While we are waiting to see the next new Olympus and Panasonic MFT cameras we have some news to report:
1) Olympus announced a new Olympus announces Stylus VH-520 (more about it on Dpreview).
2) Canon announced the smallest APS-C DSLR ever made. It is the Canon EOS 100D/Rebel SL1 (Specs at Amazon, Adorama and BHphoto). The camera has one single goal…go against the mirrorless system camera hype 🙂
Don’t know if they will succeed with a camera like that…
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I can’t find the Olympus announcement on the Olympus Australia or Global site yet (but have looked at the DPReview article though). ??
…so this uninspiring camera will sit on the shelf or ecommerce category next to all the Olympus, Lumix, Nex and Fuji mirrorless offerings which currently number 15+ me thinks just by weight of numbers it will be drowned out.
I have no interest in this camera, just the efficiency of Olympus. BTW, it is now showing in our news pages. http://www.olympus.com.au/Latest-News.aspx
Eh. The new Canon SL1 is a pretty bad camera.
Right up there with the “M”!
It is just an intelligent low cost + point & shoot camera concept.
Wonder if it is still a canon sensor????
How did they achieve the hybrid cmos AFII, that we are still waiting for in m43?
Canon closed the video-AF gap. High LCD performance plus optical viewfinder will find its buyers…
It is a kick in the ass of m43…
Guess these are also the specs of a new EOS-M, may be with a faster prozessor.
Where do you find that the AF is competitive to m43.
lets put some lenses on the sl1 and then compare
Compare the size or the picture quality??? It seems with the release of the GH3, the small size advantage of M43 isn’t always an advantage anymore. I just started with m43 and thinking of purchasing the EM5 by year’s end. Now that this is released, I am looking at all options before truly investing all my money into m43. That includes Sony and Fuji as well.
No, it’s the size of the whole system (lens + body) that makes mFT desirable. You’ll still have to use big lenses for this small little SL1. One can only imagine how front heavy it will be. I can’t imagine it’ll be too comfortable to hold either.
Sure, lets compare this Canon and m4/3 with a fast telephoto lens.
Oh wait. There is no fast telephoto in m4/3. Neither prime nor zoom. Oops.
What about the Panasoniv 35-100mm 2,8 = 70-200mm 2,8
Olympus 75mm 1,8 = 150mm 1,8. (the Canon 135mm 2,0^^)
And please compare size and weight with their Canon counterparts…
GH3 and SL1 is a questionable comparison from the very beginning.
I certainly don’t mean to knock on the SL1, but I don’t think that it is meant to be premium, not by any stretch. Probably a very fine SLR for what its meant to be.
Now, if you compare the smallest canon SLR “for size advantage and regardless of class” versus m43, how about against EM5, see if it still stands toe to toe..?
lets compare both.
-Put a comparable lens on the sl1 and the “advantage” is gone
-its a 4 YEAR OLD SENSOR.
-The GH3 is about the same size as the sl1 and has 7 fn buttons. with 3 more on top. How many are on the SL1? none?
-Front and rear dials on the GH3/OMD, how many on the SL1? None?
-100% coverage with .70 magnification on the gh3/omd. Whats the coverage on the SL1? 95% and .85?
wifi? timelapse? live time?
If i make a camera with absolutely no features then yes, i could probably make it ridiculously small
+1
You’re comparing to GH3 that’ll probably cost twice the SL1? And viewfinders? 60/120 fps vs. unlimited, few pixels vs. unlimited, shit dynamic range vs. unlimited, medocre contrast vs. unlimited. Or compare to E-PL5: no viewdinder at all and shit ergonomics!
SL1 is probably quite a good camera especially thinkin what it will cost after few months (sub €£$500). mFT is for hipsters.
Hmm yes, that OVF looks like a really good tunnel..
Go play on your own fora, canon fanboy.
Well it’s a fact you CAN see detail through an EVF that you CAN’T through an OVF when it’s very dark. The electronic amplification of light lets you see the seen whereas with an OVF you’re blind.
seen=scene ofcourse
I would argue the quality is there. A co-worker retired in January. As a gift, I gave him a 16inchX20inch framed print of St. Louis Cathedral that I had taken with my E-P1. People in the office know I am into photography and commented that I used an expensive pro camera to take the shot. Even another photo buff was surprised when I explained which camera I used. 16×20 is a nice sized print and to see people react that way was gratifying, not because of what I used but because they thought it was nice high quality picture. You can pixel peep and put it under a microscope, but that’s not the real world. And I have a couple bigger prints that I have taken with that camera that received some gentle comments as well. My E-PL5 is even better.
