It’s done! After months of speculations the Olympus and Sony deal has been officially announced. Wall Street Journal reports: “Olympus said Friday it will raise ¥49 billion ($631.6 million) by issuing new shares to Sony Corp. With the capital tie-up, Sony will effectively become Olympus’s biggest shareholder, with a stake of 11.5% in terms of voting rights. The two companies also plan by the end of December to set up a joint venture to develop medical devices and to study collaboration in compact digital cameras.”
The last sentence is what we care about most: “collaboration in compact digital cameras“. I guess both will keep staying and competing with their own systems and share the sensor, oled and lens technology.
UPDATE: Engadget reports: “The deal also includes a component-sharing agreement in the photography space, with Olympus mirror cells and camera lenses being given to Sony, while image sensors (where Sony is very strong) will go the other way.”
UPDATE_2: Here you can download the offical press release text (.pdf).
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“The deal also includes a component-sharing agreement in the photography space, with Olympus mirror cells and camera lenses being given to Sony, while image sensors (where Sony is very strong) will go the other way.”
http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/28/sony-olympus-rescue/
Also, “We are aggressively pursuing the growth of our medical business, with the aim of developing it into a key pillar of our overall business portfolio,” Sony’s Chief Executive Kazuo Hirai said in a statement on Friday.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/sony-to-invest-645-mn-in-scandal-hit-olympus-become-top-shareholder/articleshow/16587318.cms
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Perhaps Sony only wants Olympus’ medical gear, and Olympus wants Sony’s sensors. Sony might not want Olympus’ lenses. The impact on M43 would be a better sensor. All speculation, of course.
for Sony and Olympus- good news I think all around (medical,camera,video, telescopes/binoculars, audio….)
for Panasonic – not so good news but they are now firmly established in the mirrorless market so it may drive them harder
for the 2 big DSLR companies (their names escape me)- ouch!
maybe Olympus will start designing optics for Sony mounts
maybe Sony will bring out mft bodies
it will be interesting to see forthcoming Olympus technologies and they technologies that Sony and Olympus will jointly work on…
The only common camera area is compact cameras & Olympus (I believe) have been using Sony sensors in (some) compact cameras for some time anyhow. I’m happy to be corrected on that.
@Ross
Binoculars are current shared segments as well as cameras, the rest could be future was my thinking…..
Both companies work in audio recorders/PCM recorders.
Aside from what Olympus will receive from Sony, does it mean, Sony camera division will also incoperate 5-axis IS in near future too? (wonder)
What will Panasonic do?
For users – very good news.
In one system – wide range of choice.
At least 2 producers of sensors (Panasonic & Sony) – competition.
At least 2 producers of bodies (Panasonic & Olympus) – competition & complemention one another, maybe some specialize bodies (small, universal, resistant, for movies…).
At lest 2 serious producers of dedicated lenses with AF (Panasonic & Olympus) and small support of other (Voigtlander, Samyang…) – competition & complementation one another.
3 big companies (Panasonic, Sony & Olympus) with own know-how, technologies – in one system.
Good for Olympus, I guess. But Sony is literally taking over more and more on the market. At least there are some more producers of wafers and sensors…
True, but this is because Sony has been delivering top-notch sensors and cameras that – despite its being an electronics giant – appeal also to photography enthusiasts as well as gadget addicts.
If there is one thing Sony is still relative weak at then this would be lens design, I guess that and IS (as well as image processing?) is what Sony has to gain from such a partnership.
I hope that partnering with Sony will be more beneficial to Olympus that it’s cooperation with Panasonic.
Eventually this may mean better products from both companies.
I don’t see this as necessarily indicating that Sony will be taking over more of the camera market. There is nothing in this announcement that indicates Sony will have a controlling interest in Oly’s camera business.
While Oly’s debt problems forced this alliance, I don’t know how fruitful it will be. Sony has been hemorrhaging money and just had their bond rating lowered to BBB, the second lowest investment grade. Thus while there is some reason for optimism the fact remains that this is an alliance of two companies with unhealthy balance sheets.
if some technical inovation from Sony (e.g. sweep panorama) came to Olympus it would be very good!
