Video review of the Blackmagic Cinema Camera from Philip Bloom on Vimeo.
The first Micro Four Thirds camera to be announced before the Photokina show is the intriguing Black Magic Cine Camera (specs and preorders up at BHphoto). Philip Bloom posted this well made review I embedded on the post on top. The original article is available on his website: “The good news is with a M43 mount you can put on any lens with easily available adaptors for PL, M, Nikon, Canon. C mount (make sure they cover sensor). It’s a much more flexible camera lens wise and makes more sense than the EF version here.”
—
Something else. Me and my friends form the other rumor websites are surprised about the new Sony RX1 popularity which at least according to Amazon ranking (Click here) is getting a lot of clicks and preorders. We are surprised because we didn’t believe people would spend that much for a fixed lens camera! We are talking about the reasons… but we didn’t came to a real conclusion. You have an idea?
Couldn’t agree more…enjoy the movie!
70 Responses
Full frame sensor = big sales !
Sony has proven that a camera with a full 135 format sensor doesn’t have to weigh a minimum of 2 lbs (body alone) and requires neither a sherpa nor a forklift to carry around.
I can’t wait to see a version with interchangeable lenses and a built-in EVF.
what has me nervous about an interchangeable lens version of the rx1 is the history of the nex series lenses
juuuuuuuuunk š
if they come out with one, they better jump out 3+ really good lenses to start with. not some junk.
NEX lenses are disappointing, no doubt, BUT the RX1 is full-frame, so NEX lenses probably wouldn’t be compatible. I’d think that we’d be talking about Sony’s Alpha series lenses for their DSLRs.
May be that there is a connexion with Zeiss recent announcement that they are working on a new line of high quality mirrorless lenses ?
If that was the case I’d get one of these FF mirrorless immediately.
Without interchangeable lenses, I’m not really interested. I don’t like the 35mm focal length. I need at least one wide angle and one short tele (28mm and 90mm) or better a three lenses setup (24mm, 45mm, 90mm).
But the design of that fixed lens body looks really good. I could even be interested if it was a 45-50mm lens.
A Sony RX1 + lens hood + simple viewfinder is more than $ 3,500. That’s just ridiculous, so I’m sorry, I don’t understand that hype.
Yes, the camera is strangely very overpriced (usually Sony prices cameras quite aggressively). Either they made the big mistake of putting a super expensive ($1500) lens on it when a $300 one would have been fine for such camera (there are pretty good 50mm f/1.4 lens for that price), or they are just ripping off people with the excuse that the camera is unique.
For half the price I would understand the success. But for that price it really is surprising if many people buy it.
this is a brand new product, $1200 for the Carl Zeiss 35mm F2, $1200 for the body, $400 for the size & weight, I have to say it is a reasonable price, and it will drop to $2300 within a year
But we can speculate that we will have an RX10 soon. With an APS-C sensor and if it has a fixed 23mm f/1.4 lens, it will basically offer the same capabilities as this RX1. Now, how much would such camera cost? I think the Canon G1X is around $800 with a close-to-APS-C sensor and a 4x fast-ish zoom. Roughly that would be the mark.
So $800 for that possible RX10 would be a so much better deal…
I do not see 43 rumors any more. It is time to change the title to m43 I think. My bet is Oly will announce discontinuation of the 43 system at Photokina.
What’s the difference?
The sensor is still a 4/3 sized sensor! š
… you may also see no difference between Canon and Nikon, both use the same sensor size š
At least Japan, there are certain number of people who think “haveing ” a camera is a part of his fashion.
(Ja, I’m correct. most of women don’t act like that. )
RX1 is “fashionable”. I’m cool who use one “prime” focal length to take picture, who have full frame sensor compact camera, who having moderately expensive “SONY” (they cant’ buy very expensive things), who …. I’m cool! they think so.
Such people often whisper, “silver is so bad”, “hood is not cool”. hey don’t you have any interest the image that the Camera takes? I always say it in mind when reading such one.
Why it’s popular? Isn’t it the first FF mirrorless?
The Leica M9!
Ah, yes. Then how about, “The first sub-$6500 FF mirrorless.”?
Add a the price of a lens to that price?
The answer is easy:
If you have a choice to buy
– Zeiss lens for 3k$
or
– Zeiss lens for 3k$ with attached FF sensor (in small package)
What would You buy?
Just the lens, so I can use it when the electronics of this body are archaic.
you mean next tuesday!