LOLOLOL? Sure!!
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/839%7C0/(brand)/Olympus/(appareil2)/813%7C0/(brand2)/Canon
I’m sorry, but Canon’s sensor are 3 years old. From like back in year 2000 or earlier.
Keep dreaming, but m4/3 sensor trounces canon’s apsc sensor.
Nikon’s the benchmark you want to look at kid.
the shift in marketing is interesting on it’s own. Old Canon rant; 4:3 and mirrorless cameras, we don’t believe they exist, they are not relevant … then the eosm and now eos 100D. But they tend to cripple anything non DSLR/top of the line in the fear they will have other types of cameras compare to their own marque models.
A cheap bottom-end ef mount body may be interesting for other uses?
Canon make a mistake on this one .
That smallest DSLR camera is not particularly good looking & very unlikely to success .
I don’t see Canan can steal from the super 4 ( Pana , Oly , Fuji & Sony ) which proven too brilliant to challenge.
It only make sense for me , Canon’s smallest DSLR is to compete against Pana’s G7 which is the most lowest rating in G series compare with GF , GH & GX or maybe GL .
Why not? I think the AF will be better then AF of E-M5, etc.
G series – lowest rating? Why?! Who rated it so low? 😀
Canon SL1 size comparison
vs GH3: http://camerasize.com/compare/#448,381
vs GH2: http://camerasize.com/compare/#448,166
vs OM-D: http://camerasize.com/compare/#448,289
Thanks for that link.
with lenses:
Kit-zoom: http://j.mp/11mR5bd
45-50mm prime: http://j.mp/11mRH0K
70-300mm zoom: http://j.mp/11mRQB7
I’m actually surprised that the difference between the two with the 70-300mm lens isn’t much much bigger. The Canon lens is half a stop faster yet its only 27mm longer.
And the Canon lens has to cover a sensor that is 1.8 times larger.
But 627g heavier. Damn. You can always find an extra 27mm room in a bag. But adding an extra few hundred grams here and there adds up a lot.
Ever heard of the saying, “the straw that breaks the camel’s back” ? This is something a lot of DSLR users don’t quite understand yet when it comes to the mentality and motivation of mirrorless ILC users. It’s not just the volume and apparent size. As I mentioned, you can always find a bit of extra dimensional space; no problem. But weight becomes the issue once you start accumulating and wanting to carry several pieces of gear.
I backpack a lot and have no problem dealing with heavy weight if I need to. No back or spinal problems yet. But I’m also thinking of my future. When I get old, I do not want to have to deal with back and spinal injuries from years of carrying all that heavy gear. Call it preventative measures. I value being able to walk and run and go places on foot. Mirrorless, especially m4/3, allows me to have good quality in a lightweight package.
The weight difference is due to build quality.
If you want the same build quality as the Olympus 75-300, you can pick up the Sigma 70-300mm. Its still half a stop faster than the Olympus and is only 187 grams heavier and only 1cm longer.
Sure, and that’s part of the compromise, that users take into account, when choosing a lighter weight system. You can always go up and up in quality and pay a lot more for everything, but there is a point of, “good enough for what I want to achieve.” And, as I said before, what one person regards as not much added weight, to someone else might be significant when one adds up the total weight of the gear to take travelling or out in the field.
That comparison is to the heavy, expensive but high quality L version. It would be more fair to compare the Olympus to the consumer 70-300 at http://j.mp/13hLh86 .
If the Canon SL1 had more controls and a better sensor I would consider buying it since I am more concerned about weight than size. There is no reason a future camera could not have both. But with the current sensor and lack of controls I will not be buying the SL1.
But it covers only approx half the EFL – Oly 600mm vs Canon 320mm.
I think you made a math error. 300 * 1.6 = 480, not 320
vs E-PL5 http://camerasize.com/compare/#448,382
Canon did a nice job shrinking it down.
But there is no avoiding the big bits that go on the front. Even without them there is a considerable size difference here.
The one on the left is ugly. Should be in the ugly competition. Problem is it won’t work without a big lump of glass and plastic on the front. That kills the body size somewhat.
Note the Canon Amazon ad says that the cdaf is more accurate. Never heard that from anyone except a m43 owner before.
thats crazy…the Canon is signifcantly smaller than GH3
Well, the GH3 is big. When released, it’s already been compared to Canon DSLR in size. Being bigger than the 100D is thus not surprising at all.
BTW, looking at Canon’s old portfolio, the Canon EOS IX looks pretty. They should’ve used that design for EOS M, and it even have space for APS sensor’s mirror box.