(for those who don’t want it – don’t use it…)
together they can beat Canikon! a very good strategy.
still think that the m4/3 system has the best format, especially with the build in stabilization (smaler lenses & open for other lenses, e.g. Panasonic. )
That’s why I prefer Olympus over Panasonic.
p.s.:
my favourite lens would be 22-60 in a small body :-).
Bring on the Translucent mirror 4/3rds camera
Pellicle mirrors are fragile and not really user-serviceable, they impact image quality and they zap light. I am not interested in a warmed-up version of mid-’60s technology. I’d rather see a reflex mirror.
Pure FUD
Some FUD. Not pure FUD. Look at the test results. With the same sensors, the NEX versions produce better IQ at the pixel-peep level than SLT.
I don’t want a return to a mirror, but I’ve no interest in SLT. Let’s see if on-sensor PDAF can be improved.
That’s because all NEX cameras have lighter AA filters (which in turn is done to reduce corner issues, directly related to the thickness of all the layers on top of the sensor). The A580 (no beamsplitter) isn’t visibly sharper than the A55 released at the same time.
Ghosting is solved, aberrations reduced to near invisible levels (the beamsplitter does this more effectively than any commercially available product, according to independent lab tests), sharpness in tact. Which leaves the 0.33 to 0.5 EV light “loss”.
How long do you think the pellicle mirror will remain pristine? I also find the loss of light unacceptable.
Absolute agree, transparent mirror give blur too.
I’ve used an Eos RT, and a pellicle mirror is not what I want ever again in any camera.
Are you arguing that pellicle mirrors
1. are not fragile
2. are easy to keep clean
3. are easy to clean
4. can be inexpensively replaced
5. do not zap light
6. do not impact image quality
Now, if you can refute any of the above with actual arguments, good for you. If you can’t, well, you are just in denial or you are clueless. Which is it?
1 show me links to sony users having issues with fragility
2 are sensors easy to keep clean?
3 use a rocket blower
4 $80 shipped part # A1855640A
5 true but so does on sensor PDAF
http://www.sonyuserforum.de/forum/showpost.php?p=1262520&postcount=119 (use google chrome for translation)
In short, the test proves how the permeability is around 72-76% and it has a very “harmonious” distribution. And the light loss is indeed 1/3 EV “only”.
6 again show me links
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU5TqeoqRnQ
“I brought the Alpha series Sony a77 about a few months ago new from a electronic wholeseller in NY. If I look straight into the translucent mirror it looked clear, but once I have the camera in a angle I see a marking on the plastic mirror. I try cleaning it and still remains on the plastic mirror. I think the NY wholeseller played with the camera, since Sony don’t have a seal on the box.
I was going to send for repair in Texas, but I heard the turn around is about a month. So I decided to order the part myself and replace it. The part is A1855640A and it cost me around $80 shipped. It took a week to get here from Fedex ground. The replacement took less than a minute to get it back to new again. I love this camera.
This video was shot on my Panasonic Lumix lx-5
Thanks to Carl Tr, it’s the same model number for the a65.”
This isn’t 1966
Things have changed
🙂
1 show me links to sony users having issues with fragility
Any mirror coating is fragile by its nature. The thinner the coating, the more fragile the coating. You can’t prevent haze from affecting the mirror surface, even if you manage to keep the dust off.
2 are sensors easy to keep clean?
You mean AA filters? Yes, I’ve done it repeatedly without any issues.
3 use a rocket blower
Doesn’t work for haze. Besides, the Rocket Blower just moves dust around.
4 $80 shipped part # A1855640A
Not too bad. Imagine what the camer costs if you build one from purchased spare parts! But seriously, do you have a “clean room” where you can R&R the mirror without getting dust on the backside of the filter and on the sensor?
5 true but so does on sensor PDAF
How many sensels are used for PDAF? How much light is lost?
http://www.sonyuserforum.de/forum/showpost.php?p=1262520&postcount=119 (use google chrome for translation)
In short, the test proves how the permeability is around 72-76% and it has a very “harmonious” distribution. And the light loss is indeed 1/3 EV “only”.