š
Zeiss 35mm F2 lens costs $1100, not $3K.
being n.1 in amazon ranking doesnĀ“t mean anything, they can put any new camera on the top of the list just to increase the popularity and make some sales..
Come on Admin. It’s a full frame camera that fits in a coat pocket! Of course it’s a success. The Fuji X100 was a hit and this will have a better sensor and a better lens. For people whose favourite focal length is 35mm it’s a dream come true.
Next comes the interchangeable version. That will put the cat among the pigeons.
WHAT Coat Pocket? Camera may be small, but that Lens is HUGE!
It’s a friggin’ hard on in any pocket!
I don’t believe the hype, either… Being on the top of a Amazon list isn’t the end-all of hype. The GX1 with a Panny H-X025 lens is a better choice. More pocketable and the option to switch lenses. Or you can go with a 20mm lens, even more pocketable.
If most pocketable is your criteria, then you’re clearly not the target customer. If highest IQ in the 35mm focal length is your criteria, then this is the perfect camera for you as no FF DSLR/35mm lens combo will match the IQ from the RX1. And unlike Fuji, Sony can make a camera that will actually focus quickly. The RX100 can match what the GX1 outputs and is more pocketable, so by your logic its a better camera?
The RX1 will absolutely crush any m43 camera in terms of IQ, DR and noise at any ISO. Sony’s new sensors are head and shoulders above everyone else, its why the EM5 is so damn good. The new FF sensor is the EM5’s on steroids.
“Come on Admin. Itās a full frame camera that fits in a coat pocket!”
-That’s why I made that comment. And in my opinion, limiting a full frame sensor to just one lens makes it very niche and I’m betting it won’t be popular because of that. It’ something to talk about, sure, but will it sell like that? Not very Likely.
Sony gimped it’s own product, but it’s not like they haven’t done that before.
People said the same thing about the X100, and by all accounts its been a success. The RX1 is targeting those looking for something a step above X100 IQ and handling – which the RX1 has in spades. Its also a shot at Leica, specifically because the IQ will easily crush the M9 for less than the cost of the 35mm Summicron Lens.
Look at the rear element of the RX1’s lens, Zooms and wider or faster lenses on a interchangeable mirrorless FF are going to be huge unless compromised are made, like what Leica does with the M9. This camera hits a sweet spot as the X100 clearly demonstrated. This will have unmatched IQ, will be better in low light and focus much faster, along with providing the full frame look. I disagree with you, there’s enough of a market to make this a success and spawn other FF RX’s down the line.
Sony hit a sweet spot with the RX1. I just need image samples to confirm what I already think is true about its IQ and DR, then I’m unloading my 28, 35 & 50mm lenses to buy the RX1. I’ve owned a X100, and if it wasn’t absolute rubbish to focus and use I’d still have it. This camera solves all the Fuji issues with a FF sensor to boot. Love it, love it, love it.
My guess is that it’s a test design, something that Sony does in MANY product categories, to see if it will sell or not.
For now, the RX1 has CLEARLY struck a nerve, so maybe Sony is testing the waters for a mirrorless camera system that uses their A-series lenses? That could be one heckuva system.
Also, the fact that it’s mirrorless would open the world of adapting lenses from ANY other system, something that the NEX-series cameras already do quite wellā¦ and something that M4/3 already does, too! It’s one of the greatest strengths of mirrorless camera systems!
@Rep but this isn’t about your opinion. We are not discussing whether or not the camera WILL be popular, we’re discussing WHY the camera already IS popular. Denying what is apparently already a fact is a bit obtuse don’t you think?
Popularity proves nothing of reason in something!
Just think how popular unhealthy eating and life habits are.
Exactly! Full Frame sensor = big sales regardless of other parameters.
I continue to think that Sony has done nothing revolutionary. Designing a P&S is not so difficult regardless of sensor size. The others will follow pretty quickly if they consider that there’s a market for such a product.
Even Panasonic (with Leica) and Olympus can design a similar camera because with the fixed lens they won’t have to comply to the 4/3 standard.
The thing is, a P&S doesn’t make you stay with the system, because there’s no system. People can sell and buy cameras from another manufacturer pretty quickly. If Canon or Nikon step in, Sony will quickly become a follower not a leader.
Its a Zeiss lens with a leaf shutter designed specifically to work with the sensor, and a sensor that’s tweaked to maximize resolution with the specially designed Zeiss lens.
If it were so easy, then how come there are exactly 2 (Leica M and RX1) mirrorless FF still cameras on the market right now? maybe its not so easy after all genius.