I don’t think Canon either care about market share with this camera, they are doing it to fill more non-existant gaps and give salesmen another argument for the ancient dSLRs if someone comes in a shop wanting a mirrorless camera. It also shows me they aren’t really taking their own mirrorless camera seriously too.
Unfortunately, too often it’s the salesman (person, if you like) that just presents the two main camera players & also people just think of Canon when buying a camera, see all their friends with a Canon & that’s how they keep selling their stuff. A lot of public aren’t really aware too much of all the other camera manufacturers. Thankfully, not all camera shops are so biased.
“Get the Canon. Get the Canon. Get the Canon. Get the Canon. Get the Canon …”
As I keep saying here. You can go and see what ever you like but will be sold “the camera of the day”. Ask for a pany get shown “the camera of the day”. Go in with a question on an oly get pointed to “the camera of the day”. The camera of the day is only to be replaced by a camera of 135 specs at full $. So what does the general customer purchase “the camera of the day” After all the shop just bought a whole pallet of them dirt cheap and they just gotta be moved.
Now guess what the camera of the day is. Usually a low spec cano or niko or a sell out model. After all can’t be expected to training staff on other products other than “the camera of the day”
Harvey Norman is a good “camera of the day” mob I went to Caringbah to see about my E-m5. After about 10 mins of waiting for the 2 behind the counter to stop their on line conversations I was stared at as if I was swearing when I mentioned E-m5, when she went for her bug spray I left. I went downstairs to JB hi fi pointed to the e-m5 asked if they matched prices. Yes, bought it there and then. Their camera sales lady makes no pretence at being a camera expert but is happy to provide the product asked for. (In fact she showed a lot more interest and knowledge than the ones the floor above)
At least there are those that will sell all cameras & not just ‘the camera of the day’. 😉 For me, online proved to be worthwhile (with DigiDirect & CamBuy). We buy from JB HiFi in Penrith for various things.
So Cambuy and Digidirect get the thumbs up? I like how Digidirect’s website is set up. All the product links are at the bottom, making it easy to find what you want. Still wished local gear prices was better though. For examnple, when are we going to get the Panasonic Leica 25/1.4 for $499 (or close to it) like in the US? It’s anywhere between AU$600-800 locally, depending on which ripoff merchant sells it. Been looking at that lens for ages, but cannot justify the local asking price. BTW I notice Cambuy and Digidirect have the Olympus M.Zuiko 75-300 II available for pre-order, for $539 and $543 respectively. Betters the US price at US$549. ETA March 28, 2013. This lens isn’t on my radar, but thought I’d mention this in case you or other users in Oz were interested.
I do have it on order with CamBuy & Gary there is very helpful & efficient with the service & a nice guy to talk to as well.
“Still wished local gear prices was better though. For examnple, when are we going to get the Panasonic Leica 25/1.4 for $499 (or close to it) like in the US?”
Don’t forget the US price doesn’t include tax. The 75-300 II lens is $549 over there & $599 here. I think that is not a bad starting RRP price, but of course I won’t pay that if some can discount it to start with, but maybe Panasonic is not as competitive here with their pricing as Olympus seems to be now (for some things, but not lens hoods etc.). 😉
Even with taxes added in US, their Panasonic gear would still be less expensive overall than what we pay in Oz. Part of the problem is that Panasonic AU, like Mazda AU, consider themselves a premium brand, and by their justification, offer very little discounting. It works though, for Mazda anyway, as they have topped the sales rankings in recent years with cars like the Mazda 3 and CX5. Why discount when demand is sky high and people are willing to pay full price? Panasonic AU, however, needs to improve their marketing and product strategy if they are to gain a foothold and remain viable in the already small ILC market in Oz in the longterm. I noticed they are losing display space to other brands in certain stores. Whether they notice or care enough to do something about it is another matter though.
A baby dinosaur is still a dinosaur.
Ha, that sums it up perfectly.
Having said that, I think Canon will sell a lot of these. Especially to those who already have a lens collection.
The average owner of this sort of canon does not have a collection of lenses. It will be sold as “the camera of the day” Unless the margin is higher on another model.
+1,
555
What exactly does any of this have to do with m43 again? It’s just a matter of time before we rock up here only to be inundated with posts for steak knife sets and abdominal toning products.
It is a point of discusion for how it might affect the mirrorless & more specifically, the micro 4/3’s share of the market etc. & also we like to ‘knock’ Canon a little (take the Mickey or the p*ss out of them), just because we can. 😉 😀
Ross, I’d be right with you if the links for the Canon were to DPR’s preview, rather than B&H, Amazon and Adorama.
