to oversharpened images from a Bayer sensor, especially m4/3 images, get quite a shock when they first see images from the X-Trans. To them they appear soft and washed out. I understand their reaction. But what they see in image samples posted at places like DPR are images at their default settings, with a baseline rendition that is quite muted and smooth. This is easily changed in-camera or afterwards at RAW development stage and post processing. DPR’s reviewers already stated this several times, but fantrollboys conveniently ignore this to spread their FUD around the internet.
Sure, the X-Trans sensor has problems. But it has enormous potential. X-Trans involves highly complex mathematical instructions in order to create the final image. We have not go to the stage yet where the full potential of X-Trans has been unlocked by the software. These issues can and will be resolved over time with the cooperation of Fuji engineers and the imaging software developers.
Well, fantrollboys aside, the Fuji X system and cameras are attracting and converting proper photographers and professionals who obviously see value and quality in what Fuji are doing. I don’t think they care too much what a bunch of fantrollboys with calculators, barcharts and plotgraphs think about their cameras’ sensors. They are busy making images to make money. And many enthusiasts and hobbyists tired of their current system’s status quo policies are switching over to Fuji or considering it at least. Go to forums like mu-43 (biggest m4/3 forum on the internet) and see the number of OM-D vs X-E1 and m4/3 vs Fuji X posts.
To those who’ve spent too long reading charts and graphs and comparing images at 400% crop, I suggest to get away from places like DPR for just a second if at all possible and go to other photography blogs and forums to get a more balanced view of what’s going on in the photography and digital imaging world. It might do you some good.