33% is a lot.
6 again show me links
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU5TqeoqRnQ
“I brought the Alpha series Sony a77 about a few months ago new from a electronic wholeseller in NY. If I look straight into the translucent mirror it looked clear, but once I have the camera in a angle I see a marking on the plastic mirror. I try cleaning it and still remains on the plastic mirror. I think the NY wholeseller played with the camera, since Sony don’t have a seal on the box.
I was going to send for repair in Texas, but I heard the turn around is about a month. So I decided to order the part myself and replace it. The part is A1855640A and it cost me around $80 shipped. It took a week to get here from Fedex ground. The replacement took less than a minute to get it back to new again. I love this camera.
This video was shot on my Panasonic Lumix lx-5
Thanks to Carl Tr, it’s the same model number for the a65.”
Turn-around is a month? Is everybody getting their mirror cleaned or replaced? 😛
This isn’t 1966
Things have changed
Not everyhing has changed. The Canon RT is from the mid-’90s, not the ’60s. The inherent problems with an easily contaminated mirror that stays during exposure in the optical path remain. Whether or not you accpet the trade-off of this technology is up to you. I don’t want it.
PS: I wish html tags would work here. Can we use some other kinds of italic and bold etc tags?
The future won’t be as easy as it was all the years before for Canon and Nikon. For us consumers it’s great – more competition.
@ the Eye thats all Sony uses Sony dosen’t sell an SLR of any type .
Good for Sony and good for Oly: Sony will be able to develop better band smaller lenses – their weak side. Oly have secured access to state-of-the-art sensors.
The risk for m43 is that the Sony offering will be strengthened. On the other hand Oly has 5axis IS. What does Pana have? Sony and Fuji has larger sensors.
There is a risk for m43 future in this, but competition hopefully leads to innovation.
Great news, look forward to shared tech across both brands.
Ok. I think this is good.
Now go and make E-P5 with Oled evf, 5 axis iBIS, IS preview while shooting, sony sensor, focus peaking!
I could live with a slightly larger body and no flash!:-):-)
Imagine Sony’s NEX and Alpha range of cameras get Zuiko lens. What would Olympus’ m4/3’s competitive edge be? Compact Digital Camera?
If Olympus lends Sony a hand in tweaking its sensor to produce Olympus signature color in Sony NEX and Alpha cameras. With APS-C Zuiko lens, in a compact body, and APS-C sensor that is as good as Canikon FF image quality, would you still buy m4/3?
I can see the brand Sony Olympus appearing very soon. Just like Sony Minolta previously.
Sony has acquired Minolta in full but only holds 10% share of Olympus.
That, and the fact that Sony is now well established as a leading camera maker (more so than Olympus…) – as opposed to when Minolta was taken over – lmakes me doubt we will see a new brand emerging.
Sony does not another monicker to be gain market recognition, it has already done so.
I think that would be 11.4%
Sony are not a more established/known maker of cameras than Olympus, not by a long shot.
Sure, this is obviously true because you happen to think so.
And because he is correct.
Olympus have been making cameras for decades – Pen and OM series and others.
Show me 10 Sony 35mm cameras. The only long term camera expertise Sony has is in broadcast video.
I think Olympus already incorporate some feature of Sony tech in their camera like sensor and flipping LCD in EPL-5 I hope soon they also included the focus peaking, image merging, etc. Perhaps Sony will also benefited with lens design from Olympus for their NEX series.
Ah, I guess you woke up from your coma after 2006.
Because Olympus came out with the E-330 januari 2006 it had the flippy screen already!
And if you wanna know it’s Sony who COPIED the hybrid technique from Olympus, but Sony developped it afterwards. Still Olympus was there first.
Ehm… Olympus used flip LCD since E-330 already.
Ah you beat me to it. Completely correct.