For sure Ross, and I’d be right with you, if only the ‘info’ link provided for the Canon was to DPR’s preview, rather than to B&H, Amazon and Adorama.
canon can afford to carry some less successful models. this is just a stepping stone camera. they don’t need it to be a hot seller or anything. it’s just shoring up their entry level bottom end.
if the customer is saying they want smaller or cheaper, they can pull this out, say it’s same size as m43, is cheaper than the OMD and GH3, and yet has a bigger sensor, a better range of good cheap lenses … and if the customer ever decides they want to upgrade to something bigger and better, all their lenses will work on the big versions of the canon range.
seems to me m43 should treat this carefully. plus NEX is starting to get some decent lenses, and Fuji is getting better performance from their bodies. OMD and GH are the only stand outs for m43. the rest could vanish overnight without registering a blip. and if Olympus do to the OMD what they did to the PEN, it will fall behind the competition by end of this year.
So $700 f/1.8 primes, $1300 f/2.8 zooms, $100 lens hoods, $200 extra for a black lens, $1000 for the E-P5 with no view finder…. these numbers are all looking a bit high for a system that has, at the end of the day, a smaller sensor.
I tend to agree
Is this the pathetic chicken from the other thread :))? If yes then it is funny to see you talk to yourself :)).
The nex still has a very very sad lens line. i agree that premium for hoods and colors is beyond stupid, but the price for the 2.8 weather sealed zooms is ok when scaled to the full frame models. The 900$ primes are a bit much, especially the 12mm f2, but all around m4/3s is a long way from dying.
The NEX system is ideal for adapting manual lenses. Except for the Zeiss 24mm, the few native NEX lenses available are pretty unappealing.
I am sure Canon will succeed only if they can come out with a series of compact / pancake lenses to go with the camera
I use the tiny Canon 40mm lens with my 5d which makes the size manageable. With the SL1 it could become my daily walk around kit. I currently use the E-PL5 for always in my bag. It’s all horses for courses – I use a lot of old Canon FD lenses with my E-PL5 because the zoom in for manual focusing is brilliant.
It’s actually a good marketing strategy by Canon. We the m43 users are the minorities and canon has the lion share of the DSLR market.In one way it could discourage the Canon users from moving to another smaller 2nd systems since they already have all the required Canon mount lenses. Secondly, it also appeal to the majority of the new buyers want a smaller systems but who don’t do any research. In their mind Canon would be the safest choice.
Some years back, I shot Canon and had the 350D,400D. They were sort of uncomfortable to hold with just the 35 2.0, but with the 35L and 24L, they really sucked. I can’t imagine a smaller rebel being better, the grip is still too narrow. They need to put something wide on there, at least like the Sony Nex or Ricoh GX. Some of these companies just don’t seem to think things through very well. I’m amazed that people buy their products anyway.
You just described all of Olympus m4/3 cameras
Admin.
We have lost the reply linkage again.
Smallest Canon? Body only, sorry. Lenses sizes must be taken into account. LOL Only if can they make lenses as small as m4/3, I would switch their APS system.
The camera+lens package still a bit big for me, but I only use standard zoom and primes… From a price/performance point of view including quality lenses it trounces the mirrorless competition. IMHO mirrorless lenses are way over priced, but I love the size of mft lenses…
I have read the comments on a German Canon User Forum. A lot of people are getting very excited about that camera. They say that it would give them what all these CSC couldn’t give them. Unfortunately I did not get what they had in mind.
OVF
You mean the light at the end of the tunnel? Because this OVF can hardly be like anything else.. 😀
The best feature of EOS SL1 is the preasure on market and coming price drop of E-M5!
Yep – this new Canon is just tiny! http://camerasize.com/compact/#347.336,448.286,ha,t
if i replace 14-42m len ,boo no comment
canon user knew about power zoom/internal zoom ???
Umm, that is a full frame lens. A better equivalent to the Panasonic 12-35 is the Sigma 17-50 f/2.8
But of course, if you add that one, you cannot exaggerate the difference. Boo-hoo.
… which is still a lot bigger and almost double the weight of the Panasonic.
Bigger but faster.
…and half the price
Just another boring pointandshoot!
Rebel name = 0% credibility
This new Canon can achieve a good result if Canon develop a new pancake zoom(like Pana 14-42x, or Sony 16-50).
It’s a super-amateur camera with no interesting points for anyone who buy a E-m5, a Gh3, a Nex7 or a Fuji.
A mediocre OVF is not better than a really good EVF, Sl1 lack of controls and at this point, the latest m4/3 sensor aren’t so inferior to the Canon Aps-c(and Fuji/Sony Aps-c are probably better).