Indeed. It’s not easy, and that’s probably why we still don’t have a reasonable one. š
Preorders of RX1 are results of the hype created on the web. All sites, “rumor” and other are full of praise over a camera they just seen….
Free sales promotion by “unbiased” sites that all happen to have links to pre-order just below the superlatives.
RX1 is a very interesting camera, amazingly small (can you hold the camera?) It will be intersting to see how lens-sensor deals with corner IQ, sometimes a problem on APS-C….
To me, a camera with fixed prime lens is too limited. My first camera 1961 was a Minolta with fixed prime lens. Very good IQ but that was 50 years ago. Now I demand more from a modern camera.
For some, who have one or more camera systems already, a RX1 can be a complement. – Provided you are strong enough wallet-wise.
I have a D800 system and a RX100 – do I need something in between? Maybe. Then a NEX6 with the new sensor or a Fuji EX1 are really a lot more competent than the RX1 in all aspects – except concerning sensor area.
Exactly…
This camera is a “Splurge” Item, nothing else… Seriously, it’s laughable. For 3 grand, there are so many better options and combinations. This is another “Lets make it and throw it out there, see if they bite” attempt from Sony.
Look, I won’t be buying one, but I can still see why many would. ARE in fact. It’s a full frame camera the size of a GX1. We used to think the GX1 was small, remember? If you can’t see why it’s a remarkable milestone it’s time for an eye test.
> Preorders of RX1 are results of the hype created on the web. All sites, ārumorā and other are full of praise over a camera they just seenā¦
I don’t think most of those sites etc. have even seen nothing but excrements of marketing!
And even if they’ve seen it critical journalism is as dead as good will in global politics with media always hyping any new products regardless if there’s actually anything new or anything that remarkable in it.
And critical thinking is something which is taught to people even less because no politicians of old powerful parties and rich institutions/people behind them want people actually starting to think for themselves.
If enough fashion sites started telling that human can fly if he just properly believes to it we would surely have more than few people jumping from roofs.
Just like you said about your own experience of film era’s simple to carry and use cameras there’s plenty of flexible options for such use.
Todays digital compacts have exceeded performance of 35mm film and can offer also zoom optics in pocketable size.
Again if real pocketability isn’t important (clearly the case for RX-1 worshippers) there’s nothing preventing using any system camera with only one lens and mirrorless systems offer many compact bodies with also that size zooms starting to appear.
This obsession of people keeping some entirely different tech era’s limited products as so superior reminds lot about cravings of old people with Alzheimer’s disease.
> the other rumor websites are surprised about the new Sony RX1 popularity which at least according to Amazon ranking is getting a lot of clicks and preorders.
@Admin. It makes no sense to wonder about high Amazon rankings of newly released products. They generally sell at MSRP what includes retailer’s margin – the highest margin, before rebates kick in, or manufs begin to lower the price. And the Amazon’s profit margin is one of the major metrics used by the Amazon when creating the rankings. IOW, it is Amazon’s plug to sell more of the products they earn more money from.
Most people who bitch and vote “no” on the buying polls are broke people like me. There are tons of people who are going to buy the RX1 who aren’t on rumor sites and Sony knows it. The future versions of the RX100 and RX1 (and most likely RX10) will be better, have more features we want, and probably will be a bit cheaper. Plenty of affordable stuff like the Nex-F3 or a37 to play with till that happens. The a37 in particular is a really great bargain considering its excellent image quality.
I like the RX1 for the size, sensor and lens. Sadly the price puts it out of my reach, but if I had the extra $$$ I’d buy one for an ideal walk around.
RX1= POKET CINEMA
and yes dont make it less expensive..
if anybody has not the money he must
go and work till he has it.
the old sensles bla bla..do not read such
rumorsides go real…
lok only all 6 months and dont by all…
then the revollution runs
but just now million i-diots cant wait a i-phone5..
99,978% uncreative no ideas only slaves
A lot of people are just not interested in switching lenses while on the go (myself included). Until recently the camera companies have completedly ignored this market thinking everybody wants interchangeable lenses. First came the sigmas, x100 and small sensor/fast lens compacts. Now Sony has joined with the RX100 and RX1.
I am surprised it took them so long. There will be a lot of pent up demand for this.
> A lot of people are just not interested in switching lenses while on the go
So hence you want to trade switching lenses to need of switching between whole cameras because of lens being not only non interchangeable but also of fixed focal length…
If it’s some old fixed lens compact film camera like simple use and carrying you’re after even compacts have exceeded performance of 35mm film and can offer reasonable zooms in lot more pocketable size.