Earlier than that even, E-330 was introduced in January 2006, while as early as late 2002 saw the introduction of the C-5050 with a fully tiltable screen, this was closely followed in Sepetember 2003 by the C-506o which had a fully articulated screen (strangely, above the camera), these innovations were well before anyone else had them, Olympus are the true innovators in modern photography.
+1
I’ll correct myself here, The E-10 introduced in 2000 had a tilting screen.
I love the c7070 flip twist lcd which is inherited from the c5050. It makes the best sense for waist level shooting. Even in portrait its pretty nifty. And E3 is probably the first DSLR to have a flip and twist screen too.
I think you will find the C-5050 only had a flip/tilt screen, the twist facility was introduced with the C-5060 which I still use fairly regularly with more than satisfactory results, accepting it’s sensor size.
Wow, what a day! First Hamilton to Mercedes and Schumacher out of F1 and now this.
So, Olympus lenses to Sony and Sony sensors to Olympus.
Good news:
-Sony has no problem in maintaining and marketing several different camera systems, so I don’t expect Oly m4/3 to fold
-Sony translucent adapter and/or PDAF on sensor could be the answers to 4/3 lenses working on m4/3 bodies properly
-S&O could make NEX-m4/3 and m4/3-NEX adapters, so lenses from one system could be used in another
-Sony could enable full functionality of m4/3 lenses on future FF NEX – in crop mode
-Olympus could finally put focus peaking, HDR, HHT and intelligent panorama in their bodies
-Olympus could join Sony’s app system and make cameras that could use the same apps as new NEX-es
-Sony could put IBIS in some of their bodies
-various addons ( VFs, flashes ) could be made compatible with the other system
-Olympus could make a m4/3 camera based on NEX body, similar to what Hasselblad did. Maybe E-P5 will be based on NEX-6?
Bad news:
-Panasonic might feel threatened by this cooperation and thus pull out or stop making lenses that are compatible with Oly bodies ( and vice versa )
-Olympus could switch to NEX and leave its users in the cold ( again )
-Olympus could be restricted from making certain products that could compete with Sony’s
The possibilities are endless, but I guess the cooperation will be similar to the one Olympus had ( or still has ) with Panasonic.
> -Olympus could switch to NEX and leave its users in the cold (again)
OK, switch to NEX would be bad.
But I think if Oly would start also producing lenses for NEX, there NEX users would flood streets celebrating.
The thing is, it is makes sense for Oly to produce NEX lenses. It is an open niche. I can only presume that marketing, politics and limited capacities prevent them from doing it already.
Good summation!
The idea of a multi-mount NEX FF sounds intriguing.
I guess on the next iteration of the E-M5, we can expect to see a sensor from Sony that has the phase-detection built into the sensor?
Maybe this is how Oly will solve the FT lens problem.
“-Olympus could be restricted from making certain products that could compete with Sony’s”
Sony will be largest shareholder but not majority shareholder, so on it’s own Sony wouldn’t be able to restrict Olympus from anything.
Panasonic is not a shareholder, but P&O have tried very hard not do make the same products in m4/3. Everything can be agreed through contracts…
Sony will occupy just one seat on the board of directors of Olympus.
> The last sentence is what we care about most: “collaboration in compact digital cameras“. I guess both will keep staying and competing with their own systems and share the sensor, oled and lens technology.
… I’m just crossing the fingers that Panasonic would remain with the m43. S&O might be too much for them (in current financial climate) to compete with.
Would this mean Sony trolls and Oly fanboys will not have to argue here anymore? 😉
Yeah, like Oly trolls and Pana fanboys do not argue here… There’s even 4/3 vs m4/3 discussions.
People don’t understand it’s all going to end in one beautiful system – NEX4/3 ;). And with lots of money in pockets of managers of all three companies.
No. they still will arguing sensor size and lens size… 🙂
I agree with milez : the Nex’s weakness is the lenses’ quality.
If they came out with some Zuiko like lenses, the M43 will be dead because with the same sensor technology for M43 and for APS C, the bigger will always be the better.
They have a pro compact with 1′ sensor to compete against Nikon 1, NEX with a great marketshare… Why bother with M43 ? Olympus’ cameras lose money anyway so just focus on medical and Sony will focus on camera.