Sl1 can be a good advantage in terms of AF, limited to continuos and single in bad light conditions, in good light E-m5 is more than adequate.
I won’t change my E-m5 for this new Canon, but in Europe(where Slr’s are still the untouchable Queens on the market)a small capable DSLR, with a pancake zoom, can be very dangerous to entry-level mirrorless.
Yep. Half a year later everybody here will be whining about how this camera outsells everything m4/3 and how all other consumers are stupid.
Sales are only one part of the story. Most sales of lower tier EOS Rebel cameras are from the Walmart shopping consumer masses. Conversely, many products remain viable and their companies survive without huge numbers of sales. Many people feel insecure if they are not in the majority. That’s understandable. While others really don’t care if there’s only 100,000 other users worldwide of their camera or system as opposed to 1,000,000. It works for them, and as long as the company is viable and keeps making those products, that’s all that matters to those users and to the company.
Many pro photographers have adopted and incorporated m4/3 gear into their professional work. While it may not be universal, the fact is that many pros see benefits to the system and see very little lacking with cameras like the OM-D E-M5 and Lumix DMC-GH3 as far as IQ and usability goes for many of the types of photography they do. And as many of them who are well known are using m4/3, there are many more unknown who are also. If pros are using m4/3 gear to help in making a living for themselves, then m4/3 must be doing something right. Small, crap sensor, overpriced, overhyped, dumb amateur system that it is.
I agree with this. Some noobs at dpreview compared the two cameras with regard to size alone and said that size is the main aka only true M43 advantage. Truth is, those who buy into m43 and specially OMD5 and GH3 expect and know what they are getting. Higher spec (IBIS, weather sealed, great movie,…). Those who buy into this 100l1 is more likely starters who don’t give a damn about the coverage of the OVF or the fn button. It is easy to make a small camera but how to make them packed with feature is another story. And yes, let face it, this thing will be another homerun for Canon. After all we are not the target customers of Canon.
To be brutal size is the only major advantage of mFT , at the price of the E-M5 and GH3 ( here in the Uk ) there are no cameras that do not have weather-sealing and the newer DSLR models even the lower end options like the D5200 offer pretty good video. Regarding image quality alone the D5100 ( £300) and 85mm F1.8 ( (£369) will easily match the best mFT sensor with 75mm on board. in fact you get the same DoF at F1.8 on Nikon aps as you would on an mFT at F1.2 .
The real winning factor for mFT is its excellent size to performance ratio, it certainly isn’t the best for AF performance , it isn’t the best for resolution,it isn’t the best for DR , it isn’t the best for DOF control, it isn’t the best at high ISO it doesn’t have the best selection of native AF lenses . What it has is very decent image quality with a good sprinkle of decent fast lenses with one or two gems , all at a size that makes for a much lighter camera bag.Those deluding themselves that it is anything more are dreaming.
Lol I know it is not everything and I never claimed it to be so.
On a macro scale (taken all bodies and lens of the photography universe), the only advantage that MFT has is size. Yet at the micro level, which is what I am trying to compare here between the two cameras, 100L simply does not have the features that make s EM5 stand out. I am not comparing all the other $1000+ cameras around.
May be I was wrong to state “M43” instead of EM5/GH3 and sound like fan boy but you got my point now. With regard to your point about DOF, I don’t think you can apply that to everyone. I like the additional DOF that M43 gives me. Easier to capture stuff at night. With regard to your claim about D5100 + 85 1.8 beats Em5/Gh3 + 75 1.8, I don’t believe that to be the case based on the review. And don’t throw that price comparison around, 75 1.8 is a new lens while that 85 1.8 has been around forever. Then you went on to compare things that can take good videos and things that are weather sealed, but can you point out one that has both to be compared to EM5? IBIS may be overrated but for movie, specially for manual lens it is top notch.
On a side note, I have been to UK and your camera prices are brutal.
I’m really getting very confused!!! Panasonic “growing” their G line, Canon downsizing their DSLRs… somtething is wrong with one of them or both.
Not really, both trying to cover a bigger part of the market, but coming from totally different starting points.
Inconvenient small design, yet with big lenses. Fortunately it has a Canon label on it so it will sell well…
Canon will confuse their buyers with this one. Too much choice that will make people think about which camera is best.
This looks like an attempt by Canon to stop their existing customers from deserting to another brand to get a more useful size. What they have left out are the range of smaller lenses to make the whole system smaller and easier to carry. And I wouldn’t hold my breath for Canon to make a great range of compact APSC lenses. They have had years producing APSC cameras and still their compact lens options can be counted on one hand, or is that one finger… I know which finger I would offer up to Canon.