Again if real pocketability isn’t important there’s nothing preventing keeping one lens all the time in interchangeable lens camera.
No wonder if global economical and political elite have easy time manipulating people.
Regarding the RX1, after the destruction of the middle class the only people with any significant disposable income are rich dbags. They’ve seen their incomes explode while everyone else has seen a decline. They could care less what the price of gas is.
High end cameras have always been either a luxury or the cost of doing business for a working photographer. Electronics in general are much more affordable for the middle class than, say, in the 70s. Street price for a Canon A-1 with normal lens was the equivalent of about $1800. I don’t think it was any easier to afford a “top end” camera than it is now. The highly desired medium format cameras were way out of range of “normal” families. As was a second TV, a second car, etc.
There was much more of a democratization of equipment back then. Of course there was pro gear that was far more expensive. But it was not cost prohibitive to shoot medium format. I had a Minolta Autocord and a Holga. Full frame and fast aperture primes were the norm. You could get a decent 35mm SLR and 50mm 1.8 for $99. It’s revisionist history to suggest otherwise. And it’s not like the basic models were always so far behind. But now full frame is restricted to the wealthy. And fast aperture primes cost an arm and a leg.
My Canon AT-1 was pretty much state a typical SLR of the time. It cost me $250, which is about $750 in today’s dollars. The F-1 was way out of my league. I’d argue there is more democratization now. You can get a Olympus E-PL1 for $199. It’s not the latest or greatest, but pretty workable and that’s about $70 in (178 dollars. I would have loved it then! Sure, fast primes are expensive, but the E-PL1 can mount old ones. š My parents just had Kodak 126 cameras. The cell phone cameras of today are a lot better than those! I don’t know. Just seems easier to me to afford a good workable camera nowadays. Just as with most electronics.
It’s an odd thing about the world of photography- so many elitist “enthusiasts” litter these forms who actually prefer that their gear be grossly overpriced and out of the reach of common people. I can only imagine they feel that exclusivity gives them a leg up when it comes to taking pictures of their cat and wife. Look at all the hacks on here who were thrilled the upcoming 17mm will be priced similar to the 12mm and not the 45mm.
The RX1 is a full-frame point-and-shoot, what’s not to love about that ?
The reason i came to m43 in the first place and bought my GF1 is because it was the closest digital equivalent to my Nikon “Pikaichi” L35AF which is the camera I had the most fun using (I’m not a professional photographer, just an enthusiastic storyboarder who likes to snap around).
I mean I had fun playing around with lenses, the GF1 thought me A LOT about photography, but when I still dreamed of a sturdy 35mm lens point-and-shoot.
But I know this is a personal opinion, and there is no way I’m buying the RX1 at that price, yet I’m still excited that it exists and might bring more models in the same vein from other manufacturers. Or I’ll just buy it used in a year, after all, I still shoot with my GF1 and I freaking love the little thing.
Sorry for the rant š
The RX1 is popular because a Leica 35/2 Summicron lens by itself costs more and the M9 (and likely the M10 unless Leica went with a Sony sensor) can”t hold a candle to Sony’s new sensors. The IQ from this camera will likely be superior to any other FF camera on the market right now. Look at the exploded view of the RX1 and the massive rear element – there’s a lot of glass. Its going to be something special.
I’m selling all my lenses between 28 and 50mm and my 5d2 to get the RX1. I liked the X100, but its just too slow in focusing and operation, this takes the X100 to another level with the FF sensor. Can’t wait!
> Look at the exploded view of the RX1 and the massive rear element ā thereās a lot of glass.
So they copied hype from Fuji X-Pro 1.
There’s really nothing impressive in performances of X-Pro 1’s lenses.
High center performance is default in any decent optics of today!
Need for heavy stopping down to lift edges nearer center is nothing out of average, in fact that starts to be rarer in latest APS-C/35mm DSLR lenses.
Also oblique angle light problem seems to be clearly there limiting edge sharpness in shortest focal lengths. (though not as bad as in NEX-7)
Never ever trust marketing.
Sure Sony can optimize micro lenses just for this particular fixed lens but still you need healthy skepticism.
If you have fond memories of these cameras:
Olympus XA
Rollei 35T
Minox 35 series
Contax T series
then you might be intrigued by the RX-1. This is as close as anyone has come to these classics. I’m not biting at the current price, but if Olympus made an “XD” camera (and I’m not talking about the memory card!)with a 4/3 sensor, I think some people might be interested.