Not a great news for M43 and Panasonic.
(Even if right now I’m happy with my Oly EM5 and its sensor from Sony)
APS and 4/3 have a different aspect ratio (1,5:1 and 1,3:1, respectively). If you crop an APS sensor to a 4/3 ratio, the size difference is not that big (a 4/3 sensor would be 74% of the cropped APS sensor, it becomes 60% only if you do not take into account the difference in aspect ratio), in fact it would be less than the difference between an 1/1,7 sensor and an 1/2,3 sensor. The difference in the (effective) size of lenses, on the other hand, is – so far – significant, even more so in the telephoto range (a 300mm lens is bound to be smaller and lighter than a 400 mm lens). The true advantage of APS sensors is that the aspect ratio is closer to the golden mean (1:1,61). An 1″ sensor, on the other hand is half the size of a 4/3 sensor (a significant difference) and a FF sensor is almost 4 times the size of a 4/3 sensor and almost three times the size of an APS sensor (a huge difference). I think that the battle between APS and 4/3 will be won or lost on points other than IQ. The real wild card, for me, is the future of 1″ sensors. If you can get good enough IQ from 1″ sensors, those who value pocketability more will swing that way, while those who want the last ounce of IQ, without the size and cost of FF systems, will go APS. If, on the other hand 1″ ILCs do not deliver on pocketability, 4/3 has a better chance of winning over both the 1″ and the APS formats.
When has this kind of “interlocking directorate” EVER been beneficial to the consumer?
Sony doesn’t need Olympus lenses; they can invoke the name of Carl Zeiss whenever they want a “prestige” optic. They want to get their fingers into the medical-device pie, but they have no reason to want to get involved in Olympus’ camera business except to discourage competition. I predict their role will be to pressure Olympus to stick to the low end of the market (more Toughs and Stylii) and leave the high end to Sony products.
Yeah, but Olympus can make something with the same high-quality for half the price. That sure makes a difference. But as I said below, that’s not their focus right now, Oly lenses on Sony’s body won’t happen very soon.
High end cameras are lower volume, and lower profits, than low-end Toughs and Stylii. If Sony has any power in the relationship, they will try to get Oly to abandon the high-profit market for low-end cameras.
Wrong. High-end cameras may be lower volume, but they are WAY larger profit-makers. That is why Panasonic is now pushing the whole pro theme with the GH3.
Oly go to NEX sytem(camera+lens),and new brand incoming M43.
goodbye olympus. ^^
What about an A99 Sony 135 with a few Oly special bits built in and a real OM lens mount.
Oly needs some good video implementation. Maybe Sony will allow unlike Panasonic.
Hello Oly don’t forget PAL. Firmware update please!!!
Where did you get that Panasonic hides things from Olympus? The same way Olympus could share their engine, which is way better than Panasonic and that doesn’t happen as well. They are partners and competitors, that’s not how business happen. If they share everything, there is no reason to have Panasonic AND Olympus camera since they will be exactly the same on the inside.
Looks like this collaboration will focus on P&S cameras for cost savings.
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/photo-news/539186/sony-and-olympus-join-forces-on-cameras-in-400m-deal-update-1-50pm
‘We will study the concrete possibility, for point-and-shoot cameras, that Olympus will supply camera lenses and lens barrels to Sony and that Sony will supply image sensors to Olympus.’
Sony already supplies P&S image sensors to Olympus.
I think that initially there will be no lenses from Olympus to Sony. The primary objective are medial technology from Olympus and sensor from Sony.
Why do I say that? Because if Olympus is doing this because of financial matters, it makes no sense at all to start things that will make you spend a lot of money, like lenses development.
Can that happen someday? Yes, sure, but not now. People are thinking too big, this is certainly not such a situation. They will focus on what really matter and after that, who knows.
I doubt that anything different from medical stuff and sensor will happen within 1~2 years.