+1! I loved my rollei 35 and oly xa. The rx1 seems like the closest to that on the current camera landscape.
I have my grandfather’s Rollei 35 on my fireplace mantle. I think it has a slow Tessar. Was there a fast lens version? It was delightful, but had strange handling.
I think Amazon tweaks their rankings filter so that it shows what they want it to show.
My bet is Sony is giving everybody a great great margin on this one!
Do you really think a company with a market capitalization of $115 billion is going to take the time and effort to manipulate the ranking of the RX1?
Why the Black Magic Cine Camera??? It doesn’t use a 43 sensor and it Uses Canon EF lenses. Meh!!
They have announces a passive M43 mount version of the camera which is the version tested by Bloom.
did you actually read or listen about/to the reason havin a m43 mount on this camera?
No matter what the FF alone is synonym with sales….+the mirorrless+Sony Brand+the hype about RX100 (the predecessor of RX1 line and dub as the best camera design by Sony so far)+Zeiss Lens (albeit it’s fixed one)+people a bit bored with Canon & Nikon offering….oh and did I mention it’s among the group of Sony finally acknowledge the standard hot shoe camera?….:-D
I think most people that enthusiast with Digital Photography somehow get interested with FF sensor because it’s the size that most people get used to. For those who never shoot in 35mm film, it’s kind of holy grail of sensor size. So every new product on FF format will always make people excited. The only drawback for most of Us is either the price or the size. Now Sony comes with interesting package size, so people that mind with the size but not the price will pre order it.
Holy grail in sensor size?
LOL
First of all, most people by now got used to digital formats, and more and more people will be around that never ever touched a film camera at all. The 135 format (35mm) is arbitrary, and based on what just happened to be a popular format for motion pictures some 80+ years ago. There is absolutely no valid technical reason to prefer this format over any other format.
Second, there is no such ‘holy grail’, and all the ‘blahblah’ by fullframe fanatics is absolutely no different from all the blahblah by large-format people when 35mm was becoming popular, silly and ignorant.
Those medium sizes do make a difference, and finding the medium size best suited for your application is the holy grail. Bigger sometimes is better, sometimes its worse, and there is no one size that fits all.
IMO Sigma DP2 Merrill still blows it away (IQ at low iso)… š .. for $1K
Photography is a common hobby. Go to any tourist location and count the 5Ds hanging around old peoples necks, wearing gray sweaters and sandals. While the misses will say “No!” to a Leica M in most cases, the RX1 isnĀ“t that much for a retired lawyer, doctor and such. And itĀ“s less straining on the neck too š
And IĀ“m pretty sure many pro-graphers will rather pack the RX1 for low-profile shooting than a second (or third) D800 body.
Reasons?
Simply because (assuming Sony pulls this one right) there is nothing in this form factor and size that can touch it in terms of IQ. If I had the money in my disposition I would not hesitate… most chances I will consider it very favorably when the price comes down a bit.
The camera I had the most fun with was the Contax T2 – a compact 35mm film with a stellar lens (Zeiss) that smoked my Nikon gear. The Nikon gear (F3 and F90x and a stable of lenses) is long gone but I still have the Contax.
The thing is the Contax cost $600 at the time…
nice but soft
Qw
Ofcourse the rx1 is extremely in demand. This was the camera every photographer was waiting for. It is a modern Konica Hexar
RX1 sales? Because it looks like a *solid* piece of kit. The camera you can buy once now and use for at least 5 years. That you can take and throw to a photographic job and get it, never worrying for a second if its canvas of light or lens will let you down.
Remember how much a fast lens can cost, and they are the ones and the only ones doing this in the world right now.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera is the BIGGEST HOAX since the Digital Bolex.
These guys had already more “shipping dates” announced than most folks have underwear. B&H Photo Video used to change the shipping date every few weeks since June, now they no longer even bother.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/855879-REG/Blackmagic_Design_BMD_CINECAM26KEF_Cinema_Camera.html
Order one — who knows when you gonna get one. Ever?
Blackmagic has some cheap products compared to what others are selling similar products for (like AJA), but frankly, this camera is not going to be their strength. I don’t think it is ever going to happen for real.
I’ll wait for the Digital Bolex and the new SLR Magic lenses — much higher likelihood of getting those for real. BCC is just vaporware, and old waporware at that.