Its takes time to develop lenses, it’ll be 2-3 years before we see anything – if ever. M43 lesnes can’t cover the Nex sensor so it would have to be new designs. I think most of the impact will be P&S cameras, Olympus will likely switch to Sony sensors across the board, while retaining the Truepic processor. Its win-win for both as Olympus can get access to the best sensor tech and Sony gets a boost in sensor sales.
Hopefully Olympus’ JPEG tech will make its way into Sony cameras and Sony’s video expertise will help Olympus boost the video capabilities in the OMD/Pen lines.
So long as the Olympus camera brand and their m4/3 range continues, and I think it will with Sony having 11.5%, this will be a good thing.
My guess is they share in (mostly) positive ways, but don’t see Oly switching formats or the demise of m43 or NEX or whatever. There is room in the market for several formats and styles. That has always been the case in photography, b/c there is a wide distribution of styles, tastes, objectives,…
and neither of them can design a menu system
actually , many core things are lost in translation. but basically,Engadget is reporting correct.
but most of deal is about medical division and establishing of a new medical company.
“Compact Digital Cameras” doesn’t say mirrorless to me, at least not mirrorless system cameras. I read this as P&S cameras, nothing more.
But that wouldn’t drive eyeballs to this site like the overwrought headline does, would it?
Yes, I agree. The P&S sharing makes sense due to the shrinking market and lower margins. It looks more like a cost savings measure.
If the technology sharing is no holds barred, it’ll definitely give the 2 big boys a run for their money. Olympus has been known to make important photographic features all across their range not like the others who prefers crippling their lower range.
I would love to have an E720 with the E-M5 sensor over an E7. Lens fine focus adjustments, lighted buttons, IBIS, Mirror lock-up in drive mode all included. Let hope focus peaking will find its way into olympus future cams.
Also not to forget, XZ-3 with the RX100 sensor would be nice
Well, we’ve already seen the positive effects of Sony technology (sensors) on Olympus’s latest cameras. Won’t a lot of Alpha and NEX owners be happy if and when a lot of Olympus lenses begin showing up in their native mounts?
Some believe Sony doesn’t need Olympus lenses – that they already have Zeiss. Perhaps. But I don’t see a whole lot of CZ glass in either mount – and there are still gaping holes in Sony’s lens lineup.
This is a win-win situation and will force Panasonic to up their game on the micro four-thirds side.
So long as Olympus’ lenses aren’t co-designed for an APS-C sensor, this will be a good thing!
Hope Sony doesn’t learn what it needs from Olympus in medical imaging then get aggressive in the market undercutting and taking the market gradually away from Olympus and the rest.
This is a scenario I don’t think is likely but not impossible either.
Olympus designing lenses for Sony? If this happens it’ll be a while until this pans out and I think Olympus may or may not be making nex lenses based on m4/3 designs and if so it means these will be physically larger due to imaging circle and m4/3 still has the lighter and smaller advantage
Without too much loss in iq.
I’m excited about the prospect of an OM-D Pro which phase detects what 4/3 lenses I will have left that’s weather sealed, fast etc and an Olympus one inch sensor xz-3!!!
From what I’ve seen I think I prefer the colour Olympus produces with a Panasonic sensor but I’m absolutely sick and tired of the Panasonic noisy 12mp crappy sensor thing! What am I talking about? Shadow noise DR, and DR in general is a bit flat but Sony sensors are DR monsters that also are capable of great high ISO performance.
If you expose an e5 or ep3 well it’s a lot better but that doesn’t change the fact that these cameras have sensors that aren’t ideal in shadow areas.
If Oympus can tweak the colour a bit more to look a little more like it use to they’ll have a perfect combination with Sony sensors. OM-D has nice colour, it just looks a little different to what I’ve always perceived their colour to look like. It’s a first attempt with the Sony sensor so it’s an excellent job and they usually get things spot on by 2nd or third version.
Well – I’d prefered a partnership with Fuji as these are the two companies that are read to dare uncommon moves in the camera business. And an X-Trans FT sensor would have been a truly interesting alternative.
But then… what can you do. It’s Sony, now.
As consumer, i don’t feel good, more expensive cameras in on the way !